Bob Stoops gets a pass because of John Blake

[pappy]

First off, this is not a fire Bob Stoops thread.

Bob Stoops gets a pass from a lot of Sooner fans because he followed the worst coach in the history of Oklahoma Sooners football. We all remember those 3 lifeless seasons under John Blake before Stoops came in. I don't think anyone when people would complain about the coaching staff would ask, "Well who would you bring in who could do better?" at least not sarcastically. People were begging for someone else. Stoops came in and did a great Job. Let's look at his record from 99 - 2004. Why through 2004? 2004 is the last season under Bob Stoops that the Sooners have only lost 1 game. 66-12 went to 3 National titles (1-2 33%) that's a winning % of 84.6% Very acceptable. Would have liked it if we had won against LSU in 2003 for the national title and we probably should have. We didn't look like we deserved to be in the same stadium as USC. No real complaints. I think because of this people don't understand why fans complain about Bob Stoops and question this coaching staff.

Bob Stoops strikes me as a Lloyd Carr or Mack Brown type coach (only wins 1 national title but sticks around) more than a Barry Switzer, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Bud Wilkinson type coach (guys who can win more than 1 national title)

Let me remind you there were coaches before Stoops that were successful at OU. Here are some NCAA records and yeah Bob Stoops has contributed to these, but it shows there have been others who can win here.

Oklahoma has the most 10+ win seasons (34) of any program
Oklahoma has the most 11+ win seasons (20) of any program,
Oklahoma has the fewest losing seasons (12) of any program.
Oklahoma has been ranked No. 1 in the AP Poll (101 weeks) and in the Top 5 (383 weeks) more than any other team.
Oklahoma is recognized with more national titles (16) than any team in the country since 1936.
Following the 2008 Season, ESPN ranked Oklahoma as the most prestigious college football program overall since the advent of the AP Poll in 1936.
Oklahoma was given their 10th preseason No. 1 ranking in 2011, another record.
Oklahoma has the most wins since World War II with 587, and the highest winning percentage (.764) in the country.
Oklahoma is one of two schools (Ohio State) to have appeared in all five BCS bowl games (2001 Orange, 2003 Rose, 2004 Sugar, 2007 Fiesta, 2009 BCS NCG), but they are the only team to win all five awards in the BCS era (2001 Orange Bowl and BCS National Championship, 2003 Rose Bowl, 2011 Fiesta Bowl, 2014 Sugar Bowl).
Oklahoma is the only school to have four coaches with at least 100 wins each (Stoops, Switzer, Wilkinson, Owen).
Oklahoma has had at least one first team all-conference player in 95 of the 96 seasons it has played in a conference.
Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for most consecutive victories with 47-straight (1953–1957).
Oklahoma has scored more points than any team in college football history with 32,855 through 2013.
Oklahoma had an NCAA-record 768 rushing yards in 1988 against Kansas State.
Most weeks ranked No. 1 in the BCS with 20 (through 2012 season).
Most weeks ranked in top 5 in the BCS with 48 (through 2012 season).
Oklahoma has the most rushing yards in a season with 5,635 in 1971, which was 470 yards per game (12 games)
Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for the most points scored in a single season with 702 points through 12 games in the 2008 season (58.5 points per game).
Oklahoma holds the record for most consecutive 60+ point games, scoring 60 or more points for five straight games in 2008[99]
Oklahoma holds the record for most lopsided instate rivalry with a record of 84-17-7 (through 2012 regular season) over Big 12 Conference opponent Oklahoma State. In fact the rivalry is so lopsided that Oklahoma has shut out Oklahoma State more times (28 - not including 0-0 ties) than Oklahoma State has won against Oklahoma.
In the 2010 NFL Draft, Oklahoma became the only school in the history of the NFL Draft to have three players selected in the first four picks of the draft.

Stoops from 2005-Present is 99-30 went to 1 national title game (2008 and lost) that's a winning % of 76.7% and Stoops has averaged 3 losses per season from 2005 - Present.

So to the people who ask if there is someone out there who could come in here and do better than Stoops. My question to you is...Do you think there is a coach out there that could come to OU and not lose 3 games a season?

[aero]

Not sure if someone else could do better. But I do know the days of the Baylors, KSU's, TCU's, etc. playing OU to hopefully keep it somewhat close or a miraculous upset are over. OU may have a big name that people love to say they beat buy OU doesn't have an advantage just being OU. Teams today want their share of the pie and they are going to punch and push OU if they can. If OU wants to regain their place at the top they are going to have to start punching and pushing harder than their opponent. Seems thats been missing for a while. When OU starts mashing people because they are better and can, not just because they are OU, then they'll be the OU they are supposed to be.

