A big FU to the coaching staff

[achiro]

Wait until it doesn't matter anymore to start using Knights upside. Even letting Cody run and it looks like he could step in if knight went down. So seriously, wtf!?!? I'm so tired of this BS boring, predictable offense in games that matter. We will never win another NC until the coaching staff is willing to take some risks. (And I'm not talking goofy tricky dick plays)

[Eielson]

Even letting Cody run and it looks like he could step in if knight went down.

What game are you watching?

[JLEW1818]

Wait until it doesn't matter anymore to start using Knights upside. Even letting Cody run and it looks like he could step in if knight went down. So seriously, wtf!?!? I'm so tired of this BS boring, predictable offense in games that matter. We will never win another NC until the coaching staff is willing to take some risks. (And I'm not talking goofy tricky dick plays)

Agreed

[MichiganSooner]

We will never win another NC until the coaching staff is willing to take some risks. (And I'm not talking goofy tricky dick plays)

So what are you talking about? What risks do you want to see?

[achiro]

What game are you watching?
Yes, they look great this week, and yes I realize it's Iowa State.

IF the play calling had been even close to this against Kstate(a zone read instead of handoff to Perine 3 times and they would have scored), OU would have walked away with the game. Playing to keep the QB healthy instead of playing to win is this coaching staffs mantra.

[Eielson]

Yes, they look great this week, and yes I realize it's Iowa State.

IF the play calling had been even close to this against Kstate(a zone read instead of handoff to Perine 3 times and they would have scored), OU would have walked away with the game. Playing to keep the QB healthy instead of playing to win is this coaching staffs mantra.

I'm talking about Cody Thomas.

[achiro]

Wait, is Josh on the sideline or was that a clip from before the game?

[EatLeadCommie]

Ditto. Here we are thumping a conference foe and I'm just furious that we finally start running with TK. Knowing Stoops, this will be the only game this year.

[CatfishSooner]

TK is a great runner

[rock on sooner]

TK is a great runner

Not sure about "great" but he is effective...woulda been a very good
wishbone QB...enough arm to throw 7-10 times a game...

[aero]

Yea. Whoopass on ISU. Whatever. When we start doing it consistently against quality opponents I'll get excited again. Seems like I'm watching Groundhog Day. We bully inferior teams and pretend we're world beaters and then look like posers against good teams. Sorry, just hard to get excited after another season when we're out of the mix early.

[rm50]

I think Big Game Bob turned into Conservative Bob about 8 to 10 years ago. He has the formula down...recruit well...play not to lose games (conservative)....Win 10+ games a year... The fans are happy...the school is happy...go home and set in the easy chair and collect the 5 million every year. I am not really complaining because as a fan I like to see them win. The only problem is this formula doesn't win National Championships.

[SoonerMachine]

I think Big Game Bob turned into Conservative Bob about 8 to 10 years ago. He has the formula down...recruit well...play not to lose games (conservative)....Win 10+ games a year... The fans are happy...the school is happy...go home and set in the easy chair and collect the 5 million every year. I am not really complaining because as a fan I like to see them win. The only problem is this formula doesn't win National Championships.

Yep, yes sir you are correct.

[SoonerMachine]

Wait until it doesn't matter anymore to start using Knights upside. Even letting Cody run and it looks like he could step in if knight went down. So seriously, wtf!?!? I'm so tired of this BS boring, predictable offense in games that matter. We will never win another NC until the coaching staff is willing to take some risks. (And I'm not talking goofy tricky dick plays)

Agreed.

[SoonerorLater]

Not if this board is a good indicator

[OUmillenium]

Wait until it doesn't matter anymore to start using Knights upside. Even letting Cody run and it looks like he could step in if knight went down. So seriously, wtf!?!? I'm so tired of this BS boring, predictable offense in games that matter. We will never win another NC until the coaching staff is willing to take some risks. (And I'm not talking goofy tricky dick plays)

With you and so are the postgame callers on the Commercial Animal.

Our "edit" coaching staff (head coach?) dooesn't expand our offense properly until its too late and we have 2 Ls in the loss column and our "championship" season is down the toilet. This has happened a few years. Too vanilla, too much instead of playing aggressive, well-game planned football. Defense has had some let downs and its not OK to give up 30+ points ever, but it should not take 6-7 games to get the offense where it needs to be by game 3. I'm not up for trick plays all the time, but we finally broke out the type of diversity on offense that TK needs to be successful. Finally

[achiro]

So what are you talking about? What risks do you want to see?

Depends on the players we have and what their upsides are. Knight's upside is his feet, he has his moments as a passer but is very inconsistent and gets into really bad grooves. When he is off, why in the hell do they keep calling low percentage passing plays over and over. It seems that the worse we are doing at something, the more they call it. Almost a "by GAAAWD we are going to prove to someone that we CAN do this" attitude. Remember WVU in the first half when there were like 4 3 and outs in a row without a single run play, that's what I'm talking about. Then TCU and KState both just load for bear against the RB run up the middle just daring us to throw and we just keep hammering it for 1 yard or less over and over. So many opportunities for Knight to run a zone read, keep it and step around the corner for yardage in those games(including what should have been a td that ended up a missed FG at the end of the game). The only time I remember it was the play Knight got hurt, it worked other than the penalty.
Watching them play balls out like they did today is awesome, except today when it just pissed me off because it showed me what could have been. ;)

[OUmillenium]

Wait, is Josh on the sideline or was that a clip from before the game?

He came down out of the press box late is my guess as OU was prob not getting the ball back again.

[limey_sooner]

Never understood the whole holding your full offense back to supposedly surprise better opponents anyway. Surely if you show wrinkles that are effective against lesser opponents or earlier in the year that just means other teams have the problem of having to scheme against a more diverse offense.

[EatLeadCommie]

I think Big Game Bob turned into Conservative Bob about 8 to 10 years ago. He has the formula down...recruit well...play not to lose games (conservative)....Win 10+ games a year... The fans are happy...the school is happy...go home and set in the easy chair and collect the 5 million every year. I am not really complaining because as a fan I like to see them win. The only problem is this formula doesn't win National Championships.

