What does Trevor offer that none of the other QB's can do?

[achiro]

2nd to last in completion rate in the big 12 just above Kansas(that was last week so it may be worse now)
Can the other qb's not hand off to Perine on First down then throw a bad pass off the mark on second and third downs?
Seems to me that there has to be someone that can throw an accurate ball, the rest of the stuff should be cakewalk for any qb. If Knights upside is his ability to run and you don't use that ability at all in your play calling, what's the point? I'd take slow if they can throw an accurate 5 yard pass.

[Blue]

Sho nuff.

[EatLeadCommie]

His legs, which we don't utilize.

[Therealsouthsider]

...I'm watching TCU and Baylors QBs and I'm jealous

ss

[Eielson]

12/20 for 129 yards and 1 TD sounds a whole lot better than 12/26 for 133 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 interceptions.

[Eielson]

...I'm watching TCU and Baylors QBs and I'm jealous

ss

Bryce Petty? He was even worse against Texas.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400547865

[FaninAma]

I think the kid is hurt. He's never been Sam Bradford but he looked a lot sharper in the first 3 games. His mechanics seemed to have regressed.

[achiro]

12/20 for 129 yards and 1 TD sounds a whole lot better than 12/26 for 133 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 interceptions.

Who's stats are those?

[PhiDeltBeers]

Who's stats are those?

Probably Blake Bell last year against Texas.

[Eielson]

Probably Blake Bell last year against Texas.

Yes.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Realistically speaking, he should have been 15/20 for about 200. When receivers drop perfectly thrown balls, there isn't much you can do. I'm also not exactly sure how you can blame a QB for a WR running a 4 yard route when you need 5 yards for a 1st down.

[achiro]

not sure what that has to do with my post then?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Anyway, I saw some nice things from the coaching staff today on trying to make the middle of the field a threat. Sitting Bell in between the linebackers and safeties was a nice wrinkle that can be developed some more. I just wish he had the foot speed to go up the seam.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

not sure what that has to do with my post then?

Because you said he "throws bad passes on 2nd and 3rd down". Knight threw the ball pretty well today, but he is taking heat for things he can't control.

[manateepower]

Trevor has certainly regressed. So has Landry, and Blake throughout their careers as starting QB.

The common denominator is Josh Huepel. All three QB's are way too talented to have performed as poorly as they have.

Then you see Sumlin make undersized Johny Manziel and upstart Kenny Hill look like world beaters, and you are reminded that coaching matters, and our coaching on the offensive side of the ball outside of Cale Gundy is miserable.

[cherokeebrewer]

Knight threw the ball pretty well today, but he is taking heat for things he can't control.

Yep, Shepard even dropped one right in his stomach, which is unusual. I like K. J. Young's upside but he seemed to be wearing lead gloves today. But, great to have the win in the books forever...

[aero]

...I'm watching TCU and Baylors QBs and I'm jealous

ss

I switch channels alot and almost every other team I see, winning or losing, makes me jealous of their qb. Look, TK is a great kid but we're not going to win a NC with him. I felt the same with LJ. I'm grateful he's not a thug and doing stupid stuff off the field. There's not a lot you can say bad about him but he's just not a great qb. Maybe average. The team has other problems including offensive playcalling (and it's REALLY offensive) but the qb spot right now is killing this team. I know his stats were much better and it was good to see him throw it away as opposed to taking sacks but he's still missing open receivers, his timing and accuracy is off. We're stuck with him now so I suppose we just ride him out the rest of the year. It just seems like its a bad dream all over again. A couple more years of knowing what we're in store for. We've got some good players on both sides of the ball but it's going to be difficult overcoming that one position. Oh well, Boomer!

[aurorasooner]

Because you said he "throws bad passes on 2nd and 3rd down". Knight threw the ball pretty well today, but he is taking heat for things he can't control.Agree, I think if you put Peyton Manning, A Luck, or Sammy in today's (or last week's) game-plan and especially with only 1 of 3 WRs showing up, they would look pedestrian (much less our BU QBs).
I thought like so many Sooner fans, that after the Sugar Bowl impressive game-plan, we would build on it, and not regress to more of the same predictable game planning. But it is what it is.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Agree, I think if you put Peyton Manning, A Luck, or Sammy in today's (or last week's) game-plan and especially with only 1 of 3 WRs showing up, they would look pedestrian (much less our BU QBs).
I thought like so many Sooner fans, that after the Sugar Bowl impressive game-plan, we would build on it, and not regress to more of the same predictable game planning. But it is what it is.