[Sooner8th]

First off, this is not a fire Bob Stoops thread.

Bob Stoops gets a pass from a lot of Sooner fans because he followed the worst coach in the history of Oklahoma Sooners football. We all remember those 3 lifeless seasons under John Blake before Stoops came in. I don't think anyone when people would complain about the coaching staff would ask, "Well who would you bring in who could do better?" at least not sarcastically. People were begging for someone else. Stoops came in and did a great Job. Let's look at his record from 99 - 2004. Why through 2004? 2004 is the last season under Bob Stoops that the Sooners have only lost 1 game. 66-12 went to 3 National titles (1-2 33%) that's a winning % of 84.6% Very acceptable. Would have liked it if we had won against LSU in 2003 for the national title and we probably should have. We didn't look like we deserved to be in the same stadium as USC. No real complaints. I think because of this people don't understand why fans complain about Bob Stoops and question this coaching staff.

Bob Stoops strikes me as a Lloyd Carr or Mack Brown type coach (only wins 1 national title but sticks around) more than a Barry Switzer, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Bud Wilkinson type coach (guys who can win more than 1 national title)

Let me remind you there were coaches before Stoops that were successful at OU. Here are some NCAA records and yeah Bob Stoops has contributed to these, but it shows there have been others who can win here.

Oklahoma has the most 10+ win seasons (34) of any program
Oklahoma has the most 11+ win seasons (20) of any program,
Oklahoma has the fewest losing seasons (12) of any program.
Oklahoma has been ranked No. 1 in the AP Poll (101 weeks) and in the Top 5 (383 weeks) more than any other team.
Oklahoma is recognized with more national titles (16) than any team in the country since 1936.
Following the 2008 Season, ESPN ranked Oklahoma as the most prestigious college football program overall since the advent of the AP Poll in 1936.
Oklahoma was given their 10th preseason No. 1 ranking in 2011, another record.
Oklahoma has the most wins since World War II with 587, and the highest winning percentage (.764) in the country.
Oklahoma is one of two schools (Ohio State) to have appeared in all five BCS bowl games (2001 Orange, 2003 Rose, 2004 Sugar, 2007 Fiesta, 2009 BCS NCG), but they are the only team to win all five awards in the BCS era (2001 Orange Bowl and BCS National Championship, 2003 Rose Bowl, 2011 Fiesta Bowl, 2014 Sugar Bowl).
Oklahoma is the only school to have four coaches with at least 100 wins each (Stoops, Switzer, Wilkinson, Owen).
Oklahoma has had at least one first team all-conference player in 95 of the 96 seasons it has played in a conference.
Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for most consecutive victories with 47-straight (1953–1957).
Oklahoma has scored more points than any team in college football history with 32,855 through 2013.
Oklahoma had an NCAA-record 768 rushing yards in 1988 against Kansas State.
Most weeks ranked No. 1 in the BCS with 20 (through 2012 season).
Most weeks ranked in top 5 in the BCS with 48 (through 2012 season).
Oklahoma has the most rushing yards in a season with 5,635 in 1971, which was 470 yards per game (12 games)
Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for the most points scored in a single season with 702 points through 12 games in the 2008 season (58.5 points per game).
Oklahoma holds the record for most consecutive 60+ point games, scoring 60 or more points for five straight games in 2008[99]
Oklahoma holds the record for most lopsided instate rivalry with a record of 84-17-7 (through 2012 regular season) over Big 12 Conference opponent Oklahoma State. In fact the rivalry is so lopsided that Oklahoma has shut out Oklahoma State more times (28 - not including 0-0 ties) than Oklahoma State has won against Oklahoma.
In the 2010 NFL Draft, Oklahoma became the only school in the history of the NFL Draft to have three players selected in the first four picks of the draft.

Stoops from 2005-Present is 99-30 went to 1 national title game (2008 and lost) that's a winning % of 76.7% and Stoops has averaged 3 losses per season from 2005 - Present.

So to the people who ask if there is someone out there who could come in here and do better than Stoops. My question to you is...Do you think there is a coach out there that could come to OU and not lose 3 games a season?

Yes there is, Saban has done it at Alabama. We are O K L A H O M A. The standards and expectations are higher here. It is not so much the losses, it is HOW we lost. That first drive in the second half was amateur hour on the coach's part. The other two losses were incompentence on the coaches part, burning timeouts and not getting the right NUMBER of players on the field after timeouts, which happened again today. To put a fifth year senior in a position to fail miserably then BOTH stoops jump him and yell at him during the drive is total incompetence. I sat there and wondered, if I am a stud high school shut down corner, what am I thinking about this.

