Big 12 1st round - BU

[Soonerjeepman]

well, the tcu game/bu is ugly...bu was cruising then did ...who knows...13 pt lead with 11 left.

I know tcu is horrible, but I tell ya bu is a different animal than when we played them. Should be a good game.

[soonerboomer]

Oklahoma needs to be ready -- mentally and physically -- to play tonight or the Bears will defeat the Sooners. The Bears are on a roll now.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

BOOMER!!!!

[badger]

All y'all better go sink some serious vCash on OU right here. (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?182936-Tonight-OU-vs-Baylor-Big-12-tourney&p=4425085#post4425085)

The line's only 2.5. We could beat the fighting Helsips by that much in our sleep after a weather delayed flight issue with Franchilla at point

[Soonerjeepman]

last time I did that OU lost..I never bet real money on them....so I'm not starting now even with the fake stuff...just a bad omen from me. LOL

[SicEmBaylor]

I really think OU wins. Wish it weren't so, but that's what my gut tells me.

[Soonerjeepman]

lol, my guts says different....at least for now. The ONE good thing is OU has come back from some down times...last year not so much.

[Soonerjeepman]

your post play id better and your guards have stepped up lately

[Soonerjeepman]

good lord...Dave Armstrong HAS screwed up 2 names already for OU...DA

[Soonerjeepman]

damn...looks like bu just WANTS it more...GET ON THE FLOOR...crap

[Soonerjeepman]

SHHIITTTT....that's frickin 2 times...

[8timechamps]

EVERY bounce is going Baylor's way right now. That has to change, right?!

[Soonerjeepman]

sitting at home...by myself watching the game...so this thread is my release...%$^#%$&^$&*

[Soonerjeepman]

getting outrebounded big time...

[8timechamps]

What is wrong with us tonight?

We're getting KILLED underneath

[Soonerjeepman]

bu playing great extended D...no shots for us.

[8timechamps]

I gotta believe we'll settle in and play better.

That's the only downside to getting a bye in the first round. The team you play has a game under their belt.

[Soonerjeepman]

well the good is our subs are hanging with their subs.

[8timechamps]

This is really frustrating!

[Soonerjeepman]

we just seem to have a lack of the intensity...bu doing a great job with the intensity.

[Soonerjeepman]

got to get it under 5 before half. The only good/hope is bu relaxes in the 2nd half..they did last night and tcu got within 6. They only won by 10...if their guards relax we might get some shots.

We are NOT flashing to the high post AT ALL..

[Soonerjeepman]

lol..of course jefferson hits a 3

[Soonerjeepman]

ummm...ok lets NOT DOUBLE TEAM THE POST ANYMORE....

[Soonerjeepman]

thinkin..we're done. signin off. hopefully we can pull a win off in the tourny.

[Temujin]

This is really frustrating!

Just like the TT loss...we're just a step behind in every phase of the game.

[Ruf/Nek7]

What the hell is going on? .ca watch on tv since direct tv doesnt have it so I have to follow on gameplay. It says we missed like 4 layups in the last 3 mins. Is that for real?

[Temujin]

What is it that makes a marketing agency think that a commercial where the characters repeat the same word 45 times in 30 seconds in a fake Italian accent is going to tempt me to buy something?

[Eielson]

Ugh.

I think we'll rebound, but I don't know that it will be enough. I'd surprised if we lost by double digits, though.

[Temujin]

What the hell is going on? .ca watch on tv since direct tv doesnt have it so I have to follow on gameplay. It says we missed like 4 layups in the last 3 mins. Is that for real?

Just low effort and poor scheme. Baylor had a hot first half and have a nice game plan so far.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Just low effort and poor scheme. Baylor had a hot first half and have a nice game plan so far.

But are we really missing all of these layups?

[Temujin]

Just low effort and poor scheme. Baylor had a hot first half and have a nice game plan so far.

But are we really missing all of these layups?

Yeah, but they're challenged shots.

[Ruf/Nek7]

At this point blow have to force the issue. Quit settling for jumpers and attack. Force some fouls.

[Temujin]

Ugh, just when we show some life, a phantom foul. Gotta love B12 refs.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Looks like we will love and die by the three. Surely Kruger realizes that is not thw way to go right now. Surely.

