budget and gun control editorial...

[Soonerjeepman]

http://downtrend.com/71superb/obama-slips-gun-control-measures-into-budget-proposal/?utm_source=Outbrain

The budget submitted by the President for the 2015 fiscal year contained some shocking tax and spending increases, but lost in the shuffle were Obama’s attempts to impose his gun control agenda. Resigned to the fact that gun control is not going to happen through acts of Congress, the president has been attempting to achieve his unconstitutional goals through the backdoor.

The White House released a statement regarding the gun control aspects of the budget:

Supports the “Now is the Time” initiative, the President’s plan to protect our children and our communities by reducing gun violence through improved background checks by the FBI and improved data via the National Criminal History Improvement Program, inspections of Federally-licensed firearms dealers, improved tracing and ballis*tics analysis, and efforts to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals. The Budget provides training for State and local law enforcement to prevent and respond to active shooters and prevent mass casualties, invests in programs to identify mental health issues early and continues the Comprehensive School Safety Program and other initiatives to enhance school security.

It just sounds like a bunch of “common sense” regulations that everybody could get behind to reduce gun violence, right? Well, if you look at what he’s really trying to do, you’ll realize these are some pretty scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives.

[8timechamps]

Anti-gun folks always say "everybody should be supportive of improved background checks!". The problem with that thinking is that we already have background checks in place, and it still didn't stop the mass shootings (and while I don't have proof, I suspect it would have had almost no impact on general gun violence).

All in all I don't have a lot of problem with the president's proposal (I've actually read the entire proposed budget), but he's reaching with this. The gun lobby is never going to agree to a national gun registry.

[Soonerjeepman]

exactly...(new gun laws WON'T stop the mass shootings).

yes all the bad guys are going to register their guns, or the guns they still (steal...must have been a long day~)....riiigghhhttt..hope it doesn't pass.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Leftist! Just like that sleazebag CA state senator who got all the anti-gun laws passed in CA only to be charged now for gun trafficking with the biggest Asian gang in SFO. Allowing only criminals to have guns...

[Soonerjeepman]

crazy ain't it.....

[Turd_Ferguson]

Hmmm. I'd like to here the Democrats on this board's point of view about this...

[OU68]

If the Repubs are fer um, the Dims are agin um and vicy versy.

[Sooner8th]

Hmmm. I'd like to here the Democrats on this board's point of view about this...

I am just one liberal democrat, you cannot spread my opinion on all democrats. Well over 80% of Americans support background checks for all purchases, at least last year it was. Republicans are always speaking of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, but how do you propose you do it? Background checks is the only way. I don't hear the dog whistle of unconstitutional scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives and gun registry in the proposal. The proposal seems to be to close loopholes in background checks primarily at gun shows.

The NRA has been co-opted and corrupted by gun dealers who want the "freedom" to sell ANY kind of guns. They are scaring traditional NRA members with they want to take your hunting rifles and shotguns. No one is talking about doing anything with those. It is my opinion no one needs a semi-automatic rifle assault rife, well military and some law enforcement do. The reason drug cartels and gangs have them is that gun dealers here in the good 'ol US of A are selling them to them and they don't want that golden egg laying goose killed.

As for taking guns out of the hands of criminals, no this will not, BUT don't republicans freak-out about they gonna take my guns every time something to do with guns is mentioned? Republicans have blocked the Obama's surgeon general nominee because he says having a handgun in the house is bad for kids health based on if you don't have one the chances of getting shot are much lower than if you do have one, common sense, right?

I fully support background checks on ALL handgun purchases and making illegal the sale of assault rifles that were invented for the military to kill people, not to hunt. Remember, 90% of handgun shootings victims know the person who shot them.

[olevetonahill]

On the surface you make sense. But its whats UNDER the surface that has answered My question of "If you were a Lib Idiot"

[Sooner8th]

On the surface you make sense. But its whats UNDER the surface that has answered My question of "If you were a Lib Idiot"


WOW - more dog whistles, only you can see what you want to see in what i wrote. Tell me exactly what is "under the surface"?


Like i said before "If you were a Lib Idiot" is a rhetorical question. Look up what a rhetorical question means.

[olevetonahill]

WOW - more dog whistles, only you can see what you want to see in what i wrote. Tell me exactly what is "under the surface"?


Like i said before "If you were a Lib Idiot" is a rhetorical question. Look up what a rhetorical question means.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSji4g5jildvRHAo0mPC9QUcheC7Qdz0 _XYmTJTdt4ApB46Uz6yaw

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I am just one liberal democrat, you cannot spread my opinion on all democrats. Well over 80% of Americans support background checks for all purchases, at least last year it was. Republicans are always speaking of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, but how do you propose you do it? Background checks is the only way. I don't hear the dog whistle of unconstitutional scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives and gun registry in the proposal. The proposal seems to be to close loopholes in background checks primarily at gun shows.

