Stategy now?

[rock on sooner]

Haven't seen anyone posting about what's happening with Cruise missiles,
stealth fighters/bombers. Certainly appears that there was/is a strategy.
Interesting, too, that so many Pubs want us to put "boots on the ground".
The accuracy is breathtaking...Syria, Iraq....
Serious question....what say y'all?

[SoonerProphet]

What now? Okay great, you have begun to hit targets, how is that going to help stabilize the situation?

[yermom]

i was listening to something on NPR this morning about it emboldening the grassroots resistance

eventually somebody is going to need to take arms to do anything, but it really would be nice if they spoke the language IMO

[Turd_Ferguson]

I don't think that was quite the response that Rock was look'n for...

[rock on sooner]

Yer right, TF, I heard a lot of "He has no strategy" and "Why did he
say that?" when this crap started. Honestly, if anyone thinks our
military planners don't have MANY targets locked in, waiting to exercise
"extreme prejudice" as soon as the CIC sez go, then that group of folks
are far less informed than is normal. Just look at the precision of the
first exercise...happy that bunch is on my side!

The board is remarkedly silent about the CIC not doing what McCain,
Graham, Chambliss, Kristol, et al want him to do. It seems as though,
and help me out here, that if Obama is reluctant to kick some a$$, then
he is weak. If he sez/does kick some a$$, then he is going off half cocked
and getting us into another war. In MANY posts, I have remarked about
how much this man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He
has most of the best minds in the world advising him and, jeez, at least
he is careful.

Now, TF, I aint expectin you to do anything other than...jus 'nother lib..
and that's okay...but, put this stuff into perspective, what the hell...?!

[Soonerjeepman]

got no prob with what he's doing now. His domestic issues are another thing.

[rock on sooner]

got no prob with what he's doing now. His domestic issues are another thing.

Seems to me that the "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't"
was just emphasized...e.g., okay, he's doing the foreign policy thing,
but why isn't he fixing the Republican blocked agenda concerning the
economy? Umm, lessee, ask Boehner, McConnell, Bachmann, MCCain,
Ryan, Grassley, Chambliss and, outside the Congress, Limbaugh, Kristol,
Coulter, Ingraham and, never mind the Pub governors trying to undo
the ACA at every turn....any and every thing to obstruct progess...

C'mon, Jeep, ya gotta see that, doncha?

[cleller]

You feel that ISIS is now substantially weakened or something? Radical Islam now longer a global threat?

Something changed over there now? Heck no. Its just as bad as its been for many months, and worse than it was a few years ago.

If there was/is a strategy, its something that Obama knew nothing of. He probably just told someone to let the Pentagon do what they felt they should for a few days, and see how the wind blows.

[rock on sooner]

You feel that ISIS is now substantially weakened or something? Radical Islam now longer a global threat?

Something changed over there now?

Now, rilly? Not no, but hell no! Not yet, but over 200 precision strikes on
oil, communications, training, hideouts, vehicles just driving down a road...
apparently taking out leaders. The oil strikes alone take out $2M a day
from their coffers....never mind the Khorazan Group...wow, you folks just
don't want to admit that something good will come from this....you simply
refuse to admit that Obama can do some good. That's too bad....

[rock on sooner]

You feel that ISIS is now substantially weakened or something? Radical Islam now longer a global threat?

Something changed over there now? Heck no. Its just as bad as its been for many months, and worse than it was a few years ago.

If there was/is a strategy, its something that Obama knew nothing of. He probably just told someone to let the Pentagon do what they felt they should for a few days, and see how the wind blows.

Clearly, you've never heard of the NIE...the daily briefings that the CIC gets, you
know little about why every prez ages so fast...they don't get a night's sleep...
the world goes on 24/7....why do you think so many people burn out in the
White House? EVERYTHING is a freakin' crisis...tell the Pentagon do what they
feel is rght? Obviously, you are not familiar with "chain of command"...that's
too bad, it seems as though you know little about the interconnecting efforts
of the government and what it takes for this effort to be effective...

No, I've not been in the White House, but I did hold a TS codeword clearance
and was able to understand some of what was happening....

