Reported On The Newswire Board: Knight Out Against OSU

[FaninAma]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?185317-CFT-No-OU-OSU-for-Sooners-QB-Knight

I wonder if Shepard is going to play.

[badger]

Yeah, Knight's out Saturday. Stoops said he's hopeful that he can return for the bowl game. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ousportsextra/blog/ou-sports-three-takeaways-from-bob-stoops-press-conference/article_79fc6a8d-a2ac-5881-83b1-596adac04446.html)

Even though Gundy will play coy (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/osu-sports-rudolph-or-garman-in-bedlam-game-time-decision/article_6e5914b4-0fde-5a6e-bd1f-7d22ad26d4ec.html), it would be very sad for Mason to get a redshirt yanked for a loss at Baylor and nothing else, so expect the new guy to start at qb for them too.

[rock on sooner]

Prolly same type game plan as last game...CT passes 12-15 times, just to
"keep 'em honest" and Perine, Ross, Brooks and Smith do the legwork. Big
question in my mind has two parts...will Ford carry the ball again this year
and is he a candidate to transfer? Mixon is on board for next year, Perine
holds on to the ball and, if Brooks can avoid tripping over the chalk lines,
with Ross getting a bunch of PT...on kicks and giving Perine a breather....
just doesn't look rosy for Ford......just a thought...

[8timechamps]

Stoops said "nothing's changed" with Shepard, and he'll just have to wait and see if he can go full speed. I think we win comfortably without Shep, so I wouldn't mind seeing him sit out this game...but, if he can go, I'm sure he will.

I'll be shocked if Knight returns this season. I'm sure he's still dealing with swelling/spasms/pain in the area of injury, I'd like to see him get well and focus on coming back in the spring.

Like rock on sooner said, the game plan should be the same thing we saw in the second half of the Tech game and all of the KU game. It seems to work just fine.

[Eielson]

**** you Baylor.

[Eielson]

I wouldn't be shocked if Bell made another second half appearance at QB.

[badger]

I wouldn't be shocked if Bell made another second half appearance at QB.

Sadly, we'll be on our home turf this time around, so no angry turkey legs will descend from the stands upon victory, nor will any cheerleaders being attempting to trip our guys up from the endlines :stunned:

If Belldozer beats Poke three times, we may have to rename it Belldlam. haha lame yes i know shaddap

[KantoSooner]

**** you Baylor.

Yes. A million times yes.

But, as they say, Karma's a bitch and what goes around comes around. So, now Baylor gets to wonder if their starter can go on Saturday as the result of a dirty hit. And if he can't, then there go their chances to make the playoffs and buh bye to Petty's college career.

[BoulderSooner79]

No real news here - it would have been news if TK could play.

I would rather see Cody get an expanded passing role in this game if conditions are favorable. But alas, the long range forecast is showing another windy day as it was in Lubbock. If that's the case, I don't see a lot to be learned other than being a QB is hard. My next wish it that's it just a great day for the seniors that concludes with a 'W'.

[SoonerForLife92]

Prolly same type game plan as last game...CT passes 12-15 times, just to
"keep 'em honest" and Perine, Ross, Brooks and Smith do the legwork. Big
question in my mind has two parts...will Ford carry the ball again this year
and is he a candidate to transfer? Mixon is on board for next year, Perine
holds on to the ball and, if Brooks can avoid tripping over the chalk lines,
with Ross getting a bunch of PT...on kicks and giving Perine a breather....
just doesn't look rosy for Ford......just a thought...

Ford may have fumbled twice last game but I don't think it's fair to judge him only on that.

I have to disagaree with you here. Barring his injury holding him back.. he is still our best RB imo. You can say everything you want about Perine, which is justified, but he still averaged 3.6 ypc between the two best defenses we have played. Perine could easily become better than Ford but I believe as of right now Ford clearly has the better running vision with running style that can be both shifty and punishing. This is all assuming Ford's injury doesn't affect him Dom Whaley style and he can hold onto the ball better.

[freshchris05]

If Ford does have more than 2 carries this weekend it'll go against what we've seen from the staff in recent years.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I wonder if TK's playing days are done given the references in articles that some people's playing careers were ended with this type of injury. I hope for a full and speedy recovery.

[rock on sooner]

Ford may have fumbled twice last game but I don't think it's fair to judge him only on that.

I have to disagaree with you here. Barring his injury holding him back.. he is still our best RB imo. You can say everything you want about Perine, which is justified, but he still averaged 3.6 ypc between the two best defenses we have played. Perine could easily become better than Ford but I believe as of right now Ford clearly has the better running vision with running style that can be both shifty and punishing. This is all assuming Ford's injury doesn't affect him Dom Whaley style and he can hold onto the ball better.