[Temujin]

Looks like we will love and die by the three. Surely Kruger realizes that is not thw way to go right now. Surely.

Yeah but most are good open shots lately. Some good ball movement, just not hitting like we usually do. But we're showing a LOT better effort, so making a little comeback.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Still wish we would attack and force the issue. Get some fouls against them, get into the bonus. Stop the clock, and get points at the charity stripe

[Temujin]

Still wish we would attack and force the issue. Get some fouls against them, get into the bonus. Stop the clock, and get points at the charity stripe

We tried that and the refs refused to comply.

[Temujin]

17 FT attempts to our 3.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Too little, too late. It sucks because I cannot watch the game but our offensive game plan has got to change. Otherwise, early start to the ncaa tourney. We will prolly fall a couple seeds and he into the dreaded 8-9 seed.

[Temujin]

Oh goodie...2 more FTs for Baylor.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Oh goodie...2 more FTs for Baylor.

Thats why baylor is beating us. They are attacking. We just wan to shoot jumpers. They will end up shooting 20 FT to our 5 and it wont be the officials fault

[Soonerjeepman]

yup...all our own fault...no drives. we'll get within 4/5 but they'll win it at the line...already in the bonus.

give bu credit...GREAT intensity, great game plan...their bigs played well. We kept double teaming them and they just crashed the boards.

[Soonerjeepman]

our intensity from the beginning SUCKED. There were 2-3 loose balls on ONE possession early...bu got all 3. Our offensive scheme against the zone was horrible...we just passed around the top...then shot a contested 3. Hell in the 2nd half we had the ball in the post 3-4 times and passed out instead of going up strong INTO the def player to get a foul.

[Soonerjeepman]

another drive then dish for a missed 3. NO ONE crashed the lane for the easy 2...

[Soonerjeepman]

ugh...where we go...going to RIP MY HEART OUT...lol.

[Soonerjeepman]

lol..close but can't finish. Hope the guys get hot during the ncaa again.

Gnite

[Ruf/Nek7]

QUIT SHOOTING THREE'S Came on Kruger you are Bette than this.

[Sooner95]

Well, this sucks....

[Sooner95]

6 seed.. Man, this is more disappointing than the TT loss.

[Ruf/Nek7]

I put this one squarely on Kruger. He should have told those kids to stop jacking 3's late in the second half. Most pathetic stat of the night: 35-7 Free throw differential.

[Temujin]

QUIT SHOOTING THREE'S Came on Kruger you are Bette than this.

Honestly, Kruger coached this sluggish team to come back from an awful first half and 21 points down to get within 3 at the end. Hell, if we just hit 2 of those we're talking about OT or a win. We just couldn't hit anything, had a MASSIVE FT disadvantage, and still almost won.

The only thing that Kruger could've done to save this game would be to suit up himself, IMO.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Honestly, Kruger coached this sluggish team to come back from an awful first half and 21 points down to get within 3 at the end. Hell, if we just hit 2 of those we're talking about OT or a win. We just couldn't hit anything, had a MASSIVE FT disadvantage, and still almost won.

The only thing that Kruger could've done to save this game would be to suit up himself, IMO.

The free throw differential comes from the fact that all we did was shoot threes. Hard to call a foul on jumpers 30 ft from the basket.

[Temujin]

I put this one squarely on Kruger. He should have told those kids to stop jacking 3's late in the second half. Most pathetic stat of the night: 35-7 Free throw differential.

Watching the game I couldn't disagree more. Baylor had several blocked shots that made the inside game difficult. The 3s that we took in the 2nd half were mostly good shot choices, we just couldn't hit them.

If anything I think Kruger's scheme to double team the post backfired in the first half, but he quickly got away from that and we played great defense in the 2nd half. That's a great adjustment. But the damage was done and we just weren't hot enough to pull it off in the end.

At least that's how I see it.

[Temujin]

The free throw differential comes from the fact that all we did was shoot threes. Hard to call a foul on jumpers 30 ft from the basket.

Well, like I said earlier, we did drive at first and weren't getting the calls. We did get some inside looks late, but only after we had hit a few 3s to make them honest.