[Soonerjeepman]

Rock,
Obviously I don't believe his agenda. So throwing out all those pub's names as blocking his agenda is fine with me. That's why I voted them in and if your side was blocking the president and his agenda if you didn't believe it would be fine for you.

I won't go into all the details...just I don't agree with his agenda...see my thread on climate change...

As far as foreign policy...the air strikes are fine. I'd rather see that than troops on the ground.

[cleller]

Clearly, you've never heard of the NIE...the daily briefings that the CIC gets, you
know little about why every prez ages so fast...they don't get a night's sleep...
the world goes on 24/7....why do you think so many people burn out in the
White House? EVERYTHING is a freakin' crisis...tell the Pentagon do what they
feel is rght? Obviously, you are not familiar with "chain of command"...that's
too bad, it seems as though you know little about the interconnecting efforts
of the government and what it takes for this effort to be effective...

No, I've not been in the White House, but I did hold a TS codeword clearance
and was able to understand some of what was happening....

What kind of jibberish is that? The ISIS diversion tactic?

Are you sure its safe for someone of your lofty level of govt knowledge of codewords, chain of command, and all that to be blathering on a Soonerfans board? For crying out loud, everyone knows what chain of command is. If you're that "in the know" you wouldn't be spewing nonsense crap like this on the internet. Good Lord, stop. Its awful. You're like Tom Clancy's illegitimate step cousin.

Is it too much to expect the Prez to lead? Make a decision? Do anything at all? He's the one who uttered the "no strategy" lines, let him live with it, you don't have to battle for him.

Ah well, its hard for the Dems to focus on ISIS when they'd rather support their constituents who are out robbing, looting and burning. What an august collection of individuals. Priorities.

[FaninAma]

We'll see how strong Obama's new found warrior persona is when Al Jazeera starts showing pictures of civilian men, women and children our bombing have killed. You know that the ISIS vermin are going to shield themselves and their assets among the civilan population and using mosques to hide their military hardware and upper echelon staff. How are we going to ferret them out of Mosul? Aren't there 600,000 or more people who live there?

Why are we there? Don't these morons get it? The United States will never, ever stop the sectarian war in the Middle East. It will have to play itself out and when they get tired of slaughtering each other maybe they will join the 21st century.

The best thing we as a nation can do is develop our energy resources and not depend on the Middle East for an Allahdamned thing.

[BoulderSooner79]

We'll see how strong Obama's new found warrior persona is when Al Jazeera starts showing pictures of civilian men, women and children our bombing have killed. You know that the ISIS vermin are going to shield themselves and their assets among the civilan population and using mosques to hide their military hardware and upper echelon staff. How are we going to ferret them out of Mosul? Aren't there 600,000 or more people who live there?

Why are we there? Don't these morons get it? The United States will never, ever stop the sectarian war in the Middle East. It will have to play itself out and when they get tired of slaughtering each other maybe they will join the 21st century.

The best thing we as a nation can do is develop our energy resources and not depend on the Middle East for an Allahdamned thing.

Have to agree with this. What we are doing is not a strategy - it is trying to put out a local fire. The forming of a coalition is more important than the bombing campaign if it were anything real and lasting. But I don't hold out much hope for that. ISIS may wither, but the leaders will scatter and form something else - kickstarter for terrorist anyone? As long as we have warships and carriers cruising in middle eastern waters, we are the common enemy that gives these monsters recruiting power. Just imagine the effect of Iranian aircraft carriers zipping up and down our Atlantic coast just barely into international waters. That's what people over there see us doing. They don't hate us or even care that much about us over there - at least not the ones pulling the strings. We are just recruiting tools for the various groups trying to win their power struggles.

[IGotNoTiming]

Obama will never be praised for doing anything correctly in Republican states. It is pretty well documented.

[IGotNoTiming]

As far as the events in the middle east go, I am 100% opposed to using our military, for one reason and one reason only.

It has never worked in that region before. For anyone to say that it has, is sheer lunacy.

It is like watching a rerun hoping for a different ending.

[rock on sooner]

What kind of jibberish is that? The ISIS diversion tactic?

