So what do we know about this team?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Offense
1. We have 1 threat - Sterling. He is our best short threat, reverse threat, deep threat, and threat to take the ball a long way.
2. We have no one who can stretch the middle of the field. Our best middle threat is Bell in the 15 yard range.
3. We are weak at guard. Not strength wise, but execution wise. They miss blocks consistently which really hurts our run game.
4. Our QB is showing signs of the "sophomore slump". Yes he is throwing some bad balls, but even when he throws a perfect one it gets dropped

Defense
1. We can't get a bounce to go our way. I don't think I've ever seen a unit get bit so many times by call reversals or loose balls bouncing right back to the other team. Seriously, the last 2 games have been ridiculous.
2. Our safeties are busting coverage at an alarming rate. When you have a linebacker and a corner screaming at safeties to get a man, you have some issues. They are basically non-existent in run support until back are 10 yards down the field.
3. Our linebackers are just frustrating. Jordan Evans has a lot more Travis Lewis in him than Rocky Calmus (its an upgrade, but gah). So many times where he just takes the play off it isn't even funny. Alexander is another sophomore slump nominee, he is just invisible out there. I liked what I saw out of Bond and Franklin from an effort perspective.
4. Tapper belongs on a milk carton
5. Sanchez - as much grief as everyone wants to pile on him, he continues to produce INTs. Just like with Gabe Lynn last year, coaches will put up with a lot of issues if you can get them the ball back.
6. Our defense is on the field way too much

Special Teams
1. Ross should win some award this year
2. Sterling doesn't have the knack for punt returning
3. Barnett seems to be channeling the same problem as Knight - how can a guy be so good during the Sugar Bowl and so meh during this season? That last punt is just a microcosm of what I see out of him - 23 seconds left, if that ball hits the ground its game over. So you kick it into the end zone? grrr.

Summary
This team reminds me a lot of the 2001 offense with the 2002 defense -> a bunch of mismatched parts at the wrong stages of their careers. It doesn't mean they can't win a lot of games, it just means that it is going to be a struggle.

[Blue]

Same s.hit... different shovel

[BoulderSooner79]

There was a quote on LT (off color, of course) that summed up this game before kick-off. "I'm only 3/4 erect for this game". I kind of felt the same way before this game, after last week. I thought we would win, but I figured I witness the same frustrating struggle that is lacking signs of improving week to week. In CFB, if you're not getting better, you're falling behind because everyone is improving. But sometimes learning comes in spurts instead of gradually, so maybe we'll see that out of this team. Needs to come next week.

[Snrinhouston]

Simple. Any fan who still thinks this team can challenge for the National Championship is delusional.

[BoulderSooner79]

Simple. Any fan who still thinks this team can challenge for the National Championship is delusional.

"Fan"attics are often delusional.

BOOMER!

:drunk:

[SoonerorLater]

We know that offensively this team has no dynamic or identity. Defensively they were somewhat overrated but they are certainly good enough to keep us in games.

[Okie35]

We apparently have a better defense than Baylor.

[Okie35]

We know that offensively this team has no dynamic or identity. Defensively they were somewhat overrated but they are certainly good enough to keep us in games.

We aren't overrated we just can't get them off the field. Sometimes we are too aggressive.

[PhiDeltBeers]

But Baylor only gave up 7 points to TX.

[Okie35]

But Baylor only gave up 7 points to TX.

Texas fumbled on the goal line.

[soonerfan69]

But Baylor only gave up 7 points to TX.

And 44 thru 3 Qts to TCU

[East Coast Bias]

We are a middle-tier team, not great on offense or defense. We need a possession receiver like Broyles and should give Maysfield a chance at some point if we aren't going to run the QB.

[Blue]

We are a middle-tier team, not great on offense or defense. We need a possession receiver like Broyles and should give Maysfield a chance at some point if we aren't going to run the QB.

Where you been man? Mayfield is ineligible.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

We are a middle-tier team, not great on offense or defense. We need a possession receiver like Broyles and should give Maysfield a chance at some point if we aren't going to run the QB.

That is a little harsh. We are INCONSISTENT on offense and defense. On any given day we could be #1 or #25.

[East Coast Bias]

I was looking at next year on Maysfield.

[East Coast Bias]

Middle tier to me would be Clemson,Nebraska,Wisconsin,UCLA, possible Notre Dame,Arizona. With what we have seen so far jkm, do you think we could hang with the Auburn,Miss State and FSU's of college football? I think the way we played TCU says maybe, but there are a lot of missing pieces.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Middle tier to me would be Clemson,Nebraska,Wisconsin,UCLA, possible Notre Dame,Arizona. With what we have seen so far jkm, do you think we could hang with the Auburn,Miss State and FSU's of college football? I think the way we played TCU says maybe, but there are a lot of missing pieces.

Yes and No. It depends on which OU team shows up ;)

[cherokeebrewer]

I was looking at next year on Maysfield.

Mayfield...not a spell checker but you did it twice...

[East Coast Bias]

Mayfield...not a spell checker but you did it twice...

Well, I should get credit for getting Notre Dame right?

