Post-game article

[Indy Sooner]

Sums up the sad state of affairs quite well: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/29/bob-stoops-welcome-to-the-longest-offseason-of-your-career/

[RU4OU2]

Truth!

[pappy]

True.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Well this is not an article, it's just an entry discussing it on another message board...which makes this 2x hearsay but apparently they are saying on Sirius radio that Stoops plans to announce his retirement within the next 2 weeks. http://oklahoma.scout.com/forums/2445-football-recruiting/13519259-mdr-radio-reporting-ou-and-stoops-may-part-ways-next-week?s=146

It says the source is someone "who goes deep with the SEC on CBS crew." I don't see how that lends this rumor any additional credibility, but stranger things have happened I guess.

[Snrinhouston]

I can't see Stoops resigning from OU. His overwhelming arrogance precludes it.

[EatLeadCommie]

Well this is not an article, it's just an entry discussing it on another message board...which makes this 2x hearsay but apparently they are saying on Sirius radio that Stoops plans to announce his retirement within the next 2 weeks. http://oklahoma.scout.com/forums/2445-football-recruiting/13519259-mdr-radio-reporting-ou-and-stoops-may-part-ways-next-week?s=146

It says the source is someone "who goes deep with the SEC on CBS crew." I don't see how that lends this rumor any additional credibility, but stranger things have happened I guess.

Meh. If that rumor has any legs, we will know within a week because it will leak out that OU is reaching out to other potential coaches to replace Bob. We shall see.

[EatLeadCommie]

I can't see Stoops resigning from OU. His overwhelming arrogance precludes it.

It's hard to be arrogant when you just got buttravaged by a mediocre team and shut out (but for the 2nd stringers) by the DC that clearly wasn't cutting the mustard at OU.

[pappy]

Well this is not an article, it's just an entry discussing it on another message board...which makes this 2x hearsay but apparently they are saying on Sirius radio that Stoops plans to announce his retirement within the next 2 weeks. http://oklahoma.scout.com/forums/2445-football-recruiting/13519259-mdr-radio-reporting-ou-and-stoops-may-part-ways-next-week?s=146

It says the source is someone "who goes deep with the SEC on CBS crew." I don't see how that lends this rumor any additional credibility, but stranger things have happened I guess.

lol not going to happen. He likes cashing his check too much. He doesn't even have to win tough games anymore, just has to be mediocre. lol he isn't resigning.

All that said I couldn't care less if he did.

[bluedogok]

Well this is not an article, it's just an entry discussing it on another message board...which makes this 2x hearsay but apparently they are saying on Sirius radio that Stoops plans to announce his retirement within the next 2 weeks. http://oklahoma.scout.com/forums/2445-football-recruiting/13519259-mdr-radio-reporting-ou-and-stoops-may-part-ways-next-week?s=146

It says the source is someone "who goes deep with the SEC on CBS crew." I don't see how that lends this rumor any additional credibility, but stranger things have happened I guess.
Spencer Tillman?

[SoonerSince72]

To all the Bob haters, who are you going to hire????? Harbaugh? Hes taken.. Muschamp? Already proved hes not a HC... Who?? Be careful what you wish for... Heupel was a very wrong decision, Norvell needs to go, those are clearly issues.... BJW needs to go... and Mike needs to hire a coach for the safeties to be the D coordinator but why in the hell would get rid of Bob? Name another HC who is going to to do what, maybe win five games next year or nine games the next two years if he's lucky?

[EatLeadCommie]

To all the Bob haters, who are you going to hire????? Harbaugh? Hes taken.. Muschamp? Already proved hes not a HC... Who?? Be careful what you wish for... Heupel was a very wrong decision, Norvell needs to go, those are clearly issues.... BJW needs to go... and Mike needs to hire a coach for the safeties to be the D coordinator but why in the hell would get rid of Bob? Name another HC who is going to to do what, maybe win five games next year or nine games the next two years if he's lucky?

Bob was a nobody when we gave him a chance too. It is entirely possible that we go through another Blake or even Gibbs era if Bob steps down, but it is absolute BS to sit here and be chickens about it because we might suck for a couple years. Should we let him coach forever like JoePa or Bobby Bowden and be irrelevant for the remainder of his tenure, or do we take a chance and go with something new? It's not like Oregon lost much when they went from Belotti to Kelly to Helfrich. We are OU. We shouldn't be scared of anything, and that includes change.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Sums up the sad state of affairs quite well: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/29/bob-stoops-welcome-to-the-longest-offseason-of-your-career/

Ouch. The truth really hurts.

[Therealsouthsider]

To all the Bob haters, who are you going to hire????? Harbaugh? Hes taken.. Muschamp? Already proved hes not a HC... Who?? Be careful what you wish for... Heupel was a very wrong decision, Norvell needs to go, those are clearly issues.... BJW needs to go... and Mike needs to hire a coach for the safeties to be the D coordinator but why in the hell would get rid of Bob? Name another HC who is going to to do what, maybe win five games next year or nine games the next two years if he's lucky?