The NRA has been co-opted and corrupted by gun dealers who want the "freedom" to sell ANY kind of guns. They are scaring traditional NRA members with they want to take your hunting rifles and shotguns. No one is talking about doing anything with those. It is my opinion no one needs a semi-automatic rifle assault rife, well military and some law enforcement do. The reason drug cartels and gangs have them is that gun dealers here in the good 'ol US of A are selling them to them and they don't want that golden egg laying goose killed.

As for taking guns out of the hands of criminals, no this will not, BUT don't republicans freak-out about they gonna take my guns every time something to do with guns is mentioned? Republicans have blocked the Obama's surgeon general nominee because he says having a handgun in the house is bad for kids health based on if you don't have one the chances of getting shot are much lower than if you do have one, common sense, right?

I fully support background checks on ALL handgun purchases and making illegal the sale of assault rifles that were invented for the military to kill people, not to hunt. Remember, 90% of handgun shootings victims know the person who shot them.

You are wrong and against the Constitution.

[Soonerjeepman]

I am just one liberal democrat, you cannot spread my opinion on all democrats. Well over 80% of Americans support background checks for all purchases, at least last year it was. Republicans are always speaking of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, but how do you propose you do it? Background checks is the only way. I don't hear the dog whistle of unconstitutional scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives and gun registry in the proposal. The proposal seems to be to close loopholes in background checks primarily at gun shows.

The NRA has been co-opted and corrupted by gun dealers who want the "freedom" to sell ANY kind of guns. They are scaring traditional NRA members with they want to take your hunting rifles and shotguns. No one is talking about doing anything with those. It is my opinion no one needs a semi-automatic rifle assault rife, well military and some law enforcement do. The reason drug cartels and gangs have them is that gun dealers here in the good 'ol US of A are selling them to them and they don't want that golden egg laying goose killed.

As for taking guns out of the hands of criminals, no this will not, BUT don't republicans freak-out about they gonna take my guns every time something to do with guns is mentioned? Republicans have blocked the Obama's surgeon general nominee because he says having a handgun in the house is bad for kids health based on if you don't have one the chances of getting shot are much lower than if you do have one, common sense, right?

I fully support background checks on ALL handgun purchases and making illegal the sale of assault rifles that were invented for the military to kill people, not to hunt. Remember, 90% of handgun shootings victims know the person who shot them.


so is having any number of cleaners, tools, etc. There is a butt load of things that can "harm" kids but the SG focuses on handguns...explain why they don't list everything else in a house that can harm or kill kids?

[Sooner8th]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSji4g5jildvRHAo0mPC9QUcheC7Qdz0 _XYmTJTdt4ApB46Uz6yaw

All you can come back with are insults? Brilliant. Third time you've insulted me in the last week.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

[Sooner8th]

so is having any number of cleaners, tools, etc. There is a butt load of things that can "harm" kids but the SG focuses on handguns...explain why they don't list everything else in a house that can harm or kill kids?


Didn't "focus" on handguns, simply stated the truth. Cleaners have warning labels on them and are regulated. They already have statistics on cleaners and tools that harm kids, but not on guns because your party made it illegal for the CDC to gather the data.

[Sooner8th]

You are wrong and against the Constitution.

No I am not on either count.

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Just ignoring the first part?

[OU68]

I am just one liberal democrat, you cannot spread my opinion on all democrats. Well over 80% of Americans support background checks for all purchases, at least last year it was. Republicans are always speaking of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, but how do you propose you do it? Background checks is the only way. I don't hear the dog whistle of unconstitutional scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives and gun registry in the proposal. The proposal seems to be to close loopholes in background checks primarily at gun shows.

The NRA has been co-opted and corrupted by gun dealers who want the "freedom" to sell ANY kind of guns. They are scaring traditional NRA members with they want to take your hunting rifles and shotguns. No one is talking about doing anything with those. It is my opinion no one needs a semi-automatic rifle assault rife, well military and some law enforcement do. The reason drug cartels and gangs have them is that gun dealers here in the good 'ol US of A are selling them to them and they don't want that golden egg laying goose killed.

As for taking guns out of the hands of criminals, no this will not, BUT don't republicans freak-out about they gonna take my guns every time something to do with guns is mentioned? Republicans have blocked the Obama's surgeon general nominee because he says having a handgun in the house is bad for kids health based on if you don't have one the chances of getting shot are much lower than if you do have one, common sense, right?

I fully support background checks on ALL handgun purchases and making illegal the sale of assault rifles that were invented for the military to kill people, not to hunt. Remember, 90% of handgun shootings victims know the person who shot them.

You are so full of s%%t and don't even know it - drug cartels aren't sending Jose over to El Paso to buy a couple of ARs from the local gun shop - they buy them by the truck load from international arms dealers. Get a clue.

[olevetonahill]

All you can come back with are insults? Brilliant. Third time you've insulted me in the last week.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

Thot it was "Rhetorical" :applause:

Sides Insultin Know it all Libs is My Day Jorb.

[olevetonahill]

Didn't "focus" on handguns, simply stated the truth.
Cleaners have warning labels on them and are regulated. They already have statistics on cleaners and tools that harm kids, but not on guns because your party made it illegal for the CDC to gather the data.

