I can't believe it!

[azheat4u]

The world didn't end and the sun did did come up this morning.

I thought for sure after reading some of the threads yesterday that Armageddon would happen.
Last week everyone was complaining about TK and yes he had that very bad int but the team over came that and had a chance for victory. Look at his stats this week they were very good. If we give him plays that he can make the numbers will be there. We do have a few play makers once they get the ball in their hands.

Many of you are calling for Bob's head, you guys are crazy. Is there a better HC out there that would come to OU? We have stability and that's what is needed at the top. Do we need better position coaches, possibly. Could the play calling be better, of course it could but to say Bob needs to go would be the worse thing that could happen at this point. Look at the top programs and see how many coaches they go through before finding the next best one. It's hard to replace a legend and the next coach becomes a legend too. Look at the years between Barry and Bob, is that what we want?

Does it suck to lose? Sure it does, but it's just a game. Many of you never played beyond high school or have ever coached beyond youth leagues and have all the answers, it's hard to play or coach at the D1 level let alone what level everyone on this board wants.

I'm not saying everything is rosey but it could be worse than it is. Last year we got the bounces, ie fumble recoveries going our way. Look at just the past two weeks, there were 4 opportunities where we could have had 4 recoveries but the ball bounced the other way. Is that coaching or bad plays by our team? No, just the way it goes sometimes. We could easily be undefeated but at the same time we could be looking at a3-4 game losing streak.

The Sugar Bowl was a blessing in disguise. After beating Bama everyone just assumed we were back at the top and could compete for a NC but we still have to play the games and to think you could go undefeated in the Big12 is asking too much. If we win outright will the season be a success? Not in the eyes of many, but if the growth of the young players is there, than yes.

[GDC]

I think maybe Stoops needs to get over his SEC obsession and focus more on what's going on within his program. How about they recruit some quality receivers instead of relying on transfers and figure out the whole timeout issue. The bluster loses its luster when your team underperforms against quality competition. I'm very glad to see quality teams emerging in the bigXII but I would prefer ou beat them to back up the talk.

[olevetonahill]

Dont want ANYONE fired But do want this crap Fixed. Not sure whats wrong But I do know this the Blame really rests on the shoulders of the Man at the TOP.
Fix it Bob

[aero]

Dont want ANYONE fired But do want this crap Fixed. Not sure whats wrong But I do know this the Blame really rests on the shoulders of the Man at the TOP.
Fix it Bob

I'm with ya. Don't want anyone fired unless that's the only way to fix the problems. And anyone thinks there aren't problems just ain't looking.

[rock on sooner]

Dont want ANYONE fired But do want this crap Fixed. Not sure whats wrong But I do know this the Blame really rests on the shoulders of the Man at the TOP.
Fix it Bob

Yup, I agree also. Heh, maybe Bob orta do a conference call with the
"experts" on this board...they could tell him how to fix it, whatever "it"
is.

[Speck]

I also find it interesting that a few years ago people were hoping and dreaming for Mike to come back to coach defense. Now that he is here, everyone wants him fired.

[aero]

I've missed the posts calling for MS to be fired. The d still needs work but I think its improved since he's been here and I would expect it to continue to get better. I have no delusion the offense will get better. And yes, I know they did better yesterday but lets not rehash the pick 6 or the goal line plays. Those were huge. The reverse pass? whatever. The D wasn't the problem. 24 points against a Bill Snyder offense. I'll take that this year or next.

[Sooner91ATL]

There's nothing to worry about. All we gotta do is win the south and then we'll see those kitties again at Arrowhead first week in December. Win that, and we are Phoenix-bound my friends! Haven't been to my favorite Gap in Glendale in a looong time. Looking forward to it.

[DCsooner22]

All we gotta do is win the south and then we'll see those kitties again at Arrowhead first week in December.

Huh?

Do I need to turn up my sarcasm meter...?

[aero]

There's nothing to worry about. All we gotta do is win the south and then we'll see those kitties again at Arrowhead first week in December. Win that, and we are Phoenix-bound my friends! Haven't been to my favorite Gap in Glendale in a looong time. Looking forward to it.

I wish we could go back to 2003......

[Sooner Schemer]

The world didn't end and the sun did did come up this morning.

I thought for sure after reading some of the threads yesterday that Armageddon would happen.Obama isn't done yet.

[soonercastor]

Lol what a stupid thread.

There weren't even that many negative posts, at least compared to years past. People are immune to it now.

[TrophyCollector]

Lol what a stupid thread.

There weren't even that many negative posts, at least compared to years past. People are immune to it now.

Content with mediocrity. "We're Texas". Oh wait, Texas decided not winning conference championships was no longer acceptable. "We're Nebraska".

[Therealsouthsider]

....I don't want anyone fired either, a reassignment or two would be okay though.

....It would be refreshing, however, if coach Stoops would stop being snide/arrogant/condescending and admit that the problems are just as much coaching as player inadequacies. In my opinion, Josh is a position coach and not a coordinator as evidenced by the fact that the offense under his tenure has no identity and little philosophy. Anyone can throw shat against the wall to see if it will stick, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. What it appears is that we currently have a Frankenstein's monster with bits and pieces of different styles and nuts and bolts from previous coaches Josh has played/worked for. The only problem is that our monster isn't scary. As far as Mike Stoops goes, the defense is merely lacking quality depth and experience...at least it has an identity.

.....Anyway, growing up with OU football I had to learn to accept the team getting beaten on occasion but I will never accept losing because that is not part of Oklahomas' DNA....they both may be 'L's but the difference meant everything


ss

[Snrinhouston]

Dont want ANYONE fired But do want this crap Fixed. Not sure whats wrong But I do know this the Blame really rests on the shoulders of the Man at the TOP.
Fix it Bob

I'd like to know if Boren and Castiglione are telling him the same? Or are they content with 10-2, 9-3, or 8-4 as long as attendance doesn't drop?

