Soonerjeepman or any other educators/parents please weigh in

[FirstandGoal]

Okay, so my daughter is a Junior at Edmond Memorial and she's going to be selecting her classes for Senior year.

Her aptitudes are geared toward math and sciences and she is probably leaning toward a potential career in the health care field.
Her counselor is recommending that she take AP Physics B rather than AP Anatomy under the advice that colleges would rather accept a student with the physics class under their belt than the anatomy.

I kinda think this is not the greatest advice and it seems to be going against what my thought process is.

She's a bright girl and has successfully passed AP Chemistry and AP Psych. She is also very involved in both church and school activities and will be holding down a part-time job so time constraints factor in heavily into this decision. There's no way I want her signing up for both classes.
Right now we're going back and forth on what to do here so any input from anybody here would be greatly appreciated.

[8timechamps]

Wow, that's tough. I'd go with the Left Twix.


You're welcome.

[FirstandGoal]

Wow, that's tough. I'd go with the Left Twix.


You're welcome.


:tongue:

Heh, never had issues like this with my son.

[rock on sooner]

Okay, so my daughter is a Junior at Edmond Memorial and she's going to be selecting her classes for Senior year.

Her aptitudes are geared toward math and sciences and she is probably leaning toward a potential career in the health care field.
Her counselor is recommending that she take AP Physics B rather than AP Anatomy under the advice that colleges would rather accept a student with the physics class under their belt than the anatomy.

I kinda think this is not the greatest advice and it seems to be going against what my thought process is.

She's a bright girl and has successfully passed AP Chemistry and AP Psych. She is also very involved in both church and school activities and will be holding down a part-time job so time constraints factor in heavily into this decision. There's no way I want her signing up for both classes.
Right now we're going back and forth on what to do here so any input from anybody here would be greatly appreciated.

I taught high school speech/drama fresh out of college and have raised
two kids...one each...not sure if that qualifies...but here goes...first and
foremost, what does your daughter want to do? (My daughter, after a
LOT of college (Spanish degree, theatre minor) and then (RN, BSN working
in the critical care dept of the hospital) and now does nursing tutoring and
thinking about going for her Master's in Nursing...point here is she figured
out what she wanted to do and is doing it. As bright as your daughter is,
ultimately she has to live it, so I'd listen to what she wants and support the
hell out of her when she decides. School counselors, for the most part, are
well intended but not necessarily the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

16/17 year olds don't always know what they want for the future, but once
in a while, they do. Especially with strong opinions, so listen closely. The
health care field is ripe for the near future and, according to my daughter,
most rewarding.

Bottom line, go with HER/YOUR gut...it is early enough that you'll see if you're
off base and can correct, but anyone who wants health care ain't all bad...

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Both. Colleges like challenging senior coursework, but the grades aren't as important because admission decisions will already be made. Unless she makes a D in one, or Cs in both, she's ok.

[GDC]

AP Physics over AP Anatomy for sure, if she has to choose and cannot take both.

[ouwasp]

I teach honors physics and chemistry and use to teach anatomy. A lot of kids love biology and anatomy more in high school, unless they are geared towards engineering. AP Physics is tough and in premed she would probably have to have just general physics, and if she goes toward nursing or lab work would probably not even need this. College Anatomy was an eye opener to me with so much to memorize. If that is what she likes let her do it. I have learned to love physics and there may be a more general instead of AP class she could take of it. (This is WASPS wife)

[olevetonahill]

I majored in Drankin, Gamblin and Whoring. Ya prolly dont want my advice.

[SicEmBaylor]

Okay, so my daughter is a Junior at Edmond Memorial and she's going to be selecting her classes for Senior year.

Her aptitudes are geared toward math and sciences and she is probably leaning toward a potential career in the health care field.
Her counselor is recommending that she take AP Physics B rather than AP Anatomy under the advice that colleges would rather accept a student with the physics class under their belt than the anatomy.

