Complete letdown.

[8timechamps]

There is very little about today's performance that I can defend. I try to find the positives in our games, but there's virtually nothing to take from this one.

First, I believe Baylor's offense is as talented as there is in the country. They've done an excellent job of recruiting that side of the ball, and they clearly know how to utilize their talent. I have no idea how West Virginia managed to slow them down (I have an idea, but it's not relevant to the main subject of this post). I think it was clear today that Baylor's offense is just better than our defense right now.

However...

Today was the worst called defensive game I can remember from Mike Stoops. It felt like he was scared to death of Baylor, and called the game that way. It boils down to a fairly simple explanation: You can't let Petty get comfortable throwing the ball. The first drive of the second half was infuriating...Petty is too good for us to send pressure and play soft in coverage. If you're going to play your corner's that far back, then what's the point of sending extra guys on pressure? He ate us alive.

We also aren't very good in the secondary right now. Sanchez is a pretty solid DB, but there's a pretty big drop-off after that, and it shows.

Offensively, we looked pretty good in the first quarter, but after that it was a dumpster fire. Let me be clear by saying Baylor's defense isn't good enough to have limited us to 14 points today. Their front line is good, but they have no business holding us to under 200 yards passing.

What I saw today was a Sooner team that got off to a good start, then folded when adversity showed up. That's a matter of coaching. I'm not calling for anyone's head to roll, but there was noting good about the coaching today. Period.

The goals that are set out every year are gone. No playoff. No conference title. At this point, it's about trying to finish the season strong and get the best possible bowl game.

Like everyone here, I'm a diehard Sooner fan, and I'll watch every play of every game the rest of the year, but I really hope the coaches take a good look at what has transpired this season and do everything in their power to resolve whatever issues exist.

The worst part about today's loss is that I felt bad for the players (defense specifically). I didn't see anyone quit, but it was apparent they were ready to end the game.

[olevetonahill]

We had a Great 1st 1/4

[8timechamps]

We had a Great 1st 1/4

True. That's a positive. When it was 14-3, and we had the ball...I starting think it could get ugly. I wasn't wrong, just not the ugly I thought we'd see.

[SicEmBaylor]

How WVU slowed us down is easier for me to understand than how the hell Texas is thrashing WVU right this minute.

[BoulderSooner79]

How WVU slowed us down is easier for me to understand than how the hell Texas is thrashing WVU right this minute.

Hangover from how they lost last week. Not uncommon.

[8timechamps]

How WVU slowed us down is easier for me to understand than how the hell Texas is thrashing WVU right this minute.

The only team more Jekyll/Hyde (than OU) in the conference...is Texas.

[GDC]

True. That's a positive. When it was 14-3, and we had the ball...I starting think it could get ugly. I wasn't wrong, just not the ugly I thought we'd see.

8time,
I always enjoy your posts and totally agree on this one. I'm sure the players didn't quit, but like you said, they sure looked like they wanted it to be over. I did too I guess. I'm concerned that the trust between the players and coaches has diminished over the course of the year. Do you think the Shannon incident could have anything to do with that?
Also, what the heck is up with Julian Wilson?

[Soonerjeepman]

good post.

bu had like 18 penalties for 200 yards against wv..sure that was a big part.

I kept waiting for ms to tell his DB's to jam the receivers....never happened. The talking heads even said that on game day. wv was successful because of that....

hell TAKE A CHANCE cause what we were doing sure wasn't working.

The other HUGE coaching mistake...and I said it at the time...going for the block punt. We finally held them...it was only a 3 point lead, against the wind. Virtually impossible to block clean. HUGE mistake.

I hope, won't happen, that bob and company come out and say "it is on us coaches....we screwed up".

[BermudaSooner]

We did quit. Only thing I disagree with in your post. We quit. 4th and 2 with 7 minutes left, we know they are running. We quit.

I haven't left a game early since the USC debacle. I left today. I quit too.

I've also never heard out students boo before--at least not our team. I'm assuming that was directed at the coaches---and it was well deserved.

