'Real Sports' Segment Mentioning OU Football

[Soonerwake]

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-football-tuesday-nights-real-sports-segment-reveals-nothing-shocking-or-controversial-about-ou/article/3946835

This is alot of nothing, especially since the OU advisors did nothing wrong.

[Soonerjeepman]

Maybe so...but the bad press won't be good. Yes, everyone realizes EVERY MAJOR D1 program does this but it's OU that they show. Why not bama, lsu, neb, mich, ut, even the beloved pac 12 schools....?

Why pair them with unc and memphis? really ? they are not crap in football...maybe they focus on bball with them.

As a teacher in an urban area, yes a LOT of kids are below grade level...can't keep all of them and repeat. It ALL starts at HOME.

[KantoSooner]

While OU does a generally solid job with its athletes (and provides very significant academic support for all students) it is an area in which the university should put in extra effort in order to excel.
We could, and should, make it into a selling point.

[badger]

Apparently the highlight of the show is a former Memphis defensive lineman Dasmine Cathey showing how he used to practice reading "Green Eggs and Ham" in his dorm room. Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/sports/ou/ou-sports-questions-answers-ahead-of-tuesday-s-hbo-report/article_51793566-b419-11e3-9d06-001a4bcf6878.html)

This is not the only time I've raised my eyebrows at OU issuing "multidisciplinary studies" degrees to athletes recently. But, athletes also are premed (Taylor Griffin) and biochemistry (Joanna McFarland), so you could argue that your student-athlete education is what you make of it

[picasso]

The story in the Oklahoman had more quotes from the OU player.
I commented that I should sue my alma mater for not steering me away from my fine arts major.

[Salt City Sooner]

Gabe Ikard ‏@GabeIkard ·9 hrs
Interested to see what @HBO 's Real Sports is going to say about my Multidisciplinary Studies degree. Wonder why they didn't interview me?

https://twitter.com/GabeIkard

[achiro]

I haven't seen it yet but based on what I've heard on various news outlets I'm going to say this. Your life is what YOU make of it. There are lots of people out there with lots of degrees that can't find jobs and they actually have to pay for their college education. If you don't like the classes you are in, change them. If you fail calculus, thats on YOU. If you go all the way through high school and college without the ability to read, thats on YOU. Having zero initiative throughout your life and expecting a college degree to magically hand you everything is all on YOU.

[badger]

I didn't watch yet (it was later so I DVR'd it). How did OU look?

Eric Mensik said here (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ou/football/former-ou-football-player-eric-mensik-answers-questions-about-his/article_92d61286-b469-11e3-9f73-001a4bcf6878.html) that he wasn't bitter and that he called his degree a "football degree" as a joke, not out of spite or frustration. He also said that it was his decision to pursue "multidisciplinary studies" after failing an accounting course, rather than take longer to graduate and continue pursuing a business degree.

Without seeing it, it sounds like they may have set him up a bit

[sooneron]

Without seeing it, it sounds like they may have set him up a bit

NEVER say anything to the press that is tongue in cheek. Especially, if it is not how you feel about a certain subject. Dumb on his part.

[badger]

Y'know, how many of us would have majored in football at the University of Oklahoma if given the chance. I mean, your department head is Bob Stoops and his tenured staff (well, till the offseason before last we all thought they have life contracts, heh) is one of the best in the country.

Of course, we might not be that employable after graduating with our football degrees, but wow it would have been fun for four years... six years if you blow two ACLs

[KantoSooner]

You have to understand that the press does not interview anyone as part of their 'research'. They interview in order to gain quotes and material to support conclusions reached long before they ever contacted the interviewee. If you don't have something of an ongoing nature that they want (and thus a hammer over their heads to enforce good behavior), you can count on your words being twisted into whatever the most sensational spin on them can possibly be regardless of the simple truth of whatever is being presented.
I don't especially blame journalists: most of life is mundane and they need to anchor butts to seats and sell soap flakes. That's their business.
Mensik is young and was simply collateral damage on the way to some journo's headline. Luckily he looks to be not too hurt by the affair.

[Herr Scholz]

Yes, everyone realizes EVERY MAJOR D1 program does this but it's OU that they show. Why not bama, lsu, neb, mich, ut, even the beloved pac 12 schools....?
Incorrect. UT doesn't offer a general studies/multi-discipline type degree. That's why it's harder for jucos to transfer to UT than other schools, because all of their credits have to apply to a specific degree plan. Probably why UT wasn't mentioned. Just an FYI.

[Soonerjeepman]

Y'know, how many of us would have majored in football at the University of Oklahoma if given the chance. I mean, your department head is Bob Stoops and his tenured staff (well, till the offseason before last we all thought they have life contracts, heh) is one of the best in the country.

Of course, we might not be that employable after graduating with our football degrees, but wow it would have been fun for four years... six years if you blow two ACLs

if you were a DECENT football person, I'd imagine SOME insurance company would love to employ a former football degree person...but again, it'd be up to you.