I kinda think this is not the greatest advice and it seems to be going against what my thought process is.

She's a bright girl and has successfully passed AP Chemistry and AP Psych. She is also very involved in both church and school activities and will be holding down a part-time job so time constraints factor in heavily into this decision. There's no way I want her signing up for both classes.
Right now we're going back and forth on what to do here so any input from anybody here would be greatly appreciated.

What school is she trying to get into that you all are worried about the difference in AP Physics/Anatomy to an admissions officer?

Also, your gut is probably correct. You have to keep in mind that most HS academic counselors are absolute complete ****ing morons. In fact, why are you and your daughter even bothering with them at all?

[Ton Loc]

Also, your gut is probably correct. You have to keep in mind that most HS academic counselors are absolute complete ****ing morons. In fact, why are you and your daughter even bothering with them at all?

Exactly this

Also - College anatomy is a bitch.

[FirstandGoal]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Sicem, my daughter is like me when it comes to her education. She's anal-retentive and completely OCD about her grades. I was the same way and although it served me well, I sometimes wish I had been able to unwind a bit and have enjoyed that period of my life more. I was so completely goal-oriented that I was a licensed pharmacist by the age of 22. I managed to carry an average of about 16 hours per semester intense course work and I worked 30-35 hours a week. But enough about me, I digress..

The fact is my daughter has many of my characteristics when it comes to her education and she's in quite a state over this decision. Oh and the reason that she's listening to the counselors is because they're the counselors. While I admire her ability for independent thinking in many aspects of life, she is still only 16 and still hasn't realized that the great majority of adults are dumbasses. Especially the few teachers that she likes and who have given her this advice. I was discussing this very issue with my BF last night and he is of the opinion that for very general purposes, physics would be the better (although not by a large margin) of the two choices.

Mrs. Wasp, thanks for your input. This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

SJS, LOL at your grades comment. My daughter is so very much like I was. She just made her first B ever in her life (last semester's AP chemisty) and it really bummed her out for a few weeks. The thought of making another one again before she graduates is almost unbearable for her. Thus why we are stressing this decision.

Here is an example of how my daughter's brain works:
She had met all of her core requirements she needs to graduate at the end of her Junior year so now she's just using this last year to prep herself in the best way possible for college and in her mind that means she needs to make every class and every semester count without jeopardizing her GPA. She feels the need for more AP classes to help offset that lone B that she is still taking as a personal failure. One class that she's thinking about taking is Latin II (she's already taken 2 semesters of Spanish and Latin I) just so she can have a third language completion on her transcript. She's thinking of this even though she's been told that Latin II is a bitch of a hard class at her school. Her other option? Take a semester as an office aide, but in her mind taking something that is seen as a "blow off" course is antithesis to her goals.

[SoonerBBall]

I think it is important to know which colleges she wants to get into. For something like OU, she'll be fine taking a blow off. For a more prestigious academic university, she'd probably need more than that.

Also, AP Physics B is only mechanics and not electricity and magnetism. It won't be terribly rough unless she doesn't have a calculus background. If she hasn't taken calc classes, she needs to stay away from AP Physics.

[rock on sooner]

I majored in Drankin, Gamblin and Whoring. Ya prolly dont want my advice.

Biggest question here is, what kinda grades you git?

[FirstandGoal]

Right now all I'm going to be able to afford for her first year is UCO. The reason is she can still stay at home and all I will have to pay is her books and tuition. If she goes somewhere like OU, she'll be forced to stay in a dorm and I just can't afford it. We're going to try to apply for scholarships, but I'm not too optimistic.

[SoonerBBall]

Right now all I'm going to be able to afford for her first year is UCO. The reason is she can still stay at home and all I will have to pay is her books and tuition. If she goes somewhere like OU, she'll be forced to stay in a dorm and I just can't afford it. We're going to try to apply for scholarships, but I'm not too optimistic.

