Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

[badger]

So because it's "disparaging to Native Americans (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/nfl/trademark-board-rules-against-washington-redskins-name/article_a152575f-188f-505c-bc41-815f0b0360e8.html)" the patent office ruled that the team's trademarks are going to get canceled.

Sooners-related because Trent Williams can catch a ball with one hand (via his twitter (https://twitter.com/TrentW71)):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqGLzUQCIAEMT3P.jpg

[badger]

PS: I'm voting "should" because I think it's funny when billionaire brats don't get their way... and that the franchise didn't do more sooner to establish a relationship with the Native American community

[olevetonahill]

PS: I'm voting "should" because I think it's funny when billionaire brats don't get their way... and that the franchise didn't do more sooner to establish a relationship with the Native American community

I voted Shouldnt Cause I think its a bunch of Horse shat!

[KantoSooner]

You always risk stuff like this when you use any ethnic anything. Think of New Zealand's 'Haka war dance'. How about the Minnesota Vikings? Does the 'Patriots' namesake mean that all their opponents are 'Not Patriots'? And Houston's 'Texans', well, I am sure there are many, many players on that team who feel humiliated and ashamed; as well they should!

I guess, they should change the franchise's name. Some people feel butt hurt about it. I reserve the right to think that such people need to take a chill pill.

[badger]

I voted Shouldnt Cause I think its a bunch of Horse shat!

It is, but everything I've read about Dan Snyder makes me think another billionaire temper tantrum is mounting. Here's hoping his personal assistant records the conversation and he tells her who she can and can't bring to "his games" :P

[olevetonahill]

It is, but everything I've read about Dan Snyder makes me think another billionaire temper tantrum is mounting. Here's hoping his personal assistant records the conversation and he tells her who she can and can't bring to "his games" :P

Maybe he will Say Dont bring no stinkin Injuns!

[sooneron]

You always risk stuff like this when you use any ethnic anything. Think of New Zealand's 'Haka war dance'. How about the Minnesota Vikings? Does the 'Patriots' namesake mean that all their opponents are 'Not Patriots'? And Houston's 'Texans', well, I am sure there are many, many players on that team who feel humiliated and ashamed; as well they should!

I guess, they should change the franchise's name. Some people feel butt hurt about it. I reserve the right to think that such people need to take a chill pill.
The first part of your argument is silly. The second part is ignorant. I know that kid that is in this day and age is being called a redskin and that's at Norman high, of all places. If you're Native American, fine, you can have that opinion, but if you're not and you've never been made to feel inferior because of your appearance or skin color, then your opinion means squat because it's baseless.

[olevetonahill]

The first part of your argument is silly. The second part is ignorant. I know that kid that is in this day and age is being called a redskin and that's at Norman high, of all places. If you're Native American, fine, you can have that opinion, but if you're not and you've never been made to feel inferior because of your appearance or skin color, then your opinion means squat because it's baseless.
The whole ****ing argument is ****ing Silly! Hells Bell If some one names sompun that In Yer opinion is derogatory to YOU, Then Dont patronize them.

Hell I had a Teacher in the 4th grade her Name was Mrs. Rape. Guess she should have been forced to change her name so she wouldnt Offend wimmens who been Raped.
Grow a Pair and Be who YOU are.

[KantoSooner]

The first part of your argument is silly. The second part is ignorant. I know that kid that is in this day and age is being called a redskin and that's at Norman high, of all places. If you're Native American, fine, you can have that opinion, but if you're not and you've never been made to feel inferior because of your appearance or skin color, then your opinion means squat because it's baseless.

Card carrying Cherokee, pal. You?

[olevetonahill]

Card carrying Cherokee, pal. You?


Im Part Black so I must be Jigsaw

[KantoSooner]

A Bob Marley quote is apropos here: "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

This great country of ours is, in spite of the efforts of bigots and missionaries, so damned Indian it's silly. Our food, our place names, a whole bunch of our blood and DNA and on and on. Including important concepts in our governmental system and constitution. Indian.

To walk around that on egg shells is silly. Most people describe themselves, in their own tongues as either 'The People' or something referring to the place they live. But many also identify by some physical characteristic. (for instance, 'The Blue Eyes' for Ainu people). I would suggest adopting the pose of our forefathers if such is used against you with ill intent: treat them the way The Yankees treated the Brits who taunted them with that label.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

"Native Americans" don't exist any more, there are only "native Americans".

[Eielson]

Are we going to change the Vikings mascot/logo now? As a man of Scandinavian descent, I suppose I'm supposed to act offended.

[badger]

Are we going to change the Vikings mascot/logo now? As a man of Scandinavian descent, I suppose I'm supposed to act offended.

As a Sooner, I'm offended that the Vikings are squandering Adrian Peterson's talent. Eielson, let's draw lots to see whose team gets him. I'd rather he be a Ram than a worthless pathetic Viking in a collapsable (whoops, I mean "inflatable") roofie roofed doom dome

[Widescreen]

It is, but everything I've read about Dan Snyder makes me think another billionaire temper tantrum is mounting. Here's hoping his personal assistant records the conversation and he tells her who she can and can't bring to "his games" :P

I hope it doesn't get changed because Harry Reid has already made pronouncements about not attending any games until they do change the name. I like politician temper tantrums, personally.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So because it's "disparaging to Native Americans (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/nfl/trademark-board-rules-against-washington-redskins-name/article_a152575f-188f-505c-bc41-815f0b0360e8.html)" the patent office ruled that the team's trademarks are going to get canceled.


Badg... You and the entire world knows that the great Chicago thug and arm twister has ordered the Patent Office to make this finding in order to put forth his life goals, the ones he can't get a Congress to act on or the people to vote on, so His Majesty The Leftist has ruled by decree. Just like everything he will do until he leaves office.

Oh, If I were the owner of the REDSKINS, I could give a rat's *** if Reid ever went to one of my team's games.

[sooneron]

Card carrying Cherokee, pal. You?

No card, my family members didn't want to get in line back then.

[Eielson]

I hope it doesn't get changed because Harry Reid has already made pronouncements about not attending any games until they do change the name. I like politician temper tantrums, personally.

The only logical conclusion is to force them to change their names to Washington Savages. Then we can get both tempter tantrums.

[Eielson]

As a Sooner, I'm offended that the Vikings are squandering Adrian Peterson's talent. Eielson, let's draw lots to see whose team gets him. I'd rather he be a Ram than a worthless pathetic Viking in a collapsable (whoops, I mean "inflatable") roofie roofed doom dome

If you get him, you have to promise to get rid of the cheeseheads. I have some family members that are lactose intolerant.