[Temujin]

I guess my problem is that Kruger wasn't the one playing lazy defense and not moving around on offense in that first half. The 21 point deficit tends to handicap a coach, and he did exactly what we needed. He made the team press and trap the entire 2nd half. It worked too, for the most part.

And like Jeepman said, Baylor was doing everything right, hitting even tough shots. Three of their 3s came from their big men.

It was frustrating to watch, but I don't feel terrible about it. I think its encouraging that we can come back from a 21 point deficit to make it close against a good team. Hell, if we even get slightly hot, we pull off the comeback.

I tend towards the negative usually, too, especially towards the coaches. But I really like Kruger. Like I said, just how I see it.

[Eielson]

I don't like this at all, but it might not hurt us too bad. If Baylor goes on to win the tournament, our two wins against them in the regular season might become "quality" wins.

My biggest disappointment is that this seems to be a trend. We're 0-3 in post-season tournament games over the last two years, and I can't remember off the top of my head, but if we won a tournament game in Kruger's first season, it was a weak one followed immediately by another loss.

[tycat947]

FIRE LON!!!

[birddog]

I think his name is Lee Kroger

[Salt City Sooner]

I don't like this at all, but it might not hurt us too bad. If Baylor goes on to win the tournament, our two wins against them in the regular season might become "quality" wins.

My biggest disappointment is that this seems to be a trend. We're 0-3 in post-season tournament games over the last two years, and I can't remember off the top of my head, but if we won a tournament game in Kruger's first season, it was a weak one followed immediately by another loss.
It's been a trend for a while now. Since they pulled off the 3 B12 tourney titles in a row in the '01 through '03 seasons, OU is now 5-11 in it, & hasn't won more than one game in it in any given year.

[8timechamps]

Honestly, Kruger coached this sluggish team to come back from an awful first half and 21 points down to get within 3 at the end. Hell, if we just hit 2 of those we're talking about OT or a win. We just couldn't hit anything, had a MASSIVE FT disadvantage, and still almost won.

The only thing that Kruger could've done to save this game would be to suit up himself, IMO.

Yeah, I don't think coaching had much to do with this loss.

Baylor's game plan was pretty easy to figure out: Own the paint.

Defensively, we just got beat on the boards. We played better defense in the last 6 or 7 minutes of the game, but it was too late. Offensively, Baylor dared us to beat them with the three. That's a risky gamble, as this OU team can shoot the three, but tonight it paid off for the Bears...we just weren't consistent enough from three.

I can't blame Kruger for the loss, it's on the players.

I will add that Baylor is one of the hottest teams in the country right now (which is a little surprising, as I didn't think they looked great in the last part of their first round game against TCU). I wouldn't be surprised if they get to the CCG. Someone said this earlier, and I now agree, Baylor is playing like the team we thought they'd be in conference play.

I hope we learn from this loss, because if we face any team with size in the tourney, they're going to use the same approach...own the pain and make OU beat 'em with outside shooting.

[Temujin]

Seriously? You want to talk about trends? Then look at the entire picture, not just one poorly chosen statistic. Thanks to some sanctions left over from the Capel era, most of the guys we've had have been cobbled together through late JUCO recruiting pushes and transfers. This year? We have 2 players on the entire team that truly classify as "inside" players, and we can only start one of them at a time. In the offseason we lost 4/5 of our starting roster. We've got a freshmen and 3 sophomores starting, and have only 3 upperclassmen on the entire roster. Last year, guys like Cam Clark, Tyler Neal, and Buddy Hield weren't hitting more than 30% from beyond the arc. Our best returning scorer was Hield, at 7.8 points per game.

All that and Kruger STILL got us to a 23-9 record, a top 20 ranking, and we haven't been blown out a single game this year - only ONE double-digit loss. We've given teams like Michigan State and KU everything they could handle and pulled off wins against teams that were MUCH better than us on paper. We swept our two biggest rivals. We've improved every single year steadily, despite the fact that this was supposed to be a rebuilding year. We're poised to take a 4-6 seed in the big dance. And Lon Kruger was voted Big 12 coach of the year by the AP. And we finished 2nd in the strongest conference in the country.