She definitely does not need AP Physics to get into UCO.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Okay, so my daughter is a Junior at Edmond Memorial and she's going to be selecting her classes for Senior year.

Her aptitudes are geared toward math and sciences and she is probably leaning toward a potential career in the health care field.
Her counselor is recommending that she take AP Physics B rather than AP Anatomy under the advice that colleges would rather accept a student with the physics class under their belt than the anatomy.

I kinda think this is not the greatest advice and it seems to be going against what my thought process is.

She's a bright girl and has successfully passed AP Chemistry and AP Psych. She is also very involved in both church and school activities and will be holding down a part-time job so time constraints factor in heavily into this decision. There's no way I want her signing up for both classes.
Right now we're going back and forth on what to do here so any input from anybody here would be greatly appreciated.

I take it running start isn't an option here?

[Soonerjeepman]

LOL...sorry bud I'm ele school...I got 5th graders that don't know their multiplication facts~

also, trying to get my son to pull his head out of his a$$ for pre-calc...getting a baseball scholarship.

Do you know anyone at OU? The professors, as long as you personally know them, might be able to better answer this...sorry man. GREAT problem to have!

[rock on sooner]

Biggest question here is, what kinda grades you git?

Aw, Vet, yew musta flunked one er more, cause yew aint fessed
us to tha grades!:redface:

[Soonerjeepman]

LOL...sorry bud I'm ele school...I got 5th graders that don't know their multiplication facts~

also, trying to get my son to pull his head out of his a$$ for pre-calc...getting a baseball scholarship.

Do you know anyone at OU? The professors, as long as you personally know them, might be able to better answer this...sorry man. GREAT problem to have!

I feel like a dumba$$....Ma'am. sorry! (ya said BF, now I remember another thread...lol).

[olevetonahill]

Biggest question here is, what kinda grades you git?


Aw, Vet, yew musta flunked one er more, cause yew aint fessed
us to tha grades!:redface:

Just saw this, Hell Its been a Lifes work. Wont get the final Grade till They plant me.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Just saw this, Hell Its been a Lifes work. Wont get the final Grade till They plant me.

Well, you can beg God for an Incomplete and maybe hang out a little longer.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

FirstandGoal,

Yeah, my comment about taking both and not worrying about the grades was under the assumption she was thinking of a highly selective school like Duke, UCLA, or one of the ivy leagues. They look at the challenging coursework and grades up through the junior year, but judge the senior year primarily by the courses. They make admissions decisions early. So senior grades don't matter as much unless they are C's, D's, and F's - and then they might withdraw the offer.

One can be admitted to OU or UCO without AP courses. Standard college-prep courses with a decent GPA is sufficient.

However, since she is a very good student, I would encourage her to apply to OU and see what kind of financial aid package she can get. If you are unable to afford room and board, she may be able to qualify for means tested aid in addition to merit-based aid for being a good student.

Personally, I would pimp my wife and sell grandma to the glue factory to send my daughter to OU.

[rock on sooner]

Just saw this, Hell Its been a Lifes work. Wont get the final Grade till They plant me.

Welp, most courses come in semesters..jus guessin here, but yer
prolly jus startin' second semester so there's sum in between grades,
that way yew know what needs speshul tention, yew know, tutorin n
such....:devilish:

[olevetonahill]

Welp, most courses come in semesters..jus guessin here, but yer
prolly jus startin' second semester so there's sum in between grades,
that way yew know what needs speshul tention, yew know, tutorin n
such....:devilish:

Hell I been the Main instructor for years

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Vet, when Switzer turned 65, he said he was beginning the 4th quarter of his life.

So, you're still late 3rd quarter. And don't waste your time outs.

[olevetonahill]

Vet, when Switzer turned 65, he said he was beginning the 4th quarter of his life.

So, you're still late 3rd quarter. And don't waste your time outs.

Cool, Since yer Pimpin out Maria Ill be out there in 2 months how much for a full weekend with her?

[Turd_Ferguson]

I majored in Drankin, Gamblin and Whoring. Ya prolly dont want my advice.

