2015 football commit Safety JAMILE JOHNSON

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=8&c=1&nid=7294259

[KantoSooner]

Is he fast? he's got decent size if his speed is good.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

like a gazelle covered in melted butter

[KantoSooner]

Maybe 4.3 speed?

But is that SEC speed?

[KantoSooner]

And a gazelle covered in melted butter, slow cooked over fruit wood at about 150 degrees for a few hours sounds pretty good right now.
Yup, it's almost lunchtime.

[picasso]

Great name.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Rivals:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/recruit-search-results?year=2015&sport_id=1&sport=football&keywords=jamile+johnson

and: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Jamile-Johnson-141132

and: http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?sid=880&script=%2Fcontent.asp&cid=1558356

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I saw 4.44 speed in the 40 yd on one of the web sites.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Isn't South Oak Cliff a basketball school?

Looks them up...Yep.

Whoa, grade fixing scandal cost them 4 state titles.

No recent big time football players but it looks like back in the 70s they had a pretty good run on DBs though.

[OU_Sooners75]

He isn't a safety, he is a cornerback.

His size suggests he may be a safety in college though.

[rock on sooner]

I saw 4.44 speed in the 40 yd on one of the web sites.
Just hope he can close on the ball....

[8timechamps]

He's a project player. Almost a guaranteed redshirt, but in time could develop into a solid contributor. Chalk this one up to Mike building solid depth after landed some really quality DBs in the past two years.

[cccasooner2]

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1367452/jamile-johnson-jr#

Also offered his teammate WR/S http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1347228/prentice-mckinney-jr#
http://247sports.com/Player/Prentice-McKinney-28628

[Curly Bill]

He's a project player. Almost a guaranteed redshirt, but in time could develop into a solid contributor. Chalk this one up to Mike building solid depth after landed some really quality DBs in the past two years.

He's the project player? His ranking (FWIW) is much higher than some of the DB's we signed this year. I saw a couple of em play in fact and have yet to be very impressed, so what makes you think this guy is the project and the backup to some of the guys we signed this year?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

He's the project player? His ranking (FWIW) is much higher than some of the DB's we signed this year. I saw a couple of em play in fact and have yet to be very impressed, so what makes you think this guy is the project and the backup to some of the guys we signed this year?

If his stats are anywhere near right, then he is squarely in the tweener range.

[picasso]

Damn these coaches! Does this kid even play foosball?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Damn these coaches! Does this kid even play foosball?

My concern is more with Mike repeating history here. His last time here, he took a lot of gambles on "tweeners" trying to find big corners and another TGRW. We ended up with 9 Safeties on the roster and 1 CB.

[OU_Sooners75]

He's a project player. Almost a guaranteed redshirt, but in time could develop into a solid contributor. Chalk this one up to Mike building solid depth after landed some really quality DBs in the past two years.


Chalk this one up to help get his friend and teammate.

[cccasooner2]

If his stats are anywhere near right, then he is squarely in the tweener range.

Stats from Scout: " As a junior, Johnson collected 74 tackles, 15 tackles for a loss, 21 pass break ups, three interceptions, forced two fumbles and recovered two fumbles. "

What is the tweener part of the stats?

[Ruf/Nek7]

After watching his video on Hudl, i walk away with little impression of the kid. I am glad he chose OU but i just do not see this kid playing a bigger role than special teams, which is important. He has great size and decent speed but IMO, he is slow in coverage. He could benefit from learning under Mike. He needs to improve quickness of his feet.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Stats from Scout: " As a junior, Johnson collected 74 tackles, 15 tackles for a loss, 21 pass break ups, three interceptions, forced two fumbles and recovered two fumbles. "

What is the tweener part of the stats?

6'1" 190 - typically that body type as a junior in HS translates to 40-50 lbs of weight gain in college. DBs tend to be in the 140-155 range.

[cccasooner2]

6'1" 190 - typically that body type as a junior in HS translates to 40-50 lbs of weight gain in college. DBs tend to be in the 140-155 range.

Thanks, on LT they said his legs were too long. :)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Thanks, on LT they said his legs were too long. :)

heh. Everything is speculation at this point without confirmed numbers (is that weight way overstated/is he 18 already etc). However, in general, at age 16 the various body types start to separate and the athletic guys who are at the high end of the scale (which this kid is) are the most difficult to predict. At this point, I'd project him as a linebacker assuming he is between 200 and 205 next year. If he gets bigger than that, he is going to have his hand on the ground at OU.

[OU_Sooners75]

6'1" 190 - typically that body type as a junior in HS translates to 40-50 lbs of weight gain in college. DBs tend to be in the 140-155 range.