[Sooner70]

There appeared discord on the sidelines between Julian Wilson and both Mike/Bob Stoops, as Petty was eating his lunch on those quick out patterns start of 3Q. Eventually, he got pulled & #7 replaced him. Wilson is a good defender in most situations, so I'm wondering if the scheme was wrong, he didn't understand it, or he was getting conflicting info or what. Just seemed total confusion.

[ObiKaTony]

There is very little about today's performance that I can defend. I try to find the positives in our games, but there's virtually nothing to take from this one.

First, I believe Baylor's offense is as talented as there is in the country. They've done an excellent job of recruiting that side of the ball, and they clearly know how to utilize their talent. I have no idea how West Virginia managed to slow them down (I have an idea, but it's not relevant to the main subject of this post). I think it was clear today that Baylor's offense is just better than our defense right now.

However...

Today was the worst called defensive game I can remember from Mike Stoops. It felt like he was scared to death of Baylor, and called the game that way. It boils down to a fairly simple explanation: You can't let Petty get comfortable throwing the ball. The first drive of the second half was infuriating...Petty is too good for us to send pressure and play soft in coverage. If you're going to play your corner's that far back, then what's the point of sending extra guys on pressure? He ate us alive.

We also aren't very good in the secondary right now. Sanchez is a pretty solid DB, but there's a pretty big drop-off after that, and it shows.

Offensively, we looked pretty good in the first quarter, but after that it was a dumpster fire. Let me be clear by saying Baylor's defense isn't good enough to have limited us to 14 points today. Their front line is good, but they have no business holding us to under 200 yards passing.

What I saw today was a Sooner team that got off to a good start, then folded when adversity showed up. That's a matter of coaching. I'm not calling for anyone's head to roll, but there was noting good about the coaching today. Period.

The goals that are set out every year are gone. No playoff. No conference title. At this point, it's about trying to finish the season strong and get the best possible bowl game.

Like everyone here, I'm a diehard Sooner fan, and I'll watch every play of every game the rest of the year, but I really hope the coaches take a good look at what has transpired this season and do everything in their power to resolve whatever issues exist.

The worst part about today's loss is that I felt bad for the players (defense specifically). I didn't see anyone quit, but it was apparent they were ready to end the game.



Agree with everything you said but take exception that you don't want anybody's head to to Roll. Why? These guys get paid big time bucks, and if they can't deliver why have them on this side of the ball. Our offense stinks, it's terrible. Josh needs to go. I'm a sooner fan, and I expect quality. This ain't quality no where near it. 14 damn points? The third down conversion rate? 3 losses. Why on earth would you not want change?

[Eielson]

I'm going to disagree on the "nobody quit" statement. It seemed like just about everybody quit early in the second half. Coaching staff included.

For me, as bad as we played, I really only saw two issues (other than the fact that we quit).

1) TK took too many hits. I've been saying this since the Alabama game, and I'll say it again...the more Knight carries it, the worse he throws. He looked good throwing it in the first quarter, but he was awful as the game progressed (just like TCU). Ultimately, that's just an issue we're always going to have to work with. If you're going to run him early, you have to commit to the run, because he won't be able to throw later, and I have no idea why we abandoned it. Ross averaged 11.8 YPC, Ford averaged 5.0 YPC, and Perrine averaged 4.2 YPC. Why did those 3 only combine for 19 carries? That should have been what we relied on.

In my opinion, we have three options next year, and I'm fine with all of them. The first one is to rely on our excellent group of RB's to take care of the running game by themselves, and have Knight only run the ball once or twice a game when the defense is cheating really badly, or we're really desperate. Some people don't think Knight is capable of this. I do, and I use the KSU and Alabama games as evidence.

The second option is to play Mayfield, Hansen, or Thomas. If Knight can't get the job done as a pure passer, I'm sure one of them can. Admittedly, I'd struggle betting on any of them individually right now, but I'd bet at least one of them can step up.