[Sooner91ATL]

It would take a major scandal or resignation to get a new coach. If OU fires a coach with Stoops' record, they would never get any coach to come here. Almost assured that nobody would match Stoops' overall W record. Maybe win as many or more championships, but not the year in year out conference success. the guy would live looking over his shoulder with a two-loss season. Some would want to come due the name recognition of course, but that goes under the Schnellenberger files.

[Snrinhouston]

It would take a major scandal or resignation to get a new coach. If OU fires a coach with Stoops' record, they would never get any coach to come here. Almost assured that nobody would match Stoops' overall W record. Maybe win as many or more championships, but not the year in year out conference success. the guy would live looking over his shoulder with a two-loss season. Some would want to come due the name recognition of course, but that goes under the Schnellenberger files.

You must be kidding? The last 14 National Championships have been won by a head coach not named Stoops.

This fawning adoration of Stoops is Jonestown-esque. Reminds me of the old SNL skit of the three Bears fans worshipping Ditka.

[okiewaker]

You must be kidding? The last 14 National Championships have been won by a head coach not named Stoops.

This fawning adoration of Stoops is Jonestown-esque. Reminds me of the old SNL skit of the three Bears fans worshipping Ditka.

Okay let's fire the bum. Who are we going after?

[Snrinhouston]

Okay let's fire the bum. Who are we going after?

Never said Stoops is a bum. But I do believe that he'll never get OU into the playoff. If you are happy with 10-2, 9-3, and occasionally 8-4, then Stoops is your guy.

Who would I want to replace him? I want the guy who was like Stoops 15 years ago. Young, smart, not financially set for life and his kids lives, and scared (like Bob admits he was).

[bluedogok]

You must be kidding? The last 14 National Championships have been won by a head coach not named Stoops.

This fawning adoration of Stoops is Jonestown-esque. Reminds me of the old SNL skit of the three Bears fans worshipping Ditka.
There are also about 120 or more head coaches in D-IA that haven't won a national championship in that time period as well and haven't been anywhere close. All you have to do is look at Nebraska for how well most knee jerk reactions turn out. It seems some Oklahoma fans are infected with a variation of the "We're Texas" disease.

[Sooner Schemer]

It would take a major scandal or resignation to get a new coach. If OU fires a coach with Stoops' record, they would never get any coach to come here. Almost assured that nobody would match Stoops' overall W record. Maybe win as many or more championships, but not the year in year out conference success. the guy would live looking over his shoulder with a two-loss season. Some would want to come due the name recognition of course, but that goes under the Schnellenberger files.I don't expect anything to change unless the Board of Regents get serious with Stoops the way they did with Switzer after 3 down years: http://newsok.com/switzer-welcomes-contract-extension/article/2091449/?page=2

In each of Switzer's first three years as head coach, 1973 through 1976, he worked under a four-year agreement. But after winning two national championships and compiling a 32-1-1 record over those first three seasons, he was given five-year pacts from 1976 through 1983.

Then, last February, after OU had finished 23-12-1 from 1981 through 1983, the regents kept Switzer's contract at four years.

[okiewaker]

Never said Stoops is a bum. But I do believe that he'll never get OU into the playoff. If you are happy with 10-2, 9-3, and occasionally 8-4, then Stoops is your guy.

Who would I want to replace him? I want the guy who was like Stoops 15 years ago. Young, smart, not financially set for life and his kids lives, and scared (like Bob admits he was).

10-2? Well he!l, we should of fired his butt in 2001 and skipped all the heartache for the last 13 years.

[cherokeebrewer]

I remember in 2000 when the fans were praising Bob Stoops so much and he said..."I'm smart enough to know, some of the fans thanking me now will be the first ones who want to run me out of town when things are not going so well"

He does understand the expectations that are OU football and that's the way it should be...

[Snrinhouston]

There are also about 120 or more head coaches in D-IA that haven't won a national championship in that time period as well and haven't been anywhere close. All you have to do is look at Nebraska for how well most knee jerk reactions turn out. It seems some Oklahoma fans are infected with a variation of the "We're Texas" disease.

Yep. And those 120 coaches have never consistently been among the top 4 paid coaches in the country. This year Stoops is the second highest paid coach in the country...and to justify that salary?????? Well his team is out of contention and it's not even November.

How much of the 5.2 million do you think Stoops will give back to Boren this year, because he didn't get results commensurate to being the second highest paid coach? I'm guessing zero.

Stoops needs to get premium results that justify his premium pay. 6 straight years of NOT even sniffing the championship is NOT premium. If you think otherwise, I'm not sure what color the sky is in your world.

[Snrinhouston]

10-2? Well he!l, we should of fired his butt in 2001 and skipped all the heartache for the last 13 years.

The sarcasm aside. You leave out a very important distinction. That 10-2 team was a VERY good team, that fell short because of pedestrian qb play. Hybl was not Heupel or Jason White. But the overall product was still so good, that the fan could credibly believe Stoops could bridge the small gap and get to another championship game. Which he did.

What have you seen in the past 6 Stoops teams that make you think, "wow, these are really good teams...that are just a hair off?"

[BoulderSooner79]

I'd like to know if Boren and Castiglione are telling him the same? Or are they content with 10-2, 9-3, or 8-4 as long as attendance doesn't drop?

I'm sure that's true and not an unreasonable stance. As long as the revenue is flowing, they'll look at the big picture. But you left out big donors, which is an important part of the equation.

[BoulderSooner79]

I just peeked at the ESPN rankings and we are the highest ranked 2-loss team in all 3 poles. I don't understand all the b*tching going on here.


:highly_amused::nevreness::concern:

[bluedogok]

I still don't get what coaches make matters at all and how that is argument for anything. Just smacks of jealousy over what someone makes to me.

[okiewaker]

I still don't get what coaches make matters at all and how that is argument for anything. Just smacks of jealousy over what someone makes to me.

Yep,,it's called class envy.

