Screw OPEC. Slap a Tarriff On Their Asses

[FaninAma]

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/opec-policy-ensures-u-s-shale-crash-russian-oil-tycoon-says.html

Why do we act as their mercenaries to protect their interests in the Middle East?

BTW, can someone in the oil industry explain the significance of gas gun fracking?

[jkjsooner]

This is nothing new. The US and Canada oil industry has always been at the mercy of OPEC because our oil cost so much more to extract. They can increase the supply so that it isn't economically viable.

I've suspected that they do this periodically to slow down the development of new production capacity. Unfortunately production can't come back online overnight so they can drive down prices and then lower,production for a few years before having to repeat.

I don't think tariffs are a good idea. That would put American companies (other than energy sector) at a disadvantage. Maybe more subsidies when prices are low would work. I think that would be a strategic move to keep production capacity online but I'm not a conservative who opposes all government intervention...

[jkjsooner]

The good news is that our production capability does out a lid on how high OPEC could drive up prices. For national security reasons we need to make sure we keep much of our production on-line.

[Skysooner]

Gas gun fracking will only crack the rock right near the wellbore. Fracking involves pumping thousands of barrels of water carrying sand out into the formation. Fracking insures much higher production rates and longer term rates than any gas gun frack would do.

[yermom]

i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?

[Turd_Ferguson]

i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?

We have to get rid of all the messicans first.

[FaninAma]

i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?

So you're saying you like the US being dependent on oil from the Middle East which means we stay involved with the political and economic turmoil that follows?

And don't assert green energy can make us independent of Middle East oil. Alternative energy is decades away from being a cost effective substitute.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?no, you're right. It would be better for the USA if our oil and gas industry went south, and the cost of gas went up...WTF?!?!?!?

[yermom]

so the government should bail out the private oil industry?

i thought capitalism and the free market would correct something like this

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

so the government should bail out the private oil industry?

i thought capitalism and the free market would correct something like thisSeems like you just came out against Drill Baby Drill! WTF?!?!?!?

[SicEmBaylor]

so the government should bail out the private oil industry?

i thought capitalism and the free market would correct something like this

There's a difference between bailouts and tariffs. I oppose free-trade, and I'm perfectly in favor of tariffs when needed and appropriate.

[REDREX]

i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?---It did---Why do you think prices are down?

[Sooner8th]

---It did---Why do you think prices are down?

Wait a minute - in previous threads it was because the economy was slowing down or Saudi Arabia was lowering prices to get market share. Which is it?

[REDREX]

Wait a minute - in previous threads it was because the economy was slowing down or Saudi Arabia was lowering prices to get market share. Which is it?---Both and over supply----again you should take an economics course

[Turd_Ferguson]

---Both and over supply----again you should take an economics course

That dumb bastard can't spell economics, much less pass the course.

[Sooner8th]

---Both and over supply----again you should take an economics course

You really have no integrity. You have never once said it was all three, you have only mentioned them on at at time. This is the third story you have posted about why oil prices are down. When I posted gas prices dropped under obama it was because SA was upping production to gain market share. Then when I posted how good the economy was doing it was - the economy is going to slow down, oil prices are dropping because of that expectation. Now it's because of drilling here in America. Which one is it? If it is all three then say so, but stop give all the credit to one cause. You say one then the other depending on what argument you want to make, but never all three.

I have, enough to understand it is usually more than one factor that drives prices on any economy.

[Sooner8th]

That dumb bastard can't spell economics, much less pass the course.

You are really one dumbass inbred *******. This post shows you know nothing about me, I have taken enough get a minor in economics. What do you have? Bitch

[REDREX]

You really have no integrity. You have never once said it was all three, you have only mentioned them on at at time. This is the third story you have posted about why oil prices are down. When I posted gas prices dropped under obama it was because SA was upping production to gain market share. Then when I posted how good the economy was doing it was - the economy is going to slow down, oil prices are dropping because of that expectation. Now it's because of drilling here in America. Which one is it? If it is all three then say so, but stop give all the credit to one cause. You say one then the other depending on what argument you want to make, but never all three.

