So Merril Hoge got around to watching some Manziel tape

[achiro]

Not sure if the video will work but it's about time one of the talking heads actually paid attention to what this dude did on the field.
Hoge On Manziel: 'Bust Written All Over Him'

[8timechamps]

Not sure if the video will work but it's about time one of the talking heads actually paid attention to what this dude did on the field.
Hoge On Manziel: 'Bust Written All Over Him'

I don't think I'm following you here.

I watched Maziel play a lot of football, and the guy did A LOT on the field. I'm not saying he's going to light the NFL on fire, but when it comes to playing, he seemed to do that pretty well.

I can't stand the guy (and that opinion was formed well before the Cotton Bowl), but it's hard for me to discredit what he did when he was on the field.

[Curly Bill]

I loved the comment about the pop gun arm, because I too have watched Little Johnny and he's got himself the Colt McCoy edition pop gun arm.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Not sure if the video will work but it's about time one of the talking heads actually paid attention to what this dude did on the field.
Hoge On Manziel: 'Bust Written All Over Him'

From what I saw this morning on that it looked like Hoge looked at only two plays from the same game. He should've shown multiple videos of him not hitting a quick option route, not two separate plays that were unrelated.

He could be a bust but he needs to make a more convincing case than two plays.

[achiro]

He says that he's only showing those two but that film is consistent. 8x what I mean is that he is the epitome of stats aren't always the best way to look at a guy. A LOT of his passes were Hail Mary type crap that his big receiver bailed him out on. He's to quick to run, and pretty slow at picking up the open receiver. It looked to be worse this year than last. He's also very undersized and all of that will hurt him in the NFL. His draft stock has been falling a lot lately and I think it's because people are actually starting to look at film. Try and find the video on ESPN, Merril explains what I've thought about him much better than I can.

[Curly Bill]

Yeah, he said what I've thought all along as well, and previously it had been maddening to have so many of the so-called NFL experts gushing about the fool.

Hoge, Jaws, and a few others have finally had the balls to say what seems apparent to me. I think too many of those other idjits were in fact going off stats, or the highlights which Little Johnny admittedly racked up a lot of, or maybe more truthfully they were hyping him much like ESPiN did Tebow to drum up business.

[swardboy]

Is this the same Merrill Hoge who thought Tebow was a bust when he was winning some games at Denver?

[Curly Bill]

Is this the same Merrill Hoge who thought Tebow was a bust when he was winning some games at Denver?

Where's ol Timmy now? A 1st round draft choice and he's out of the league in what...3 years? That sir is a bust!

[NorthernIowaSooner]

He says that he's only showing those two but that film is consistent.

Ah, I was not paying that much attention to it.

[SoonerDomiNation]

Where's ol Timmy now? A 1st round draft choice and he's out of the league in what...3 years? That sir is a bust!
That sir is as true statement as I've ever seen on here.

[ashley]

Johnny was one of the best college QB's of all time but some of his points were right on. He jumps out of a good pocket much too much. Maybe he can't see but he has to learn to stay in the pocket to be successful in the pros. Sure he can boot and waggle and run to throw but he has to learn to throw from the pocket. Some 6' guys can see from the pocket in the NFL but lots can't. There is a reason there are not many 5'11 1/2 guys playing QB.

[BoulderSooner79]

Is this the same Merrill Hoge who thought Tebow was a bust when he was winning some games at Denver?

It was easy to tell Tebow wouldn't last long even during that magic run for Denver (which I totally enjoyed). But that was only possible because the AFC west was very weak and it allowed an 8-8 team to win the division. Seeing Tebow beat the Steelers on that one pass to Thomas was totally worth his short stint in Denver for me.

[8timechamps]

He says that he's only showing those two but that film is consistent. 8x what I mean is that he is the epitome of stats aren't always the best way to look at a guy. A LOT of his passes were Hail Mary type crap that his big receiver bailed him out on. He's to quick to run, and pretty slow at picking up the open receiver. It looked to be worse this year than last. He's also very undersized and all of that will hurt him in the NFL. His draft stock has been falling a lot lately and I think it's because people are actually starting to look at film. Try and find the video on ESPN, Merril explains what I've thought about him much better than I can.

Okay, I had a chance to watch the video, and it makes more sense now.