I always knowed you was a damn whore...

[olevetonahill]

I always knowed you was a damn whore...

Hos get paid, Im more of a ****in SLUT.

[rock on sooner]

Hos get paid, Im more of a ****in SLUT.

Yew bragging er complainin?

[olevetonahill]

Yew bragging er complainin?

It IS what it IS, LOL

[rock on sooner]

It IS what it IS, LOL

Heh....

[achiro]

Talk to the teachers, ask how much outside work is involved. Tell them what you told us, she really doesn't even need the class and the reasons she wants to take it. May not be the same teachers next year but at least you'll get a feel for it. If she is looking at a health care profession I would go anatomy all the way. If engineering or something along those lines the physics would be better. If she is still up in the air about what she wants to do, look at what she has had in the past and see if there is one or the other that would give her more experience in another direction to see if she likes it better than what she has done.

[FirstandGoal]

Thanks for the input guys. Ultimately she's decided to go with the Anatomy and Bio. Heh, she didn't even have Bio on her radar until I encouraged her to go and talk to a couple of the teachers whose judgement she really trusts. Of course the guy teaching the AP Biology is one of the coaches of the soccer team she's been manager of for the last 3 years. Oh yeah, and she is also going to take the second Latin course so I think its safe to say that if she truly does decide to pursue a medical career she's going to have a great head start.

Oh and my BF will be rather disappointed (but not surprised) by the fact that she isn't going to take any more history/government classes. LOL

[Soonerjeepman]

you should be a proud mama, I'm just trying to not kill the boy..a Sr..who wants to play and will prob juco baseball...sumbitch is driving me crazy with his "grades".

[FirstandGoal]

you should be a proud mama, I'm just trying to not kill the boy..a Sr..who wants to play and will prob juco baseball...sumbitch is driving me crazy with his "grades".


LOL, remind me to tell you someday about my 20 year old son.

[olevetonahill]

Sorry I wernt much help with yer daughter, But Now Yer Son I can help LOL

[Sooners78]

Don't forget CLEP tests. They're a great value compared to paying tuition. She could always study on her own and CLEP the physics.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

So I just want to expand on the running start option here (I have no idea if Oklahoma still has an equivalent or not).

1. The problem with both AP and CLEP (or whatever they are called now) is that they are neutral in regard to your college career. You get credit for the hours, but you don't get credit for having taken those classes with regard to your degree and more importantly you don't get the grades that you would have gotten for taking them. This means that you have this Pass on a ton of hours that doesn't do much but fill general hours. This presents a huge problem when you need X hours of math for your degree as you have to take higher level classes since you skipped all of the lower ones*.

*Note if you are a person who likes to learn for the challenge, then this isn't as big of a deal for you. If you are like the rest of us who were poor and needed a job, it sucks.

2. Running start on the other hand, allows you to take a college class and simultaneously count it towards both college and high school credits. This allows you to both build up credits for your major as well as build up a GPA on the easier classes on the state's dime. My oldest daughter graduated high school with both a high school diploma and an associates degree while only having to pay for books. Generally speaking in Washington, that was roughly 30k worth of savings from a 4 year school. It also put her a long way ahead of the graduation curve since she has 5 years to complete 2 years instead of 4. As such, she can work and go part time and not incur much in the way of debt for school.

3. You do have to complete the required high school classes for graduation (in most cases this is one semester of government). So lining up courses is your major problem.

[yermom]

i was going to touch on that... if you are going to have to take anatomy as part of a major, pre-med, for example, they will probably want you to take it at their school anyway even if you already have credit through CLEP, AP or transfer from a juco.

juco classes aren't the same as big boy college.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i was going to touch on that... if you are going to have to take anatomy as part of a major, pre-med, for example, they will probably want you to take it at their school anyway even if you already have credit through CLEP, AP or transfer from a juco.

juco classes aren't the same as big boy college.