I'm not judging him on those two fumbles...alone...I look back to last year...6 carries
vs Texas and a fumble, a fumble vs KU and fumbles during spring practices. He is an
impressive runner but the way he carries the ball away from his body makes him fumble
prone....helmut on the ball, strip moves, etc....that's all I'm sayin' Fer Pete's sake, I
want the boy to succeed, but I want the Sooners as a team to succeed and that's hard
to do when the RB fumbles......

[David Earl]

Regarding Ford, I'm inclined to think the fumbles are enough of a problem that his playing time will be sorely limited. He is a great all purpose back, seems to have good vision, runs strong, has good speed... I hope Coach Cale is able to help him with ball security.

I guess this is a stupid question, but could he be some sort of hybrid safety type player on defense?

Regarding Knight, I've feared from the start his football days are done. I hate it for him, but I also hate to see these kids risk future health for a game.

[olevetonahill]

Yes. A million times yes.

But, as they say, Karma's a bitch and what goes around comes around. So, now Baylor gets to wonder if their starter can go on Saturday as the result of a dirty hit. And if he can't, then there go their chances to make the playoffs and buh bye to Petty's college career.

Yea I want to say it serves em right , But I hate it another kid is hurt .

[dwarthog]

Regarding Ford, I'm inclined to think the fumbles are enough of a problem that his playing time will be sorely limited. He is a great all purpose back, seems to have good vision, runs strong, has good speed... I hope Coach Cale is able to help him with ball security.

I guess this is a stupid question, but could he be some sort of hybrid safety type player on defense?

Regarding Knight, I've feared from the start his football days are done. I hate it for him, but I also hate to see these kids risk future health for a game.

Stoops was questioned about Ford and the fumbles yesterday in his presser. To state an already obvious point, he takes a pretty dim view of fumbles and did point out that one of those fumbles cost the team a shutout.

I suspect Ford is on a very short rope. Stoops wouldn't even give him a break due to the conditions being tough.

[KantoSooner]

I wish nothing but the best for Brice Petty. But the facts are now beyond dispute: Baylor not only encourages but positively coaches and includes in its game planning the use of illegal defensive moves with a likelihood to cause injury. We've now seen it in their secondary and on their line over the course of several seasons running. It's not a one player thing and if it is not coming from the top, then it is not being stopped by Briles either.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ford may have fumbled twice last game but I don't think it's fair to judge him only on that.

I have to disagaree with you here. Barring his injury holding him back.. he is still our best RB imo. You can say everything you want about Perine, which is justified, but he still averaged 3.6 ypc between the two best defenses we have played. Perine could easily become better than Ford but I believe as of right now Ford clearly has the better running vision with running style that can be both shifty and punishing. This is all assuming Ford's injury doesn't affect him Dom Whaley style and he can hold onto the ball better.

Not to disagree too much here, but Ford's vision only comes into effect when he has a hole the size of Texas to run through. When he has a narrow crease, he just runs in a straight line (which is why he keeps coughing the ball up, so much easier to hit a specific spot on a guy who is running like that). That being said, he is a much better runner against good defenses because he takes the first open hole and tries to gash it. Perine has a tendency to wait for stuff to develop and against good defenses that might not happen.

[BoulderSooner79]

I wish nothing but the best for Brice Petty. But the facts are now beyond dispute: Baylor not only encourages but positively coaches and includes in its game planning the use of illegal defensive moves with a likelihood to cause injury. We've now seen it in their secondary and on their line over the course of several seasons running. It's not a one player thing and if it is not coming from the top, then it is not being stopped by Briles either.

Did the TTech player get tossed for targeting? I didn't see the game, but I saw the replay and it was clearly helmet to the noggin, but the announcer was just discussing Petty being out. Thanks.

[SoonerForLife92]

I'm not judging him on those two fumbles...alone...I look back to last year...6 carries
vs Texas and a fumble, a fumble vs KU and fumbles during spring practices. He is an
impressive runner but the way he carries the ball away from his body makes him fumble
prone....helmut on the ball, strip moves, etc....that's all I'm sayin' Fer Pete's sake, I
want the boy to succeed, but I want the Sooners as a team to succeed and that's hard
to do when the RB fumbles......

Well you're right. I really hope he can get it under control though because he still has the best running vision in my opinion

[KantoSooner]

Did the TTech player get tossed for targeting? I didn't see the game, but I saw the replay and it was clearly helmet to the noggin, but the announcer was just discussing Petty being out. Thanks.
Don't think so, but I was in and out of the room, so I could be wrong.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yes. A million times yes.

But, as they say, Karma's a bitch and what goes around comes around. So, now Baylor gets to wonder if their starter can go on Saturday as the result of a dirty hit. And if he can't, then there go their chances to make the playoffs and buh bye to Petty's college career.

