At least Shannon and Mixon...

[Curly Bill]

...weren't allowed to hang around and sully the greatness of the 2014 OU football season!

Thanks Bob and the OU admin! The ladies down at the Cotillion are so very pleased with your strong stance.

It's questionable how pleased some of the lads on the football team were with your stance, but really...what do they matter, right?

[GDC]

I don't think Mixon's absence was that big a deal this year. Another player to hand the ball off to probably would have resulted in more confusion and the need for additional time outs.

Losing Shannon on the other hand was a big loss. Last year, he repeatedly displayed the skills necessary to run down opposing receivers from behind. He could even chase down the occasional tight end or running back that had been left uncovered. OU had several guys that could do that this year, but Shannon did it with style. M Stoops has got to keep bringing in those guys that have mastered the art of the ten-yard cushion. Man to man pass defense is so yesterday.

[dwarthog]

I don't think Mixon's absence was that big a deal this year. Another player to hand the ball off to probably would have resulted in more confusion and the need for additional time outs.

Losing Shannon on the other hand was a big loss. Last year, he repeatedly displayed the skills necessary to run down opposing receivers from behind. He could even chase down the occasional tight end or running back that had been left uncovered. OU had several guys that could do that this year, but Shannon did it with style. M Stoops has got to keep bringing in those guys that have mastered the art of the ten-yard cushion. Man to man pass defense is so yesterday.

Hey, we can't be soiling those receivers jerseys just because they might catch a pass or something.

[Sooner8th]

...weren't allowed to hang around and sully the greatness of the 2014 OU football season!

Thanks Bob and the OU admin! The ladies down at the Cotillion are so very pleased with your strong stance.

It's questionable how pleased some of the lads on the football team were with your stance, but really...what do they matter, right?

Shannon and winston's incidents are almost identical, wintson happened in '12 and has managed to play two years since, shannon hasn't played a down since.

[ouhomer123]

I really hope Mixon does not play a down, he has already shown what he is all about. A black eye for the program no pun intended.

[Therealsouthsider]

....OUs had enough black eyes with the crap that's been thrown on the field the last few years

....8-10 win seasons are not what define Oklahoma football, All-Americans and titles are where it's at....we've been dumbed down to accept and define mediocrity as success while I take out signature loans to pay for my season tickets

ss

[BoulderSooner79]

CB just has a bone to pick and will periodically regurgitate it regardless of facts. There is no coach in the country, including Jimbo Fisher, that would have played Mixon this year. He still had serious charges pending against him right up until the second he and his lawyer accepted the plea deal at the end of October. And he only accepted that deal because he knew he would be doomed facing a jury that watched the video of the incident. Mixon got about the best treatment a player could expect in that situation and he probably only got it because of his age.

With Shannon, we'll never know what really happened because everything was sealed, so CB is free to speculate away. I don't think he would have made a huge difference unless he could help our secondary not be last in the conference.

[Plexis22]

I think you can tie part of the collapse of OU this season to both players. Shannon was sorely missed on the defense and by many players who thought OU was in the wrong handling his situation. The Mixon debacle was a similar issue and just cast a bad shadow over what was supposed to be a promising season. Not getting DGB eligible was the final straw and that's when I knew this was going to be tough season IF Knight underachieved which he did (and then got hurt).

[FaninAma]

Shannon and winston's incidents are almost identical, wintson happened in '12 and has managed to play two years since, shannon hasn't played a down since.
No they weren't. Winston actually raped a girl. Shannon never engaged in a sexual act.

[BoulderSooner79]

No they weren't. Winston actually raped a girl. Shannon never engaged in a sexual act.

You don't know that either, you just know there was a sexual act. Winston is claiming it was consensual. Given his lack of morals, it's easy to conclude he is guilty, but it is wrong to state it as fact.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Those guys would have helped. Maybe that's enough to make a difference of a touchdown. Can either of them kick field goals? Considering 3 of the 4 losses were by 4 or less, we weren't too many points shy of a very different season. The Baylor blowout was way more than 2 men.

[Curly Bill]

I'm not talking about those two guys helping! I'm talking about the message it sends to all the players on the team that if you screw up the head ball coach DOES NOT have your back!

Several of the top recruits for this recruiting cycle, one of em a 5-star cornerback whose name I don't remember, specifically mentioned Jimbo's penchant for backing his players to the hilt as the main reason he was likely going to attend Florida State, but hell...it's not like we'd be interested in a 5-star cornerback!