....travel back in time about 16yrs, nobody around here knew Bob Stoops even existed. I'm sure the school could talk someone into it.

ss

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

To all the Bob haters, who are you going to hire????? Harbaugh? Hes taken.. Muschamp? Already proved hes not a HC... Who?? Be careful what you wish for... Heupel was a very wrong decision, Norvell needs to go, those are clearly issues.... BJW needs to go... and Mike needs to hire a coach for the safeties to be the D coordinator but why in the hell would get rid of Bob? Name another HC who is going to to do what, maybe win five games next year or nine games the next two years if he's lucky?

Someone, ANYONE scared and hungry like Bob was when he was first hired.

Complacency kills.

[Soonerjeepman]

dude, you sound like the TV guys....good lord, bob stoops is not God. How long is he going to live on the 2000 nc? honestly how many of those guys were really his?

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but to keep giving him a pass IF he does nothing with the assistants is on him.

If and when stoops goes, yeah, OU will probably have a few down years...but they'll be back.

Honestly I'd say coaching cost OU at least 2 games, maybe 3. Remember motivating your players is just as big a part as x/o's.

[achiro]

If he retires, it's because of a health issue.

[SoonerSince72]

....travel back in time about 16yrs, nobody around here knew Bob Stoops even existed. I'm sure the school could talk someone into it.

ss

Wow... so to go back and accept another Giibbs and then Blake era is acceptable as long as in 15 more years we are national champs again is acceptable? Could not disagree more, the possibility of being Michigan is too strong...so name another HC right now who can do better.... there are obvious changes needed and quite frankly name a better coach to make them... my point is simple, Bob is not Patterno, and all too quickly we forget what nes done... so go get another HC and in threeyears you will say the same thing.....

[EatLeadCommie]

Wow... so to go back and accept another Giibbs and then Blake era is acceptable as long as in 15 more years we are national champs again is acceptable? Could not disagree more, the possibility of being Michigan is too strong...so name another HC right now who can do better.... there are obvious changes needed and quite frankly name a better coach to make them... my point is simple, Bob is not Patterno, and all too quickly we forget what nes done... so go get another HC and in threeyears you will say the same thing.....

Again, it's like you're content to crap in your boots rather than change them out for some new ones because you're afraid the new ones might not fit as well. If you're gonna die, die with your boots on, but don't die with boots on that are full of crap. At least die with clean boots. Kind of like clean underwear.

[Soonerjeepman]

bob wasn't a HC when OU hired him. Just why are you focused on OU getting a HC?

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

bob wasn't a HC when OU hired him. Just why are you focused on OU getting a HC?

Was wondering the same.

[Snrinhouston]

I'm so god damn tired of the question, "who you gonna get to replace Stoops?"

I don't know. And it's not my job to know. That's where Castiglione is supposed to earn his large paycheck.

Here's what I do know.

1. The standard of OU football has been to compete for National Championships. We are not Colorado State, Minnesota, or Kansas.
2. The past six years of data shows that OU has not been in serious contention for a national title.
3. OU either needs to adjust its standard or get rid of Stoops.

[SoonerSince72]

Was wondering the same.

Well you may have missed my point..... I said who are you going to get.... would love to know... everyone is a football expert right? Emotions taken out, my question stands.... but to those who say Stoops should be gone.... I am not focusing on the HC but assistants.... who are a problem on their own.... boomer! From a two time grad at OU.

[Soonerjeepman]

SS72,
Your post was talking about getting a current HC to come to OU. Stoops was an assistant and unkown but OU took a chance. Not saying someone coming in will do a great job, BUT the program is in as good or better place than it was when Stoops came in. Why would any coach be afraid of OU if they let Stoops go? He was here 16 years, got paid great money...won his only NC in his 2nd year..but for the last 14 hasn't done that. Yes, he got OU to a couple of more..but didn't win them.

I don't think OU would go 5 years in the tank. Stoops has lost his fire. Something needs to change.

[birddog]

At this point stoops is a friggin figurehead and bringing in talented assistants would help out quite a bit. It's obvious he's not going to be Oklahoma successful again til he gets Coaches beneath him that haven't already burned out or don't have enough pride to avoid humiliation. This game alone should make everyone question the current staffs competence. A defense this bad should not only scare recruits but scare them from being subjected to Mike stoops alcohol induced schemes. This is nowhere close to the Oklahoma team I love and will never shun. For the love of bud please let us see a team we are proud of once again, and soon!

[SoonerMarkVA]

At this point stoops is a friggin figurehead and bringing in talented assistants would help out quite a bit. It's obvious he's not going to be Oklahoma successful again til he gets Coaches beneath him that haven't already burned out or don't have enough pride to avoid humiliation. This game alone should make everyone question the current staffs competence. A defense this bad should not only scare recruits but scare them from being subjected to Mike stoops alcohol induced schemes. This is nowhere close to the Oklahoma team I love and will never shun. For the love of bud please let us see a team we are proud of once again, and soon!