You are correct, but the problem is that he could play decidedly un-conservative in this craptastic conference we are in and still win 10+ games a year. Oh, and we may not win 10 this year.

[8timechamps]

Yay...we just beat the **** out of an Iowa State team that has played pretty damn good lately, and had one of our best overall games of the year...let's bitch about it! Winning sucks!

[achiro]

Yay...we just beat the **** out of an Iowa State team that has played pretty damn good lately, and had one of our best overall games of the year...let's bitch about it! Winning sucks!

not the point of the thread at all. I wasn't all that concerned about todays game and we would have won with the same vanilla play calling as before(not as dominantly) This game just shows that the plays and the ability have been there, just not used when they should have been which resulted in 2 losses, at least one of which shouldn't have happened.

[aero]

Yay...we just beat the **** out of an Iowa State team that has played pretty damn good lately, and had one of our best overall games of the year...let's bitch about it! Winning sucks!

I don't think anyone's is bitching about winning. Regardless of how well ISU has appeared to be playing they are still 2-6 and we should pound them. This is typical and what a lot of people are getting tired of. Beating the crap out of the ISU's and then crapping our pants in the games that could solidify us as contenders. I'm sure there a ton of schools that would be oh so happy to win 8 or 10 games a year and go to any bowl game. But it's not wrong for OU to be expected to seriously contend almost every year for a title. Love the win today. Love any time OU wins. But it's just another win over a not so good team that we should blow out.

[FaninAma]

Yea. Whoopass on ISU. Whatever. When we start doing it consistently against quality opponents I'll get excited again. Seems like I'm watching Groundhog Day. We bully inferior teams and pretend we're world beaters and then look like posers against good teams. Sorry, just hard to get excited after another season when we're out of the mix early.
That's the point of the OP. Stoop's and Josh puckered during the TCU and KSU games especially at the end of both games during short yardage situations. Those losses essentialy pisses the season away.

[Eielson]

Even letting Cody run and it looks like he could step in if knight went down. So seriously, wtf!?!?

Stats are final...

1/8 for 11 yards and 1 interception. QBR of 0.9.

[achiro]

Stats are final...

1/8 for 11 yards and 1 interception. QBR of 0.9.

Interesting that of everything I've said, this is what you dwell on. Cody was working with a lot of subs. I only noted that on the one zone read at he ran, he looked to have decent wheels. If knight were to go down he could do a decent job as a back up(see the drive vs Kstate)

[Eielson]

Interesting that of everything I've said, this is what you dwell on. Cody was working with a lot of subs. I only noted that on the one zone read at he ran, he looked to have decent wheels. If knight were to go down he could do a decent job as a back up(see the drive vs Kstate)

You only wrote a short paragraph, so it's not like you wrote much, and that was an important part of it.

[cherokeebrewer]

I resent the thread title...not so much the criticism of the coaching staff because that's what OU fans do, but The "FU" is lowgrade.

[achiro]

I resent the thread title...not so much the criticism of the coaching staff because that's what OU fans do, but The "FU" is lowgrade.

Freakin' Unreal is lowgrade?

[aero]

Freakin' Unreal is lowgrade?

I thought you just had a speech impairment and it was Fumbs Up. :encouragement:

[Therealsouthsider]

....playing not to lose, prevent defense, wasting time-outs, substituting someone out when they have the hot-hand....it's all basically over coaching....and losing football


ss

[Soonerwake]

I've waited two weeks to come back here, and this is the first thread I see. And, this after a 45 point win on the road.

Amazing...

[swardboy]

Wait, is Josh on the sideline or was that a clip from before the game?

That was a pre-game clip.

I feel the coaches deservedly are getting criticism we're giving them. Today's plays were all available in our losses, and there's no rational reason for excluding them. We should play to win, not hold our cards. It's like our boys are given three bullets and a six-shooter early in the season regardless of the opponent. My gut says every year it's the same formula for mediocrity. And it's not fair to the players. HURRAY for today's win. BOO because it exposed our evolving seasonal philosophy.

[Blue]

I've waited two weeks to come back here, and this is the first thread I see. And, this after a 45 point win on the road.

Amazing...

Please leave notes of what you would like to read and see next time so we can accommodate you...thx.

[8timechamps]

not the point of the thread at all. I wasn't all that concerned about todays game and we would have won with the same vanilla play calling as before(not as dominantly) This game just shows that the plays and the ability have been there, just not used when they should have been which resulted in 2 losses, at least one of which shouldn't have happened.


Here's the problem with that; in neither loss was the offense really an issue:

vs. TCU 460 yards offense (309 passing/152 rushing)
vs. KSU 533 yards offense (335 passing/198 rushing)

It wasn't the lack of a Trevor Knight running game that cost us either of those two games.

You want to find things to question, you can start with the conservative defense we played in both of those games. Or wonder why a phenomenal kicker has such a bad day. Those things are understandable, but to (in any way) think that not running Trevor more was responsible for our two loses seems like a big reach.

[Eielson]

Here's the problem with that; in neither loss was the offense really an issue:

vs. TCU 460 yards offense (309 passing/152 rushing)
vs. KSU 533 yards offense (335 passing/198 rushing)

It wasn't the lack of a Trevor Knight running game that cost us either of those two games.

You want to find things to question, you can start with the conservative defense we played in both of those games. Or wonder why a phenomenal kicker has such a bad day. Those things are understandable, but to (in any way) think that not running Trevor more was responsible for our two loses seems like a big reach.

I actually think the TCU loss was due to TOO much running with Knight. He doesn't take hits well, and I'm pretty sure that's why he was so off in the second half.

KSU game was pretty clearly the kicker.

[Mookie91]

Newsflash Iowa State stinks, the 4th string RB for OU rushed for 70 yards. You game plan for the talent you're going to play, Knight could've run against K State but TCU was stopping the run and daring Knight to pass.

[ObiKaTony]

Yay...we just beat the **** out of an Iowa State team that has played pretty damn good lately, and had one of our best overall games of the year...let's bitch about it! Winning sucks!

