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Sooner in Tampa
11/18/2014, 02:45 PM
I found this on our 'liberal' paper's site (Tampa Bay Times)...it comes from the NY Times.

I am sure 8th will dispute every thing in the article, but even the libs are fed up with his sh!t


They say failure can be a good teacher, but, so far, the Obama administration is opting out of the course. The postmidterm period has been one of the most bizarre of the Obama presidency. President Barack Obama has racked up some impressive foreign policy accomplishments, but, domestically and politically, things are off the rails.
Usually presidents use midterm defeats as a chance to rethink and refocus. That's what Obama did four years ago. Voters like to feel the president is listening to them.

But Obama's done no public rethinking. In his postelection news conference, the president tried to reframe the defeat by saying the turnout was low, as if it was the Republicans' fault that the Democrats could only mobilize their core base. Throughout that conference, the president seemed to detach himself from his own party, as if the Democrats who lost their jobs because of him were a bunch of far-off victims of some ethereal malaise.

Usually presidents at the end of their terms get less partisan, not more. But with his implied veto threat of the Keystone XL oil pipeline, Obama seems intent on showing that Democrats, too, can put partisanship above science. Keystone XL has been studied to the point of exhaustion, and the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that it's a modest but good idea. The latest State Department study found that it would not significantly worsen the environment. The oil's going to come out anyway, and it's greener to transport it by pipeline than by train. The economic impact isn't huge, but at least there'd be a $5.3 billion infrastructure project.


Usually presidents with a new congressional majority try to figure out if there is anything that the two branches can do together. The governing Republicans have a strong incentive to pass legislation. The obvious thing is to start out with the easiest things, if only to show that Washington can function on some elemental level.

But the White House has not privately engaged with Congress on the legislative areas where there could be agreement. Instead, the president has been superaggressive on the one topic sure to blow everything up: the executive order to rewrite the nation's immigration laws.

The president was in no rush to issue this order through 2014, when it might have been politically risky. He questioned whether had the constitutional authority to do this through most of his first term, when he said that an executive order of this sort would probably be illegal.

But now the president is in a rush and is convinced he has authority. I sympathize with what Obama is trying to do substantively, but the process of how it's being done is ruinous.
Republicans would rightly take it as a calculated insult and yet more political ineptitude. Everybody would go into warfare mode. We'll get two more years of dysfunction that will further arouse public disgust and antigovernment fervor (making a Republican presidency more likely).

This move would also make it much less likely that we'll have immigration reform anytime soon. White House officials are often misinformed on what Republicans are privately discussing, so they don't understand that many in the Republican Party are trying to find a way to get immigration reform out of the way. This executive order would destroy their efforts.
The move would further destabilize the legitimacy of government. Redefining the legal status of 5 million or 6 million human beings is a big deal. This is the sort of change we have a legislative process for. To do something this seismic with the stroke of one man's pen is dangerous.

Instead of a nation of laws, we could slowly devolve into a nation of diktats, with each president relying on and revoking different measures on the basis of unilateral power — creating unstable swings from one presidency to the next. If Obama enacts this order on the transparently flimsy basis of "prosecutorial discretion," he's inviting future presidents to use similarly flimsy criteria. Talk about defining constitutional deviancy down.


I'm not sure why the Obama administration has been behaving so strangely since the midterms. Maybe various people in the White House are angry in defeat and want to show that they can be as obstructionist as anyone. Maybe, in moments of stress, they are only really sensitive to criticism from the left flank. Maybe it's Gruberism: the belief that everybody else is slightly dumber and less well-motivated than oneself and, therefore, politics is more about manipulation than conversation.

Whatever it is, it's been a long journey from the Iowa caucuses in early 2008 to the pre-emptive obstruction of today. I wonder if, postpresidency, Obama will look back and regret that he got sucked into the very emotional maelstrom he set out to destroy.

© 2014 New York Times

rock on sooner
11/18/2014, 03:13 PM
I'm curious as to the author of that piece's name. There are more than a few
of his points that I'd argue about....I'm not sure that he listened to the same
prez presser that I did.

The immigration issue, probably, Obama should not press. He really should give
the Pubs a chance to show they can govern. Keystone....pluses...$5.6 billion
infrastructure project and about 2000 construction jobs...minuses....only about
50 or so permanent jobs...a 1170 mile blight on the landscape...the potential for
big time environmental damages...nearly all the oil transported will go elsewhere...
When the tar sand oil plays out, we'll still have the 1170 mile blight on the landscape.
At least, if rail/truck transport were used, we wouldn't have that. Short term, I can
see the advantages...long term, not so much.

One area I'm not certain of, does anyone know if the property taxes generated when
the pipleline is in use carries forward when it no longer is active?

FaninAma
11/18/2014, 03:39 PM
At the current rate of production the oil from the Tar Sands will last 170 years. 25% of the oil transported will be from US production. If the pipeline becomes obsolete or is no longer used I suspect the same thing will happen to it that happened to thousands of miles of railroad line no longer being used....it will be disassembled and recycled for the metal.