Are you sure its safe for someone of your lofty level of govt knowledge of codewords, chain of command, and all that to be blathering on a Soonerfans board? For crying out loud, everyone knows what chain of command is. If you're that "in the know" you wouldn't be spewing nonsense crap like this on the internet. Good Lord, stop. Its awful. You're like Tom Clancy's illegitimate step cousin.

Is it too much to expect the Prez to lead? Make a decision? Do anything at all? He's the one who uttered the "no strategy" lines, let him live with it, you don't have to battle for him.

Ah well, its hard for the Dems to focus on ISIS when they'd rather support their constituents who are out robbing, looting and burning. What an august collection of individuals. Priorities.
So sorry, Cleller, dint mean to blather, just wanted to provide a little
insight that maybe some didn't think about. As to it being on a
Soonerfans board, well, you know...

[cleller]

So sorry, Cleller, dint mean to blather, just wanted to provide a little
insight that maybe some didn't think about. As to it being on a
Soonerfans board, well, you know...

Regardless of what either of us intended, I'll say I regret coming back with such a defensive outburst.

[rock on sooner]

Regardless of what either of us intended, I'll say I regret coming back with such a defensive outburst.
No problems here....there are a number of posters on this board
who are vets and understand what I meant, but there are a number
who didn't serve and, in some cases, believe Obama is not clued in
to the military and it's protocols...that's why I got so exercised.

There is little doubt that Obama is held to low esteem here, but the OP
was to point out that a strategy existed, long before Obama put his
foot in his mouth with the "no strategy" remark....imo, makes no
sense to tell the enemy what's coming....I don't think ISIL had a clue....
but, they do now....

[FaninAma]

As far as the events in the middle east go, I am 100% opposed to using our military, for one reason and one reason only.

It has never worked in that region before. For anyone to say that it has, is sheer lunacy.

It is like watching a rerun hoping for a different ending.
It is the definition of insanity. That seems to be the MO of politicians on both sides of the aisle.

The Democrats: "Oh, the poverty rate isn't going down and we have an explosion in single mothers? Well, we just need to spend more money and create even more entitlements!"

The GOP: "Oh, you mean there is yet another murderous, radical muslim element in the Middle East that hates us and is sponsored by one of the sectarian warring interests in the region? Heck, lets send more of our sons and daughters into harms way and waste hundreds of billions of tax payer dollars we really don't have to achieve some temporary victory with no f'ing idea how we extricate ourselves from this mess!"

Anybody remember what Reagan did after the Beirut Marine barracks bombing? He said f*ck this. These bastards are crazy and there really isn't a clear picture of who the bad guys and good guys are. He also admitted sending the Marines to Lebanon was the biggest mistake of his presidency.

[rock on sooner]

It is the definition of insanity. That seems to be the MO of politicians on both sides of the aisle.

The Democrats: "Oh, the poverty rate isn't going down and we have an explosion in single mothers? Well, we just need to spend more money and create even more entitlements!"

The GOP: "Oh, you mean there is yet another murderous, radical muslim element in the Middle East that hates us and is sponsored by one of the sectarian warring interests in the region? Heck, lets send more of our sons and daughters into harms way and waste hundreds of billions of tax payer dollars we really don't have to achieve some temporary victory with no f'ing idea how we extricate ourselves from this mess!"

Anybody remember what Reagan did after the Beirut Marine barracks bombing? He said f*ck this. These bastards are crazy and there really isn't a clear picture of who the bad guys and good guys are. He also admitted sending the Marines to Lebanon was the biggest mistake of his presidency.

Fan, in this day and age and this vitriolic political climate, even Reagan
would be "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't". We have hawks
like Graham and McCain screaming for more, Dem doves who want to bring
our treasure home, people like Paul, who want to be isolationist...unlikely
agreement from Gingrich, of all people, Kristol/Chambliss/Joint Chiefs who
say that air alone won't win....maybe the Iraqis can stand up to ISIS, Assad
needs to step on an IED....there is no end game here....Insanity? Not in the
true definition...all Obama can do, I think, is what he's doing...degrading, in
hopes of destroying them. IMO, JSOG will be deployed covertly and a large
number of ISIL will greet the virgins....and the bombing will continue.....