The final option is to play two quarterbacks. Play Knight when we want to run the ball down their throats. As I said, he's not very good throwing the ball after he's been hit a few times, but he's good enough that the defense will have to be honest. When we're looking to throw the ball a little more, bring in whoever emerges from our pocket passers. I think this is a very intriguing idea, but I doubt Stoops would ever go for it. Another loss could push him to desperation, though.

2) Julian Wilson couldn't do what we asked him to do today. Either put him in a position where he can succeed, or put somebody else in there. He got torched all game. Next year, we won't have to worry about this, as he is a senior. Hopefully somebody steps up next year, and we should benefit from a fully healthy Sanchez.

Defensively, we did very well against the run. Baylor only averaged 2.8 YPC. With the exception of Coleman, Baylor only threw for about 150 yards. Coleman was about half of their offense by himself, and that's not acceptable.

All in all, I'm incredibly disappointed, but I don't think the sky is falling for this program as a whole.

[8timechamps]

8time,
I always enjoy your posts and totally agree on this one. I'm sure the players didn't quit, but like you said, they sure looked like they wanted it to be over. I did too I guess. I'm concerned that the trust between the players and coaches has diminished over the course of the year. Do you think the Shannon incident could have anything to do with that?
Also, what the heck is up with Julian Wilson?

I do think there's some kind of a trust issue between the players and coaches. I don't know to what extent, but I think that showed itself today with the Julian Wilson incident.

Mike Stoops was asked about Wilson's actions to start the second half, and he said "oh, he was upset because he couldn't tackle anyone". I have no idea what he was referring to, but I think Wilson was absolutely pissed off that we were in a soft zone and Petty was just moving the ball down the field. It appeared to me that he was mad at the scheme. Regardless, I don't think he or the coaches handled that well (but in the heat of competition, that'll happen).

As for the Shannon thing, I look at it this way: As a fan (without any relationship at all to Shannon), I felt like he got the raw end of the deal. If I feel that way, I can only imagine what the kids that are close to him, must feel. The only thing I don't know is what Stoops/Coaches said to the players, or how they have dealt with it internally.

I don't think the trust issue (assuming there is one) has much to do with Shannon, but it's apparent that (Mike) Stoops doesn't trust his seconary.

[8timechamps]

We did quit. Only thing I disagree with in your post. We quit. 4th and 2 with 7 minutes left, we know they are running. We quit.

I haven't left a game early since the USC debacle. I left today. I quit too.

I've also never heard out students boo before--at least not our team. I'm assuming that was directed at the coaches---and it was well deserved.

That's fair. Honestly, I was removed (mentally) from the game at that point. I had it on, but wasn't paying attention to it like I normally do.

[8timechamps]

Agree with everything you said but take exception that you don't want anybody's head to to Roll. Why? These guys get paid big time bucks, and if they can't deliver why have them on this side of the ball. Our offense stinks, it's terrible. Josh needs to go. I'm a sooner fan, and I expect quality. This ain't quality no where near it. 14 damn points? The third down conversion rate? 3 losses. Why on earth would you not want change?

Because I believe that Stoops has earned the right to redeem himself for this one. The TCU/KSU losses were just close games that didn't go our way (mostly because of execution). I agree this loss was bad, but not 'fire the winningest coach in school history' bad.

Of course I want to see a national title, who doesn't? I'm also a realist and understand how unrealistic it is to expect that every year. But, most importantly, if changes are going to be made, who am I to demand that? I trust Stoops, and I trust him to make that call if needed.

[8timechamps]

I'm going to disagree on the "nobody quit" statement. It seemed like just about everybody quit early in the second half. Coaching staff included.

For me, as bad as we played, I really only saw two issues (other than the fact that we quit).

1) TK took too many hits. I've been saying this since the Alabama game, and I'll say it again...the more Knight carries it, the worse he throws. He looked good throwing it in the first quarter, but he was awful as the game progressed (just like TCU). Ultimately, that's just an issue we're always going to have to work with. If you're going to run him early, you have to commit to the run, because he won't be able to throw later, and I have no idea why we abandoned it. Ross averaged 11.8 YPC, Ford averaged 5.0 YPC, and Perrine averaged 4.2 YPC. Why did those 3 only combine for 19 carries? That should have been what we relied on.

