Does playing not to lose ever work?

[8timechamps]

The last time we were up 14 it became blatantly obvious that we decided to play not to lose. Why?

This year has been such a disappointment, so this was a fitting way to close out the season. Not as horrible as the Baylor game, but just about equally ridiculous all the way around.

I really thought we had this one until the offensive series after the Rudolph pick in the 4th quarter. We looked so pathetic on offense, that it just felt like it was a matter of time until OSU put it away.

Changes need to be made. No question.

[BoulderSooner79]

Yes it does work sometimes. Just often enough for coaches to fall for it.

[8timechamps]

Yes it does work sometimes. Just often enough for coaches to fall for it.

True. It's kinda like going to a prevent defense too early in a game. It just prevents your defense from being effective.

[Therealsouthsider]

....it is the siren song to the hopeful, not the confident

ss

[Eielson]

Today was painful to watch, but I'll cast my vote in the "yes" category. In fact, it's worked for us a lot over the years.

It's actually K-State's entire philosophy. Snyder literally preaches that games aren't won. They're lost. I don't completely agree with him, but he's not a bad coach, and it's worked pretty well for him.

[8timechamps]

Today was painful to watch, but I'll cast my vote in the "yes" category. In fact, it's worked for us a lot over the years.

It's actually K-State's entire philosophy. Snyder literally preaches that games aren't won. They're lost. I don't completely agree with him, but he's not a bad coach, and it's worked pretty well for him.

Had Perine stayed in the game, I think that strategy does work this time. Maybe even if Ford hadn't gotten banged up. With Ross being the only back, and OSU putting 9 and 10 guys in the box, it just felt hopeless.

From an actual game play perspective, losing Perine was kinda the icing on the cake for the offense to bog down. Defensively, we just aren't very good in the secondary. For OSU to be able to score so quickly (on the drive prior to the punt return) verified that. Jordan Thomas was hung out to dry all day, and Wilson was clearly not ready to play. That last 5 minutes was brutal.

[Eielson]

Had Perine stayed in the game, I think that strategy does work this time. Maybe even if Ford hadn't gotten banged up. With Ross being the only back, and OSU putting 9 and 10 guys in the box, it just felt hopeless.

From an actual game play perspective, losing Perine was kinda the icing on the cake for the offense to bog down. Defensively, we just aren't very good in the secondary. For OSU to be able to score so quickly (on the drive prior to the punt return) verified that. Jordan Thomas was hung out to dry all day, and Wilson was clearly not ready to play. That last 5 minutes was brutal.

I absolutely agree that with the team we had out there, we needed to let the ball fly a time or two.

I don't agree with the way we played this today, but I think that we would have won easily playing "not to lose" with TK, Perine, and Shepard in there, though.

[BoulderSooner79]

....it is the siren song to the hopeful, not the confident

ss

That's the way I felt. I know I'm in the minority, but I really didn't care so much about whether we won or lost. Since this game had no real meaning in the standings or bowl placement, I was more interested in how we responded to the situation. Let the guys that are out there have a chance to make a play and maybe get an unexpected hero. If they make a mistake, maybe we lose but lessons are learned for next year. Hoping for Mr. Clock to expire before bad things happened just felt hollow.

[BlownGP]

I really thought we had this one until the offensive series after the Rudolph pick in the 4th quarter. We looked so pathetic on offense, that it just felt like it was a matter of time until OSU put it away.

Changes need to be made. No question.

Yup, after perine went down and our offesne was dead.. I felt like OSU was going to make a come back sooner or later. At least make it a closer game.

It's sad, but with the way this season has gone. Not surprised.

[8timechamps]

I absolutely agree that with the team we had out there, we needed to let the ball fly a time or two.

I don't agree with the way we played this today, but I think that we would have won easily playing "not to lose" with TK, Perine, and Shepard in there, though.

We just didn't have any skill on the field after Perine went down. He's been the savior the past few weeks, and without him, there's nobody to really pick up the slack. Ford isn't at 100%, and Ross...while a good back...isn't the guy that can take over a game.

