How Many Here Believe The Obama Administration When They Claim

[FaninAma]

They reached their goal of signing up 7 million legitimate patients on Obamacare by March 31st?

[rock on sooner]

I can't think of a reason not to believe it. Clearly, you do or you wouldn't
ask, I guess. Serious question here, were you also skeptical about Medicare?
That program also had lots of glitches in its roll out, took a couple of years
to straighten out, I think, but there wasn't a lot of repeal talk, though, at
least not 50 attempts in the House....

[FaninAma]

I can't think of a reason not to believe it. Clearly, you do or you wouldn't
ask, I guess. Serious question here, were you also skeptical about Medicare?
That program also had lots of glitches in its roll out, took a couple of years
to straighten out, I think, but there wasn't a lot of repeal talk, though, at
least not 50 attempts in the House....
Oh, a couple of things they've said would give me some pause about accepting this at face value like "If you like your policy you can keep your policy" and the 38 unilateral changes Obama has made to the law.

I will say this. If it is shown that they lied or misled the nation yet again about this fiasco of a program the Democrats are toast in the next 2 elections.

If it is discovered that they lied or misled the nation once again and they suffer no severe consequences from the electorate then those of us who expect at leadt a modicum of honesty and competency from the govern,ent should be very afraid for the future of this nation.

I say this as a person who totally distrusts and dislikes the establishment Republican Party after they gave us GWB.

At whatoint would the lying and misleading cause you to turn on the Democratic party?

[diverdog]

If they truly have 7 million signed up it is going to be hard to get rid of Obamacare.

[rock on sooner]

Oh, a couple of things they've said would give me some pause about accepting this at face value like "If you like your policy you can keep your policy" and the 38 unilateral changes Obama has made to the law.

I will say this. If it is shown that they lied or misled the nation yet again about this fiasco of a program the Democrats are toast in the next 2 elections.

If it is discovered that they lied or misled the nation once again and they suffer no severe consequences from the electorate then those of us who expect at leadt a modicum of honesty and competency from the govern,ent should be very afraid for the future of this nation.

I say this as a person who totally distrusts and dislikes the establishment Republican Party after they gave us GWB.

At whatoint would the lying and misleading cause you to turn on the Democratic party?



I haven't turned on the Dems and I continue to dislike ANYTHING that GWB did/said
or even thought. With him, Cheney and Rove involved, nearly irreparable harm has been
done to this country. The ACA is minor, even any spin that the Dems did, to sell it.

In the end, that program will help so many people and keep the insurance industry
in line, that down the road we will all be better. Did 7.1 million sign up, plus 6 or so
million more on Medicaid? We can only hope...26 year olds and younger still on their
parents' plan, millions saving even more millions on their drug scripts, no one being
denied for preexisting conditions, slowest health care cost growth year over year ever
and, eventually, health care for all at a reasonable cost. All the GOP angst over this,
because that devil Obama did it! Wow, he copied that Mass governor's plan, after HE
condemned it! What is remarkable is that the GOP have a LOT of ideas that the Dems
copied over the years, tweaked a little and put in place...all for the betterment of the
populace...really ticked off the right...like McConnell (he that vowed a one term Obama),
Boehner (he who couldn't/can't control his caucus) and the Tea Partiers, whose only
mission appears to be to inhibit government functions in general. The right still functions
with "shout it often enough and loud enough, veracity notwithstanding, the people will
believe it".

I've been around since before Ike, but I didn't pay much attention until Ike, so I feel I
can offer an opinion with some validity. In all those years, never have I seen such
utter childishness in our leaders and complete lack of cooperation on both sides! A even
greater distress is that I don't see any improvement any time soon!

Yup, I'm a Dem but our side bears blame, too...no way around it...so dayum frustrating...

[FaninAma]

So why am I not suprised that supporters of the Democrats care little if those they vote for are liars. Just as long as they keep handing out the goodies.

Rock on, you have no clue how much those in the medical field hate what Obama is doing. A recent survey said that 80% of primary care doctors will likely retire earlier as a result of this law. The shortage of primary care providers is going to be absolutely devestating over the next 10 years.

Repeat this to yourself over and over again. Helath care coverage does not mean health care access. I will make you a guarantee that this will be a huge issue starting as early as next year.

Diver, it all depends on who compromises the 7.2 million. I don't believe they have 7.2 million legitimate paying customers. Obama is a pathological liar. I will make you a bet right now that with the actuarial mix of those that signed up the insurance companies will be screaming about losing money starting and premium costs will rise dramatically early next year conveniently after the election.

[Sooner8th]

So why am I not suprised that supporters of the Democrats care little if those they vote for are liars. Just as long as they keep handing out the goodies.

