listening to The Sports Urinal earlier today.....

[SteelClip49]

and Traber says Snyder is the best coach of all time because he resurrected the same program twice; and the first time after the program had nothing to show for since the mid 30s.

PJ Mills, who I do not care for, at least was spot on when he said it's about winning championships to be considered great. I am with him on that.

There is no doubt Snyder is one hell of a coach, but he has yet to even get KSU to a national championship game.

This discussion was brought on from an ESPN radio segment saying Briles and Snyder are top 5 coaches right now, which is hilarious.


Top 5 coaches right now, imo, are:

1. Satan
2. Meyer
3. Stoops
4. Fisher
5. Shaw


What say you all?

[picasso]

I say scholly limits has given all of the little turd programs a chance.

[BoulderSooner79]

If Snyder had been HC at OU (or USC or Bama or ND or…) he would have had several shots at titles, IMO. He came within 1 game of a title shot on 2 different occasion at the recruiting barren wasteland that is KSU. Pretty amazing. The flip side of that argument is that he is unproven at handling the high profile athletes that come to the elite programs - a challenge onto itself.

[picasso]

I think he had the 2nd best team in the country in 2000 and the fact that we beat those jerks twice that year makes it all the sweeter.

[BoulderSooner79]

I was pulling for KSU both times they knocked on the door. They would have played Tennessee for the title the year they choked the CCG in OT against aTm. They were as good as anyone that year ('98?). I wish they would have played ND a couple of years ago, but they really weren't good enough - the Baylor drubbing was no fluke. But a title game with no SEC teams would have been glorious just due to the joy of reading the SEC teams message boards.

I can't make a list of top coaches because I just don't have enough info. How about the coach a North Dakota State or Appy State or Union College? The guys that have won multiple consecutive national titles in lower level programs? Just listing the current top coaches at the handful of elite programs with all the resources is pretty easy.

[picasso]

Yeah they were loaded in'98. Just goes to show how special it is when you go undefeated. You need some luck even if you're the best and theirs ran out against aTm.
Switzer could have easily won a few more titles with a little luck. What he did wasn't exactly short of miraculous. Those teams were electric right off the bat.

[Salt City Sooner]

I was pulling for KSU both times they knocked on the door. They would have played Tennessee for the title the year they choked the CCG in OT against aTm. They were as good as anyone that year ('98?). I wish they would have played ND a couple of years ago, but they really weren't good enough - the Baylor drubbing was no fluke. But a title game with no SEC teams would have been glorious just due to the joy of reading the SEC teams message boards.

I can't make a list of top coaches because I just don't have enough info. How about the coach a North Dakota State or Appy State or Union College? The guys that have won multiple consecutive national titles in lower level programs? Just listing the current top coaches at the handful of elite programs with all the resources is pretty easy.
Bohl is now the HC @ Wyoming, FWIW.

[8timechamps]

As much as I dislike Trabor, I have to agree with him to a point. I wouldn't say he's the greatest ever, there are just too many great coaches (past and present) to put that label on him alone. I do think he is one of the best of all time, and a top 3 currently.

You have to really look at what he has been able to accomplish. K-State was the joke of the old Big 8, and when Snyder retired the first time, they were quickly heading back in that direction. The fact that he was able to bring it back a second time is a nice accomplishment, but nothing compared to his first building job.

I think his son is in position to take over when he does hang it up, but I don't know if that means he can continue the same success.

[badger]

The problem with Bill Snyder's legacy is that when coaches build their programs into conference champion winners, BCS bowl candidates and even national title contenders, there needs to be some staying power. There needs to be something to show for it after you retire. There needs to be some continuity.

OU is the house that Bud built, Barry continued and Bob keeps on top of the college football world.

KSU is the house that Bill built, but that only Bill can maintain. When Bill leaves, the house will immediately fall into disrepair, the neighbors will report it to the city and the city will label it "condemned" (to the Sun Belt) as quickly as possible.

This is not a knock on Snyder. This is a knock on KSU. Why in the hell haven't they built something that will outlive Snyder when Snyder has done everything he possibly could to take the sh!ttiest program to the top. Baylor didn't just remove the tarp and call it a done deal. Baylor is building Art Briles a new on-campus stadium. All KSU did was stick Snyder's name on the crappy old one. Boo KSU

[8timechamps]

The problem with Bill Snyder's legacy is that when coaches build their programs into conference champion winners, BCS bowl candidates and even national title contenders, there needs to be some staying power. There needs to be something to show for it after you retire. There needs to be some continuity.

OU is the house that Bud built, Barry continued and Bob keeps on top of the college football world.

KSU is the house that Bill built, but that only Bill can maintain. When Bill leaves, the house will immediately fall into disrepair, the neighbors will report it to the city and the city will label it "condemned" (to the Sun Belt) as quickly as possible.