[Sooner Schemer]

I still don't get what coaches make matters at all and how that is argument for anything. Just smacks of jealousy over what someone makes to me.
Every year, the salary goes up and ticket prices go up. Not everybody appreciates having to pay more, especially when the product isn't getting any better.

[BoulderSooner79]

Every year, the salary goes up and ticket prices go up. Not everybody appreciates having to pay more, especially when the product isn't getting any better.

That's just supply and demand at work. Same product + more fans = higher prices. The market doesn't care if people appreciate it until it gets to a point the number of fans goes down.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Stoops is worth every penny. Anyone who's melting down about his salary would be doing the same if we had Briles (feel free to visit the Baylor boards this very weekend for their "trademark Briles loss" commentary) or Saban (see loss to Ole Miss and early season struggles to put teams away). Every program has its chicken littles and they are always disproportionately loud after any loss or even a close game. I'm sure even Bud Wilkinson dealt with criticism after winning us 47 straight. Otherwise, he never would have had cause to make a comment I find equally relevant here: "The only ones who don't lose don't play."

[olevetonahill]

Kill em ALL let God sort em out!
There be some Morans around here. Do I think Bob has a bit of Complacency? Hell yea Do I think Bob needs to Know we the Fans are Unhappy? Hell yes. Do I think Bob Needs Fired? Are Yall out yer ****in minds?????

[birddog]

Not near as many morans around here compared to 2004-'07. Wonder what it takes to bring in a couple hundy neg posters to have fun with?

[Snrinhouston]

Yep,,it's called class envy.

Uh no. It's called accountability.

[Snrinhouston]

I just peeked at the ESPN rankings and we are the highest ranked 2-loss team in all 3 poles. I don't understand all the b*tching going on here.


:highly_amused::nevreness::concern:

Great! It's always nice to be the "cleanest" shirt in the dirty laundry pile.

[Snrinhouston]

Stoops is worth every penny. Anyone who's melting down about his salary would be doing the same if we had Briles (feel free to visit the Baylor boards this very weekend for their "trademark Briles loss" commentary) or Saban (see loss to Ole Miss and early season struggles to put teams away). Every program has its chicken littles and they are always disproportionately loud after any loss or even a close game. I'm sure even Bud Wilkinson dealt with criticism after winning us 47 straight. Otherwise, he never would have had cause to make a comment I find equally relevant here: "The only ones who don't lose don't play."

Ok. I see the claim. What's the evidence to support it based on team performance over the past six years?

[olevetonahill]

Every year, the salary goes up and ticket prices go up. Not everybody appreciates having to pay more, especially when the product isn't getting any better.

Then stay home and watch on TeeVee.
This **** is Nutts!

[bluedogok]

Every year, the salary goes up and ticket prices go up. Not everybody appreciates having to pay more, especially when the product isn't getting any better.
The thing is football isn't a widget and only one team a season can win it all. Even as much as Saban is paid and their recruits are the "best of the best" they don't win it every year.

It's still a game played part time by 18-23 year olds in which the coaches have limited time to enact game plans, so it does come down to player execution a lot of times but then maybe that falls back on the staff as well for implementing complexity that they don't have time to grasp given the NCAA limitations. Do I think there are issues with some of the play calling that should be corrected? Yes but I also don't think it is bad enough to can the staff.

[BoulderSooner79]

Great! It's always nice to be the "cleanest" shirt in the dirty laundry pile.

Need to check that ol sarcasm meter.

[Snrinhouston]

The thing is football isn't a widget and only one team a season can win it all. Even as much as Saban is paid and their recruits are the "best of the best" they don't win it every year.

It's still a game played part time by 18-23 year olds in which the coaches have limited time to enact game plans, so it does come down to player execution a lot of times but then maybe that falls back on the staff as well for implementing complexity that they don't have time to grasp given the NCAA limitations. Do I think there are issues with some of the play calling that should be corrected? Yes but I also don't think it is bad enough to can the staff.

I can't stand Saban. And I'm sure I'm not alone. But who of the haters cannot grudgingly admit that he truly is worth every cent of the 7 million/year he's paid?

He's got 4 rings...and is still in the hunt this year. Who among us thinks that he wouldn't get more out of this OU team than Stoops has?

[soonergirlNeugene]

Ok. I see the claim. What's the evidence to support it based on team performance over the past six years?

I love how one or two guys looks up Stoops' salary and suddenly everyone else is held to a high evidentiary standard. Enough has been posted on this matter in this thread and others to provide plenty of support for Stoops job performance. If you are unhappy with Stoops as our head coach, you certainly have a right to your opinion. But the mere fact that your opinion stands in stark disagreement to the majority of the posters here does not entitle you to an itemized accounting of every reason we have to support Stoops. Nobody here owes you any explanation at all, even though plenty has been given in this thread and others you can read without even having to proceed beyond page 1 of this forum.

I probably shouldn't even go this far, but the language of your comment suggests you have at least a basic understanding of argumentation theory. Surely you understand that those who seek to propose a change shoulder the burden to establish a clear plan for said change as well as the underlying needs for and advantages of said change. So if you'd like to continue, then we'd all like to see exactly who you think could do better along with evidence for why and how that person could do a better job than Stoops.

[ObiKaTony]

Yup, I agree also. Heh, maybe Bob orta do a conference call with the
"experts" on this board...they could tell him how to fix it, whatever "it"
is.

I hate this line. Like we can't comment when something is blatantly wrong? Perhaps I can't comment a wrong tooth was pulled because I'm not a dentist. Please, take your sanctimony someplace else, it's lame, and it doesn't make you a 'better' person...

[Snrinhouston]

I love how one or two guys looks up Stoops' salary and suddenly everyone else is held to a high evidentiary standard. Enough has been posted on this matter in this thread and others to provide plenty of support for Stoops job performance. If you are unhappy with Stoops as our head coach, you certainly have a right to your opinion. But the mere fact that your opinion stands in stark disagreement to the majority of the posters here does not entitle you to an itemized accounting of every reason we have to support Stoops. Nobody here owes you any explanation at all, even though plenty has been given in this thread and others you can read without even having to proceed beyond page 1 of this forum.