Rock on, you have no clue how much those in the medical field hate what Obama is doing. A recent survey said that 80% of primary care doctors will likely retire earlier as a result of thos law. The shortage of primary care providers is going to be absolutely devestating over the next 10 years.

repeat this to yourself over and over again. Helath care coverage does not mean health care access. I will make you a guarantee that this will be a huge issue starting as early as next year.

Diver, it all depends on who compromises the 7.2 million. I don't believe they have 7.2 million legitimate paying customers. Obama is a pathological liar. I will make you a bet right now that with the actuarial mix of those that signed up the insurance companies will be screaming about losing money starting early next year.....conveniently after the election.

So we can assume that you didn't vote for bush I after read my lips no new taxes and bush II after the surplus was turned into a deficit and there were no WMD in Iraq?

[FaninAma]

So we can assume that you didn't vote for bush I after read my lips no new taxes and bush II after the surplus was turned into a deficit and there were no WMD in Iraq?
Voted for him in 2000. Voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2004 and 2008. Voted for Romney in 2012 after seeing what an incompetent imbecile Obama was.

Oh, I voted for GHWB in 1992 although I voted for and was a national delegate for Patrick Buchanan in the GOP primary that year.

And yourself?

[Sooner8th]

Voted for him in 2000. Voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2004 and 2008. Voted for Romney in 2012 after seeing what an incompetent imbecile Obama was.

Oh, I voted for GHWB in 1992 although I voted for and was a national delegate for Patrick Buchanan in the GOP primary that year.

And yourself?

John Anderson 1980....my first presidential vote, voted for graves for governor in '99 and the sob paid me back by taking a job with a year before his term was up, he didn't resign. I think you can guess what party i voted for the rest of the time.

[FaninAma]

John Anderson 1980....my first presidential vote
And since? Be honest now.

[Sooner8th]

And since? Be honest now.

voted for graves for governor in '99 and the sob paid me back by taking a job with a year before his term was up, he didn't resign. I think you can guess what party i voted for the rest of the time.

[FaninAma]

voted for graves for governor in '99 and the sob paid me back by taking a job with a year before his term was up, he didn't resign. I think you can guess what party i voted for the rest of the time.
I didn't have to guess.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/31/rand-only-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-were-from-the-previously-uninsured/

[Sooner8th]

I didn't have to guess.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/31/rand-only-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-were-from-the-previously-uninsured/

Never liked ACA, but it was all we could get through after lieberman did his second arnold act and didn't let us open up medicare for all. Seems like the house was going to limit it to over 35 or something.

[rock on sooner]

So why am I not suprised that supporters of the Democrats care little if those they vote for are liars. Just as long as they keep handing out the goodies.

Rock on, you have no clue how much those in the medical field hate what Obama is doing. A recent survey said that 80% of primary care doctors will likely retire earlier as a result of this law. The shortage of primary care providers is going to be absolutely devestating over the next 10 years.

Repeat this to yourself over and over again. Helath care coverage does not mean health care access. I will make you a guarantee that this will be a huge issue starting as early as next year.

Diver, it all depends on who compromises the 7.2 million. I don't believe they have 7.2 million legitimate paying customers. Obama is a pathological liar. I will make you a bet right now that with the actuarial mix of those that signed up the insurance companies will be screaming about losing money starting and premium costs will rise dramatically early next year conveniently after the election.

Fanin, you are correct about my not knowing the depth of hatred many in the
medical field have toward something that is going to put a dent in their heretofore
bloated cash cows and, I fully expect a number of primary care providers to exit
the workplace. In many (but not all) cases, it is probably good riddance, because
I'm quite certain that there are more than a few sub standard individuals that will
simply move on. And I have no doubt that it will be an issue, a huge one, as long
as many in the GOP still draw oxygen and take nourishment.

I have seen, first hand, Republican conversions to the ACA when they are personally
impacted...e.g. preexisting conditions and substantial $$$$ savings on medication, to
name two things.

[Sooner8th]

Fanin, you are correct about my not knowing the depth of hatred many in the
medical field have toward something that is going to put a dent in their heretofore
bloated cash cows and, I fully expect a number of primary care providers to exit
the workplace. In many (but not all) cases, it is probably good riddance, because
I'm quite certain that there are more than a few sub standard individuals that will
simply move on. And I have no doubt that it will be an issue, a huge one, as long
as many in the GOP still draw oxygen and take nourishment.

I have seen, first hand, Republican conversions to the ACA when they are personally
impacted...e.g. preexisting conditions and substantial $$$$ savings on medication, to
name two things.


Again we have the right questioning the numbers - like the unemployment numbers and the poll before the last election. As with rove making a complete *** of himself and trump doing the same, no amount of proof will change their minds from their predetermined outcomes.

The ACA is yet another in a long line of proof that all republican ideas are bad ideas!