You really are a ****in Tard aint ya.
See that wernt no question that was a simple statement of FACT.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSji4g5jildvRHAo0mPC9QUcheC7Qdz0 _XYmTJTdt4ApB46Uz6yawYou didn't buy the lib's attempt at rational thought...you, sir, are nothing but STUPIG!

[olevetonahill]

You didn't buy the lib's attempt at rational thought...you, sir, are nothing but STUPIG!

Wonder do he think Me postin that Pic was "Rhetorical" ? :soap:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You really are a ****in Tard aint ya.
See that wernt no question that was a simple statement of FACT.is that guy the second coming of marfac? That's what this board needs...more liberals/progressives/socialists/fascists/centrists

[olevetonahill]

is that guy the second coming of marfac? That's what this board needs...more liberals/progressives/socialists/fascists/centrists

I think hes the Love child of Matlock and Marfa

[Sooner8th]

You are so full of s%%t and don't even know it - drug cartels aren't sending Jose over to El Paso to buy a couple of ARs from the local gun shop - they buy them by the truck load from international arms dealers. Get a clue.

Really? Explain to me what Fast and Furious "scandal" was all about.

[Sooner8th]

Wonder do he think Me postin that Pic was "Rhetorical" ? :soap:

Show me where i said the pic was Rhetorical.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think hes the Love child of Matlock and MarfaThat's how they operate. BTW, what was the name Matlock used on this board?

[Sooner8th]

You didn't buy the lib's attempt at rational thought...you, sir, are nothing but STUPIG!

I am the one that is STUPIG? You don't even know that the pic that was shown is a conservative pro-Iraq war supporter. Josh "Randy" Sullivan

A little bit about the guy you tried to insult a liberal democrat with:

Josh "Randy" Sullivan is a Cardinals fan and the author of the wildly offensive and little-read Twitter feed Birds On Bats. But you might recognize him from this photograph, taken at an Iraq War counter-protest in 2004, which shortly thereafter became an internet sensation.

I met Randy at Busch Stadium earlier this season. After some prodding, he agreed to an interview on the condition that I buy him two KFC Famous Bowls™.

Randy's opinions are his own and do not reflect those of SB Nation or the St. Louis Cardinals baseball organization.

*************
Randy, thanks for talking with me. First off, let's get some background. Where are you from, and what do you do?

I'm from Decatur, Illinois, born and raised. And until a few months ago, I worked at the local corn sugar factory
As I'm sure you know, the photograph of you at the‒

‒I can't talk about that. I'm in the process of suing that photographer and a bunch of internet people, if I can find a lawyer who'll represent me. [To tape recorder] If anyone listening to this is a lawyer or an attorney, please contact my twitter so I can sue somebody.


He is a typical ignorant conservative - a lot like any conservatives on here who try to use his picture to insult liberals. Shot yourselves in the foot, didn't ya? HAHAHAHAHA

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Dang, man, that's effing PERSUASIVE as hell!:beaten::dispirited::congratulatory::love_hea rt::tears_of_joy:

[OU68]

Really? Explain to me what Fast and Furious "scandal" was all about.

It was about Holder trying to look smart (kind of like you), and winding up a fool. If you really believe billion dollar cartels are buying their guns in the US, well, Vet has you pegged.

[Sooner8th]

It was about Holder trying to look smart (kind of like you), and winding up a fool. If you really believe billion dollar cartels are buying their guns in the US, well, Vet has you pegged.

YES! Where were the guns going to? What was the scandal about? MEXICO DRUG GANGS! Guns tracked by the ATF have been found at crime scenes on both sides of the Mexico–United States border, and the scene where United States Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed!


"Gunwalking", or "letting guns walk", was a tactic of the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011[2][5] in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders and arrest them."[6] These operations were done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the United States.[7] The Chambers case began in October 2009, and eventually became known in February 2010 as "Operation Fast and Furious" after agents discovered some of the suspects under investigation belonged to a car club.[1]
The stated goal of allowing these purchases was to continue to track the firearms as they were transferred to higher-level traffickers and key figures in Mexican cartels, with the expectation that this would lead to their arrests and the dismantling of the cartels.[6][8][9] The tactic was questioned during the operations by a number of people, including ATF field agents and cooperating licensed gun dealers.[10][11][12][13][14] During Operation Fast and Furious, the largest "gunwalking" probe, the ATF monitored the sale of about 2,000[1]:203[15] firearms, of which only 710 were recovered as of February 2012.[1]:203 A number of straw purchasers have been arrested and indicted; however, as of October 2011, none of the targeted high-level cartel figures had been arrested.[6]

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

YES! Where were the guns going to? What was the scandal about? MEXICO DRUG GANGS! Guns tracked by the ATF have been found at crime scenes on both sides of the Mexico–United States border, and the scene where United States Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed!