[Herr Scholz]

Have you seen the HBO show? Your former O lineman, who graduated with this "multi-discipline" degree, is working an office job that doesn't require a college education. Your former advisor quit because he couldn't stomach funneling your players to a degree he knew was worthless anymore. Your own guys called this fraud.

[KantoSooner]

Herr, good to see you back. Now don't go ruin it with vast overstatements. Either that or we might start talking about the number of UT players who take some? the majority? all? their classes at other UT system schools in the area that are a bit more....eh....'non-rigorous' than UT Austin.
As I recall, more than a few UT players had to initial their pro contracts with a black crayon held in their fist with a tongue stuck out of the corner of their mouth.
Or we could talk about Vince 'Radio' Young, who seems about three steps ahead of Human Services appointing a minder...and proudly sports his UT degree. (Which, really, says it all. If Vince gets a degree, they must come in exchange for three box tops and $0.25 with a postage paid return addressed envelope. But, no, Vince wouldn't have been able to put that qualifying package together. Maybe someone from the team helped him on the return address part; "Where I sleep" is not enough for the USPS to go on, good as they are.)

[Herr Scholz]

Not overstating anything. I'm quoting your former advisor verbatim. He called it "fraud". You're knowingly keeping your student athletes eligible and the OU athletic department from being hurt from the new graduation rules by pushing kids into a worthless degree. Your former player and former advisor said it, not me. Blame HBO for pointing it out.

As far as UT goes, many students (not just athletes) take some core requirement courses (history, government, etc.) at jucos at home during summer months. And VY earned a degree in education. Call him dumb all you want but he worked hard for that and didn't give up on it. Good for him and he's the first in his family to earn a college degree btw. But if you want to talk about academic integrity of our respective institutions, I'd be happy to have that discussion. Our guys actually have to earn their degrees as evidenced by us having academic casualties every single season. OU cannot claim that.

[KantoSooner]

Oh, bull****. On the academic casualty thingie.
If you've stopped by to simply sling invective, then, great, you've achieved your goal.
If you've read anything about the article, you'd be pretty much in the camp that the quotes were twisted and the player himself is not torqued.
If you honestly are proposing that there are signficant differnces in IQ or academic acheivement between OU and UT players, then I must seriously question your academic credentials.

[Eielson]

Not overstating anything. I'm quoting your former advisor verbatim. He called it "fraud". You're knowingly keeping your student athletes eligible and the OU athletic department from being hurt from the new graduation rules by pushing kids into a worthless degree. Your former player and former advisor said it, not me. Blame HBO for pointing it out.

As far as UT goes, many students (not just athletes) take some core requirement courses (history, government, etc.) at jucos at home during summer months. And VY earned a degree in education. Call him dumb all you want but he worked hard for that and didn't give up on it. Good for him and he's the first in his family to earn a college degree btw. But if you want to talk about academic integrity of our respective institutions, I'd be happy to have that discussion. Our guys actually have to earn their degrees as evidenced by us having academic casualties every single season. OU cannot claim that.

You may not have "multi-disciplinary studies," but I'm sure you have your share of majors along the lines of human relations, sociology, communications, etc. VY is notoriously lacking in the mental department, so I find it odd that you could use him as proof that Texas players are earning their degrees. I'm very confident that VY had a few strings pulled just to get into a university like UT. You think he stood a chance to get accepted if he wasn't a football player?

I absolutely think the system is a joke, but don't call out OU for something that almost every legitimate football program in the country does. Sure, Texas has higher academic standards for their football program, but they have higher academic standards for their entire school.

Mensik was a grown man, and he made a decision. Do I think it was a poor one? Yeah, it probably was, but let's not pretend like a 12 year old was unknowingly taken advantage of. He knew what he was doing. Multi-disciplinary studies isn't a joke of a major unless it is abused. I know of more than one person going into pharmacy school that majored in multi-disciplinary studies. It allowed them to customize their degree to what best fit them.

Also, Mensik didn't switch majors until his Junior year, correct? Could he not go back to school for a few semesters and finish up what he had left in his business degree?

[stoopified]

I guess my niece(who is on academic scholly) is now an employee of Brown University.

[mainline13]

I haven't seen it yet but based on what I've heard on various news outlets I'm going to say this. Your life is what YOU make of it. There are lots of people out there with lots of degrees that can't find jobs and they actually have to pay for their college education. If you don't like the classes you are in, change them. If you fail calculus, thats on YOU. If you go all the way through high school and college without the ability to read, thats on YOU. Having zero initiative throughout your life and expecting a college degree to magically hand you everything is all on YOU.

My degree can't find a job either.

[8timechamps]

Have you seen the HBO show? Your former O lineman, who graduated with this "multi-discipline" degree, is working an office job that doesn't require a college education. Your former advisor quit because he couldn't stomach funneling your players to a degree he knew was worthless anymore. Your own guys called this fraud.

You're kidding, right?! A college graduate working an office job that doesn't require a degree?! That can't be!!!!1! Someone call the president! I thought a college degree meant an employer HAD to hire you and you HAD to make more than the scum that didn't have a degree!!!! What's the world coming to?!