[FaninAma]

Rock-on, I would be fine with legislation that reigns in insurance
companies and huge hospitals but this legislation doesn't do that.
Insurance companies are now subsidized by tax payers and can
now exclude doctors who don't agree with their reimbursement
schedules from their plans with the governments blessing. This is
why Medicaid patients have such a hard time finding a doctor. This
is also a reason primary care is suffering a critical shortage of physicians.

It is going to drive patient care even more to ERs and Urgent Cares.
It is going to drive up the deficit. It cuts reimbursement for Medicare (
although the GOP just pushed through a temporary delay on this).

Do you think the Massachussets health care law was a positive development?

And your comment about good riddance to the primary care physicians leaving
earlier is just ignorant and stupid. I know several fine PCPs who are great clinicians
and dedicated physicians who are throwing in the towel. Right now the ER group
I work for is down by 4 physicians. We have hired several nurse practitioners and PA's
but they only see 1/3 of the number of patients I do and they see none of the truly
acute patients. Waiting times in the ER have doubled over the past year and we are still
below the national average for waiting times. You need to get ready for waiting times like
they have in Canada where people bring their sleeping bags to the ER.

[FaninAma]

Again we have the right questioning the numbers - like the unemployment numbers and the poll before the last election. As with rove making a complete *** of himself and trump doing the same, no amount of proof will change their minds from their predetermined outcomes.

The ACA is yet another in a long line of proof that all republican ideas are bad ideas!
Rove being an *** and the GOP proposing some of the ideas in the ACA didn't translate
into legislation that will damage the country. If you want to compare what Obama
did to Bush's incompetence in Iraq then I might agree with you.

[diverdog]

So why am I not suprised that supporters of the Democrats care little if those they vote for are liars. Just as long as they keep handing out the goodies.

Rock on, you have no clue how much those in the medical field hate what Obama is doing. A recent survey said that 80% of primary care doctors will likely retire earlier as a result of this law. The shortage of primary care providers is going to be absolutely devestating over the next 10 years.

Repeat this to yourself over and over again. Helath care coverage does not mean health care access. I will make you a guarantee that this will be a huge issue starting as early as next year.

Diver, it all depends on who compromises the 7.2 million. I don't believe they have 7.2 million legitimate paying customers. Obama is a pathological liar. I will make you a bet right now that with the actuarial mix of those that signed up the insurance companies will be screaming about losing money starting and premium costs will rise dramatically early next year conveniently after the election.


First when any politicians lips are moving they are probably lying. It comes with the job. But I do think you are right about the paying customer number.

My job has morphed to where I am working with a lot more medical practices and a lot of what you are saying is true based on my talks with my clients. The loss of physicians will cause changes with the ACA health care law. I do not think they will get rid of it but make changes inside the current format to make the medical community happier.

[diverdog]

Rock-on, I would be fine with legislation that reigns in insurance
companies and huge hospitals but this legislation doesn't do that.
Insurance companies are now subsidized by tax payers and can
now exclude doctors who don't agree with their reimbursement
schedules from their plans with the governments blessing. This is
why Medicaid patients have such a hard time finding a doctor. This
is also a reason primary care is suffering a critical shortage of physicians.

It is going to drive patient care even more to ERs and Urgent Cares.
It is going to drive up the deficit. It cuts reimbursement for Medicare (
although the GOP just pushed through a temporary delay on this).

Do you think the Massachussets health care law was a positive development?

And your comment about good riddance to the primary care physicians leaving
earlier is just ignorant and stupid. I know several fine PCPs who are great clinicians
and dedicated physicians who are throwing in the towel. Right now the ER group
I work for is down by 4 physicians. We have hired several nurse practitioners and PA's
but they only see 1/3 of the number of patients I do and they see none of the truly
acute patients. Waiting times in the ER have doubled over the past year and we are still
below the national average for waiting times. You need to get ready for waiting times like
they have in Canada where people bring their sleeping bags to the ER.

In Dover we are seeing an explosion of Walk In Family Care Practices that are staffed by one PCP and several NPs/PAs. I think for the run of the mill illness this is going to be the model of the future.

[BermudaSooner]

As an insurer, I laugh at the thought that ACA is "reigning in insurance companies." It does no such thing...it simply gives different rules, and as evidenced by the change in costs of my personal plan, those new rules will just lead to higher premiums. Insurers exist to make a profit, if we don't make a profit, we close and give the capital back to our investors.

[rock on sooner]

Fanin, you overlooked the part of my comment "In many (but not all) cases..."
I'm fully aware there are MANY fine PCPers and I admire the expertise they
have, but I also am fully aware there are many that are not, and that's my
point...

Bermuda, if the ACA doesn't "reign in the insurance companies" then why did
they spend so much lobbying against the ACA?

[FaninAma]

As an insurer, I laugh at the thought that ACA is "reigning in insurance companies." It does no such thing...it simply gives different rules, and as evidenced by the change in costs of my personal plan, those new rules will just lead to higher premiums. Insurers exist to make a profit, if we don't make a profit, we close and give the capital back to our investors.
It also allows the biggest insurers like Wellpointe, Aetna and Blue Cross to capture even more of the market.