"Gunwalking", or "letting guns walk", was a tactic of the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011[2][5] in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders and arrest them."[6] These operations were done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the United States.[7] The Chambers case began in October 2009, and eventually became known in February 2010 as "Operation Fast and Furious" after agents discovered some of the suspects under investigation belonged to a car club.[1]
The stated goal of allowing these purchases was to continue to track the firearms as they were transferred to higher-level traffickers and key figures in Mexican cartels, with the expectation that this would lead to their arrests and the dismantling of the cartels.[6][8][9] The tactic was questioned during the operations by a number of people, including ATF field agents and cooperating licensed gun dealers.[10][11][12][13][14] During Operation Fast and Furious, the largest "gunwalking" probe, the ATF monitored the sale of about 2,000[1]:203[15] firearms, of which only 710 were recovered as of February 2012.[1]:203 A number of straw purchasers have been arrested and indicted; however, as of October 2011, none of the targeted high-level cartel figures had been arrested.[6]Bravisimo! you should be awarded 2 or more Carbon Credits.

[Sooner8th]

It was about Holder trying to look smart (kind of like you), and winding up a fool. If you really believe billion dollar cartels are buying their guns in the US, well, Vet has you pegged.

Do you even understand this is a program that was stated under the bush administration in 2006 as Operation Wide Receiver?

[OU68]

YES! Where were the guns going to? What was the scandal about? MEXICO DRUG GANGS! Guns tracked by the ATF have been found at crime scenes on both sides of the Mexico–United States border, and the scene where United States Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed!


"Gunwalking", or "letting guns walk", was a tactic of the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011[2][5] in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders and arrest them."[6] These operations were done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the United States.[7] The Chambers case began in October 2009, and eventually became known in February 2010 as "Operation Fast and Furious" after agents discovered some of the suspects under investigation belonged to a car club.[1]
The stated goal of allowing these purchases was to continue to track the firearms as they were transferred to higher-level traffickers and key figures in Mexican cartels, with the expectation that this would lead to their arrests and the dismantling of the cartels.[6][8][9] The tactic was questioned during the operations by a number of people, including ATF field agents and cooperating licensed gun dealers.[10][11][12][13][14] During Operation Fast and Furious, the largest "gunwalking" probe, the ATF monitored the sale of about 2,000[1]:203[15] firearms, of which only 710 were recovered as of February 2012.[1]:203 A number of straw purchasers have been arrested and indicted; however, as of October 2011, none of the targeted high-level cartel figures had been arrested.[6]

Geezus, are you really that stupid? What was the scandal about? It was about the ATF getting a border agent killed because they had no idea where the guns were going or who was using them. Did those go to cartel members, well hell, yes. But if you think we're the primary source of cartel armament you are f**ng nuts!

[Sooner8th]

Geezus, are you really that stupid? What was the scandal about? It was about the ATF getting a border agent killed because they had no idea where the guns were going or who was using them. Did those go to cartel members, well hell, yes. But if you think we're the primary source of cartel armament you are f**ng nuts!

So you don't acknowledge that the scandal is about letting arms go through that ended up killing an border agent? That was the focus of the house subcommittee "investigation".

[OU68]

Definitely Matlock - if you can't answer, deflect.

[olevetonahill]

That's how they operate. BTW, what was the name Matlock used on this board?

Midtowner He made more money and worked less than anyone.

[olevetonahill]

Definitely Matlock - if you can't answer, deflect.

Plus he KNOWs he be Plum smarter than everyone else, Prolly has More Money also.

[olevetonahill]

Show me where i said the pic was Rhetorical.

Dayum einstein show me where I said that YOU said it was rhetorical? I axed another simple question , I know those are hard for Lib jelly brain to compress aint they?

[Sooner8th]

Definitely Matlock - if you can't answer, deflect.


what exactly have i not answered?

olevetonahill i asked you what was hidden - no answer.

You guys are off on some tangent where you cannot keep your arguments consistent. Tell me again how fast and furious was about not letting border agents know that they let assault rifles go through. The WHOLE point of the "scandal" was Holder LET them go through and it cost a border patrol agent his life. Your previous argument was they are getting most of their guns from outside the US, so with that logic - the border patrol would KNOW they have assault rifles.

someone asked for a democrats view point and i gave it, then I'm insulted - never talking about the points i made!

What a bunch of dumbasses.................

[OU68]

what exactly have i not answered?

olevetonahill i asked you what was hidden - no answer.

You guys are off on some tangent where you cannot keep your arguments consistent. Tell me again how fast and furious was about not letting border agents know that they let assault rifles go through. The WHOLE point of the "scandal" was Holder LET them go through and it cost a border patrol agent his life. Your previous argument was they are getting most of their guns from outside the US, so with that logic - the border patrol would KNOW they have assault rifles.

someone asked for a democrats view point and i gave it, then I'm insulted - never talking about the points i made!

What a bunch of dumbasses.................

Yeah, the border patrol guys think they're up against bows & arrows - you are one serious dipsh*t

[olevetonahill]

what exactly have i not answered?

olevetonahill i asked you what was hidden - no answer.