[8timechamps]

Yup, after perine went down and our offesne was dead.. I felt like OSU was going to make a come sooner or later. At least make it a closer game.

It's sad, but with the way this season has gone. Not surprised.

We were a different team with Perine in the game. When he went down, we were headed in to go up by 21. If we score on that drive, I think OSU is done and the game ends. With the fumble, it gave OSU life and they took full advantage.

I'll watch the bowl game, because I can't stop being a fan. But, for the first time in a while, I'm glad this season is almost over.

[BlownGP]

We were a different team with Perine in the game. When he went down, we were headed in to go up by 21. If we score on that drive, I think OSU is done and the game ends. With the fumble, it gave OSU life and they took full advantage.

I'll watch the bowl game, because I can't stop being a fan. But, for the first time in a while, I'm glad this season is almost over.

Yeah, especially with no Shepherd and a QB who probably couldn't get it to him anyways.

After the 3rd qtr I was ready for the game to be over with. Seemed like the time clock was going so Slooow..lol

[Piware]

We were a different team with Perine in the game. When he went down, we were headed in to go up by 21. If we score on that drive, I think OSU is done and the game ends. With the fumble, it gave OSU life and they took full advantage.

I'll watch the bowl game, because I can't stop being a fan. But, for the first time in a while, I'm glad this season is almost over.

What 8time said.

[OUmillenium]

We were a different team with Perine in the game. When he went down, we were headed in to go up by 21. If we score on that drive, I think OSU is done and the game ends. With the fumble, it gave OSU life and they took full advantage.

I'll watch the bowl game, because I can't stop being a fan. But, for the first time in a while, I'm glad this season is almost over.

This

[Blue]

Whats to discuss Sunshine brothers? Our team is unbelievably unprepared and uncoached. They suck and we have no playmakers. Our QB is unbelievably terrible and that's on our coaches.

Sick of them and our non existent defense. Enough!

[SicEmBaylor]

Playing not to lose has been his problem since the 'Game Which Shall Not Be Named.'

[Sooner70]

If you're playing not to lose, why wouldn't you take the roughing the kicker penalty, and try & kick it thru the endzone ? Give them the ball on the 25 with little time left, force the pass play. Understand OU has one of worst pass defenses in CFB (#114), but actually they'd been covering the receivers pretty well at this point & Rudolph could 't find anybody open that could catch it.

For dang sure, don't punt it to the fastest guy on the field and hope for the best. That is what seems not playing it safe to me. I can hear Stoops now on his Blevins FB show....."....our guy didn't take the right angle....", "....we busted our coverage scheme...", " ...we let him get outside....". or some such thing. The ball should've never went that direction. Dumb.

[SicEmBaylor]

If you're playing not to lose, why wouldn't you take the roughing the kicker penalty, and try & kick it thru the endzone ? Give them the ball on the 25 with little time left, force the pass play. Understand OU has one of worst pass defenses in CFB (#114), but actually they'd been covering the receivers pretty well at this point & Rudolph could 't find anybody open that could catch it.

For dang sure, don't punt it to the fastest guy on the field and hope for the best. That is what seems not playing it safe to me. I can hear Stoops now on his Blevins FB show....."....our guy didn't take the right angle....", "....we busted our coverage scheme...", " ...we let him get outside....". or some such thing. The ball should've never went that direction. Dumb.

I think you're confusing not playing it safe with playing it stupid. It's like his decision to call that timeout at the end of the 2011 Baylor game -- it was stupendously stupid. It wasn't being aggressive....it was just being dumb.

Dumb clock management and declining penalties isn't the same as being more aggressive.

[aurorasooner]

Whats to discuss Sunshine brothers? Our team is unbelievably unprepared and uncoached. They suck and we have no playmakers. Our QB is unbelievably terrible and that's on our coaches.