[badger]

If you get him, you have to promise to get rid of the cheeseheads. I have some family members that are lactose intolerant.

They're made of foam... but I guess that can be a choking hazard if you don't chew it into tiny bits before attempting to swallow.

Other teams that aren't allowed to have Adrian Peterson, nor any Sooner alums:
1- Jacksonville
2- Oakland
3- Houston

[picasso]

The term refers to bloody Indian scalps.
Originally it was meant to honor Tamany.

It's offensive.

[KantoSooner]

No card, my family members didn't want to get in line back then.

As my Chickasaw great granny didn't want to either. And I can understand that: "Hi, we're from the government. To help us help you, please show up, tell us a lot about where to find you and give us personal identification data. No reason not to trust us."

[picasso]

Card carrying Cherokee, pal. You?

Do you have a Cherokee tribal tag? Because if so you're probably a terrible driver.

[Widescreen]

The term refers to bloody Indian scalps.
Originally it was meant to honor Tamany.

It's offensive.
You mean Tammany Hall? That was named after an Indian.

[Eielson]

Do you have a Cherokee tribal tag? Because if so you're probably a terrible driver.

Better than Sac and Fox.

[picasso]

You mean Tammany Hall? That was named after an Indian.

Yeah, the Redskins were named originally to honor him.

It's offensive. It goes beyond political correctness.

[picasso]

Better than Sac and Fox.

Wrong. The worst are by far the Cherokees. I've been taking notes.
I have a Citizen Potawatomi tag.

[KantoSooner]

Do you have a Cherokee tribal tag? Because if so you're probably a terrible driver.

No I live in Osage County and the car has to 'live' in old Cherokee nation to get such a tag. I do like the tribal tags and cherish my memories of the early 1980's when OHP got repeatedly slammed in Federal Court ticketing people for no license who were driving on tribal tags. Happy Times.

[Speck]

I am deeply offended by the Fighting Irish, Celtics, Cowboys, Vikings and Sooners.

[KantoSooner]

I've been thinking and I'm prepared to come over to the side of hypersensitive PC. All I ask is that all towns named after the genocidists Jackson and Sherman be renamed. 'Adolf Coors' though demonstrably a distinct individual's name, is too close to that other Adolf. Change it to 'Sam' Coors; sounds more American, anyway. Expunge the slave abuser Thomas Jefferson from our national history texts. He wasn't THAT important, anyway. While we're at it, let's look at Tammany Hall. And the Irish. Notre Dame needs a new mascot, pronto. A drunken, bellicose, obviously Irish sort is simply not acceptable. I've long noted how the Celtic students of Notre Dame were repeatedly and ritually shamed by that little bastard's presence. And then there's the Celtics themselves. Gone with them, I demand! Either the mostly black players or the heavily Irish fans (in Boston) would logically have to be offended. The Braves? Please. The Seminoles? Oh, Dear! The Knickerbockers? And the Browns.....oh my.
I think I've got it, though. All that hideous old minded crap goes. We just take the first letter of the city in which the team is based and use that. Any Denver team therefore, becomes 'The Ds'. If there's more than one pro team, them delineate according to sport, 'The Football Ds' 'The Baseball Ws' and so forth. If you have a dispute between say San Francisco and San Diego, then flip a coin, one becomes the 'The Ss' and the other The S1s'.
See, we can rid ourselves of the hoary crust of racist/nationalist/political hatreds if we really try.

[REDREX]

Watch out Union High School you are next

[8timechamps]

I really wish there were a "I don't care option", but since that's not available I voted it should be cancelled. Here's my logic: If I see a Native American, and call that person a "redskin", that would be derogatory. So, by that definition, I think the name is derogatory.

That said, I don't really have a say in this issue. It doesn't affect me one way or another.

[Widescreen]

Honestly, if they change the name, I don't really care. I was more irritated when the same town's NBA team changed their name from the Bullets because that's just too violent sounding. :rolleyes:

[REDREX]

Lets go with the Washington Fighting Whities----We can say its named after underware

[okiewaker]

I wished he'd hurry and change the name to the Washington RedNecks. It'd make me proud.

[mainline13]

The term refers to bloody Indian scalps.
Originally it was meant to honor Tamany.

It's offensive.

I just did a little spot research on the etymology, and I saw nothing about scalps. Not saying that some, maybe even many, didn't make that connection; just saying that it is apparently not a widely-held view.

For myself, the solution should be simple. If you feel the term is offensive, then don't support the team in any way. Pretty soon - assuming that your opinion is widely held - their hand will be forced by the lack of profitability of the franchise. And if it doesn't turn out that way, then maybe most people don't feel the same way about the term.

If indeed the opinion of "redskin" as being a pejorative term is not widely held, then should the government be acting at all? Should we all be forced to have the "correct" opinions? I think not ... but your mileage may vary.

[swardboy]

gawd, aren't you people tired of the government getting into every bed in America yet?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Im Part Black so I must be Jigsaw

I think that's the funniest ****'n thing I've read in quite a while!!

[olevetonahill]

I think that's the funniest ****'n thing I've read in quite a while!!

Thank you, I was begining to wonder if this board had Lost all sense of humor.

[CatfishSooner]

gawd, aren't you people tired of the government getting into every bed in America yet?

yes, yes I am...

[Mazeppa]

While were at it let's change the conferences to the fbs and fcs so as not to make someone feel less important.

[picasso]

I just did a little spot research on the etymology, and I saw nothing about scalps. Not saying that some, maybe even many, didn't make that connection; just saying that it is apparently not a widely-held view.

For myself, the solution should be simple. If you feel the term is offensive, then don't support the team in any way. Pretty soon - assuming that your opinion is widely held - their hand will be forced by the lack of profitability of the franchise. And if it doesn't turn out that way, then maybe most people don't feel the same way about the term.

If indeed the opinion of "redskin" as being a pejorative term is not widely held, then should the government be acting at all? Should we all be forced to have the "correct" opinions? I think not ... but your mileage may vary.
Read some actual books and not an internet search. The origin has varying opinions but Redskin is believed by some as a reference to the skins on one's wall. Which were red, from blood.
I'm not an activist. But I'm also a guy with a lot of Native blood who happens to be white. I haven't had to deal with racism.

[EatLeadCommie]

The term refers to bloody Indian scalps.
Originally it was meant to honor Tamany.

It's offensive.

That's a myth about the bloody scalps.

Suggested reading for anybody curious about the origins of the word...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/12/18/redskins_the_debate_over_the_washington_football_t eam_s_name_incorrectly.html

[CatfishSooner]

Read some actual books and not an internet search. The origin has varying opinions but Redskin is believed by some as a reference to the skins on one's wall. Which were red, from blood.
I'm not an activist. But I'm also a guy with a lot of Native blood who happens to be white. I haven't had to deal with racism.