The hit against Knight was not dirty.

[cvsooner]

The hit against Knight was not dirty.

Looked dirty to me. As did the shin/knee/foot thing on Mahomes and the slap to the helmet. Deny it all you want, but Oakman is another Ndamakong Suh. Talented but dirty.

[cvsooner]

Ratings are out: Alabama, Oregon, TCU and Florida State. tOSU and Brazos U. are below.

[8timechamps]

The hit against Knight was not dirty.

Oh, it was dirty. There was no reason for Oakman to put his forearm anywhere near Knight's head. He may not intentionally play dirty, but he makes a lot of dirty plays.

[Eielson]

The hit against Knight was not dirty.

False.

It's not as bad as the hit that threatened to end Shepard's career last year, though, so you there's that.

[BoulderSooner79]

The hit against Knight was not dirty.

Guess that depends on how one classifies a forearm shiver.

[rock on sooner]

Oh, it was dirty. There was no reason for Oakman to put his forearm anywhere near Knight's head. He may not intentionally play dirty, but he makes a lot of dirty plays.

How can anyone argue that Oakman didn't try to do damage?
CLEARLY, he went down with his forearm coming up under TK's
chin!!! I was a skinny gunner on kickoffs and had the same dayum
type of hit....absolutely no way that wasn't intentional....Sicem prolly
never felt a forearm shiver...jus guessin...mind you...jus guessin'...

[cvsooner]

It's not just the Knight hit. Oakman has a history of playing like this ever since he transferred from Penn State (where he was kicked off the team for attempting to take a sandwich and a drink from a store without paying). Look at the Tech game for the latest examples.

[SicEmBaylor]

Looked dirty to me. As did the shin/knee/foot thing on Mahomes and the slap to the helmet. Deny it all you want, but Oakman is another Ndamakong Suh. Talented but dirty.

The knee thing last week is the only overtly indefensible action I've ever seen from Oakman or anyone else on our defense.

[KantoSooner]

The hit against Knight was not dirty.

That statement ranks up there with:

"Toss me that piano"
and

"My, you've got a handsome scrotum"

as statements never made by a sane person.

Did you watch the game? Or are you joking?

It was a dirty hit that was clearly intended to injure. It's not even vaguely debatable. Congrats, Baylor under Briles has become Miami circa 1985, Thug U. Kind or ironic with the whole 'holier than thou' thing cultivated by many who attend there.

[badger]

Congrats, Baylor under Briles has become Miami circa 1985, Thug U. Kind or ironic with the whole 'holier than thou' thing cultivated by many who attend there.

It's gotten them quite far. I mean, last year they were national champions* after winning a BCS bowl* and this year they're undefeated* and will win this season's undisputed Big 12 title* and are a shoo-in for the first-ever college football playoff* and Bryce Petty will win the Heisman*

*lol

[FaninAma]

The knee thing last week is the only overtly indefensible action I've ever seen from Oakman or anyone else on our defense.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ....oh wait, you're serious.

Every single person I talked to while watching CFB games over the Thanksgiving holidays thought Baylor was a dirty football team. Most of them were Nebraska fans who have no dog in this fight. You may despise the TCU coach but he has a legitimate point. IMO, Baylor's pathetic non-coference schedule and their reputation for questionable play on the field will keep them out of the playoffs.

Sic 'em, I like you man but seriously, Briles needs to get control of his players. I don't care for Gary Patterson much but you don't see OU fans carping about his team being dirty. We hate Texas but I can't remember this issue every coming up in discussions about their program. Same about KSU meven after they punished Jason White in the 2003 Big 12 CCG.

[swardboy]

Note my entry on Sooner Recruiting. We're bringing in a QB recruit for the Bedlam game. Might portend that Knight's career is at least very tenuous.

[FaninAma]

Note my entry on Sooner Recruiting. We're bringing in a QB recruit for the OU-OSU game. Might portend that Knight's career is at least very tenuous.


There are a lot of rumors floating around to that effect. Nice job Oakman.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Same about KSU meven after they punished Jason White in the 2003 Big 12 CCG.

um what? In 2000/2001/2002 they had like 6 personal fouls for roughing the QB. They practically put Nate Hybl into a body cast AFTER the whistle.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Ford may have fumbled twice last game but I don't think it's fair to judge him only on that.

I have to disagaree with you here. Barring his injury holding him back.. he is still our best RB imo. You can say everything you want about Perine, which is justified, but he still averaged 3.6 ypc between the two best defenses we have played. Perine could easily become better than Ford but I believe as of right now Ford clearly has the better running vision with running style that can be both shifty and punishing. This is all assuming Ford's injury doesn't affect him Dom Whaley style and he can hold onto the ball better.