[cherokeebrewer]

Well, I should get credit for getting Notre Dame right?

lol

[swardboy]

That "hurry up" thingy we did worked really well. I get so sick of the meerkat look.

[8timechamps]

Offense
1. We have 1 threat - Sterling. He is our best short threat, reverse threat, deep threat, and threat to take the ball a long way.
2. We have no one who can stretch the middle of the field. Our best middle threat is Bell in the 15 yard range.
3. We are weak at guard. Not strength wise, but execution wise. They miss blocks consistently which really hurts our run game.
4. Our QB is showing signs of the "sophomore slump". Yes he is throwing some bad balls, but even when he throws a perfect one it gets dropped

Defense
1. We can't get a bounce to go our way. I don't think I've ever seen a unit get bit so many times by call reversals or loose balls bouncing right back to the other team. Seriously, the last 2 games have been ridiculous.
2. Our safeties are busting coverage at an alarming rate. When you have a linebacker and a corner screaming at safeties to get a man, you have some issues. They are basically non-existent in run support until back are 10 yards down the field.
3. Our linebackers are just frustrating. Jordan Evans has a lot more Travis Lewis in him than Rocky Calmus (its an upgrade, but gah). So many times where he just takes the play off it isn't even funny. Alexander is another sophomore slump nominee, he is just invisible out there. I liked what I saw out of Bond and Franklin from an effort perspective.
4. Tapper belongs on a milk carton
5. Sanchez - as much grief as everyone wants to pile on him, he continues to produce INTs. Just like with Gabe Lynn last year, coaches will put up with a lot of issues if you can get them the ball back.
6. Our defense is on the field way too much

Special Teams
1. Ross should win some award this year
2. Sterling doesn't have the knack for punt returning
3. Barnett seems to be channeling the same problem as Knight - how can a guy be so good during the Sugar Bowl and so meh during this season? That last punt is just a microcosm of what I see out of him - 23 seconds left, if that ball hits the ground its game over. So you kick it into the end zone? grrr.

Summary
This team reminds me a lot of the 2001 offense with the 2002 defense -> a bunch of mismatched parts at the wrong stages of their careers. It doesn't mean they can't win a lot of games, it just means that it is going to be a struggle.

Pretty good analysis jkm.

The only disagreement I have is with Shepard being the only threat. I've watch Durron Neal very closely in every game this year, and the kid is good. For some reason, we don't seem to target him much. Outside of the back-to-back drops he had at WVU, he's got really good hands. He's also got great burst (although he isn't the fastest guy after that). We saw another solid play out of him today that was a safety away from going the distance. IF Knight ever gels with Neal, I think he could quickly be the second threat we need to take some pressure off of Shep...but, that still hasn't happened.

Otherwise, I agree 100% with your analysis. This is not a play-off team right now. Still a lot of football left, and I believe we have the capacity to be one of the final four, but right now, we're not there.

[8timechamps]

Middle tier to me would be Clemson,Nebraska,Wisconsin,UCLA, possible Notre Dame,Arizona. With what we have seen so far jkm, do you think we could hang with the Auburn,Miss State and FSU's of college football? I think the way we played TCU says maybe, but there are a lot of missing pieces.

We are definitely not a middle tier team. We would beat Cleamson, Nebraska, Wisconsin, UCLA and Notre Dame. I have no idea about Arizona, because the jury is still out on them.

We could beat Auburn and FSU. We'd have to play much better to beat Mississippi State...plus they have a dual threat QB that is better than Nick Marshall, and more mobile than Winston.

We beat ourselves at TCU, that's clear. We asked way too much from our defense today, and gave Texas a chance. We can't put our defense on the field for almost 40:00 and expect to win much. We got help from the special teams today, and the offense finally came around long enough to score, but our offensive issues are making our defense look worse than it really is right now.

Like jkm said, I think we could beat every team you mentioned...but it depends on which team shows up.

[rock on sooner]

Hmmmmm, lessee, the track meet in Waco produced 4000 yards of offense
and a zillion points...if Baylor is clicking like that when they come to Norman,
embarrassment on an epic level is manifest, never before seen in Central OK,
in any years in my 65 year memory..

I really thought that M Stoops would have his D ready to go, but the boys couldn't
tackle for zip, couldn't shut down a third down and TK had a struggle for the second
week in a row...

Playoff team, not now..."old BCS bowl"...probably...I'll change my tune if we get
through K St and Baylor. Yup, K St....

[8timechamps]

Hmmmmm, lessee, the track meet in Waco produced 4000 yards of offense
and a zillion points...if Baylor is clicking like that when they come to Norman,
embarrassment on an epic level is manifest, never before seen in Central OK,
in any years in my 65 year memory..

I really thought that M Stoops would have his D ready to go, but the boys couldn't
tackle for zip, couldn't shut down a third down and TK had a struggle for the second
week in a row...

Playoff team, not now..."old BCS bowl"...probably...I'll change my tune if we get
through K St and Baylor. Yup, K St....

Baylor is not the same team they were a year ago (mostly on defense), but if they have a good game, and we are still struggling with mental errors and the offensive isn't clicking, it will be ugly. We still have time to get our act together though. Most importantly, we have to find a way to get our defense off the field.