[Eielson]

Stoops gets a pass, because of...every coach we've ever had. If he left today, he'd leave on a higher note than Switzer or Wilkinson.

[nighttrain12]

and John 'Boo' Blake got a pass because of Howard Schnellenberger (or however his name is spelled) only being able to last 1 year.

[SoonerorLater]

So what is the lesson learned from the John Blake years? Anybody?

[okiewaker]

I'm willing to give him a pass this season b/c of his record, although I spot a downward trend. He's got the rest if this year and next year to right this mess.

[birddog]

Fire Burt Stooper! Wait, this isn't the bball board. Seriously I have felt like this twice before. When we forgot to get off the bus against the condoms and the beat down invincible gave us.

[bluedogok]

I'm just apprehensive of the attitude of "I am not going to let this program descend into mediocrity" example of a Nebraska and many other high profile programs that have struggled to even become relevant again. Michigan is still in the dumper after a few coaches, look how long it took Notre Dame to become anything but a joke again. Florida is a dumpster fire and it goes on and on.

[Therealsouthsider]

....the only way Stoops leaves on a higher note than Wilkinson or Switzer is if he wins two more rings


ss

[pappy]

Stoops gets a pass, because of...every coach we've ever had. If he left today, he'd leave on a higher note than Switzer or Wilkinson.

Stoops is behind Switzer and Wilkinson. He is 2 national championships below both of them. So right now he is 3rd in my book.

[pappy]

Yes there is, Saban has done it at Alabama. We are O K L A H O M A. The standards and expectations are higher here. It is not so much the losses, it is HOW we lost. That first drive in the second half was amateur hour on the coach's part. The other two losses were incompentence on the coaches part, burning timeouts and not getting the right NUMBER of players on the field after timeouts, which happened again today. To put a fifth year senior in a position to fail miserably then BOTH stoops jump him and yell at him during the drive is total incompetence. I sat there and wondered, if I am a stud high school shut down corner, what am I thinking about this.

That's what I'm saying, other coaches could come in and lose 3 games a year too. Stoops isn't special. Not anymore. Too be honest it would take another John Blake to come into Norman and OU not win 9 or 10 games a season, which is what Bob Stoops is averaging by losing 3 games a year.

[Eielson]

....the only way Stoops leaves on a higher note than Wilkinson or Switzer is if he wins two more rings


ss

Wilkinson didn't win two rings on his way out. He went 24-16-1 over his last 4 seasons.

[Eielson]

That's what I'm saying, other coaches could come in and lose 3 games a year too. Stoops isn't special. Not anymore. Too be honest it would take another John Blake to come into Norman and OU not win 9 or 10 games a season, which is what Bob Stoops is averaging by losing 3 games a year.

These last 7 years have been pretty rough. We only won the conference and finished top ten 4 times!

Yeah, anybody could do that.

-Signed by the people who hired Ron Zook, Lane Kiffin, Charlie Strong, Randy Shannon, and Lane Kiffin (again).

[Sooner91ATL]

The argument that another coach couldn't do better, or to name names as to who could replace Bob, is not a legit premise. History has proven it both ways. I don't know if Bob should be fired. It's the job of the AD to determine that in consultation with the President. I do know, however, and reading the paper this morning it looks like the light has finally come on in the media, that the program is in trouble. We have been mediocre since 2008 (and even then our D was awful). Sure, we win 10 games a year, but in the SEC that number would be half. Our conference is weak, our personnel is good but not great, and our coaching is consistently trending downward. And let's not trot out the Sugar Bowl, which was clearly an aberration at the end of yet another disappointing season and in which we still let Bama amass horrendous yardage and make huge plays.

Back when Blake was fired, I didn't have much hope. We had tried the in house hire with Gibbs, the old man, and then the sentimental favorite. I figured we were now relegate to the middle of the pack or worse. However, our AD did what he was hired to do - which is to get the right fit at the right time. It was Bob Stoops, someone I really had never heard of except maybe in passing. The general feeling on these boards was NOT excitement. But two years later, the results were in.

I trust that if needed, our AD and President will get the right fit for us. I don't know what Bob's problem is, and I don't know if firing him would hurt or help in the long run, but I am sure tired of watching this product. I have never seen players as robotic and unemotional as I have in the last 10 years of this program. I am tired of Bob saying it's all on him, and then nothing changes. There is something wrong systemically. Holy cripes is it possible that Baylor and kstate and tcu have better coaches and players than we do? APPARENTLY, based on empirical results on the field. As a native Oklahoman and Sooner Born and Bred with two degrees from OU, I have a right to expect more. I am a fan. It's Oklahoma. We are now devolving into mediocrity. A new coach with a new system may not be the worst thing in the world. The system in place is not producing championships or recruiting/developing top talent.