Yeah, im calling complete and utter BS on this one!

Derrick Strait: 5'11 194# when he was being recruited. Going to the NFL: 5'11 189#

Adrian Peterson: 6'1.5 205# when he was being recruited. Going into the NFL: 6'1 217#

Aaron Colvin: 6' 180 # when he was being recruited. After his Senior Season: 6' 192#


So where is this 40-50 pounds you speak of?

[OU_Sooners75]

Thanks, on LT they said his legs were too long. :)

His legs too long? Wtf?
Smh at the ignorance of some people.

What's next he ain't dark enough?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Yeah, im calling complete and utter BS on this one!

Derrick Strait: 5'11 194# when he was being recruited. Going to the NFL: 5'11 189#

Adrian Peterson: 6'1.5 205# when he was being recruited. Going into the NFL: 6'1 217#

Aaron Colvin: 6' 180 # when he was being recruited. After his Senior Season: 6' 192#


So where is this 40-50 pounds you speak of?

It is about "WHEN" and "Body Type". I had a long as crap post that got eaten about the differences between those who gain weight easily and those who can't gain a pound. I wasn't going to rewrite it just for this thread.

In general:
1. Unknown Age - we have no idea which part of the growth curve he is in. For example, I was basically a year ahead of everyone -> 130 (FR-14), 135 (SO-15), 155 (JR - 16), 165 (SR - 17), 187 (FR College - 18). Notice there are some huge jumps in there based on age (and I played 4+ hours of basketball every day).
2. Unknown Body Type - Some kids gain weight easily and some can't gain anything. Based on how he looks, he resembles a meso/endomorph and could (depending on which) gain weight easily. Colvin and Straight (in your examples) were ectomorphs and fall into the don't gain weight easily category. Peterson was a pure mesomorph.
3. No idea if that 190 is correct. Lighter guys tend to lie about their weight and push it up (which honestly I'd say was the case with both Strait and Colvin).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Yeah, im calling complete and utter BS on this one!

Derrick Strait: 5'11 194# when he was being recruited. Going to the NFL: 5'11 189#

Adrian Peterson: 6'1.5 205# when he was being recruited. Going into the NFL: 6'1 217#

Aaron Colvin: 6' 180 # when he was being recruited. After his Senior Season: 6' 192#


So where is this 40-50 pounds you speak of?

Pulling up some older guys ->

Rocky Calmus (JR) -> 6'2 - 190
Roy Williams -> 6'0 - 180 (he is probably the best analog since he was an endomorph and had to fight weight gain his entire time at OU)

[cccasooner2]

jkm, if I remember correctly you are the LB guru of this particular OU fan site. I have a soft spot for walk-ons. What are your thoughts on a WO legacy by uncle and his chances for playing time down the road? Jaxon Uhles will be xfering to OU this spring from Pitt St. He seems to have a Tom Wort type of body and was very productive (166 tackles his Sr. yr) at NN with Jordan Evans.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/682590/highlights/18261424

[Eielson]

Colvin's 180 sounds about right in HS, and that's from having seen him in person multiple times. LBs like Shannon and Lindley are barely recognizable now, though. A lot of it depends on what position you play. Our CB's don't seem to go through huge transformations like LBs and other positions. There are a lot of great LB prospects that are under 200 lbs, so we recruit them, and then bulk them up. It wouldn't make sense to bulk up a CB to 230-240.

[starclassic tama]

without doing any research, i think the majority of linebackers OU has recruited in the past 4-5 years have been about 190 or less as seniors. as juniors, they probably weighed significantly less. i know nelson was 180 soaking wet as a senior. i think jkm's point is, legitimate 190 as a junior is a pretty big player, and a huge safety. i'm not sure about 40-50, but if a player is that big as a junior in high school, a college strength and conditioning coach could realistically expect him to be 220+ by the time he gets settled in on campus.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

jkm, if I remember correctly you are the LB guru of this particular OU fan site. I have a soft spot for walk-ons. What are your thoughts on a WO legacy by uncle and his chances for playing time down the road? Jaxon Uhles will be xfering to OU this spring from Pitt St. He seems to have a Tom Wort type of body and was very productive (166 tackles his Sr. yr) at NN with Jordan Evans.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/682590/highlights/18261424

I don't really make any observations until I see them play here.

[8timechamps]

He's the project player? His ranking (FWIW) is much higher than some of the DB's we signed this year. I saw a couple of em play in fact and have yet to be very impressed, so what makes you think this guy is the project and the backup to some of the guys we signed this year?

First, you should know me well enough to know I don't put much (if any) emphasis on "rankings". So, I never really care what the services say.