I'm not very concerned about K-State. I know they also present a problem, but barring a game like we had at TCU, I think we'll be fine.

[vtsooner21]

This year's Sooners Edition is a mystery at best. Week in & week out thus far has been a "wait & see game". Never know what we'll be seeing out there on the field. Thought there would be Sooner Magic this season, but not even close. The tough part is having such a terrible feeling even after beating Texas...My question is what has happened to third down efficiency? And those huge horses up front that were clearing holes for the running game at one point? Is it finally playing better teams that load up the box with eight defenders? Relying on one or two targets on pass plays? Nobody else seems to get open. This team is truly an enigma..
Boomer

[soonercastor]

For some reason I just am not worried about Baylor at all.

[8timechamps]

This year's Sooners Edition is a mystery at best. Week in & week out thus far has been a "wait & see game". Never know what we'll be seeing out there on the field. Thought there would be Sooner Magic this season, but not even close. The tough part is having such a terrible feeling even after beating Texas...My question is what has happened to third down efficiency? And those huge horses up front that were clearing holes for the running game at one point? Is it finally playing better teams that load up the box with eight defenders? Relying on one or two targets on pass plays? Nobody else seems to get open. This team is truly an enigma..
Boomer

I haven't looked through the entire game, but I know there were two third down plays where Knight put the ball on the money, and they pass was dropped. One by Young, the other my our most sure handed guy Shepard. Just an odd deal.

A lot of the 3rd down conversation rate is a reflection of 3rd and long, which results in passing plays 9 out of 10 times. I'd be interested to know what our 3rd down conversion rate is on 3rd and 3 or less. That would be interesting.

[8timechamps]

For some reason I just am not worried about Baylor at all.

That's how I feel about K-State, but Baylor doesn't have the defense they had last year...and Petty isn't the same QB either. Both of those being at home also helps settle my nerves.

[BoulderSooner79]

...and Petty isn't the same QB either.

Agreed. Petty didn't put up 500+ yds passing and 6 TDs against TCU last year.

:nevreness:

[Tear Down This Wall]

Offense



3. Barnett seems to be channeling the same problem as Knight - how can a guy be so good during the Sugar Bowl and so meh during this season? That last punt is just a microcosm of what I see out of him - 23 seconds left, if that ball hits the ground its game over. So you kick it into the end zone? grrr.



The same reason many Boise State players looked great against us in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl - we didn't give as much as a sh*t about winning it as they did.

Alabama lost the opportunity to play for the national title until the last play of their regular season last year. They gave zero craps about playing us. Plus, their idiot offensive coordinator couldn't look up and down his roster and figure out his best plan would be running Yeldon and Henry all night long. He was trying to get their half-as*sed QB better draft position for the NFL.

It failed. Their defense didn't give a crap. And, the offense had a horribly misguided game plan anyway.

I'm happy that we beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. But, it means nothing today...other than it made a hell of a lot of people falsely believe that Knight was the best QB we had on our roster.

[BlownGP]

I haven't looked through the entire game, but I know there were two third down plays where Knight put the ball on the money, and they pass was dropped. One by Young, the other my our most sure handed guy Shepard. Just an odd deal.

A lot of the 3rd down conversation rate is a reflection of 3rd and long, which results in passing plays 9 out of 10 times. I'd be interested to know what our 3rd down conversion rate is on 3rd and 3 or less. That would be interesting.

I said that in the other thread. The times TK throws a perfect pass it's dropped. Kinda sad really.

The competition has gotten better, but TCU, Texas just focus on stopping the run and make TK beat them which he's 1-1. WV tired but it was too late in the 2nd half.

What's really crazy is I think Ford is our 2nd best receiver.. lol... We need him back

[Widescreen]

For some reason I just am not worried about Baylor at all.

Is it the amazing performances by the Sooners the last two weeks that has put your mind at ease?

[BlownGP]

The same reason many Boise State players looked great against us in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl - we didn't give as much as a sh*t about winning it as they did.

Alabama lost the opportunity to play for the national title until the last play of their regular season last year. They gave zero craps about playing us. Plus, their idiot offensive coordinator couldn't look up and down his roster and figure out his best plan would be running Yeldon and Henry all night long. He was trying to get their half-as*sed QB better draft position for the NFL.

It failed. Their defense didn't give a crap. And, the offense had a horribly misguided game plan anyway.

I'm happy that we beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. But, it means nothing today...other than it made a hell of a lot of people falsely believe that Knight was the best QB we had on our roster.



ehhhhh... That's a load of crap.. It wasn't like we blew out Bama. It was close the entire game...

I agree bama could have ran the whole game and we wouldn't have stopped them, but I'm pretty sure they cared about the game.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The same reason many Boise State players looked great against us in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl - we didn't give as much as a sh*t about winning it as they did.

Alabama lost the opportunity to play for the national title until the last play of their regular season last year. They gave zero craps about playing us. Plus, their idiot offensive coordinator couldn't look up and down his roster and figure out his best plan would be running Yeldon and Henry all night long. He was trying to get their half-as*sed QB better draft position for the NFL.