I have, enough to understand it is usually more than one factor that drives prices on any economy.---- Its all three TECH boy---don't get in discussion you don't understand

[Sooner8th]

---- Its all three TECH boy---don't get in discussion you don't understand

Then don't try to pretend it's not.

Tell me - when oil prices were up over the last few years, was it because the economy was growing?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Then don't try to pretend it's not.

Tell me - when oil prices were up over the last few years, was it because the economy was growing?

You have no idea what you're talking about in this thread. You should start posting in the Test Area forum. You could win the innerwebs over there.

[REDREX]

Then don't try to pretend it's not.

Tell me - when oil prices were up over the last few years, was it because the economy was growing?---Its a Global market---World demand was growing----gasoline demand in this country is almost flat

[Sooner8th]

---Its a Global market---World demand was growing----gasoline demand in this country is almost flat

Tell me why gasoline demand in this country is almost flat.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Tell me why gasoline demand in this country is almost flat.

I'll give you a hint (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl).

[Sooner8th]

I'll give you a hint (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl).

You don't know? Try your hint. Learn something.

[REDREX]

Tell me why gasoline demand in this country is almost flat.---Look it up yourself---- cars that use less gas and price mainly

[Turd_Ferguson]

---Look it up yourself---- cars that use less gas and price mainly

Also, peeps not driving to work cause they ain't got a job.

[Sooner8th]

---Look it up yourself---- cars that use less gas and price mainly

Mainly cars using less gas, the price of gas has some impact but not a lot. Most folks don't have a choice but to drive.

Now tell me why cars are more efficient.

[REDREX]

Mainly cars using less gas, the price of gas has some impact but not a lot. Most folks don't have a choice but to drive.

Now tell me why cars are more efficient.---You tell me Google boy----What is your point?

[Sooner8th]

---You tell me Google boy----What is your point?

Cash for clunkers, Obama and the democrats saving gm and Chrysler and higher fuel efficiency standards passed by democrats.

It's time you boys finally gave obama some credit.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Quote Originally Posted by yermom
i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?
---It did---Why do you think prices are down?Drill baby drill, and the price of gas will drop even more. HOW HARD IS THIS?!?!?!?

[REDREX]

Cash for clunkers, Obama and the democrats saving gm and Chrysler and higher fuel efficiency standards passed by democrats.

It's time you boys finally gave obama some credit.--- That's funny----Thank God for the Dems saving the Country from itself---- I believe demand peaked in 2007---That would be Bush's watch---It was declining before Barack showed up

[yermom]

Drill baby drill, and the price of gas will drop even more. HOW HARD IS THIS?!?!?!?

you understand that the premise of this thread is that OPEC has crashed the price of oil causing gas prices to drop, right?

this in turn freaks out the US oil companies which alert whomever it is that puts out the alert to the AMAs of the world to come and bitch about it.

domestic drilling only works when oil is above a certain point.

Obama and big oil agree on something, i guess. the more you pay at the pump, the better.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

you understand that the premise of this thread is that OPEC has crashed the price of oil causing gas prices to drop, right?

this in turn freaks out the US oil companies which alert whomever it is that puts out the alert to the AMAs of the world to come and bitch about it.

domestic drilling only works when oil is above a certain point.

Obama and big oil agree on something, i guess. the more you pay at the pump, the better.Oh gosh, SO unlike a Leftist to play the stupid card! Consumers benefit when the cost goes down. HOW HARD IS THAT!?!?!? And, that is good, and important.

Big oil would rather be allowed to drill more by the anti-fossil fuel regime, you know?

[Sooner8th]

Quote Originally Posted by yermom
i thought drilling would solve all of our problems?Drill baby drill, and the price of gas will drop even more. HOW HARD IS THIS?!?!?!?

If that were true why has the price of oil been around the same for the last four years, I know it's dropping now, when the US has added 50% more production?

[Sooner8th]

--- That's funny----Thank God for the Dems saving the Country from itself---- I believe demand peaked in 2007---That would be Bush's watch---It was declining before Barack showed up

FINALLY you are getting it! If it were up to you, gm and chysler would be dead, bin lauden would be alive, the banks would fail and oil would be at $150 a barrel. So yes, THANK GOD FOR DEMOCRATS SAVING AMERICA FROM REPUBLICANS.