So what?...we FINALLY lost our 3rd matchup against a team that's got a HUGE size and talent advantage over us. They're flush with guys that lined everyone's top 100 HS players. And it took everything they had to finally beat us by 5 points...after holding a 21-point lead. Call me crazy, but this loss doesn't bother me one bit. Of course it was frustrating, and of course I hated watching it. But the simple fact is that Baylor came out with more intensity than we did, and they got hot and stayed hot all game long. This game felt exactly like the TT loss, and after that game we went on a nice little run to close the season and finish 2nd in the Big 12. I would've rather seen us win, of course, but there's no way this team goes into the big dance lazy and unprepared after this game.

And I think Kruger is a friggin' genius. Sure, his initial defensive game plan didn't work, but he kicked this team in the butt and got a bunch of guys having a really bad shooting day to fight back and come within 3 points of tying the game.

On top of all that, we've got some of the best incoming talent we've had in a long time, and we didn't have to rely on any JUCO players or transfers either. This team is CLEARLY trending up. I really like where this team is headed under Kruger. I could very well be wrong about him, but I'm not going to get down on him based on one lame statistic. Especially when nearly all the evidence we have so far points towards significant and steady improvement.

[8timechamps]

I don't like this at all, but it might not hurt us too bad. If Baylor goes on to win the tournament, our two wins against them in the regular season might become "quality" wins.

My biggest disappointment is that this seems to be a trend. We're 0-3 in post-season tournament games over the last two years, and I can't remember off the top of my head, but if we won a tournament game in Kruger's first season, it was a weak one followed immediately by another loss.

I agree with this.

The committee should look at the entire picture (the complete season, where we finished and the fact that it's really hard to beat a good team three times in a row). If Baylor goes on to win the conference tournament, that will be even better for our resume.

I think we're a 5 seed at worst.

I'm going to wait and see how we fare in the tournament before I consider this a trend. It's certainly not what I was expecting, but if we can win one or two in the tournament, then I'll still consider this a very good year.

Don't forget how young this team is, and we're bringing back most of it next year. If we can win a couple in the tournament (heck, even one), then I'll consider it progress:

2013: Made the tournament, but lost in round 1
2014: Made the tournament, and won a game or two (hoping)
2015: ????

That's a trend I'd be happy with!

[Eielson]

I'm not going to spend too much time on this tonight, but I'm not saying Kruger sucks. We did better than I thought we would this year, and like I've said more than once on here, this isn't "our year." Next year should be better, and if nothing bad happens, we should be set up for a deep run in the NCAA tournament in 2 years.

We've been plain bad in postseason for several years now, though. It isn't some obscure statistic. This team hasn't stepped up in the postseason under Kruger, and this Big XII tournament slump has stretched three coaches now, and includes Blake's years. Shoot, this is off the top of my head, but outside of Blake's two years, I can't remember a good postseason since Hollis was playing.

[birddog]

We knew going into the season we would have a tough time against bigger teams inside and Baylor has the most size in the league, along with texass and ku. But we have big, strong guards to offset that disadvantage inside. Its imperative that our guards drive the paint as much as possible, either to finish, draw a foul or kick out to the perimeter, which will put pressure on the bigs and hopefully get em into foul trouble.

We've seen perimeter teams drop like flies in the tourney but if our guards can get penetration inside it'll give us a much better chance of winning when our 3s aren't falling. Gonna be fun, as always. Looks to be more wide open than any year I can remember

[Temujin]

I'm not going to spend too much time on this tonight, but I'm not saying Kruger sucks. We did better than I thought we would this year, and like I've said more than once on here, this isn't "our year." Next year should be better, and if nothing bad happens, we should be set up for a deep run in the NCAA tournament in 2 years.

We've been plain bad in postseason for several years now, though. It isn't some obscure statistic. This team hasn't stepped up in the postseason under Kruger, and this Big XII tournament slump has stretched three coaches now, and includes Blake's years. Shoot, this is off the top of my head, but outside of Blake's two years, I can't remember a good postseason since Hollis was playing.

Eh, I imagine it's difficult to put together dance-worthy teams when you're reeling from sanctions caused by the previous 2 coaches. This'll be only our 2nd dance under Kruger, so calling his postseason results a "trend" is a little premature.