I'm not sure I completely agree with Hoge, but he makes some good points. While Manziel made some amazing plays on the field, there were plenty of times I thought "how did he get away with that?!". That's something I don't think translates to the NFL. Guys are too good at that level.

The only reason I don't completely agree with Hoge is because it's so hard to predict what a kid will do from college to the pros. I'll admit though, Hoge makes me think he will probably bust.

[8timechamps]

Where's ol Timmy now? A 1st round draft choice and he's out of the league in what...3 years? That sir is a bust!

Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of a bust.

And this is coming from a guy (me) that was on the Tebow bandwagon while he was starting in Denver.

[colleyvillesooner]

Hoge also never left the VY will be a bust" train even when he was making the playoffs. Said "they hide their QB, thy don't highlight him"

[swardboy]

Where's ol Timmy now? A 1st round draft choice and he's out of the league in what...3 years? That sir is a bust!

Exactly my point. And why I don't discount Hoge's opinion.

[Explodo]

I wonder How Tarkenton would have graded out in this day and age...(And Fran was a third rounder).

I also wonder if that kind of QB(A tarkenton Scramble artist) could survive modern pro players (For more than 2 years)

I'd love to see the experiment happen. Fran was one of my favorites growing up.

[Curly Bill]

Exactly my point. And why I don't discount Hoge's opinion.

My bad, I thought you were trying to take an anti-Hoge angle on this.

Hoge seems to be one of the few analysts that seems willing to state what he really thinks, as opposed to toeing the company line and being just another hype machine.

[badger]

I loved the comment about the pop gun arm, because I too have watched Little Johnny and he's got himself the Colt McCoy edition pop gun arm.

Yeah, I suspect that he's going to be one of those guys that had a lot of success in college but not a lot at the pro level. Colt McCoy at one time had the most wins in D1 football history as a quarterback, then I think the Boise State one surpassed him. Neither made much of anything out of their NFL careers.

Tim Tebow had two national championships a few SEC titles (things Johnny never did at A&M) as well as the Heisman, and he had one good NFL season, thanks to a solid Denver defense.

The list goes on, and I suspect Johnny will be among him. He's (barely) less than 6 feet tall, likes to go into hero mode rather than rely on his o-line and probably got a few character red flag evaluations.

But hey! At least he got a Nike endorsement deal :P

[swardboy]

I wonder How Tarkenton would have graded out in this day and age...(And Fran was a third rounder).

I also wonder if that kind of QB(A tarkenton Scramble artist) could survive modern pro players (For more than 2 years)

I'd love to see the experiment happen. Fran was one of my favorites growing up.

The thing about Tarkenton is, he could throw! His first appearance in a game came his rookie year in a come-from-behind scenario in which he threw for FOUR TD's, and over 250 yards...and a scramble td run, for an upset win. I think he'd be rated right up there with Russell Wilson today.

Edit: Tarkenton said he was fearless in throwing for 3rd and longs because he knew he had a great defense.

[olevetonahill]

I could give 2 ****s for JFF!. He was fun to watch but I dont much care for the punk as a Person. from what Ive seen of him.

[Curly Bill]

Just watched ESPN's First Take and Merril Hoge handed Skip Bayless his a** talking about Little Johnny.

For those that may not know, Bayless has apparently bought stock in Little Johnny, and is almost reduced to tears talking about how magnificent he thinks Little Johnny is, and will be in the NFL.

[olevetonahill]

Just watched ESPN's First Take and Merril Hoge handed Skip Bayless his a** talking about Little Johnny.

For those that may not know, Bayless has apparently bought stock in Little Johnny, and is almost reduced to tears talking about how magnificent he thinks Little Johnny is, and will be in the NFL.

Little Johnny is like that smarmy kid in school that acted all know it all, and we kicked the **** out of.

[PrideMom]

Didn't anyone wonder how Manzell could run around all day, and no holding calls or ineligible receivers down field? The Big XII could use those refs!

[Mjcpr]

Little Johnny is like that smarmy kid in school that acted all know it all, and we kicked the **** out of.

Except that he beat our ***. :D

[BoulderSooner79]

Little Johnny is like that smarmy kid in school that acted all know it all, and we kicked the **** out of.

You ended that sentence with a preposition, but not sure how to fix it.

