Knight/Read Option

[ObiKaTony]

At one point in this season we were 3-19 on the 3rd down conversions. Knight had ZERO yards rushing. If we are to run the table they are going to have I let him run a bit. Lanes are wide open, and this is a major part of his skill set. As of now Landry could run this style offense which is counter productive, and will at some point bite us...also, someone needs to tell heuple we do have a te, he is usually open and has great hands...

[SoonerPride]

Anyone who doesn't know how to spell our offensive coordinator's name probably shouldn't be trying to offer him advice.

[cherokeebrewer]

And would someone please inform Bob Stoops that our offense is "counter productive"...

[BoulderSooner79]

You tell 'em ObiKaTony, and take it straight to Bob. We'll back you up.

[ObiKaTony]

You tell 'em ObiKaTony, and take it straight to Bob. We'll back you up.

Love the sarcasm. Interesting you guys don't keep up with the news I suppose. He was asked about his 3rd down troubles (they were 3-19 at one point and were obviously struggling, I don't how anyone would think that is relative to offensive efficiencies) and he mentioned the read option.

Tricket had more rushing yards than knight in the wv game, now I wouldn't have taken that bet...

[ObiKaTony]

Anyone who doesn't know how to spell our offensive coordinator's name probably shouldn't be trying to offer him advice.

Anyone commenting on grammar when most are using iPhones these days shouldn't give advice what is pertinent to an argument-ever...

[ObiKaTony]

I feel like we aren't using knights talents as well as we should. I understand the injury issue, but a clear lane is a clear lane. He is just as apt to get hurt in the pocket rather than a free lane...it's going to catch up with us, and damn near did @wv.

We don't have the wr from last year and we don't/haven't but CAN use the te. Hope things change a bit...at some point he is going to have to run.

[BoulderSooner79]

Love the sarcasm. Interesting you guys don't keep up with the news I suppose. He was asked about his 3rd down troubles (they were 3-19 at one point and were obviously struggling, I don't how anyone would think that is relative to offensive efficiencies) and he mentioned the read option.

Tricket had more rushing yards than knight in the wv game, now I wouldn't have taken that bet...

And interesting you assume folks haven't kept up with a subject that has been beaten to death. It's obvious the TK has been told explicitly not to run up to this point in the season. I suspect that will change as the situation forces it to, but only time will tell. Given Stoops history, my guess is that Cody Thomas is still dinged up to the point they don't want him to play at all, although he did come in at the very end of the Tulsa game. Given the strength of the TCU defense, I wouldn't be surprised if TK must run next week and it doesn't need to be from the zone read.

[ObiKaTony]

And interesting you assume folks haven't kept up with a subject that has been beaten to death. It's obvious the TK has been told explicitly not to run up to this point in the season. I suspect that will change as the situation forces it to, but only time will tell. Given Stoops history, my guess is that Cody Thomas is still dinged up to the point they don't want him to play at all, although he did come in at the very end of the Tulsa game. Given the strength of the TCU defense, I wouldn't be surprised if TK must run next week and it doesn't need to be from the zone read.

Why wouldn't it be from the zone read?

My point is that his skill set is set up perfectly for the read. First he can throw an accurate ball on the run, he can run, he isn't consistent from the pocket, and he has weapons all around him that are made more accessible by keeping the lb's cb's honest. Now, this only works if the option is there for TK to run, and it appears that he is being told to handoff the ball (hence the 3-19) let TK be the qb he is, and it aint Landry Jones, and that is the offense we are currently running.

[ObiKaTony]

have to say...the loons that take the "high road" and think that fans like me should "take it up with bob" were the same folks that used the same language when countless FANS on this page and other sites screamed for another DC and said Mike Stoops would be the difference maker. Um Yeah :)

[Since71ASooner4Life]

At first I was disappointed we weren't seeing Knight run, but have since changed my mind. None of us know what plays are being practiced and are in the arsenal waiting to be used at the appropriate time. If we can keep winning convincingly without reminding others what Knight is capable of, then I think we are better off for it. Keep him healthy, and if we make it to January games use the run when it matters, and when defenses have prepared for things other than Knight running.

[BoulderSooner79]

have to say...the loons that take the "high road" and think that fans like me should "take it up with bob" were the same folks that used the same language when countless FANS on this page and other sites screamed for another DC and said Mike Stoops would be the difference maker. Um Yeah :)

Do you really believe it was fan pressure that convinced Bob to get rid of BV? My money is on the years of results combined with Mike becoming available. But there is nothing wrong with FANS voicing their opinion - have at it. My sarcasm stems from what I said - this topic has been beat to death and it is obvious it has been a deliberate decision by Stoops. It is not an oversight. He gets asked about it at his pressers and gives his annoyed response typical of when he has dug in his heels and doesn't want to talk about it.