Keep in mind that we're not KU, or North Carolina, or UCLA...recruiting is different for us. Our basketball program isn't our football program. Since the 80s we've always been a middle-tier program, usually sitting around the lower top 25, and occasionally rising into the top 10 and making the odd Elite Eight run. Kruger has us headed back in the right direction, and I'm just happy that we're back on an upward trend. If he keeps us heading this direction, I think we could see a Final Four in the next few years. I think we're a borderline Sweet 16 team this year, but we'll see.

[Soonerjeepman]

Watching the game I couldn't disagree more. Baylor had several blocked shots that made the inside game difficult. The 3s that we took in the 2nd half were mostly good shot choices, we just couldn't hit them.

If anything I think Kruger's scheme to double team the post backfired in the first half, but he quickly got away from that and we played great defense in the 2nd half. That's a great adjustment. But the damage was done and we just weren't hot enough to pull it off in the end.

At least that's how I see it.
I agree with most of what you sad, BUT I do disagree about driving to the bucket, yes, they had blocked a couple...but we were flat footed and it was our guards vs their 7fter. If CC or Spang and gone hard to the hole, hell throw up a little hook after getting fouled they would been shooting FT much sooner and more. I was VERY frustrated that all we did was pass the ball around...very little high post flashes. Setting a screen for a drive against a zone isn't smart (IMHO). Just let the guard drive. Even when we did we'd dish it off for a missed 3.

I have no problem with the foul shot attempts...we did NOT drive..

Tough game, bu is playing well. I wouldn't call it an upset at all. Hopefully we'll get a guard orientated team as well and our guards will be on.

[Soonerjeepman]

Temujin,

I know we have 3 guys coming in..6'11, 6'9 6'7..right? but all thin. I know one time recently I heard in an interview LK likes 4 guys that can drive and score and play good perimeter defense and then a tall "eraser" for the middle for any mistakes. I'm assuming that is what he is going for by the recruits. Are these guys any "good"...by that being recruited by decent programs.

I agree, OU is a lower 25 type school. We are NOT on the top list of top bball players like in football...and that's ok. It takes 5 good guys...they can beat 1 great guy.

[Temujin]

I agree with most of what you sad, BUT I do disagree about driving to the bucket, yes, they had blocked a couple...but we were flat footed and it was our guards vs their 7fter. If CC or Spang and gone hard to the hole, hell throw up a little hook after getting fouled they would been shooting FT much sooner and more. I was VERY frustrated that all we did was pass the ball around...very little high post flashes. Setting a screen for a drive against a zone isn't smart (IMHO). Just let the guard drive. Even when we did we'd dish it off for a missed 3.

I have no problem with the foul shot attempts...we did NOT drive..

Tough game, bu is playing well. I wouldn't call it an upset at all. Hopefully we'll get a guard orientated team as well and our guards will be on.

Yeah, I suppose we might have been able to be a "little" more aggressive in the 2nd half, but I don't think that was why we lost. About half-way through our comeback there was a point where we had sufficiently opened up the lane enough to get some drives close to the basket. For instance, I counted 3 times that Woodard drove into the lane and had a wide open look just a couple of feet from the basket...and he was so surprised that no one was in his face, he: 1) barely got a pass to Ryan Spangler just before traveling, 2) completely airballed a 5-foot jumper, and 3) barely got a pass out to an open man in the corner. So it's not like we weren't aggressive at all, we just didn't make the best of those opportunities.

The other thing - I really didn't have a problem with the TYPE of 3-point shots we were taking. We weren't jacking up double-covered mid-court shots or anything. Almost all of them were good looks that came off the drive and kick and when we had good ball movement. Unfortunately we just weren't hitting them. Hield was 3 for 10 even though most of his opportunities were open. I'd be willing to guess that the reason we were taking 3s and the reason we were missing them was because of all the energy we were expending on the press/trap to come back from that deficit.

Besides that, the last thing I want is for us to hesitate when we have open looks. The confidence that this team has in their ability to hit open shots is a big reason why we are where we are.