I probably shouldn't even go this far, but the language of your comment suggests you have at least a basic understanding of argumentation theory. Surely you understand that those who seek to propose a change shoulder the burden to establish a clear plan for said change as well as the underlying needs for and advantages of said change. So if you'd like to continue, then we'd all like to see exactly who you think could do better along with evidence for why and how that person could do a better job than Stoops.

You spent a lot of words to say "Gee. I haven't offered any relevant evidence". The relevant time period is the last 5 years. The 5 years since his last NC game. What has Stoops accomplished in the last 5 years to merit 5 star pay? Does anyone disagree with the premise that he gets 5 star pay?

2009-unranked in final AP poll (but let's be generous and call it 25)
2010-6th ranking in final AP poll
2011-16th ranking in final AP poll
2012-15 ranking in final AP poll
2013-6th ranking in final AP poll

So in the past five years, OU's average final AP rank has been about 13. That's pretty good. Definitely 3 star, maybe even 4 star. But 5 star? HELL NO!!!!!

As for who's done better? Chris Peterson for one. Do the same math for his Boise State teams over the same time period. Bet you won't like the answer you get.

Do the same for that buffoon Les Miles. Bet you won't like that answer either.

And these aren't the only two examples!

[BoulderSooner79]

I can't stand Saban. And I'm sure I'm not alone. But who of the haters cannot grudgingly admit that he truly is worth every cent of the 7 million/year he's paid?

He's got 4 rings...and is still in the hunt this year. Who among us thinks that he wouldn't get more out of this OU team than Stoops has?

Hard to know. They have had their own issues this year being behind in the turnover column for the first time under Saban. Also, he would have to coach with less of a talent advantage and face more talented spread teams which he clearly doesn't like.

You might say Saban would recruit better and not face any talent issues, but that is just speculation. Maybe some coach could bring top 5 recruiting classes to Norman, but I have my doubts. I do think we could improve in that area with better recruiting assistances, but I don't think we'd catch up to the southeastern region of the country.

[Snrinhouston]

Hard to know. They have had their own issues this year being behind in the turnover column for the first time under Saban. Also, he would have to coach with less of a talent advantage and face more talented spread teams which he clearly doesn't like.

You might say Saban would recruit better and not face any talent issues, but that is just speculation. Maybe some coach could bring top 5 recruiting classes to Norman, but I have my doubts. I do think we could improve in that area with better recruiting assistances, but I don't think we'd catch up to the southeastern region of the country.

AGREE 100%

[8timechamps]

Hard to know. They have had their own issues this year being behind in the turnover column for the first time under Saban. Also, he would have to coach with less of a talent advantage and face more talented spread teams which he clearly doesn't like.

You might say Saban would recruit better and not face any talent issues, but that is just speculation. Maybe some coach could bring top 5 recruiting classes to Norman, but I have my doubts. I do think we could improve in that area with better recruiting assistances, but I don't think we'd catch up to the southeastern region of the country.

People don't want to hear that...this is OKLAHOMA! We should get top 5 classes every year!!!111!!

Of course there's the minor issue of not being in a big talent laden state, which every other perennial power has that benefit.

Anyway, you know I'm being sarcastic, but back to being serious:

I do believe bringing in Montgomery, Bedenbaugh and Boulware will address the recruiting issues that were starting to show. Again, not something people want to hear, but it doesn't happen overnight.

[aurorasooner]

Not really into the salary figures, but I do believe that all of them get paid too much, if you throw in all the free perks they get as well as their salary.
However I'd also want big money if I had to ""nursemaid some of these self proclaimed entitled football/basketball college athletes. For every one Sam Bradford cerebral type, there's 10 or 15 (or more) that shouldn't and wouldn't be at any major institution of higher learning w/o a football scholly.

The biggest difference in Stoops and Saban, imo is that Saban is a strict CEO type and will fire his assistant coach's/coordinators azz if they don't produce quality recruits and his team area doesn't show improvement from week to week. Stoops is too loyal to a fault and lets them hang on the gravy train too long even if they're dead weight.

Also Bob has done a damn good job bringing in talent imo, and was damn good at coaching them up in his first 10 years, not so sure about the last 5 years or so, though.
The whole Sooner program has been put behind the recruiting 8 ball, so to speak, with this disaster of conference realignment. We're okay now as far as funding but for the long term, we're probably not in very good shape, not only in recruiting, but with program hype and probably with funding as well.
Which means the staff is going to have to turn over the rocks more to find the "Auston English (sp-?)" type athletes, outfight the Baylors, TCUs, Techs, and OSUs for them, and especially they have to excel in coaching them up to a quality level. For that we're going to have to pay a premium, and the administration is going to have to be vigilant that the FB staff is doing just that, or see that they're quickly sent packing.

[Snrinhouston]

People don't want to hear that...this is OKLAHOMA! We should get top 5 classes every year!!!111!!

Of course there's the minor issue of not being in a big talent laden state, which every other perennial power has that benefit.

Anyway, you know I'm being sarcastic, but back to being serious:

I do believe bringing in Montgomery, Bedenbaugh and Boulware will address the recruiting issues that were starting to show. Again, not something people want to hear, but it doesn't happen overnight.

I think you are right, and hope you are right.

[Snrinhouston]

Not really into the salary figures, but I do believe that all of them get paid too much, if you throw in all the free perks they get as well as their salary.
However I'd also want big money if I had to ""nursemaid some of these self proclaimed entitled football/basketball college athletes. For every one Sam Bradford cerebral type, there's 10 or 15 (or more) that shouldn't and wouldn't be at any major institution of higher learning w/o a football scholly.