And starting next year they will jack up premium prices even more due to the fact that
the payer mix early in the program is horrible(I.e.More of the sicker and older patients
signing up in addition to all the defined benefits required by the ACA )

[badger]

You can hate taxes but most will still file by the April 15 deadline cuz it's law. Sure there will be "tax protestors" but they're outnumbered by those that follow the law, methinks.

Since the law said to file for Obamacare by March 31, I tend to believe that they go their 7 million signed up, because it's a tax and the tax is the law ;)

[FaninAma]

You can hate taxes but most will still file by the April 15 deadline cuz it's law. Sure there will be "tax protestors" but they're outnumbered by those that follow the law, methinks.

Since the law said to file for Obamacare by March 31, I tend to believe that they go their 7 million signed up, becausen it's a tax and the tax is the law ;)
Definitely a possibility. Also the conscientious heads of households who got kicked off their old plans do not want to leave their families uncovered despite the drawbacks to
the ACA plans.

[hawaii 5-0]

I'm sure Chairman Issa will hold a meeting to determine the accurate number.


5-0

[rock on sooner]

I'm sure Chairman Issa will hold a meeting to determine the accurate number.


5-0

Richest person in Congress will want to do SOMETHING to keep in the
limelight....

[rock on sooner]

It also allows the biggest insurers like Wellpointe, Aetna and Blue Cross to capture even more of the market.

And starting next year they will jack up premium prices even more due to the fact that
the payer mix early in the program is horrible(I.e.More of the sicker and older patients
signing up in addition to all the defined benefits required by the ACA )

You're spot on with your premium analysis. The plan was for a mix of about 32 or
33% of young, healthy types, a third up to 60 years of age or so, mostly healthy
and then the most expensive group...older, more vulnerable makes up the rest. I
saw one report that only 24% of the young healthy types make up the sign ups
so far. I believe the mix will come into line down the road and premiums will follow,
at least that's what the planners are hoping for. Like anything, have to walk before
you can run. There will continue to be a lot of "tweaking" to get it working better.
In the meantime, all those against it now will continue to rail, just as loud or louder
than before.

I've heard so much about how bad the ACA is, all the blather over and over but I've
not heard a single opponent offer even a tiny alternative, a "better" plan or a "fix" of
any sort, just "have to repeal and start over" or "have to repeal" ...period...

[8timechamps]

I haven't really given much thought to how legitimate the numbers are, but let's say that they are on the up and up for the sake of this conversation.

So, 7 million people are enrolled and have health insurance. Of those 7 million, how many had insurance prior to the ACA? I'd love to know the answer to that.

Here's my issue with this; even if all 7 million are first time "owners" of health insurance, how many American's now pay a significantly higher premium for their plan? I bet it's far more than 7 million. I'd also love to know how many chronic ER users bought insurance and how many people (that were targets of the ACA) still don't have insurance. Again, I bet that number exceeds 7 million. Then there's the folks that don't give a **** and will neither buy insurance under the ACA nor will they pay a fee (since they don't pay taxes anyway).

Do we need a better alternative to the 'old' system, yes. Is this the answer? Absolutely not.

In this case, the 7 million that were helped, were helped at the expense of far more people.

[hawaii 5-0]

I would have settled for not being denied insurance for pre-existing conditions.

Almost.

I think the important question is............ why do people with health insurance want to deny health insurance to those that have none? Sounds like the Death Panel thing.


5-0

[Curly Bill]

I would have settled for not being denied insurance for pre-existing conditions.

Almost.

I think the important question is............ why do people with health insurance want to deny health insurance to those that have none? Sounds like the Death Panel thing.


5-0

I don't wanna deny anyone health insurance. I just don't think I should have to pay for it for em!

[dwarthog]

Richest person in Congress will want to do SOMETHING to keep in the
limelight....

Dem's having 7 of the top ten richest people in Congress isn't enough for you guys?

[yermom]

Fanin, you overlooked the part of my comment "In many (but not all) cases..."
I'm fully aware there are MANY fine PCPers and I admire the expertise they
have, but I also am fully aware there are many that are not, and that's my
point...

Bermuda, if the ACA doesn't "reign in the insurance companies" then why did
they spend so much lobbying against the ACA?

because it worked, apparently

[OU_Sooners75]

Fanin, you are correct about my not knowing the depth of hatred many in the
medical field have toward something that is going to put a dent in their heretofore
bloated cash cows and, I fully expect a number of primary care providers to exit
the workplace. In many (but not all) cases, it is probably good riddance, because
I'm quite certain that there are more than a few sub standard individuals that will
simply move on. And I have no doubt that it will be an issue, a huge one, as long
as many in the GOP still draw oxygen and take nourishment.