Unless this has changed recently, it is illegal for a school (in Oklahoma) to mandate that you take specific classes at their school. The only thing they can do is mandate that you take X number of hours from their school including X number in the major. When I was there, it was 15 hours in your major and 30 total hours. I exploited the crap out of this my senior year for scheduling purposes since I wanted the crap done and didn't want to drive to Norman for all of them.

I always advise people to be smart about your classes. Take as many of the lower level classes as you can from a juco because it is way cheaper and way easier than doing it from the 4 year school. You can get as much as 3/4 of your classes done at a juco and still get the degree from the major school as long as they are the RIGHT hours.

edit: It looks like they caught on to me. Although you can twist that last sentence into a pretzel.

4. Candidates for the B.B.A. degree must complete their last 30 hours as resident students in
Price College. However, if a candidate has completed the last 51 hours as a resident
student at the University of Oklahoma, 9 of the last 60 hours may be taken at another
university or by correspondence from OU.
5. Pass/No Pass WILL NOT be accepted for any Business or General Education courses or any
specifically required courses.
6. One up per-division course in each of the following areas is required: FIN, L S, MGT, and MKT.
7. Sixty hours, excluding physical education activity courses, must be taken at a baccalaureate degree-granting institution.

[yermom]

still, for gen eds, sure, go the CLEP, AP, juco route, but major classes might not be the best idea

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

still, for gen eds, sure, go the CLEP, AP, juco route, but major classes might not be the best idea

I'm just curious why you say that. In general terms, I haven't used one thing from my college classes outside of some Arduino C++ programs. I understand in specific instances where you are going to go into some type of academic career, but for the general workforce it is more about having the degree, not its contents.

[Eielson]

It appears I'm probably a little late to this party, but as a science major, I think I could offer some useful information. It doesn't matter at all as far as getting into college is concerned, so don't let that influence your decision. I'd strongly encourage taking physics, though. It probably doesn't seem "medical" to you right now, but it helps lay the foundation for a lot of science classes. Having knowledge of physics (ex: how electrons move) is very useful in chemistry classes, and even helps in biology classes. The prerequisites for med school are based around General Chemistry I and II, Organic Chemistry I and II, and General Physics I and II. Anatomy isn't a prereq, and even if she's not thinking med school, most medical-type graduate schools have similar requirements. Physics is also very important for tests like the MCAT, OAT, etc.

I'm limited on time, so I can't go into great depths, but this situation seems eerily similar to my situation going into my senior year of high school. I didn't want to take physics, because I didn't feel it was as medical sounding as anatomy. First off, physics does have medical relevance, and that's supported by every kind of medical school, optometry school, dental school, nursing school, etc. requiring it as a prerequisite. Secondly, if she wants to go into a medical field, she's going to have to embrace being a science major. That's going to include doing all kinds of weird stuff with chemicals and environments that won't have much direct medical relevance. Everybody has to do it, though. It's a tough major, and you can't survive if you constantly have thoughts like "this has nothing to do with being a doctor" in the back of your head. I'm not personally calling her out, I'm just saying this as a general statement that most science majors interested in healthcare have to deal with.

In the end, it doesn't matter, though. If you can read, write, and do basic math, you'll go as far as your work ethic takes you in college. You can learn science in college. You'll just have to work extra hard if you didn't get a strong foundation in high school.

[BajaOklahoma]

Physics is required for all of our high school graduates who are on the college track.

But the main reason that I would go with high school physics over anatomy - my daughter took anatomy at OU (limited to pre-nursing and pre-PT students only). She set the curve for the class and was ask to be a teaching assistant for the anatomy lab. She did it for 2 semesters, which is the max allowed. The anatomy prof wrote a letter of recommendation for my daughter, which contributed to early acceptance to her major. And the extra time spent in the anatomy lab directly impacted her grades and knowledge for PT school.