I seriously doubt he is. We bring in different coaches throughout his tenure, and shockingly they all seem to converge on similar ideas and get similar results. I think Stoops is too much in control of things and desperately needs to back off and let his assistants do their jobs. The barrel is spoiled now, and there's no doubt we need new OC and DC, and to get rid of some guys who are clearly not getting it done in their position duties (my list is BJW, Kish, Norvell, and probably Bedenbaugh). But even if Stoops does that, and then insists the new guys work within the framework he demands, nothing's going to change. It'd be a step *up* if he truly would become a figurehead after cleaning house.

[OUmillenium]

I seriously doubt he is. We bring in different coaches throughout his tenure, and shockingly they all seem to converge on similar ideas and get similar results. I think Stoops is too much in control of things and desperately needs to back off and let his assistants do their jobs. The barrel is spoiled now, and there's no doubt we need new OC and DC, and to get rid of some guys who are clearly not getting it done in their position duties (my list is BJW, Kish, Norvell, and probably Bedenbaugh). But even if Stoops does that, and then insists the new guys work within the framework he demands, nothing's going to change. It'd be a step *up* if he truly would become a figurehead after cleaning house.

This has been the talk around many households here for quite some time. Mangino, Long, and Wilson seem to be not so lame as we once thought.

[SoonerBBall]

You guys are so full of ****.

You act like Bob's hiring was some act of calculated genius by Castiglione. It was a good pick on the surface but he got lucky and Bob turned out to be an amazing pick. To act like it is easy to do is foolish and ignorant. Castiglione also hired Capel trying to recreate his football success in basketball. How well did that go?

[Jack T.]

Well you may have missed my point..... I said who are you going to get.... would love to know... everyone is a football expert right? Emotions taken out, my question stands.... but to those who say Stoops should be gone.... I am not focusing on the HC but assistants.... who are a problem on their own.... boomer! From a two time grad at OU.

You were talking about HC. . .so how about we buy Snyder or Meyer? Heck, Les sold his soul to the devil in return for wins, so he might as well lose his soul working for Oklahoma instead of somebody else.

I'm sure you can give us 100 reasons why neither of those will work, which means you think that we have the absolute best coach available to us right now. Which is fine. . .just say so and be done with it.

[SoonerorLater]

Well you may have missed my point..... I said who are you going to get.... would love to know... everyone is a football expert right? Emotions taken out, my question stands.... but to those who say Stoops should be gone.... I am not focusing on the HC but assistants.... who are a problem on their own.... boomer! From a two time grad at OU.

No, everybody here isn't an expert but Joe C is supposed to be one in the ways of evaluating and hiring coaches. It's hard to look at what we see on the field and have confidence that Bob Stoops will be able to correct the problems. After listening to some of his comments I'm not sure he knows exactly where all the problems lie. Even if he did I doubt he would be willing to do all that is needed to correct the problems if it meant cleaning house.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm so god damn tired of the question, "who you gonna get to replace Stoops?"

I don't know. And it's not my job to know. That's where Castiglione is supposed to earn his large paycheck.

Here's what I do know.

1. The standard of OU football has been to compete for National Championships. We are not Colorado State, Minnesota, or Kansas.
2. The past six years of data shows that OU has not been in serious contention for a national title.
3. OU either needs to adjust its standard or get rid of Stoops.

And here is my counterargument to that - Tom Osborne. The guy went what 20 years before his first MNC? And then he won 3 of them. What you have to understand is that Stoops is a good coach at a good school. All it takes is one great on the field recruiting class to get you back to the top.

[SoonerorLater]

And here is my counterargument to that - Tom Osborne. The guy went what 20 years before his first MNC? And then he won 3 of them. What you have to understand is that Stoops is a good coach at a good school. All it takes is one great on the field recruiting class to get you back to the top.

IMO there really isn't an equivalency with Osborne and what we are now seeing on the field with OU. Osborne never lost more than 3 games in a season (in 25 years), never went as long as Stoops without being in the NC hunt and just generally never let the Nebraska program get into a generalized funk or downtrend.

Here's an interesting stat

59 - 19

That is Frank Solich's record at Nebraska for the six years after he took over for Osborne. Decent but unimpressive.

-----------
59 - 20......

Bob Stoops record over the last six years. To make matters worse we seem to be downtrending. I'm not sure what kind of time frame people are looking at before they feel a coaching change needs to be made. I just don't believe that Bob Stoops is willing or able to make the hard decisions that need to be made. Like it or not the guys that seem to succeed are the maniacally driven SOB's that live, eat and breathe football every waking second, that is whenever they do sleep.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Switzer almost got fired in 83 after 3 8-4 seasons.