I see you can discern trends that started before obama took office. Now of wise lover of democrats, why did demand fall under bush 2007?

THE BUSH RECESSION!

Why is demand falling when the economy is growing? HUH?

Come on you can answer it. You know why.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So, we are now back to government requiring the stupid mortgages to those who don't qualify for the loan. It WAS tragic, and the foundation for the economic collapse.

[Sooner8th]

So, we are now back to government requiring the stupid mortgages to those who don't qualify for the loan. It WAS tragic, and the foundation for the economic collapse.


Where on gods green earth do you get this incredibly stupid sh!t from? Just can't being yourself to blame the dumbass YOU voted into office TWICE. BUSH

How the hell was the "government requiring the stupid mortgages to those who don't qualify for the loan"?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Think of what the Oil/Gas production would be like if it weren't for O'Bumble**** and the DIM's being in charge... Obama has already put himself in the books as the WORST POTUS ever. I can't wait for the morning that dip****s like 8th wake up and cry over their bowl of stupid because America finally stood up for itself against the raging racist, hypocritical, ***** ***, piece of ****, cocksucking liberals.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Shining the light of truth makes the rats agitate and scurry .

[REDREX]

FINALLY you are getting it! If it were up to you, gm and chysler would be dead, bin lauden would be alive, the banks would fail and oil would be at $150 a barrel. So yes, THANK GOD FOR DEMOCRATS SAVING AMERICA FROM REPUBLICANS.

I see you can discern trends that started before obama took office. Now of wise lover of democrats, why did demand fall under bush 2007?

THE BUSH RECESSION!

Why is demand falling when the economy is growing? HUH?

Come on you can answer it. You know why.---Google Boy you are clueless---Stick with a subject you understand-----If you are able to find one

[REDREX]

So, we are now back to government requiring the stupid mortgages to those who don't qualify for the loan. It WAS tragic, and the foundation for the economic collapse.-----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

-----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNMHey 8th, yermom, all you libs, WATCH AND LISTEN TO THE YOUTUBE.

Just because you guys have statist blinders on, doesn't mean your ways aren't disastrous.

[Sooner8th]

Think of what the Oil/Gas production would be like if it weren't for O'Bumble**** and the DIM's being in charge... Obama has already put himself in the books as the WORST POTUS ever. I can't wait for the morning that dip****s like 8th wake up and cry over their bowl of stupid because America finally stood up for itself against the raging racist, hypocritical, ***** ***, piece of ****, cocksucking liberals.

Turd is a perfect name for you. Think of where oil/gas production would be if BUSH was president! DOWN under bush - UP under obama. BUT OBAMA IS KILLING OIL PRODUCTION IN THE US!

Only with rightwingnuts has he "put himself in the books as the WORST POTUS ever". The dumbass YOU voted for twice was ten time worse than obama.

It is raging racist, hypocritical, ***** ***, piece of ****, cocksucking inbred, dumbass, lemmings like you who think the economy is as bad if not worse as when obama took over.

[Sooner8th]

Hey 8th, yermom, all you libs, WATCH AND LISTEN TO THE YOUTUBE.

Just because you guys have statist blinders on, doesn't mean your ways aren't disastrous.

Oh rush and redrex straight off ****ing faux "news". Why didn't the dumbass in chief do anything about it if he knew so much.

[Sooner8th]

So, we are now back to government requiring the stupid mortgages to those who don't qualify for the loan. It WAS tragic, and the foundation for the economic collapse.


Shining the light of truth makes the rats agitate and scurry .

You don't even understand that freddie and fannie don't ORIGINATE LOANS.

[REDREX]

Oh rush and redrex straight off ****ing faux "news". Why didn't the dumbass in chief do anything about it if he knew so much.---But But But Barney Fagg said everything was OK

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't know if our board libs know that the dems had control of the situation, and Bush was unable to stop the horsesh*t disaster loans. Makes no difference now, of course, since the damage was done, and many other breakdowns in our lawful and successful society have occurred, and will continue to occur, exponentially.We now have uncontrolled and unaccountable immigration. Lots to look forward to.