Is marijuana legal in your state or something? Perine is already better than Ford...and, it isn't even close.

[Tear Down This Wall]

um what? In 2000/2001/2002 they had like 6 personal fouls for roughing the QB. They practically put Nate Hybl into a body cast AFTER the whistle.

One of those TD passes Nate threw in that 2001 K-State game, I don't know how he got up. If they had the same rules in place back then as they do now, half of K-State's defense would have been ejected from the game for helmet-to-helmet hits on Nate.

And, that is why I always loved Nate - you could run over that kid with a truck, and he'd get up and be ready for the next play.

I don't know that we've seen a tougher son of a b*tch at QB than Nate. Maybe Mildren.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-R1Jf9a9TM

Roughing the passer against Nate at 3:10 on a TD pass. The big hit at about 5:45 of the video...still finished out that game. Crazy.

Video also has a couple of textbook Roy Williams horsecollar tackles.

Great game. I remember the atmosphere was tense because, along with it being a Top 10 match up of Stoops vs. Snyder, it was also the first weekend after 9/11. As an added bonus, the SOBs next to me sold their tickets to that game to K-State fans...so, we had to deal with that as well. Sell 'em to Sooner fans, fellow season ticket holders; their money spends just the same as the enemy's.

[BoulderSooner79]

Is marijuana legal in your state or something? Perine is already better than Ford...and, it isn't even close.

Have to agree on that one and marijuana is legal in the state (I used to) live in. Ford is no where close to be where Ford should be due to injury and lack of carries. Perine is proven and so far advanced on his development curve, a Ford/Perine comparison doesn't even make sense.

[Eielson]

The knee thing last week is the only overtly indefensible action I've ever seen from Oakman or anyone else on our defense.

You're just trolling.

Well done.

[Eielson]

Have to agree on that one and marijuana is legal in the state (I used to) live in. Ford is no where close to be where Ford should be due to injury and lack of carries. Perine is proven and so far advanced on his development curve, a Ford/Perine comparison doesn't even make sense.

Perine beats up on easy competition. As a true freshman, that's still very impressive, but he's done nothing against good defenses.

25 carries for 87 yards against TCU
18 carries for 62 yards against Texas
24 carries for 89 yards against KSU
5 carries for 21 yards against Baylor

Ford would be much better against top competition if he could stay healthy and hold on to the ball. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever be able to do either, so we'll probably have to look in other directions.

I never thought I would say this, but Ross needs to get more carries. He was awful all the way through the Texas game, but he's been becoming our best RB as of late. He was our best RB against K-State, ISU, and Baylor. I want to beat teams like K-State and Baylor (and TCU). I'm not as interested in whooping up on teams like Kansas.

[BoulderSooner79]

Perine beats up on easy competition. As a true freshman, that's still very impressive, but he's done nothing against good defenses.

25 carries for 87 yards against TCU
18 carries for 62 yards against Texas
24 carries for 89 yards against KSU
5 carries for 21 yards against Baylor

Ford would be much better against top competition if he could stay healthy and hold on to the ball. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever be able to do either, so we'll probably have to look in other directions.

I never thought I would say this, but Ross needs to get more carries. He was awful all the way through the Texas game, but he's been becoming our best RB as of late. He was our best RB against K-State, ISU, and Baylor. I want to beat teams like K-State and Baylor (and TCU). I'm not as interested in whooping up on teams like Kansas.

I agree Perine's number are greatly inflated due to weak competition. That may be as much a comment on our OL as it is on Perine. But he is clearly an excellent back and has improved with each game. That 4th down fail against TCU was partly his fault and I would bet real money he would get the 1st down if the situation were repeated. Have to remember he is a true FR.

Your comment on Ford is circular - like saying he would be a good back if he were a good back (and you doubt it). The fumbles are a real concern since this is his 2nd year in the program. Injuries happen and it could have been just a fluke. But the layoff clearly set him back as he is not running as well as he did to start the year. I'm certainly not assuming he is a lost cause, but we probably won't know until next year.

I agree that Ross has improved and just has a knack for making big plays. Without his KO returns we may have been in trouble against WVU and almost certainly would have been in trouble against the horns. That big run on 3rd and 20 against KSU when TK was out of the game was huge and would have saved a win if we didn't mess up 2 short field goals and and an extra point. I don't see Ross as an every down back, but a great change of pace. And if he gets 8-10 touches he is bound to break a big one. Maybe he gets Fords touches for the next 2 games while Ford is in the doghouse.