[Therealsouthsider]

Wilkinson didn't win two rings on his way out. He went 24-16-1 over his last 4 seasons.

....Wilkinson has 3 NCs, Stoops will never see another

....also a Wilkinson led team never gave up 45 unanswered pts on Owen field and his teams always had the right number of players on the field

ss

[todd_shelton87]

I'm trying to steer my point away from Stoops getting a pass because of John Blake. I agree with the premise of argument, but I can't think of anyone in recent memory that kept challenging for a national title their entire career. The only two notable exceptions are Tom Osborne and Nick Saban. As we all know, Stoops has been slightly above average the past few seasons. The fans accepted the results of the 2009 season, with injuries and emerging young players. The 2010 season had moderately high expectations, and overachieved early and finished the season 11-2.

Then came 2011, you expected OU to play in the national title. The recruiting according to the experts the past 2-3 seasons was elite. We were beat by inferior opponents twice that season, and beat by an equal caliber opponent in OSU. This all stems from the Defensive performance not being as good as prior seasons. Know why OU's home field advantage has disappeared, it's because the crowd feeds off the energy of a championship level defense. Since 2009, OU's defense has been average at best and we wished for years they brought Mike back. It's been time for 5 + years, to overhaul our schemes and bring in fresh blood to run the defense. Honestly don't see much of a difference between Brent Venables and Mike Stoops. The 3-4 front has been negated, with the wide splits and complex routes Big 12 teams run.

We called for Kevin Wilson to be run out of town, we got our wish. Offense hasn't been terrible, but in big games really inconsistent and vanilla. No creativity to attack opposing defenses with strength of skill players. We know that Bob will continue to roam the sidelines, until he decides it’s over. Worse case, he might be forced to help assistants find jobs or fire. 2013 began to show new wrinkles on defense, but 2014 has been a step back of getting better. The talent is there, but player development still lacks.

Current best case scenario, is OU revamping their defensive system this offseason and Heupul landing a small school head coaching job. Next year, assuming all the early draft departures OU shapes up to be a 8-10 win team. I would like to see more excitement from the coaching staff, instead of the arrogance. Perhaps Stoops will be humbled, to challenge the likes of Baylor, K-State, and TCU. They circle OU, so why can't OU circle them and be excited about the challenge. Showing up as OU, only gets you so far.

[IGotNoTiming]

....Wilkinson has 3 NCs, Stoops will never see another

....also a Wilkinson led team never gave up 45 unanswered pts on Owen field and his teams always had the right number of players on the field

ss

Comparing the eras is pointless. More schools compete at the highest level than ever before. I was in school during the end of the Switzer tenure and while some folks pine for that winning percentage, they seem to forget the condition the team was in when he left. The corruption was rampant and because of it, caused a vacuum that spilled us into a long dry spell.
When there is an issue on a Stoops' run team they handle it, report it and protect the integrity of the school and the football program.
Winning at all costs has failed OU in the past. While I would love for the team to be playing at a higher level, the competition for recruiting is at level that neither Wilkinson nor Switzer ever had to face. The landscape of the game is so far removed that we will never see a football team rule like Bud's team again. Parity has leveled the field.

[Mookie91]

I want to knee-jerk like everyone else and Stoops does deserve some of the blame but this program is what it is. Gone are the days of 5-10 teams in the country getting all the best players. To win a National Championship you have to catch lightning in a bottle. Oklahoma under Bob Stoops has been the top of the second tier programs but behind Alabama, Florida State and LSU. They are at the top of tier 2 with USC, Ohio State, Texas, Florida, Auburn, etc. Other than Bradford they haven't had a Championship caliber QB and since 2003 the defense has been non-existent.

That being said the one criticism of the Stoops era that holds true is the team has a tendency to look mentally weak in tough situations and that's coaching. I would be hesitant to show Stoops the door unless "your guy" is available. If I were the AD and Gary Patterson was available I'd seriously consider it.

[Eielson]

....Wilkinson has 3 NCs, Stoops will never see another

....also a Wilkinson led team never gave up 45 unanswered pts on Owen field and his teams always had the right number of players on the field

ss

Do you understand what "going out on a high note" means?

[Eielson]

We have been mediocre since 2008 (and even then our D was awful).

The next step down from elite is not mediocre.