In my opinion, we have three options next year, and I'm fine with all of them. The first one is to rely on our excellent group of RB's to take care of the running game by themselves, and have Knight only run the ball once or twice a game when the defense is cheating really badly, or we're really desperate. Some people don't think Knight is capable of this. I do, and I use the KSU and Alabama games as evidence.

The second option is to play Mayfield, Hansen, or Thomas. If Knight can't get the job done as a pure passer, I'm sure one of them can. Admittedly, I'd struggle betting on any of them individually right now, but I'd bet at least one of them can step up.

The final option is to play two quarterbacks. Play Knight when we want to run the ball down their throats. As I said, he's not very good throwing the ball after he's been hit a few times, but he's good enough that the defense will have to be honest. When we're looking to throw the ball a little more, bring in whoever emerges from our pocket passers. I think this is a very intriguing idea, but I doubt Stoops would ever go for it. Another loss could push him to desperation, though.

2) Julian Wilson couldn't do what we asked him to do today. Either put him in a position where he can succeed, or put somebody else in there. He got torched all game. Next year, we won't have to worry about this, as he is a senior. Hopefully somebody steps up next year, and we should benefit from a fully healthy Sanchez.

Defensively, we did very well against the run. Baylor only averaged 2.8 YPC. With the exception of Coleman, Baylor only threw for about 150 yards. Coleman was about half of their offense by himself, and that's not acceptable.

All in all, I'm incredibly disappointed, but I don't think the sky is falling for this program as a whole.

As mentioned in above reply, I became disconnected (mentally) about half way through the 4th quarter, so I can't say for certain that our guys didn't quit. From what I paid attention to (the first 3 1/5 quarters), I didn't see any quit. I saw a lot of frustration from guys, and I saw a lot of guys put in bad positions, but I didn't see anyone quit. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just didn't see it during that time I paid attention.

I'm disappointed. I also believe that's on me for buying into the post-Bama Sugar Bowl hype. I overlooked the fact that we lost most of our WR production and key members of the secondary. I still don't think Baylor is that much better than we are, we just didn't show up today (across the board). I agree, the sky is not falling. There are issues, but I believe they are correctable.

I haven't lost faith in Stoops.

[Snrinhouston]

This just confirms (again) what many of us have known for awhile. Stoops and Co. don't have what it takes to compete for another NC. Not gonna happen. Get used to 2-4 regular season losses every year and no bid in the 4 team playoff.

[8timechamps]

There appeared discord on the sidelines between Julian Wilson and both Mike/Bob Stoops, as Petty was eating his lunch on those quick out patterns start of 3Q. Eventually, he got pulled & #7 replaced him. Wilson is a good defender in most situations, so I'm wondering if the scheme was wrong, he didn't understand it, or he was getting conflicting info or what. Just seemed total confusion.

I think the argument had to do with Julian not being happy with the scheme (and watching guys catch the ball 10 yards in front of him). He left the game because he broke his thumb (Jordan Thomas, #7, was his replacement). It was conflict/confusion and just overall ugly.

[ObiKaTony]

Because I believe that Stoops has earned the right to redeem himself for this one. The TCU/KSU losses were just close games that didn't go our way (mostly because of execution). I agree this loss was bad, but not 'fire the winningest coach in school history' bad.

Of course I want to see a national title, who doesn't? I'm also a realist and understand how unrealistic it is to expect that every year. But, most importantly, if changes are going to be made, who am I to demand that? I trust Stoops, and I trust him to make that call if needed.


I am stating without equivocation that firing stoops would be a mistake. I'm also saying with certainty that if no one is let go after this stoops needs to be evaluated. It's been 13 years since a title, and it appears we aren't sniffing it for a while, at Oklahoma, that is unacceptable. Also, consider stoops pay, I have every right (as you do) to state the obvious. In general, we are a poorly coached team...