Seriously though, the advisor that quit, didn't really quit. He's still on staff at OU. I'm not sure why he left that role, but I highly doubt it was out of guilt.

There is nothing to see here, as it does happen at every school. Even Texas. You may not offer a multi-disciplinary degree, but I bet there are degrees some football players are "guided" to, and I bet they aren't engineering. Long ago, it was communications, but I guarantee you that there is a 'football' degree at schools that don't offer a multi-disciplinary degree.

The real story in the segment was what happened at UNC. Even that is suspect, as the original report has been questioned.

Look, there are kids at EVERY school in the country playing football, and they probably aren't really that smart, and they probably don't belong in college. But, that's how it's always been, and it's probably never going to change. And yes, Texas has those players too.

[picasso]

Good lord, nobody is going to argue the status of UT's standards and such but we're talking football here! OU can line up just as many successful student athletes off the field as Texas. Same as a sorry list of failures.
Get over yourself.

[Herr Scholz]

Oh, bull****. On the academic casualty thingie.

No it's not. Your guys skate by. Ours don't. We have ineligible players every single year. You absolutely don't. If not, please give me the exhaustive list of academically ineligible OU football players under Stoops' entire career there. I believe you can use one hand to count them all.

[Herr Scholz]

If you honestly are proposing that there are signficant differnces in IQ or academic acheivement between OU and UT players, then I must seriously question your academic credentials.
No, I'm pointing out the obvious differences in academic integrity of the respective institutions (general study degree vs none, academically ineligible players vs very few, etc). The HBO piece probably didn't do much to change the perception that OU is a juco football factory. Talk to them about it.

[Herr Scholz]

Seriously though, the advisor that quit, didn't really quit. He's still on staff at OU. I'm not sure why he left that role, but I highly doubt it was out of guilt.
You might want to watch the interview before making that claim. He called it "fraud" and "he couldn't stomach it anymore".

[BoomerMcSooner]

And VY earned a degree in education.

Vince Young earned his degree in "Youth and Community Studies", a clear case of a "football degree" if there ever was one!

As reported in the Washington Post (1/7/2010): "NCAA pressure on universities to improve athletes' graduation rates perversely encourages suspicious concentrations of athletes in particular majors. In a recent year, 41 percent of Texas football players were majoring in youth and community services, compared to 0.2 percent of all students; 78.4 percent of Michigan's were in general studies, compared to 1.6 percent of all students there."

Looking at Texas' most recent press release of graduating student athletes (12/7/2013), there are 29 athletes, 10 football players, and 5 "Youth and Community Studies" majors. All 5 of the athletes listed with that major were football players.

Why do you think football players are 200 times more likely to major in "Youth and Community Studies" than the rest of the student body at the University of Texas?

According to the University of Texas, "The Youth and Community Studies major is designed for students preparing to work with children in a variety of settings that do not require teacher certification. Students who choose this degree option are given flexibility to select courses ..."

Texas suggests the career path for this degree, "Examples of career options include directing youth programs at the YMCA, Parks and Recreation Departments, daycare centers, after-school programs, and government agencies related to childcare."

Perusing Monster.Com, job openings for these types of opportunities are largely part-time, low-pay, and rarely have a college degree requirement (although it is occasionally listed as preferred.)

[olevetonahill]

No it's not. Your guys skate by. Ours don't. We have ineligible players every single year. You absolutely don't. If not, please give me the exhaustive list of academically ineligible OU football players under Stoops' entire career there. I believe you can use one hand to count them all.

Hows that HARD to earn Education degree workin out fer radio?

[Sooner in Tampa]

AHHHHHH fukc, here we go with the SUPERIOR UT academic standards and how they hold them back bullspit again...

[starclassic tama]

Vince Young earned his degree in "Youth and Community Studies", a clear case of a "football degree" if there ever was one!

As reported in the Washington Post (1/7/2010): "NCAA pressure on universities to improve athletes' graduation rates perversely encourages suspicious concentrations of athletes in particular majors. In a recent year, 41 percent of Texas football players were majoring in youth and community services, compared to 0.2 percent of all students; 78.4 percent of Michigan's were in general studies, compared to 1.6 percent of all students there."

Looking at Texas' most recent press release of graduating student athletes (12/7/2013), there are 29 athletes, 10 football players, and 5 "Youth and Community Studies" majors. All 5 of the athletes listed with that major were football players.

Why do you think football players are 200 times more likely to major in "Youth and Community Studies" than the rest of the student body at the University of Texas?

According to the University of Texas, "The Youth and Community Studies major is designed for students preparing to work with children in a variety of settings that do not require teacher certification. Students who choose this degree option are given flexibility to select courses ..."

Texas suggests the career path for this degree, "Examples of career options include directing youth programs at the YMCA, Parks and Recreation Departments, daycare centers, after-school programs, and government agencies related to childcare."

Perusing Monster.Com, job openings for these types of opportunities are largely part-time, low-pay, and rarely have a college degree requirement (although it is occasionally listed as preferred.)

Don't bring your facts into this. They don't play well with Herr's ridiculous rhetoric.