...out of whom the **** we did kick?

[LakeRat]

Bust or not, I was more like Johnny than Tebow in college. It will be interesting to see how far he falls. I could see him available in the middle of the second round.

[olevetonahill]

You ended that sentence with a preposition, but not sure how to fix it.

...out of whom the **** we did kick?

The little smarmy Know it all kid.

[Breadburner]

Flop....

[SoCalBigRed]

Big difference between Fran and Johnny. Awareness of where his receivers are. Fran also scrambled to save his life. His offensive lines, often sucked. But he would scramble and communicate with his receivers. Manziel runs around, then chucks the ball downfield and hopes his 6'5" receiver catches it.

Unless he stops playing like he's on Red Bull, every time he steps on the field... I don't even give him Tebow's 3 years.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Not watching the video.. That Merrill Hoge has lost all credibility with his Michael Sam > Clowney.

[Curly Bill]

Not watching the video.. That Merrill Hoge has lost all credibility with his Michael Sam > Clowney.

I saw that and it was just awkward and dumb. I don't really think Hoge would take Sam over Clowney.

I think Sam is another bust. He runs like he has a stick up his a**, which of course is not unlikely.

[achiro]

I don't think Hoge was far off on his assessment of Clowney. He did say that if Clowney is willing to work hard that he could make it but that with his work ethic issues that may be a problem.

[swardboy]

Hoge was comparing Clowney to the Buffalo linebacker when I watched him live on First Take. Sam wasn't in the discussion.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Is this the same Merrill Hoge who thought Tebow was a bust when he was winning some games at Denver?

The Denver defense won those games in spite of Tebow.

[Curly Bill]

Hoge was comparing Clowney to the Buffalo linebacker when I watched him live on First Take. Sam wasn't in the discussion.

Hoge has said with the first pick the Buffalo kid should be the choice, but talking later he did compare Clowney and Sam. Basically he said Clowney has freakish athleticism, but isn't a fundamentally sound football player, while Sam is a marginal athlete but works hard and is always in the right spot.

So...Hoge said he would take Sam, meaning down in round 4-6 where it's thought he'll likely go, but wouldn't take Clowney, and though it wasn't specifically stated meaning in the early first round where it's thought he'll likely go.
The other commentator then ask Hoge something like: So, you'd draft Sam and not Clowney, and Hoge rather than provide an explanation to what was obviously a throw away dumas question makes a flippant answer.

[swardboy]

.

[8timechamps]

Not watching the video.. That Merrill Hoge has lost all credibility with his Michael Sam > Clowney.

That was one of my first thoughts, but after watching...Hoge actually makes some valid point. We'll see if he's correct.

[jkjsooner]

Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of a bust.

And this is coming from a guy (me) that was on the Tebow bandwagon while he was starting in Denver.

I don't get how anyone was on the Tebow bandwaggon at Denver? The guy played about as bad as a QB could play for 3 1/2 quarters while the Broncos defense kept them in the game. Sometimes he came back and won the game at the end. Had Denver had an average defense they would have gotten pounded and he wouldn't have lasted more than 3 or 4 games.

[8timechamps]

I don't get how anyone was on the Tebow bandwaggon at Denver? The guy played about as bad as a QB could play for 3 1/2 quarters while the Broncos defense kept them in the game. Sometimes he came back and won the game at the end. Had Denver had an average defense they would have gotten pounded and he wouldn't have lasted more than 3 or 4 games.

I can understand the question, because prior to Tebow arriving in Denver, I didn't understand it much. The only thing I can really say is that he was a leader, and it was very clear when at the games (seeing him on the sidelines). This is a football town, and Denver hadn't done anything in a long time. Even though Tebow was a terrible QB, the way he played (and the fact the he was the QB when the team was winning) made him really popular.

The defense was absolutely the reason Denver made the play-offs that year, but whether anyone likes it, or not, Tebow was the QB on that team. He also made some pretty spectacular plays in almost every game. He had just enough effectiveness as a QB to keep playing him (as long as the team was doing well).

Obviously he wasn't the answer, but for a brief period of time, he was winning.

[SouthFortySooner]

Manziel always seemed to be having fun playing a game. I liked that about him.

[ashley]

When you are good at something you usually have more fun doing it.