[Eielson]

I agree Perine's number are greatly inflated due to weak competition. That may be as much a comment on our OL as it is on Perine. But he is clearly an excellent back and has improved with each game. That 4th down fail against TCU was partly his fault and I would bet real money he would get the 1st down if the situation were repeated. Have to remember he is a true FR.

It's not just the OL. Perine uses the same line that our other backs use, and yet he's the one who is dominating bad defenses. That's very useful. Somebody suggested that it's because Perine waits for the holes to open, while guys like Ford just hit the hole as quickly as they can. Against weak competition, this obviously favors Perine, as the holes should eventually open up on most plays. Against teams like Texas and TCU, though, the hole may never be there, so if you see a slight crease, you have to hit it.


Your comment on Ford is circular - like saying he would be a good back if he were a good back (and you doubt it). The fumbles are a real concern since this is his 2nd year in the program. Injuries happen and it could have been just a fluke. But the layoff clearly set him back as he is not running as well as he did to start the year. I'm certainly not assuming he is a lost cause, but we probably won't know until next year.

I strongly disagree here on the circularity. He's a good back when he's healthy. The fact that he's not healthy doesn't mean he's not a good back. It just means he's not usually available.


I agree that Ross has improved and just has a knack for making big plays. Without his KO returns we may have been in trouble against WVU and almost certainly would have been in trouble against the horns. That big run on 3rd and 20 against KSU when TK was out of the game was huge and would have saved a win if we didn't mess up 2 short field goals and and an extra point. I don't see Ross as an every down back, but a great change of pace. And if he gets 8-10 touches he is bound to break a big one. Maybe he gets Fords touches for the next 2 games while Ford is in the doghouse.

I hated Ross at the beginning of the year, because he was a boom or bust RB. He'd break an 80 yarder, and then follow that up with 10 straight carries of 2 yards or less. Statistically it looks alright, and the 80 yarder can change the momentum of the game, but those carries for no gain can quickly kill a drive. He's still a boom or bust kind of back, and I'd imagine he'll always be to some extent, but he's been a lot more boom than bust as of late.

[BoulderSooner79]

Okay, not circular. How about Ford would be a good back if he could do the critical task of hanging onto the ball more often? The injury thing and staying on the field applies to all players, of course. But no back is a good back if he fumbles too much - it's just part of the definition.

[soonergirlNeugene]

The nice thing about Ross is that he can catch the ball well. There is a premium on Sooners who can do that this season.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The nice thing about Ross is that he can catch the ball well. There is a premium on Sooners who can do that this season.

So, geniuses, why didn't Ross or Ford run for 200+ or 400+ against the easier competition? It's not as thought they've started Perine in the majority of games. Our coaches are too stupid to do the obvious.

So, explain. After Quarter #1 against Kansas, Ford had more carries. So, why wasn't Ford having a big day? Some sort of conspiracy by the linemen to only block well for Perine?

[badger]

So, geniuses
Genius present. I suspect there's a Ross injury that has not been leaking publicly. Otherwise, why isn't he returning punts as well as kickoffs while Sterling is injured? Why didn't he get to share carries against helpless Kansas when Ford was fumbling?

I am totally fine with team info not leaking publicly, as it would be a strategic advantage to not wave our poker hand for all Pokes to see before Saturday. Then again, does anyone doubt that Perine will get 500+ carries? [hairGel]

[FaninAma]

So, geniuses, why didn't Ross or Ford run for 200+ or 400+ against the easier competition? It's not as thought they've started Perine in the majority of games. Our coaches are too stupid to do the obvious.

So, explain. After Quarter #1 against Kansas, Ford had more carries. So, why wasn't Ford having a big day? Some sort of conspiracy by the linemen to only block well for Perine?

I have always felt that some great athletes possess a trait that separates them form the good or average athletes beyond mere physical talent like speed, size and quickness. I maintain that the truly great athletes in every sport possess a visual-spatial brain capability that allows them to see the field as well as allowing the game to slow down so that it becomes easier to play. I think this capability translates into the ability to "see the field" as some often state. But I also think it gives these athletes in the skill sports like baseball and tennis, an increased hand-eye coordination capability which translates into superior muscle memory which in turn leads to a higher skill level in the sport.

You can just see this in athletes like Tiger Woods, Madison Bumgarner and some of the great hitters in baseball. Babe Ruth looked like anything other than an awe inspiring athlete but he had hitting(and pitching) skills rarely seen in baseball. I understand physical talent certainly helps but there are a lot of physical specimen freaks who don't excel or reach the expected high level of achievement in the NFL and MLB. And you cannot discount work ethic and desire. It is the special athlete that possesses all 3 qualties that stand out.

In football this ability allows some runners to see the holes others miss. It allows QBs to see and anticipate receivers down field. I think Sam Bradford has this ability in spades and will be a great NFL QB because of it if he can ever stay healthy. I have a strong feeling that Perine possesses this skill. I guess time will tell.