I think you would agree we haven't needed TK to run. There was no need at all in the first 3 games. We didn't take control of the WVU game until mid-3rd quarter and even later before it was reflected on the scoreboard. This shows how determined the coaches are about TK not running. Had the game continued to be close into the 4th would we have opened things up? I suspect so, but there is no way to know. The goal is to win games, not to have good stats on 3rd down conversations and Bob has said that keeping TK healthy is the key to winning games down the road, so he doesn't care if it is pretty. So unless we get down by more than 1 score early or the game is undecided until very late, I suspect you will remain frustrated.

[ObiKaTony]

Do you really believe it was fan pressure that convinced Bob to get rid of BV? My money is on the years of results combined with Mike becoming available. But there is nothing wrong with FANS voicing their opinion - have at it. My sarcasm stems from what I said - this topic has been beat to death and it is obvious it has been a deliberate decision by Stoops. It is not an oversight. He gets asked about it at his pressers and gives his annoyed response typical of when he has dug in his heels and doesn't want to talk about it.

I think you would agree we haven't needed TK to run. There was no need at all in the first 3 games. We didn't take control of the WVU game until mid-3rd quarter and even later before it was reflected on the scoreboard. This shows how determined the coaches are about TK not running. Had the game continued to be close into the 4th would we have opened things up? I suspect so, but there is no way to know. The goal is to win games, not to have good stats on 3rd down conversations and Bob has said that keeping TK healthy is the key to winning games down the road, so he doesn't care if it is pretty. So unless we get down by more than 1 score early or the game is undecided until very late, I suspect you will remain frustrated.


Do you honestly believe that public pressure doesn't have any effect on a public figure? (which Bob is) Of course public pressure played a role, now how much only Bob Stoops sub conscience knows. I and others on this board were tarred and feathered for pointing out the obvious (our defense wasn't as good as years past) The topic of the read option is a live issue when it is relevant and it will cont to be relevant when our 3rd down conversion rate isn't good-didn't say it was bad...

I would also disagree that we haven't needed him to run; as we have been very fortunate. Without a 100 yard k/o return by Ross we are down by 7 in the west va game with our 3rd down conversion rate getting worse. Once again, Trickett (check spelling don't want my entire argument to unravel over a spelling error on my iPhone) had more rushing yards, that is ridiculous, and I believe it puts more pressure knight be something he is not which will effect him in the season. The read option is damn near impossible to stop (in college) with the right personnel (see vince young, cam newton, tebow, McCoy) We have that type personnel on this team yet were not using it. Practice makes perfect, and those that think we can just pick it up with great precision in a live game needs a reality check.

My concern is that we are not going to run the read option, and if that is the case we will NOT win a national title, period. Hope I'm wrong...

[SoonerMarkVA]

At one point in this season we were 3-19 on the 3rd down conversions. Knight had ZERO yards rushing. If we are to run the table they are going to have I let him run a bit. Lanes are wide open, and this is a major part of his skill set. As of now Landry could run this style offense which is counter productive, and will at some point bite us...also, someone needs to tell heuple we do have a te, he is usually open and has great hands...

Yeah, basically agree. Although, my hope is, they're sitting on those weapons (both Knight's feet and Bell) until we get deeper into the season. But bottom line is, if we want to go the distance this year, it's going to take more involvement from the TE and Knight loosening up the defense with his run threat. So far, we've won handily without needing either, but the best is yet to come that we'll face.

[BoulderSooner79]

I would also disagree that we haven't needed him to run;

We're 4-0 with all double digit wins. "Need" is in the eye of the beholder. And Ross did run that kick back and we were winning in the trenches on both O and D in the second half, so we were in control before the scoreboard reflected it. Good teams don't panic if they get down by a score.

[ObiKaTony]

We're 4-0 with all double digit wins. "Need" is in the eye of the beholder. And Ross did run that kick back and we were winning in the trenches on both O and D in the second half, so we were in control before the scoreboard reflected it. Good teams don't panic if they get down by a score.

Good offenses don't go 3-19 on 3rd down conversions spanning over 2 games. We are 4-0 and our TEAM has played well. If there is one area of concern it is our offense, specifically our consistency. We are 4-0 and have played ZERO top 25 teams. Yes, we have quality wins, but where we want to go we need much more from our offense. This type of need should be beholden by any one with any kind of football I.Q.

Now, will we see the read option? Hell, I don't know. We refused to give Knight the reigns when the W wasn't a sure thing which concerns me when we play Baylor, and it concerns me we wouldn't have practiced it if we play Bama/Oregon/FSU/A&M...

[ouwasp]

Was Knight injury-prone in high school? Considering how easily he was hurt last yr vs the pokes, I wonder.