[Rogue]

Mike Stoops was asked about Wilson's actions to start the second half, and he said "oh, he was upset because he couldn't tackle anyone". I have no idea what he was referring to, but I think Wilson was absolutely pissed off that we were in a soft zone and Petty was just moving the ball down the field. It appeared to me that he was mad at the scheme. Regardless, I don't think he or the coaches handled that well (but in the heat of competition, that'll happen).



JW looked to be out of line, but if Mike said that he should apologize. Leadership 101 is praising publicly and critiquing privately. That's a chicken-**** comment. Or am I misunderstanding the context? I just can't stand it when coaches throw players under the bus.

[8timechamps]

I am stating without equivocation that firing stoops would be a mistake. I'm also saying with certainty that if no one is let go after this stoops needs to be evaluated. It's been 13 years since a title, and it appears we aren't sniffing it for a while, at Oklahoma, that is unacceptable. Also, consider stoops pay, I have every right (as you do) to state the obvious. In general, we are a poorly coached team...

Fair enough. I completely agree that a major evaluation needs to occur. Like I said, I'm not sold that Josh needs to go, but if he is the issue on offense, then Stoops needs to make that decision. Same for the defense.

I just don't get worked up over Stoops' paycheck. I think all coaches are overpaid, but it's not like the next guy would be making significantly less. It is what it is, and it's not going to change. You do have the right to complain about Stoops (or any of the coaches for that matter), and they should expect that...it comes with the job.

[azheat4u]

A few of you have said we didn't come to play or weren't prepared. I disagree, we were in control of the game after the first quarter but the int changed it all. We don't have any leadership on this team to get these guys to overcome adversity.
When the pick-nearly 6 happened you could see our players heads drop.
Lack of leadership is killing us!

[8timechamps]

JW looked to be out of line, but if Mike said that he should apologize. Leadership 101 is praising publicly and critiquing privately. That's a chicken-**** comment. Or am I misunderstanding the context? I just can't stand it when coaches throw players under the bus.

I'm not a fan of players yelling at coaches period. Even if JW was right, that's not the way to express it...and not the place. However, things get heated in competition, and that stuff happens (it's certainly not the first or last time). I think Mike was trying to deflect when asked about the situation. I think he was saying "Julian couln't tackle anyone" with the implication that he (Julian) was mad at himself and that's why he was frustrated. I don't think Mike meant it as JW was playing bad and that's why they were yelling. It's hard to put it in text, but I took it as Mike trying to evade the question (while not calling out JW). I do NOT think Mike was throwing JW under the bus (I hope that makes more sense). I think anyone that calls out a college athlete in public is pathetic (I'm not talking about you or I on a message board, but the media, coaches, etc).

[8timechamps]

A few of you have said we didn't come to play or weren't prepared. I disagree, we were in control of the game after the first quarter but the int changed it all. We don't have any leadership on this team to get these guys to overcome adversity.
When the pick-nearly 6 happened you could see our players heads drop.
Lack of leadership is killing us!

I think you could be on the mark.

Offensively, we don't seem to have much leadership on the field. I think it's also apparent how much we lack Colvin's leadership in the secondary. I didn't think we'd have a problem with that, but it seems to be an issue (not just today either).

I agree that we started the game well. The pick 6 started the snowball down the hill and we were never able to get out of the way.

[BoulderSooner79]

Hard to say where the turning point was. The INT certainly hurt, but we responded by getting the big play to Quick. But then we couldn't finish and Hunnicutt missed another short FG. But the roughing the punter call after the defense got a stop seemed to be the big momentum turn that never switched back.

[Rogue]

Thanks for the context, 8time. That helps, and it's why I asked.

[hawaii 5-0]

I think the letdown started with the missed FG.

5-0

[REDREX]

At least Notre Dame lost today

[bluedogok]

good post.

bu had like 18 penalties for 200 yards against wv..sure that was a big part.