Secondly, outside of Parker and Jordan Thomas, I'm not convinced any of the other DBs we signed in this class are going to be starters in the next two years. My thinking is geared more toward the 2013 class. I can easily see L.J. Moore and Stanvon Taylor starting ahead of this kid (or any of the true CBs we signed this year), and it's going to be tough for anyone to break the safety depth chart in the next few years (Byrd, Thomas, Parker and J. Thomas).

Lastly, what I see when I look at his film:

He's not exceptionally fast, but does close well for this stage in his career. His size is confusing to me (in that I really don't know where he fits on the field...is he a cover guy, or a safety/nickle hybrid?). His cover skills are raw: he takes his eyes off of the ball early (consistently), and has a tendency to drop too early. I like his overall physical style, and like I said, he does seem to be quick to react, but he in no way looks remotely ready to come in and compete as a true freshman.

The problem is that the only tape available is from his junior year, so there is a lot that can happen between now and when he suits up for his first game in Norman. Still, I think he's going to be an almost assured redshirt, and could develop into a solid contributor in time.

[8timechamps]

Yeah, im calling complete and utter BS on this one!

Derrick Strait: 5'11 194# when he was being recruited. Going to the NFL: 5'11 189#

Adrian Peterson: 6'1.5 205# when he was being recruited. Going into the NFL: 6'1 217#

Aaron Colvin: 6' 180 # when he was being recruited. After his Senior Season: 6' 192#


So where is this 40-50 pounds you speak of?

There's a flaw in that logic though...

There's no way to know what kind of body Strait (or any recruit) had/has coming into OU, versus what they leave with. There's no way a kid can spend 4 years in an elite program, undergoing the S&C/nutrition program that accompanies it, and leave the "same". It's physically impossible for a player to go through a strength program as stringent as OU's, and lose muscle mass. I'm not saying Strait came in with 50 pounds of fat (because we all know that's not true), but clearly he had some bad weight that he shed during his time at OU, in addition to adding muscle mass.

There are the rare cases when a kid arrives on campus in similar shape as when he leaves (AD for example), but that's definitely the minority. We may see another one soon in Samaje Perine.

[OU_Sooners75]

There's a flaw in that logic though...

There's no way to know what kind of body Strait (or any recruit) had/has coming into OU, versus what they leave with. There's no way a kid can spend 4 years in an elite program, undergoing the S&C/nutrition program that accompanies it, and leave the "same". It's physically impossible for a player to go through a strength program as stringent as OU's, and lose muscle mass. I'm not saying Strait came in with 50 pounds of fat (because we all know that's not true), but clearly he had some bad weight that he shed during his time at OU, in addition to adding muscle mass.

There are the rare cases when a kid arrives on campus in similar shape as when he leaves (AD for example), but that's definitely the minority. We may see another one soon in Samaje Perine.

There is no flaw, it is what was reported. Everyone can try to make up a bunch of BS...but that is all it is.

The thought of someone trying to convince everyone that from his junior year till the time he is finished in college that a player gains 40-50 pounds is a absurd.

Is gaining that much weight possible? Yes. But to say it is how it normally happens for recruits in Johnson's position, is misleading.

As far as losing muscle mass, I doubt any player/recruit loses muscle mass. I think they actually gain it.

However, they may have to lose weight to gain healthy weight. I had to when I reported to college. I reported at 280. They had me on a diet to lose 15 pounds. Then I gained muscle once hitting the target weight. It caused me to gain back up to 285 after the first year.

I would say that may be what happens at OU with some recruits/players. Their weight may be deemed unhealthy, so they lose the fat and unhealthy weight. Then gain back healthy weight.

[OU_Sooners75]

Pulling up some older guys ->

Rocky Calmus (JR) -> 6'2 - 190
Roy Williams -> 6'0 - 180 (he is probably the best analog since he was an endomorph and had to fight weight gain his entire time at OU)


Okay, so you give two guys out of how many? I gave three guys and compared their recruit profiles to their NFL profiles.

Lets fact it, it isn't as typical as you want to believe.

[OU_Sooners75]

It is about "WHEN" and "Body Type". I had a long as crap post that got eaten about the differences between those who gain weight easily and those who can't gain a pound. I wasn't going to rewrite it just for this thread.

In general:
1. Unknown Age - we have no idea which part of the growth curve he is in. For example, I was basically a year ahead of everyone -> 130 (FR-14), 135 (SO-15), 155 (JR - 16), 165 (SR - 17), 187 (FR College - 18). Notice there are some huge jumps in there based on age (and I played 4+ hours of basketball every day).
2. Unknown Body Type - Some kids gain weight easily and some can't gain anything. Based on how he looks, he resembles a meso/endomorph and could (depending on which) gain weight easily. Colvin and Straight (in your examples) were ectomorphs and fall into the don't gain weight easily category. Peterson was a pure mesomorph.
3. No idea if that 190 is correct. Lighter guys tend to lie about their weight and push it up (which honestly I'd say was the case with both Strait and Colvin).