The biggest difference in Stoops and Saban, imo is that Saban is a strict CEO type and will fire his assistant coach's/coordinators azz if they don't produce quality recruits and his team area doesn't show improvement from week to week. Stoops is too loyal to a fault and lets them hang on the gravy train too long even if they're dead weight.

Amen. Nuf said!

[8timechamps]

I think you are right, and hope you are right.

We'll know in a year or two, but both Bedenbaugh and Montgomery are well respected for their recruiting prowess. Both seem to have infused some energy into their respective positions (with players they didn't bring in), and both seem to be doing a pretty damn good job on the recruiting trail. Bedenbaugh's work may not show up immediately, but he's doing well with the recruiting. We're already seeing a glimpse of Montgomery's work in Matthew Romar and Charles Walker.

[BoulderSooner79]

Not really into the salary figures, but I do believe that all of them get paid too much, if you throw in all the free perks they get as well as their salary.


What coaches get paid is absurd, but the market doesn't care about absurd. I'll say it again, it's the head coach at OU that gets $5m, and Stoops happens to occupy that office. Now you can say we should replace him as so many do after a loss, but the next head coach will also make $5M or soon will after a couple of years. It's part of the price of keeping the program a destination school so we get to pick and choose when the time comes for the next guy. And there is no guarantee the next guy will do better. Charlie Strong is making $5M with little expectation of wins right now. If he turns things around, he'll surpass what Mack was making even if he never achieves as much as Mack did.

[olevetonahill]

I can't stand Saban. And I'm sure I'm not alone. But who of the haters cannot grudgingly admit that he truly is worth every cent of the 7 million/year he's paid?


He's got 4 rings...and is still in the hunt this year. Who among us thinks that he wouldn't get more out of this OU team than Stoops has?

ME plus I think yer a Moran!

[olevetonahill]

I love how one or two guys looks up Stoops' salary and suddenly everyone else is held to a high evidentiary standard. Enough has been posted on this matter in this thread and others to provide plenty of support for Stoops job performance. If you are unhappy with Stoops as our head coach, you certainly have a right to your opinion. But the mere fact that your opinion stands in stark disagreement to the majority of the posters here does not entitle you to an itemized accounting of every reason we have to support Stoops. Nobody here owes you any explanation at all, even though plenty has been given in this thread and others you can read without even having to proceed beyond page 1 of this forum.

I probably shouldn't even go this far, but the language of your comment suggests you have at least a basic understanding of argumentation theory. Surely you understand that those who seek to propose a change shoulder the burden to establish a clear plan for said change as well as the underlying needs for and advantages of said change. So if you'd like to continue, then we'd all like to see exactly who you think could do better along with evidence for why and how that person could do a better job than Stoops.

Preach it Baby!

[Snrinhouston]

ME plus I think yer a Moran!

Fingers crossed, you always will. For the day that YOU do not think I'm a "Moran" [sic], will be the day that I have most assuredly become one.

[rock on sooner]

ME plus I think yer a Moran!

Hey, Vet, better be careful what you say er someone will jump all over you,
tell you they hate this or that and you should just go somewhere...:highly_amused:

[OUmillenium]

A team is only as good as its qb. While TK had one of his best games, pick 6 is hard top overcome against a tough opponent (see TCU game). Kicker failed when it mattered. Heupel had a few bonehead calls that added to the fail. I like Mike and I like Bob. I think Bob has caused our offensive coordinators over the years to be too conservative at times which causes our overall competitiveness to drop...at times. This was a weird game with too many fails by the defense early, a couple bad calls by the OC, a costly pick 6, and missed FG. Let's keep Bob but we gotta find bigtime qb play where a bonehead OC call can be dealt with better (outside of a direct handoff to a D sold out to stop the run) and keep building depth on D.

We won't win another championship until...
1. we have a stout Defense, not one that routinely gives up 30+ points
2. we have a big time qb - I'm fine with TK turning into that but it doesn't look promising

This loss is painful because there is no way to salvage a championship. I'm gonna try and watch and enjoy the Sooners and hope for big things next year. Hope Blake Bell is alright.

[jkjsooner]

I think maybe Stoops needs to get over his SEC obsession and focus more on what's going on within his program. How about they recruit some quality receivers instead of relying on transfers and figure out the whole timeout issue. The bluster loses its luster when your team underperforms against quality competition. I'm very glad to see quality teams emerging in the bigXII but I would prefer ou beat them to back up the talk.

What makes you think Stoops has an SEC obsession? He's been asked a question a couple of times and he answered the question truthfully.

Nothing he said was even that outrageous. For example, he was asked about the perceived superiority of SEC players. He answered the question, "That hasn't been the case in our experience. Whoever we've played, that hasn't been much of a difference."

Only in a world where anything short of raining praise on the SEC is an insult is that trash talking. In either case, he's simply answered questions he's been asked about.

[jkjsooner]

I think one of the differences is that it doesn't appear that we have as many great football players in-state as we have had. It seems our title hopes (and frankly our basketball success) really depends on the state produces a few really good players. We have Shepard but who else?

In 2008 we had Bradford, McCoy, and Gresham. Earlier in the decade we had Lehman and Calmus who (along with Harris and Williams) really anchored the defense.

Switzer was lucky enough to get some really good guys in-state (Selmons being the obvious example.)

It seems that to some extent our success relies on having some strong in-state recruits.

[Sooner in Tampa]

So in the past five years, OU's average final AP rank has been about 13. That's pretty good. Definitely 3 star, maybe even 4 star. But 5 star? HELL NO!!!!!

As for who's done better? Chris Peterson for one. Do the same math for his Boise State teams over the same time period. Bet you won't like the answer you get.

Do the same for that buffoon Les Miles. Bet you won't like that answer either.

And these aren't the only two examples!