There are lots of coaches who have delivered national titles after long dry spells - Mack Brown, Gene Stallings, Fulmer, Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden (#1 in 1980 didn't win it until 93), LaVell Edwards, Don James, Vince Dooley

[SicEmBaylor]

Switzer almost got fired in 83 after 3 8-4 seasons.

There are lots of coaches who have delivered national titles after long dry spells - Mack Brown, Gene Stallings, Fulmer, Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden (#1 in 1980 didn't win it until 93), LaVell Edwards, Don James, Vince Dooley

It was a different era back then. There were no BCS bowls to play for; there was no clear national championship winner; there was no playoff. A modern coach at a program like OU can't survive on the kind of lean seasons that past great coaches had.

[cherokeebrewer]

Sometimes when I see Bob Stoops, I want to ask...Who are you and what have you done with our coach?

[Piware]

To all the Bob haters, who are you going to hire????? Harbaugh? Hes taken.. Muschamp? Already proved hes not a HC... Who?? Be careful what you wish for... Heupel was a very wrong decision, Norvell needs to go, those are clearly issues.... BJW needs to go... and Mike needs to hire a coach for the safeties to be the D coordinator but why in the hell would get rid of Bob? Name another HC who is going to to do what, maybe win five games next year or nine games the next two years if he's lucky?


There seen to be a lot of "fans" on here who are longing for a return of the Gibbs/Blake/Smellyburger years. Remember when Nebraska fired Solich, then Pellini for 9 win seasons, Rocky Top ran Phil Fulmer off when their fans screamed for change, etc? I did not like the Josh decision when he became the OC and thought he did better on the sidelines as the QB coach. Hunch has been confirmed all season and Bob has made other shaky decisions about staffing that made me cringe. I am, however, pretty disappointed with the vitriol and nasty remarks about his salary, cashing his check, etc. He can turn this around so let him do it - if he can't, then it's time to get out the pitchforks.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

It was a different era back then. There were no BCS bowls to play for; there was no clear national championship winner; there was no playoff. A modern coach at a program like OU can't survive on the kind of lean seasons that past great coaches had.

While I agree they can't survive, I think you are missing my point. Football is cyclical. Right now, recruiting Texas is like trying to draw an inside straight for teams like OU and Texas. The guys that we have traditionally went after that were really good 10 years ago are flaming out left and right. At some point that trend is going to change. The question is WHEN it changes do you have a coach that can maximize the talent that you have when it changes. Given how rare it is to find quality college HCs, I think those calling for Stoops' head are trying to shoot the moon with the King of Spades.

[EatLeadCommie]

Bob's going to get his chance to turn it around if he wants it. Even if some of us think it's time for him to step down, nobody is under the impression that he will be forced out. But if he doesn't make any changes-- and I mean changes at nearly every level on both sides of the ball-- then he is just being obstinate and it's time to pull the plug on his time here at OU.

[pappy]

I'm not saying Bob needs to go...I'm saying his coordinators need to go, but since it was brought up if Bob walked away. My first call would be to Scott Frost at Oregon.

[TFSooner]

I'm not saying Bob needs to go...I'm saying his coordinators need to go, but since it was brought up if Bob walked away. My first call would be to Scott Frost at Oregon.
My first call would be to nearly double Art Briles' salary and get his entire staff (or most of it, I would keep Monty and Bedenbaugh) to OU pronto. But that's just me.

[Texas Golfer]

OU used to be able to compete for the star players in Texas when it was only UT and A&M to compete against. Now, throw in Baylor and TCU who are getting many of them and it's not as easy.

One of the things that appears to be going against Stoops is, where most teams take a couple of years to turn a program around, Stoops took a team that didn't have a winning season in the previous 5 years and went 7-5 his first year and 13-0 and a national championship his second. Expectations became so high that winning 8 games in his worst years and averaging over 10 wins a season isn't good enough. We can't lose more than one game and have to be playing for the national championship or the season is a failure.

Fulmer at Tennessee went 152-52 and was fired. Since then, Tennessee has gone 34-40. Be careful of what you wish for.

[SoonerorLater]

OU used to be able to compete for the star players in Texas when it was only UT and A&M to compete against. Now, throw in Baylor and TCU who are getting many of them and it's not as easy.

One of the things that appears to be going against Stoops is, where most teams take a couple of years to turn a program around, Stoops took a team that didn't have a winning season in the previous 5 years and went 7-5 his first year and 13-0 and a national championship his second. Expectations became so high that winning 8 games in his worst years and averaging over 10 wins a season isn't good enough. We can't lose more than one game and have to be playing for the national championship or the season is a failure.

Fulmer at Tennessee went 152-52 and was fired. Since then, Tennessee has gone 34-40. Be careful of what you wish for.

10 wins only tells part of the story. If we aren't part of the national championship landscape then 10 wins is no more than a talking point. The decision to keep or replace coaches needs to be based on some objective criteria. Being afraid of making a hiring decision shouldn't be a reason to remain status quo.