Anyhow, I figure the next 3 games will see all the stops pulled out for the Sooner O, with a couple of nuggets saved for Baylor. In the meantime, the Sooner Nation holds its breath hoping another negative October Surprise doesn't await us in the Cotton Bowl.

[Eielson]

Let's just be honest. If we lost to WVU, we had bigger issues than the read option.

Also, I'm not sure how much the read option would have helped against WVU. Seriously. We had two RB's averaging over 7 ypc (over 300 yards total), and we scored 45 points. Our issues were defensive. I'm starting to feel like this year's scapegoat is going to be the read option no matter what. I guess that's better than blaming Landry for everything.

[ObiKaTony]

Let's just be honest. If we lost to WVU, we had bigger issues than the read option.

Also, I'm not sure how much the read option would have helped against WVU. Seriously. We had two RB's averaging over 7 ypc (over 300 yards total), and we scored 45 points. Our issues were defensive. I'm starting to feel like this year's scapegoat is going to be the read option no matter what. I guess that's better than blaming Landry for everything.


Did you watch Tenn or the WV game? The Lanes were wide open for TK to run so it would have helped pad that 3-19 3rd down ratio. If you don't think Landry had a tangible reason why we lost games against good defenses then I suppose you didn't watch him play. He was as mobile in the pocket as my pet rock, and his feet were happier than a jihadist with a knife in his SENIOR year.

You are hearing so much about the read option because Knights skill set is set up like Colt Mccoys' and we are expecting to make the throws Landry would make in an offense not suited for his skill set. Hell yes it's a scape goat when a guy who can run damn good is being told "don't run" it's obvious, and it needs to change

[Eielson]

Did you watch Tenn or the WV game? The Lanes were wide open for TK to run so it would have helped pad that 3-19 3rd down ratio. If you don't think Landry had a tangible reason why we lost games against good defenses then I suppose you didn't watch him play. He was as mobile in the pocket as my pet rock, and his feet were happier than a jihadist with a knife in his SENIOR year.

You are hearing so much about the read option because Knights skill set is set up like Colt Mccoys' and we are expecting to make the throws Landry would make in an offense not suited for his skill set. Hell yes it's a scape goat when a guy who can run damn good is being told "don't run" it's obvious, and it needs to change

Do you win games with 3rd down conversion rates? I've always felt that scoring points was more important, and we're top 10 in the country for that statistic. We've also done that without having to endanger our QB. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

[EatLeadCommie]

Seems to me like we always say we are keeping it vanilla until the TX game, and about 2/3 of the time the TX game ends up being vanilla playcalling to, which remains until the end of the year.

I understand the desire to keep him healthy, but I also understand the importance of gametime experience reading and running the zone read. I can't think that TK is so bad at the zone read that he is just handing it off every time. I think he is being instructed to. Still, I'd like to see him use his legs. Hell, Bryce Petty used his a couple times last night for big gains. We will definitely need to use TK's scrambling ability against Baylor, if not sooner. He is too rusty throwing the ball for us to win it all on that alone.

Maybe if those knobs could give us a straight answer on Baker Mayfield, we could actually unleash TK a bit.

[8timechamps]

We're 4 games into the season, do you really believe we've seen every play in the offensive play book? We've probably not even seen half.

Also, here's the offensive production in our first four games:



Opponent
Rushing Offense
Passing Offense
Total Offense
Points Scored


La Tech
183
253
436
48


Tulsa
261
319
580
52


Tennessee
146
308
454
34


West Virginia
301
209
510
45


Averages
222.8
272.3
495
44.8




I don't really get the folks clamoring for Knight to run the ball. Our backs have been very productive, as you can see. Why take the ball out of the hands of the players that practice and prepare all week to carry it, just to let Knight run the ball?! There's also the fact that we don't have a proven, experienced back-up should something happen to TK. Why risk it? It makes no sense at all.

Watching Knight run the ball is fun, and he's pretty good at it, but wanting him to do it just because you want to see it is nuts.

[SoonerMarkVA]

I think Knight really just needs to reel off a few keepers, particularly if they go for big gains, to keep the defense honest. I was happy with him having just that one dagger of a run against Tulsa because that plants it in the defense's minds. Honestly, watching WVU, it looked like they were as concerned about TK running as Landry Jones. Granted, we gashed them, but I think 2-3 keepers are all that's necessary to set up that hesitation that's going to really open up things for our backs, even more.

I'd also like to roll Knight out more as he seems to be almost laser sharp when he's on the move. It's his natural comfort zone. I experience a similar thing with jump shots, where if I can square up and shoot, I'm much less reliable than if I take a shot off the dribble. Makes no sense, but I can completely understand how Knight might be similar between setting up and on the move.