If you think that was the overall premise of the post please re-evaluate. This team should have gone to the playoff with ease. The play calling has sucked, not conducive to the teams skill sets specifically knight. Over 100 yards rushing, and the dude is super quick, and yet we had to go 3-24 on third downs twice occurng during the season while losing 2 games to open up the playbook on a national title team. The criticism is valid, and your sanctimony is a overdone...

[ObiKaTony]

Knight has had clear gaping lanes to run through all damn year...he was TOLd to hand that ball off. If you think knight ran too much against tcu you are ignorant as hell. They were busted plays, not designed read option plays. I believe we ran him once designed off a freakin draw...

[ObiKaTony]

Everything in life is relative- this season sucks relative to our talent, and expectations...

[cherokeebrewer]

I've waited two weeks to come back here, and this is the first thread I see. And, this after a 45 point win on the road.

Amazing...

Yes, after a 45 point win, you would think the OP could have used better quality phrasing in the title and then voiced his concerns about the coaching staff in the body of the thread.

[aero]

Everything in life is relative- this season sucks relative to our talent, and expectations...

I agree with this and your 2 above it. I want to say a big fu to Bama, LSU, Auburn, USC, and a few others after we win the next title. This sure seemed like a good year to do it but it seems like the coaches cost us this season. At least that's what my eyes and mind tell me. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not going to feel better about this season by beating ISU or KU.

[ObiKaTony]

Here's the problem with that; in neither loss was the offense really an issue:

vs. TCU 460 yards offense (309 passing/152 rushing)
vs. KSU 533 yards offense (335 passing/198 rushing)

It wasn't the lack of a Trevor Knight running game that cost us either of those two games.

You want to find things to question, you can start with the conservative defense we played in both of those games. Or wonder why a phenomenal kicker has such a bad day. Those things are understandable, but to (in any way) think that not running Trevor more was responsible for our two loses seems like a big reach.

Baylor scored 70 something on tcu so let's keep that in perspective. Our defense got turnovers at all the right times and the offense couldn't do squat...

It's amazing me to me to see the play calling yesterday and not equate that successes to our lack of succuss in the previous games...it's stunning.

[OUmillenium]

Knight has had clear gaping lanes to run through all damn year...he was TOLd to hand that ball off. If you think knight ran too much against tcu you are ignorant as hell. They were busted plays, not designed read option plays. I believe we ran him once designed off a freakin draw...

This^ to the koolaid drinkers

[8timechamps]

If you think that was the overall premise of the post please re-evaluate. This team should have gone to the playoff with ease. The play calling has sucked, not conducive to the teams skill sets specifically knight. Over 100 yards rushing, and the dude is super quick, and yet we had to go 3-24 on third downs twice occurng during the season while losing 2 games to open up the playbook on a national title team. The criticism is valid, and your sanctimony is a overdone...

The criticism is valid? Well, that's your opinion. I happen to disagree with it, and backed my point up with some actual information/statistics. Other than saying "We need to run Knight more", what, exactly, is your argument? Is it just that "the dude is super quick"?

Again, the offense wasn't an issue in either of the two games we lost. Never mind the fact that ISU played a completely different defense than just about everyone we've played this year, or that they are pretty terrible on defense anyway. Knight ran for a lot of yards in a blowout win, so clearly that's the key...right?!

[8timechamps]

Baylor scored 70 something on tcu so let's keep that in perspective. Our defense got turnovers at all the right times and the offense couldn't do squat...

It's amazing me to me to see the play calling yesterday and not equate that successes to our lack of succuss in the previous games...it's stunning.

That's your argument, what Baylor did against TCU?

I find it stunning that you think the play calling was the reason we beat the hell out of Iowa State yesterday. I'm starting to wonder if you really know the game, or just like to stir the pot.

[Eielson]

Newsflash Iowa State stinks, the 4th string RB for OU rushed for 70 yards. You game plan for the talent you're going to play, Knight could've run against K State but TCU was stopping the run and daring Knight to pass.

ISU may suck, but their worst loss was by 21 points this year...and we beat them by 45. If it weren't for 12 unanswered 4th quarter points, they would have beaten K-State. We played phenomenally. No two ways about it.

[Eielson]

If you think knight ran too much against tcu you are ignorant as hell. They were busted plays, not designed read option plays. I believe we ran him once designed off a freakin draw...

Does that somehow change the fact that TK got tackled 13 times? I was under the impression that you could just as easily get hurt on a busted play as you could on a designed run.

So yeah...TK ran too much against TCU.

[ObiKaTony]

Does that somehow change the fact that TK got tackled 13 times? I was under the impression that you could just as easily get hurt on a busted play as you could on a designed run.

So yeah...TK ran too much against TCU.

So yeah, you insinuated that the coaches had Trevor knight run and now your argument is fading- btw, a designed read where knight has an opening choosing his slide or ob is a hell a lot safer than getting tackled out of nowhere-(unless you are Jason white)

[ObiKaTony]

That's your argument, what Baylor did against TCU?

I find it stunning that you think the play calling was the reason we beat the hell out of Iowa State yesterday. I'm starting to wonder if you really know the game, or just like to stir the pot.

You better get several thousand spoons on order because everyone else is saying the same thing. How could you you deny the play calling was different KNiGHT RAN THE BALL specifically on zone reads which have been open all year! Btw- my grandpa (who reffed big 8 ball, and helped make the 85 championship ring said the same thing. Regardless, it doesn't take a dentist to know a tooth was/is missing...

[stoopified]

Not sure I would go so far as to issue a big FU to the coaching staff BUT I do NOT understand not running AK(All Knight )vs. UT who has proven very vulnerable to QB run and option.Likewise I fail to understand not using the option and qb run game vs. TCU,KSU and then trotting it out vs.ISU .We could have beaten the Cyclones running the offense we ran vs. UT .

[Eielson]

So yeah, you insinuated that the coaches had Trevor knight run and now your argument is fading- btw, a designed read where knight has an opening choosing his slide or ob is a hell a lot safer than getting tackled out of nowhere-(unless you are Jason white)

I never insinuated that the coaches told Knight to run every time he carried the ball. This is exactly what I said -


I actually think the TCU loss was due to TOO much running with Knight. He doesn't take hits well, and I'm pretty sure that's why he was so off in the second half.