You do not know what you are talking about... who reads books these days anyway?

[picasso]

Wow, you posted a blog!

Read some books. Scalps were traded as currency and bought off the walls in retail shops.
Some say that's where the term came from. Some say it's simply a slang expression.

I just read where the Smithsonian is saying it's a myth. The same Smithsonian that until repatriation, housed thousands of Native artifacts, family items and even bodies, taken
from battlefields and grave sites.

[CatfishSooner]

Wow, you posted a blog!

Read some books. Scalps were traded as currency and bought off the walls in retail shops.
Some say that's where the term came from. Some say it's simply a slang expression.

I just read where the Smithsonian is saying it's a myth. The same Smithsonian that until repatriation, housed thousands of Native artifacts, family items and even bodies, taken
from battlefields and grave sites.

Did you read it?

What "books" are you referring to? TIA

[vtsooner21]

Everyone is just too thin-skinned these days and are always on the lookout for political incorrectness. I'm guessing it gives these folks a reason to be...Please know that if there were a team given the nickname of my heritage (partial) I would be honored. But as of yet, there is no team to my knowledge known as "The Poundin' Polocks"
Boomer (Is that permitted?)

[8timechamps]

gawd, aren't you people tired of the government getting into every bed in America yet?

This, in no way, affects me. Hell, it barely affects Washington fans. I pick my battles, and this isn't one of them.

[CatfishSooner]

Everyone is just too thin-skinned these days and are always on the lookout for political incorrectness. I'm guessing it gives these folks a reason to be...Please know that if there were a team given the nickname of my heritage (partial) I would be honored. But as of yet, there is no team to my knowledge known as "The Poundin' Polocks"
Boomer (Is that permitted?)

Permitted in my 'PC' book... but I prefer the "Pretty Polocks"....

[CatfishSooner]

This, in no way, affects me. Hell, it barely affects Washington fans. I pick my battles, and this isn't one of them.

If you can't stand up for something small, you won't stand up for something big...

[Turd_Ferguson]

If you can't stand up for something small, you won't stand up for something big...

That makes absolutely no ****ing sense.

[picasso]

Did you read it?

What "books" are you referring to? TIA

Yes I read it. The story is based on a study by a phd from the Smithsonian.
Mmmk. We're talking about colonial times here.
Scholars can't even agree on the reason why Custer's body wasn't mutilated at Little Bighorn. Did you know there are references to his having a Cheyenne mistress and some think her family protected his corpse?
Did you know another officer was untouched because of his impressive rosary he carried?
The Natives thought it was big medicine. Turns out the guy was a former member of the Pontifical Swiss Guard.
As I said. I'm not a big activist but most if the folks I know find it offensive. The mascot is not used in a respectful way. My hometown has an Indian mascot and the local Osages would fight you if you tried to change it. Why? Because it's done so honorably.
Which books? Geez I have crapload library of them. I make a living painting Natives.

[8timechamps]

If you can't stand up for something small, you won't stand up for something big...

I stand up for plenty big. I don't stand up for **** that doesn't affect me at all.

My official stance on this (as posted above) is that Washington should change it's name. Redskin is a slur, and I would never walk up to a native american and use that name. That's my stance on this "something small". However, since it doesn't affect me, my family, my community, our national safety, then no, I really don't care. My "stance" is posting this comment on a message board.

Besides, who has the time to get worked up over everything someone, somewhere is upset about? I don't.

[picasso]

8time, you just keep getting worked up over fast DE's. mmkk?

[picasso]

http://im1per.shutterfly.com/procsimple?imageID=0tYDSnXN4NdxAPusKz58sgFQdUcL4d0 mw0oLOG3nYo4Q5tnUOpNnn0Jx4zeGtCaH319emn.vjOMqIgrw. 5Spn8A&rotation=90&cropll=0.0,0.0&cropur=1.0,1.0&effect=Auto&DATA=v4XE3c9JgUvsBNWVOizmWviz2eVFU49ga-PDneXy3fnkMtjfEDh6aOQvrbY56gcOY-vKY61K481GtwmReDO7Re.tcMjp7j0skL&rendersize=fit200x200

Here's a little peak at my latest work. It's an homage to Natives who have served in the armed forces. This is half of the 48' x 48" painting.

Awight.

[olevetonahill]

2808

Here's a little peak at my latest work. It's an homage to Natives who have served in the armed forces. This is half of the 48' x 48" painting.

Awight.

Link dont werk

[Curly Bill]

I say people quit being a bunch of whiny beyotches and get a life!

[EatLeadCommie]

I voted should not, and here's why...

First, it didn't start out as a pejorative. That much really isn't debated. As the years have gone by, it has been used as one, but so has pretty much every descriptor of a different race. We think of "injun" as offensive nowadays, but really it just makes fun of rednecks trying to say "indian." To me, any word can be offensive given the context. Just as an example, if I say, "Oh, is Joe the black guy?" in response to a statement, that isn't offensive. But, if in response to the same statement I say, "Oh, is Joe that f-ing black guy?" it takes on a whole different meaning, and not just because of the f-bomb. Suddenly, the statement becomes inflammatory and potentially racist. I view redskin is the same way.

This group that has been bitching about the use of Redskin has been griping for years about any use of Indian imagery. They don't like Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, or any capitalizing off of natives. Now, on the surface, people might be able to draw a distinction between Braves or Chiefs as nonoffensive and Orangemen or Redskins as offensive. I understand that. One deals directly with color, and we as a society are absolutely obsessed with color and have our own shady past to deal with regarding it. But that's all it is. A reflex.

People freak out over White Settlement in Texas because of the name because it sounds like some Aryan Nation hangout-- like it is promoting racial superiority. In fact, it was a white settlement and safe haven in hostile indian country and that is how the name was given. People freak out over Redskins because of the opposite-- it sounds like it's disparaging American Indians. Of course, it isn't. Why would a team name itself something disparaging? It did what was common for the day and named itself after something with an admirable fighting spirit. Notre Dame did the same.

That it has become increasingly offensive over the years is due more to the false narrative created around the name's origins and false equivalency given to it as a slur on par with the n-word. People buy into it because it sounds right at face value. I can't get behind it because it is a false narrative, and now with it being politicized I hope the name stays forever (doubtful). It's just ridiculous that a bunch of idiot politicians should think their opinion should matter and then push out this decision from the trademark office to coincide with the commercial push in the NBA Finals. Absurd. It is one reason why I am happiest when Washington DC just shuts up and does nothing.