I have seen, first hand, Republican conversions to the ACA when they are personally
impacted...e.g. preexisting conditions and substantial $$$$ savings on medication, to
name two things.


WOW...so i suppose you also think that all the primary care providers that end up quitting and walking away from the profession are the sub par ones?

We are going to lose a lot of very good MD's, DO's, PA's, PRN's, etc.

Next, I don't think anyone feels that the inclusion of prohibiting insurance providers to deny clients based on pre-existing conditions is/was a bad thing.

Also, what substantial savings on medication? My insurance I have (Not obamacare) I can get many of the prescriptions that I need at a very low price, may be generic, but they do the job. There were pharmacy groups out there already that offered lower medication costs if a patient had a card, and the card cost a very minimal amount or nothing at all.

That all said, not everything in the ACA is bad. There are some very good stuff included. But IMO, when you tell citizens you can keep your private insurance, and then those that already have it get dumped. When you tell people you have to have this or you have to pay a fine. When you consistently lie about the product instead of being upfront and honest with people, then we have a problem. The US government SHOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER tell its citizens you have to do this or else! You do that, you effectively ruin the republic.

Want to know part of the reason there is a UNITED STATES of AMERICA in the first place? It is because England told the citizens of the colonies that they have to pay higher taxes or else.

There were other issues as well that go inline with what the Patriot Act does, but that is another discussion.

[hawaii 5-0]

I'd be the first at admit that Obamacare isn't perfect. But I'm not. Lots of people have already to beat me to it.

Just like Social Security, Medicare and Civil Rights it's a change we're gonna have to live with.

At least for awhile. Unless both the Senate and House go Repub and Hillary loses in 2016 (which I just don't see at this point, stay tuned), then we're stuck with it. By then a lot of people with be used to it and probably won't want to lose their health coverage.

In the meantime Congress could do something productive and make an effort to get it right. If it's broken, fix it.

(holding breath...........1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi)

5-0

[badger]

In the meantime Congress could do something productive and make an effort to get it right. If it's broken, fix it.


It hasn't been implemented long enough to know exactly how to fix it without outright repeal, I'm guessing.

Should we correct how much people's premiums are going up? Not till we know how much they're going up or if they're going up at all.

Should we increase the penalty for young, healthy freeloaders that continue to not get health insurance despite the Obamacare tax threats? Not till we know the extent of how many should have signed up but aren't.

Should we help hospitals so they stop laying off workers due to Obamacare losses? Not till we know that this is actually happening due to Obamacare and to what extent.

Or, we can repeal the whole thing and go back to the way things were before. I'm not sure that's the right answer, but it would arguably be a way for Congress to "get it right"

And now, to count off the worst states in the union: 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi ;)

[rock on sooner]

WOW...so i suppose you also think that all the primary care providers that end up quitting and walking away from the profession are the sub par ones?

We are going to lose a lot of very good MD's, DO's, PA's, PRN's, etc.

Next, I don't think anyone feels that the inclusion of prohibiting insurance providers to deny clients based on pre-existing conditions is/was a bad thing.

Also, what substantial savings on medication? My insurance I have (Not obamacare) I can get many of the prescriptions that I need at a very low price, may be generic, but they do the job. There were pharmacy groups out there already that offered lower medication costs if a patient had a card, and the card cost a very minimal amount or nothing at all.

That all said, not everything in the ACA is bad. There are some very good stuff included. But IMO, when you tell citizens you can keep your private insurance, and then those that already have it get dumped. When you tell people you have to have this or you have to pay a fine. When you consistently lie about the product instead of being upfront and honest with people, then we have a problem. The US government SHOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER tell its citizens you have to do this or else! You do that, you effectively ruin the republic.

Want to know part of the reason there is a UNITED STATES of AMERICA in the first place? It is because England told the citizens of the colonies that they have to pay higher taxes or else.

There were other issues as well that go inline with what the Patriot Act does, but that is another discussion.

Of course I don't think the "walking away" will be only sub pars but a good
portion will be.

As to the $$$ saved, I'm talking about the closing of the doughnut on Part D.
I saw one report that seniors have saved an average of $1209 each since 2010.
When a senior reaches the doughnut, they get a $250 rebate then they get big
discounts on name brand drugs and better pricing on generic...so far in excess of
$9 billion nationwide. Now, if you want to see gray haired rebellion, go ahead and
try to take that away from seniors...the AARP would make the NRA cringe....along
with 26 and under on parental insurance, preexisting conditions (ask my wife's boss
how he feels about it since his wife is a breast cancer survivor) etc. I asked in an
earlier post for examples of how the GOP would replace the ACA..none were offered
so I went looking for GOP alternative. Among many points, a few...eliminate the
requirement of insurance, minimum benefits and employer fines (gotta help out
businesses, after all) Eliminate preexisting condition requirement. Having older
folks pay more (up to 5 times more) in premiums to lower the cost for the younger.
Give tax credits to help pay premiums. Cut back on Medicaid expansion and so on.
Senators Tom Coburn, Orrin Hatch and Richard Burr put this forward. This is just
a few points of their proposal...