[8timechamps]

I've felt like we should have hit Syria two years ago. I don't think it would have kept ISIS out, but I do think it would have greatly reduced their size and ability. Nonetheless, that's water under the bridge.

The air-strikes/missile strikes are great and all, but will mean very little without a ground force to support them. We've been bombing the region for years, and the results are 'okay' at best. I do not believe the ground force should be our troops, in fact, I don't think that should be on the table. The people in the region need to pull their collective head's out and take care of this problem. However, there is some blame for the US to own, and that's why I'm fine with the continued airstrikes...they just won't work on their own.

[BoulderSooner79]

I still feel doing anything in Syria two years ago would have been a mistake. We would have been taking sides in a civil war no matter how we tried to spin it. And putting artificial rules on who to help and who to avoid in a situation that is full of chaos is a no starter. And if it wasn't ISIS, it would have been some other group form. The conditions are ripe and there will always be someone willing to step in and take advantage of the opportunity to grab power. We agree it's water under the bridge.

The air strikes don't bother me and I can cynically say it pumps money into our defense industry (meh). I've said it is just trying to put out a fire and maybe this is a fire worth peeing on. But the slippery slope danger is in full effect here. I assume you saw that article that many of these strikes are using $30k bombs to destroy $250k humvees that we gave to the Iraqi army. So the slippery slope is not just getting pulled into a stupid full-fledged war, but arming/supplying "moderate" Syrian dissidents will end up with a similar action down the road. But hey, just put that $280k/strike on the tab - it's already in the trillions.

We totally agree about staying away from using ground troops. Just look at Iran criticizing our efforts as theatre. The threat to our homeland from ISIS or other terrorists is pretty small. But it's a real threat they will try rule all the countries surrounding Iran and then making their lives miserable. So where is Iran's ground troops and military? They must assume we are stupid enough to come in repel the threat without them having to lift a finger. I fear they may be right.

[8timechamps]

I still feel doing anything in Syria two years ago would have been a mistake. We would have been taking sides in a civil war no matter how we tried to spin it. And putting artificial rules on who to help and who to avoid in a situation that is full of chaos is a no starter. And if it wasn't ISIS, it would have been some other group form. The conditions are ripe and there will always be someone willing to step in and take advantage of the opportunity to grab power. We agree it's water under the bridge.

The air strikes don't bother me and I can cynically say it pumps money into our defense industry (meh). I've said it is just trying to put out a fire and maybe this is a fire worth peeing on. But the slippery slope danger is in full effect here. I assume you saw that article that many of these strikes are using $30k bombs to destroy $250k humvees that we gave to the Iraqi army. So the slippery slope is not just getting pulled into a stupid full-fledged war, but arming/supplying "moderate" Syrian dissidents will end up with a similar action down the road. But hey, just put that $280k/strike on the tab - it's already in the trillions.

We totally agree about staying away from using ground troops. Just look at Iran criticizing our efforts as theatre. The threat to our homeland from ISIS or other terrorists is pretty small. But it's a real threat they will try rule all the countries surrounding Iran and then making their lives miserable. So where is Iran's ground troops and military? They must assume we are stupid enough to come in repel the threat without them having to lift a finger. I fear they may be right.

No question that any involvement in Syria (whether it be now or two years ago) wouldn't have/isn't going to solve the larger problem. The only reason I felt we needed to act a couple of years ago was because of the humanitarian issue. I know we shouldn't have to play the world's police force, but it's what we do, and have done for a long time. So, my eagerness to engage was more emotional than logical.

My biggest fear at this point is that we will end up putting US troops back in the region. It almost feels inevitable. When asked repeatedly this week, General Dempsy has tried to tiptoe around the matter, but has made it clear that bringing US troops into theater isn't off the table. It also appears that some in Washington seem to think that's the only way to defeat ISIS. Whether it is or isn't, I am completely against the idea. I think most folks feel the same.