You guys are off on some tangent where you cannot keep your arguments consistent. Tell me again how fast and furious was about not letting border agents know that they let assault rifles go through. The WHOLE point of the "scandal" was Holder LET them go through and it cost a border patrol agent his life. Your previous argument was they are getting most of their guns from outside the US, so with that logic - the border patrol would KNOW they have assault rifles.

someone asked for a democrats view point and i gave it,
then I'm insulted - never talking about the points i made!


What a bunch of dumbasses.................

:applause:

[Sooner8th]

Yeah, the border patrol guys think they're up against bows & arrows - you are one serious dipsh*t

WOW you are a real dumbass - it was your logic not mine......................

[OU68]

I am just one liberal democrat, you cannot spread my opinion on all democrats. Well over 80% of Americans support background checks for all purchases, at least last year it was. Republicans are always speaking of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, but how do you propose you do it? Background checks is the only way. I don't hear the dog whistle of unconstitutional scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives and gun registry in the proposal. The proposal seems to be to close loopholes in background checks primarily at gun shows.

The NRA has been co-opted and corrupted by gun dealers who want the "freedom" to sell ANY kind of guns. They are scaring traditional NRA members with they want to take your hunting rifles and shotguns. No one is talking about doing anything with those. It is my opinion no one needs a semi-automatic rifle assault rife, well military and some law enforcement do. The reason drug cartels and gangs have them is that gun dealers here in the good 'ol US of A are selling them to them and they don't want that golden egg laying goose killed.

As for taking guns out of the hands of criminals, no this will not, BUT don't republicans freak-out about they gonna take my guns every time something to do with guns is mentioned? Republicans have blocked the Obama's surgeon general nominee because he says having a handgun in the house is bad for kids health based on if you don't have one the chances of getting shot are much lower than if you do have one, common sense, right?

I fully support background checks on ALL handgun purchases and making illegal the sale of assault rifles that were invented for the military to kill people, not to hunt. Remember, 90% of handgun shootings victims know the person who shot them.

So you still maintain that all those guns that Holder's boys let through are the main source for the cartels. Who's the dumbass?

[Sooner8th]

So you still maintain that all those guns that Holder's boys let through are the main source for the cartels. Who's the dumbass?

1. NO and i never did- not holders boys being the only source - i was trying to prove they do go from the us to cartels.

2. I should have been clearer. I should have figured folks on this board would pick apart the semantics instead of the point. I should have said - selling guns to straw men for cartels is an income source. I did a lousy job of making my point.

The REAL point i was making is - gun dealers have co-opted the NRA to keep unfettered access to any type of gun.

[Sooner8th]

So you still maintain that all those guns that Holder's boys let through are the main source for the cartels. Who's the dumbass?

Do you still maintain fast and furious "scandal" was about not letting the border patrol know they let guns go to mexico drug cartels?

[OU68]

Do you still maintain fast and furious "scandal" was about not letting the border patrol know they let guns go to mexico drug cartels?

Absolutely NOT. The dealers informed ATF agents and were told to look the other way.

[Sooner8th]

Absolutely NOT. The dealers informed ATF agents and were told to look the other way.

So - we agree on that. Guns from gun dealers are bought and they go to mexico drug cartels. My original point. Can we go back to a discussion on "gun control"?

[olevetonahill]

Discussing Gun Control with a ****in Lib is like discussing Physics with a retarded Monkey.

[Sooner8th]

Discussing Gun Control with a ****in Lib is like discussing Physics with a retarded Monkey.

Just like a conservative dumbass trying to insult a liberal by showing a pic of an ignorant conservative.

You still haven't told me what the hidden things are.

[olevetonahill]

Just like a conservative dumbass trying to insult a liberal by showing a pic of an ignorant conservative.

You still haven't told me what the hidden things are.

Aint my job . You put a sh!t sammich on the Table then ask us to take it apart and tell you whats wrong.:hypnotysed:
Idiot.

[Sooner8th]

Aint my job . You put a sh!t sammich on the Table then ask us to take it apart and tell you whats wrong.:hypnotysed:
Idiot.

i meant this dumbass -


On the surface you make sense. But its whats UNDER the surface that has answered My question of "If you were a Lib Idiot"

[olevetonahill]

i meant this dumbass -

Thats the Sh!T Sammich i was referring to there Pot!

[Sooner8th]

Thats the Sh!T Sammich i was referring to there Pot!

So tell me what is under it.

[Sooner Eclipse]

The stated goal of allowing these purchases was to continue to track the firearms as they were transferred to higher-level traffickers and key figures in Mexican cartels, with the expectation that this would lead to their arrests and the dismantling of the cartels.

You're right. That was the stated goal of both linebacker and F&F. The difference with F&F is Obummer and Holder decided it was better to "lose" these guns, wait for them to show up at crime scenes, and then use that as proof of need for more stringent gun control to the American public. Do you not remember the multiple speeches prior to F&F becoming public by the Mexican president demanding the US do something about the flow of guns across the border? Those speeches stopped after that ATF agent let Holder's cat out of the bag. This despite the fact that US sourced arms were a fraction of the guns that were being recovered in Mexico. Had that agent not sold Holder out, the true goal would have been the administrations planned, predictable response using F&F results of dead mexicans and border patrol agents as justification.