Hmmm....Chris Peterson is at Washington now...how is that working out for UW? They have only played two ranked teams and they lost to both of them. They are 106th in the nation in passing and 54th in the nation in rushing. Ehhh...not so much, it is easy to be a big fish in a small pond (aka Boise State). No Thanks

And of course Lester...they have two losses already and are staring at least two more...Alabama and Ole Miss...tell me again what a great job he is doing? He has incredible turnover every year from kids leaving his program as soon as they get the chance...not to mention having to deal with that buffoon all the time. No thanks

So do tell...who replaces Stoops?

[Snrinhouston]

Hmmm....Chris Peterson is at Washington now...how is that working out for UW? They have only played two ranked teams and they lost to both of them. They are 106th in the nation in passing and 54th in the nation in rushing. Ehhh...not so much, it is easy to be a big fish in a small pond (aka Boise State). No Thanks

And of course Lester...they have two losses already and are staring at least two more...Alabama and Ole Miss...tell me again what a great job he is doing? He has incredible turnover every year from kids leaving his program as soon as they get the chance...not to mention having to deal with that buffoon all the time. No thanks

So do tell...who replaces Stoops?

The question was who has done better than Stoops the past five years. The statistics I provided indicated that both Miles and Peterson have gotten better results. So either argue that I have the stats wrong or that the stats are misrepresentative or irrelevant.

You are seriously gonna knock Peterson based upon his first half-season at Washington? A rebuilding job, where he's not had time to have his own recruits. Really? I guess you'd have asked the same thing about Pete Carroll after his first year at SC when he went 6-6? "Gee, SC (insert Jethro Bodine laugh) how is that working out for you?"

And mock Miles all you want for the buffoon his is. I do. But how many rings does he have? Last I checked two is more than one, no? Bob beat Miles every time their teams met?

[olevetonahill]

Hmmm....Chris Peterson is at Washington now...how is that working out for UW? They have only played two ranked teams and they lost to both of them. They are 106th in the nation in passing and 54th in the nation in rushing. Ehhh...not so much, it is easy to be a big fish in a small pond (aka Boise State). No Thanks

And of course Lester...they have two losses already and are staring at least two more...Alabama and Ole Miss...tell me again what a great job he is doing? He has incredible turnover every year from kids leaving his program as soon as they get the chance...not to mention having to deal with that buffoon all the time. No thanks


So do tell...who replaces Stoops?

Cant you read Bro? The Moran done said he wants Bob gone and for us to hire Saban.

[Snrinhouston]

Cant you read Bro? The Moran done said he wants Bob gone and for us to hire Saban.

Yes. Yes. That's it. That is precisely what I said. I said to fire Bob and hire Saban. I clearly said that in Post #19 on this thread...er, except for the fact that I didn't. But hell Vet, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. You never have, so why start now?

Now YOU go practice YOUR reading, while the grownups talk football.

[olevetonahill]

Yes. Yes. That's it. That is precisely what I said. I said to fire Bob and hire Saban. I clearly said that in Post #19 on this thread...er, except for the fact that I didn't. But hell Vet, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. You never have, so why start now?


Now YOU go practice YOUR reading, while the grownups talk football.


Wow, thats so witty can I use that some time?

[Snrinhouston]

Wow, thats so witty can I use that some time?

Hey, I give you credit for responding. Not substantively, of course. You never do.

You lead with your chin, get whacked, fall down....but you do keep coming back for more. I'll give you that.

Hey...now I know why you use the Cool Hand Luke picture!!!! Like that character, you keep getting whacked to the ground, but somehow get up. No chance of ever landing a verbal punch, but you damn sure can take 'em.

Do you swallow hard boiled eggs too?

[olevetonahill]

Hey, I give you credit for responding. Not substantively, of course. You never do.

You lead with your chin, get whacked, fall down....but you do keep coming back for more. I'll give you that.

Hey...now I know why you use the Cool Hand Luke picture!!!! Like that character, you keep getting whacked to the ground, but somehow get up. No chance of ever landing a verbal punch, but you damn sure can take 'em.

Do you swallow hard boiled eggs too?
I et 24 the other day do that count?
As for why I have that Pic there you aint been around long enough to understand,
But I appreciate yer kind words. Ill treasure them always

[stoopified]

Around 2003 I predicted Bob would be 161-23 with4NCs after 15 years at OU. Well I was close on victories but off on NCs and losses. IMHO Bob has work to do to reach the level of Barry and Bud.I don'twant Bob replaced BUT I do honestly believe he needs to step up his coaching game. Maybe he needs to pull a Snyder and start working 16 hours a day and push his coaches harder

[olevetonahill]

Around 2003 I predicted Bob would be 161-23 with4NCs after 15 years at OU. Well I was close on victories but off on NCs and losses. IMHO Bob has work to do to reach the level of Barry and Bud.I don'twant Bob replaced BUT I do honestly believe he needs to step up his coaching game. Maybe he needs to pull a Snyder and start working 16 hours a day and push his coaches harder

I can agree with this.

[Snrinhouston]

Around 2003 I predicted Bob would be 161-23 with4NCs after 15 years at OU. Well I was close on victories but off on NCs and losses. IMHO Bob has work to do to reach the level of Barry and Bud.I don'twant Bob replaced BUT I do honestly believe he needs to step up his coaching game. Maybe he needs to pull a Snyder and start working 16 hours a day and push his coaches harder

Agree. Again, I think it's very simple. When you get paid 5-star money, 5-star results are expected. The past 5 seasons have NOT been 5 star.

Problem is, I'm not sure you can catch lightening in a bottle and get that same Stoops again. He's human like we all are. And he's now a VERY wealthy man. Nothing to be afraid of as he was when he first took the job.

[SoonerorLater]

Agree. Again, I think it's very simple. When you get paid 5-star money, 5-star results are expected. The past 5 seasons have NOT been 5 star.

Problem is, I'm not sure you can catch lightening in a bottle and get that same Stoops again. He's human like we all are. And he's now a VERY wealthy man. Nothing to be afraid of as he was when he first took the job.