[Eielson]

still, for gen eds, sure, go the CLEP, AP, juco route, but major classes might not be the best idea

A lot of medical-related schools don't accept CLEP/AP tests unless a class beyond that was taken (example: took AP test for physics I, and then took physics II in college). Some classes at community colleges are even better than what the university offers, though. At a community college, you get taught by people with PhD's, and you can get 1 on 1 help very easily. At universities, you often have to deal with TA's and professors that are only at the school to do research. You can run into issues if you were to take General Chemistry I and General Chemistry II (or physics, OChem, etc.) at different schools, though. What you're expected to know differs at each school, and that goes both ways. The important thing is that if you got A's in your physics classes, that should be reflected in your MCAT, OAT, etc. It could raise red flags, otherwise.

Community colleges vary in quality, though. OCCC is on par or better than OU in a lot of ways as far as learning science goes. Can't say the same about other community colleges, though.

[yermom]

I'm just curious why you say that. In general terms, I haven't used one thing from my college classes outside of some Arduino C++ programs. I understand in specific instances where you are going to go into some type of academic career, but for the general workforce it is more about having the degree, not its contents.

i'm talking about major courses that build on the previous knowledge. AP and juco stuff likely don't have the same rigor, at least in hard science and math.

it may not matter when you are done, but it could set you back when you are trying to catch up

[yermom]

A lot of medical-related schools don't accept CLEP/AP tests unless a class beyond that was taken (example: took AP test for physics I, and then took physics II in college). Some classes at community colleges are even better than what the university offers, though. At a community college, you get taught by people with PhD's, and you can get 1 on 1 help very easily. At universities, you often have to deal with TA's and professors that are only at the school to do research. You can run into issues if you were to take General Chemistry I and General Chemistry II (or physics, OChem, etc.) at different schools, though. What you're expected to know differs at each school, and that goes both ways. The important thing is that if you got A's in your physics classes, that should be reflected in your MCAT, OAT, etc. It could raise red flags, otherwise.

Community colleges vary in quality, though. OCCC is on par or better than OU in a lot of ways as far as learning science goes. Can't say the same about other community colleges, though.

i went to OU and TCC. i didn't really know the credentials of my instructors at TCC, but i don't think any of them had PhDs. i'm not that sure though.

i took physics and human anatomy and physiology in high school, neither were offered as AP classes at my school though, i would have probably taken them both given the chance. i took AP Calculus, English and Computer Science to varying success :D

if she has completed the credits to graduate already can she just take college courses while still in school somewhere?

[Eielson]

if she has completed the credits to graduate already can she just take college courses while still in school somewhere?

This is a must for most people if they want to graduate on time and need to work in the summers.

[FirstandGoal]

i went to OU and TCC. i didn't really know the credentials of my instructors at TCC, but i don't think any of them had PhDs. i'm not that sure though.

i took physics and human anatomy and physiology in high school, neither were offered as AP classes at my school though, i would have probably taken them both given the chance. i took AP Calculus, English and Computer Science to varying success :D

if she has completed the credits to graduate already can she just take college courses while still in school somewhere?


This is a must for most people if they want to graduate on time and need to work in the summers.

Much to my chagrin, she has absolutely zero interest in going this route as she doesn't want to "tarnish" her senior year experience by spending half her day at UCO. She's known upperclassmen who have done this and she says that they were all very "meh" about their senior year of high school and for some reason this has her up in arms about it.
One thing I didn't mention in my previous posts is that she's an extremely young HS junior-- her bday is in mid-July and she won't even turn 18 until after she graduates high school. The reason I bring this up is because I think that her age is contributing to some of this insecurity she seems to have about leaving high school "too soon."

[Eielson]

I doubt there is any convincing her otherwise at this point, but does she know that college classes don't meet every day, and that some of them are pretty easy? I took some gen eds that were MUCH easier than my AP classes, and it added to my senior year experience. I didn't even have to come back to school after lunch on Tuesdays/Thursdays.

[Dallasbabe]

many learned from me in skool. hands on mostly