Nice try.

[ObiKaTony]

That's your argument, what Baylor did against TCU?

I find it stunning that you think the play calling was the reason we beat the hell out of Iowa State yesterday. I'm starting to wonder if you really know the game, or just like to stir the pot.


Are you really going to tell me playcalling wasn't a big contributor!!?! With all due respect, don't ever tell me I don't know the game sir....

[ObiKaTony]

I never insinuated that the coaches told Knight to run every time he carried the ball. This is exactly what I said -



Nice try.

Wasn't a try at all. Knights legs were a contributor to why we even stayed in the game. My point was (which puts context to our conversation) is that ou had 1-2 designed run plays for knight....

Let me get this out of the way because this appears to be a communication breakdown ( imagine that via forum!) do you not concede our playing calling against Iowa state was vastly improved tailored for knights skill set?

[8timechamps]

You better get several thousand spoons on order because everyone else is saying the same thing. How could you you deny the play calling was different KNiGHT RAN THE BALL specifically on zone reads which have been open all year! Btw- my grandpa (who reffed big 8 ball, and helped make the 85 championship ring said the same thing. Regardless, it doesn't take a dentist to know a tooth was/is missing...

What's crazy is that the play calling wasn't any different in the Iowa State game. TK had more opportunities to keep the ball because that's the way Iowa State played us. I'll put together some gifs that will compare the plays called Saturday versus those called in every other game this year. Maybe that will help you understand what I'm saying.

As for getting the spoons on order, I could care less what the 'others' think, I know the game, I know what I saw. Iowa State couldn't match up against OU, they played the running back on option reads (something other teams haven't done nearly as much). The play calling was pretty close to what it has been the entire season.

[8timechamps]

Are you really going to tell me playcalling wasn't a big contributor!!?! With all due respect, don't ever tell me I don't know the game sir....

You don't know the game.

In seriousness, I have no idea what you know/don't know, but I don't think you're looking at the same things I am.

[ObiKaTony]

You don't know the game.

In seriousness, I have no idea what you know/don't know, but I don't think you're looking at the same things I am.

Apparently not, fortunately the coaching staff finally did hence the changes. Have you not seen the threads online etc...'is josh calling these plays' lol! We will agree to disagree.

[ObiKaTony]

What's crazy is that the play calling wasn't any different in the Iowa State game. TK had more opportunities to keep the ball because that's the way Iowa State played us. I'll put together some gifs that will compare the plays called Saturday versus those called in every other game this year. Maybe that will help you understand what I'm saying.

As for getting the spoons on order, I could care less what the 'others' think, I know the game, I know what I saw. Iowa State couldn't match up against OU, they played the running back on option reads (something other teams haven't done nearly as much). The play calling was pretty close to what it has been the entire season.

You don't know the game...the play calling was entirely different and to deny this is football lunacy.
Btw- you called out half this board stating they don't know the game either Nice)

[ObiKaTony]

I lived in Denver, perhaps it's the altitude. And you are the adm, I understand you have to be PC for control reason, but pointing to facts doesn't justify you telling me 'I don't know the game' set a better example, a blanket statement like that sets the bar where you don't want it to go-

[Eielson]

Wasn't a try at all. Knights legs were a contributor to why we even stayed in the game. My point was (which puts context to our conversation) is that ou had 1-2 designed run plays for knight....

My point has always been that Knight (statistically) throws better when he runs less (Ex: Alabama...and on the other end, TCU and every other freshman game). Personally, I credit this to Knight's inability to take a hit well.


Let me get this out of the way because this appears to be a communication breakdown ( imagine that via forum!) do you not concede our playing calling against Iowa state was vastly improved tailored for knights skill set?

We definitely ran Knight more, and threw in a few new things (which is common coming out of a bye). I don't think we rolled out a new playbook or anything, though. More than anything, I think we threw in a few things to distract Baylor for next week. ISU was TK's coming out party last year, so I think the coaching staff knew they would be helpless against our running attack. Maybe we wanted to try a few of these things out ahead of time, because we saw something in Baylor's defense. I don't know. I'm excited to see, though.

Personally, I wish we had run Knight less. All it takes is one awkward hit, and Knight will be throwing ducks the rest of the game. Also, I think we were planning to run Knight more against KSU, but thought better after that early injury.

[8timechamps]

You don't know the game...the play calling was entirely different and to deny this is football lunacy.
Btw- you called out half this board stating they don't know the game either Nice)

Like you said, we'll agree to disagree, but I will say if you think the play calling was "entirely different" then there's no point in my trying to discuss this with you any further. Do you understand what the read option is about? Do you know what it is, exactly, that TK reads when making a decision to give or keep the ball? That had a lot to do with how many carries he had Saturday. Otherwise, I didn't see a route, a run or a pass I hadn't already seen this year.

As for the "calling people out", again, you've lost me. This is a message board, I say what I'm thinking and give my opinion. I've been on this board for a very long time, and have never concerned myself with whether or not people like or agree with everything I say. I don't need everyone to agree with me. I think you feel like anytime someone disagree's with your opinion, it's a personal assault. You may want to get past that.

If you want to discuss this issue further, please present some kind of factual data to back up your claims. Otherwise, I'll consider this discussion (between you and I) over.

[8timechamps]

My point has always been that Knight (statistically) throws better when he runs less (Ex: Alabama...and on the other end, TCU and every other freshman game). Personally, I credit this to Knight's inability to take a hit well.



We definitely ran Knight more, and threw in a few new things (which is common coming out of a bye). I don't think we rolled out a new playbook or anything, though. More than anything, I think we threw in a few things to distract Baylor for next week. ISU was TK's coming out party last year, so I think the coaching staff knew they would be helpless against our running attack. Maybe we wanted to try a few of these things out ahead of time, because we saw something in Baylor's defense. I don't know. I'm excited to see, though.

Personally, I wish we had run Knight less. All it takes is one awkward hit, and Knight will be throwing ducks the rest of the game. Also, I think we were planning to run Knight more against KSU, but thought better after that early injury.