It failed. Their defense didn't give a crap. And, the offense had a horribly misguided game plan anyway.

I'm happy that we beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. But, it means nothing today...other than it made a hell of a lot of people falsely believe that Knight was the best QB we had on our roster.

So the punter put the ball inside the 5 yard line 3 times because Alabama didn't want to be there? I know you hate this team, but there are things that you can't blame on the other team.

[SoonerForLife92]

Not sure about saying our defense is playing bad. The safeties are terrible and the middle of the field was open too often. But we stopped the run well for the most part and had some good pass break ups. Still the safeties playing bad make the entire unit look bad.

What I do not understand what so ever, something I cannot wrap my head around, why in the world on EVERY running play, do we run the read-option without the read? What the hell is the point in that?? Calling that play doesn't work unless you let the QB actually make the read which the coaches aren't letting Knight do. Why the hell would you not mix up the running game? We had a play under center yesterday... And it was a roll out pass... The playcalling was stepped up more in the second half but cmon... If your o-line is not manhandling the D don't you think it would be in your best interest to mix up the running game? But no we called the read-option without the read practically every run play.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Not sure about saying our defense is playing bad. The safeties are terrible and the middle of the field was open too often. But we stopped the run well for the most part and had some good pass break ups. Still the safeties playing bad make the entire unit look bad.

What I do not understand what so ever, something I cannot wrap my head around, why in the world on EVERY running play, do we run the read-option without the read? What the hell is the point in that?? Calling that play doesn't work unless you let the QB actually make the read which the coaches aren't letting Knight do. Why the hell would you not mix up the running game? We had a play under center yesterday... And it was a roll out pass... The playcalling was stepped up more in the second half but cmon... If your o-line is not manhandling the D don't you think it would be in your best interest to mix up the running game? But no we called the read-option without the read practically every run play.

Part of it is that when you have big OL you have to give them time to get going. The read option puts a natural delay into the running game that allows stuff to develop. I also think that what they'd like to do is the run/pass read option that KState does.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

We apparently have a better defense than Baylor.

and that is what gives me a glimmer of optimism (along with playing them at home). If you can step thru the insanity to believing it a possibility that we right the offensive ship, we are in control of our own destiny - at least in terms of conference championship. Beat Baylor and OSU, and we'll be given the nod as conference representative in the same 3-way cluster like we had in 2008, with our head to head loss coming earlier in the season, and the wins coming later. Win out and we've got a shot - lets hope we're ranked high enough and conference champions. There will be losses hung on several of the teams ranked above us - starting next week.

[SoonerForLife92]

Part of it is that when you have big OL you have to give them time to get going. The read option puts a natural delay into the running game that allows stuff to develop. I also think that what they'd like to do is the run/pass read option that KState does.

Yeah I just don't understand that being pretty much the only run play we ran and without letting Knight pull it. It obviously wasn't working yet it was still the only run play we kept going back to. I'm surprised we even made the few halftime adjustements that we did

[cherokeebrewer]

Take the handcuffs off of TK. Unleash the kid and let him play his game. That's my contribution this day after..."We Beat Texas"

[TrophyCollector]

Part of it is that when you have big OL you have to give them time to get going. The read option puts a natural delay into the running game that allows stuff to develop. .

Yea, like the DE to crash on the RB and the LBs and Ss to fill gaps. Seems there have been a lot of really good running teams, with really good OLs that did not need to delay a handoff every time they ran.

[TAFBSooner]

and that is what gives me a glimmer of optimism (along with playing them at home). If you can step thru the insanity to believing it a possibility that we right the offensive ship, we are in control of our own destiny - at least in terms of conference championship. Beat Baylor and OSU, and we'll be given the nod as conference representative in the same 3-way cluster like we had in 2008, with our head to head loss coming earlier in the season, and the wins coming later. Win out and we've got a shot - lets hope we're ranked high enough and conference champions. There will be losses hung on several of the teams ranked above us - starting next week.

We need more than winning out.
SECeders (at least one) +
FSU or Notre Dame +
Oregon +
Michigan St =
four slots

[EatLeadCommie]

What I do not understand what so ever, something I cannot wrap my head around, why in the world on EVERY running play, do we run the read-option without the read? What the hell is the point in that?? Calling that play doesn't work unless you let the QB actually make the read which the coaches aren't letting Knight do.

I would love for somebody with time on their hand to go back to every game so far this year and find out how many times TK has actually kept the ball and run with it. I would be surprised if you can count them on one hand. I am positive you won't need more than two hands. And yet that play is run at least twice every time we have an offensive series, not counting the Texas game since we'd only run about 3 plays per series. It's usually at least once every 3 sets of downs.

[BoulderSooner79]

That just must be the way they practice the handoff since TK has obviously been told to not keep it. So just a mechanics thing. I would love to see him keep it and then throw that little out pass like other spread teams do. I'd rather see that than TK running it.