[BoomerMcSooner]

No, I'm pointing out the obvious differences in academic integrity of the respective institutions (general study degree vs none, academically ineligible players vs very few, etc).

You are making two unsupported claims here:

1. That the lack of a "general study degree" demonstrates "academic integrity". Currently there are 51 schools ranked above Texas in USA Today's national college rankings. These include strong football schools such as Ohio State, Florida, Miami, Penn State, USC, Notre Dame, Cal, and Stanford. All of these schools are ranked above Texas in academics. Most have some sort of interdisciplinary studies programs.

2. You claim that Texas' problems with failing athletic students is a sign of academic integrity. If true, other schools with higher academic standards should have similar problems.

Before asking for a list of OU football academic casualties, I'd suggest the burden is on you to contrast the football academic casualties at a school like Texas vs a school like Stanford and make your case regarding what it says about the academic integrity of the two schools. Until then, your claim that failing footballs players = academic integrity would appear to be subjective hogwash without any supporting data.

[KantoSooner]

Herr, I've listened to UT players attempt the English language, after 'graduation'. If you really want to continue your jeremiad asserting that these folks are Rhodes Scholars, compared to poor, abused OU players, go right ahead. It's not making you look very rational.

Further, it's rather ridiculous to engage in chest beating regardiing the academic standing of any land grant university. Pure academic achievement is not now and never has been the core mission of any such school. If you want that, go to a Harvard or Yale for a university or an Amherst, Williams or the like for a college. Failure to take this into account renders arguments on the matter sort of silly.

[badger]

I finally watched the DVR of it last night. Very short, wouldn't be surprised if it was on the internet somewhere. go kill 10 minutes and watch it if you want.

i don't think the ou guy was necessarily against the ou system per se, but the system in general that tries to con everyone into thinking student-athletes are students before athletes, or even remotely like other students.

erik mensik's participation was not on the same level as the memphis player that was reading dr. seuss. i'm not really sure why he agreed to be interviewed for such a program, nor am i sure why they pursued him for this.

[BoomerMcSooner]

'm not really sure why he agreed to be interviewed for such a program, nor am i sure why they pursued him for this.

If you Google, "multidisciplinary studies", OU is on the first page, and is the only big-time football program on the first page. Perhaps the producers did a similar search in looking for supporting stories, and started fishing from there?

[Eielson]

Vince Young earned his degree in "Youth and Community Studies", a clear case of a "football degree" if there ever was one!

As reported in the Washington Post (1/7/2010): "NCAA pressure on universities to improve athletes' graduation rates perversely encourages suspicious concentrations of athletes in particular majors. In a recent year, 41 percent of Texas football players were majoring in youth and community services, compared to 0.2 percent of all students; 78.4 percent of Michigan's were in general studies, compared to 1.6 percent of all students there."

Looking at Texas' most recent press release of graduating student athletes (12/7/2013), there are 29 athletes, 10 football players, and 5 "Youth and Community Studies" majors. All 5 of the athletes listed with that major were football players.

Why do you think football players are 200 times more likely to major in "Youth and Community Studies" than the rest of the student body at the University of Texas?

According to the University of Texas, "The Youth and Community Studies major is designed for students preparing to work with children in a variety of settings that do not require teacher certification. Students who choose this degree option are given flexibility to select courses ..."

Texas suggests the career path for this degree, "Examples of career options include directing youth programs at the YMCA, Parks and Recreation Departments, daycare centers, after-school programs, and government agencies related to childcare."

Perusing Monster.Com, job openings for these types of opportunities are largely part-time, low-pay, and rarely have a college degree requirement (although it is occasionally listed as preferred.)

Wow. This ends the debates.

I'm used to Herr coming on here and making most of the posters look silly. He's obviously more informed than the average member on this board, but if this is legit, he looks very foolish here. Just about everything he said is invalidated by this "Youth and Community Studies" degree. At least with multidisciplinary studies you have the option of taking difficult classes. Youth and Community Studies sounds like it was made specifically for football players...who goes to a college like UT to be a stay at home mom? Multidisciplinary is a legitimate degree plan, it just happens to be abused by football players and others.

Mensik may not have needed a degree to get his office job, but VY can only use his degree to get a daycare/babysitter position. If I was good with photoshop, I would fark VY's face on Eddie Murphy.

2800

[Eielson]

...who goes to a college like UT to be a stay at home mom?

On second thought, I know of lots of people who did this. They weren't men, though.

[FaninAma]

Have you seen the HBO show? Your former O lineman, who graduated with this "multi-discipline" degree, is working an office job that doesn't require a college education. Your former advisor quit because he couldn't stomach funneling your players to a degree he knew was worthless anymore. Your own guys called this fraud.
I only have 3 words for you: Vince "Wonderlic" Young.

[FaninAma]

No it's not. Your guys skate by. Ours don't. We have ineligible players every single year. You absolutely don't. If not, please give me the exhaustive list of academically ineligible OU football players under Stoops' entire career there. I believe you can use one hand to count them all.

Edit: BoomerMcSooner's posts were the perfect reply to Herr. I guess Herr disppeared after that massive beat down.