[BoulderSooner79]

Good offenses don't go 3-19 on 3rd down conversions spanning over 2 games. We are 4-0 and our TEAM has played well. If there is one area of concern it is our offense, specifically our consistency. We are 4-0 and have played ZERO top 25 teams. Yes, we have quality wins, but where we want to go we need much more from our offense. This type of need should be beholden by any one with any kind of football I.Q.

Now, will we see the read option? Hell, I don't know. We refused to give Knight the reigns when the W wasn't a sure thing which concerns me when we play Baylor, and it concerns me we wouldn't have practiced it if we play Bama/Oregon/FSU/A&M...

Yes our TEAM has played well and it's a TEAM sport and we're 4-0 against the teams on our schedule. And both the Vols and WVU could play with many top 25 teams, so those poll numbers are not that important. And we need our passing game to improve in order to win the conference and compete in the playoffs. No one would argue that. Whether the zone read would help our passing game is just speculation on your part. It's clearly something that would make the offense more dangerous - for as long as TK stays healthy. My only point was that the decision is intentional and not some coaching oversight. And Stoops has been questioned on it repeatedly and is standing pat on the issue so far. I totally agree with you that we will require TK to make some plays with his legs in order to win some tough contest(s) down the road - it just hasn't happened yet. And I don't think Stoops is going to tell us what situation is going to trigger him to change modes; we just have to watch and see.

[SoonerorLater]

I'm just going to go ahead and defer to Bob Stoops on these tactical issues but I'm here for him if he needs it.

[ashley]

He will run when we need him. How many don't understand that? I am amazed.

[cherokeebrewer]

He will run when we need him. How many don't understand that? I am amazed.

That's absolutely correct...

[hvhurricane]

BS will never have a running QB. He is way too scared that they will get hurt.

The reason this a concern, even though we are 4-0 against a group of horrible teams, is because we are so bad at third down efficiency. This isn't a new problem. We have had this problem ever since our OC got the play calling duties. It is almost like Chuck "Third and Long" is back. Our play calling on 1&2 downs has been poor for three years now.

[SoonerForLife92]

I understand not wanting Knight to get hurt but there were many times in the wvu game I was thinking to myself wow he could have kept that for 10+ yards and had plenty of time to slide. It keeps the defense honest and like others have stated simply using it 2 or 3 times a game can open up the lanes for the backs and open up play action even more.

I understand saving it for when we need it, however I want to see Knight get more in-game experience with it because while he is typically very good at reading, he has made some bad ones, very occasionally... but still

[cherokeebrewer]

we are 4-0 against a group of horrible teams.

Seems like Tennessee and West Virginia have pretty good teams, but yeah, we need to be much better on 3rd down conversions.

[BoulderSooner79]

we are 4-0 against a group of horrible teams

That is just incorrect. The Vols and WVU could be competitive with every team on our schedule other than Baylor and would beat some of them. Yes OUr team has areas for improvement, but everyone with a football IQ knew that going into the season. We are inexperienced at RB, WR, DB and yes - QB. Only the RBs have exceeded expectation. The DBs have met expectation and appear to be rapidly improving. From my point of view TK has met expectation unless if you expected a repeat of the Sugar Bowl every week. The big issue is the WR group (outside Shepard) which also makes TK look bad at times. But even there, both D. Neal and KJ Young's numbers are getting better, but progress is slow. I have no idea what is going on at TE.

I still trust we will continue to improve in all these areas as these players gain experience. This team is very good now and still has a ton of upside. We just need to continue to beat these "horrible" teams in the meantime.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Let me tell you something about the zone read...

...keep handing the ball to Perine. That'll keep us winning. And, that will keep us from having to have our quarterback put himself in harm's way by running a bunch.

If you can trample your opponents under foot with the run game, there's no need to trick up an offense too much. If you want to watch tricked up football, follow Texas Tech or Texas A&M and whichever the hell school is stupid enough to hire Mike Leach: Lots of tricked up yardage on offense, and zero championships to show for it.

[SoonerMarkVA]

The Vols and WVU could be competitive with every team on our schedule other than Baylor

I don't know about that. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with BU in Morgantown.

BU still hasn't played a decent team. We don't yet know what they're made of.

[oupride]

I feel like we aren't using knights talents as well as we should. I understand the injury issue, but a clear lane is a clear lane. He is just as apt to get hurt in the pocket rather than a free lane...it's going to catch up with us, and damn near did @wv.

We don't have the wr from last year and we don't/haven't but CAN use the te. Hope things change a bit...at some point he is going to have to run.

You're right Tony, we've all made the same observaton. Stoop's history has been not to show everything early in the season. Trust me, things will change.

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't know about that. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with BU in Morgantown.

BU still hasn't played a decent team. We don't yet know what they're made of.