In an odd turn of events, Iran seems to be right on the money with today's comments. The larger message (and I'm sure you've read the same stuff) is that airstrikes alone isn't going to end this. What I would like to hear is why Iran hasn't stepped up and offered their own ground troops (although I really feel like the US wouldn't even consider that option).

I'm not a big Bill O'Reilly fan, but I saw a recent comment he made, and it made sense. He said (paraphrasing) the billionaire governments in the region need to fund a private militia, with technology and skills to go in and hunt down ISIS. That would be the best way to go, but again, it's never going to happen.

And yeah, I saw the same report on the $30K bombs being used on $250K humvees we provided Iraq. Every time I see a video of ISIS, it seems to always show two or three humvees in their parade...I cringe every time I see it.

On a completely different note, why do those folks like to parade their military around so much? I can sort of understand the old Soviet "show of force" days, but that was in relative peace time. These fools are in the middle of war, running through the streets waving their flags and parading their equipment...like Saddam used to do. If only we could intercept one of their parade itineraries, we could really use the airstrikes to maximum effect.

[rock on sooner]

In an earlier post, I mentioned $500k cruise missile, I was wrong...it is $1.1m
and I knew that, so I missed that...here's the point...I think the rain will continue
for a long while and ISIL will grow weary...will they go away? Nope, they will,however,
stay really low and wait!...Therein lies the problem, somehow the USA needs to kiss
off the sand region, allow the Isrealis ample time to prepare and turn that region to
some undesirable habitat for a few thousand years...seems as though that is all that
"computes"...Saudi, Bahrain, UAE, Jordan, Syria, Iran, some edges of Turkey ought to
know...and then just do it!

Aw, I know all about what is right and what isn't, but look back over history...has any
entity figured it? Not only no, but, RILLY no...in all my 70 years of life, just do it!
(Actually, I have only 69 birthdays but Denzel said to remember the first birthday..
you had already lived a year....!) Oh, BTW, I'm the YOUNGEST 69/70 you ever met!!!
Heh, jus sayin...

[rock on sooner]

No question that any involvement in Syria (whether it be now or two years ago) wouldn't have/isn't going to solve the larger problem. The only reason I felt we needed to act a couple of years ago was because of the humanitarian issue. I know we shouldn't have to play the world's police force, but it's what we do, and have done for a long time. So, my eagerness to engage was more emotional than logical.

My biggest fear at this point is that we will end up putting US troops back in the region. It almost feels inevitable. When asked repeatedly this week, General Dempsy has tried to tiptoe around the matter, but has made it clear that bringing US troops into theater isn't off the table. It also appears that some in Washington seem to think that's the only way to defeat ISIS. Whether it is or isn't, I am completely against the idea. I think most folks feel the same.

In an odd turn of events, Iran seems to be right on the money with today's comments. The larger message (and I'm sure you've read the same stuff) is that airstrikes alone isn't going to end this. What I would like to hear is why Iran hasn't stepped up and offered their own ground troops (although I really feel like the US wouldn't even consider that option).

I'm not a big Bill O'Reilly fan, but I saw a recent comment he made, and it made sense. He said (paraphrasing) the billionaire governments in the region need to fund a private militia, with technology and skills to go in and hunt down ISIS. That would be the best way to go, but again, it's never going to happen.

And yeah, I saw the same report on the $30K bombs being used on $250K humvees we provided Iraq. Every time I see a video of ISIS, it seems to always show two or three humvees in their parade...I cringe every time I see it.

On a completely different note, why do those folks like to parade their military around so much? I can sort of understand the old Soviet "show of force" days, but that was in relative peace time. These fools are in the middle of war, running through the streets waving their flags and parading their equipment...like Saddam used to do. If only we could intercept one of their parade itineraries, we could really use the airstrikes to maximum effect.

8X, it has always been a mystery to me how they can have so many
propaganda type videos and we don't somehow know what/where/how
they are...figure that out and some drones/Cruise/Stealth could fix a
bunch of issues...pretty sure someone is working on that very issue....