You keep harping on the game planning, but what on earth do you do? Seriously, go to a one WR jumbo set? If you don't have the johnies and the joes, the x's and the o's aren't going to matter.

[achiro]

Because you said he "throws bad passes on 2nd and 3rd down". Knight threw the ball pretty well today, but he is taking heat for things he can't control.
One of two things here. Either the coaching staff is completely stupid and have no idea what they are doing or they are playing calls based on the lack of confidence in what the qb can do. With the d of the last two opponents stacking the line and daring us to throw and the majority of first downs being called a handoff to perine I'm thinking it's the second. Look, you like to watch tape, yes there were a couple of dropped passes today, but go watch him throw, the receivers have to stop their routes to turn and catch the ball a bunch. one was in the dirt on a 4 yard pass, another was behind the receiver on a 3rd down play that would have easily been a first down if he didn't have to stop to catch it. Both of Bells receptions required him to jump and reach and he's not a short guy. Not to mention the throw into the stands that was meant for an open receiver running down the sideline. Even one of the coach's put his arms out wide in a WTF posture.
54% for the season
under 16% on third down
I don't know how you can pretty that up???

[achiro]

Oh and to be clear, JH is doing this team no favors at all!!!!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

One of two things here. Either the coaching staff is completely stupid and have no idea what they are doing or they are playing calls based on the lack of confidence in what the qb can do. With the d of the last two opponents stacking the line and daring us to throw and the majority of first downs being called a handoff to perine I'm thinking it's the second. Look, you like to watch tape, yes there were a couple of dropped passes today, but go watch him throw, the receivers have to stop their routes to turn and catch the ball a bunch. one was in the dirt on a 4 yard pass, another was behind the receiver on a 3rd down play that would have easily been a first down if he didn't have to stop to catch it. Both of Bells receptions required him to jump and reach and he's not a short guy. Not to mention the throw into the stands that was meant for an open receiver running down the sideline. Even one of the coach's put his arms out wide in a WTF posture.
54% for the season
under 16% on third down
I don't know how you can pretty that up???

1) receivers have to stop their routes a "bunch" - You can't put this into the bad category because sometimes this is a good thing. If you throw it so that a WR doesn't get leveled and drop the ball, then that is a win. Second, he has issues on 1 type of route (the slant). It wouldn't even be noticeable if that wasn't the main route in our route tree.

2) The ball in the dirt - okay, bad throw

3) behind the WR - Honestly, I thought that was his best throw of the day (well it might have been a bit too hot). He threw it to Sterling's back shoulder which if he catches it the defender can't make a play. He throws that one in front of him and the defender can knock it out.

4) The throws to Bell HAVE to be high. The problem is that Bell only has the footspeed to go 10-12 yards down field. In order to get it over the linebackers you'd have to take way too much speed off the throw if you get it lower as it would be in an arc. That would allow the safeties to come up and put a hit on Bell. I thought these were decent throws.

5) Missing an open receiver isn't the end of the world, everyone does it.

As for the confidence statement - are you sure the coaches don't have faith in Knight? Or might it be that they are not confident that the intended target would be Sterling? Remember if you send 3 guys into the route against 6 DBs, someone can be bracketed.

[EatLeadCommie]

Realistically speaking, he should have been 15/20 for about 200. When receivers drop perfectly thrown balls, there isn't much you can do. I'm also not exactly sure how you can blame a QB for a WR running a 4 yard route when you need 5 yards for a 1st down.

Does that count the 2 nice snags Bell made? Only good throw that I recall that was missed was the pass through Young's hands

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Does that count the 2 nice snags Bell made? Only good throw that I recall that was missed was the pass through Young's hands

As I said, that is a function of having to get it over the LBs and underneath the safeties given how shallow Bell ran the route

[achiro]

1. (slant)
OK so lets say that's the ONLY throw he can't seem to make. That should be enough to take a look at someone that can right? That is a throw that a college QB has to be able to make...PERIOD. Again, what is he doing that none of the guys behind him can't? Tell me it's his feet, fine then use his feet but of the things they are doing, what is he doing so much better than anyone else?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

1. (slant)
OK so lets say that's the ONLY throw he can't seem to make. That should be enough to take a look at someone that can right? That is a throw that a college QB has to be able to make...PERIOD. Again, what is he doing that none of the guys behind him can't? Tell me it's his feet, fine then use his feet but of the things they are doing, what is he doing so much better than anyone else?