Right there with you.

The small amount of time we saw Cody Thomas, I didn't feel like we have a viable option should something happen to TK. A series or two, I think we'd be okay, but he's (Thomas) clearly not ready to take over. And while a lot of people think the season is "over", so why concern ourselves with TK getting injured...I say "what?". The season isn't over, and you don't just quit trying to win games because you may be knocked out of playing the playoffs. There is plenty to play for, and no reason to expose Knight to extra hits.

I'm not sure our coaches went into the game thinking "lets run TK as much as possible". They went into the game running the same read/option game we've been running and saw (pretty quickly) that ISU wasn't going to be able to contain TK on the keep. After that, it was just a big time mismatch. The best thing that happened was taking TK out of the game for the 4th quarter.

If Baylor deploys their defense the same way ISU did, then we'll see TK run the ball more. If they choose to do what most teams have done this year, he'll be handing it off a lot more. Either way we can be effective. Our offense seems to have hit their stride, now if the defense can correct their issues, we'll be in good shape.

[ObiKaTony]

Right there with you.

The small amount of time we saw Cody Thomas, I didn't feel like we have a viable option should something happen to TK. A series or two, I think we'd be okay, but he's (Thomas) clearly not ready to take over. And while a lot of people think the season is "over", so why concern ourselves with TK getting injured...I say "what?". The season isn't over, and you don't just quit trying to win games because you may be knocked out of playing the playoffs. There is plenty to play for, and no reason to expose Knight to extra hits.

I'm not sure our coaches went into the game thinking "lets run TK as much as possible". They went into the game running the same read/option game we've been running and saw (pretty quickly) that ISU wasn't going to be able to contain TK on the keep. After that, it was just a big time mismatch. The best thing that happened was taking TK out of the game for the 4th quarter.

If Baylor deploys their defense the same way ISU did, then we'll see TK run the ball more. If they choose to do what most teams have done this year, he'll be handing it off a lot more. Either way we can be effective. Our offense seems to have hit their stride, now if the defense can correct their issues, we'll be in good shape.


I think auburn fans thought they should have ran cam newton less, prob gator fans think they should of run tebow less...guys we have 2 losses dammit! Tks running sets up the pass, he is not a drop back passer, period!

This is laughable...' I want knight to run less as I'm satisfied wigb 3-21 on 3rd down conversions...' ?, why even have a dual threat if you aren't going to use him? This is insane, and look for knight to run his *** off against Baylor- it controls the clock, cuz we can't convert with him sitting in the pocket every 3rd down...

[Spray]

I tend to over-simplfy, but I still say we scored enough points in both losses to win, and I still say Mike Stoops is in the middle of overhauling the defensive scheme- 3-4 year process to get the right horses with the right experience. In short, the offense will drive you crazy at specific points in a game, but still give us the output to win, while the defense is just short of championship-caliber.

I reserve the right to be dead wrong. I also haven't yet even seen Saturday's game.

[badger]

If nobody else already said it in pages 1-4: If only we could play Iowa State every week. ISU wouldn't have those wins against Iowa and Toledo (and absolutely nobody else, including FCS darling NDSU) but we would be undefeated and could easily overcome pesky 4th and 1 non-conversions, ill-timed INTs and not expecting a perfectly executed punt fake to a wide open stone-handed receiver with terminal dropsies.

Did I miss anything? Hell, ISU's entire receiving corps had terminal dropsies.

[SoonerMarkVA]

I tend to over-simplfy, but I still say we scored enough points in both losses to win, and I still say Mike Stoops is in the middle of overhauling the defensive scheme- 3-4 year process to get the right horses with the right experience. In short, the offense will drive you crazy at specific points in a game, but still give us the output to win, while the defense is just short of championship-caliber.

I reserve the right to be dead wrong. I also haven't yet even seen Saturday's game.

I'm with you. 30 points should be enough to win every game, if you have a championship caliber defense. That's the key to a NC run, and that's where we fall short.

[SoonerorLater]

I'm with you. 30 points should be enough to win every game, if you have a championship caliber defense. That's the key to a NC run, and that's where we fall short.

In this conference 30 points every game if definitely not enough to win every game. It hasn't been for quite sometime. 30 points isn't enough to win every game in the mighty SEC and we know those guys are far superior to mere mortals. We are giving up 21.8 points per game and we have played against 3 top twenty scoring offenses. We are getting ready to play the number 1 offense this week. We have also scored three touchdowns from the defensive side of the ball, one of which had it not happened we would be looking at three losses right now instead of two. So net this defense is giving up about 19 points per game.

[aero]

In this conference 30 points every game if definitely not enough to win every game. It hasn't been for quite sometime. 30 points isn't enough to win every game in the mighty SEC and we know those guys are far superior to mere mortals. We are giving up 21.8 points per game and we have played against 3 top twenty scoring offenses. We are getting ready to play the number 1 offense this week. We have also scored three touchdowns from the defensive side of the ball, one of which had it not happened we would be looking at three losses right now instead of two. So net this defense is giving up about 19 points per game.

Not just this conference. Here is a list of the top ten teams plus OU with how many games they've scored 30 points or more vs. how many games they gave up 30 or more.

TEAM SCORED 30+ GAVE UP 30+

Miss St 7 3
FSU 7 3
Auburn 6 2
Bama 6 0
Ole Miss 5 1
Oregon 8 3
TCU 8 3
Mich ST 6 2
KSU 6 1 (OU)
Notre Dame 6 3

OU 8 3 (WVU, TCU, KSU)

There have been a whole lot of games that 30 points wasn't enough to win. Doesn't appear our D is much different than most of the top ten. I will always believe that the offense could have and should have scored at least 6 more points in the 2 losses.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Newsflash Iowa State stinks

OK, so they stink, but why has no other team blown out Iowa St.? Their worst loss was to Baylor and that was only 21 points. I hope you are not one of those people that think a 3 TD win is a blow-out given the number of teams that have come back from a 21 point deficit. Hell, we witnessed Baylor came back from 21 down in the 4th quarter against TCU this year. 21 points is nothing in college football.