Yes, I'm assuming BU is as good as their billing. They played as expected @ISU which can be a tough place to play. KSU barely escaped with a W there. WVU can be tough, but their QB and 2 WRs are the only players that really stood out. That's enough to put up points in modern football, but not enough to win a lot of games.

[PalmBeachSooner]

He will run when we need him. How many don't understand that? I am amazed.

Emphasis on 'We'.

[8timechamps]

Let me tell you something about the zone read...

...keep handing the ball to Perine. That'll keep us winning. And, that will keep us from having to have our quarterback put himself in harm's way by running a bunch.

If you can trample your opponents under foot with the run game, there's no need to trick up an offense too much. If you want to watch tricked up football, follow Texas Tech or Texas A&M and whichever the hell school is stupid enough to hire Mike Leach: Lots of tricked up yardage on offense, and zero championships to show for it.

You'd think everyone would understand your logic. It's not hard...we have plenty of production in the backfield, and we're 4-0, why use the QB run game? Yet, for some reason, there are a fair amount of folks that don't seem to understand.

[hawaii 5-0]

There will be times down the road when Knight will need to pull it back and keep it.

Until then, let him keep handing it off and save his health.

We know what Knight can do when he keeps it.

5-0

[BoulderSooner79]

My wish for TK is to see him use his legs more on passing plays to escape the pocket and extend plays. He seems to either lock onto Shepard or throw the ball away quickly if no one is open. A QB escaping containment can put tons of pressure on a secondary to cover for 5+ seconds. And if a mobile QB escapes containment when the defense is playing man coverage, he can often run for big chunks of yardage before the defense even reacts. And this can be done SAFELY as he can step out of bounds or slide before a defender even gets close.

[8timechamps]

My wish for TK is to see him use his legs more on passing plays to escape the pocket and extend plays. He seems to either lock onto Shepard or throw the ball away quickly if no one is open. A QB escaping containment can put tons of pressure on a secondary to cover for 5+ seconds. And if a mobile QB escapes containment when the defense is playing man coverage, he can often run for big chunks of yardage before the defense even reacts. And this can be done SAFELY as he can step out of bounds or slide before a defender even gets close.

I don't have an issue with that, and he's done some of that already this year...and I suspect will do more as the season progresses.

I don't think he locks on to Shepard, but I do think at times he decides where he's going with the ball before the snap (without progressing through his reads). That's got everything to do with inexperience, and he will get better as he continues to develop.

He also needs some help by way of receivers catching the ball. I was impressed that he went back to Neal right after the drop (against WVU), but Neal didn't help the situation by dropping it again. However, he went back to Neal a little later (I think the next drive), so he does have confidence in him, he just needs the guys around him to be a little more consistent.

[BoulderSooner79]

He also needs some help by way of receivers catching the ball. I was impressed that he went back to Neal right after the drop (against WVU), but Neal didn't help the situation by dropping it again. However, he went back to Neal a little later (I think the next drive), so he does have confidence in him, he just needs the guys around him to be a little more consistent.

Totally agree the biggest issue in the passing game is the receivers playing better. I don't think drops has been a big problem outside the Neal back-to-back drops in the last game. There will always be drops and it's just comes with throwing the ball. The bigger issue is creating separation and timing - the bread and butter of the passing game. Those should improve with experience or else our guys are just not that good. I think we've already seen improvement. I really wish one our young, big guys would improve enough to get onto the field. You can't teach being taller.

[SoonerForLife92]

You'd think everyone would understand your logic. It's not hard...we have plenty of production in the backfield, and we're 4-0, why use the QB run game? Yet, for some reason, there are a fair amount of folks that don't seem to understand.

And you guys don't seem to understand our runningbacks and o-line won't be able to be as productive every game as they have thus far. Plus with our young receviers it would be nice for Knight to run more while they are improving.

You usually know what you're talking about and I completely agree Knight should not run often. However you are all acting like the guy doesn't know how to slide. As was said he could run even 1-3 times a game off the read option and that would make the defense hesitate more. We will have to use it at some point and he needs to have more game experience with it in my opinion. Mostly my opinion is based on our receivers slowiy gaining improvement and until they are at the level they need to be, it would open up the offense to have Knight run at least just a couple times a game.

You are completely right we are 4-0 against some good teams thus far, but as i'm sure you would agree our defense has been the biggest factor in those games. We haven't needed it but like I said earlier there were times in the wvu he could have kept it for a big chunk of yards and had plenty of time to slide. Would have helped with our 3rd down conversions which is a bad stat (at this point in the season at least) no matter how many offensive yards we have.

Your point of view is the better one, but i'm surprised you seem to be implying the read option won't be important for this team at some point down the road.

[manateepower]

If you want to watch tricked up football, follow Texas Tech or Texas A&M and whichever the hell school is stupid enough to hire Mike Leach: Lots of tricked up yardage on offense, and zero championships to show for it.