5-0 makes a GREAT point, Congress orta git off its collective arse and fix what's broken!

[FaninAma]

Of course I don't think the "walking away" will be only sub pars but a good
portion will be.

As to the $$$ saved, I'm talking about the closing of the doughnut on Part D.
I saw one report that seniors have saved an average of $1209 each since 2010.
When a senior reaches the doughnut, they get a $250 rebate then they get big
discounts on name brand drugs and better pricing on generic...so far in excess of
$9 billion nationwide. Now, if you want to see gray haired rebellion, go ahead and
try to take that away from seniors...the AARP would make the NRA cringe....along
with 26 and under on parental insurance, preexisting conditions (ask my wife's boss
how he feels about it since his wife is a breast cancer survivor) etc. I asked in an
earlier post for examples of how the GOP would replace the ACA..none were offered
so I went looking for GOP alternative. Among many points, a few...eliminate the
requirement of insurance, minimum benefits and employer fines (gotta help out
businesses, after all) Eliminate preexisting condition requirement. Having older
folks pay more (up to 5 times more) in premiums to lower the cost for the younger.
Give tax credits to help pay premiums. Cut back on Medicaid expansion and so on.
Senators Tom Coburn, Orrin Hatch and Richard Burr put this forward. This is just
a few points of their proposal...

5-0 makes a GREAT point, Congress orta git off its collective arse and fix what's broken!

the sub-pars as you call them get out of actual clinical medicine early in their careers. They go into health care administration or other non-clinical settings with little or no patient contact. The 25+ year baby boomer practioners leaving even 3 to 5 years ealry is going to blow a huge hole in the supply of primary care physicians that will take a generation to overcome. The pipeline of new doctors entering the field is not keeping up with demand now. If you add a lot of early retirments to the mix the mess is going to get really ugly.

I wish everybody could have free health care with access to all the services they need. The problem is that we just don't have the resources. Either we raise taxes a lot higher or borrow even more money from future generations. The only other solution is to ration health care which will lead to a two-tier health care system like England's. Then the progressives will complain about that even though it will be their policies that led to that type of system.

[8timechamps]

the sub-pars as you call them get out of actual clinical medicine early in their careers. They go into health care administration or other non-clinical settings with little or no patient contact. The 25+ year baby boomer practioners leaving even 3 to 5 years ealry is going to blow a huge hole in the supply of primary care physicians that will take a generation to overcome. The pipeline of new doctors entering the field is not keeping up with demand now. If you add a lot of early retirments to the mix the mess is going to get really ugly.

I wish everybody could have free health care with access to all the services they need. The problem is that we just don't have the resources. Either we raise taxes a lot higher or borrow even more money from future generations. The only other solution is to ration health care which will lead to a two-tier health care system like England's. Then the progressives will complain about that even though it will be their policies that led to that type of system.

I think you are correct.

Nobody (that I know) wants to deny health care to anyone. That isn't even the issue. The issue is that this plan is so terribly flawed. Right now, the plan benefits a (relative) few at the expense of the majority of taxpayers. It's just a broken system.

This thing was rushed into action, and the longer it goes without a real overhaul, the worse it's going to be on the majority of taxpayers.

[8timechamps]

It hasn't been implemented long enough to know exactly how to fix it without outright repeal, I'm guessing.

Should we correct how much people's premiums are going up? Not till we know how much they're going up or if they're going up at all.

Should we increase the penalty for young, healthy freeloaders that continue to not get health insurance despite the Obamacare tax threats? Not till we know the extent of how many should have signed up but aren't.

Should we help hospitals so they stop laying off workers due to Obamacare losses? Not till we know that this is actually happening due to Obamacare and to what extent.

Or, we can repeal the whole thing and go back to the way things were before. I'm not sure that's the right answer, but it would arguably be a way for Congress to "get it right"

And now, to count off the worst states in the union: 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi ;)

I can't speak for every person that has insurance, but I can tell you as a small business owner my premiums have gone up so much that I had to postpone (or cancel) a planned new hire. Fortunately, I was in a position to cover the increase so my employees didn't have to, but if I wasn't able to do that there are a few that would have to drop their plan altogether.

I personally know many others (not employees) that have had increased premiums (some over 50%) and in some cases the plans are actually less comprehensive than the previous (less costly) one.

[olevetonahill]

Got a question for those who may Know or even care.
This 7 Mil number.Is it the number of Families that have signed up or a total of 7 million period. Ya know say 7 million Families of 4 or a total?

[rock on sooner]

Got a question for those who may Know or even care.
This 7 Mil number.Is it the number of Families that have signed up or a total of 7 million period. Ya know say 7 million Families of 4 or a total?

