Advice For Sic 'Em's Baylor Thread

[Eielson]

Let's talk about all the things Baylor is doing wrong, and how they can fix it. They're falling way behind TCU, and they've got some MAJOR changes to make to get things where they need to be.

[Eielson]

They need to go after Tyrel Jacobs now that he's decommitted from us. I don't know why they haven't yet.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Well with their defensive deficiencies, they should definitely start thinking about restructuring their staff. They are entirely too complacent in the postseason to capitalize on their tissue-soft scheduling.

[Eielson]

They need to hire a younger coach. Art is too old to make it through the whole season. That's why they can't finish.

[SicEmBaylor]

Changes do need to be made, yes. That's absolutely true.

[Eielson]

Changes do need to be made, yes. That's absolutely true.

Woah...you're buzzkilling this. I thought I had at least a week.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Shouldn't you be in Dallas?

[SicEmBaylor]

Shouldn't you be in Dallas?

Good old Muskogee. I almost bought a ticket off a friend of mine at the last minute, but I've been unbelievably sick the last four days from a head cold I caught from my sister at Christmas. So I still wouldn't have ended up making it.

[SoCalBigRed]

That was truly a pathetic letdown... and especially for the conference. At least, The Big XII could claim some bragging rights in the National picture, from our supposed superior brethren down south, who have supposedly forever passed us...

For all the talk of "Chokelahoma"... BU has a flair for taking a leak, all over their season, nobody to blame, but themselves...

[soonergirlNeugene]

Sorry to hear that. Hope you recover soon.

[Eielson]

That was truly a pathetic letdown... and especially for the conference. At least, The Big XII could claim some bragging rights in the National picture, from our supposed superior brethren down south, who have supposedly forever passed us...

For all the talk of "Chokelahoma"... BU has a flair for taking a leak, all over their season, nobody to blame, but themselves...

Not really. TCU gave our conference respectability by itself. I think everybody knows Baylor was 3 scores better than MSU, but just crapped the bed again.

[SicEmBaylor]

That was truly a pathetic letdown... and especially for the conference. At least, The Big XII could claim some bragging rights in the National picture, from our supposed superior brethren down south, who have supposedly forever passed us...

For all the talk of "Chokelahoma"... BU has a flair for taking a leak, all over their season, nobody to blame, but themselves...

It absolutely was a chokejob. Worse than the UCF game, imo. FTR: I've never said the word "Chokelahoma." Also completely justifies, with hindsight, putting TCU ahead of us; although, I maintain that based on the information available at the time it was still the wrong decision but that's neither here nor there at this point.

What it means is that the Big XII may have to be undefeated in order to get a playoff spot in the short term future.

[Eielson]

It absolutely was a chokejob. Worse than the UCF game, imo. FTR: I've never said the word "Chokelahoma." Also completely justifies, with hindsight, putting TCU ahead of us; although, I maintain that based on the information available at the time it was still the wrong decision but that's neither here nor there at this point.

What it means is that the Big XII may have to be undefeated in order to get a playoff spot in the short term future.

I think TCU beating a top 10 team from the SEC spoke much louder than a 1 point loss to a top 10 team.

This game felt like Baylor vs TCU in reverse. The worse team won.

[SicEmBaylor]

I think TCU beating a top 10 team from the SEC spoke much louder than a 1 point loss to a top 10 team.

This game felt like Baylor vs TCU in reverse. The worse team won.

I agree but, again, hindsight.

[cherokeebrewer]

I've been unbelievably sick the last four days from a head cold I caught from my sister

Sounds like grounds for termination, fire your sister...

[soonergirlNeugene]

I think TCU beating a top 10 team from the SEC spoke much louder than a 1 point loss to a top 10 team.

This game felt like Baylor vs TCU in reverse. The worse team won.

Truth. Thats exactly the feeling I've been trying to shake.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think TCU beating a top 10 team from the SEC spoke much louder than a 1 point loss to a top 10 team.

This game felt like Baylor vs TCU in reverse. The worse team won.

I would agree if Ole Miss hadn't lost 3 of it's last 5 regular season games including a 30-0 beating from Arkansas. Baylor was up against a much better team and certainly should have won. But maybe from a national perception the TCU win was much more impressive, but Ole Miss certainly should not have been so highly ranked the way they faded.

[SicEmBaylor]

Sounds like grounds for termination, fire your sister...

The only reason I'd ever hire my sister to work for me is to have the satisfaction of firing her.

[soonergirlNeugene]

I think TCU beating a top 10 team from the SEC spoke much louder than a 1 point loss to a top 10 team.

This game felt like Baylor vs TCU in reverse. The worse team won.