[KantoSooner]

Darn! We never got around to discussing the magical transformation of student 'A' from mumbliing nincompoop when considering matriculation to OU to Werner von Braun Jr. when he changes his mind and opts for UT.

It's one of those 'SEC Speed' kinds of things.

[BoomerMcSooner]

but if this is legit, he looks very foolish here.

It is legit. Here (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/bruce-feldman/22259780/vince-young-graduating-from-ut-even-tops-winning-a-national-title) and here (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/05/vince-young-celebrated-texas-graduation-at-vince-young-steakhouse/) are links citing Young's major in youth and community studies. Here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010603914.html) is the Washington Post article I quoted pointing to the clustering of Texas football players in this major. Here (http://www.texassports.com/news/2013/12/7/academics_1207133634.aspx?path=lfoundation) is a link to Texas' recent athlete graduates showing the clustering of football players in youth and community services (note it looks like it is actually 6 of 11 football players in this major among most recent graduates.) Here (http://www.edb.utexas.edu/education/departments/undergrad/ald/ycs/) is the the link on the Texas website describing the major and career path.

Speaking of foolish...

Herr argues that more academic casualties in football is demonstration of greater academic integrity...Turns out LSU has more academic casualties in football than Stanford does yearly...So he is arguing that this data point shows LSU's greater commitment to academic integrity than Stanford...

[KantoSooner]

But, but, but Boooooomer, such clustering not just in athletes in general but in the football player sub-group in particular could not be a random data anomaly. It would indicate some positive, active force sorting the UT football players into those majors. And that would indicate.....

Oh, my.

[GDC]

Bwahaha…good job of shutting the whorn down!

[picasso]

Darn! We never got around to discussing the magical transformation of student 'A' from mumbliing nincompoop when considering matriculation to OU to Werner von Braun Jr. when he changes his mind and opts for UT.

It's one of those 'SEC Speed' kinds of things.
Nazi Rocket Science QB at UT?

Damn impressive! You guys should print more Keep Norman Dumb shirts.

[8timechamps]

You might want to watch the interview before making that claim. He called it "fraud" and "he couldn't stomach it anymore".

I've watched the episode. I don't believe everything I hear/see on TV. I'll stick to my point; I don't know why he left the position, but I highly doubt it was out of guilt. He is still on staff at OU, if it bothered him that much, why didn't he leave?! I'll give you the answer...because it didn't.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Not overstating anything. I'm quoting your former advisor verbatim. He called it "fraud". You're knowingly keeping your student athletes eligible and the OU athletic department from being hurt from the new graduation rules by pushing kids into a worthless degree. Your former player and former advisor said it, not me. Blame HBO for pointing it out.

As far as UT goes, many students (not just athletes) take some core requirement courses (history, government, etc.) at jucos at home during summer months. And VY earned a degree in education. Call him dumb all you want but he worked hard for that and didn't give up on it. Good for him and he's the first in his family to earn a college degree btw. But if you want to talk about academic integrity of our respective institutions, I'd be happy to have that discussion. Our guys actually have to earn their degrees as evidenced by us having academic casualties every single season. OU cannot claim that.

Perhaps he should've worked really hard to find a finance class to take.

Perhaps UT could set up a partner program https://www.twu.edu/genstudies/, UT players meet the general requirement.

[Eielson]

Something tells me we've seen the last of Herr in this thread.

[Soonerjeepman]

so, Herr, young earned a degree in education, which I have...how did he do on his tests for certification?

He'll end up being a classroom aide to coach football. $10 an hour for the aide job, $35,000 to coach football...if he can even do that.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Have you seen the HBO show? Your former O lineman, who graduated with this "multi-discipline" degree, is working an office job that doesn't require a college education. Your former advisor quit because he couldn't stomach funneling your players to a degree he knew was worthless anymore. Your own guys called this fraud.


What a ******. You mean that texas doesn't have any softball degrees for morons like VY? Great to hear from you again Herr.



Edit: As I read through the thread, I eventually saw that Herr was easily dispatched. I defer to Boomer McSooner. Can we trade Herr for Lid?

[Salt City Sooner]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/-real-sports--interview-doesn-t-tell-the-whole-story-of-fomer-oklahoma-ol-eric-mensik-193251693.html

[picasso]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/-real-sports--interview-doesn-t-tell-the-whole-story-of-fomer-oklahoma-ol-eric-mensik-193251693.html
I like the comments at the bottom. People like to sensationalize things like Switzer's players, ignoring the brilliant Selmon brothers, senators and preachers he coached.
I guess they can't all be scholars like the Tejas players.

[sooneron]

Incorrect. UT doesn't offer a general studies/multi-discipline type degree. That's why it's harder for jucos to transfer to UT than other schools, because all of their credits have to apply to a specific degree plan. Probably why UT wasn't mentioned. Just an FYI.

I really hope that you were giggling uncontrollably when you typed this. Laughing about how you were over here trolling the Sooner fans and all...

if not, you might be the most naive **** to have ever attended ut. srsly.

[picasso]

Was his last comment in reply to me? If so, he completely missed my point.