The unstated purpose of Holder/Obama's F&F operation was to supply "proof" to the urgent need to enact additional gun control legislation. Obama and the Mexican president were playing the American public to achieve a common goal.

:obama icon:Yay, more gun control, because "we are supplying the cartels with American guns" and this is "proof". :obama icon:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The reality that is Beary going without congress' approval of more punitive and restrictive gun control measures is proof of one of the reasons that we have the 2nd amendment in the first place: to guard against a government going on an outlaw tear, and threatening the populace with no adequate means of self defense, against both the thugs in our midst, and a government gone awry.

[olevetonahill]

The reality that is Beary going without congress' approval of more punitive and restrictive gun control measures is proof of one of the reasons that we have the 2nd amendment in the first place: to guard against a government going on an outlaw tear, and threatening the populace with no adequate means of self defense, against both the thugs in our midst, and a government gone awry.


Yall debating Gun Control with a Lib is idiotic. He has his little Pea Pickin mind made up, He has ALL the answers and if that aint enough He Knows its all Bush's fault.

[Sooner Eclipse]

Yall debating Gun Control with a Lib is idiotic. He has his little Pea Pickin mind made up, He has ALL the answers and if that aint enough He Knows its all Bush's fault.

Not debating him. He can believe whatever bull ****e Obummer wishes to feed him. Just pointing out that with this admin, it's the unstated goal that is usually the problem.

[olevetonahill]

Not debating him. He can believe whatever bull ****e Obummer wishes to feed him. Just pointing out that with this admin, it's the unstated goal that is usually the problem.

Heh.

[Sooner8th]

You're right. That was the stated goal of both linebacker and F&F. The difference with F&F is Obummer and Holder decided it was better to "lose" these guns, wait for them to show up at crime scenes, and then use that as proof of need for more stringent gun control to the American public. Do you not remember the multiple speeches prior to F&F becoming public by the Mexican president demanding the US do something about the flow of guns across the border? Those speeches stopped after that ATF agent let Holder's cat out of the bag. This despite the fact that US sourced arms were a fraction of the guns that were being recovered in Mexico. Had that agent not sold Holder out, the true goal would have been the administrations planned, predictable response using F&F results of dead mexicans and border patrol agents as justification.

The unstated purpose of Holder/Obama's F&F operation was to supply "proof" to the urgent need to enact additional gun control legislation. Obama and the Mexican president were playing the American public to achieve a common goal.

:obama icon:Yay, more gun control, because "we are supplying the cartels with American guns" and this is "proof". :obama icon:

Where do you get this at? Oh thats right - rightwingnut websites and fox "news". Do you really think it was obama and holder themselves who told them not to interdict the guns?

I found this from Fortune:

Prosecutors: Transferring guns is legal in Arizona

This was not the view of federal prosecutors. In a meeting on Jan. 5, 2010, Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix overseeing the Fast and Furious case, told the agents they lacked probable cause for arrests, according to ATF records. Hurley's judgment reflected accepted policy at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona. "[P]urchasing multiple long guns in Arizona is lawful," Patrick Cunningham, the U.S. Attorney's then–criminal chief in Arizona would later write. "Transferring them to another is lawful and even sale or barter of the guns to another is lawful unless the United States can prove by clear and convincing evidence that the firearm is intended to be used to commit a crime." (Arizona federal prosecutors referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, which declined to make officials available. Hurley noted in an e-mail, "I am not able to comment on what I understand to be an ongoing investigation/prosecution. I am precluded by federal regulation, DOJ policy, the rules of professional conduct, and court order from talking with you about this matter." Cunningham's attorney also declined to comment.)

It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn't necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.

So to summarize - you think that Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix got in touch with of President Obama and Holder and asked them about this?

Now I have read that in operation wide receiver many of the guns ended up in mexico drug cartel hands and this whole operation that was designed to get drug kingpins was just stupid. But it was not brought about by Obama and Holder to get more gun laws passed.

[OU68]

I found this from Fortune:

(Arizona federal prosecutors referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, which declined to make officials available. Hurley noted in an e-mail, "I am not able to comment on what I understand to be an ongoing investigation/prosecution. I am precluded by federal regulation, DOJ policy, the rules of professional conduct, and court order from talking with you about this matter." Cunningham's attorney also declined to comment.).

Vet - don't run him off, he's too much fun! :triumphant:

[olevetonahill]

Vet - don't run him off, he's too much fun! :triumphant:

Im tryin to be good Bro. But the dude is just too ****ing stupid to see his errors!

[Sooner8th]

Im tryin to be good Bro. But the dude is just too ****ing stupid to see his errors!

where is the error? They declined to make Justice Department officials available for comment is some kind of smoking gun? You have all the answers don't you? Even after a year of "investigation" issa still hasn't found anything linking this directly to Obama and Holder. This is Whitewater all over again - you know they did something - you just can't prove it.