This is not a knock on Snyder. This is a knock on KSU. Why in the hell haven't they built something that will outlive Snyder when Snyder has done everything he possibly could to take the sh!ttiest program to the top. Baylor didn't just remove the tarp and call it a done deal. Baylor is building Art Briles a new on-campus stadium. All KSU did was stick Snyder's name on the crappy old one. Boo KSU

I don't know if I agree with you.

I don't think Snyder's legacy is going to be hurt if KSU drops off again. Coaching legacies are built on what happens during their time on the job; wins, rankings, players and coaching tree. Snyder has a check in all of those boxes.

When Snyder retires, if KSU does fall off, I don't think it will have any negative effect on his legacy. In fact, I think it would be opposite.

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't know if I agree with you.

I don't think Snyder's legacy is going to be hurt if KSU drops off again. Coaching legacies are built on what happens during their time on the job; wins, rankings, players and coaching tree. Snyder has a check in all of those boxes.

When Snyder retires, if KSU does fall off, I don't think it will have any negative effect on his legacy. In fact, I think it would be opposite.

There are so many ways to judge a HC. Snyder certainly excels in developing talent and getting players to play as a team at a high level relative to their talents. Also high marks on the X's and O's. But other guys are better at building a program that produces good teams - more the CEO type. I'm not even sure that is possible at KSU as I can't see the alumni or tax payers willing to pour in the necessary $$. But then again, it's hard to explain how NU ever became a tradition power house, but they did.

[8timechamps]

There are so many ways to judge a HC. Snyder certainly excels in developing talent and getting players to play as a team at a high level relative to their talents. Also high marks on the X's and O's. But other guys are better at building a program that produces good teams - more the CEO type. I'm not even sure that is possible at KSU as I can't see the alumni or tax payers willing to pour in the necessary $$. But then again, it's hard to explain how NU ever became a tradition power house, but they did.

I've given this more thought in the past couple of days than I really wanted to, but I think biggest reason I wouldn't put Snyder at the top is because he has never won it all. If you're going to be labels "the best" at whatever it is you do, then part of the qualification process should be proving your the best at what you do. Snyder, for all he has done, hasn't made that mark.

As for KSU post-Snyder, I don't think it'll take long for the program to fall back to mediocrity (or worse). KSU strikes me as a fanbase that happily supports the team when they are winning, but has no patience when they're not...as proven by my ventures to Manhattan pre-Snyder (when you could pretty much pick your own seat).

[soonerstan56]

Snyder has done an incredible job of coaching but didn't some guy winning the lottery and bankrolling KSU have a lot to do with their success ?

Stan

[stoopified]

Personally I'm not convinced that Fisher and Shaw have done enough to be ranked Top 10 much less Top 5.

[badger]

When Snyder retires, if KSU does fall off, I don't think it will have any negative effect on his legacy. In fact, I think it would be opposite.

8time is one of the more reasonably disagreers here. That's why he's the real Modador :P

As noted in last paragraph, the fact that KSU will suck after he's gone is a knock on KSU, not Snyder. And 50 years from now, when they are as mediocre as Army in football, there may be Army-like excuses for why KSU was winning once upon a time but can barely compete anymore. As such, being associated with crappy KSU may drag him down like the never-won-a-national-title anchor when it comes to coaching legacy. He was good, one of the best of his era, but he never won it all, and the program will never get another coach like him

[stoops the eternal pimp]

21 years as HC at K State...2 conference titles.

The guy is one of the most consistent coaches in history..Not sure I can say one of the best.

[badger]

21 years as HC at K State...2 conference titles.

The guy is one of the most consistent coaches in history..Not sure I can say one of the best.

I know that KSU once the worst program in major college football, but considering where Baylor once was in the Big 12... dare I suggest that Art Briles has done better?

[KantoSooner]

STEP, what you say is true, but considering how low KSU had gone/always been, I've got to give him credit for, essentially, resurrecting the dead. He's not the best, but he is a minor miracle worker.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I know that KSU once the worst program in major college football, but considering where Baylor once was in the Big 12... dare I suggest that Art Briles has done better?
No...Baylor's place in the cellar is nothing compared to how long it was occupied by K State

[stoops the eternal pimp]

STEP, what you say is true, but considering how low KSU had gone/always been, I've got to give him credit for, essentially, resurrecting the dead. He's not the best, but he is a minor miracle worker.

I'm not really trying to discount what he has done..But at some point in that 21 years, is it still amazing for them to win 8-9 ball games? At what point is it ok to say they should have at least played for a NC game if someone is going to call him one of the greatest?

[KantoSooner]

Oh, I agree. I wouldn't call him one of the best, but I do hold him in respect for successfully polishing a turd.

[8timechamps]

No...Baylor's place in the cellar is nothing compared to how long it was occupied by K State

Art Briles is Baylor. When he leaves, and he will in time, they will struggle. I really like Briles, and he couldn't have been a better fit for Baylor. But, I honestly think he wants to coach in the NFL.