[picasso]

I can see both stances but I'm not going to judge the Natives that are against it because I haven't walked in their shoes.
Vet, sorry I will try to post that pic later or tomorrow. It didn't work from my tablet.

[vtsooner21]

Permitted in my 'PC' book... but I prefer the "Pretty Polocks"....OK; Now I'm offended!!! lol

Boomer

[olevetonahill]

I can see both stances but I'm not going to judge the Natives that are against it because I haven't walked in their shoes.
Vet, sorry I will try to post that pic later or tomorrow. It didn't work from my tablet.

Cool, Ive always enjoyed seeing yer stuff Bro.

[Widescreen]

It did what was common for the day and named itself after something with an admirable fighting spirit. Notre Dame did the same.



Which is why I hate Notre Dame. They make me feel like a drunken brute.

;)

[salth2o]

I voted Shouldnt Cause I think its a bunch of Horse shat!

I'm with you Vet!

[SoonerPride]

They should change the name because it's patently offensive.

Period.

[olevetonahill]

They should change the name because it's patently offensive.

Period.

Then Lets Change our State Name The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people.

[REDREX]

Then Lets Change our State Name The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people.---Good point------

[KantoSooner]

And don't forget anything named either Jackson or Sherman, those guys were both dedicated to genocide of all native americans, can't be honoring them. And so forth and so on.
Can I sit on the Committee to Clean Up America? I go cheap. Let's say $200,000/year, a tasty assistant, a corner block of a nice bank tower in either Tulsa or OKC (see? I'm flexible!), serious car allowance, say $600/mo with gas card, amex capped at $10,000/mo for entertainment and travel, plus actual expenses, of course. I'll get you a report every 60 days on the names that should be changed and the words that need to be expunged. And I'll look good doing it.

[SoonerPride]

They should change the name because it's patently offensive.

Period.

Then Lets Change our State Name The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people.

You and your straw men aren't worthy of my reply.

Have a nice day.

[olevetonahill]

You and your straw men aren't worthy of my reply.

Have a nice day.

Heh, Go **** yerself then.

[olevetonahill]

You and your straw men aren't worthy of my reply.

Have a nice day.

What about my Statement was Untrue?

[PrideMom]

With all of the problems this country has, and the news is on the name of a pro football team? Get real!

[picasso]

With all of the problems this country has, and the news is on the name of a pro football team? Get real!

Natives also have bigger problems but it's the team in our nation's capitol. I can kunda understand the argument.

[picasso]

http://im1per.shutterfly.com/procsimple?imageID=0tYDSnXN4NdxAPusKz58sgFQdUcL4d0 mw0oLOG3nYo4Q5tnUOpNnn0Jx4zeGtCaH319emn.vjOMqIgrw. 5Spn8A&rotation=90&cropll=0.0,0.0&cropur=1.0,1.0&effect=Auto&DATA=v4XE3c9JgUvsBNWVOizmWviz2eVFU49ga-PDneXy3fnkMtjfEDh6aOQvrbY56gcOY-vKY61K481GtwmReDO7Re.tcMjp7j0skL&rendersize=fit200x200

Here's a little peak at my latest work. It's an homage to Natives who have served in the armed forces. This is half of the 48' x 48" painting.

Awight.
There ya go Vet.

[Eielson]

They should change the name because it's patently offensive.

Period.

The poll says 28-5 against you. Your excessive use of periods doesn't change that.

[olevetonahill]

There ya go Vet.

Looks Good bro.

[CatfishSooner]

Natives also have bigger problems but it's the team in our nation's capitol. I can kunda understand the argument.

GTF over it picasso you pansy...

[picasso]

GTF over it picasso you pansy...
I'm over it Catfish. You inbred fish ****er.

[Curly Bill]

What about my Statement was Untrue?

You didn't follow the pansy-a** narrative - thus untrue. ;)

[olevetonahill]

You didn't follow the pansy-a** narrative - thus untrue. ;)

oh i see, Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways. I will strive to do better in future.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

He should change the name from the Redskins to the Engines and be done with it.

[olevetonahill]

It aint over yet, they been there before and are appealing.


Controversy regarding the name and logo
See also: Washington Redskins name controversy, Native American mascot controversy, and Redskin

Some consider the name and logo of the Washington Redskins to be racist.[67] Polls have shown a variety of results. For example, a 2013 USA Today poll found widespread support for the Redskins name. The poll indicated that 79 percent of Americans polled believed that the Redskins should keep their name.[7] Likewise, an October 2013 study by market research firm Survata found that just 19 percent of respondents supported a name change for the Redskins, while 30% did not, and 51% had no opinion.[8] In contrast, in 2001, Indian Country Today conducted a poll of an undisclosed number of readers reporting that "81 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian names, symbols and mascots are predominantly offensive and deeply disparaging to Native Americans."[68] A 2014 AP poll showed that 83% felt the team should keep its name[69]

There have been movements by certain groups to change the name,[70] but the attempts have been unsuccessful thus far. Others make the case in defense that the Redskins name is intended to honor the bravery and dignity of American Indians,[71] and that, regardless of past usage, the word redskins today refers to the football team. Notwithstanding the protests of activists, a 2002 poll commissioned by Sports Illustrated found that 75% of those American Indians surveyed had no objection to the Redskins name.[72] The results of the poll have been criticized by American Indian activists due to Sports Illustrated's refusal to provide polling information (i.e. how participants were recruited and contacted, if they were concentrated in one region, if one ethnic group is over-represented, and the exact wording and order of questions).[73][74] But in 2004, a poll by the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania supported the prior poll's findings, concluding that 91% of the American Indians surveyed in the 48 states on the mainland USA found the name acceptable and setting out in detail the exact wording of the questions.[75] In 2013, a letter was written by 10 members of Congress, to team owner Dan Snyder, asking him to consider changing the name of the mascot.[76] Snyder insists that "We will never change the name of the team."[77] Despite this, several NFL insiders have spoken their opinions that the name should be changed, including Richard Sherman,[78] Jason Taylor,[79] and Mike Holmgren.[80]