Vet, not sure here, but I think that the sign up is mostly for individuals. I base
this on so many news interviews that I've heard. You can be certain, however,
there are a bunch of families, too. So, if I read you query correctly, there's prolly
a bunch more than 7 mil total.

[olevetonahill]

Vet, not sure here, but I think that the sign up is mostly for individuals. I base
this on so many news interviews that I've heard. You can be certain, however,
there are a bunch of families, too. So, if I read you query correctly, there's prolly
a bunch more than 7 mil total.

I aint Queer.

[rock on sooner]

I aint Queer.

Put down yer beer and read what I said!

[8timechamps]

It's 7 million enrolled. So, the number of plans purchased through the program is less than 7 million, as it would include plans that cover more than one person.

[SoonerorLater]

It's 7 million enrolled. So, the number of plans purchased through the program is less than 7 million, as it would include plans that cover more than one person.

I wonder what the true net increase of insured are. 7 million minus everybody that has had their plans canceled. Right now this is a shell game.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Now they're reporting that peeps in prison are part of that count as well...

[hawaii 5-0]

Now they're reporting that peeps in prison are part of that count as well...


I would think that the particular institution, state or federal would be picking up that tab already. I really dunno.


5-0

[Soonerjeepman]

I can't speak for every person that has insurance, but I can tell you as a small business owner my premiums have gone up so much that I had to postpone (or cancel) a planned new hire. Fortunately, I was in a position to cover the increase so my employees didn't have to, but if I wasn't able to do that there are a few that would have to drop their plan altogether.

I personally know many others (not employees) that have had increased premiums (some over 50%) and in some cases the plans are actually less comprehensive than the previous (less costly) one.

looking for a plan for my 18 yr old son, if he was on my school plan I'd be paying over $800 OUT of pocket a month...so he has his own and has his own for 4 years. The premiums CAN be lower BUT the deductible and the co-insurance triples..from 1500 to 4000+ with only 50% coverage after that.

[Soonerjeepman]

we have such a cycle of "handouts" and "freebies" that our society in general doesn't want to work for anything.

I agree that no-one SHOULD be denied coverage, but at the same time I'm tired of paying for folks that really don't want to make their lives better by sacrificing their material desires.

Ex. a parent (low income, or non at all) brought 10 Pizza Hut pizzas to school for her daughter's bday on Wednesday. I really hate to put it this way but the family is on the lower end of the gene pool...more than likely on welfare, but has a cell phone and can spend $100+ on pizza for her daughter's class...choices

[yermom]

even with insurance, your average person still spends a lot of money for health care, outside of premiums if something goes wrong. kids just add more variables.

if you are just going broke trying to pay premiums, why bother at all? the emergency room has to take you. collections doesn't really have any teeth, as far as i know. insurance only works for people with money, and the paying customers get gouged. the system is broken.

i just don't get the point of this thread. is it that they are lying about how many people signed up, or that you we can't afford for people to sign up? the personal mandate is a joke. the penalty is WAY cheaper than paying for coverage. my premiums are more per month than for the whole year of Obamacare penalties, and that is with getting insurance through work. if someone healthy doesn't want insurance, they just aren't going to pay for it.

[bluedogok]

7,000,000 website hits, sure....I would bet a far fewer number have signed on the dotted like (or clicked the appropriate boxes) and PAID their premiums.

We got the bill a couple of weeks ago for just my emergency room, ICU (5.5 days) and hospital stay (2.5 days) in January, the total was almost $170,000 to which insurance negotiated their portion to just under $28,000 and we have a $2,800 obligation, we still haven't received a bill from the rehab hospital for a one week stay. I have since been visiting doctors and having treatments including another sinus surgery this past Thursday, our co-pay for that was $250 as we have met the deductible and max payout of my (company based) insurance (pretty much did by January 8th). Two weeks ago I had a hemoglobin infusion at the cost of about $4,500 a session which I may have to have every 4-6 weeks, there was no co-pay for that. We have been receiving doctors bills and such and they weren't as bad as we expected, our insurance is pretty much what it was before Obamacare took effect according to the bosses and insurance people, very few changes have been made to the policies in the past few years.

[8timechamps]

even with insurance, your average person still spends a lot of money for health care, outside of premiums if something goes wrong. kids just add more variables.

if you are just going broke trying to pay premiums, why bother at all? the emergency room has to take you. collections doesn't really have any teeth, as far as i know. insurance only works for people with money, and the paying customers get gouged. the system is broken.

i just don't get the point of this thread. is it that they are lying about how many people signed up, or that you we can't afford for people to sign up? the personal mandate is a joke. the penalty is WAY cheaper than paying for coverage. my premiums are more per month than for the whole year of Obamacare penalties, and that is with getting insurance through work. if someone healthy doesn't want insurance, they just aren't going to pay for it.