You folks can moralize all you want about the type of players you want on the team, look at it through the prism of your adult eyes, but 18-23 year old males don't see things the way we do, and for Bob that should be his target audience. And I promise ya - some of those 18-23 year olds took from the Shannon & Mixon dealios that if Bob won't run through a wall for them, then why should they do so for him?

[soonergirlNeugene]

There should be a limit to how badly you can screw up and still expect someone to have your back.

[Curly Bill]

There should be a limit to how badly you can screw up and still expect someone to have your back.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm not an 18 year old male, and I don't think you are either???

[Eielson]

I'm not talking about those two guys helping! I'm talking about the message it sends to all the players on the team that if you screw up the head ball coach DOES NOT have your back!

Several of the top recruits for this recruiting cycle, one of em a 5-star cornerback whose name I don't remember, specifically mentioned Jimbo's penchant for backing his players to the hilt as the main reason he was likely going to attend Florida State, but hell...it's not like we'd be interested in a 5-star cornerback!

You folks can moralize all you want about the type of players you want on the team, look at it through the prism of your adult eyes, but 18-23 year old males don't see things the way we do, and for Bob that should be his target audience. And I promise ya - some of those 18-23 year olds took from the Shannon & Mixon dealios that if Bob won't run through a wall for them, then why should they do so for him?

It sounds to me like what the kid is saying is that he likes that Jimbo will let kids get away with anything as long as they play well on the field. A couple of those guys are nice to have, but if you get too many, the program will eventually pay for it. I expect that FSU's legal issues will catch up to them eventually.

[Curly Bill]

It sounds to me like what the kid is saying is that he likes that Jimbo will let kids get away with anything as long as they play well on the field. A couple of those guys are nice to have, but if you get too many, the program will eventually pay for it. I expect that FSU's legal issues will catch up to them eventually.

Maybe so, but I see the NCAA as a paper tiger so who's going to lower the boom on them? In the meantime FSU is competing for and winning National Championships. OU is 8-4, and does anyone really see next season being demonstrably better?

[Eielson]

Maybe so, but I see the NCAA as a paper tiger so who's going to lower the boom on them? In the meantime FSU is competing for and winning National Championships. OU is 8-4, and does anyone really see next season being demonstrably better?

If we get to keep DGB, yeah. Between Knight, Thomas, Mayfield, and Hansen, I'm sure somebody is going to figure out how to lob it up to him once every 5 plays.

[soonergirlNeugene]

I'd put the odds of DGB staying about the same as Perine playing 4 years of college ball. Or Heupel getting hired by Michigan. Or Baylor not laying another fat goose egg in its bowl game. Or....yeah, you get it I think.

[Eielson]

I'd put the odds of DGB staying about the same as Perine playing 4 years of college ball. Or Heupel getting hired by Michigan. Or Baylor not laying another fat goose egg in its bowl game. Or....yeah, you get it I think.

So you're saying our odds are pretty good if Michigan needs a TE coach?

[Curly Bill]

If we get to keep DGB, yeah. Between Knight, Thomas, Mayfield, and Hansen, I'm sure somebody is going to figure out how to lob it up to him once every 5 plays.

Are we going to be able to stop anybody though? Is Heupel even smart enough to use DGB if he's around?

And the big question: Is Bob gonna have any fire in him to fix this mess? It's challenging to wake up all full of P&V when you live in the home he does, and have the bank account I'm sure he has.

[Eielson]

Are we going to be able to stop anybody though? Is Heupel even smart enough to use DGB if he's around?

And the big question: Is Bob gonna have any fire in him to fix this mess? It's challenging to wake up all full of P&V when you live in the home he does, and have the bank account I'm sure he has.

I don't know if it was Heupel's doing or Knight's, but we were smart enough to throw it to Shepard every time. Somehow we averaged almost 40 points this year, and I can't imagine our situation on offense getting any worse next year.

Our defense made the stops it needed to make usually. Baylor and OSU were the only teams to score more than 10 points on us in the second half if you exclude Tech's meaningless TD as time expired.

Edit: actually Texas scored 13 in the second half, but I bet we only gave up about 10 points a game in the second half, which isn't too bad.

[BoulderSooner79]

Mixon and Shannon are 2 vastly different cases. There is absolutely no grounds for Stoops to "have Mixon's back" and if there are recruits that think he should, let someone else have them. If I wanted to watch a sport where all that matters is results on the field regardless of criminal behavior, I'd watch the NFL. But it seems even the NFL isn't as tolerant anymore. Whether that's strictly for PR reasons or not doesn't matter. The bottom line is that NFL player are being held out of games due to their off field behavior even though there is massive amounts of $$ on the line.