[8timechamps]

I would love for somebody with time on their hand to go back to every game so far this year and find out how many times TK has actually kept the ball and run with it. I would be surprised if you can count them on one hand. I am positive you won't need more than two hands. And yet that play is run at least twice every time we have an offensive series, not counting the Texas game since we'd only run about 3 plays per series. It's usually at least once every 3 sets of downs.

I'm actually working on something similar. I'm about half way through the Tennessee game.

Not sure when I'll finish, but I'd like to have it done before this weeks game. If I were a single guy, without kids (or friends :) ), I'd have a running spreadsheet, and it'd be done (through the Texas game)...but, since I can't devote my life to Sooner football (as much as I'd like to), it'll take a little longer.

[KantoSooner]

Honest question: would our team be better or worse if the coaching staff were ordered to stay away? Would the team be better if they just drew up their own plays and called them themselves a la pick up games?
I am so tired of watching the meercat routine prior to each offensive play and the fire drill prior to each defensive play that I could scream.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I would love for somebody with time on their hand to go back to every game so far this year and find out how many times TK has actually kept the ball and run with it. I would be surprised if you can count them on one hand. I am positive you won't need more than two hands. And yet that play is run at least twice every time we have an offensive series, not counting the Texas game since we'd only run about 3 plays per series. It's usually at least once every 3 sets of downs.

From what Merv Johnson is saying in broadcasts, there is not an option for Knight to keep on those plays that look like a zone read...That they are called handoffs from the sidelines.

[BoulderSooner79]

From what Merv Johnson is saying in broadcasts, there is not an option for Knight to keep on those plays that look like a zone read...That they are called handoffs from the sidelines.

I don't get how people don't understand this after 6 games.

[SoonerorLater]

I don't get how people don't understand this after 6 games.

I think a lot of us get it but wonder why if these are going to be straight up handoffs why we aren't just loading up in a diamond or some other power running formation. At this point taking a WR off the field doesn't seem to have much of a downside especially when Ford returns.

[Tear Down This Wall]

So the punter put the ball inside the 5 yard line 3 times because Alabama didn't want to be there? I know you hate this team, but there are things that you can't blame on the other team.

What in the hell are you talking about? We spend thousands of dollars every season as season ticket holders supporting this team and traveling to see them play. What I hate is misuse of the personnel.

What I also hate is being so stuck to one player, like Trevor Knight. It never makes sense to me that a school like ours only has one guy ready to go at quarterback. You can throw any like school into the conversation as well - Texas, Alabama, Michigan, USC. It never makes sense to me that you don't have back-ups you can go to if the number one guy isn't getting it done.

We get - and Texas gets, and Alabama gets, and USC gets, etc. - whomever we want in recruiting. So, there is no reason - other than multiple injuries - to be stuck with just relying on one guy, who isn't getting it done well.

When Jason White was injured, Nate Hybl was there and stepped in, getting two bowl wins, and a conference title. Landry Jones stepped in fro Sam Bradford, and although he didn't win a conference title that year, he did help snap of streak of losing bowl games.

It's irritating to watch Knight. He doesn't have a quick release. If he has to be in the run game - as with TCU - we see he gets gimpy. And, it wasn't the first time he was injured running. There were times last year as well. He's not like Nate Hybl, whom you could hit with a truck and he'd get up.

Plus, there was the cramping issue when he runs, the baloney we were given after putrid TCU beat us. What the hell good is a "running quarterback" who can't take hits and cramps up if it's more than 70 degrees outside and he has to run the ball more than five or six times?

[Tear Down This Wall]

Be realistic. If the offensive "brain" trust of this team has to call too conservatively because our "running quarterback" can't be hit hard and gets cramped, and can't throw the ball with touch or release quickly enough to hit the mark on many plays, what do you think opposing defenses will do?

They now have ample evidence that the Alabama Sugar Bowl game is probably not what they will get when they play us. In fact, I'd say that most of our remaining opponents will stack the line and dare us to try to beat them with Trevor's arm...and, that's not good odds.

Take away the kickoff return and Sanchez's interception return Saturday, and you have about what we can expect for the rest of the season from our offense.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think a lot of us get it but wonder why if these are going to be straight up handoffs why we aren't just loading up in a diamond or some other power running formation. At this point taking a WR off the field doesn't seem to have much of a downside especially when Ford returns.

Oh, I don't understand the reasoning behind it either, I just know that it's the way the coaches have decided to play it. So many of the posts are worded like TK is making mistakes in the read or the don't get why he never keeps it. Stoops has so much as said he is protect the QB position.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

What I also hate is being so stuck to one player, like Trevor Knight. It never makes sense to me that a school like ours only has one guy ready to go at quarterback. You can throw any like school into the conversation as well - Texas, Alabama, Michigan, USC. It never makes sense to me that you don't have back-ups you can go to if the number one guy isn't getting it done.


You are going to have to take that one up with the NCAA. They are the ones that are continually limiting practice time. You can't even compare today to the example you provided (Hybl/White in 2001 and 2002) because they've cut practice time by 30% since then. Every coach will tell you that QBs take the longest time to develop (between 1 to 3 years of major reps). Pretty much every QB that starts their first game is a 1 read guy. By their second year you are hoping for 2 reads (some never develop that).