I kept waiting for ms to tell his DB's to jam the receivers....never happened. The talking heads even said that on game day. wv was successful because of that....

hell TAKE A CHANCE cause what we were doing sure wasn't working.

The other HUGE coaching mistake...and I said it at the time...going for the block punt. We finally held them...it was only a 3 point lead, against the wind. Virtually impossible to block clean. HUGE mistake.

I hope, won't happen, that bob and company come out and say "it is on us coaches....we screwed up".
The only reason why I think they played so soft at the corners was Baylor's preferred offense is the over the top passing game and for years Mike's defense played aggressive and got burned deep often. The soft corners can work if you make tackles, the defense couldn't all day long and 7 yard outs became 30 yard pass plays. They chose a death by a thousand cuts rather than the quick kill. The talent just isn't at the level needed to contain an offense like that especially when your own offense shoots itself in the foot all day.

I also feel that the punt block was a turning point, their return game is better than the block game. A punt block is a high risk, minimal chance of success play. It was a poor, desperate call.

[8timechamps]

The only reason why I think they played so soft at the corners was Baylor's preferred offense is the over the top passing game and for years Mike's defense played aggressive and got burned deep often. The soft corners can work if you make tackles, the defense couldn't all day long and 7 yard outs became 30 yard pass plays. They chose a death by a thousand cuts rather than the quick kill. The talent just isn't at the level needed to contain an offense like that especially when your own offense shoots itself in the foot all day.

I also feel that the punt block was a turning point, their return game is better than the block game. A punt block is a high risk, minimal chance of success play. It was a poor, desperate call.

Agreed (about the soft coverage).

The penalty on the punt was a big turning point. Just seemed like a crazy call. We seemed to have played so conservative all year on punt return, and then we bring pressure (on a punt into the wind). If it works, we're probably having a different conversation. It didn't, and the Bears went on to score on that drive.

[rock on sooner]

At least Notre Dame lost today
As a "I remember Dick Lynch", it made me smile when I saw that in the paper!

On other matters, the 8-10 yard cushions allowed Petty to pick us apart...anyone
else remember Josh and his "dink and dunk" all the way to the NC? It appeared
so obvious to all who watched the game, who announced the game and who
cringed during the thumping...my remark to my wife was that Baylor was going
to do to us what we did to ISU. I don't think it was an issue of tackling...look at
what WVU did to Petty...jammed his receivers every time...early, often, hard...
that's what safeties are for, to back up cb's/db's while Striker/Grissom and Co.
get in Petty's face, also early, often and hard. Petty gets the ball away in 3 or 4
seconds, when he has someone to throw to....ummm, just a guess here, but if his
boyz are jammed, he doesn't have the time and, well, you can figure it out from
here.

After OUr two 3 and outs were followed with two TD's, IMHO, had our D done the
above, we all would not be wringing our hands, hoping for a decent bowl and thinking
about how "young" we are...(truly, look right now at our QB's, RB's, WR's (except Shep).
We have a monster front line and healthy rotation there, a$$ kickers on the D's front
seven and talented (learning) secondary. Having said all that, it is up to the coaching
staff....jus sayin....

[SicEmBaylor]

If nothing else, OU was evidently a very good host. Reports from Baylor fans on their experience in Norman (which is in line with my experiences of watching games in Norman) were overwhelmingly positive.

http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283559

[OUmillenium]

A few of you have said we didn't come to play or weren't prepared. I disagree, we were in control of the game after the first quarter but the int changed it all. We don't have any leadership on this team to get these guys to overcome adversity.
When the pick-nearly 6 happened you could see our players heads drop.
Lack of leadership is killing us!

This is so true. I had a bad feeling about this game so I made other plans Sat morning and DVRd the game. Planned to pick it up at halftime and not have to watch any commercials (yay!). My wife mentioned that TK through a game changing interception and I was like, Im sure he did but probably not that big of a deal. She was dead on. Sooners were looking good til that happened and its like the team said, "here we go again" and gave up.