[KantoSooner]

There was a guy at UC Davis in the late 1970's who was doing research into levels of concentration and whether it was truly possible to train yourself to enter 'the zone' voluntarily. He used as subjects extreme surfers and white water kayakers on the theory that they both knew that a fairly mundane mistake meant serious injury or death. I think his name was Robert Watters, but I'm not sure. Although it ultimately failed to provide a drug- or practice-based path to getting there (and, since it was the '70's, he did do some nice work with hallucinogens, hypnotics and adrenaline), he did come up with some interesting stuff among which was that a whole lot of what highly trained athletes do in the moment is completely sub-conscious, leaving their conscious brains free to deal with the 'big picture'. I'll see if I can find any papers; it's not the sort of thing UC would have put out on a data-base as I believe he left their employ, gasp, under a cloud.

[8timechamps]

Knight's career isn't over. That's a message board rumor that's gotten widespread attention.

First, his cousin (who posts on a different board) already debunked the rumor. Secondly, Stoops has already said he thinks Knight could be back as soon as the bowl game, and that the check-ups are going great and Knight is doing well.

The kid we're bringing in for the OU/OSU game is the kid that Mississippi State just screwed out of a scholarship. Heupel has always taken a QB in every class, and the other offers didn't seem to pan out. I don't think there's any urgency to get a QB in this class, but it's worth taking a shot at the kid if he's interested.

[Breadburner]

Knight needs to stay on the bench.....

[Eielson]

Okay, not circular. How about Ford would be a good back if he could do the critical task of hanging onto the ball more often? The injury thing and staying on the field applies to all players, of course. But no back is a good back if he fumbles too much - it's just part of the definition.

True. But I don't put fumbling in the category of speed, size, vision, hands, etc. Everybody should be able to hold onto the ball. It should be something that's easy to correct, but it's his 2nd year, and he's still struggling with it, so I'm not confident it will every be fixed. It's not like I said he'd be a great receiver if he were 5 inches taller.

[8timechamps]

Knight needs to stay on the bench.....

I'll be shocked if he returns before the spring.

[BoulderSooner79]

True. But I don't put fumbling in the category of speed, size, vision, hands, etc. Everybody should be able to hold onto the ball. It should be something that's easy to correct, but it's his 2nd year, and he's still struggling with it, so I'm not confident it will every be fixed. It's not like I said he'd be a great receiver if he were 5 inches taller.

I wasn't questioning his combine metrics. But even just considering Ford's pure running skills, the sample set is very small. And none of those carries came against really good competition except for a couple in the Sugar bowl last year. The Vols were decent, but hardly a good team and Ford missed all our critical tests (that we failed). We've seen flashes and he did win the starting job (but only because our coaches are idiots, apparently), so I don't doubt there is potential there. But if he resorts to instincts when running and that includes how he protects the ball, it won't matter and I define that as not being a good back.

[birddog]

Ford has a unique skill set. People instantly became enamored with his willingness to take on defenders when he hits the hole. He can also catch the ball pretty well on swings etc. I DO think the fumbling can be corrected but when you see Perine with that many carries without a fumble it's easy to go with the reliable freshman that owns the record for yards in a game.

As far as knight, if he plateaus like Landry he won't be our starter for long, not with the offense we try to run.

[SoonerForLife92]

Is marijuana legal in your state or something? Perine is already better than Ford...and, it isn't even close.

I've lived in Norman my entire life. I said this is assuming Ford can hold onto the ball and he recovers well from his injury (which he was still doing in the Kansas game). It is close whether you want to see it or not (assuming the things I said, which could be a big assumption i'll give you that). I won't post Perine's stats from the good defenses we have played as others have already done that. I think Ford still has better running vision (at least he used to)... but Perine is for sure better than Ford at the moment, I already conceded that fact. Learn to read all the posts in the thread.

[cvsooner]

Ford's a good back but his timing and rhythm are off. Hasn't quite learned to trust his leg yet and may not be 100 percent still. The fumbling is a bigger issue at the moment, but with people like Mixon and Brooks awaiting a turn, he's going to have to get it fixed.

[FaninAma]

There was a guy at UC Davis in the late 1970's who was doing research into levels of concentration and whether it was truly possible to train yourself to enter 'the zone' voluntarily. He used as subjects extreme surfers and white water kayakers on the theory that they both knew that a fairly mundane mistake meant serious injury or death. I think his name was Robert Watters, but I'm not sure. Although it ultimately failed to provide a drug- or practice-based path to getting there (and, since it was the '70's, he did do some nice work with hallucinogens, hypnotics and adrenaline), he did come up with some interesting stuff among which was that a whole lot of what highly trained athletes do in the moment is completely sub-conscious, leaving their conscious brains free to deal with the 'big picture'. I'll see if I can find any papers; it's not the sort of thing UC would have put out on a data-base as I believe he left their employ, gasp, under a cloud.
LOL. I think Timothy Leary was also doing some "research" along those lines. I had quite a few friends who were doing their own uncertified research, too.