Why would you turn me off? Is it because I question your blind following of rightwingnut orthodoxy?

You STILL haven't answered my question of what is under the surface?

[OU68]

where is the error? They declined to make Justice Department officials available for comment is some kind of smoking gun? You have all the answers don't you? Even after a year of "investigation" issa still hasn't found anything linking this directly to Obama and Holder. This is Whitewater all over again - you know they did something - you just can't prove it.

Why would you turn me off? Is it because I question your blind following of rightwingnut orthodoxy?

You STILL haven't answered my question of what is under the surface?

From the LA Times: "Reporting from Washington—
Senior Justice Department officials were aware that ATF agents allowed firearms to be "walked" into Mexico, according to a series of emails last year in which they discussed two undercover operations on the Southwest border, including the failed Fast and Furious program." Did Obama "order" it - of course not. Was Holder aware of it - well, I'll let you answer that. Either he was incompetent (can't dismiss that out-of-hand) or did the "wink-wink" - plausible deniability and all that...

[olevetonahill]

where is the error? They declined to make Justice Department officials available for comment is some kind of smoking gun? You have all the answers don't you? Even after a year of "investigation" issa still hasn't found anything linking this directly to Obama and Holder. This is Whitewater all over again - you know they did something - you just can't prove it.

Why would you turn me off? Is it because I question your blind following of rightwingnut orthodoxy?

You STILL haven't answered my question of what is under the surface?

Dont plan on even attempting an answer to you. You convinced me yer a retard when you fell back on the Old "Its Bush's Fault" lib ploy.
Now **** off dip ****.

[Sooner8th]

Dont plan on even attempting an answer to you. You convinced me yer a retard when you fell back on the Old "Its Bush's Fault" lib ploy.
Now **** off dip ****.

More brilliant logic from an ignorant republican. You don't answer me cause there is nothing you can back up.

[olevetonahill]

More brilliant logic from an ignorant republican. You don't answer me cause there is nothing you can back up.

Hey einstein, for your Info im a reg Dem. get back under yer bridge.

http://www.schoolholidayprojects.com/images/troll_01.gif

[8timechamps]

You are so full of s%%t and don't even know it - drug cartels aren't sending Jose over to El Paso to buy a couple of ARs from the local gun shop - they buy them by the truck load from international arms dealers. Get a clue.

The Mexican cartel's assault rifle of choice is the AK. But anti-gun folks don't like to talk about that, because that would put a ding in their "the cartel's buy all of their weapons from the US" argument.

[OU68]

Dammit Vet, looks like you've run the little feller off!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Dammit Vet, looks like you've run the little feller off!he was so confident about his enlightened position, so much more modern and wise than the old fuddy-duddy founders and their antiquated laws. Maybe he'll be back with another ID.

[olevetonahill]

Dammit Vet, looks like you've run the little feller off!


he was so confident about his enlightened position, so much more modern and wise than the old fuddy-duddy founders and their antiquated laws. Maybe he'll be back with another ID.


Yall Unlax. he aint been gone a full day. He prolly diggin an scroungin fer More "Facts"

[Sooner8th]

Yall Unlax. he aint been gone a full day. He prolly diggin an scroungin fer More "Facts"

No I'm just not going to waste my time with someone as ignorant and insulting as you. I never ever "blamed bush". I simply stated the fact that the program started under him. You said there it's "what is under" the surface is the problem - but you won't answer the question - you resort to calling a retard, ignorant lib, telling me to **** off dip**** from someone who so stupid he thinks this was setup by obama and holder to get guns from America to Mexican drug cartels so they will kill us citizens so they could push through gun restrictions. Now that I've called you on your incredibly ignorant position, tell me how it was a joke.

loevetonahill - you are one incredibly ignorant, stupid small man with a simple mind who thinks getting on a message board and belittling other peoples opinions - while not backing up your own, is fun. You are a sad little man, with an even tinier mind. I'm just ignoring anything you say, you are not worth my time nor my effort. I would say **** off ******* - but....like i said you are not worth it.

There is one last thing I will say to you - leave my party and join the republican party - it'll raise the IQ in both.

[olevetonahill]

No I'm just not going to waste my time with someone as ignorant and insulting as you. I never ever "blamed bush". I simply stated the fact that the program started under him. You said there it's "what is under" the surface is the problem - but you won't answer the question - you resort to calling a retard, ignorant lib, telling me to **** off dip****
from someone who so stupid he thinks this was setup by obama and holder to get guns from America to Mexican drug cartels so they will kill us citizens so they could push through gun restrictions. Now that I've called you on your incredibly ignorant position, tell me how it was a joke.

loevetonahill - you are one incredibly ignorant, stupid small man with a simple mind who thinks getting on a message board and belittling other peoples opinions - while not backing up your own, is fun. You are a sad little man, with an even tinier mind. I'm just ignoring anything you say, you are not worth my time nor my effort. I would say **** off ******* - but....like i said you are not worth it.