In 1992, a group of American Indians led by Suzan Harjo filed Harjo et al v. Pro Football, Inc. to have the United States trademarks associated with the Redskins name canceled under statutes which prevent registration of disparaging terms. The Trademark Trial and Appeal Board in 1999 ruled in favor of the petition and canceled the trademarks. Following appeals, in 2005, the D.C. Court of Appeals in Pro-Football, Inc. v. Harjo reversed the cancellation, ruling that there was insufficient evidence to support the finding of disparagement and holding that the majority of the petitioners were barred by laches from maintaining the suit.[81] Had the cancellation of the trademark been successful, the team could have still used the name, and it still would have had enforceable trademark rights under state and local laws. It would thus have been able to prevent others from using its marks on promotional goods, such as jackets and caps. It would, however, have lost various benefits of federal trademark registration, such as the ability to enlist the aid of the U.S. Customs Service to seize infringing imports at the border. On May 15, 2009, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit affirmed an earlier ruling that the American Indians had waited too long to challenge the trademark. The trademark was registered in 1967. American Indians successfully convinced the court to reconsider, based on one of the plaintiffs, Mateo Romero, being only one year old in 1967 and turning 18 in 1984. The court decision affirmed that, even accepting the 1984 date, the American Indians had still waited too long for the 1992 challenge.[82] In November 2009, in Harjo v. Pro-Football, Inc., Case No. 08-327, the U.S. Supreme Court declined certiorari and refused to hear the Indian group's appeal. A second case, Blackhorse et al v. Football, Inc., making the same arguments but with younger petitioners not barred by laches, has been scheduled to be heard by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board.[83][84] Blackhorse v. Pro Football, Inc. is unique in two ways the fact that the case is pending, not in a federal court, but in the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board, the administrative tribunal of the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Losing an opposition or cancellation proceeding does not mean that a trademark owner has to stop using its mark; it denies registration of the marks – which can be a significant penalty, for marks, like at issue in the Blackhorse case, that are used primarily for licensing purpose. The second noteworthy aspect of the case, which is that the federal Trademark Act is the only intellectual property statute that includes what amounts to a censorship clause. It provides for denial of registration to material that:…consists of or comprises immoral, deceptive, or scandalous matter; or matter which may disparage or falsely suggest a connection with persons, living or dead, institutions, beliefs, or national symbols, or bring them into contempt, or disrepute…15 U.S.C. § 1052(a).[85]

In 2014 Eradicating Offensive Native Mascotry (EONM) began engaging in an ongoing campaign to change the name, forming out of the Twitter campaign that was timed to coincide with Super Bowl XLVIII.[86] During the Twitter storm, activists tweeted using the tag #NotYourMascot in order to raise awareness for the issue, and the tag trended.[87]

On June 18, 2014 the United States Patent and Trademark Office cancelled the Washington Redskins trademark for a second time, saying that the name is “disparaging to Native Americans.”[88] Bob Raskopf, the Redskins trademark attorney, released a statement saying they plan to appeal the ruling. Raskopf claims the Trademark and Patent office lacked substantial evidence to back their claim that the Redskins name was disparaging to Native Americans, as well as the tribes petitioning for the name change. He also claimed that while the appeal process is going on, the trademark will remain valid.[89]

[8timechamps]

http://im1per.shutterfly.com/procsimple?imageID=0tYDSnXN4NdxAPusKz58sgFQdUcL4d0 mw0oLOG3nYo4Q5tnUOpNnn0Jx4zeGtCaH319emn.vjOMqIgrw. 5Spn8A&rotation=90&cropll=0.0,0.0&cropur=1.0,1.0&effect=Auto&DATA=v4XE3c9JgUvsBNWVOizmWviz2eVFU49ga-PDneXy3fnkMtjfEDh6aOQvrbY56gcOY-vKY61K481GtwmReDO7Re.tcMjp7j0skL&rendersize=fit200x200

Here's a little peak at my latest work. It's an homage to Natives who have served in the armed forces. This is half of the 48' x 48" painting.

Awight.

Awesome. As usual.

[nativesooner]

The bloody scalp thing isn't just a "myth". Just because you googled some blogs and couldn't find it, doesn't mean it wasn't part of our lost history. Folks were paid good money to kill "Indians" and instead of having to drag a corpse in, they turned in their bloody scalps for payment and resale. This definition of "red skins" can pretty much be considered offensive. Now the majority of you folks whining that it isn't offensive are using the, "because they tan so well" definition, which is another definition yes, but I agree it is NOT offensive. Nor are other definitions like a certain tribe wore a pretty red dress for the first day of Spring or a another tribe had ruby red lips from eating cherry blow-pops.

That being said, I would likely vote “no” to the name change. Why? Because I, like most Native Americans I know, don't give a sh*t about what Washington's sorry azz team is named. Now, I did say MOST don't care. If you surveyed 100 Indians, 99 would probably say they could care less. But that one that does would get the biggest spotlight and the biggest bullhorn to tell why. Just like with Little Red, the small faction with the biggest voice will usually win. I do understand why some think it's offensive, but I also understand why some don't.

When this team was named, it wasn't named to honor anyone or any Indian. I highly doubt the owner thought of bloody scalps when he named the team. And if he didn't name them after any Indians, he probably didn't care what color they were. It was simply a business decision because the owner needed a replacement for "Braves". Offensive? About as offensive as their team was last year.

Our State's name is in fact Choctaw, which means a people, nation, or tribe, and the color red, crimson or rouge. Should this be changed because of humma meaning red? No... but if Okla - Humma translated to "bloody red savage skins", I can see some folks being a little upset about it wanting it changed. It's ignorant to think our states name should be changed now because of the term red. It's also ignorant to think a group of Vikings or drunk Irish folks are going to show up at the White House bitching about Minnesota or Notre Dame. If they do, they'll get a mic as well.

Whether the name is changed or not doesn't matter to me personally. If it is changed though, I think it should be something more appropriate to Washington these days. Of course, if they chose the wrong name, someone might get offended and want IT changed as well. If that happens, you guys can start another huge thread on a team that no one around here cares about….

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/nativesooner/puppets_zps35e97918.jpg

[picasso]

Native, there's a chronology somewhere I read that traces the root if it back to Tammany. I do agree that it's the fringe activists that are always the most worked up over these things.
There's also a photo floating around of a few Navajo code talkers dressed in Redskin garb.

[olevetonahill]

Native, there's a chronology somewhere I read that traces the root if it back to Tammany. I do agree that it's the fringe activists that are always the most worked up over these things.
There's also a photo floating around of a few Navajo code talkers dressed in Redskin garb.

This one?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/996064_631612510232215_568935654_n.jpg

[nativesooner]

There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!

[olevetonahill]

There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!

Yall keep talking about this Bloody Scalp thing , I never heard it so Give a Link and not just rumor ok?
Growing up I watched a LOT of Cowboys and Indians shows and never once heard about the scalp deal .

[nativesooner]

It's not a rumor, just another lost piece of history that no one wants to talk about. Not everything is on the net, and we can't provide links to elders mouths.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/nativesooner/paper_zps9ed73118.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/nativesooner/scalped_zps4c8e6c06.jpg

[picasso]

There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!
That's kinda what I thought about that photo too. But I wouldn't put that crap on if I found it offensive.
That's just me.