The problem is that if the NCAA did give more QB practice time with the coaches, the reality is that 99% of the coaches would give those reps to the starter, not the backup.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think a lot of us get it but wonder why if these are going to be straight up handoffs why we aren't just loading up in a diamond or some other power running formation. At this point taking a WR off the field doesn't seem to have much of a downside especially when Ford returns.

It cuts both ways. It is actually easier to run out of the spread than a power formation if your linemen can block 1 on 1. There is so much space that it is much easier to find creases that get you 8-10 yards. Where power running is more effective is when you have OL that are physically dominating at the point of attack. They create bubbles in the D that inhibit pursuit allowing for really long gains if you get past the LOS. Our problem is that we don't really do either of those well until late in the game.

[SoonerForLife92]

Oh, I don't understand the reasoning behind it either, I just know that it's the way the coaches have decided to play it. So many of the posts are worded like TK is making mistakes in the read or the don't get why he never keeps it. Stoops has so much as said he is protect the QB position.

Yea that's the point I was making. It is baffling that we run a read option style handoff without letting Trevor read it practically every play. Hell they ran a play on Saturday from under center but it was a pass. Makes no sense that they can't mix in running it out of the diamond or a power formation like SoonerorLater stated. We have a big o-line and Ripkowski and flowers are beast for f**ks sake

[SoonerForLife92]

It cuts both ways. It is actually easier to run out of the spread than a power formation if your linemen can block 1 on 1. There is so much space that it is much easier to find creases that get you 8-10 yards. Where power running is more effective is when you have OL that are physically dominating at the point of attack. They create bubbles in the D that inhibit pursuit allowing for really long gains if you get past the LOS. Our problem is that we don't really do either of those well until late in the game.

True but that doesn't mean we shouldn't run it sometimes instead of running the same simplistic run game

[Tear Down This Wall]

You are going to have to take that one up with the NCAA. They are the ones that are continually limiting practice time. You can't even compare today to the example you provided (Hybl/White in 2001 and 2002) because they've cut practice time by 30% since then. Every coach will tell you that QBs take the longest time to develop (between 1 to 3 years of major reps). Pretty much every QB that starts their first game is a 1 read guy. By their second year you are hoping for 2 reads (some never develop that).

The problem is that if the NCAA did give more QB practice time with the coaches, the reality is that 99% of the coaches would give those reps to the starter, not the backup.

I buy that, to some degree. But, it doesn't bother you even a little, this Knight-hype we got after the Sugar Bowl? I never bought into it because that game was completely unlike every other game I'd seen him play. I have yet to see Alabama Trevor in 2014.

To me, you look at the whole picture of a player, not just one game. Otherwise, we'd be talking about Freddie Sims in the same breath as Billy Sims just because he ran for 181 yards in the second half of the 1981 Sun Bowl.

[PalmBeachSooner]

I'd really like to see the FB and TE more involved in the offense. It really seemed to work in our TD drive in the 2nd half.
It seems like the 95% of the offense is Perine and Shepard. It's not difficult for a defense to prepare for that.

I'm more concerned with our defense to be honest. They have put as much pressure on our offense as the opposing defense.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Here's what I think happened:

(1) Bell panicked after Knight's Sugar Bowl performance, talked to his NFL-alum dad and uncle, who likely advised him a move to TE would, at that point, be the best move for him if he was going to have an outside shot at the NFL.

(2) Bell goes to the coaches with the switch plan. The coaches agree, probably relived somewhat, because it would take away the second guessing about who should be the starting QB, Bell or Knight, should Knight falter. Plus, it would take away much of the pressure from Knight about having a former starter looking over his shoulder every game.

(3) All of this seemed like a win-win...until TCU and Texas exposed Knight as pretty much what he was last year except against Alabama.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I buy that, to some degree. But, it doesn't bother you even a little, this Knight-hype we got after the Sugar Bowl? I never bought into it because that game was completely unlike every other game I'd seen him play. I have yet to see Alabama Trevor in 2014.

To me, you look at the whole picture of a player, not just one game. Otherwise, we'd be talking about Freddie Sims in the same breath as Billy Sims just because he ran for 181 yards in the second half of the 1981 Sun Bowl.

As I've said since the spring on the Sugar Bowl, we knew that Knight could throw those sideline routes as he'd done it to some degree for the entire year. What we didn't know was whether he could throw the routes over the middle OR if he could throw it back shoulder on the sideline. With his accuracy on the fade, being able to throw either one of those passes would make him pretty much unstoppable. One would open up the entire field and the other would make every deep route an option route basically doubling the number of receivers in patterns for the defense. In the spring, he didn't demonstrate that he could do either, ironically the only QB who did was Baker Mayfield who threw 3-4 back shoulder throws for some big gains. Another poster said one of the younger kids was nailing the slant, but I haven't went back to look to see.

The problem is that it is really hard to stop a QB who can only throw over the middle (see Bradford, Sam). It is also really hard to stop a QB who can spray it all over the field (see White, Jason). It is fairly easy to stop someone who can throw only on the sidelines UNLESS you can add the back shoulder throw. And that is where we are, a QB who might add that throw next year, but for this year just doesn't get it.