1. I agree with you that if the QB can not throw the staple route in our offense then we need a different QB.
2. In the spring there was only one QB who COULD throw the slant - Baker Mayfield
3.

[BoulderSooner79]

There is that missing 3. again - the suspense is killing me :)

[Okie35]

1. I agree with you that if the QB can not throw the staple route in our offense then we need a different QB.
2. In the spring there was only one QB who COULD throw the slant - Baker Mayfield
3.

Mayfield can sling it. I think Trevor needs some type of fire lit or competition to wake up. Last year was Blake... And then Trevor wanted to step up. Also he has no confidence... In himself or in the receivers not named sterling

[aurorasooner]

You keep harping on the game planning, but what on earth do you do? Seriously, go to a one WR jumbo set? If you don't have the johnies and the joes, the x's and the o's aren't going to matter.When something ""ain't working you either change it, or go to the grave with it, (glad we changed some things up offensively in the Sugar Bowl)

1st, I get rid of most of this late audible communication and if Heupel can't get the play called in a decent amount time, go with the play called and just huddle up some of the time and run the play. It appears that defenses are just adjusting after these late calls are sent in. Sometimes I'd even give the appearance of an audible and go with the original play.
It seems we're not confusing the opponents D and only confusing TK and our especially our OL. (It would be interesting to have the info on % of these late audibles that are actually working and gaining positive yardage and also the % of missed blocks that our OL is missing with these late audibles vs the % of the blocks missed when the play is just called and run as such) "squirrels swimming and fish climbing" is an analogy someone used in a previous thread.

2nd. I'd get some of these younger taller WRs some game playing time in the 2 and 3 wr spots and actually throw it to them to see if they're gamers. Some may be Jimmys and Joes. It sure can't get any worse that it is now.

3rd, if that's not an acceptable option, I'd ditch this 3 WR set completely to a 2 WR set with 2 backs with some deception play designs, and motion one of them out , when we need a 3 WR set, and also use Bell some as the 2nd back.

4th if a play works, I wouldn't just ditch it in file 13 for the rest of the game, perhaps run it later to the other side.

5th with a downhill 7 or 8 in the box, I certainly wouldn't run some slow developing reverse (or double reverse, depending on how you look at it), perhaps a fake off it, but not the reverse, ever.

[soonerfan69]

The TT transfer has something but he can't play

[SoonerorLater]

You keep harping on the game planning, but what on earth do you do? Seriously, go to a one WR jumbo set? If you don't have the johnies and the joes, the x's and the o's aren't going to matter.

OK fair enough but where do does the ultimate blame lay in our failure to put a dynamic offense on the field?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

When something ""ain't working you either change it, or go to the grave with it, (glad we changed some things up offensively in the Sugar Bowl)

1st, I get rid of most of this late audible communication and if Heupel can't get the play called in a decent amount time, go with the play called and just huddle up some of the time and run the play. It appears that defenses are just adjusting after these late calls are sent in. Sometimes I'd even give the appearance of an audible and go with the original play.
It seems we're not confusing the opponents D and only confusing TK and our especially our OL. (It would be interesting to have the info on % of these late audibles that are actually working and gaining positive yardage and also the % of missed blocks that our OL is missing with these late audibles vs the % of the blocks missed when the play is just called and run as such) "squirrels swimming and fish climbing" is an analogy someone used in a previous thread.

2nd. I'd get some of these younger taller WRs some game playing time in the 2 and 3 wr spots and actually throw it to them to see if they're gamers. Some may be Jimmys and Joes. It sure can't get any worse that it is now.

3rd, if that's not an acceptable option, I'd ditch this 3 WR set completely to a 2 WR set with 2 backs with some deception play designs, and motion one of them out , when we need a 3 WR set, and also use Bell some as the 2nd back.

4th if a play works, I wouldn't just ditch it in file 13 for the rest of the game, perhaps run it later to the other side.

5th with a downhill 7 or 8 in the box, I certainly wouldn't run some slow developing reverse (or double reverse, depending on how you look at it), perhaps a fake off it, but not the reverse, ever.