[Soonerwake]

Vince Young earned his degree in "Youth and Community Studies", a clear case of a "football degree" if there ever was one!

As reported in the Washington Post (1/7/2010): "NCAA pressure on universities to improve athletes' graduation rates perversely encourages suspicious concentrations of athletes in particular majors. In a recent year, 41 percent of Texas football players were majoring in youth and community services, compared to 0.2 percent of all students; 78.4 percent of Michigan's were in general studies, compared to 1.6 percent of all students there."

Looking at Texas' most recent press release of graduating student athletes (12/7/2013), there are 29 athletes, 10 football players, and 5 "Youth and Community Studies" majors. All 5 of the athletes listed with that major were football players.

Why do you think football players are 200 times more likely to major in "Youth and Community Studies" than the rest of the student body at the University of Texas?

According to the University of Texas, "The Youth and Community Studies major is designed for students preparing to work with children in a variety of settings that do not require teacher certification. Students who choose this degree option are given flexibility to select courses ..."

Texas suggests the career path for this degree, "Examples of career options include directing youth programs at the YMCA, Parks and Recreation Departments, daycare centers, after-school programs, and government agencies related to childcare."

Perusing Monster.Com, job openings for these types of opportunities are largely part-time, low-pay, and rarely have a college degree requirement (although it is occasionally listed as preferred.)

Post of the year.. I have never seen a self-righteous, we are the almighty, horn go away so fast. Wow!!

[Herr Scholz]

Sorry, was just doing a drive by last week. I never claimed every degree plan at UT was rocket science. Some are definitely more rigorous than others. I simply claimed that A) our student athletes are at least forced to earn theirs as evidenced by our respective numbers of academically ineligible players year in and year out - that's where the academic integrity comment entered into this and B) we don't have a general studies "invent your own theme" degree like at OU with this "multi-disciplinary" fraud and joke of a degree (your former athlete and advisor's words btw, not mine).

At least our degrees have specific plans and every student has to earn it. Oh, and we're also ranked in the top 100 universities in the country. So there's also that...

[CobraKai]

Wow. This ends the debates.

I'm used to Herr coming on here and making most of the posters look silly. He's obviously more informed than the average member on this board, but if this is legit, he looks very foolish here. Just about everything he said is invalidated by this "Youth and Community Studies" degree. At least with multidisciplinary studies you have the option of taking difficult classes. Youth and Community Studies sounds like it was made specifically for football players...who goes to a college like UT to be a stay at home mom? Multidisciplinary is a legitimate degree plan, it just happens to be abused by football players and others.

Mensik may not have needed a degree to get his office job, but VY can only use his degree to get a daycare/babysitter position. If I was good with photoshop, I would fark VY's face on Eddie Murphy.

2800

What really ends the debate is that Vince got a 6-7 on the Wonderlic. According to the organization that administers the test, 10 is considered "literate." In other words, Texas graduated an illiterate guy. Additionally, as Herr has pointed out, Texas has NO easy paths for athletes. This means that an illiterate person can graduate from Texas without any special treatment.

[Herr Scholz]

I love how you guys just call Vince "dumb" and think that ends the debate. A) That score was quoted as incorrect and B) He scored a 16 or something when administered correctly. The fact remains that OU is a juco football factory. Blame HBO for running the story. Blame your former advisor for calling that degree plan "fraud". Blame your former player for calling it "worthless". While you're at it, blame ESPN for putting Stoops on blast for yanking that injured Matt Beyer's scholarship. I guess it's never the fault of OU, just the messenger. But hang your hat on VY some more. That's what you'll do anyway.

[KantoSooner]

We could choose one of the many other scholar athletes who supplement their insufficient stipends through sales of narcotics, general theft or armed robbery.
I mean I know Austin is expensive, but sheesh.

[picasso]

VY is an easy target because he somehow managed to stay enrolled at such an impeccable, first class institution.
You have your head in the sand if you think all of your football players are first class scholars.
I'm also constantly imoressed by your hard-on for Stoops. You pick and choose with your criticisms and turn a blind eye to examples of players he's kept on scholarship although physically unable to play any longer.
You're cool.

[olevetonahill]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...

Who Give s Rats ***? Yer still Saxet, You still wear UGLY assed Orange and you Still Suck.

[BoomerMcSooner]

A) our student athletes are at least forced to earn theirs as evidenced by our respective numbers of academically ineligible players year in and year out - that's where the academic integrity comment entered into this

What do LSU and Texas have in common? Higher numbers of football players flunking.
What do Stanford and Oklahoma have in common? Lower numbers of football players flunking than Texas or LSU.

You really want to claim LSU has more academic integrity than Stanford by virtue having more flunking football players?

Fine...

In that case, let's christen the Herr Scholz Law of Academic Integrity (TM): More failing football players = greater academic integrity...Less failing football players = less academic integrity.

According to Herr Scholz' Law, if Strong or future Texas coaches do not maintain the high level of flunking football players that existed in the Mack Brown era, it will be evidence of Texas abandoning academic integrity and letting players skate by.