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm not a big Bill O'Reilly fan, but I saw a recent comment he made, and it made sense. He said (paraphrasing) the billionaire governments in the region need to fund a private militia, with technology and skills to go in and hunt down ISIS. That would be the best way to go, but again, it's never going to happen.

Seems like as good approach as any - the key being the geographically local countries taking the action. I understand the humanitarian aspect, but I think that is hopeless too. They just don't think like we do and lives don't mean the same thing. Look at how Maliki refused to step down even though ISIS took over giant sections of Iraq and were killing large numbers of civilians. He didn't give a rats azz about those rural folks as long as he could maintain power in Baghdad. He always assumed the USA would step in and save the day and he finally relented when we let it play out and he felt in real danger. As painful as it is, we need to let things play out more and it will be bloody. If we step in and create a temporary barrier, it just delays the bloodshed, but more importantly, delays those in power over there from acting.

We really do need a long term strategy to drive our actions. But that is impossible to do right now with a lame duck administration. And with our short election cycles relative to long campaigning cycles, the window to establish a comprehensive plan is extremely short.

[olevetonahill]

In an earlier post, I mentioned $500k cruise missile, I was wrong...it is $1.1m
and I knew that, so I missed that...here's the point...I think the rain will continue
for a long while and ISIL will grow weary...will they go away? Nope, they will,however,
stay really low and wait!...Therein lies the problem, somehow the USA needs to kiss
off the sand region, allow the Isrealis ample time to prepare and turn that region to
some undesirable habitat for a few thousand years...seems as though that is all that
"computes"...Saudi, Bahrain, UAE, Jordan, Syria, Iran, some edges of Turkey ought to
know...and then just do it!

Aw, I know all about what is right and what isn't, but look back over history...has any
entity figured it? Not only no, but, RILLY no...in all my 70 years of life, just do it!
(Actually, I have only 69 birthdays but Denzel said to remember the first birthday..
you had already lived a year....!) Oh, BTW, I'm the YOUNGEST 69/70 you ever met!!!
Heh, jus sayin...

Im with ya on everything but turning it into Glass. Just break the Neutron Bomb out and its all over. then go in with Dozers and clean it up and Pump the Oil.

[8timechamps]

Seems like as good approach as any - the key being the geographically local countries taking the action. I understand the humanitarian aspect, but I think that is hopeless too. They just don't think like we do and lives don't mean the same thing. Look at how Maliki refused to step down even though ISIS took over giant sections of Iraq and were killing large numbers of civilians. He didn't give a rats azz about those rural folks as long as he could maintain power in Baghdad. He always assumed the USA would step in and save the day and he finally relented when we let it play out and he felt in real danger. As painful as it is, we need to let things play out more and it will be bloody. If we step in and create a temporary barrier, it just delays the bloodshed, but more importantly, delays those in power over there from acting.

We really do need a long term strategy to drive our actions. But that is impossible to do right now with a lame duck administration. And with our short election cycles relative to long campaigning cycles, the window to establish a comprehensive plan is extremely short.

I know it's hopeless (I knew it when I wanted the US to do something). But, you're right, they don't value life the same way, and ultimately, that's what keeps me from being too concerned for them.

We need a major overhaul in how we deal with that part of the world. Like you said though, our system lends very little time to a resolute strategy. Unless/until both sides can put aside the partisan politics, I don't see much changing.

Sometimes I think our best course of action would be to wash our hands at it, and take the resources we're going to spend and spend them here, to secure our country. Eventually, things would get so bad over there that they (the countries in the region) would have no choice but get blood on their own hands. I don't know if alternative fuel/energy sources will replace fossil fuels in my lifetime, but I do think we can do a better job of procuring those resources in our own country while developing the alternates. Break away from the foreign oil nipple, and thinks would change fast over there.

[8timechamps]

8X, it has always been a mystery to me how they can have so many
propaganda type videos and we don't somehow know what/where/how
they are...figure that out and some drones/Cruise/Stealth could fix a
bunch of issues...pretty sure someone is working on that very issue....

Yep, I'm right there with you. Finding the folks that supply these groups (whether it be food, clothing, video editing, etc.), then you find those folks who will intern lead you to the folks you're looking for.