[cvsooner]

I think JKM has it nailed down pretty well. The game Bob and Mike Stoops learned and grew up in has changed, and while they've attempted to adapt, they haven't quite gotten there and aren't comfortable with the current game and scheme and even the players.

As for someone else...I really have no idea. The obvious candidates aren't coming, or you'd have to throw so much money at them that it's not worth it. Even then, there are no guarantees.

Saban was major embarrassed in the Sugar Bowl against Utah a few years ago, and there were some bonehead plays last year (a million yard field goal with no time left against Auburn), and of course he trotted out the 'consolation bowl' argument last year. No guarantees.

Stoops is and can be an excellent coach. Right now, none of us really know if the problem is too much micromanaging or not enough. And ultimately it doesn't matter what we think...it matters what the Board of Regents thinks, and I'm sure they'll let Stoops know what they think. Until then, it's just a lot of spleen venting.

[pappy]

I think JKM has it nailed down pretty well. The game Bob and Mike Stoops learned and grew up in has changed, and while they've attempted to adapt, they haven't quite gotten there and aren't comfortable with the current game and scheme and even the players.

As for someone else...I really have no idea. The obvious candidates aren't coming, or you'd have to throw so much money at them that it's not worth it. Even then, there are no guarantees.

Saban was major embarrassed in the Sugar Bowl against Utah a few years ago, and there were some bonehead plays last year (a million yard field goal with no time left against Auburn), and of course he trotted out the 'consolation bowl' argument last year. No guarantees.

Stoops is and can be an excellent coach. Right now, none of us really know if the problem is too much micromanaging or not enough. And ultimately it doesn't matter what we think...it matters what the Board of Regents thinks, and I'm sure they'll let Stoops know what they think. Until then, it's just a lot of spleen venting.

The problem with using Saban as your example is Saban is in the National title hunt almost every year. He has the occasional year where he loses 2 games and isn't in it, but Bob has been on the downward spiral for several years in a row. Saban had a down year last year and this year (I hate to say it) will probably win the national title and if not he was at least in the game.

Who are the obvious candidates that aren't coming? We haven't made any attempts to see if they'd be interested. Not saying we'd get Saban or Meyer. We haven't asked anyone. I think Briles or Patterson would leave their school to come here. I'd look at Scott Frost OC for Oregon, Kirby Smart DC for Alabama.

[Texas Golfer]

The problem with using Saban as your example is Saban is in the National title hunt almost every year. He has the occasional year where he loses 2 games and isn't in it, but Bob has been on the downward spiral for several years in a row. Saban had a down year last year and this year (I hate to say it) will probably win the national title and if not he was at least in the game.

Who are the obvious candidates that aren't coming? We haven't made any attempts to see if they'd be interested. Not saying we'd get Saban or Meyer. We haven't asked anyone. I think Briles or Patterson would leave their school to come here. I'd look at Scott Frost OC for Oregon, Kirby Smart DC for Alabama.

Briles and Patterson won't leave. Briles' entire coaching career is in Texas, high school and college. He's a Texan through and through and quite happy at Baylor. Patterson is established at TCU and has the program where he wants it. A coordinator would jump at the chance to come to Oklahoma.

[Eielson]

Who are the obvious candidates that aren't coming?

There are only a couple of coaches that are clearly better than Stoops, and we aren't getting any of them. We're not getting Harbaugh, Meyer, Saban, or any of the NFL guys like Pete Carroll. Patterson isn't an upgrade. Briles might, but that's still TBD, and even UT couldn't get him, so we sure aren't.

Hiring a coordinator makes sense in some situations, but it's beyond me why anybody would even think about firing a guy like Stoops just to grab a guy with absolutely no HC experience.

[pappy]

There are only a couple of coaches that are clearly better than Stoops, and we aren't getting any of them. We're not getting Harbaugh, Meyer, Saban, or any of the NFL guys like Pete Carroll. Patterson isn't an upgrade. Briles might, but that's still TBD, and even UT couldn't get him, so we sure aren't.

Hiring a coordinator makes sense in some situations, but it's beyond me why anybody would even think about firing a guy like Stoops just to grab a guy with absolutely no HC experience.

I'm not saying Bob needs to go. I'm more of a Mike, Josh, BJW and Kish need to go. They shouldn't even have been allowed to get on the plane, should have been fired before they even made it inside the locker room. Bob won't do it and that's one of the reasons I don't really care for him to stay. He won't make the tough decisions. Mike's defense sucked and there was talent and yeah it was inexperienced but they didn't get better they got worse as the season went on. That's poor coaching.

[cherokeebrewer]

Bob Stoops is not going to be fired and he's not going to fire his brother. But hey, there's always Alabama...