[vtsooner21]

I actually think the TCU loss was due to TOO much running with Knight. He doesn't take hits well, and I'm pretty sure that's why he was so off in the second half.

KSU game was pretty clearly the kicker.

Shame on any team or any one posting that would put a loss on the kicker. To have put your team in position to lose a game by virtue of a missed point after or field goal (Yes, admittedly both happened) is making excuses for a sad performance by the offense-the ENTIRE offense.

Boomer

[aero]

Shame on any team or any one posting that would put a loss on the kicker. To have put your team in position to lose a game by virtue of a missed point after or field goal (Yes, admittedly both happened) is making excuses for a sad performance by the offense-the ENTIRE offense.

Boomer

Amen.

[Eielson]

Shame on any team or any one posting that would put a loss on the kicker. To have put your team in position to lose a game by virtue of a missed point after or field goal (Yes, admittedly both happened) is making excuses for a sad performance by the offense-the ENTIRE offense.

Boomer

We weren't asking him to make 50 yard FGs, or even 40 yard FGs. All we needed him to do was make XP's, and we beat a top 10 team in the country. That should be automatic for somebody at this level.

[FaninAma]

I think auburn fans thought they should have ran cam newton less, prob gator fans think they should of run tebow less...guys we have 2 losses dammit! Tks running sets up the pass, he is not a drop back passer, period!

This is laughable...' I want knight to run less as I'm satisfied wigb 3-21 on 3rd down conversions...' ?, why even have a dual threat if you aren't going to use him? This is insane, and look for knight to run his *** off against Baylor- it controls the clock, cuz we can't convert with him sitting in the pocket every 3rd down...

Agreed. Install a different offense and recruit a pocket passer if you are afraid to allow the QB to run. While you're at it you better recruit better along the offensive and defensive lines and do everything Alabama does that helps them win against good offensive teams. Right now OU is not there yet.

[FaninAma]

Not just this conference. Here is a list of the top ten teams plus OU with how many games they've scored 30 points or more vs. how many games they gave up 30 or more.

TEAM SCORED 30+ GAVE UP 30+

Miss St 7 3
FSU 7 3
Auburn 6 2
Bama 6 0
Ole Miss 5 1
Oregon 8 3
TCU 8 3
Mich ST 6 2
KSU 6 1 (OU)
Notre Dame 6 3

OU 8 3 (WVU, TCU, KSU)

There have been a whole lot of games that 30 points wasn't enough to win. Doesn't appear our D is much different than most of the top ten. I will always believe that the offense could have and should have scored at least 6 more points in the 2 losses.

Hell, TCU did everything they could to hand us the game in Ft. Worth but our offensive coaching staff refused to take advantage of the 2 late Frog turnovers.

[FaninAma]

I tend to over-simplfy, but I still say we scored enough points in both losses to win, and I still say Mike Stoops is in the middle of overhauling the defensive scheme- 3-4 year process to get the right horses with the right experience. In short, the offense will drive you crazy at specific points in a game, but still give us the output to win, while the defense is just short of championship-caliber.

I reserve the right to be dead wrong. I also haven't yet even seen Saturday's game.

I disagree. The defense played well enough to win the KSU game and gave the offense 2 late TOs in the TCU game that they couldn't convert into points. Also, I agree that blaming the kicker is lame when the offense can't score with 1st and goal from the 4 yard line.

[rock on sooner]

We weren't asking him to make 50 yard FGs, or even 40 yard FGs. All we needed him to do was make XP's, and we beat a top 10 team in the country. That should be automatic for somebody at this level.

I guess that Hunnicut should have blocked the K State guy, along with the kick?
Really, it takes all eleven guys doing their jobs, which includes three points of
perfection...the snap, the hold and the kick...the kid just hit 8 XP's and a 45
yard FG this past Saturday....

[Eielson]

I guess that Hunnicut should have blocked the K State guy, along with the kick?

Or he could have kicked it higher. Or made the next one. Or made the short FG earlier.

He's a grown man, and he's getting compensated for this. Make excuses for him if you want, but don't try to acquit him of failing at his job. I know he's been a great kicker for us over the course of his career, but he blew it that Saturday. You can't beat top 10 teams by 3 TDs every week and forget about special teams.

[8timechamps]

I think auburn fans thought they should have ran cam newton less, prob gator fans think they should of run tebow less...guys we have 2 losses dammit! Tks running sets up the pass, he is not a drop back passer, period!

This is laughable...' I want knight to run less as I'm satisfied wigb 3-21 on 3rd down conversions...' ?, why even have a dual threat if you aren't going to use him? This is insane, and look for knight to run his *** off against Baylor- it controls the clock, cuz we can't convert with him sitting in the pocket every 3rd down...

That is why I'm convinced you don't know what you're looking at on read options. The defense dictates when TK keeps the ball, not the other way around.

[vtsooner21]

I guess that Hunnicut should have blocked the K State guy, along with the kick?
Really, it takes all eleven guys doing their jobs, which includes three points of
perfection...the snap, the hold and the kick...the kid just hit 8 XP's and a 45
yard FG this past Saturday....

rock on sooner....You rock!

Boomer

[SoonerBBall]

That is why I'm convinced you don't know what you're looking at on read options. The defense dictates when TK keeps the ball, not the other way around.

I really respect your football knowledge 8x, but in this one I think you are dead wrong. The coaching staff as much as admitted that early in the year they would give a read option look, but have a called hand-off. Additionally, the guys over at thefootballbrainiacs.com have broken down footage to show a number of times where Trevor should have kept the ball but didn't. So either we specifically were giving a read option look but running a called hand-off, or Trevor forgot how to run the read option correctly for the first half of this season but remembered how to do it Saturday.


"Part of Trevor being in there is the illusion or threat of quarterback run."

[8timechamps]

I really respect your football knowledge 8x, but in this one I think you are dead wrong. The coaching staff as much as admitted that early in the year they would give a read option look, but have a called hand-off. Additionally, the guys over at thefootballbrainiacs.com have broken down footage to show a number of times where Trevor should have kept the ball but didn't. So either we specifically were giving a read option look but running a called hand-off, or Trevor forgot how to run the read option correctly for the first half of this season but remembered how to do it Saturday.