I fully admit I don't understand the Shannon thing. But I also admit I don't have enough information to judge.

[Curly Bill]

Mixon and Shannon are 2 vastly different cases. There is absolutely no grounds for Stoops to "have Mixon's back" and if there are recruits that think he should, let someone else have them. If I wanted to watch a sport where all that matters is results on the field regardless of criminal behavior, I'd watch the NFL. But it seems even the NFL isn't as tolerant anymore. Whether that's strictly for PR reasons or not doesn't matter. The bottom line is that NFL player are being held out of games due to their off field behavior even though there is massive amounts of $$ on the line.

I fully admit I don't understand the Shannon thing. But I also admit I don't have enough information to judge.

Don't worry! Those recruits are going somewhere else!!!

[BoulderSooner79]

Don't worry! Those recruits are going somewhere else!!!

Yes they are, but that drain started a few years back.

[Eielson]

Alright. Gonna have to crunch the numbers here. If we exclude non-conference blowout wins, ST TDs, pick-6's, meaningless TDs in the final 2 or 3 minutes, etc. -

2nd Half points the Defense Allowed:

LT, TU: Blowouts
Tennessee: 3
WVU: 3
TCU: 7
UT: 13
KSU: 10
ISU: 7
Baylor: 24
Tech: 10
KU: 0
OSU: 14

That's 9.1 points per game against Power 5 schools. I'd venture to say that was one of our better seasons in that regard. There were only 12 points of meaningless TDs that I excluded (Tech and WVU). 10.3 is the official number.

[Curly Bill]

Yes they are, but that drain started a few years back.

Maybe related to the dual perception that 1. Bob can't win a game that matters, and 2. He won't support you if it means offending the PC types.

But hell...8-4 isn't THAT bad. I mean...we could get used to that, right?

[BoulderSooner79]

Maybe related to the dual perception that 1. Bob can't win a game that matters, and 2. He won't support you if it means offending the PC types.

But hell...8-4 isn't THAT bad. I mean...we could get used to that, right?

You're going to stick to your PC rant regardless of any facts, so have at it. There is a much larger group that has been questioning our recruiting success for several years and have more solid data to back it up. I don't know why it is since I don't follow the inside of the recruiting game that closely. I can just say that looking back at the '08 team, I just haven't seen us have as much strength and especially depth to even compare. When we do have a strong team such as in '11 it is razor thin and we fold after the first critical injury. I realize that no team is likely to win it all if they lose star players, but we don't just drop down a little, we drop down to the level of unranked teams. Maybe we don't have a coaching staff that can sell OU or maybe the CFB world has just shifted so far to the SEC states that it's just not possible to recruit at that level in Norman. I'm sure there are plenty of experts out there that have the answer, but I doubt they are on our coaching staff.

[Curly Bill]

You're going to stick to your PC rant regardless of any facts, so have at it. There is a much larger group that has been questioning our recruiting success for several years and have more solid data to back it up. I don't know why it is since I don't follow the inside of the recruiting game that closely. I can just say that looking back at the '08 team, I just haven't seen us have as much strength and especially depth to even compare. When we do have a strong team such as in '11 it is razor thin and we fold after the first critical injury. I realize that no team is likely to win it all if they lose star players, but we don't just drop down a little, we drop down to the level of unranked teams. Maybe we don't have a coaching staff that can sell OU or maybe the CFB world has just shifted so far to the SEC states that it's just not possible to recruit at that level in Norman. I'm sure there are plenty of experts out there that have the answer, but I doubt they are on our coaching staff.

I'm in the group that has been questioning our recruiting for the past several cycles - go research it, you'll see I'm right! (I'm the guy that liked to point it out when in many cases we won recruits from the likes of North Texas, New Mexico and the always powerful Louisiana Monroe).

But what does that have to do with the possible perception among current recruits (I'm not in their heads so I don't know for sure) that the head ball coach does not have his players backs if it is politically tricky to do so.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive!!!

[Curly Bill]

By the way: Our most recent cornerback recruit... we pried him away from the clutches of Ball State!


But yeah, let Jimbo sign the 5-star guys. I'd rather pick up the scraps that Ball State is fighting for.

[Eielson]

By the way: Our most recent cornerback recruit... we pried him away from the clutches of Ball State!


But yeah, let Jimbo sign the 5-star guys. I'd rather pick up the scraps that Ball State is fighting for.