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The problem with using Saban as your example is Saban is in the National title hunt almost every year. He has the occasional year where he loses 2 games and isn't in it, but Bob has been on the downward spiral for several years in a row. Saban had a down year last year and this year (I hate to say it) will probably win the national title and if not he was at least in the game.

Who are the obvious candidates that aren't coming? We haven't made any attempts to see if they'd be interested. Not saying we'd get Saban or Meyer. We haven't asked anyone. I think Briles or Patterson would leave their school to come here. I'd look at Scott Frost OC for Oregon, Kirby Smart DC for Alabama.

Yes but part of that reason is that Alabama (the state) is producing talent at unhistorical levels. If Oklahoma was producing 2-3 1st round picks every single year (guaranteeing 7-8 on a team), we'd be in the national title hunt every year. Right now, Alabama is producing as much 1st round talent as Texas and there is a lot less competition for those players. Ever since the state of Texas embraced the spread, the teams who recruit the "best" in Texas have had their average talent level reduced dramatically.

[Eielson]

Bob Stoops is not going to be fired and he's not going to fire his brother. But hey, there's always Alabama...

You guys like to make fun of the Alabama victory, but it's meaningful, seeing as it came against one of the only guys who could replace Bob. I can't recall anybody that's outdueled Bob for any length of time other than Briles. He's got the edge on Snyder, overmatched Belotti, wiped his *** with Gundy, outdueled Leach and Patterson, shamed Brown, punched Jimbo in the mouth, lost a close one to Meyer, and traded blows with Saban.

I don't know how you expect to easily replace this guy.

[aurorasooner]

I'm not saying Bob needs to go. I'm more of a Mike, Josh, BJW and Kish need to go. They shouldn't even have been allowed to get on the plane, should have been fired before they even made it inside the locker room. Bob won't do it and that's one of the reasons I don't really care for him to stay. He won't make the tough decisions. Mike's defense sucked and there was talent and yeah it was inexperienced but they didn't get better they got worse as the season went on. That's poor coaching.I was going to watch the 1st half again tonight, but then I watched Clemson's 1st offensive play and we had 3 defensive players out on the edge and all 3 of them whiffed and acted like clowns who had never played defensive football before. I really don't know how you could put any other way than just poor pathetic coaching.
Back when Stoops came here, if any of his players pulled that kind of "let somebody else make the play" they would've been benched indefinitely.
We've either recruited some way below average players or there's some other problem percolating behind the scenes. Just sad. Geez. I know LSU got beaten today by ND, but if there would've been 3 LSU defenders out there instead of ours, the Clemson guy would've had his head ripped off.

[Eielson]

I was going to watch the 1st half again tonight, but then I watched Clemson's 1st offensive play and we had 3 defensive players out on the edge and all 3 of them whiffed and acted like clowns who had never played defensive football before. I really don't know how you could put any other way than just poor pathetic coaching.
Back when Stoops came here, if any of his players pulled that kind of "let somebody else make the play" they would've been benched indefinitely.
We've either recruited some way below average players or there's some other problem percolating behind the scenes. Just sad. Geez. I know LSU got beaten today by ND, but if there would've been 3 LSU defenders out there instead of ours, the Clemson guy would've had his head ripped off.

When three guys whiff, that's "failure to execute." It's not like they've never been taught to how to tackle.

Ultimately, yes, our coaching staff brought those players in, so it's their responsibility to bring guys in that can execute, but by those standards, any type of shortcoming on the field is always coaching with no exceptions. We might as well blame the coaches for everything that goes wrong, and not worry about analyzing any of it.

I suppose we may be able to give Mike a bit of pardon for his defensive scheme if any of those three whiffers were brought in by other coaches, though.

[cherokeebrewer]

You guys like to make fun of the Alabama victory, but it's meaningful, seeing as it came against one of the only guys who could replace Bob. I can't recall anybody that's outdueled Bob for any length of time other than Briles. He's got the edge on Snyder, overmatched Belotti, wiped his *** with Gundy, outdueled Leach and Patterson, shamed Brown, punched Jimbo in the mouth, lost a close one to Meyer, and traded blows with Saban.

I don't know how you expect to easily replace this guy.

I don't know about "You guys" but that was Hoover's comment. I loved the Bama victory and I don't want Bob fired. I just want the aliens who abducted him to send him back...

[Sabanball]

Is Clemson really 34 pts better than you guys? Heck no. Simply put, Oklahoma looked like a team that didn't want to be there. Sound familiar??

[Eielson]

Is Clemson really 34 pts better than you guys? Heck no. Simply put, Oklahoma looked like a team that didn't want to be there. Sound familiar??

We got our asses handed to us, and we own that.

Your turn.

[SoonerorLater]

Yes but part of that reason is that Alabama (the state) is producing talent at unhistorical levels. If Oklahoma was producing 2-3 1st round picks every single year (guaranteeing 7-8 on a team), we'd be in the national title hunt every year. Right now, Alabama is producing as much 1st round talent as Texas and there is a lot less competition for those players. Ever since the state of Texas embraced the spread, the teams who recruit the "best" in Texas have had their average talent level reduced dramatically.