Saw this over on ESPN and thought I'd add it here to back up your take on this one.


Stat of the game: According to ESPN Stats & Information, only one other FBS team has come back from a 20-point fourth-quarter deficit this season: Baylor, when it rallied to knock off TCU 61-58 on Oct. 11.

[Eielson]

I would agree if Ole Miss hadn't lost 3 of it's last 5 regular season games including a 30-0 beating from Arkansas. Baylor was up against a much better team and certainly should have won. But maybe from a national perception the TCU win was much more impressive, but Ole Miss certainly should not have been so highly ranked the way they faded.

I realize they lost a couple of games by 3 points, but they ended the season by beating the #4 team in the country, so it's not like they crawled to the end of the season.

[BoulderSooner79]

I realize they lost a couple of games by 3 points, but they ended the season by beating the #4 team in the country, so it's not like they crawled to the end of the season.

Yes, they beat their in state rival which can happen. A team that just got smoked by GT, BTW. But there is no excuse for a 30-0 loss to unranked Arkansas. Hats off to TCU for not playing down to their level, but Ole looked as hapless and unprepared in their bowl as we did. MSU only lost to 2 teams that are in the playoffs and they really should have beaten the Ducks. Had Baylor hung on, I would have called it a more impressive win than TCU's. But in a bowl situation, a loss is a loss and there is no such thing as a good loss.

[Eielson]

Yes, they beat their in state rival which can happen. A team that just got smoked by GT, BTW. But there is no excuse for a 30-0 loss to unranked Arkansas. Hats off to TCU for not playing down to their level, but Ole looked as hapless and unprepared in their bowl as we did. MSU only lost to 2 teams that are in the playoffs and they really should have beaten the Ducks. Had Baylor hung on, I would have called it a more impressive win than TCU's. But in a bowl situation, a loss is a loss and there is no such thing as a good loss.

You're dramatically downplaying every example of success Ole Miss had, and exaggerating any failures. That's an obnoxious tactic.

No, they shouldn't have been beaten so badly by Arkansas, but that same Arkansas team has been playing really good football, and would whip just about everybody the Big 10 has to offer. There's not a team in the country that could beat them by much more than 7 points (Bama beat them by 1).

And you do realize that MSU lost to Oregon by 19, right? I don't even think you believe half the stuff you just said.

[BoulderSooner79]

Obnoxious tactic? You act like this is a debate - go fly a kite or something.

[Eielson]

Obnoxious tactic? You act like this is a debate - go fly a kite or something.

I was implying that you're debating; reality be damned.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Ole Miss is horsesh*t.

If Baylor:

(a) had a coach who understood you run out the clock with a three TD lead,
(b) was able to look at all the failed defenses Phil Bennett has coached over his career,

the Bears would have won going away.

This game was won on the ability and experience of Michigan State's coaching staff. They never panicked, and neither did their team. They took advantage of Baylor's coaching staff thinking it was a 45 minutes game followed by a 15 minute Bryce Petty passing clinic.

[graphster]

LOL. They lost because in the fourth quarter they gave up an onside kick, missed a 46 yard FG, and had another FG blocked (after running almost 4 minutes off the clock, which would have put them up by 9 with a minute to go), not because they didn't run the ball enough. They had 2 incomplete passes the entire fourth quarter until the final possession.

Defense was a liability though.

[Tear Down This Wall]

LOL. They lost because in the fourth quarter they gave up an onside kick, missed a 46 yard FG, and had another FG blocked (after running almost 4 minutes off the clock, which would have put them up by 9 with a minute to go), not because they didn't run the ball enough. They had 2 incomplete passes the entire fourth quarter until the final possession.

Defense was a liability though.

LOL this, Batman:

Before Michigan State took the lead, Baylor had run 15 plays in the fourth quarter - 10 passes, 5 runs.

Start of quarter: Baylor 41, Michigan State 21
End of quarter, game: Michigan State 42, Baylor 41

[graphster]

A bunch of those passes were short WR screens. They completed 8 of those 10 passes and moved the ball down the field. They had zero sacks and no holding penalties. Completed passes are equivalent to running the ball, in terms of the clock, so its unclear how running the ball more would have helped them bleed more time. They had an offensive facemask penalty on their final drive before MSU scored, or they would have had first and goal inside the 5.

Defense crumbled under the pressure, but offensive play selection is not why they lost. They lost the lead because they gave away a free possession (onside kick), and because they missed two field goals that should have been made, combined with the fact that they couldn't stop MSU. Defense and special teams cost them the game, not an inability or unwillingness to run the ball.