[picasso]

Yall keep talking about this Bloody Scalp thing , I never heard it so Give a Link and not just rumor ok?
Growing up I watched a LOT of Cowboys and Indians shows and never once heard about the scalp deal .

Vet, some things are in history books. Not intranet links.

[olevetonahill]

Vet, some things are in history books. Not intranet links.

Bro I can understand that. Yet if its so little Known how can anyone say that it affects how they feel about a football team? If it Offends YOU , then by all means attempt to change it. It seems to be working.

As for the Whites takin Indian scalps I would venture a guess that there were More Indians taking White scalps.

[8timechamps]

There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!

Exactly.

If Snyder/the NFL wanted to put an end to this once and for all, they would organize a comprehensive study/group that included native tribes across the country, then abide by the findings. Rather than trotting out a few natives in football gear, they could get an actual pulse from the affected people. Of course, that might mean ditching the name, which Snyder doesn't want (because he has painted himself in a corner now).

As with anything, this is going to come down to money. IF advertisers decide they don't want to associate with the Redskin name, and pull out, Snyder will change the name in a second. Otherwise, this will continue on as it has.

[cvsooner]

Unless the league as a whole rises up against him, a la Sterling and the Clippers in the NBA. I suspect the name will be discarded as it should be. There was a time and a place for it. No longer.

[Eielson]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/nativesooner/paper_zps9ed73118.jpg

This doesn't support your false claim.

"$200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory"

In that context, "red-skin" clearly means Indian. Not Indian scalps.

[nativesooner]

This doesn't support your false claim.

"$200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory"

In that context, "red-skin" clearly means Indian. Not Indian scalps.

Vet wanted a visual and that's all I had in my 1800's folder on the ipad. Nowhere did I say, "here's proof!" Talk to some of the tribal elders of the Kiowa, Comanche, or Apache tribes and ask them what that term means to them. Grow up in a town that's 60-70% Indian like I have and you'll hear all kinds of stories that aren't in the US History books we thumbed through in school. Throughout the years, I've heard different definitions of the term, including bloody red scalps. I know some of you guys desperately want to pound your chest and tell us Indians how dumb we are for being offended, but it's obviously some are... no matter what definition you give.

[Eielson]

Vet wanted a visual and that's all I had in my 1800's folder on the ipad. Nowhere did I say, "here's proof!" Talk to some of the tribal elders of the Kiowa, Comanche, or Apache tribes and ask them what that term means to them. Grow up in a town that's 60-70% Indian like I have and you'll hear all kinds of stories that aren't in the US History books we thumbed through in school. Throughout the years, I've heard different definitions of the term, including bloody red scalps. I know some of you guys desperately want to pound your chest and tell us Indians how dumb we are for being offended, but it's obviously some are... no matter what definition you give.

I've taken multiple classes on Native Americans at the college level, and I know more than I ever wanted to know about atrocities committed by white people. I know that history is misrepresented over and over and it's rarely in favor of American Indians. This Redskins thing is based on nothing, though. If you want to say the Redskins have no right to use the Indian image without consent of Indians, then fine. I don't necessarily agree, but you're welcome to disagree with me, and I can kind of see your side of the story. If you try to make this into scalp slur issue, then you're either misinformed, or more likely, a manipulative liar. There is absolutely no way to definitely say that's where the root of the word came from. In fact, the opposite is much more verifiable. I'm sure you can find an elder that will tell you things like that. You can also find elders that will tell you that certain members of the tribe can split large tornadoes. It's completely unverifiable, and should have no influence in the legal setting.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I could go along with a name change, if it was to The Larcenists, or The Larceny. The Bandits would be acceptable, or the Frauds, maybe.

The Totalitarians.

[nativesooner]

I've taken multiple classes on Native Americans at the college level, and I know more than I ever wanted to know about atrocities committed by white people. I know that history is misrepresented over and over and it's rarely in favor of American Indians. This Redskins thing is based on nothing, though. If you want to say the Redskins have no right to use the Indian image without consent of Indians, then fine. I don't necessarily agree, but you're welcome to disagree with me, and I can kind of see your side of the story. If you try to make this into scalp slur issue, then you're either misinformed, or more likely, a manipulative liar. There is absolutely no way to definitely say that's where the root of the word came from. In fact, the opposite is much more verifiable. I'm sure you can find an elder that will tell you things like that. You can also find elders that will tell you that certain members of the tribe can split large tornadoes. It's completely unverifiable, and should have no influence in the legal setting.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."


Based on nothing? Yeah right! Live the **** and tell me it's not a slur whether it means skin color, scalps, face paint, red bandanas, whatever! I've taken a few post HS cooking classes but I'm not a sous chef in Paris! I said there were a few different definitions! Dear God, or wait, "great spirit of the sky", I'm agreeing with everyone yet you want to talk **** and call me a damn liar? Like I said, I think they should keep the damn name! Not because "ohhhhh we should be honored", not because "they really weren't trying to be negative when they picked that name", because I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TEAM! It's obvious some Native Americans don't like the name of this team. Will they win in court, who knows? If not, you can come back here and tell everyone you were right!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I don't have a dog in this one... But the Native Americans were not the peaceful, platonic people that many seem to think they were... They all have violence in their lineage and nothing over the "white" man.

I am of Viking ancestry... I should sue the Minnesota team for disparaging my lineage... I wants a lottery win...

This whole team name stuff is stupid and too PC. Brink back Chief Nokahoma, Little Red, et al.

[nativesooner]

I don't have a dog in this one... But the Native Americans were not the peaceful, platonic people that many seem to think they were... They all have violence in their lineage and nothing over the "white" man.

I am of Viking ancestry... I should sue the Minnesota team for disparaging my lineage... I wants a lottery win...

This whole team name stuff is stupid and too PC. Brink back Chief Nokahoma, Little Red, et al.

If you are Viking, gather up a small group of other Vikings and the media will give you a HUGE platform. If you sue and win though, please use the money to buy AD a line! haha!

[Eielson]

Based on nothing? Yeah right! Live the **** and tell me it's not a slur whether it means skin color, scalps, face paint, red bandanas, whatever! I've taken a few post HS cooking classes but I'm not a sous chef in Paris! I said there were a few different definitions! Dear God, or wait, "great spirit of the sky", I'm agreeing with everyone yet you want to talk **** and call me a damn liar? Like I said, I think they should keep the damn name! Not because "ohhhhh we should be honored", not because "they really weren't trying to be negative when they picked that name", because I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TEAM! It's obvious some Native Americans don't like the name of this team. Will they win in court, who knows? If not, you can come back here and tell everyone you were right!