Out of the top 16 players recruited this year by Alabama only 4 are from Alabama.

[Eielson]

Out of the top 16 players recruited this year by Alabama only 4 are from Alabama.

The players they're recruiting this year have had no impact on their past or present success.

Also, the year the state of Oklahoma produced Gresham, Bradford, and McCoy, I'd bet OU had similar numbers. Those guys obviously had a pretty big impact even though it was only three guys.

[SoonerorLater]

The players they're recruiting this year have had no impact on their past or present success.

Right, but he said "producing" as in the present tense.

[Texas Golfer]

Right, but he said "producing" as in the present tense.

The state of Alabama is still producing excellent players. It's just not that Alabama is getting them all anymore. Auburn is being successful in home town recruits, too.

[Sabanball]

Out of the top 16 players recruited this year by Alabama only 4 are from Alabama.

Correct. Saban recruits nationally and relentlessly goes wherever the talent is. Blake Barnett, the top-rated QB of the 2015 class, is from California and signed with us and Derrick Henry, the all-time leading HS rusher(who you saw in last yrs sugar bowl) is from the state of Florida. We recruit coast to coast--we have to, as mentioned our state does not produce enough D-1 talent to support our program. We've finished with the number one class (as rated by Rivals) 5 of the last 6 yrs, and never out of the top 10 in the 8 yrs he's been here.

Of course, recruiting is only one piece that is vital to achieving and maintaining a highly successful program, you also need coaches that that can develop talent, which I think both Saban and Stoops are very good at. What has really surprised me though and seems to run parallel to your program's recent slide is that you all don't seem to be getting the amount of elite pkayers that you used to, and it has been reflected in the recruiting rankings. I know that recruiting is not an exact science, yada yada yada... But rankings are usually a pretty good indicator. I'd like to read an honest, detailed assessment of your recruiting over the last 6-7 yrs from one of you and to what extent you think that might tie in to the current state of your program.

[SoonerorLater]

The state of Alabama is still producing excellent players. It's just not that Alabama is getting them all anymore. Auburn is being successful in home town recruits, too.

Auburn only has 4 commits of the 4-5 star type from within Alabama. I'll stipulate that on a per capita basis Alabama is producing some good talent but the preponderance of recruits for both of these schools is coming from out of state. It isn't in-state talent that is making Alabama the premier program in the country. It is coaching and the ability of these coaches to go where they want and recruit the talent they want.

[SoonerorLater]

Correct. Saban recruits nationally and relentlessly goes wherever the talent is. Blake Barnett, the top-rated QB of the 2015 class, is from California and signed with us and Derrick Henry, the all-time leading HS rusher(who you saw in last yrs sugar bowl) is from the state of Florida. We recruit coast to coast--we have to, as mentioned our state does not produce enough D-1 talent to support our program. We've finished with the number one class (as rated by Rivals) 5 of the last 6 yrs, and never out of the top 10 in the 8 yrs he's been here.

Of course, recruiting is only one piece that is vital to achieving and maintaining a highly successful program, you also need coaches that that can develop talent, which I think both Saban and Stoops are very good at. What has really surprised me though and seems to run parallel to your program's recent slide is that you all don't seem to be getting the amount of elite pkayers that you used to, and it has been reflected in the recruiting rankings. I know that recruiting is not an exact science, yada yada yada... But rankings are usually a pretty good indicator. I'd like to read an honest, detailed assessment of your recruiting over the last 6-7 yrs from one of you and to what extent you think that might tie in to the current state of your program.

I think JKM is the wonk on that kind of stuff but my casual observations are that while recruiting may be considered a bit down we aren't making the best use of the talent we have (read coaching). Right now if Rivals is to be considered something of a reputable source our class on an average star basis, looks a lot like Georgia, Auburn, LSU or the team we got thumped by on Monday Night, Clemson. What I see on the field just can't be laid to recruiting alone.

I'm watching a game right now, Boise / Arizona. Very few of the Boise players would have been recruited by Oklahoma. I have yet to see a Boise team that has came out and laid an egg like we did Monday. Boise may be over-matched and even lose the game but they always look like they are ready when they hit the field. Always a tough out for any team they play. We just look lost from game to game. OU trolls the same recruiting areas as TCU and would win most of the recruiting battles for the same players but on the field this year it isn't even close. If it's just a matter of Texas recruiting being down how do you explain TCU and Baylor?

I think we have recruited to a hodge-podge of talent without regard to an underlying offensive/defensive philosophy. We just need to decide what we want to be, recruit to that and get these players the coaches they need to help them succeed.

[SicEmBaylor]

We just look lost from game to game. OU trolls the same recruiting areas as TCU and would win most of the recruiting battles for the same players but on the field this year it isn't even close. If it's just a matter of Texas recruiting being down how do you explain TCU and Baylor?