5 years is kind of arbitrary and simply because you find a few coaches who have a slight better win Percentage over that time frame doesn't mean that Stoops is anything but a premiere coach or is unlikely to produce another championship.

[Snrinhouston]

5 years is kind of arbitrary and simply because you find a few coaches who have a slight better win Percentage over that time frame doesn't mean that Stoops is anything but a premiere coach or is unlikely to produce another championship.

I don't think 5 years is arbitrary. One, that is the amount of time since OU's last NC game. Two, it is the amount of time that many pundits say a new head coach should be given before his performance is judged. OU's average final AP ranking the past 5 years has been 13. And that's only computed by assigning OU a 25 ranking at the end of the 2009 season, when in fact it was not ranked in the top 25. If you consider an average AP ranking of 13 and not even being in NC contention through the middle of November to be "premiere" performance, then we have different understandings of what "premiere" is.

What Saban has done the past 5 years is premiere. What Bob did the first 5 years is premiere. What he's doing now is pretty good. I want OU football to be better than "pretty good".

[SoonerorLater]

I don't think 5 years is arbitrary. One, that is the amount of time since OU's last NC game. Two, it is the amount of time that many pundits say a new head coach should be given before his performance is judged. OU's average final AP ranking the past 5 years has been 13. And that's only computed by assigning OU a 25 ranking at the end of the 2009 season, when in fact it was not ranked in the top 25. If you consider an average AP ranking of 13 and not even being in NC contention through the middle of November to be "premiere" performance, then we have different understandings of what "premiere" is.

What Saban has done the past 5 years is premiere. What Bob did the first 5 years is premiere. What he's doing now is pretty good. I want OU football to be better than "pretty good".

And Saban's salary reflects that success. Unless you see Saban coming to Oklahoma then I'm not sure where we go with this line of thought.

[Snrinhouston]

And Saban's salary reflects that success. Unless you see Saban coming to Oklahoma then I'm not sure where we go with this line of thought.


Bob's salary is 2nd highest. Only behind Saban's. I would have very mixed feelings about Saban being OUs coach. Can't stand him. Can't argue with his success. I'm just pointing out that Saban's results over the past five years have truly been premiere. Bob's results by comparison cannot be called premiere. Again, the results have been pretty good. Somewhere between B and B+. His salary is somewhere between A and A+.

[SoonerorLater]

Bob's salary is 2nd highest. Only behind Saban's. I would have very mixed feelings about Saban being OUs coach. Can't stand him. Can't argue with his success. I'm just pointing out that Saban's results over the past five years have truly been premiere. Bob's results by comparison cannot be called premiere. Again, the results have been pretty good. Somewhere between B and B+. His salary is somewhere between A and A+.

It isn't really possible that coaches pay will reflect what is happening at any given point. There isn't going always to be a direct one for one relationship between what a coach earns and his win-loss record. I would think Stoops was probably making C money and got A+ results when he won a NC. It all evens out as there will almost assuredly be guys passing him on the salary scale after this year.

Stoops is not only being paid based on current and past performance but also on expectations for the future. History suggests that coaches with Stoops resume will deliver results.

[aero]

I could care less what Stoops makes. As a matter of fact I would expect the head coach at OU to be in the coaching top earners. For that matter I hope the assistants are some of the highest paid. Stoops has done plenty at OU to get some slack. A NC, lots of conference trophies, been in the mix for more NC's than most schools, and plenty of wins. And he's a stand up guy and OU has been pretty clean. I'm not even hinting that he should go. But maybe his assistants need to be re-evaluated and I agree with stoopified in that I think he needs to step things up a bit, however and whatever that takes. I'm guessing he might even know himself. I hope he's not as myopic as Mack Brown was. I think Stoops needs to and I also think he can.

[Snrinhouston]

Ok. Let me pose this question.

If you knew today that OU would not get into the four team playoff during the next 5 seasons, but would consistently have 10-2 or 9-3 regular season records, would you be ok with that?

[rock on sooner]

Around 2003 I predicted Bob would be 161-23 with4NCs after 15 years at OU. Well I was close on victories but off on NCs and losses. IMHO Bob has work to do to reach the level of Barry and Bud.I don'twant Bob replaced BUT I do honestly believe he needs to step up his coaching game. Maybe he needs to pull a Snyder and start working 16 hours a day and push his coaches harder

Here's my thought on this..Nobody seems to take into account that other schools
draw on a loyal fan base and legacy schollies, etc and this has been building for a
long time. I used to think why ANY player in OK would not want to play for the Sooners?
Still do, most of the time, but that is the case in OK, TX, KS, MO, OH. MI and so on....
Face it, we aren't the center of the universe, (although I don't know why). Bama, Fl,
MS, etc...this is going to keep on keepin' on...so, OUr coaches RILLY need to have their
selling hats on. Ya know, it used ta be...you come to OK and we'll win championships,
if you don't, we'll still win chanpionships....not that way now....jus' sayin...

[SoonerorLater]

Ok. Let me pose this question.

If you knew today that OU would not get into the four team playoff during the next 5 seasons, but would consistently have 10-2 or 9-3 regular season records, would you be ok with that?

If by OK you mean happy or pleased, probably not. What I am saying is that Bob Stoops record suggests that will not be the case.

[Snrinhouston]

If by OK you mean happy or pleased, probably not. What I am saying is that Bob Stoops record suggests that will not be the case.

Ok. That clarifies the point on which we disagree. I don't think Stoops will get the team to the playoff in the next 5 years. You do. I hope you prove me wrong.

[SoonerorLater]

Ok. That clarifies the point on which we disagree. I don't think Stoops will get the team to the playoff in the next 5 years. You do. I hope you prove me wrong.

Below are the 5 year records of three coaches on major college programs. In your opinion are these coaches that have their teams going in the right direction? If you were the AD would you retain these coaches or look to hire a new coach?