This statement is LOL awful.

Mike Leach took over an offense in 1999 that had been God Awful over the last decade and make them an offensive Juggarnaut over night.

Then he goes to Texas Tech and they have the ten years of football they have ever had BY FAR. Including a run at the National Championship in 2008.

So we didn't win it all at Tech? You do realize they aren't exactly a powerhouse right?



An another note. I think pulling out rushing stats and win loss records to make your argument that Trevor Knight does not need to run more is a bit short sighted. As the season progresses and the competition gets tougher, we will need to find more ways to continue moving the ball against better defenses.

Poor, repetitive play calling has cost us more than a handful of games from 2007 on at least (when I really started focusing on football, it might have gone back further than that), and I am afraid that the hesitancy to use Knight as a runner might cost a game at some point.

[8timechamps]

And you guys don't seem to understand our runningbacks and o-line won't be able to be as productive every game as they have thus far. Plus with our young receviers it would be nice for Knight to run more while they are improving.

That's speculation. There's no way to know whether or not our backs can continue to be as productive. We have one of the best (and biggest) O-lines in the country, and a few very talented backs...I'd say there's a good chance we will continue to be productive.


You usually know what you're talking about and I completely agree Knight should not run often. However you are all acting like the guy doesn't know how to slide. As was said he could run even 1-3 times a game off the read option and that would make the defense hesitate more. We will have to use it at some point and he needs to have more game experience with it in my opinion. Mostly my opinion is based on our receivers slowiy gaining improvement and until they are at the level they need to be, it would open up the offense to have Knight run at least just a couple times a game.

You are completely right we are 4-0 against some good teams thus far, but as i'm sure you would agree our defense has been the biggest factor in those games. We haven't needed it but like I said earlier there were times in the wvu he could have kept it for a big chunk of yards and had plenty of time to slide. Would have helped with our 3rd down conversions which is a bad stat (at this point in the season at least) no matter how many offensive yards we have.

Your point of view is the better one, but i'm surprised you seem to be implying the read option won't be important for this team at some point down the road.

Let me clarify, Knight's running ability will absolutely be needed at some point this season, and for all the reasons you listed. There's not much point in having a dual threat QB if you never allow him to utilize half his skills.

My point (which wasn't specifically being addressed at you) is that to this point there's no reason to be upset that Knight hasn't run the ball. If we can get 200 yards a game from our backs, and keep separation on the scoreboard, then there's no reason for Knight to run, but we both know there will be times when that part of is game is needed.

I think we're on the same page, I know Knight will have to run, and you know that it hasn't been needed yet.

[cherokeebrewer]

When we need Trevor Knight to run, he will run. I'm fairly certain Bob Stoops understands that, not so sure about some of our fans...

[Eielson]

This statement is LOL awful.

Mike Leach took over an offense in 1999 that had been God Awful over the last decade and make them an offensive Juggarnaut over night.

Then he goes to Texas Tech and they have the ten years of football they have ever had BY FAR. Including a run at the National Championship in 2008.

Amen. Sumlin and Leach aren't Meyer and Saban, but they're two of the finer coaches in college football.

[BoulderSooner79]

When we need Trevor Knight to run, he will run. I'm fairly certain Bob Stoops understands that, not so sure about some of our fans...

^This exactly. Stoops has been straight forward with this issue which is not typical of a coach. He has stated he wants to protect TK in order to win a championship. He doesn't normally talk this way as he would usually use the "one game at a time" cliche. To be talking championship at this point in the season speaks volumes. I interpret that as saying he's willing to win a game by 2 touchdowns and protect TK instead of winning by 4 touchdowns by letting him run. There is risk both ways as a 2 score lead can evaporate with a couple of fluke plays, but an extended loss of TK would lose it all. He is choosing to take the former risk and trust the other parts of the team to back him up. But since the goal is a championship (and I don't think he means conference), he would certainly change modes if and when it comes to that.

I also think fans are being a little narrow in their thinking that the true zone read will cure all ills. Yes it looks wide open for TK to keep exactly because he isn't doing it. If he rips off a couple of big runs, the defense will adjust and the read to keep it wouldn't be there that often anyway. Yes, it would make the run game more dangerous, but a defense can stack the box against the run AND take away the QB option. There is no way around having to be effective in the passing game in order to be an elite team.

[SoonerorLater]

Just the threat of the QB keeper off the zone read can be as effective as the actual QB run. That's why they keep the zone read look on the designated hand-offs. I looked at the WV game and just the possibility kept the DE from crashing down. If we take one DL out of the play then our backs will most generally win the war.

[Tear Down This Wall]

You'd think everyone would understand your logic. It's not hard...we have plenty of production in the backfield, and we're 4-0, why use the QB run game? Yet, for some reason, there are a fair amount of folks that don't seem to understand.