That's one guy, and perhaps we saw something that other teams didn't. We picked up a stud in Sunderland, and Mbanasor has been offered by basically everybody and their dog. We recruited DBs pretty well this year.

[SoonerorLater]

Mixon and Shannon are 2 vastly different cases. There is absolutely no grounds for Stoops to "have Mixon's back" and if there are recruits that think he should, let someone else have them. If I wanted to watch a sport where all that matters is results on the field regardless of criminal behavior, I'd watch the NFL. But it seems even the NFL isn't as tolerant anymore. Whether that's strictly for PR reasons or not doesn't matter. The bottom line is that NFL player are being held out of games due to their off field behavior even though there is massive amounts of $$ on the line.

I fully admit I don't understand the Shannon thing. But I also admit I don't have enough information to judge.

On a moralistic level I agree with you that the bad off field behavior is not acceptable. Pragmatically I know we can't succeed as a team if we play by Marquess of Queensberry rules while the FSU's of the NCAA universe adapt a more laissez faire attitude. You can't compete under those circumstances. FSU is doing what they need to do to win. After the season maybe they deliver some mea culpa that they should have been more diligent and in the future they will work harder, blah, blah, etc, etc.

When you fight to win you have to hold your nose and do things you otherwise would not support. Either that or you lose.

[Curly Bill]

That's one guy, and perhaps we saw something that other teams didn't. We picked up a stud in Sunderland, and Mbanasor has been offered by basically everybody and their dog. We recruited DBs pretty well this year.

It's actually a trend over the past several years where we are signing guys that almost, or in some cases zero other, major programs are interested in. Maybe we're just smarter than those other programs? Or maybe we're smarter by half? I'll let the folks look at the results and decide for themselves! ;)

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm in the group that has been questioning our recruiting for the past several cycles - go research it, you'll see I'm right! (I'm the guy that liked to point it out when in many cases we won recruits from the likes of North Texas, New Mexico and the always powerful Louisiana Monroe).

But what does that have to do with the possible perception among current recruits (I'm not in their heads so I don't know for sure) that the head ball coach does not have his players backs if it is politically tricky to do so.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive!!!

Maybe there is that perception, but I don't see it going back to '08. I do think there may be an issue, but not because a coach won't defend a kid that gets in trouble off the field. A common theme among winning teams even all the up to the "just business" NFL level is that they claim they were family. And that includes teams coached by harsh disciplinarian coaches must stricter than Stoops. With OU, it seems there are many players critical of the program after they leave and not just players bitter about playing time. These were starting and star players. Maybe Stoops is too much CEO and aloof, but for whatever reason, it doesn't seem we get that tight knit family feeling in the team and it seems to reflect in how much passion we get on the field. I'm wandering off into very subjective areas, so I could just be too sensitive to what I see at OU and it could be all teams are pretty much like this.

[Curly Bill]

Maybe there is that perception, but I don't see it going back to '08. I do think there may be an issue, but not because a coach won't defend a kid that gets in trouble off the field. A common theme among winning teams even all the up to the "just business" NFL level is that they claim they were family. And that includes teams coached by harsh disciplinarian coaches must stricter than Stoops. With OU, it seems there are many players critical of the program after they leave and not just players bitter about playing time. These were starting and star players. Maybe Stoops is too much CEO and aloof, but for whatever reason, it doesn't seem we get that tight knit family feeling in the team and it seems to reflect in how much passion we get on the field. I'm wandering off into very subjective areas, so I could just be too sensitive to what I see at OU and it could be all teams are pretty much like this.

I don't disagree with that, but all these things can fit together: The multiple year poor recruiting trend, current perception Bob will cave to the PC crowd and not defend his players, and he's an aloof SOB. All very likely, and all not conducive to national championship caliber football teams.

[Curly Bill]

Florida State currently has the #2 ranked recruiting class behind Alabama FWIW. OU is not in the top 25 last time I looked.

[Eielson]

It's actually a trend over the past several years where we are signing guys that almost, or in some cases zero other, major programs are interested in. Maybe we're just smarter than those other programs? Or maybe we're smarter by half? I'll let the folks look at the results and decide for themselves! ;)

So you're saying there is no way FSU would fight us over a guy that only has offers from schools like Louisville-Lafayette and Souther Miss?

https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Tito-Windham-149172;_ylt=AuVCvoWB5Q_eHRpxUA.nVMSWtJB4

[Eielson]

Florida State currently has the #2 ranked recruiting class behind Alabama FWIW. OU is not in the top 25 last time I looked.