I'm not talking about a random cooking class, and it's not my fault that you didn't take advantage of your classes to become a talented chef. I'm talking about spending hundreds of hours with major people in the Keetoowah and Creek tribes, going to language fairs, film festivals, pow-wows, etc. I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly well-versed in the sufferings of American Indians. I don't deny that white people were paid by the US government to kill Indians, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that Redskins was a reference to scalped Indian heads. I have every reason to believe that the term Redskins referred to the whole Indian body, and not just it's bloody, unattached head. I went harsher than I usually do in calling you a potentially manipulative liar in hopes that you would actually present some legitimate evidence to support your stance. I'm open to changing my stance, but you've given me no reason to.

[Eielson]

I don't have a dog in this one... But the Native Americans were not the peaceful, platonic people that many seem to think they were... They all have violence in their lineage and nothing over the "white" man.

I am of Viking ancestry... I should sue the Minnesota team for disparaging my lineage... I wants a lottery win...

This whole team name stuff is stupid and too PC. Brink back Chief Nokahoma, Little Red, et al.

I know you're joking with the Viking thing, as was I, but I honestly think there is more there than with the Redskins. For instance, to my knowledge, there is absolutely no evidence that Viking helmets ever actually had horns on them. It's likely that the depiction of those helmets came from monks in churches they raided who wished to portray them as satanic. I'd never try to get rid of the Vikings mascot, though.

[nativesooner]

I'm not talking about a random cooking class, and it's not my fault that you didn't take advantage of your classes to become a talented chef. I'm talking about spending hundreds of hours with major people in the Keetoowah and Creek tribes, going to language fairs, film festivals, pow-wows, etc. I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly well-versed in the sufferings of American Indians. I don't deny that white people were paid by the US government to kill Indians, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that Redskins was a reference to scalped Indian heads. I have every reason to believe that the term Redskins referred to the whole Indian body, and not just it's bloody, unattached head. I went harsher than I usually do in calling you a potentially manipulative liar in hopes that you would actually present some legitimate evidence to support your stance. I'm open to changing my stance, but you've given me no reason to.

I've spent over 40 years BEING an actual Native American. I didn't take any classes, write any papers, go to any public pow-wows with a notebook and camera "learning" the Indian ways like you. I know you keep saying I'm only giving the bloody scalp definition, but if you will read more than what you want from my post, I also said that one definition is dress while another is color of the skin. Can you provide any concrete evidence that it's one of the three and not the others? NO. Despite your claim, I'm not trying to convince all the white people here that the only meaning was bloody scalp (not detached head like you mentioned). I'm just giving ONE of the definitions I heard growing up with MAJOR Natives. I also said that I WOULD NOT change the damn name. I don't know why you think I'm trying to manipulate people into thinking the way I do when I feel the same way most here do. No matter what the definition truly is, it's still a slur and some find it offensive. It wasn't made to honor anyone. Am I offended by it? Not really. Do I think others should be? No. For someone who's a self proclaimed "honorary friend to the NDN's cuz I took some classes on them", you sure talk a lot of sh*t! Did they not offer you any peyote at the sweat? Here's some reading material for any of you. Does any of it offend me? No...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/12/18/redskins_the_debate_over_the_washington_football_t eam_s_name_incorrectly.html

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/true-redskins-meaning

[picasso]

You haven't done real sweat until you try it in August, with a 6'5" Osage. Heh.

[Eielson]

I've spent over 40 years BEING an actual Native American. I didn't take any classes, write any papers, go to any public pow-wows with a notebook and camera "learning" the Indian ways like you.

Congrats on being an Indian. You must know everything there is to know about Indians. I'm white, so I guess I know everything about whites. Since we're talking about a word white people used, this is my domain, correct? I'm white, and I say that whites didn't use Redskin as a reference to scalps. Is that how this works? Apparently, you're not white, or at least didn't grow up in a predominately white area, so you don't have a say in this matter.

Also, not taking classes, writing papers, doing your own research doesn't strengthen your claim as an authority. It weakens it. I also didn't go to the pow-wows or any other event because I was forced to. I went on my own, and didn't take a notebook or camera. I also wasn't basing everything I know just off that class (although I think that's enough). I could go into more detail about how my best friend growing up was Indian, my Godfather is Indian, etc., but I'm sure you'd find ways to butcher those facts just like everything else.


For someone who's a self proclaimed "honorary friend to the NDN's cuz I took some classes on them", you sure talk a lot of sh*t!

I never claimed to be an honorary friend to Indians.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/12/18/redskins_the_debate_over_the_washington_football_t eam_s_name_incorrectly.html

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/true-redskins-meaning

Congratulations on finally posting something on here to support your claim...no matter how weak it is. I didn't read that very thoroughly, because they seemed to be opinion pieces with little, if any, more credibility than your posts in this thread. I've still yet to see any record of Redskin being used to refer to scalps. Like I said, I'm open to being corrected, but I'm losing hope that you can provide anything of value.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Of course it is horsesh*t that the US Trademarks office, or any entity other than the owner of the trademark, would have the legal right to cancel the trademark due to political correctness.

[nativesooner]

Congrats on being an Indian. You must know everything there is to know about Indians.

Nope, but for some damn reason you think you know more than ANYONE on this board about them. "Nahh, it's not derogatory! They like it! No really, they do.. I know some Indians and they said it's cool so ALL Indians must feel the same way!"


I'm white, and I say that whites didn't use Redskin as a reference to scalps.

Again, skin color, bloody scalp color, face paint color, fat brown man.... for whatever reason a few Natives find the word offensive whether you think they should or not.


Also, not taking classes, writing papers, doing your own research doesn't strengthen your claim as an authority. It weakens it.

Grow up with a bunch of Indians and you'll learn more than you can find in most books! I've taken college classes as well. Some taught me new things, some regurgitated things I already knew.


I could go into more detail about how my best friend growing up was Indian, my Godfather is Indian, etc.

I too have Indian friends and family... But hey, you're the only expert!


I didn't read that very thoroughly, because they seemed to be opinion pieces

Which happen to be exactly like your posts... opinion pieces... which for some reason you chose to get defensive over even though people agree with you!

This kind of sh*t is the reason I cringe when stuff like this comes up every few years. Everyone has their own opinion on whether or not the dumb, casino running Indians should be offended they've become a novelty. The debate on this crap spreads more hate than the actual issue itself. I know you desperately want to get on your grandstand and tell everyone your opinion is the only one that should matter but get the hell over yourself. You're no more of an expert than any of us on here and guess what, NONE of our opinions count. When Snyder's lawyers patch things up with the tribes and the name remains the same, you can come back here and tell everyone you were right.