I think you're missing the point I was making with the other poster.

The coaches were definitely calling handoffs out of the read option earlier this year. The play looked like a read option, but TK was never going to keep the ball. No disagreement there at all.

My discussion (in this thread) was about the Iowa State game specifically. My point is that when we ran the read option (not the fake, or the handoff version), it was all about TK reading the ISU defense. Iowa State played the RB almost the entire game (on the read), so TK had a lot of opportunities to keep the ball. The bottom line is that, while we looked really good, Iowa State played us in a way that made the read/option extremely effective. I don't think we're going to see Baylor do the same thing.

So, you and I aren't in disagreement at all. At least I don't think so.

[ObiKaTony]

That is why I'm convinced you don't know what you're looking at on read options. The defense dictates when TK keeps the ball, not the other way around.


This is why I'm convinced you are a 'high road' fan. I've see. Your posts before regarding mike stoops and Venebles, it was laughable. I was at the Texas game and knight had lanes 20 yards of free space to run to. Fans were screaming 'let him ruuuuuuuuuuuuuun!' He was told to take that ball and 'option' to the rb regardless, hence why I've been saying all year with the exception of Iowa state our offense hasn't lived to it's potential and Landry jones could run this damn thing (which kinda takes the whole dual qb null and void)

You know jack about football, and I take your opinion of my knowledge of football as a compliment- I tried to end this earlier, but you keep bringing this up. 'Take the high road'

[SoonerBBall]

I think you're missing the point I was making with the other poster.

The coaches were definitely calling handoffs out of the read option earlier this year. The play looked like a read option, but TK was never going to keep the ball. No disagreement there at all.

My discussion (in this thread) was about the Iowa State game specifically. My point is that when we ran the read option (not the fake, or the handoff version), it was all about TK reading the ISU defense. Iowa State played the RB almost the entire game (on the read), so TK had a lot of opportunities to keep the ball. The bottom line is that, while we looked really good, Iowa State played us in a way that made the read/option extremely effective. I don't think we're going to see Baylor do the same thing.

So, you and I aren't in disagreement at all. At least I don't think so.

Gotcha. Thought you were talking about the previous games as well, not just ISU specifically.

[bmjlr]

This is why I'm convinced you are a 'high road' fan. I've see. Your posts before regarding mike stoops and Venebles, it was laughable. I was at the Texas game and knight had lanes 20 yards of free space to run to. Fans were screaming 'let him ruuuuuuuuuuuuuun!' He was told to take that ball and 'option' to the rb regardless, hence why I've been saying all year with the exception of Iowa state our offense hasn't lived to it's potential and Landry jones could run this damn thing (which kinda takes the whole dual qb null and void)

You know jack about football, and I take your opinion of my knowledge of football as a compliment- I tried to end this earlier, but you keep bringing this up. 'Take the high road'

Someone needs a hug.

[Eielson]

*group hug*

[birddog]

That's good medicine.

[achiro]

I think you're missing the point I was making with the other poster.

The coaches were definitely calling handoffs out of the read option earlier this year. The play looked like a read option, but TK was never going to keep the ball. No disagreement there at all.

My discussion (in this thread) was about the Iowa State game specifically. My point is that when we ran the read option (not the fake, or the handoff version), it was all about TK reading the ISU defense. Iowa State played the RB almost the entire game (on the read), so TK had a lot of opportunities to keep the ball. The bottom line is that, while we looked really good, Iowa State played us in a way that made the read/option extremely effective. I don't think we're going to see Baylor do the same thing.

So, you and I aren't in disagreement at all. At least I don't think so.
But that's counter to the entire point of this thread. My point was, and still is, that the coaching cost the KSU game and probably the TCU game as well. Texas and WVU were both closer than they should have been. Then after two losses and against a crappy ISU team they decide to let Knight keep in the zone reads. It was clear that he wasn't going to in the earlier games, making it much easier to defend against OUr offense.
As far as the "defense should make more stops" argument. I think y'all are just going to have to come to the realization that we aren't in Kansas anymore. Teams are going to score. The best defense is the offense keeping and scoring. 3 and outs over and over from your offense=Lots of points scored against your above average D.

[Eielson]

But that's counter to the entire point of this thread. My point was, and still is, that the coaching cost the KSU game and probably the TCU game as well. Texas and WVU were both closer than they should have been.

I thought the WVU game might have been our finest performance. Grabbing a W in Morgantown isn't easy, and certainly not by the margin we did it by.

[OUmillenium]

I disagree. The defense played well enough to win the KSU game and gave the offense 2 late TOs in the TCU game that they couldn't convert into points. Also, I agree that blaming the kicker is lame when the offense can't score with 1st and goal from the 4 yard line.

very true on this^

[OUmillenium]

This is why I'm convinced you are a 'high road' fan. I've see. Your posts before regarding mike stoops and Venebles, it was laughable. I was at the Texas game and knight had lanes 20 yards of free space to run to. Fans were screaming 'let him ruuuuuuuuuuuuuun!' He was told to take that ball and 'option' to the rb regardless, hence why I've been saying all year with the exception of Iowa state our offense hasn't lived to it's potential and Landry jones could run this damn thing (which kinda takes the whole dual qb null and void)

You know jack about football, and I take your opinion of my knowledge of football as a compliment- I tried to end this earlier, but you keep bringing this up. 'Take the high road'

I'm with Obi in this thread. The criticism is not on the ISU game...it's why didn't we open up and allow qb keepers on the zone read in earlier games?!?!?!? The ISU game (yes they suck) just proves that our diversity and success are expanded when you can exploit what the defense gives you - regardless of the opponent. If UTerus gave us massive run lanes but the qb wasn't allowed to exploit that, then all of the sudden a blowout becomes a nailbiter. Same said in the TCU game - a tight win becomes a loss.

This is all very elementary sports psychology/methodology. The OP "fu" is because the coaching staff should be programming our players for success and not handcuffing them. Honestly, I am surprised there is any debate about this.

