Paris attacks

[Soonerjeepman]

couple of things...

#1 AGAIN, the "faith of peace" really shows well. chirp chirp from any Islam folks denouncing this? Don't see any "Christians" murdering folks because they make fun of Jesus...

#2 Ya think the "tolerant" attitude in Europe towards the Islamic religion will change?

#3 Bet the police start carrying weapons....crap,3 showed up on bikes but took off when they realized these terrorists were armed.

[jkjsooner]

I'm not sure Europe is so tolerant. There are a lot of internal conflicts between the groups in both France and Germany. We're lucky enough to have most of our migrants coming from latin America. They happen to have them coming from north Africa and Turkey.

My emotional side wants to use an alternative form of the Bush Doctrine against these groups. Either you take an active role to help fix the problem or you will be considered part of the problem. The reasoning side realizes that that attitude could be just as bad or worse than what you are trying to prevent. (I mean, what exactly could you do against the groups that wouldn't be considered a crime against humanity.)

Glad I don't have to make the decisions. I might just make a really bad one.

[REDREX]

Is this also the 'B' team?

[The Remnant]

Or workplace violence?

[TAFBSooner]

This was just the Islamists' way of saying that "Muhommad is never funny." :-(

[FaninAma]

Multiculturalism is wonderful thing....don't ya' think?

[jkjsooner]

Note that today is a day of mourning in France. When they have something happen in Palestine they have a day of rage.

Simply different mindsets.

[SoonerProphet]

Multiculturalism is wonderful thing....don't ya' think?

Yeah, those radical Muslims hate that sh!t.

[FaninAma]

Yeah, those radical Muslims hate that sh!t.

I don't get the use of violence as one of their tools to address their grievances toward the political and social systems of their adopted countries. If I didn't like what was going on in the country in which I lived and felt there was no hope for change I would seriously examine the option of immigrating to another country with a political and social system more intune with by beliefs.

[SoonerProphet]

They don't give a **** about a hijab, hadiths, or culture. Hell, most of the French Muslim is like our Muslim population, willing to live in peace with your neighbors and practice your faith as you please. What AQ types want is the reaction to their violence. If they can get Euros to act just as beastly as they do, then maybe they can get past the indifference of many in the Islamic communities.

[dwarthog]

I'm guessing this takes some of the allure off taking that no longer useful vehicle over to "that" side of Paris for a fire and an insurance claim.

[Soonerjeepman]

FWIW,
On Hannity (yeah not a huge fan, but he does have guests on there) a practicing Islam Dr (not medical) said yesterday on radio, as I was driving home, that TRUE Quran believers support the idea that if you do not practice Islam you should be killed.

So, my take is, kind of like Christians and the bible....we really don't do the eye for an eye type thing...so maybe these "moderate" Islam folks the ones that live in other countries and "tolerate" our religions handle the Quran like we handle the Bible...who knows.

I do believe that there is a majority of Islamic believers that feel if you are not practicing Islam you should die.

[dwarthog]

There certainly seems to be a preponderance of evidence pointing to Islam as being highly intolerant to other religions and practices.

If "TRUE" Quran believers support the idea of killing non-believers, then there is a problem here which would best be solved by hanging with your own kind of folks.

If they think they are going to move in and then we'll roll over, well I'm betting that won't play out too well.

[Turd_Ferguson]

They don't give a **** about a hijab, hadiths, or culture. Hell, most of the French Muslim is like our Muslim population, willing to live in peace with your neighbors and practice your faith as you please. What AQ types want is the reaction to their violence. If they can get Euros to act just as beastly as they do, then maybe they can get past the indifference of many in the Islamic communities.

Sorry, but you're making no ****ing sense.

[SoonerProphet]

Sorry, but you're making no ****ing sense.

Really? Launching an attack to further inflame the nationalists sentiments and to get a reaction is a hard concept to wrap your brain around.

[Soonerjeepman]

Islamic extremists are stepping up the creation of "no-go" areas in European cities that are off-limits to non-Muslims.

Many of the "no-go" zones function as microstates governed by Islamic Sharia law. Host-country authorities effectively have lost control in these areas and in many instances are unable to provide even basic public aid such as police, fire fighting and ambulance services.

The "no-go" areas are the by-product of decades of multicultural policies that have encouraged Muslim immigrants to create parallel societies and remain segregated rather than become integrated into their European host nations.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2367/european-muslim-no-go-zones


Looks like Europe is a little more tolerant than some think. At least the muslims are trying to create that...

England
France
Germany
Netherlands
Italy
Belgium
Sweden

[jkjsooner]

Really? Launching an attack to further inflame the nationalists sentiments and to get a reaction is a hard concept to wrap your brain around.