They commit the cardinal sin of watching other, lesser football programs during our bye weeks, then coveting the offenses of said other, lesser programs. Last weekend, the chief smoke-blower on the tube happened to be the Texas version of Aggy.

This should be the main thrust of OU's game plan for the rest of the this season and the other two seasons Perine will play here before he turns pro:

(1) Hand the ball to Perine and watch him grind the opposing linemen, linebackers, and erstwhile safeties into the turf...those he isn't carrying on his back, anyway.
(2) Kick the extra point.

[mainline13]

Anyone commenting on grammar when most are using iPhones these days shouldn't give advice what is pertinent to an argument-ever...

Should we continue with "Anyone who owns a smart phone and doesn't know how to use it properly ...."?

Nah, let's not. It was a little bitty typo.

[manateepower]

They commit the cardinal sin of watching other, lesser football programs during our bye weeks, then coveting the offenses of said other, lesser programs. Last weekend, the chief smoke-blower on the tube happened to be the Texas version of Aggy.

This should be the main thrust of OU's game plan for the rest of the this season and the other two seasons Perine will play here before he turns pro:

(1) Hand the ball to Perine and watch him grind the opposing linemen, linebackers, and erstwhile safeties into the turf...those he isn't carrying on his back, anyway.
(2) Kick the extra point.

And you commit the cardinal sin by assuming that perine is going to rush for 200 plus yards every week based on one game and therefore there is no reason to expand outside of that.

[BoulderSooner79]

They commit the cardinal sin of watching other, lesser football programs during our bye weeks, then coveting the offenses of said other, lesser programs. Last weekend, the chief smoke-blower on the tube happened to be the Texas version of Aggy.

This should be the main thrust of OU's game plan for the rest of the this season and the other two seasons Perine will play here before he turns pro:

(1) Hand the ball to Perine and watch him grind the opposing linemen, linebackers, and erstwhile safeties into the turf...those he isn't carrying on his back, anyway.
(2) Kick the extra point.

There are defenses that can stop this if they overload against it. There is no defense that can stop everything that a balanced offense can throw at them.

[Sooner91ATL]

I don't think we are going to run for a lot of yards this week, I don't care if it's Sims, Peterson, or Owens in the backfield. So I sure hope TK is spot on with his passes, and the receivers are getting some separation. If I were Patterson I would put 8 in the box and dare us to throw successfully. We're likely to see a lot of 3rd and 8s this week.

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't think we are going to run for a lot of yards this week, I don't care if it's Sims, Peterson, or Owens in the backfield. So I sure hope TK is spot on with his passes, and the receivers are getting some separation. If I were Patterson I would put 8 in the box and dare us to throw successfully. We're likely to see a lot of 3rd and 8s this week.

Pretty much guaranteed. I would guess more a lot of 3rd and 5s than 3rd and 8s, but same idea. I wouldn't be surprised to see an old fashion defensive battle.

[8timechamps]

I don't think we are going to run for a lot of yards this week, I don't care if it's Sims, Peterson, or Owens in the backfield. So I sure hope TK is spot on with his passes, and the receivers are getting some separation. If I were Patterson I would put 8 in the box and dare us to throw successfully. We're likely to see a lot of 3rd and 8s this week.

I think the weakness of this TCU defense (not that it's huge) is their run defense. Last year, we gained 200+ yards against them (granted 75 of that came off of one run), and we are as good, if not better at every position in the run game this year. I don't know if we'll go for over 200 yards, but we should have our share of success.

Patterson will absolutely stack the box this week. Like Stoops said yesterday, the last 12 games we've played the defense has stacked the box, so it's nothing new.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I think the weakness of this TCU defense (not that it's huge) is their run defense. Last year, we gained 200+ yards against them (granted 75 of that came off of one run), and we are as good, if not better at every position in the run game this year. I don't know if we'll go for over 200 yards, but we should have our share of success.

Patterson will absolutely stack the box this week. Like Stoops said yesterday, the last 12 games we've played the defense has stacked the box, so it's nothing new.

TCU likes to stop the run and usually does a pretty good job at it...except against Oklahoma. They pack their linebackers in tight out of their 4-2-5 and do anything and everything to take away the inside run game. While this is largely effective, it can bite them and hard. Oklahoma has actually rushed for more yards than anyone else the past two seasons against TCU.

Oklahoma had 177 rushing yards in 2012 against TCU and then 203 rushing yards last season against TCU. In 2012, Williams ripped off a 66 yard TD run and last season, Clay had thati 76 yard TD run. It's tough to get past that TCU defensive front, but when you do, it's going to almost always go the distance.