[BoulderSooner79]

...
Defense crumbled under the pressure, but offensive play selection is not why they lost. They lost the lead because they gave away a free possession (onside kick), and because they missed two field goals that should have been made, combined with the fact that they couldn't stop MSU. Defense and special teams cost them the game, not an inability or unwillingness to run the ball.

Agreed - they took what the defense gave them and Petty was on point. The MSU QB, Cook, was actually off from his usual game and missed several open receivers on the last drive. But it didn't matter because BU left someone open on every play. I would not have tried that last FG unless it was inside 40 yards - I would have tried to punt them deep. That kicker had been roughed on an XP and already missed a 46 yarder - just felt it might be in his head. I think the kick was low, but I didn't see a good view of it.

[Texas Golfer]

Defense crumbled under the pressure, but offensive play selection is not why they lost. They lost the lead because they gave away a free possession (onside kick), and because they missed two field goals that should have been made, combined with the fact that they couldn't stop MSU. Defense and special teams cost them the game, not an inability or unwillingness to run the ball.

It was a lack of ability to run the ball which cost the game. The Bears had -20 yards rushing. Their RBs had 16 yards on 15 carries.

[BoulderSooner79]

It was a lack of ability to run the ball which cost the game. The Bears had -20 yards rushing. Their RBs had 16 yards on 15 carries.

I guess the 550 yards passing didn't count? The offense took what the defense gave them and moved the sticks when needed. 4th qtr defense and special teams and dumb penalties killed them.

[Texas Golfer]

I guess the 550 yards passing didn't count? The offense took what the defense gave them and moved the sticks when needed. 4th qtr defense and special teams and dumb penalties killed them.

Baylor's offense was doing great until they needed to bleed the clock. I don't disagree that defense and dumb penalties didn't hurt. But the Bears became one dimensional when they needed a ground game in the 4th quarter. It's hard to win any game with -20 yards rushing.

[graphster]

They bled 4 minutes off the clock and moved the ball into field goal range on their final meaningful drive.

[BoulderSooner79]

They bled 4 minutes off the clock and moved the ball into field goal range on their final meaningful drive.

But they used the pass to do it - doesn't count.

[SicEmBaylor]

Someone hold me.

[SicEmBaylor]

Let me add one more thing in reference to the thread itself: When I criticize OU it isn't because I don't like OU -- it's because I love OU and want OU to succeed. So the big difference between this thread and the one I started earlier in the season regarding OU is that it's used to mock and attack Baylor. I've never done that with OU. As I said, I want nothing but success for the University of Oklahoma even if I must root against them ONCE every season. That is all.

[freshchris05]

The clock runs after the ball is set, until under 2 minutes. Running it would burn a few more seconds off but honestly with the new rules it's all about helping the passing game. The screens, even the short 7 yard cushion passes emulate a running game. Baylor's offense played to its strength they just absolutely lost with dumb plays. Never been there.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Someone hold me.

Get your passport, then come on over and we'll cuddle ;)

[badger]

Now that we've all had a day to laugh at Baylor, here's a serious question:

Does the positives of hiring friends and family members to your coaching staff outweigh the negatives?

Do you need people you can trust, or people you can hold accountable when the time comes to part ways?

Do you need people you have known for years, or people who have track records known to everyone?

Does the threat of being accused of nepotism outweigh the threat of hiring someone who may have more loyalty and ties to other programs and coaches?

This is something Baylor and OU both have in common right now, after Art Briles promoted his son to offensive coordinator (Tulsa got his former OC). When Baylor's offense stops putting up video game numbers, will Art really fire/demote/mutually part with his son?

[SicEmBaylor]

Now that we've all had a day to laugh at Baylor, here's a serious question:

Does the positives of hiring friends and family members to your coaching staff outweigh the negatives?

Do you need people you can trust, or people you can hold accountable when the time comes to part ways?

Do you need people you have known for years, or people who have track records known to everyone?

Does the threat of being accused of nepotism outweigh the threat of hiring someone who may have more loyalty and ties to other programs and coaches?

This is something Baylor and OU both have in common right now, after Art Briles promoted his son to offensive coordinator (Tulsa got his former OC). When Baylor's offense stops putting up video game numbers, will Art really fire/demote/mutually part with his son?

Kendal has been very capable. I don't have a problem at all with his promotion, but the situation is a tad bit different than the situation with the Stoops brothers (I think). There's absolutely no doubt that the Baylor offense is Art's offense. He created it and has been fine tuning it for thirty years going all the way back to high school. If you watch that pre-season ESPN special on Baylor where they go behind the scenes in the program, it's very clear that Art is extremely involved in the Xs-Os. He personally coaches the QBs. Up until a few years ago, he was still calling the plays himself. Monty was the OC but Monty wasn't calling plays until recently.