[Sooner8th]

---But But But Barney Fagg said everything was OK


You do know he said that in 2003 don't you? Or did you not bother to GOOGLE it?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB122290574391296381

[Sooner8th]

I don't know if our board libs know that the dems had control of the situation, and Bush was unable to stop the horsesh*t disaster loans. Makes no difference now, of course, since the damage was done, and many other breakdowns in our lawful and successful society have occurred, and will continue to occur, exponentially.We now have uncontrolled and unaccountable immigration. Lots to look forward to.

What the **** man? You just making sh!t up now. Bush would have stopped it but the libs stopped him.

[Sooner8th]

A few facts for you hillbillies who buy into EVERY RNC RIGHTWINGNUT TALKING POINT who are desperate to blame the democrats so the blame will not fall on who is actually at fault, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/barney-frank-didnt-cause-the-housing-crisis/2011/11/28/gIQANqLH5N_blog.html

[rock on sooner]

Wow, don't you guys get tired of this back and forth? A constant one up on
the other guy with name calling and trying to show who is "smarter"...puh-leeze!

[Sooner8th]

Wow, don't you guys get tired of this back and forth? A constant one up on
the other guy with name calling and trying to show who is "smarter"...puh-leeze!

It's not a matter of being smarter, it's a matter of not believing anything rightwingnut media tells you. These guys hang their hat on barney frank saying freddie and fannie were ok, but what they don't know and don't bother to look up is he said that in 2003.

Then again, making sure the "facts" you believe and perpetuate are accurate is a matter of being smart enough to find out before you run with them.

[olevetonahill]

Wow, don't you guys get tired of this back and forth? A constant one up on
the other guy with name calling and trying to show who is "smarter"...puh-leeze!

Naw it's fun to antagonize the dweeb lol

[Sooner8th]

Naw it's fun to antagonize the dweeb lol

Hey dumbass, have you figured out why offensive penalty yards can be gained back? Or is your inbred low IQ *** still working on that.

Moron

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Sic em, you may not be old enough to remember '78 Monte Carlos and Jimmy Carter's double digit inflation. Tariffs are horrible for America. Tariffs are a tax on the American consumer and they lead to inflation. Tariffs are anti-freedom.

[SicEmBaylor]

Sic em, you may not be old enough to remember '78 Monte Carlos and Jimmy Carter's double digit inflation. Tariffs are horrible for America. Tariffs are a tax on the American consumer and they lead to inflation. Tariffs are anti-freedom.

The nation functioned just fine through most of its history on tariffs. The problem is when they're misused or misapplied. Free Trade agreements sacrifice our sovereignty and our industrial base for the sake of corporate profits. We used to actually produce things in this country, but we've given that away for the sake of cheap sub-standard labor.

I don't mind free trade with 'equitable' economies to our own. Canada is a good example. Labor costs, regulatory burdens, etc. are similar enough to the United States that we can compete with them on an equal footing. There is no way in hell that an American business or American labor can compete with Mexican or Chinese labor when those economies lack the same regulatory and labor burdens.

[FaninAma]

Tariffs are designed to protect a nation's vital interest and protect its economy. I think not being dependent on oil produced in countries ran by dictators who despise us would qualify as being in our vital national interest.

[SoonerorLater]

The nation functioned just fine through most of its history on tariffs. The problem is when they're misused or misapplied. Free Trade agreements sacrifice our sovereignty and our industrial base for the sake of corporate profits. We used to actually produce things in this country, but we've given that away for the sake of cheap sub-standard labor.

I don't mind free trade with 'equitable' economies to our own. Canada is a good example. Labor costs, regulatory burdens, etc. are similar enough to the United States that we can compete with them on an equal footing. There is no way in hell that an American business or American labor can compete with Mexican or Chinese labor when those economies lack the same regulatory and labor burdens.

Yes tariffs were a primary funding source for the government for many years. However this was for the most part before we had a Federal Income Tax. I would gladly go back to tariffs if the income tax could be repealed. It would support domestic production and encourage saving over spending. I would not support tariffs AND a federal income tax. That would be the worst scenario.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yes tariffs were a primary funding source for the government for many years. However this was for the most part before we had a Federal Income Tax. I would gladly go back to tariffs if the income tax could be repealed. It would support domestic production and encourage saving over spending. I would not support tariffs AND a federal income tax. That would be the worst scenario.