[SoonerPride]

I could've sworn Knight played great against Kansas State last year.

Guess not.

All you geniuses have it figured out.

[Tear Down This Wall]

To me, Trevor was more of a threat when he was coming off the bench and opposing defenses didn't know what to expect. They knew he'd be more of a threat to run that Bell. Although Bell had proven he could run, the 2013 offense certainly wasn't geared to take advantage of that.

Now, Trevor is the man starting. Opponents know there is no one to fear behind him. They see his release isn't quick. To compound problems, they see that no one other than Shepherd has developed into a consistent receiving threat.

And, I think maybe, as you mentioned before, the "NFL-sized" offensive line is just that, "NFL-sized" but not necessarily "NFL talented." Granted TCU's Patterson and Texas' Strong are about the best in the business when it comes to preparing defenses, and we played them back-to-back.

You just kind of hope a fire gets lit under someone's as*s for the second half of the season to remedy what looks like a faltering offense. It could be anyone - Knight, receivers not named Shepherd, the "NFL-sized" linemen.

K-State will be K-State this weekend. Nothing mysterious: the will run the ball they will sell out to stop the run...and, Grandpa Snyder's bag of tricks.

It'll be interesting to see whether we can get in a groove offensively. A four quarter slugfest with Grandpa Synder's stubborn set, I fear, wouldn't be a great scenario for the fragile Knight. I think we need to jump on them early, like the 2001 game. Jump on them enough to stay in front in what will be a an old style Big 8 barefist battle or powers.

[BoulderSooner79]

It is fairly easy to stop someone who can throw only on the sidelines UNLESS you can add the back shoulder throw.

Okay, now you've hit on one I don't understand. The back shoulder throw is a staple in the NFL, but I also see it used extensively in many CFB passing attacks. I don't recall OU ever using it much. I don't see any attempts at using it with TK that we could claim were just inaccurate. Now you say that Mayfield showed a few of those in the Spring game? Was it in the game plan or did he just bring it with him from Tech and ad-lib? With defenses going to press coverage on us and daring us to pass, it screams out for at least trying this.

[SoonerorLater]

And that is where we are, a QB who might add that throw next year, but for this year just doesn't get it.

Well maybe but is that a very real possibility? TK has started what, about 10 games now? After 10 starts I can't think of any QB we have ever had that the perception of them has changed dramatically after we have had the benefit of seeing them for 10 starts, both good, bad and in-between.

[dwarthog]

What in the hell are you talking about? We spend thousands of dollars every season as season ticket holders supporting this team and traveling to see them play. What I hate is misuse of the personnel.

What I also hate is being so stuck to one player, like Trevor Knight. It never makes sense to me that a school like ours only has one guy ready to go at quarterback. You can throw any like school into the conversation as well - Texas, Alabama, Michigan, USC. It never makes sense to me that you don't have back-ups you can go to if the number one guy isn't getting it done.

We get - and Texas gets, and Alabama gets, and USC gets, etc. - whomever we want in recruiting. So, there is no reason - other than multiple injuries - to be stuck with just relying on one guy, who isn't getting it done well.

When Jason White was injured, Nate Hybl was there and stepped in, getting two bowl wins, and a conference title. Landry Jones stepped in fro Sam Bradford, and although he didn't win a conference title that year, he did help snap of streak of losing bowl games.

It's irritating to watch Knight. He doesn't have a quick release. If he has to be in the run game - as with TCU - we see he gets gimpy. And, it wasn't the first time he was injured running. There were times last year as well. He's not like Nate Hybl, whom you could hit with a truck and he'd get up.

Plus, there was the cramping issue when he runs, the baloney we were given after putrid TCU beat us. What the hell good is a "running quarterback" who can't take hits and cramps up if it's more than 70 degrees outside and he has to run the ball more than five or six times?

We also had Kendall Thompson at QB before he decided he didn't like how things panned out and so he transferred. I'm sure the other programs run into the same kind of deals with their QB's as well.

Kid's don't appear to be willing to gamble on waiting for their "turn" and instead go find somewhere else to play if they feel like they should or could be starting somewhere.

[Pride1Mom]

What I saw Saturday was a win. The reason we love college footall, is how unpredictable it is. Texas ALWAYS has the talent, it has been the coaches that either not have them in condition or work ethic. Looks like Strong is cleaning house.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Well maybe but is that a very real possibility? TK has started what, about 10 games now? After 10 starts I can't think of any QB we have ever had that the perception of them has changed dramatically after we have had the benefit of seeing them for 10 starts, both good, bad and in-between.

There are 2 things that QBs add every year they start -> More reads and more higher level throws. They typically start out being able to hit 1 read and 1 high level throw and finish out with 2-3 reads and 2 high level throws.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Here is the throw from Mayfield that is classic back shoulder

http://i.imgur.com/AVZiOoP.gif

[BoulderSooner79]

Here is the throw from Mayfield that is classic back shoulder



I see that, but my question was do our coaches teach this technique? Or was Mayfield just doing what he learned at Tech and took advantage of a DB with his back turned? I see Tech QBs do this all the time, but I don't recall LJ using it much. With the PI rules called the way they are today, seems silly not to take advantage.