I think you're thinking too much. These guys didn't have such wide ranging goals. They were mad about the cartoons, believe it is their job to take revenge on those responsible, and believe that Allah will reward them for doing so.

If you think they had some grand plan to incite nationalistic sentiments and cause polarization between Muslims and non-Muslims then I think you are giving them way too much credit.

[SoonerProphet]

I think you're thinking too much. These guys didn't have such wide ranging goals. They were mad about the cartoons, believe it is their job to take revenge on those responsible, and believe that Allah will reward them for doing so.

If you think they had some grand plan to incite nationalistic sentiments and cause polarization between Muslims and non-Muslims then I think you are giving them way too much credit.

Don't know man, sharpening the contradictions just isn't relegated to Bolsheviks, pretty standard revolution 101. Them frogs love their rights of man too.

[REDREX]

When they find the two brothers I am going to bet that they will not give up----I just hope no one else gets hurt

[rock on sooner]

When they find the two brothers I am going to bet that they will not give up----I just hope no one else gets hurt

"except the two brothers....

[TheHumanAlphabet]

If you are a true muslim, you either expect everyone to believe in islam or die... Those that aren't saying that are either being quiet to get along until the time comes or are not believing in full faith. I tend to beleive that if you believe in the Quran, then you will not tolerate other religions and people. So we will be forced to make decisions in this country eventually... I have been to the ME and meet many fine people, but when it come to religion, I feel that I am tolerated because I have something of value they want. If that were not the case, I would not be given the time of day...

[REDREX]

"except the two brothers....---To Hell with them

[jkjsooner]

This situation in Paris shows exactly why the police need to be heavily armed - or at least have the ability to bring adequate arms into the area quickly.

There was no reason these guys should have escaped. The only reason was that the police who did respond initially were not armed well enough to take on terrorists with AK-47's and bullet proof vests. Because of this we've had several more deaths than we would otherwise have.

Say what you want about the militarization of police but sometimes it's necessary. This is one of those cases.

Note: I think there was bad information earlier about the police not being armed. The one who was killed on the sidewalk did have a weapon. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to have anything other than a pistol but this still demonstrates that police in major metropolitan areas do have a need to bring heavier weapons on scene quickly.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/policeman-killed-in-paris-attack-emerging-as-a-hero-1420758068

[FaninAma]

FWIW,
On Hannity (yeah not a huge fan, but he does have guests on there) a practicing Islam Dr (not medical) said yesterday on radio, as I was driving home, that TRUE Quran believers support the idea that if you do not practice Islam you should be killed.

So, my take is, kind of like Christians and the bible....we really don't do the eye for an eye type thing...so maybe these "moderate" Islam folks the ones that live in other countries and "tolerate" our religions handle the Quran like we handle the Bible...who knows.

I do believe that there is a majority of Islamic believers that feel if you are not practicing Islam you should die.

I have read some articles that discuss the assertion that Islam will be fine once the religion goes through its version of the Christain Reformation that came about from the efforts of Martin Luther, John Calvin and others. But I have also read an article that states that we are seeing the Islamic Reformation. The author of that article based his opinion on the fact that the Christian Reformation was made possible thanks to the printing press and the distribution of the New Testament to the masses. Followers of Chrisitianity could then read the Scripture and decide what Jesus and his followers really meant for themselves without getting interpretations through Church and political leaders. Currently the Koran, thanks to mass print, electronic and internet sources is more widely distributed than ever before. The number of followers of Islam is exploding and they are now interpreting what Mohammed was trying to tell them and it seems the message they are getting is not a "turn the other cheek" type of message.

That is a very scarey thought.

[FaninAma]

If you are a true muslim, you either expect everyone to believe in islam or die... Those that aren't saying that are either being quiet to get along until the time comes or are not believing in full faith. I tend to beleive that if you believe in the Quran, then you will not tolerate other religions and people. So we will be forced to make decisions in this country eventually... I have been to the ME and meet many fine people, but when it come to religion, I feel that I am tolerated because I have something of value they want. If that were not the case, I would not be given the time of day...
I think Islam's proactive "methods" of spreading the Prophet's message attracts a lot of the people who belong to that religion as opposed to Christianity's message of pacifism and non-violence. Also, Islam serves as a perfect outlet for the large mass of people who feel disenfranchised or left behind by the rapidly accelerating technological and cultural advancements this world has seen in the last 75 years since WWII.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Apparently the "Leftist" NYT edited out a reporters story that stated the terrorists wanted the lady that let them into Hebdo to convert to Islam and cover her face...Radio France has the english translation and it is clear that they were prosletizing... Love the NYT to censor news... Why no one believes the LSM anymore.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

See below for quotations from the koran! Just go online, select an English copy of the koran, do a search on the word "unbeliever" to verify this.
==============FROM THE KORAN=========
The Cow
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[2.254] O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers-- they are the unjust.