Absolutely agreed.

[REDREX]

Oil down to $64.50 ---this will shutdown many of the shale plays in the next few months---Going to lose a bunch of jobs

[Sooner8th]

Oil down to $64.50 ---this will shutdown many of the shale plays in the next few months---Going to lose a bunch of jobs

Through this thread and others, it has been claimed that the price of oil is affected by lower demand in the US due to higher mileage cars, increased oil production in the US and by Saudi Arabia increasing their output. No one brought up one of the main drivers of the price of oil - speculation on the commodities futures market. The price of oil has fallen from the low $90's to mid $60's in two months. The global economy is slowing down slightly, not enough to account for an almost 1/3 drop in oil prices. Increased production and/or the expectation of an increase in production over the last two months is not enough to cause the price to drop as much as it has.

Increased oil production has been credited for ALL of the increase in employment in the US which of course is price driven. Conservatives keep talking about the false recovery with the fed and other finance stimulus. Now the energy sector will feel the effects of inflated oil prices due to speculation. Overall economy will benefit from lower gas prices and energy prices.

[FaninAma]

I wonder how long little Vlad Putin will stand idly by while the Saudi's drive the remaining nails into the coffin of Russia's struggling economy.

[REDREX]

Through this thread and others, it has been claimed that the price of oil is affected by lower demand in the US due to higher mileage cars, increased oil production in the US and by Saudi Arabia increasing their output. No one brought up one of the main drivers of the price of oil - speculation on the commodities futures market. The price of oil has fallen from the low $90's to mid $60's in two months. The global economy is slowing down slightly, not enough to account for an almost 1/3 drop in oil prices. Increased production and/or the expectation of an increase in production over the last two months is not enough to cause the price to drop as much as it has.

Increased oil production has been credited for ALL of the increase in employment in the US which of course is price driven. Conservatives keep talking about the false recovery with the fed and other finance stimulus. Now the energy sector will feel the effects of inflated oil prices due to speculation. Overall economy will benefit from lower gas prices and energy prices.---You know nothing about oil trading----Find a subject you can talk about intelligently

[olevetonahill]

---You know nothing about oil trading----
Find a subject you can talk about intelligently

Is that yer Polite way of tellin him to STFU?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Oil down to $64.50 ---this will shutdown many of the shale plays in the next few months---Going to lose a bunch of jobs

In lay terms, what has to happen in order for oil/gas production to get back to a steady rate like back in the early 80's?

[REDREX]

In lay terms, what has to happen in order for oil/gas production to get back to a steady rate like back in the early 80's?---The oil price was cut in half in the 80's lets not go back there----The strong Dollar is also hurting the price of oil-----The market trades ---high prices lead to low prices----It will be down for a while

[olevetonahill]

---The oil price was cut in half in the 80's lets not go back there----The strong Dollar is also hurting the price of oil-----The market trades ---high prices lead to low prices----It will be down for a while

Im guessing yer in the Bidness. I wish you well.

[REDREX]

Is that yer Polite way of tellin him to STFU?---Liberals always want to talk about speculators---For every "speculator" that makes money a "speculator" loses money ---it is just a stupid talking point

[REDREX]

Im guessing yer in the Bidness. I wish you well.---Won't bother me a bit----It will cost less to buy so it takes less cash

[Sooner8th]

---The oil price was cut in half in the 80's lets not go back there----The strong Dollar is also hurting the price of oil-----The market trades ---high prices lead to low prices----It will be down for a while

So you have yet another reason the price of oil is dropping. So tell you oh so wise conservatives, what happened to Obama's economy making the dollar no longer the currency of choice around the globe?

Like I have said before - no integrity.

[Sooner8th]

---You know nothing about oil trading----Find a subject you can talk about intelligently

OK redex - educate me. Explain how the price of oil drops by around a third in two months when the factors YOU claim control the price of oil don't change enough to cause the drop.