I am in favor of any measure that will make us less dependent on foreign sources of oil....especially oil from the Middle East and Russia. I don't care how many jobs it will directly produce. If it lowers the priice of oil then it will produce an imeasurable number of jobs indirectly through increased economic activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

Skysooner
11/18/2014, 04:13 PM
At the current rate of production the oil from the Tar Sands will last 170 years. 25% of the oil transported will be from US production. If the pipeline becomes obsolete or is no longer used I suspect the same thing will happen to it that happened to thousands of miles of railroad line no longer being used....it will be disassembled and recycled for the metal.

I am in favor of any measure that will make us less dependent on foreign sources of oil....especially oil from the Middle East and Russia. I don't care how many jobs it will directly produce. If it lowers the priice of oil then it will produce an imeasurable number of jobs indirectly through increased economic activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

Absolutely agree and Rock On, truck and rail is quite a bit more dangerous to the environment. My company deals with it every day getting oil out of Colorado.

REDREX
11/18/2014, 04:33 PM
But the pipeline will cost Barack's buddy Warren Buffet a bunch of money----BNSF will lose the rail movement---How is a pipeline a blight on the landscape?

okie52
11/18/2014, 04:36 PM
Landrieu's trying to save her fat *** on cspan right now.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?322766-...ne-debate&live


It will be funny of Obama vetoes keystone and further sinks her azz.

rock on sooner
11/18/2014, 04:51 PM
Maybe construction is different that it was when I was younger. Every major
line I saw then was a wide swath through farm/ranch land taken, in many cases,
through eminent domain and later abandoned, with no effort to reclaim the land.
The pix I've seen of construction now looks even more destructive. The pipelines
run by this group have multiple leaks every year. Is the new route for Keystone
still over the Ogallala Aquafier(sp?) or has it been rerouted? I'm ambivalent on
the issue....I really have environmental concerns, but I can see the other side,
as well.

I'm all for getting free of oil imports, too. I didn't know the Tar Sands had a 170
year life expectancy, but that oil is not going to the U.S., as I understand it. And,
I doubt that Buffet is concerned...he just bought Duracell Batteries to add to his
diversification. Hell, it's a big conundrum...don't know the answer....

REDREX
11/18/2014, 04:56 PM
Maybe construction is different that it was when I was younger. Every major
line I saw then was a wide swath through farm/ranch land taken, in many cases,
through eminent domain and later abandoned, with no effort to reclaim the land.
The pix I've seen of construction now looks even more destructive. The pipelines
run by this group have multiple leaks every year. Is the new route for Keystone
still over the Ogallala Aquafier(sp?) or has it been rerouted? I'm ambivalent on
the issue....I really have environmental concerns, but I can see the other side,
as well.

I'm all for getting free of oil imports, too. I didn't know the Tar Sands had a 170
year life expectancy, but that oil is not going to the U.S., as I understand it. And,
I doubt that Buffet is concerned...he just bought Duracell Batteries to add to his
diversification. Hell, it's a big conundrum...don't know the answer....---There are tens of thousands of miles of pipeline over the aquifer and have been for 50-70 years. For the most part you cannot tell a pipeline is even in a field---The farmers will just keep on farming

BigTip
11/18/2014, 06:09 PM
Fellows, The Keystone pipeline is a minor part of that op-ed piece.
The meat of it is how the president is considering pardoning millions of criminals.

I personally think he has lost it. Did you see him walking into the Asian conference chewing gum? I couldn't believe it. Doesn't he have any handlers at all?

okie52
11/18/2014, 06:27 PM
Keystone bill fails. Adios landrieu.

REDREX
11/18/2014, 06:54 PM
She was gone anyway----probably be some help keeping the price of oil up

olevetonahill
11/18/2014, 07:01 PM
Keystone bill fails. Adios landrieu.

Needed ONE vote.

okie52
11/18/2014, 07:14 PM
She was gone anyway----probably be some help keeping the price of oil up

Yeah...she was probably toast once it got to a runoff....glad to see her fat azz gone ( I hope).

okie52
11/18/2014, 07:18 PM
Needed ONE vote.

Obama was probably going to veto it anyway...keystone has been under consideration for 6 years but he hasn't moved on it even after the EPA said it will have no environmental impact...yet he says he has waited long enough on immigration ( 6 years) so he's going it alone.

REDREX
11/18/2014, 07:23 PM
Obama was probably going to veto it anyway...keystone has been under consideration for 6 years but he hasn't moved on it even after the EPA said it will have no environmental impact...yet he says he has waited long enough on immigration ( 6 years) so he's going it alone.---Its a joke---It will have no impact on the environment and lower gasoline prices. Lets see that would have helped the poorer people in the country----Wonder why Barack hates poor people?

okie52
11/18/2014, 07:29 PM
---Its a joke---It will have no impact on the environment and lower gasoline prices. Lets see that would have helped the poorer people in the country----Wonder why Barack hates poor people?

He even hates poor members of his own family.