That's a bit different. My view of Stoops, at least in recent history, is more a 'GM/CEO' style HC. I may be completely wrong, but I think he gives his coordinators a lot of latitude on designing the offense/defense themselves. So when they clearly aren't up to that job, it becomes even more important to let them go. At least if Kendal ends up being incompetent, the offense isn't completely centered around the coordinator. Kendal can be a figurehead so long as CAB steps in. On the other hand, Briles did give 100% free license to Bennett to design and run the defense. They are ALMOST co-equals. So if Bennett isn't getting the job done then he absolutely has to go. I have faith in the guy, but something isn't working.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I have no opinion on the Oakman-Knight situation, but boy was I wrong about Ahmad Dixon..I defended that guy but his behavior in year one in the league proved me wrong.

[badger]

My view of Stoops, at least in recent history, is more a 'GM/CEO' style HC. I may be completely wrong, but I think he gives his coordinators a lot of latitude on designing the offense/defense themselves. So when they clearly aren't up to that job, it becomes even more important to let them go. At least if Kendal ends up being incompetent, the offense isn't completely centered around the coordinator. Kendal can be a figurehead so long as CAB steps in. On the other hand, Briles did give 100% free license to Bennett to design and run the defense. They are ALMOST co-equals. So if Bennett isn't getting the job done then he absolutely has to go. I have faith in the guy, but something isn't working.

You see, Bob Stoops has fine tuned his message to media and the fans for so long that we've all been conned into thinking that offensive and defensive issues are the coordinators' faults, not the head coach's :P

Seriously now, how many FIRE CHUCK THIRD AND LONG, FIRE VULNERABLES and FIRE HEUPEL/MIKE threads have been going over the years here without any real Bob Stoops firing talk (with some exceptions after painful losses)?

And that's why he makes $5 million a year. Tell me SicEm --- how were you BF'ers after yesterday? Calling for the firing of the HC, or the assistants? I suspect Briles has you all trained to his liking much like Stoops has us. It's not our fault. Winning is very fun and addictive

[SicEmBaylor]

You see, Bob Stoops has fine tuned his message to media and the fans for so long that we've all been conned into thinking that offensive and defensive issues are the coordinators' faults, not the head coach's :P

Seriously now, how many FIRE CHUCK THIRD AND LONG, FIRE VULNERABLES and FIRE HEUPEL/MIKE threads have been going over the years here without any real Bob Stoops firing talk (with some exceptions after painful losses)?

And that's why he makes $5 million a year. Tell me SicEm --- how were you BF'ers after yesterday? Calling for the firing of the HC, or the assistants? I suspect Briles has you all trained to his liking much like Stoops has us. It's not our fault. Winning is very fun and addictive

I have no idea. I haven't been to BF.com since the night before the game, and I have no intention of setting foot over there until sometime around June. But the situation with us is completely different. We've improved every year under Briles despite the occasional hiccup and our post-season troubles, and we had a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go from where we were to where we're at. OU is a different story. You're talking about a program with every advantage in the world built into the name with the second highest paid coach in the country that has consistently been performing below what everyone agrees it should be. As I said elsewhere, CAB has accomplished what he's accomplished with 2*/3* recruits. OU is where it's at with 4*/5* recruits.

My guess is that about 1/3 completely blamed Bennett, 1/3 blamed Kendal, and 1/3 blamed some combo of the two.

[BoulderSooner79]

I was a bit surprised that Briles promoted his son, but I thought he did a fine job in the bowl game. It could certainly get ugly if the offense stops producing in the future regardless of the fact it is Art's offense - the OC always takes the heat.

[BoulderSooner79]

I have no opinion on the Oakman-Knight situation, but boy was I wrong about Ahmad Dixon..I defended that guy but his behavior in year one in the league proved me wrong.

Dixon has always been the one that I had problems with and his NFL behavior is no surprise to me. I figure he'll straighten up or be fined or suspended until teams don't want him.

[SicEmBaylor]

I was pretty amused when Kendal pulled this one out of the hat: http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/y39yXUeC_eahgCZHbkgQmA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-01-01/cfeec980-91f7-11e4-892e-4d2e023f25a3_McGowenTD.gif

Good for McGowen (he's Scottish).

[EatLeadCommie]

That was a cool play and the entire feeling at that time was the game was over and Baylor was just playing with them.

Then they fell apart. If Coleman doesn't have that facemask or there isn't that unneccessary block in the back on the INT return, the game is over.

[cvsooner]

What was the deal with Briles' son having adhesive tape on all his fingertips?

[BoulderSooner79]

What was the deal with Briles' son having adhesive tape on all his fingertips?

Reminds him not to pick his nose during the game. He's the OC now and might be on camera.