[REDREX]

OK redex - educate me. Explain how the price of oil drops by around a third in two months when the factors YOU claim control the price of oil don't change enough to cause the drop.---It is a market Google boy it trades ----You are the self proclaimed smartest person here you figure it out----- start trading and you can become very rich

[REDREX]

So you have yet another reason the price of oil is dropping. So tell you oh so wise conservatives, what happened to Obama's economy making the dollar no longer the currency of choice around the globe?

Like I have said before - no integrity.---Its stronger Google boy ----people want it----And you have no clue

[FaninAma]

Sooner8th, Obama's policies have virtually nothing to do with what is going on in the national and global economies. His actions are purely for political show. The world banks and the derivative markets control everything. I can almost guarantee you that the reason the price of oil has fallen so fast is that the Saudi's are manupulating the oil derivatives market. Supply has nothing to do with it. Obama's policies have nothing to do with the strong dollar or our interest rates or the equity markets.

Haven't you guys figured it out? There are a 300 trillion dollars in derivatives floating around the world for a reason.

[Sooner8th]

---Its stronger Google boy ----people want it----And you have no clue

As usual you are ignoring my point. A few years back conservatives were crying that the dollar was no longer the currency of choice because of the obama economy. Now it's so strong you are claiming it is hurting the price of oil. Yet another example of a claim that never came to fruition. No integrity.

[REDREX]

As usual you are ignoring my point. A few years back conservatives were crying that the dollar was no longer the currency of choice because of the obama economy. Now it's so strong you are claiming it is hurting the price of oil. Yet another example of a claim that never came to fruition. No integrity.---As usual you are trying to deflect because you have no point to make----NO CLUE

[Sooner8th]

Sooner8th, Obama's policies have virtually nothing to do with what is going on in the national and global economies. His actions are purely for political show. The world banks and the derivative markets control everything. I can almost guarantee you that the reason the price of oil has fallen so fast is that the Saudi's are manupulating the oil derivatives market. Supply has nothing to do with it. Obama's policies have nothing to do with the strong dollar or our interest rates or the equity markets.

Haven't you guys figured it out? There are a 300 trillion dollars in derivatives floating around the world for a reason.

So to be clear, when the eoncomy is not doing as well as you think it should be, it is because of obamas policies are holding back growth. But when the economy is growing and jobs are being added, "Obama's policies have virtually nothing to do with what is going on in the national and global economies". Right?

Tell me who wanted 300 trillion dollars in derivatives floating around the world? Who pushed for and got the bill passed to deregulate derivative trading?

I'll give you a hint - it was a republican.

Another question - what party hates regulation and fights to keep them deregulated?

[FaninAma]

So to be clear, when the eoncomy is not doing as well as you think it should be, it is because of obamas policies are holding back growth. But when the economy is growing and jobs are being added, "Obama's policies have virtually nothing to do with what is going on in the national and global economies". Right?

Tell me who wanted 300 trillion dollars in derivatives floating around the world? Who pushed for and got the bill passed to deregulate derivative trading?

I'll give you a hint - it was a republican.

Another question - what party hates regulation and fights to keep them deregulated?

That's not what i said. His(or any President's) policies have a lot less impact on the economy than do the policies of the central banks and the derivatives markets.

What do you think caused the meltdown of '08?

[jkjsooner]

Does every thread in this forum have to devolve into a pi**ing match?

I'm curious what you all think about whether Saudi Arabia is periodically manipulating the price of oil to keep US production capacity off line. (I'd guess lowering prices for a couple of years to shut down existing sites and end future exploration would put us a lot further back than the two years. All OPEC has to do is lower prices just long enough to cause hardships and once US/Canada production drops then they can allow prices to raise for a few years. Rinse and repeat.)

I'm also curious about your opinion on subsidies and tariffs. I disagree with Baylor on this one. Both have to be paid for so maybe it doesn't make a huge difference but a tariff would seem to place a huge burden on the non-energy sectors and basically make us even less competitive.

Anyway, can we get back to the issues at hand? I'm certainly no expert on these matters so I'd love to hear a little more debate and a little less seeing who can pi$$ the furthest.