Sooner8th
11/18/2014, 07:56 PM
Fellows, The Keystone pipeline is a minor part of that op-ed piece.
The meat of it is how the president is considering pardoning millions of criminals.

I personally think he has lost it. Did you see him walking into the Asian conference chewing gum? I couldn't believe it. Doesn't he have any handlers at all?

Just like REAGAN and HW BUSH did....just sayin'. Chewing gum again, WOW. Hey, are you going to bitch about the color of his suit?

REDREX
11/18/2014, 08:19 PM
I hope Barack does it----It will do nothing but **** off a lot of voters---And then he will lose in court

okie52
11/18/2014, 09:14 PM
I do too. Just push the public behind the new congress

rock on sooner
11/18/2014, 09:34 PM
Needed ONE vote.

Now, fellas, as I sit here, bored out of my skull, watching, for the 87th
time, Roadhouse, I want y'all to keep in mind that havin' yer own way
in Congress, (till it gets to the WH) is a recipe for disaster. Obama may
be stubborn and hell bent for "back atcha", you need to remember that,
many, many times what goes around comes around! Jus sayin' from an
ol' f...ella....heh...

REDREX
11/18/2014, 09:40 PM
Now, fellas, as I sit here, bored out of my skull, watching, for the 87th
time, Roadhouse, I want y'all to keep in mind that havin' yer own way
in Congress, (till it gets to the WH) is a recipe for disaster. Obama may
be stubborn and hell bent for "back atcha", you need to remember that,
many, many times what goes around comes around! Jus sayin' from an
ol' f...ella....heh...---Not much I watch on TV but try NCIS New Orleans not bad----I saw a list of 30 shows that were being renewed or cancelled----I had never seen any of them

rock on sooner
11/18/2014, 09:45 PM
---Not much I watch on TV but try NCIS New Orleans not bad

Ya know, I tried NCIS NOLA, with on demand and watch 2 and 1/2 shows,
just can't buy Bakula as being N'awlins, the other ones , too. Plots were
good but the characters...imo, nope...

REDREX
11/18/2014, 09:48 PM
Ya know, I tried NCIS NOLA, with on demand and watch 2 and 1/2 shows,
just can't buy Bakula as being N'awlins, the other ones , too. Plots were
good but the characters...imo, nope...----Back to the History Channel ----Maybe Cocaine Cowboys will be on this week

okie52
11/18/2014, 09:55 PM
Now, fellas, as I sit here, bored out of my skull, watching, for the 87th
time, Roadhouse, I want y'all to keep in mind that havin' yer own way
in Congress, (till it gets to the WH) is a recipe for disaster. Obama may
be stubborn and hell bent for "back atcha", you need to remember that,
many, many times what goes around comes around! Jus sayin' from an
ol' f...ella....heh...

I'm hopin that the pubs put a new bill on Obamas desk every week even if he vetoes it...then he can be the president of "no".

Sooner8th
11/18/2014, 10:39 PM
Now, fellas, as I sit here, bored out of my skull, watching, for the 87th
time, Roadhouse, I want y'all to keep in mind that havin' yer own way
in Congress, (till it gets to the WH) is a recipe for disaster. Obama may
be stubborn and hell bent for "back atcha", you need to remember that,
many, many times what goes around comes around! Jus sayin' from an
ol' f...ella....heh...

Casablanca was on tcm.

BigTip
11/18/2014, 11:42 PM
Chewing gum again, WOW. Hey, are you going to bitch about the color of his suit?

Yes, if he wore a purple zoot suit to the conference, I would be highly critical. It would show how out of touch he is with reality and not realizing the requirement for an American president to act presidential.

Like chewing gum as he meets other world leaders.

TheHumanAlphabet
11/19/2014, 05:24 AM
Rock, we got a hundred years plus of oil sands...i don't see how a buried pipeline is a "blight" on the landscape.

FaninAma
11/19/2014, 11:25 AM
Casablanca was on tcm.
An all time classsic. I made my kids watch it and they liked it even though it was in black and white.

Sooner in Tampa
11/19/2014, 01:51 PM
Obama was probably going to veto it anyway...keystone has been under consideration for 6 years but he hasn't moved on it even after the EPA said it will have no environmental impact...yet he says he has waited long enough on immigration ( 6 years) so he's going it alone.

Yup...he is going to do himself since he can't get it done the old fashioned way...hammer out a deal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/11/19/president-obama-to-announce-executive-action-on-immigration-thursday/


President Obama will announce Thursday that he will use his executive authority to expand temporary protections to millions of undocumented immigrants, according to several individuals who have been briefed on the decision. Obama will travel to Las Vegas on the heels of that announcement to rally support for his initiative on Friday.

During an appearance at the National Press Club Wednesday, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said Obama will announce "in the coming days... [a] set of comprehensive reforms, within our existing legal authorities, to fix our broken immigration system."

"Legislative action is always preferable," Johnson said. "But we have waited for Congress to act and the Congress has not acted. The president has waited."

Johnson said the administration has concluded it has "wide latitude" to take action. "It can't be that we're not allowed to lift a finger to fix our broken immigration system," he said. "And we will."