[KantoSooner]

By the time I ran into this guy, he was in Alaska, making a living as an import car mechanic and hanging out with the guys who you've seen in the intro to Wide World of Sports going down that incredible white water (Devil's Gorge on the Susitna River, the first time it had ever been run, kind of the Everest of white water kayaking).
He kept trying to get them to try different combos of breathing/meditation...along with more pharma oriented methodologies. Not knowing who was doing what made for interesting river outings.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I have always felt that some great athletes possess a trait that separates them form the good or average athletes beyond mere physical talent like speed, size and quickness. I maintain that the truly great athletes in every sport possess a visual-spatial brain capability that allows them to see the field as well as allowing the game to slow down so that it becomes easier to play. I think this capability translates into the ability to "see the field" as some often state. But I also think it gives these athletes in the skill sports like baseball and tennis, an increased hand-eye coordination capability which translates into superior muscle memory which in turn leads to a higher skill level in the sport.

You can just see this in athletes like Tiger Woods, Madison Bumgarner and some of the great hitters in baseball. Babe Ruth looked like anything other than an awe inspiring athlete but he had hitting(and pitching) skills rarely seen in baseball. I understand physical talent certainly helps but there are a lot of physical specimen freaks who don't excel or reach the expected high level of achievement in the NFL and MLB. And you cannot discount work ethic and desire. It is the special athlete that possesses all 3 qualties that stand out.

In football this ability allows some runners to see the holes others miss. It allows QBs to see and anticipate receivers down field. I think Sam Bradford has this ability in spades and will be a great NFL QB because of it if he can ever stay healthy. I have a strong feeling that Perine possesses this skill. I guess time will tell.

I totally and 114% agree with this. There are some talents and strengths some kids are just born with. If they recognize it, they can be freak athletes.

My kids are at an age where they have been playing sports for two to three years now. My son is a big fella. He's only eight, on the cusp of nine, and already weighs between 95-100 pounds. He's not fat, he's just got a thick build. When he was born, he was 9 pounds, 14 ounces.

And, there's no reason for it. I've got a tall grandfather and uncles - all 6'2" or taller - on my mom's side, and a couple of 6'0" uncles on my dad's side. My wife's family, all of her uncles on both sides, parents, and grandparents are under 6'0".

I'm 5'9" and my wife is 5'1". So, when they pulled that boy out of her and I'm seeing his huge thighs and broad back, the first thing that pops into my minds is, "Holy cow, that little thing I married just popped out a linebacker!" (Second thing that crossed my mind is, "which one of my son of a b*tch friends is a big feller like that!")

Anyway, from the time my son started playing sports, I've had coaches pull me aside and ask me to put him in special camps and programs, playing up a level, etc. And, even then, I just told them no. I understand that he's bigger and stronger than most kids his age.

But, he's still just an eight year old kid, more interested in playing video games and watching cartoons than spending hours and hours with psychotic adults putting him through drills for baseball, football, soccer, etc. just because he could make their team better. Those type of adults need a swift kick in the nutsack, if you ask me...that and, very possibly, a lobotomy.

Again, some kids are just born with the knack for seeing the ball, having excellent hand-eye coordination, etc. I firmly believe that, although with years of hard work, a kid can improve some things somewhat, others are simply born with it.

My son was born thick. He's a big, thick kid. You can see that when he gets to the age where he can lift weights, he'll put on muscle quickly. Other people, like me...I can lift from sun up to sun down five days a week and I'll never get the Stallone/Schwarzenegger look...without steroids.

It's the same with speed. Deion Sanders was born with his speed. That's all there is to it.

I've argued this about quarterbacks as well. Trevor Knight is a fine athlete. But, he does not have that gift that the highest talent level quarterbacks have of being able to release the ball quickly enough when he sees a receiver break open. And, there's no shame in that - few athletes possess that.

Look, there are hundreds of kids on college rosters with QB by their names. But, only a few - I'd say less than 20 - can really whip that ball outta there when that receiver gets even a slight step. It's a gift those 20 or so kids are born with, and they recognized and developed.

You can look at athlete after athlete. Former Yankee Ron Guidry was about my size, a 160-165 pounder, but he could throw the ball damn near 100 miles per hour. There have been thousands of pitchers taller, bigger, and stronger than Guidry who couldn't throw the ball within 5-10 miles per hour of him.