1. I think this is just assumed by this point, but I'll never fault someone for saying it again ;)

2. Conjecture, we really could be that bad. Woods getting hurt early in the season was probably our biggest loss of the year

3. I like this. Put Ross into the Finch role. I'd be down with that.

4. This is kind of a double edge sword. We tried this today with the reverse and then the double reverse. I agree that Josh has some issues with calling plays based on his abilities instead of Trevors, but he also is guilty of trying to do this too much.

5. What you have to ask yourself is Why? Our problem offensively is that we really have nothing to make a defense honor the middle 1/3 of the field but the running game. Safeties are playing deep and wide on us to stop the fade routes and the linebackers are just slamming into the box. The reverse is a decent option for the linebacker problem as they get caught up in the wash. Basically the reverse that went for 30 was trying to do the same thing as the throws to Bell. Push the linebackers back.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

OK fair enough but where do does the ultimate blame lay in our failure to put a dynamic offense on the field?

Our weaknesses are:

1. QB
2. WR
3. OG
4. TE

So it lies with those coaches.

1. Josh has really only recruited one all big 12 QB at this point (since Bradford was Chuck Long convincing the staff) and that is the much beloved Landry Jones.
2. I always find it hard to fault a coach for graduating dynamic seniors and not having much in the cupboard, but our WR recruiting has sucked outside of transfers and jucos.
3. No idea what is going on here, we have JRs and SRs here
4. Not having a good TE here is just bad. Heck John Blake had good TEs.

[aurorasooner]

I think that Bob needs to put Cale in the quality control mode in between Heupel and the game, and if Heuple gets beyond a certain amount of acceptable time, then it falls on Cale to call the play. I know that's a chitty deal for Gundy, but Heupel becoming a K. Wilson any time soon "" ain't happening nor does it look like Bob has the stones to replace Heupel in the booth (with the son-in-law situation and all, and he's in a no-win situation now with both his coordinators. Can't say that I blame him for not rocking the boat with Heupel and jeopardizing his 5 mil salary)

If we're actually that bad in the talent dept at WR, then there isn't any other option that I can see but to completely ditch the 3 wr sets, at least for the remainder of the year.

And I do agree about the middle 1/3 of the field, especially the 1/3 directly behind the linebackers. We're just not getting any respect there.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think that Bob needs to put Cale in the quality control mode in between Heupel and the game, and if Heuple gets beyond a certain amount of acceptable time, then it falls on Cale to call the play. I know that's a chitty deal for Gundy, but Heupel becoming a K. Wilson any time soon "" ain't happening nor does it look like Bob has the stones to replace Heupel in the booth (with the son-in-law situation and all, and he's in a no-win situation now with both his coordinators. Can't say that I blame him for not rocking the boat with Heupel and jeopardizing his 5 mil salary)

If we're actually that bad in the talent dept at WR, then there isn't any other option that I can see but to completely ditch the 3 wr sets, at least for the remainder of the year.

And I do agree about the middle 1/3 of the field, especially the 1/3 directly behind the linebackers. We're just not getting any respect there.

You want the guy who subs our running backs based on "feel" to call plays? His substitution patterns are a big part of why we never get anything going in the run game.

[Eielson]

I remember when everybody acted like DGB wasn't good enough to make a difference for us in the NC hunt. It's only been a couple months, but it feels like ages ago now.

[achiro]

Several of the late audibles on first down ended up being a handoff to Perine over tackle for no gain. Explain that to me.

[aurorasooner]

You want the guy who subs our running backs based on "feel" to call plays? His substitution patterns are a big part of why we never get anything going in the run game. Heh, I just threw Cale into the equation because he was a former QB and with Norvells past OC history, I'm not sure it would be much better at choosing a play. I really don't GAS if it's the waterboy, but it's going to be a chitty thankless job, and somebody's got to step up and do it. Honestly, If I was Cale I'd want to stay as far away from this fiasco as I could.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I remember when everybody acted like DGB wasn't good enough to make a difference for us in the NC hunt. It's only been a couple months, but it feels like ages ago now.

Given that his specialty is going up for jump balls on the sidelines he probably would have been all we needed.

[SoonerorLater]

You want the guy who subs our running backs based on "feel" to call plays? His substitution patterns are a big part of why we never get anything going in the run game.

How can (or should) this be a problem? Don't these guys need to be on the same page with regard to substitutions? Shouldn't play calls be tailored to the personnel on the field to utilize their strengths?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Several of the late audibles on first down ended up being a handoff to Perine over tackle for no gain. Explain that to me.