Exactly. We (Baylor) are where we are today on the backs of 2* and 3* recruits who had few other Division I offers. We just picked up our first 5* recruit...EVER. Take a moment to let that sink in -- our very first 5* recruit is still in high school. TCU is the same way.

I don't know how someone can seriously argue that OU's problems are simply because of 'recruiting being down in Texas.' Are you telling me it isn't the actual coaching and development? Seriously? Do you want to tell me how Briles and Patterson have built dead programs into top-5 teams with 2-3* recruits while OU has struggled year after year after year with poor development? And you want to blame that entirely on recruiting and not coaching? Give me a break.

[SicEmBaylor]

1)OU isn't recruiting the players it needs. They're chasing stars instead of chasing potential.
2)OU Coaches are not doing a good job at developing the players.
3)OU Coaches have absolutely no defining offensive or defensive character....no central philosophy.
4)OU Coaches are doing a poor job at developing game plans.
5)OU Coaches are doing a poor job at play calling.

[Eielson]

If OU is recruiting based off stars, then they're not doing it very well.

And I think we've only seen about 1 5-star player see the field for any considerable amount of time, and he was a stud, and just turned pro. Our 5-stars have pretty much all transfered early (McCay, Williams, and Calhoun (?)), jerked off in public (Metoyer), or punched deserving women (Mixon). So essentially we've been playing without 5 stars for a couple years now. Jordan Phillips is the one I was alluding to earlier, and he wasn't even a 5-star across the board.

If 3-stars developing into NFL-caliber is the standard for developing players, then we've done that with a handful of guys like Colvin, Sanchez, and Tapper (this is off the top of my head). We just haven't done that across the board, and it's killed us at safety and quarterback. Probably not coincidentally, those are the positions that our coordinators are in charge of.

Another major issue is the class of 2011 ( I think). 8X made a thread about it, so check that out if you're interested. It's historically bad.

[pappy]

Everyone blaming recruiting...you do realize if the recruiting is sucking its the coaches fault there too, right? They are the ones recruiting these players.

This downward spiral is on the coaches, period.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Everyone blaming recruiting...you do realize if the recruiting is sucking its the coaches fault there too, right? They are the ones recruiting these players.

This downward spiral is on the coaches, period.

Every problem falls at the feet of the coaches, regardless of what it is.

My personal opinion is that our coaches are struggling to evaluate talent in Texas since it isn't all Wing T anymore (which has mainly nullified BJW). I think this is where Briles has such a huge advantage in evaluation because since he started the Texas Spread HS trend, he understands better how the system overrates some guys and underrates others. Texas has basically turned into California where teams like Nevada can grab as many NFL draft picks from a recruiting class as USC or UCLA.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Out of the top 16 players recruited this year by Alabama only 4 are from Alabama.

I'm looking at things from a post-mortem view - Of the players that Alabama has gotten drafted, most of them are from Alabama. It doesn't mean that in the future, that will change, it is just an explanation of success.

When you look at this class -> https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/commitments/2006 -> our best players were from NV and OK with 2 OL from TX.

The next year, our best player was from OK -> https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/commitments/2007 -> did we go back to Nevada? Nope. And look who came out of NV that year that went to Nevada -> https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/commitments/2007/nevada-39. Our class was horrible. Horrible.

[SoonerorLater]

Every problem falls at the feet of the coaches, regardless of what it is.

My personal opinion is that our coaches are struggling to evaluate talent in Texas since it isn't all Wing T anymore (which has mainly nullified BJW). I think this is where Briles has such a huge advantage in evaluation because since he started the Texas Spread HS trend, he understands better how the system overrates some guys and underrates others. Texas has basically turned into California where teams like Nevada can grab as many NFL draft picks from a recruiting class as USC or UCLA.

I guess the question is, at least for purposes of this conversation, does OU need new/different coaches or new/different players, or both? Just as a comparison, Oklahoma shows to have 32 players in the NFL. Baylor 11. Boise has 16. So we have had enough talent to put more players in the NFL than Boise and Baylor combined. I don't think it's exaggerating to say that both of these teams have played at more of a "peak performance" level than OU has. Why?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I guess the question is, at least for purposes of this conversation, does OU need new/different coaches or new/different players, or both? Just as a comparison, Oklahoma shows to have 32 players in the NFL. Baylor 11. Boise has 16. So we have had enough talent to put more players in the NFL than Boise and Baylor combined. I don't think it's exaggerating to say that both of these teams have played at more of a "peak performance" level than OU has. Why?

Well, lets look at this year. You are losing Jordan Phillips to the NFL draft. How much of an impact on games has he had compared with losing someone like Saunders? Our problem is that we have talent at positions that don't have much of an impact on the scoreboard. In college, you have to have TEs, WRs, LBs and Safeties.