Sick of them and our non existent defense. Enough!What's really sad is that most of the Sooner fans that gave up their tickets to the Kansas game because they were fed up and thus missed Perine's record breaking day, came back to Owen Field only to witness this pitiful abortion.
We finally got some positive national PR this year and just like the Sugar Bowl win, it's now completely gone. It's got be a complete headache for the Sooner athletic administration and especially for our PR spin machine.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

The last time we were up 14 it became blatantly obvious that we decided to play not to lose. Why?

This year has been such a disappointment, so this was a fitting way to close out the season. Not as horrible as the Baylor game, but just about equally ridiculous all the way around.

I really thought we had this one until the offensive series after the Rudolph pick in the 4th quarter. We looked so pathetic on offense, that it just felt like it was a matter of time until OSU put it away.

Changes need to be made. No question.



8time you've been a part of the debates before about recruiting/talent level, which I'm still contending has been a significant factor in our decline. We can talk all day about the coaching (which most threads are focused on today) but I still see lack of talent as a big issue. How can if be that mighty Oklahoma has at best, only the #4 QB in the conference. And when he goes down, it looks like we've got guys to step in who never played the position. Since Landry came to town, the school with the best QBs in the country for a decade hasn't had anyone. We haven't simply dropped back to "just good" or "average", we've been weak. And how long has it been since we've had anyone on the defense who you would call a physical stud? Our best defender is a CB with arms that look like pencils. Other than Mixon, when was the last time we got a really high profile recruit? Gerald McCoy in 2005 or whenever? There are at least 10 schools who have easily outdone us (per Rivals ranking which I know you don't regard as the bible) over the past 7 or 8 years, and I don't see any indication that it is changing

[cherokeebrewer]

I'd rather go down in a blaze of glory than to play 'not to lose'

And if we don't trust the QB to throw it, we don't have a QB...The re-kick was mind-numbing.

[beached_sooner]

Whats to discuss Sunshine brothers? Our team is unbelievably unprepared and uncoached. They suck and we have no playmakers. Our QB is unbelievably terrible and that's on our coaches.

Sick of them and our non existent defense. Enough!

This ... and throw in the abysmal recruiting too.

[8timechamps]

8time you've been a part of the debates before about recruiting/talent level, which I'm still contending has been a significant factor in our decline. We can talk all day about the coaching (which most threads are focused on today) but I still see lack of talent as a big issue. How can if be that mighty Oklahoma has at best, only the #4 QB in the conference. And when he goes down, it looks like we've got guys to step in who never played the position. Since Landry came to town, the school with the best QBs in the country for a decade hasn't had anyone. We haven't simply dropped back to "just good" or "average", we've been weak. And how long has it been since we've had anyone on the defense who you would call a physical stud? Our best defender is a CB with arms that look like pencils. Other than Mixon, when was the last time we got a really high profile recruit? Gerald McCoy in 2005 or whenever? There are at least 10 schools who have easily outdone us (per Rivals ranking which I know you don't regard as the bible) over the past 7 or 8 years, and I don't see any indication that it is changing

I think it's obvious that Heupel missed somewhere along the way at the QB spot. I think it all started when Bell started running the Bell Dozer, and the thought (among the coaches) became "well, Bell will take over after Landry is gone". At some point, Knight began impressing in practice and that turned into a starting position for him. Rather than Bell playing a back up role, he moved to TE and left a hole behind TK. I don't think any of this has anything to do with Bell or Knight, it's the way it worked out, but the fact that the 'new' back up (Thomas) wasn't ready to go is completely on Heupel/Stoops. Thomas may end up being a great QB, but at this point he's not. In the end, I think the Bell experiment hurt more than it helped. Again, that doesn't have anything to do with Bell, it's got everything to do with the coaches.

In the secondary we're not good. A lot of that has to do with playing two true freshmen and a couple of guys that had never seen any meaningful time. You're asking for issues when you put yourself in that situation. Unfortunately, the scheme didn't do them any favors. Sanchez is very good, when he's healthy. Wilson never materialized at CB and the other guys are so young inexperienced that it created a ton of issues.

I can't remember the last time we landed a 5 star player (other than Mixon), it may have not been since McCoy. We have continued to bring in highly rated guys (Perine and Parker are the most resent that are contributors).