We're #21, but that's with only 16 players committed. We're #12 on average stars per commitment, which is the better indicator IMO. Even in Bob's earlier days, we usually hovered around #10.

[Curly Bill]

So you're saying there is no way FSU would fight us over a guy that only has offers from schools like Louisville-Lafayette and Souther Miss?

https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Tito-Windham-149172;_ylt=AuVCvoWB5Q_eHRpxUA.nVMSWtJB4

Nowhere did I say we don't recruit against other major programs, and even occasionally sometimes win. I am well aware of Tito Windham and his recruitment. I don't mind arguing but try not to just make things up.

[Curly Bill]

We're #21, but that's with only 16 players committed. We're #12 on average stars per commitment, which is the better indicator IMO. Even in Bob's earlier days, we usually hovered around #10.

So, we moved up from #26 or wherever we where before the latest update. That's comforting to be sitting at #21.

[Eielson]

Nowhere did I say we don't recruit against other major programs, and even occasionally sometimes win. I am well aware of Tito Windham and his recruitment. I don't mind arguing but try not to just make things up.

What did I make up?

Rivals shows that if we hadn't recruited the guy, FSU would have been fighting ULL and Southern Miss.

[Curly Bill]

What did I make up?

Rivals shows that if we hadn't recruited the guy, FSU would have been fighting ULL and Southern Miss.

Good for them! But what does that have to do with the other cats we signed that in some cases no other major programs wanted, or in some cases were only wanted by 2nd-level type programs? And no, I don't care enough to go research a list of exactly who it was.

[BoulderSooner79]

Bama and FSU has been rated at the very top of recruiting classes for several years now. Precedes any PC arguments, so you're not going to convince me of that one. I'd put my money on a hard working coaching staff and being located in the middle of the best recruiting territory in the country. OU can fix the former, but not the latter.

[Eielson]

Good for them! But what does that have to do with the other cats we signed that in some cases no other major programs wanted, or in some cases were only wanted by 2nd-level type programs? And no, I don't care enough to go research a list of exactly who it was.

If FSU hadn't offered this guy, it's the exact kind of guy you mentioned here:


By the way: Our most recent cornerback recruit... we pried him away from the clutches of Ball State!


But yeah, let Jimbo sign the 5-star guys. I'd rather pick up the scraps that Ball State is fighting for.

I'm showing that FSU offers some of those guys despite having their pick of many different 5 stars.

[Curly Bill]

If FSU hadn't offered this guy, it's the exact kind of guy you mentioned here:



I'm showing that FSU offers some of those guys despite having their pick of many different 5 stars.

Wow, so FSU offers one guy that fits the argument. Big freaking deal because they're also landing the very top-rated recruits also. We're landing a lot of the "reaches" and very damn few of the top-level guys like FSU is doing.

...and for the record: almost all programs sign a guy or two that might be considered reaches, that few if any other major programs offer. It's done for various reasons, but it's hard to rely increasingly on those type players if you wanna be top program like OU used to want to be.

[Eielson]

Wow, so FSU offers one guy that fits the argument. Big freaking deal because they're also landing the very top-rated recruits also. We're landing a lot of the "reaches" and very damn few of the top-level guys like FSU is doing.

...and for the record: almost all programs sign a guy or two that might be considered reaches, that few if any other major programs offer. It's done for various reasons, but it's hard to rely increasingly on those type players if you wanna be top program like OU used to want to be.

Exactly. So why is it a big deal that OU offers a couple guys like this every year?

[Curly Bill]

Exactly. So why is it a big deal that OU offers a couple guys like this every year?

The problem is it's become more than a couple, and we're more and more reliant on these type guys. Programs like FSU are doing it for kicks or whatever, we're doing it because we have to.

[Curly Bill]

Bama and FSU has been rated at the very top of recruiting classes for several years now. Precedes any PC arguments, so you're not going to convince me of that one. I'd put my money on a hard working coaching staff and being located in the middle of the best recruiting territory in the country. OU can fix the former, but not the latter.

I've already said there's a combination of things, and yet you keep harping on the PC argument - like that's the only argument I've put forth.

Are you taking the Eielson tact and just arguing in circles until you feel you've won?

[Eielson]

The problem is it's become more than a couple, and we're more and more reliant on these type guys. Programs like FSU are doing it for kicks or whatever, we're doing it because we have to.

I guess I can't say much to that if you don't want to name specific names.

In 2012, we had a high amount of 3-star, but that group included guys like Sanchez, Tapper, Williams (the RB who was invited to the combine unlike highly-recruited guys like Finch, Clay, etc.), and Bester.