It will be funny to watch you weasel out of your law when a future Texas coach puts more emphasis on academic accountability.

[BoomerMcSooner]

The fact remains that OU is a juco football factory.

It was funny watching Longhorns convince themselves that Mack Brown's "no JUCO" philosophy had something to do with academic integrity prior to 2012...

But given Texas' recent push to sign JUCOs, it is just kind of sad to watch ignorant Horns cling to their delusions.

Hookem.com: Horns target junior college recruits like never before (http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/college-football/horns-target-junior-college-recruits-like-never-be/nTG3g/)


For years in the Mack Brown era at Texas, recruitment of junior college prospects was treated like an airborne illness. It was to be avoided at all costs.
But, as has been the case with several aspects of the Longhorns’ program in recent years, the 5-7 season of 2010 changed the way Brown and his staff do things.
Texas’ 2012 signing class was the first in more than a decade in which Brown offered scholarships to and signed junior college recruits: left tackle Donald Hawkins and defensive tackle Brandon Moore.
So far, the Longhorns have made four offers to junior college players for this year’s class. They have a high level of interest in a fifth prospect and are on the hunt for more.

[picasso]

To say we're a JUCO factory isn't very bright.
K-State is a JUCO factory.

[KantoSooner]

Just to be clear, what's the rap on JUCO's? Are they presumed to not meet academic standards? Are they presumed to be somehow less 'loyal' to their new school? It would seem to me that they have to meet the same standards that people who joined as freshmen are held to. What's the big deal?
Likewise walkon's. If we're going to condemn JUCO's to some sort of second rate status, shouldn't we relegate walkon's as well? Afterall, they weren't offered schollies.

[picasso]

Well according to HS they are second class citizens. Sounds very stereotypical.
My oldest sister's husband was a JUCO in two sports in the 70's. Ended up in D-1 football and is now president of an energy company in Houston. How the hell could that happen?

[KantoSooner]

The whole comparison of academic standards thing is more than a bit bogus to start with. You've got factors like the amount of research money the state puts in as well as the size and structure of the state university system that are taken into account when 'rating' universities.
To look at a non-related example: Berkeley is part of the Cal system and no one would argue that their standards are not quite high. But let's not bash UCLA because of that. Berkeley cherry picks students by design. That's how their state system is set up. Same thing with UT in the Texas system. ...and for that matter with OU, but to a lesser degree due to a smaller population base. The fact that Texas can then farm out its athletes to local 'lesser-included' state institutions, while largely an accident of history is not one that seems to have resulted in much hand wringiing in the halls of the football department.

[Herr Scholz]

What do LSU and Texas have in common? Higher numbers of football players flunking.
What do Stanford and Oklahoma have in common? Lower numbers of football players flunking than Texas or LSU.

You really want to claim LSU has more academic integrity than Stanford by virtue having more flunking football players?

Fine...

In that case, let's christen the Herr Scholz Law of Academic Integrity (TM): More failing football players = greater academic integrity...Less failing football players = less academic integrity.

According to Herr Scholz' Law, if Strong or future Texas coaches do not maintain the high level of flunking football players that existed in the Mack Brown era, it will be evidence of Texas abandoning academic integrity and letting players skate by.

It will be funny to watch you weasel out of your law when a future Texas coach puts more emphasis on academic accountability.

That's right, Einstein. Just like the illiterate functional retards at the old Nebraska program were never ineligible. Thanks for proving my point about OU "academics" though. :triumphant:

[Herr Scholz]

It was funny watching Longhorns convince themselves that Mack Brown's "no JUCO" philosophy had something to do with academic integrity prior to 2012...

But given Texas' recent push to sign JUCOs, it is just kind of sad to watch ignorant Horns cling to their delusions.

Hookem.com: Horns target junior college recruits like never before (http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/college-football/horns-target-junior-college-recruits-like-never-be/nTG3g/)
You missed my point. I'm not saying UT doesn't recruit jucos. It's definitely more difficult at UT because we don't offer the joke of a general studies "multi-discipline" degree like the OUs and KSUs of the world and all of the transfers' credits have to apply to specific degree programs but our baseball program has relied on jucos from time to time over the years. No, my point is that OU in and of itself is a juco. It's obviously very easy to stay eligible up there gaining expertise in absolutely no academic program whatsoever. And OU is not ranked in the top 100 universities in the country so even the real degree programs don't carry much weight either.

[olevetonahill]

Remind me WHO thot it would be CUTE to turn Herr Green?

[BoomerMcSooner]

That's right, Einstein. Just like the illiterate functional retards at the old Nebraska program were never ineligible. Thanks for proving my point about OU "academics" though. :triumphant:

HAHAHA...Your "triumphant" emoticon reminds me of A&M's Jolly dancing around after our RB dove to the turf so as not to run the score up past 77-0.

I understand that you don't want to defend the academic rigor of UT's Daycare Major that your football players are so fond of.

I understand that you are too humiliated to defend the laughable implications of your claim that flunking football players are representative of academic integrity.

Perhaps if you pack some critical thinking skills with you on your next drive-by, you won't be reduced to the pathetic "Now that all of my arguments have been destroyed, I'm going to call you dumb" tactic.