I firmly believe we have the talent to win. Look at TCU and Baylor as an example of teams that continually recruit below OU. They recruit players that fit their system, and it works. I think we do the same thing, but this year we got caught with our pants down. Some of it has to do with previous coaches that either sucked at finding the right players, or found the right players and failed to develop them. But, I don't think our recruiting is the issue.

If you want to look ahead a little (and I know that's hard to do right now), Bedenbaugh is quietly building an incredible group of linemen. He's got a few studs already on the roster and this year could be one of the best linemen classes we've seen in years. Montgomery is doing the same thing.

This season boiled down to young, inexperienced players being asked to do things they weren't ready for. We do have talent on this team, but it's a process.

[hawaii 5-0]

Predictable play calling down the stretch and depending on freshmen to carry the load on both sides of the ball cost us dearly.

Painful to watch, yet I had to see it through.

5-0

[SoonerorLater]

Does playing not to lose ever work? It usually works, just not for the team doing it.

[Salt City Sooner]

I think it's obvious that Heupel missed somewhere along the way at the QB spot. I think it all started when Bell started running the Bell Dozer, and the thought (among the coaches) became "well, Bell will take over after Landry is gone". At some point, Knight began impressing in practice and that turned into a starting position for him. Rather than Bell playing a back up role, he moved to TE and left a hole behind TK. I don't think any of this has anything to do with Bell or Knight, it's the way it worked out, but the fact that the 'new' back up (Thomas) wasn't ready to go is completely on Heupel/Stoops. Thomas may end up being a great QB, but at this point he's not. In the end, I think the Bell experiment hurt more than it helped. Again, that doesn't have anything to do with Bell, it's got everything to do with the coaches.

In the secondary we're not good. A lot of that has to do with playing two true freshmen and a couple of guys that had never seen any meaningful time. You're asking for issues when you put yourself in that situation. Unfortunately, the scheme didn't do them any favors. Sanchez is very good, when he's healthy. Wilson never materialized at CB and the other guys are so young inexperienced that it created a ton of issues.

I can't remember the last time we landed a 5 star player (other than Mixon), it may have not been since McCoy. We have continued to bring in highly rated guys (Perine and Parker are the most resent that are contributors).

I firmly believe we have the talent to win. Look at TCU and Baylor as an example of teams that continually recruit below OU. They recruit players that fit their system, and it works. I think we do the same thing, but this year we got caught with our pants down. Some of it has to do with previous coaches that either sucked at finding the right players, or found the right players and failed to develop them. But, I don't think our recruiting is the issue.

If you want to look ahead a little (and I know that's hard to do right now), Bedenbaugh is quietly building an incredible group of linemen. He's got a few studs already on the roster and this year could be one of the best linemen classes we've seen in years. Montgomery is doing the same thing.

This season boiled down to young, inexperienced players being asked to do things they weren't ready for. We do have talent on this team, but it's a process.
Trey Metoyer was a 5 star on both Rivals & Scout. Keith Ford was a 5 star on Scout (4 star on Rivals)

[BoulderSooner79]

Trey Metoyer was a 5 star on both Rivals & Scout. Keith Ford was a 5 star on Scout (4 star on Rivals)

Metoyer was better than that - he gave us our only 5 star 2 years in a row!!

But then he just never showed us what he had. Or, he did show us too much of what he had? There was some problem there as I recall.

[SoonerorLater]

Metoyer was better than that - he gave us our only 5 star 2 years in a row!!

But then he just never showed us what he had. Or, he did show us too much of what he had? There was some problem there as I recall.

Yes I was as shocked as anybody. I thought Metoyer was a stand up guy but as it turns out he was hanging out with the wrong people.

[8timechamps]

Trey Metoyer was a 5 star on both Rivals & Scout. Keith Ford was a 5 star on Scout (4 star on Rivals)

You're right, both were 5 stars with some services.

Honestly, I don't buy much into the services rankings, but that's for a different thread. My point was more about having the talent (and contrary to popular belief, we've continued to recruit well) to win.