Look at that little guy the Kansas City Royals have in their bullpen. God bless the kid, I think he's about 5'7" if you give him a phone book to stand on top of. But, he can throw that baseball like a cannon shot!

You do have recognize your skill and talent. But, some kids, they're just born stronger, faster, more agile.

This whole argument with Ford or Perine is ridiculous. Ford is a fine player. But, Perine...just watch him, then go watch clips of Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Ricky Williams, Herschel Walker...Perine is just that kind of player. He was born naturally strong; he is a man among boys out there.

All of those guys I mentioned, they were shut down from time to time. But, by and large, you gave them the ball 25-30 time a game and they produced big for their teams - college and pro. Our running backs haven't exactly had the luxury this season of a decent passing game to keep safeties honest. So, some teams have stacked the line against us, daring us to beat them with Knight and Thomas...and, that's what makes Perine all the more impressive to me as well.

By the way, I think the last player we had like Perine - and before Adrian Peterson - was Mike Gaddis. Those of us old enough to see him run live? There is no doubt in my mind that had he not had that freak injury - like Jason White's, knee buckling with no one touching him - he'd have been an All-American and played a long time in the NFL. Before his freak knee injury, Gaddis was a hell bent bruiser with speed to boot.

[Eielson]

I totally and 114% agree with this.

Do you understand how percentages work?

[BoulderSooner79]

Do you understand how percentages work?

Agreeing is like turbo mode/overclocking on your CPU. You can go 114% for short periods of time, but then you must shut it down to let your brain cool off.

[KantoSooner]

Or switch to synthetic beer

[SoonerForLife92]

Do you understand how percentages work?

Marijuana must be legal in his state

[LesNessman]

um what? In 2000/2001/2002 they had like 6 personal fouls for roughing the QB. They practically put Nate Hybl into a body cast AFTER the whistle.

Amen to this.

[badger]

Agreeing is like turbo mode/overclocking on your CPU. You can go 114% for short periods of time, but then you must shut it down to let your brain cool off.

Most Pokes can only agree with you 10 percent, because that's how much of the brain the average Poke uses.

[dwarthog]

Agreeing is like turbo mode/overclocking on your CPU. You can go 114% for short periods of time, but then you must shut it down to let your brain cool off.

Like turning your AMP up to 11....

[FaninAma]

um what? In 2000/2001/2002 they had like 6 personal fouls for roughing the QB. They practically put Nate Hybl into a body cast AFTER the whistle.

Yeah, that's true. I think Snyder carried a hateful grudge against Bobby and Mikey for a while. But, I don't think many OU fans consider KSU a dirty team currently.

[SoonerBBall]

Yeah, that's true. I think Snyder carried a hateful grudge against Bobby and Mikey for a while. But, I don't think many OU fans consider KSU a dirty team currently.

I, and every OU fan I know personally, believe KSU to be a filthy, disgusting team full of blatant cheaters that are intentionally coached that way. I don't consider it coincidence at all that the late hits on skill players returned to KSU precisely when Snider was re-hired. KSU fans say that he is coaching his kids to play hard all the time, but the truth is that he is a cheater who encourages his players to take cheap shots.

[Salt City Sooner]

Yeah, that's true. I think Snyder carried a hateful grudge against Bobby and Mikey for a while. But, I don't think many OU fans consider KSU a dirty team currently.
I noticed ( & this is from getting force fed KSU games on the tube up here every week) that the vast majority of the kill the QB stuff stopped @ KSU when Bennett left there for the SMU gig, & now we're seeing the same sort of thing @ Baylor. As bad as I felt for him for how he lost his wife, you're going to have to forgive me for thinking that it's less than coincidental.

[cvsooner]

It is one way to bring a team with superior players down to your skill level. Looks to me like KSU has gotten a bit better about it, but all in all I think that's what Snyder coaches. Funny how despite his long tenure at KSU, nobody's saying he's lost his mojo and should be looking for another job...unlike at OSewe and to a lesser extent, OU. That may something to do with expectations. KSU was so bad for so long that a winning season is considered a good one. We're on the cusp of having a 9-3 season and maybe ten wins, the seventh in the past eight years. Amazing.

[SoCalBigRed]

Ford better than Perine?

BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a couple days.

Ford isn't in the same class. Perine will play at the next level. Ford, may try out... may crack a squad... but, probably not.

[Eielson]

Ford better than Perine?

BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a couple days.

Ford isn't in the same class. Perine will play at the next level. Ford, may try out... may crack a squad... but, probably not.

NFL? He's going to have to get a lot better.

25 carries for 87 yards against TCU
18 carries for 62 yards against Texas
24 carries for 89 yards against KSU

Hopefully he will.