[Therealsouthsider]

The next step down from elite is not mediocre.

....entering the era of college football playoffs that schism is dictating 'elite' and 'mediocre'...if you're not in the playoffs, everything else will be considered an also-ran...for right or wrong

....I'm hoping the system now in place moves to an 8-team playoff as soon as possible

ss

[Sooner91ATL]

For Oklahoma, not winning championships and shoddy defense is mediocre. But statistically, we are about 15th in the country over the past 5 years according to final rankings (giving a generous rank of 30 for 2009). Statistics don't really mean much, as witnessed by the crazy stats for 2009 when we had top 25 offense and top 10 defense but managed to end up unranked. So for a football powerhouse, we are right in the middle of ranked teams over the past 5 years. No national championship in 15 years. No Big 12 championship in 4 years. Mediocre for OU but great for most other programs. And the Big 12 is a middling conference itself.

2014: currently total offense is #26, total defense is #70. Reasonable final record looks like 9-4, depending on bowl team we get. Maybe 10-3. Middle of the big 12 pack.

In 2013 we beat final #7 alabama, #17 osu, and #20 notre dame. We lost to unranked Texas and #13 baylor. Final ranking: #6. 4 players drafted, none higher than 4th round. final stats #52 total offense, #20 total defense.

In 2012 we beat final #19 texas. We lost to #4 notre dame, #6 aTm, and #12 kansas state. Final ranking #15. 6 players drafted, one in first round (OL) the rest no higher than 4th. Total offense #12, total defense #64. co-Big 12 champs but ksu went to the BCS bowl for winning head to head.

In 2011 we beat final #23 florida state and $15 kansas state. We lost to #3 osu, #13 baylor, and unranked texas tech. Final ranking: #16. 7 players drafted, highest one in 3rd round. Total offense #5, total defense #55.

In 2010 we beat final #13 osu, #17 florida state and #20 nebraska. We lost to #18 missouri and #19 aTm. Final ranking: #6. 4 players drafted, highest in 3rd round. Total offense #10, total defense #53. Big 12 champs.

In 2009 we beat no team ranked in the final top 25. We lost to #12 byu, #19 miami, #2 texas, #14 nebraska and #21 texas tech. Final ranking: unranked. 7 players drafted, 4 in the first round. Total offense #23, total defense #8.

[SoonerorLater]

For Oklahoma, not winning championships and shoddy defense is mediocre. But statistically, we are about 15th in the country over the past 5 years according to final rankings (giving a generous rank of 30 for 2009). Statistics don't really mean much, as witnessed by the crazy stats for 2009 when we had top 25 offense and top 10 defense but managed to end up unranked. So for a football powerhouse, we are right in the middle of ranked teams over the past 5 years. No national championship in 15 years. No Big 12 championship in 4 years. Mediocre for OU but great for most other programs. And the Big 12 is a middling conference itself.

2014: currently total offense is #26, total defense is #70. Reasonable final record looks like 9-4, depending on bowl team we get. Maybe 10-3. Middle of the big 12 pack.

In 2013 we beat final #7 alabama, #17 osu, and #20 notre dame. We lost to unranked Texas and #13 baylor. Final ranking: #6. 4 players drafted, none higher than 4th round. final stats #52 total offense, #20 total defense.

In 2012 we beat final #19 texas. We lost to #4 notre dame, #6 aTm, and #12 kansas state. Final ranking #15. 6 players drafted, one in first round (OL) the rest no higher than 4th. Total offense #12, total defense #64. co-Big 12 champs but ksu went to the BCS bowl for winning head to head.

In 2011 we beat final #23 florida state and $15 kansas state. We lost to #3 osu, #13 baylor, and unranked texas tech. Final ranking: #16. 7 players drafted, highest one in 3rd round. Total offense #5, total defense #55.

In 2010 we beat final #13 osu, #17 florida state and #20 nebraska. We lost to #18 missouri and #19 aTm. Final ranking: #6. 4 players drafted, highest in 3rd round. Total offense #10, total defense #53. Big 12 champs.

In 2009 we beat no team ranked in the final top 25. We lost to #12 byu, #19 miami, #2 texas, #14 nebraska and #21 texas tech. Final ranking: unranked. 7 players drafted, 4 in the first round. Total offense #23, total defense #8.

What you have to determine is this just a low ebb in a long term coaches career or a decline that is likely to continue. Unfortunately it usually isn't clear other than in hindsight.

[SoonerStormchaser]

So what is the lesson learned from the John Blake years? Anybody?

Twister is an effective play-calling technique.
Playing (c)rap music during warm-ups is an appropriate team motivator.