[REDREX]

Very simple----over supply+strong dollar+weak world wide demand+Saudis wanting market share back and desire to slow drilling = lower prices------

[olevetonahill]

Very simple----over supply+strong dollar+weak world wide demand+Saudis wanting market share back and desire to slow drilling = lower prices------

Pretty good sumation
as far as the Pissin matches go aint no contest . we all have dicks 8th has a vagina so we naturally out pee him LOL

[SicEmBaylor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8avWJIwyxY

[yermom]

Does every thread in this forum have to devolve into a pi**ing match?

I'm curious what you all think about whether Saudi Arabia is periodically manipulating the price of oil to keep US production capacity off line. (I'd guess lowering prices for a couple of years to shut down existing sites and end future exploration would put us a lot further back than the two years. All OPEC has to do is lower prices just long enough to cause hardships and once US/Canada production drops then they can allow prices to raise for a few years. Rinse and repeat.)

I'm also curious about your opinion on subsidies and tariffs. I disagree with Baylor on this one. Both have to be paid for so maybe it doesn't make a huge difference but a tariff would seem to place a huge burden on the non-energy sectors and basically make us even less competitive.

Anyway, can we get back to the issues at hand? I'm certainly no expert on these matters so I'd love to hear a little more debate and a little less seeing who can pi$$ the furthest.

yeah, why should Joe consumer get punished to keep the oil companies' record profits flowing?

[FaninAma]

yeah, why should Joe consumer get punished to keep the oil companies' record profits flowing?

The biggest "oil compaqny" in the world is Saudi Arabia. By threatening the development of our own petroleum industry they are, in essence, threatening our national security. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor over much less provocation...much of it having to do with their energy supply being threatened by US policy.

And if Saudi Arabia is successful in shutting down the shale oil fields here and around the world what do you think is going to happen to the price?

I again ask you the question: Do you like the US being dependent on oil from the Middle East so that we have to be involved in their 3rd world religious wars and where we end up choosing one group of terrorist-supporting dictators over another?

A tariff is in our national interest. I am willing to pay a few cents a gallon more for gas if it means my kids or your kids don't have to go over to some hell hole in the Middle East to be mercenaries for the House of Saud.

[jkjsooner]

The biggest "oil compaqny" in the world is Saudi Arabia. By threatening the development of our own petroleum industry they are, in essence, threatening our national security. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor over much less provocation...much of it having to do with their energy supply being threatened by US policy.

I'm not sure that makes such a strong argument. History hasn't been too kind to Japan or its rationale for attacking Pearl Harbor.


And if Saudi Arabia is successful in shutting down the shale oil fields here and around the world what do you think is going to happen to the price?

So do you agree with my guess that lowering prices for a year or two could impact domestic production for a much longer period of time? I guess that's obvious otherwise OPEC would have no incentive to keep prices low.

I guess it's sort of like Walmart coming in and artificially lowering prices to drive all local competition out of business and then once the competition is gone raising prices. (I'm not saying Walmart does the last part but they probably could.)

[okie52]

Don't protect the oil companies. They can endure this much better than they could the Saudi glut created in 1986. Many opec members are already wanting to cut production to drive prices back up. Venezuela, Libya, Iran et al are already screaming.

It may get tight here for a while in the oil business and some will lose their jobs in few months...maybe sooner. Hell I might be without work and have to spend more time on this board...frightening!!!

But in the long run its best not to protect the oil companies and allow them to direct their resources to the most insulated reserves with the lowest extraction costs...For now anyway until the market saturation has been reduced. This has already been done on ng for the last few years and that is just a regional product...oil will come back much quicker than ng.

[REDREX]

Don't protect the oil companies. They can endure this much better than they could the Saudi glut created in 1986. Many opec members are already wanting to cut production to drive prices back up. Venezuela, Libya, Iran et al are already screaming.

It may get tight here for a while in the oil business and some will lose their jobs in few months...maybe sooner. Hell I might be without work and have to spend more time on this board...frightening!!!

But in the long run its best not to protect the oil companies and allow them to direct their resources to the most insulated reserves with the lowest extraction costs...For now anyway until the market saturation has been reduced. This has already been done on ng for the last few years and that is just a regional product...oil will come back much quicker than ng.---Less drilling will help NG price-----Nothing could be as bad as 1986----The US should be able to export crude

[okie52]

Inventories on ng should keep dropping. US should be able to export ng and oil.