Coach #1
-----
Season 1 11-2
Season 2 10-2
Season 3 9-3
Season 4 9-2
Season 5 9-3



Coach #2
----
Season 1 11-0
Season 2 8-2-1
Season 3 8-3
Season 4 6-5
Season 5 6-5


Coach #3
------
Season 1 11-1
Season 2 10-2
Season 3 7-4
Season 4 8-4
Season 5 8-4

[Snrinhouston]

Below are the 5 year records of three coaches on major college programs. In your opinion are these coaches that have their teams going in the right direction? If you were the AD would you retain these coaches or look to hire a new coach?

Coach #1
-----
Season 1 11-2
Season 2 10-2
Season 3 9-3
Season 4 9-2
Season 5 9-3



Coach #2
----
Season 1 11-0
Season 2 8-2-1
Season 3 8-3
Season 4 6-5
Season 5 6-5


Coach #3
------
Season 1 11-1
Season 2 10-2
Season 3 7-4
Season 4 8-4
Season 5 8-4

Season 5 is the most recent season or the season 5 years ago?

Also, are these the only 5 years that the coaches have been at these respective schools?

[aurorasooner]

Ok. That clarifies the point on which we disagree. I don't think Stoops will get the team to the playoff in the next 5 years. You do. I hope you prove me wrong. I don't think he will either unless perhaps TK goes down with something like a David Ash type injury and Mayfield or perhaps C. Thomas steps up with some miraculous talent similar to a Sammy 1st pick in the draft, putting up 50 or 60 consistently on the offensive side, which will mask our OC's obvious brain spasms and our our continuous defensive breakdowns.

We might next year if we hit gold with that happening along with DGB staying and Mixon not bolting back to Cali and perhaps moving into the slot or motioned out of the backfield into the slot. Along with SS staying would pretty much be unstoppable. But that only happens if we get in with one loss, because it seems to be this staff's destiny to cough up at least one we should win.

[SoonerorLater]

Season 5 the most recent. No each coach at their school for substantially more than 5 years.

[Snrinhouston]

Season 5 the most recent. No each coach at their school for substantially more than 5 years.

If I were the AD of Texas, Bama, USC, Ohio State, Michigan, OU, and any other traditional power school, I'd fire coaches 2 and 3. Prolly keep coach 1 for another year or two depending on BCS bowl wins.

[Snrinhouston]

If I were the AD of Texas, Bama, USC, Ohio State, Michigan, OU, and any other traditional power school, I'd fire coaches 2 and 3. Prolly keep coach 1 for another year or two depending on BCS bowl wins.

Sorry, misread that....thought it said No coach at school for substantially more than 5 years...you meant, that Yes, each coach has been there much longer than 5 years...

[Snrinhouston]

...In that case...not enough information to decide.

[SoonerorLater]

You're one tough AD. You just fired Barry Switzer and Bear Bryant. But since you decided to let Tom Osborne keep his job for a year or two more you would have been rewarded with two national championships. I chose these guys (a) because they were all coaches from national power schools (b) They are among the relatively few such coaches with a lifetime winning percentage like Stoops (c) they had been tenured at their schools for a good deal of time when they had these five year streaks (d) they were similar age wise and not just old timers hanging on because they couldn't let go (think Bowden and Paterno)

In each case these coaches won national championships after these stretches. Bryant and Osborne won multiple championships. I think in coaching past performance is a good indicator of future results. Not perfect but good.

[Snrinhouston]

You're one tough AD. You just fired Barry Switzer and Bear Bryant. But since you decided to let Tom Osborne keep his job for a year or two more you would have been rewarded with two national championships. I chose these guys (a) because they were all coaches from national power schools (b) They are among the relatively few such coaches with a lifetime winning percentage like Stoops (c) they had been tenured at their schools for a good deal of time when they had these five year streaks (d) they were similar age wise and not just old timers hanging on because they couldn't let go (think Bowden and Paterno)

In each case these coaches won national championships after these stretches. Bryant and Osborne won multiple championships. I think in coaching past performance is a good indicator of future results. Not perfect but good.

No . I didn't fire any of the coaches. Once I correctly read your post, I determined that I needed more info. Without even looking it up, you were referring to Switzer between 79-83. He had the two previous national championships and a string of Orange Bowl wins to buffet him during the leaner 81-83 years. This is the type of additional info that I clearly stated would be needed. Even still, remember that Switzer knew that 84 best be remarkably better or he'd be fired. After the KU loss, he implored his team that it needed a win the next week at Columbia for him to keep his job.

[BoulderSooner79]

Bob's salary is 2nd highest. Only behind Saban's. I would have very mixed feelings about Saban being OUs coach. Can't stand him. Can't argue with his success. I'm just pointing out that Saban's results over the past five years have truly been premiere. Bob's results by comparison cannot be called premiere. Again, the results have been pretty good. Somewhere between B and B+. His salary is somewhere between A and A+.

If you insist on looking at pay, you have to know what goals have been laid out for him by his boss and the board of regents. I don't know what they are, but I suspect success on the field is a large factor, but not all of it. I'm sure revenue into the school and athletic dept are in there too. Keeping fans happy on message boards probably doesn't come up much.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I ****in hate OU message boards after a loss!! So many Monday Morning QBs who think they are geniuses...

Sooner fans may be the most petulant group of people ever...well, at least in the running...

[BlownGP]

And mock Miles all you want for the buffoon his is. I do. But how many rings does he have? Last I checked two is more than one, no? Bob beat Miles every time their teams met?

Les Miles has ONE championship and people can argue those were with Nick Sabans players.

Hate to say it, but I think Les and Bob are about equal when it comes to coaching. They just recruit very well and end up having good teams..

Now the re-match bore fest SEC national championship game, LSU had a very good team even with their two QBs, but bama was just a hell of a lot better.

[BlownGP]

I ****in hate OU message boards after a loss!! So many Monday Morning QBs who think they are geniuses...

Sooner fans may be the most petulant group of people ever...well, at least in the running...


AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!