I think TCU can be exposed by throwing to the tight-end position because of what they do with their linebackers. Minnesota is a terrible passing team (99 passing yards per game), but even they hit their tight-end 3 times including a TD for a score. I wouldn't be surprised if Bell gets more action in this game than any game prior and the same goes for Knight running the ball IF Oklahoma's offense isn't being overly productive in the 1st half. It will be more interesting this year since Oklahoma will be fielding a mobile QB, something they didn't have with Bell (solid straight-line runner, but no lateral mobility) or Jones.

As far as TCU's offense, they don't concern me in the least. Their skill positions are severely lacking and their ground game depends too much on Boykin who while a solid runner, is no game-braker with his legs.

[Sooner91ATL]

With two weeks to prepare, I am confident that we will scheme up TCUs defense to work to our strength. if we can get perimeter blocks and hit the corner quickly it can seal those LBs for some big lanes. Plus by quarter 4, our back rotation and big hits from Rip will wear those guys down. I still don't see us scoring a lot as I think TCU is well coached and talented on D. But who knows - if our o is clicking in all phases I think we can hang 50 on most anyone.

As to the topic of this thread, I really like what Stoops said in his presser about balance. To him it's not about having equal stats in run/pass, it's about being able to exploit the other team's weaknesses. That can mean 400 yards passing and less than 100 yards rushing for a W (Sugar Bowl) or 300 yards rushing and 150 passing and a W (WVU). (estimating stats of course). I am not so worried about Knight not running the ball. I think the coaches want to win games, and I think they want to protect Knight. Ergo, when they feel like they need to use his run game, they won't hesitate to do so if it will get the W. But they won't use him in a game we are dominating in the trenches. Against WVU the end was looking in a lot which left lanes open on the corner for Knight. But it is kind of like a chicken and egg thing - was he looking in because we handed off the ball to Perine every play? And when Perine pops off for 13 and a first down, it doesn't make much sense to expose Knight to contact if not needed. There is nobody close to Knight in the QB chain unless Bell is secretly getting some snaps. The young'uns aren't ready yet.

[hawaii 5-0]

Don't know when it'll be but one of these games Knight is gonna discover a TE out there named Bell and he'll (Bell) have a big game.


5-0

[BoulderSooner79]

A good example of importance of protecting the QB is playing on the NFL. Bridgewater lights 'em up last week and the Vikings gain the most yardage of any game since '04. But then he sprains an ankle trying to run near the end of the game and the Vikings with Ponder are getting hammered tonight.

[EatLeadCommie]

Bumping this thread because I think it's worth considering again. In a game like today where we clearly could've used some zone read, we had TK there again just handing it off. He wasn't even bothering to read the D. Is this because of instruction or because he is bad at reading the D? One would think that he would be unleashed today to actually run zone read plays and not just go through the motions, but who knows. This is why I think it is important for him to actually run it in meaningless games, even if it runs the risk of him getting hit and hurt. If you don't practice it in real time against scrubs, how are you going to run it against real competition? And why have a running QB if you aren't going to let him run?

[BoulderSooner79]

He never ran the zone read. But he certainly ran a lot and probably more than coaches wanted. There were 2 QB draws and 1 keeper around the end that I remember. The rest were scrambles on passing plays. It appeared all that running really affected his accuracy throwing and we needed that more than his running, IMO.

[ObiKaTony]

He never ran the zone read. But he certainly ran a lot and probably more than coaches wanted. There were 2 QB draws and 1 keeper around the end that I remember. The rest were scrambles on passing plays. It appeared all that running really affected his accuracy throwing and we needed that more than his running, IMO.

That is completely and totally idiotic- perhaps him throwing too
Much effected his elbow which effected his accuracy. Stop, just stop...

[BoulderSooner79]

That is completely and totally idiotic- perhaps him throwing too
Much effected his elbow which effected his accuracy. Stop, just stop...

I meant the hits he took at the end of those runs, dooshes rex. He came up limping after 1 at the end of the 3rd and couldn't hit anything for a while after that. He also lost control of the ball twice, but was lucky enough to corral it himself. I will not stop...

[Sooner8th]

Who ever thought knight could make Katie Perry look bad?

[Eielson]

I will not stop...

WHO GON' STOP ME, HUH?!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Why wouldn't it be from the zone read?

My point is that his skill set is set up perfectly for the read. First he can throw an accurate ball on the run, he can run, he isn't consistent from the pocket, and he has weapons all around him that are made more accessible by keeping the lb's cb's honest. Now, this only works if the option is there for TK to run, and it appears that he is being told to handoff the ball (hence the 3-19) let TK be the qb he is, and it aint Landry Jones, and that is the offense we are currently running.


I agree with this post..And the problem is on the "zone read" plays as that they are not zone reads options..There is no option for TK to pull the ball back in based on how it looks.