There is one last thing I will say to you - leave my party and join the republican party - it'll raise the IQ in both.

LMFAO, Boy You shonuff tolt me dint ya!
Now Please einstein show me where I said ANY of what I quoted.
I hope ya stick around I enjoy these lil Lib Tantrums Yall thro!

[olevetonahill]

Dammit Vet, looks like you've run the little feller off!

Tolt ya If I kept Pokin him with a sharp stick he'd try to bite :triumphant:

[Sooner8th]

LMFAO, Boy You shonuff tolt me dint ya!
Now Please einstein show me where I said ANY of what I quoted.
I hope ya stick around I enjoy these lil Lib Tantrums Yall thro!

My apologizes - it was Sooner Eclipse who said that. I was thinking of Prolly a Dayum Lib Democrat trying to stir the pot thread.

[olevetonahill]

My apologizes - it was Sooner Eclipse who said that. I was thinking of Prolly a Dayum Lib Democrat trying to stir the pot thread.

How does My tasteless attempt at humor resemble the Holder and F&F deal?

http://www.olevetpossehideout.com/forums/images/smilies/fuk2.jpg
http://www.olevetpossehideout.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

There is one last thing I will say to you - leave my party and join the republican party - it'll raise the IQ in both.Please stay with the dems. That's the home of socialist/authoritarian thought in the USA. The republicans have acquired too many RINOS already. Our only hope of reinstating our laws is to bolster the repubs with conservatives, not more libs.

[8timechamps]

If your a lib, and you come to this board to argue/debate your stance, you had better come with a thick skin. If websites were assigned colors based on political affiliation (like the states), this forum on Soonerfans.com would be firmly in the red.

[olevetonahill]

If your a lib, and you come to this board to argue/debate your stance, you had better come with a thick skin. If websites were assigned colors based on political affiliation (like the states), this forum on Soonerfans.com would be firmly in the red.

And Idiots Like HIM would be Black an Blue !

Plus Please for the Love of God and all thats Holy . If yer gonna Preach Take OUR guns Have a coherent Statement to try to argue . DONT trot out all the Lame assed Lib Talkin Points ok?

Does it really bother you 8 that there is a registered Dem that Loves Guns?

[Soonerjeepman]

So to summarize - you think that Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix got in touch with of President Obama and Holder and asked them about this?


directly? prob not, but definitely he was "advised" what to do..that I have no doubt. Honestly 8th both sides are sneaky bastards....but obama is going over the top to get his agenda passed.

[hawaii 5-0]

I'm a Dem and a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Got my 1st gun at 12 years old.

Hell, if someone wants to own a bazooka or a Harm missile I'm OK with that.

However, there's a responsibility that comes with gun ownership. They don't belong in the hands of everybody.

Sorry to spoil anyone's notions that all Dems are antigun.

5-0

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm a Dem and a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Got my 1st gun at 12 years old.

Hell, if someone wants to own a bazooka or a Harm missile I'm OK with that.

However, there's a responsibility that comes with gun ownership. They don't belong in the hands of everybody.

Sorry to spoil anyone's notions that all Dems are antigun.

5-0Do you agree that part of the reason for having the 2nd amendment is to guard against a government's abuse of power?

[OU68]

No I'm just not going to waste my time with someone as ignorant and insulting as you. I never ever "blamed bush". I simply stated the fact that the program started under him. You said there it's "what is under" the surface is the problem - but you won't answer the question - you resort to calling a retard, ignorant lib, telling me to **** off dip**** from someone who so stupid he thinks this was setup by obama and holder to get guns from America to Mexican drug cartels so they will kill us citizens so they could push through gun restrictions. Now that I've called you on your incredibly ignorant position, tell me how it was a joke.

loevetonahill - you are one incredibly ignorant, stupid small man with a simple mind who thinks getting on a message board and belittling other peoples opinions - while not backing up your own, is fun. You are a sad little man, with an even tinier mind. I'm just ignoring anything you say, you are not worth my time nor my effort. I would say **** off ******* - but....like i said you are not worth it.

There is one last thing I will say to you - leave my party and join the republican party - it'll raise the IQ in both.

No name calling, just go back and read post #54

[hawaii 5-0]

Do you agree that part of the reason for having the 2nd amendment is to guard against a government's abuse of power?


I believe that was the intention of the Founding Fathers, yes. Lots of tyranny back then.


5-0

[Sooner Eclipse]

You said there it's "what is under" the surface is the problem - but you won't answer the question - you resort to calling a retard, ignorant lib, telling me to **** off dip**** from someone who so stupid he thinks this was setup by obama and holder to get guns from America to Mexican drug cartels so they will kill us citizens so they could push through gun restrictions. Now that I've called you on your incredibly ignorant position, tell me how it was a joke.

That was my account of the events of F&F. Not Vets. And if you cant see whats in front of your face, despite the propaganda that is fed to you, you're the idiot. Just another lamb to the slaughter. Try pulling your head outta the group think *** and realize what our government has been morphed into in the last 15 years.