[EatLeadCommie]

You missed my point. I'm not saying UT doesn't recruit jucos. It's definitely more difficult at UT because we don't offer the joke of a general studies "multi-discipline" degree like the OUs and KSUs of the world and all of the transfers' credits have to apply to specific degree programs but our baseball program has relied on jucos from time to time over the years. No, my point is that OU in and of itself is a juco. It's obviously very easy to stay eligible up there gaining expertise in absolutely no academic program whatsoever. And OU is not ranked in the top 100 universities in the country so even the real degree programs don't carry much weight either.

Oh, I see. Since OU isn't in the top 100 universities, it must be the equivalent of a Juco. The UT superiority complex strikes again. Do you put as much stock in those academic rankings when you discuss the football programs of Florida and Ohio State, because both of those schools are ranked ahead of UT in the USNWR rankings.

As somebody who actually went to and graduated from an academically rigorous institution, I can say with some authority that even the athletes there gravitated toward degrees like communication and sociology, which were noteworthy for being "easy" majors, not to mention useless. Now you can sit there and parse between communcation, general studies, or any other major, but it's just putting lipstick on a pig. Concluding that UT's "football major" is more challenging than OU's simply because it is called something more to your liking is pretty stupid.

You really should get off your high horse. You can go to the greatest school in the world, but if you get your degree in something useless, it's not going to amount to a hill of beans. And if you can't speak without sounding like an ***, it doesn't matter what your degree is or what school you attended.

[badger]

Ah academic smack. Pride cometh before the fall..eth. Just wait till another dumdum comes along with something even more embarrassing than a (reportedly) low Wonderlic score.

[BoomerMcSooner]

And if you can't speak without sounding like an ***, it doesn't matter what your degree is or what school you attended.

In fairness to Texas fans, most of them are pretty embarrassed by folks like Herr.

I've lived in Austin for over 20 years, and seen this argument in person many times. While folks like Herr are good at convincing themselves of what they want to believe, most Texas fans are appalled when this stunning lack of rationality is put on display in public.

[KantoSooner]

I think you're getting closer to the kernel at the center of this thing ELC. Why are Texans so worried about asserting superiority in all things? It's a big state (though I enjoyed, when living in Anchorage, having Alaskans sigh wearily and tell Texans to shut their pie holes or Alaska would split in two and make Texas the third largest state), it's rich, it's populous, it has had at least its share of famous and noteworthy sons and daughters. And yet it's never quite enough. Like the obnoxious neighbor who spoils his own life and those of others around him 'keeping up with the Joneses', Texans seem to have this black hole of an inferiority complex deep inside.
It's really more pathetic than anything else. UT is a fine academic institution. As with any such, if you apply yourself, you can get an excellent education there. Not everyone will, and some probably don't have the horsepower to. But it's not the world's center of learning. In all liklihood, it's not the world center of much of anything in higher education. Again, it's a fine university and one of which the people of Texas should be proud, and justifiably so. It's just not Mount Olympus.
Why Texans seem to feel that they have to be the best or nothing at all is beyond me. It's infantile on a shocking scale. But, that seems to be what they're about. I suppose the best course of action is to humor them along and hope for some degree of maturity to break out spontaneously among them.
Pretty vacant hope, I know, but you go with what you've got and I just don't see much else to work with in these people.

[Eielson]

It's definitely more difficult at UT because we don't offer the joke of a general studies "multi-discipline" degree like the OUs and KSUs of the world and all of the transfers' credits have to apply to specific degree programs but our baseball program has relied on jucos from time to time over the years.

What is it that you're missing? Youth and community studies is your "multi-discipline" football degree. Same thing, different name (it's actually easier). Gabe Ikard was a multi-disciplinary studies major and he's going to be a doctor. Your degree produces day care/camp leader/babysitters.


No, my point is that OU in and of itself is a juco. It's obviously very easy to stay eligible up there gaining expertise in absolutely no academic program whatsoever. And OU is not ranked in the top 100 universities in the country so even the real degree programs don't carry much weight either.

Pointing out the academics of your football team is a pretty strong indicator that your football team is struggling on the field. You guys aren't in the top 50...but Rice is. I bet you're envious of Rice's football program, huh?

And a degree at OU carries plenty of weight. Is Texas a better school academically? Sure. But Texas is "juco" compared to Stanford. OU has plenty of room to improve academically, but we've got some world-famous professors, and it's likely that you're beloved university has used some textbooks written by OU professors. Doesn't sound like a juco.

[8timechamps]

I'm going to boil this down to absolute honesty.

I really don't care if OU offers a "football degree". Of course I want the best for the kids that come through the program, but I'm also not naive enough to believe that every football player that steps on campus is really a good candidate for college and/or will make the most of their opportunity. They come to OU to play football, and the education is simply a requirement for many. It's no different at Texas (or most other schools in the country).

When the players have to go head to head in test taking on Saturday's in the fall, I'll start worrying about the IQ level of athletes OU recruits. Until then, I want guys that are really good at playing football.