The Family of Imran
[3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

The Women
[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

The Immunity
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

The Examined One
[60.13] O you who believe! do not make friends with a people with whom Allah is wroth; indeed they despair of the hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in tombs.

Nuh
[71.26] And Nuh said: My Lord! leave not upon the land any dweller from among the unbelievers:

[TAFBSooner]

I think you're thinking too much. These guys didn't have such wide ranging goals. They were mad about the cartoons, believe it is their job to take revenge on those responsible, and believe that Allah will reward them for doing so.

If you think they had some grand plan to incite nationalistic sentiments and cause polarization between Muslims and non-Muslims then I think you are giving them way too much credit.

The attacks were well-planned and supported; that at least leaves open the possibility its motivation was likewise sophisticated:

http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-diary/paris-attack-underscores-deeper-malaise#axzz3O9XqOvot

BTW, Stratfor <> a liberal site.

[Soonerjeepman]

I have read some articles that discuss the assertion that Islam will be fine once the religion goes through its version of the Christain Reformation that came about from the efforts of Martin Luther, John Calvin and others. But I have also read an article that states that we are seeing the Islamic Reformation. The author of that article based his opinion on the fact that the Christian Reformation was made possible thanks to the printing press and the distribution of the New Testament to the masses. Followers of Chrisitianity could then read the Scripture and decide what Jesus and his followers really meant for themselves without getting interpretations through Church and political leaders. Currently the Koran, thanks to mass print, electronic and internet sources is more widely distributed than ever before. The number of followers of Islam is exploding and they are now interpreting what Mohammed was trying to tell them and it seems the message they are getting is not a "turn the other cheek" type of message.

That is a very scarey thought.

yes, very scary

[SicEmBaylor]

My head tells me this was a terrorist incidents like this are isolated and that the overwhelming majority of the 1.5 billion (I think that's right) Muslims on Earth are perfectly peaceful and decent people.

My heart tells me that there comes a time when you should start stoking the ovens.

[8timechamps]

I have read some articles that discuss the assertion that Islam will be fine once the religion goes through its version of the Christain Reformation that came about from the efforts of Martin Luther, John Calvin and others. But I have also read an article that states that we are seeing the Islamic Reformation. The author of that article based his opinion on the fact that the Christian Reformation was made possible thanks to the printing press and the distribution of the New Testament to the masses. Followers of Chrisitianity could then read the Scripture and decide what Jesus and his followers really meant for themselves without getting interpretations through Church and political leaders. Currently the Koran, thanks to mass print, electronic and internet sources is more widely distributed than ever before. The number of followers of Islam is exploding and they are now interpreting what Mohammed was trying to tell them and it seems the message they are getting is not a "turn the other cheek" type of message.

That is a very scarey thought.

Interesting take on the situation.

What strikes me as obvious in this comparison is that it's hard to take the bible to mean "kill all nonbelievers" (although, I'm sure if ones mind was twisted enough, one could find a way to see that interpretation). While I haven't read the complete Koran (I've actually tried to read it, to gain an understanding), it isn't an instruction manual on how to kill, so it doesn't seem that it would present itself as a motivating factor. I think the majority of the killings originate from a region that is so far removed from the civilized world, that they interpret things the way the see fit.

After spending time in that part of the world, and following the occurrences since, I've come to the conclusion that there are a number of folks there that simply refuse to advance and want to be fanatical followers of Islam. There's just no other way to explain it.

What's crazy, when you step back, is how rich and well off the entire region could have been. Had the governments of the majority of the middle eastern countries put their people first, it could be one of the most lavish parts of the world. Instead, there's been a steady stream of dictators and ruling families that made themselves the priority. Look at Dubai, that's a place I would like to visit, but I never will. That's not to say they don't have their share of issues, but for the most part they are a peaceful country with visions of being an updated hub for business and tourism in the region.

Just as we, normal folks, can't understand the mind of a psychopath, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to understand the minds of radical Islamist.

[rock on sooner]

"except the two brothers....

I rest my case.....

[Eielson]

I'm not concerned right now about getting shot by a radical Muslim. I am, however, concerned what this world will look like in 30-40 years if Muslims continue to reproduce at the rates they currently are. It will probably be too late to act by that point.

[SoonerorLater]

Unfortunately for France and Europe in general, I don't see any new age Charles Martel's on the horizon.