Supposedly, the ACA was going to alleviate that issue (or at least decrease the chronic ER users). In reality it's going to do very little (if anything) to change that behavior. People that don't want to pay for health insurance aren't going to stop going to the ER for whatever reasons they go (I'm not talking about true life/death emergencies). People that don't care aren't worried about the penalty either, as they will not file taxes.

My point in this thread is that the ACA has ended up costing the same people that were already covered, and costing a lot. Whether it's 7 million people is kinda ancillary to me, because it all comes at a higher cost to many.

[8timechamps]

7,000,000 website hits, sure....I would bet a far fewer number have signed on the dotted like (or clicked the appropriate boxes) and PAID their premiums.

We got the bill a couple of weeks ago for just my emergency room, ICU (5.5 days) and hospital stay (2.5 days) in January, the total was almost $170,000 to which insurance negotiated their portion to just under $28,000 and we have a $2,800 obligation, we still haven't received a bill from the rehab hospital for a one week stay. I have since been visiting doctors and having treatments including another sinus surgery this past Thursday, our co-pay for that was $250 as we have met the deductible and max payout of my (company based) insurance (pretty much did by January 8th). Two weeks ago I had a hemoglobin infusion at the cost of about $4,500 a session which I may have to have every 4-6 weeks, there was no co-pay for that. We have been receiving doctors bills and such and they weren't as bad as we expected, our insurance is pretty much what it was before Obamacare took effect according to the bosses and insurance people, very few changes have been made to the policies in the past few years.

Damn, what the hell happened?

As for your plan/premiums not really changing, I'd say consider yourself fortunate. I suspect your employer did what I did, and covered the additional cost...or, you are one of the few that things remained status quo.

[bluedogok]

Damn, what the hell happened?

As for your plan/premiums not really changing, I'd say consider yourself fortunate. I suspect your employer did what I did, and covered the additional cost...or, you are one of the few that things remained status quo.
Bacterial Meningitis, the ENT doctor who did the surgery reiterated they weren't sure that I was going to survive it and my sugar levels from the spinal tap didn't even register.

Our premiums went up a small amount in comparison to others that I have heard about, our renewal was in November so it may hit us this coming November.

[FaninAma]

Bacterial Meningitis, the ENT doctor who did the surgery reiterated they weren't sure that I was going to survive it and my sugar levels from the spinal tap didn't even register.

Our premiums went up a small amount in comparison to others that I have heard about, our renewal was in November so it may hit us this coming November.

The real deductible and premium increases will happen after the elections in November.

[8timechamps]

Bacterial Meningitis, the ENT doctor who did the surgery reiterated they weren't sure that I was going to survive it and my sugar levels from the spinal tap didn't even register.

Our premiums went up a small amount in comparison to others that I have heard about, our renewal was in November so it may hit us this coming November.

Holy cow! Glad you made it through! Which hospital were you in?

[bluedogok]

Holy cow! Glad you made it through! Which hospital were you in?
Parker Adventist

They theorize that I had a sinus infection go real bad. Luckily my wife called 911 when she did.

[achiro]

Saw a study the other day that showed just over 800,000 that have actually paid in. A LOOOONGGGG way from 7 million.

[olevetonahill]

For those that GAF.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/04/09/rand-comes-clean-obamacares-exchanges-enrolled-only-1-4-million-previously-uninsured-individuals/?partner=yahootix

[FaninAma]

even with insurance, your average person still spends a lot of money for health care, outside of premiums if something goes wrong. kids just add more variables.

if you are just going broke trying to pay premiums, why bother at all? the emergency room has to take you. collections doesn't really have any teeth, as far as i know. insurance only works for people with money, and the paying customers get gouged.

Yes, cash paying customers get screwed but it is because government sponsored health insurance plans pay 10 cents on the dollar. When I was in private practice I tried to charge cash paying customers less but I was told by both private insurance and medicaid that was illegal.

Also hospitals and doctors are pursuing collections very aggressively. They will turn you over to a collection agency. I never did. If a patient had a large unpaid bill I would attempt to have my office work out a pay,ent plan even if it was $5 to $10 a month and I would write off 50% of your bill if you did. If that wasn't acceptable I was forced to discharge that family from the practice. I hated to do it but you have to keep ypur doors open. When I left private practice I had an accounts receivable of $$80,000 dollars for a 2 year period that was never paid. My accounts receivable was one of the lowest in the community among Pediatricians.

[FaninAma]

For those that GAF.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/04/09/rand-comes-clean-obamacares-exchanges-enrolled-only-1-4-million-previously-uninsured-individuals/?partner=yahootix

Obama is a liar. Bush was a liar. Most politicians on the federal level are liars. Federal judges are liars. You see a trend here?

[8timechamps]

So basically the majority are paying more so 1.7 million people could get insurance. Absolutely amazing.

Although, I shouldn't be surprised.