[FaninAma]

I'm not sure that makes such a strong argument. History hasn't been too kind to Japan or its rationale for attacking Pearl Harbor.

I'm not advocating going to war. I was just trying to point out how other countries view a threat to their energy supply. We have the option of simply putting a tariff on imported oil and gas in order to insure continued production(i.e. less dependence on the middle East/Russia/Venezuela) of our own resources.




So do you agree with my guess that lowering prices for a year or two could impact domestic production for a much longer period of time? I guess that's obvious otherwise OPEC would have no incentive to keep prices low.

I guess it's sort of like Walmart coming in and artificially lowering prices to drive all local competition out of business and then once the competition is gone raising prices. (I'm not saying Walmart does the last part but they probably could.)

I think eventually Russia will start some saber rattling in order to spook the Saudis into dropping production. I read a thesis today about how The Saudi ramp up in production in 1985 was as responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union economy(and hence their union) as anyhting the US did militarily or economically. That's the risk of having a non-diversified economy.

[yermom]

i'm still not sure why the rest of the country/world should be punished with higher oil prices just so that some oil billionaires can continue fleecing us

[FaninAma]

i'm still not sure why the rest of the country/world should be punished with higher oil prices just so that some oil billionaires can continue fleecing us
Yeah, let's just flood the nation with cheap **** from the rest of the world....cheap oil from the ME, cheap textiles from Malaysia, cheap manufactured goods from China, cheap labor from Latin America.

I am am sure that is a sure fire way to make our country an economic powerhouse. Who needs a manufacturing and energy sector? I am sure burger flipping jobs will pay enough to raise the standard of living in this country.

Please fill us in on all these evil oil billionaires who are fleecing us. Kind of stupid of them to increase production so much that the price of oil has dropped almost 40% this year. The only ones getting hurt by that are the ragheads in the ME and the fascists in Russia. Are you really that big of a fan of those 2 groups?

[yermom]

everything is more expensive when gas is expensive. who other than the oil companies are complaining now?

and this is hammering Russia right now. i was hearing talk earlier today that the oil crash may have been what really brought down the USSR

[olevetonahill]

everything is more expensive when gas is expensive. who other than the oil companies are complaining now?

and this is hammering Russia right now. i was hearing talk earlier today that the oil crash may have been what really brought down the USSR

When the Oil field jobs dry up and the economy goes south again will it be Ws fault?

[okie52]

i'm still not sure why the rest of the country/world should be punished with higher oil prices just so that some oil billionaires can continue fleecing us

They shouldn't...any more than we should be punished by saving poorly run auto companies or mismanaged banks.

[FaninAma]

They shouldn't...any more than we should be punished by saving poorly run auto companies or mismanaged banks.
The ironic thing that yermom doesn't grasp is that gasoline prices were at their highest until US producers came on line and drove the prices down. Now Saudi Arabia wants to whack the US producers so once again they can take the prices higher. I don't see how anybody can view waht the Suadis are doing as a good thing for this country other than it might produce ultra temporary lower prices than what we have now.

Everybody bitches about stagnant wages but then they turn around and shop at whichever multinational corporate box store(or on line company) that can give them the lowest prices. Idiocy.

[yermom]

When the Oil field jobs dry up and the economy goes south again will it be Ws fault?

there are plenty of non-oil job, just maybe not in this state...

[yermom]

The ironic thing that yermom doesn't grasp is that gasoline prices were at their highest until US producers came on line and drove the prices down. Now Saudi Arabia wants to whack the US producers so once again they can take the prices higher. I don't see how anybody can view waht the Suadis are doing as a good thing for this country other than it might produce ultra temporary lower prices than what we have now.

Everybody bitches about stagnant wages but then they turn around and shop at whichever multinational corporate box store(or on line company) that can give them the lowest prices. Idiocy.

so then our oil barons will be able to make money with the more expensive oil sources again. does the oil go bad in the ground when it's too cheap to drill for?

[FaninAma]

You cannot put a price on being free from dependence on Russian and ME oil.