[Soonerwake]

I think we start seeing some different receivers get some PT opposite Sterling. Stoops will never throw a player out there for bad play, but when asked about the possibility of trying some different guys out there, he was quick to say "yes". Have a feeling that Quick, Smallwood, and maybe Todd will see the field this Saturday.

I know it's been mentioned a million times, but I like what I saw from Bell across the middle. Finding the open spot, has the height to be a big target, has soft hands...

[EatLeadCommie]

I don't get how people don't understand this after 6 games.

I'm pretty much resigned to that at this point. It's obvious he isn't going to run with the ball. But that leads me to 2 questions...

1- Why even make it look like a zone read then?
2- Why aren't there any zone read plays in the repertoire?

Bob Stoops needs to look around. The mobile QB is a part of today's game. I don't see any other teams taking great pains to weaken their QB by taking away his legs. Manziel ran. Vince Young ran. Tim Tebow ran. Nick Marshall runs. Marcus Mariota runs. Dak Prescott runs. Good god, man, even Bryce Petty runs sometimes. But no, we make our QBs stand in the pocket and run the same pass plays we have run for years with receivers that aren't up to par compared to previous years. It is mind boggling. We need to use what we have. If Trevor gets hurt, he gets hurt. I can live with that. I can't live with playing like we're scared that our QB is going to get hurt.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I see that, but my question was do our coaches teach this technique? Or was Mayfield just doing what he learned at Tech and took advantage of a DB with his back turned? I see Tech QBs do this all the time, but I don't recall LJ using it much. With the PI rules called the way they are today, seems silly not to take advantage.

Why do you think I was so excited when I saw in the spring. At this point, I'm inclined to think we don't teach it and he brought it with him from TTech.

[BoulderSooner79]

Why do you think I was so excited when I saw in the spring. At this point, I'm inclined to think we don't teach it and he brought it with him from TTech.

Then that's a coaching problem split between the QB and WR position coaches. Heck, I bet there are some HS teams even doing this now days. We owe our BCS title slot in '08 to this play - the one to Crabtree to beat the horns.

[Eielson]

Why do you think I was so excited when I saw in the spring. At this point, I'm inclined to think we don't teach it and he brought it with him from TTech.

You were excited about the throw, or you are excited about Mayfield in general? He may have improved, but I don't remember the last time a Tech QB looked so poor in conference play.

[Soonerwake]

I'm pretty much resigned to that at this point. It's obvious he isn't going to run with the ball. But that leads me to 2 questions...

1- Why even make it look like a zone read then?
2- Why aren't there any zone read plays in the repertoire?

Bob Stoops needs to look around. The mobile QB is a part of today's game. I don't see any other teams taking great pains to weaken their QB by taking away his legs. Manziel ran. Vince Young ran. Tim Tebow ran. Nick Marshall runs. Marcus Mariota runs. Dak Prescott runs. Good god, man, even Bryce Petty runs sometimes. But no, we make our QBs stand in the pocket and run the same pass plays we have run for years with receivers that aren't up to par compared to previous years. It is mind boggling. We need to use what we have. If Trevor gets hurt, he gets hurt. I can live with that. I can't live with playing like we're scared that our QB is going to get hurt.

Which is funny cuz Stoops stated in his presser today that in recruiting he's looking for QBs with the ability to do both, run and pass.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You were excited about the throw, or you are excited about Mayfield in general? He may have improved, but I don't remember the last time a Tech QB looked so poor in conference play.

The throw. TTech employs 2 types of routes that are incredibly hard for defenses to defend - the option route and the back shoulder throw. Of the 2, the back shoulder is 10x harder to defend because you basically have to bracket every receiver who runs a vertical.

[8timechamps]

I think we start seeing some different receivers get some PT opposite Sterling. Stoops will never throw a player out there for bad play, but when asked about the possibility of trying some different guys out there, he was quick to say "yes". Have a feeling that Quick, Smallwood, and maybe Todd will see the field this Saturday.

I know it's been mentioned a million times, but I like what I saw from Bell across the middle. Finding the open spot, has the height to be a big target, has soft hands...

Quick was actually in a fair amount on Saturday. He also saw a few plays against TCU, so the coaches must be feeling more comfortable with him in the offense. So, on Saturday we saw:

Shepard
Neal
Bell
McNamara
Flowers
Young
Quick
Smallwood
Ripkowski
Ross
Perine

Those guys all ran at least one route in the passing game. If you take out the TEs/FBs/RBs, that's 5 different receivers. I'm not sure the problem is with getting new guys involved in the passing game. I think it's with execution in general. Knight went 12-20 Saturday, and there were 3 passes that weren't caught that should have been. If he would have gone 15-20, then I don't think anyone could question his ability (in the passing game).

The bottom line is we need the guys that are in to play better. Our O-line didn't do very good Saturday (and Darlington had one of the worst games he's had as a Sooner). The good news is that the players realize the issues. They just have to be better all the way around.