[Tear Down This Wall]

So, on the days Knight accidentally has a good game, it's because the coaching staff lets him execute certain plays. But, the majority of the games Knight plays, they intentionally give him a failing game plan, for some unknown reason.

That makes sense.

[8timechamps]

But that's counter to the entire point of this thread. My point was, and still is, that the coaching cost the KSU game and probably the TCU game as well. Texas and WVU were both closer than they should have been. Then after two losses and against a crappy ISU team they decide to let Knight keep in the zone reads. It was clear that he wasn't going to in the earlier games, making it much easier to defend against OUr offense.
As far as the "defense should make more stops" argument. I think y'all are just going to have to come to the realization that we aren't in Kansas anymore. Teams are going to score. The best defense is the offense keeping and scoring. 3 and outs over and over from your offense=Lots of points scored against your above average D.

My point is (and has been) that the play calling wasn't that much different. What we saw from TK last week had more to do with how ISU defended us than some drastic change to the game plan. If TCU and/or KSU has played us that way, we probably would have seen a similar performance from Knight.

As for who's to blame in those two games, there's plenty of it to go around (coaches included). So, I can't put it entirely on the defense, but the offense production was good enough to win both games (not to say it couldn't be better though).

The problem (for all of us) is that we don't know what percentage of the time Knight was told to hand the ball off earlier this season. Since we none have that information, we're all just speculating. My speculation is based on what I've seen from opposing defenses this year, and how it related to success in the QB run game.

[8timechamps]

I'm with Obi in this thread. The criticism is not on the ISU game...it's why didn't we open up and allow qb keepers on the zone read in earlier games?!?!?!? The ISU game (yes they suck) just proves that our diversity and success are expanded when you can exploit what the defense gives you - regardless of the opponent. If UTerus gave us massive run lanes but the qb wasn't allowed to exploit that, then all of the sudden a blowout becomes a nailbiter. Same said in the TCU game - a tight win becomes a loss.

This is all very elementary sports psychology/methodology. The OP "fu" is because the coaching staff should be programming our players for success and not handcuffing them. Honestly, I am surprised there is any debate about this.

How do you (or anyone) know when we did/didn't open the read? I know the coaches mentioned that some of the zone read looks were just called hand-offs, but none of us have a clue how many and when. To be upset with the coaches based on an uninformed observation seems a little nuts to me.

[Curly Bill]

How do you (or anyone) know when we did/didn't open the read? I know the coaches mentioned that some of the zone read looks were just called hand-offs, but none of us have a clue how many and when. To be upset with the coaches based on an uninformed observation seems a little nuts to me.

Can we be upset with them because once again an OU football team has underperformed?

[Tear Down This Wall]

Can we be upset with them because once again an OU football team has underperformed?

Or, has it? We are assuming the hype was legitimate. After all of these years, we should know better.

14 seasons between last two national titles, 1986 - 1999
14 seasons since last national title, 2001 - present

Longest title drought since we won our first in 1950:
17 seasons, 1957 - 1973

2015 would mark the second longest national title drought we've had since we won our first.

[8timechamps]

Can we be upset with them because once again an OU football team has underperformed?

Sure, but nobody promised us a title this year. Being upset with the coaches is fine...being upset based on an uninformed perception, not so much. But, that's just how I feel and certainly not the 'rule'.

[aero]

I'm with Obi in this thread. The criticism is not on the ISU game...it's why didn't we open up and allow qb keepers on the zone read in earlier games?!?!?!? The ISU game (yes they suck) just proves that our diversity and success are expanded when you can exploit what the defense gives you - regardless of the opponent. If UTerus gave us massive run lanes but the qb wasn't allowed to exploit that, then all of the sudden a blowout becomes a nailbiter. Same said in the TCU game - a tight win becomes a loss.

This is all very elementary sports psychology/methodology. The OP "fu" is because the coaching staff should be programming our players for success and not handcuffing them. Honestly, I am surprised there is any debate about this.

Exactly. I put the losses on the coaches. If your qb isn't an ambi-turner and can't turn left, don't have him try to run plays that he has to turn left. Pretty simple.

[SoonerMachine]

Exactly. I put the losses on the coaches. If your qb isn't an ambi-turner and can't turn left, don't have him try to run plays that he has to turn left. Pretty simple.

I agree with you and Obi...

[Eielson]

Knight is our leading rusher (in carries) today. Did we win??

[Mookie91]

Knight is our leading rusher (in carries) today. Did we win??

Exactly, if Trevor Knight running the ball is a solution the person hasn't asked the right question.

[soonercastor]

I’ll not shy away from the expectations here at Oklahoma. In fact, I’ll embrace ’em. There should be great expectations here.


Someone once said that

[8timechamps]

Knight is our leading rusher (in carries) today. Did we win??

Yeah...how'd that work out? :D

[achiro]

Yeah...how'd that work out? :D

LOL, you know very well that him running only works if other aspects work as well. Nothing worked today.

[8timechamps]

LOL, you know very well that him running only works if other aspects work as well. Nothing worked today.

I'm not knocking you, really.

My point throughout the entire thread was that last week's performance had more to do with ISU than any major change to the offense. I know we kept TK in the stable a little more early in the year, but last week made it appear as though they just decided to let him go wild. Which wasn't really what happened.

[SoonerLB]

Appears to me that the only thing about TK that goes wild are his throws, just sayin' . . . ;)

[Mookie91]

I'm not knocking you, really.

My point throughout the entire thread was that last week's performance had more to do with ISU than any major change to the offense. I know we kept TK in the stable a little more early in the year, but last week made it appear as though they just decided to let him go wild. Which wasn't really what happened.

Knight could run away from ISU not Baylor

[FaninAma]

Did OU run any play action passes? Also, it is apparent Josh has never heard of the concept of misdirection and as a result opposing defenses just line up and come after OU.

One of the offensive coordinator's jobs is to put some doubt in the opposing defenses mind to slow them down. Josh has never done that and I find it shocking that a guy with such an extensive exposure to the game(his dad was a coach) is so limited in what he sees on the field.

The Baylor OC did an excellent job of putting doubt in our players and coaches minds.