[Temujin]

Temujin,

I know we have 3 guys coming in..6'11, 6'9 6'7..right? but all thin. I know one time recently I heard in an interview LK likes 4 guys that can drive and score and play good perimeter defense and then a tall "eraser" for the middle for any mistakes. I'm assuming that is what he is going for by the recruits. Are these guys any "good"...by that being recruited by decent programs.

I agree, OU is a lower 25 type school. We are NOT on the top list of top bball players like in football...and that's ok. It takes 5 good guys...they can beat 1 great guy.

Well, I'm not a recruiting guy. I've watched the vids of the guys coming in, and from what I can tell, Buford is going to be a nice replacement for Clark. Lattin looks a little lean and I'm not sure he's a powerful inside guy...but I think he's big enough to provide some front-line depth. And I have no idea about McNeace. At the very least, they might open up opportunities to get both Bennett and Spangler in the lineup at the same time, which gives us a MUCH better inside presence than we have now.

You know, the great thing about being a program that's sitting in the 20-30 ranked range these days is that we can get guys that are good, but are much more likely to stay 3-4 years. So if Kruger can continue to get that 2nd and 3rd-tier recruit and do great things with them like he's done with guys like Hield and Neal, I think it puts us in a position to be really good for a long time. Again, it's too early to really judge on Kruger (hell at this time in his OU coaching career we were loving Capel), but I do like where we're going.

[Soonerjeepman]

I think we should have been more aggressive driving in the first half. We settled for a lot of outside shots. Yes, JW on that little floater..missed big time. I just don't like setting a lot of screens on a zone. Give credit to bu, they really played it well, but I have to think that some of that was on our guards not driving and our lack of intensity.

Yes, I really didn't have issue with the 3's we took, just that the guards didn't penetrate enough.

I'd rather have "good" 3-4 year guys. In 2 years we should be really good. Even next year we should be better. All of our guards can knock down the 3, we just need Spang to be open to shooting the 7-9 ft jumper. He was hesitant tonight and basically gets his points with put-backs and post moves.

It'll be interesting if Bennett can make a huge improvement over the summer. I think he did some decent things this year..I think part of that is he just didn't play much early...he'll never be a "stud" unless he really makes a jump over summer....he just doesn't look fluid.

It'll be an interesting year...hopefully OU can win a couple in the ncaa's this yr to get OU spring-boarded.

[badger]

I like that unlike the other OU basketball team, losing our first game in this Big 12 tournament doesn't make us nervous during the NCAA selection show :(

Join me in the meltdown thread for therapy later today. Misery loves company and we were definitely not the only Big 12 team to lose yesterday that's miserable

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'm not too concerned about last night. The energy is the first half was for ****. Buddy and Cousins both had off shooting nights. I expect the first one to be corrected next week and hopefully the second one will as well.

Where was Spangler in the first half? I thought I heard the announcers either really late in the first half or early in the second that he got his first rebound. We need him inside fighting for rebounds and causing havoc.

[Soonerjeepman]

yeah he only had 2 -3 rebounds either middle or late 2nd half....

[badger]

Where was Spangler in the first half? I thought I heard the announcers either really late in the first half or early in the second that he got his first rebound. We need him inside fighting for rebounds and causing havoc.

They were bullying us with their size (both bulk and tallness) in the first half, then Spangler ran around like a madman on some plays in the second half, so he must have gotten a talking to by coaches or teammates about getting killed on rebounds.

It really made a difference, since the first half hole we dug was too deep to get out

[Temujin]

They were bullying us with their size (both bulk and tallness) in the first half, then Spangler ran around like a madman on some plays in the second half, so he must have gotten a talking to by coaches or teammates about getting killed on rebounds.

It really made a difference, since the first half hole we dug was too deep to get out

Yeah that tall kid with the goggles was climbing all over Spangler most of the game. I'm sure that a lot of those battles should've ended up in fouls, but the refs were letting it go, and that's just going to be a disadvantage for a team like ours.

The one thing that really annoys me this whole year is that the OTB foul seems to have been removed from the game as a foul. All year long I've watched as one guy has good box out positioning only to watch another guy just piggyback him to get the rebound. I don't recall a single OTB call all year long. It just makes for a lot of chaos in the paint and is a huge advantage for the taller teams. It's not just our games, either. Every Big 12 game has been officiated that way.