[picasso]

You can't kearn much at a pow wow. Unless you're studying various dance and costume styles.
Go to a stomp dance or an Osage in lon schka dance.

I'm going to venture to say that Native and myself might be a bit closer to the sensitivity of some of these issues.
I still think Redskin is bull**** for a mascot but I like some of the others.

[Eielson]

Nope, but for some damn reason you think you know more than ANYONE on this board about them. "Nahh, it's not derogatory! They like it! No really, they do.. I know some Indians and they said it's cool so ALL Indians must feel the same way!"

I didn't say most of these things.


Which happen to be exactly like your posts... opinion pieces...

I said that I've never seen historical documentation of the term "redskin" referring to a bloody scalp. Do you want to me to post every single time the term "redskin" was used in a historical document? I'd post some examples of how redskin was used and didn't refer to bloody scalp, but you beat me to it. All I ask of you is to post reputable evidence that redskin was used as a reference to bloody scalps, and you've yet to do it. At this point, I'm beginning to think you can't.

[picasso]

Did you know that Miami chief Little Turtle had a bigger defeat on the U.S. than did Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse? And George Washington was involved in the battle.
You probably haven't seen much historical documentation on that either.

[PrideMom]

The term "Redskin" actually is what it means. The Native American: Alquaquin (please forgive the spelling), Cree, Erie, etc. actually have a copper sheen. But "Redskin" could actually apply to anyone exposed to the sun too long. I always thought the emblem on the helmets was to represent bravery, strength, and toughness. I would be more offended with the Cleveland Indians trademark, where the image is like a cartoon. Were the Native Americans also offended on being on the nickel? Or would they want it on a higher coin, like a quarter?

[picasso]

If you want to get into detail about it. An eagle feather headdress or bonnet is a religious item worn by it's owner for protection or ritual. It could also be a status symbol. Each feather earned by deeds in the community or in battle.
The equivalent would be a Notre Dame helmet with a Pope hat on it.
Is that gonna happen?

[Eielson]

Did you know that Miami chief Little Turtle had a bigger defeat on the U.S. than did Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse? And George Washington was involved in the battle.
You probably haven't seen much historical documentation on that either.

No evidence to support the bloody scalp claim, either? As I've repeatedly stated, all I want is something to back your claims. I'm not even saying it doesn't exist. I just want somebody to show me.

[picasso]

You can't look for yourself? As I've said, I've seen it mentioned before.
Vet talked about scalps being made by Indians. The practice actually originated in the Middle East and in Europe.
Not all tribes practiced in it.

[Eielson]

You can't look for yourself? As I've said, I've seen it mentioned before.
Vet talked about scalps being made by Indians. The practice actually originated in the Middle East and in Europe.
Not all tribes practiced in it.

I know scalping existed. I just haven't found any reason to believe the term Redskins referred to bloody scalps.

[FaninAma]

So what constitutes being "Native American"? A CDIB card? What if you are 1/64th? How about 1/128th? 1/256th? 1/512th?

IMO, most of the BIA programs are just another government entitlement.

If you limited it to those who are 1/16th or more their budget would be reduced drastically.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Of course it is horsesh*t that the US Trademarks office, or any entity other than the owner of the trademark, would have the legal right to cancel the trademark due to political correctness.This is the crux of the matter.

[picasso]

So what constitutes being "Native American"? A CDIB card? What if you are 1/64th? How about 1/128th? 1/256th? 1/512th?

IMO, most of the BIA programs are just another government entitlement.

If you limited it to those who are 1/16th or more their budget would be reduced drastically.

Some tribes don't recognize. I also know folks who are a large degree bit their people never got them enrolled.
I'm oficially 1/8 Potawatomi bit ams the same degree Menominee. And have Kickapoo and Lakota blood.
Honky.

[picasso]

This is the crux of the matter.

Yep. The punishment should be in the free market. Not by the gull damn government.

[Ton Loc]

Way too many white people determining what is and isn't "racist." Let the Native Americans decide. And if they can't come to an agreement...

Actually - IDGAS...I can't get all false outraged about something that has zero effect on me.

[PrideMom]

Scalping still exists! Go to a casino, they are getting their revenge! Try buying an OU/TX ticket if you don't have one.

[nativesooner]

Go to a casino, they are getting their revenge!


This has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said PM! And here I thought better of you. SMH!

[olevetonahill]

Scalping still exists! Go to a casino, they are getting their revenge! Try buying an OU/TX ticket if you don't have one.

Making a Joke about something that is so violent is offensive!

[PrideMom]

A history lesson: Did you know it was the French fur trappers (back before we were the United States) that started the scalping rumors, and the Native American just obliged to make the rumors true. But not ALL Native Americans did it, and the term "Red Skin" does NOT refer to scalping.

[Widescreen]

So are all us men racists too?

[sooneron]

A history lesson: Did you know it was the French fur trappers (back before we were the United States) that started the scalping rumors, and the Native American just obliged to make the rumors true. But not ALL Native Americans did it, and the term "Red Skin" does NOT refer to scalping.

Yes it does

[sooneron]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3878/14375379710_0c304cc5ef_s.jpg

[bluedogok]

How about the Washington *********s? They could have alternate logos....

http://www.colonialmedical.com/images/detailed/p_846_1326985743.jpghttp://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/John-Boehner-Harry-Reid-Split-Fullwell-600x350.jpg

[okierider]

We have real issues that need our attention , like cancer and bad government!! These endless debates about words are silly !
If your going to get on your soapbox , pick a real issue like wasteful government or the proliferation of gang violence in our streets!
I have been called whitebread,cracker,and rednek ,
All my life.. I am still here and enjoying my life.

[PrideMom]

We have real issues that need our attention , like cancer and bad government!! These endless debates about words are silly !
If your going to get on your soapbox , pick a real issue like wasteful government or the proliferation of gang violence in our streets!
I have been called whitebread,cracker,and rednek ,
All my life.. I am still here and enjoying my life.

I think it is just a smoke screen on the REAL things that our country has not been taking care of. Just heard on the news last night that the President is NOT going to extend additional money for the infra-structure to repair our crumbling roads, but wants another $500 million (which means billion) for Syria, who hates our guts!

[okierider]

Rut- roh , Mom brings up a real world issue !! BRAVO!!
Give money to religious fanatics that hate us!! Then when the civil matter in Syria quiets down they use the money we give them to fund more terrorists !!
That sounds like something that could actually hurt someone!!
But we get to hear about " Redskins
" !!!! Can't see the world through the BS. In our eyes