Explain what part of it? What the initial call was? No idea. Why we failed to get any gain? well that we can do with gifs.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

How can (or should) this be a problem? Don't these guys need to be on the same page with regard to substitutions? Shouldn't play calls be tailored to the personnel on the field to utilize their strengths?

You would think, but in every single interview, Cale has said that he controls the substitution without input from any other coach.

1. You put in a player, the defense calls to the strengths of that player. The defense is going to have varying effectiveness against various players.
2. You'd think, but I think they are so invested in what they are doing that they don't really think about it. One of the weird things about coaching is that some people are totally oblivious to momentum.
3. We do. The problem isn't us calling to a player's strengths, it is whether the player's strengths vs the defense net us yards. That is where we got killed against TCU. When Ross came in, they knew EXACTLY what we were going to do and called D's to stop it.

[beached_sooner]

Is Cody Thomas still injured? Isn't he number two on the depth chart right now?

Can't he hand the ball off on first down and throw better passes on second and third?

[#8soon]

1. I agree with you that if the QB can not throw the staple route in our offense then we need a different QB.
2. In the spring there was only one QB who COULD throw the slant - Baker Mayfield
3.

Disagree. Watch the spring game film again. Cody Thomas's first throw his arm is hit by a D-lineman. He then threw the next 8 balls and hit the receivers perfectly in stride, back shoulder or between the #'s.

[Blue]

Is Cody Hanson still injured? Isn't he number two on the depth chart right now?

Can't he hand the ball off on first down and throw better passes on second and third?

He's behind Jake Fletcher and Patrick Sills....so...

[BoulderSooner79]

Our weaknesses are:

1. QB
2. WR
3. OG
4. TE

So it lies with those coaches.

1. Josh has really only recruited one all big 12 QB at this point (since Bradford was Chuck Long convincing the staff) and that is the much beloved Landry Jones.
2. I always find it hard to fault a coach for graduating dynamic seniors and not having much in the cupboard, but our WR recruiting has sucked outside of transfers and jucos.
3. No idea what is going on here, we have JRs and SRs here
4. Not having a good TE here is just bad. Heck John Blake had good TEs.

That's a long list that basically says we are not a good offensive team. It also implies it's not fixable anytime soon. While I don't completely agree with every point, the results on the field are not good. We have struggled against every P5 team we have played so far. Eventually, everyone will just stack the line against Perine and double Shepard and call it a day. We need contributions from many more players than that to win the next 6 games.

[Tear Down This Wall]

not sure what that has to do with my post then?

The only game that counts with Bell for the pro-Knight crowd is that 2013 Texas game. Forget the Notre Dame game and any other game he played in. Forget his legs helping him score 24 TDs in 2011 and 2012.

Because Bell played bad against Texas, Knight has a lifetime free pass for playing sh*tty.

[Tear Down This Wall]

He's behind Jake Fletcher and Patrick Sills....so...

Sills was 3-1 as a starter. Not a bad winning % for the QBs of that era.

[BoulderSooner79]

The only game that counts with Bell for the pro-Knight crowd is that 2013 Texas game. Forget the Notre Dame game and any other game he played in. Forget his legs helping him score 24 TDs in 2011 and 2012.

Because Bell played bad against Texas, Knight has a lifetime free pass for playing sh*tty.

Bell played sh*tty against TCU, UT and was doing the same against ISU when he got hurt. His Belldozer TDs in previous year are totally irrelevant to being a starter. I'm a big fan of Bell for being a big hearted Sooner, but he didn't appear to be headed towards a great QB career. Besides, he decided to be a TE and the only way to succeed is to be all in.

[Eielson]

Bell played sh*tty against TCU, UT and was doing the same against ISU when he got hurt.

Don't forget the Baylor game, either. That one might have been his worst.

[BoulderSooner79]

Don't forget the Baylor game, either. That one might have been his worst.

Yes, but he beat the Domers! Wait, isn't that the same as giving TK a pass because he beat Bama? I seem to remember our D gave us a 2 TD head start against ND. And the Domers gave us those quick outs all game that consistently put us in 2nd and 3. Kudos to Bell for hitting them and the WRs for catching them, but TCU and UT took those away the following 2 games and Bell was lost. I actually give more credit to Bell for coming in and saving the game in the 2nd half against OSU than the Domer game. That was a great performance under duress.