You always act as if your opinion is correct. Face it, it isn't on this. It is not typical of any player that comes into college to gain 40-50 pounds. Yes, it happens, but it is not the norm.

Hell, Linemen generally gain 25-40 pounds. Some LBs the same. A lot of it depends on the the position, their body frame, and the weight they enter with.

To say that Johnson coming in as big as he is isn't good, is not exactly being honest. There is no way they are going to give him a workout program to gain 40-50 pounds. In fact, they may ask him to lose the bad weight and gain the good weight (muscle) back and maintain his weight.

IMHO, he is build more like a safety than a cornerback, but they did recruit him as a CB.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You always act as if your opinion is correct. Face it, it isn't on this.

You need tag yourself as "Irony Impaired". I can't remember one single response to any of my posts that you didn't say "YOU ARE WRONG!!!11". Heck, even ones where I'm agreeing with you, you say I'm wrong (like the one on the football board).

As for this discussion, there is only one verifiable set of numbers -> The combine. We can't have any confidence in any other numbers prior to those. My 40-50 lb statement was simply taking end game numbers 220-230 for the guy he most resembled (Corey Nelson) and adding 10 pounds to the final weight (difference between starting weights) and subtracting his weight from them. Had I stuck with he'll be somewhere around 225-230 at OU you probably wouldn't have batted an eye.

The key thing is that our program hasn't shown much concern over guys keeping their weight at a certain level. If a guy gains 3 lbs and it is all muscle then we are good with that. We just don't seem to be big on establishing "playing weights" and morphing body types within that number.



It is not typical of any player that comes into college to gain 40-50 pounds. Yes, it happens, but it is not the norm.

There are 2 positions where we see this more often than others -> Linebacker and Defensive End. I'd say it is the norm at DE and semi-common at LB.




Hell, Linemen generally gain 25-40 pounds. Some LBs the same. A lot of it depends on the the position, their body frame, and the weight they enter with.

I agree, some linemen gain 60+ pounds (see Messner, Chris). Each position tends to have a range of gain depending on frame size (Linebacker is probably 15-25 avg with 40-50 on the high end)



To say that Johnson coming in as big as he is isn't good, is not exactly being honest. There is no way they are going to give him a workout program to gain 40-50 pounds. In fact, they may ask him to lose the bad weight and gain the good weight (muscle) back and maintain his weight.

The kid doesn't have much bad weight to lose. He is probably at 15-18% body fat as it is. If you compare pics of him and Corey Nelson they look very very similar with this kid maybe being a little broader in the shoulders.


IMHO, he is build more like a safety than a cornerback, but they did recruit him as a CB.

I can agree with you. My issue is mainly from Mike's history with big DBs. He had a huge problem in his last tenure with grabbing guys that gained too much weight to play effectively in the secondary. This, coupled with BV's grabbing guys who couldn't gain weight at linebacker caused us to have a lot of guys who were tweeners LB/Safeties.

[OU_Sooners75]

You need tag yourself as "Irony Impaired". I can't remember one single response to any of my posts that you didn't say "YOU ARE WRONG!!!11". Heck, even ones where I'm agreeing with you, you say I'm wrong (like the one on the football board).


Then you are senile. I agree with some of your posts. But the ones where you come strolling in acting as if your word is authority and you know as fact are the ones I dispute. Because most of the time, your "factual" posts are nothing more than opinion and uneducated guesses.

If I had the time, I would go through all seniors alone on this coming team and compare the numbers. But i don't, I will be willing to GUESS, that my side of this little debate is more the norm than yours.

Hell, Ill make time and do the last 3 or 4 senior classes.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Then you are senile. I agree with some of your posts. But the ones where you come strolling in acting as if your word is authority and you know as fact are the ones I dispute. Because most of the time, your "factual" posts are nothing more than opinion and uneducated guesses.

If I had the time, I would go through all seniors alone on this coming team and compare the numbers. But i don't, I will be willing to GUESS, that my side of this little debate is more the norm than yours.

Hell, Ill make time and do the last 3 or 4 senior classes.

Sweet, so you'll have all of their JR in high school numbers and you'll only be doing the oddball body types right? The ones in our tweener range -> LB, DE, S (big ones, not the lean guys).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Sweet, so you'll have all of their JR in high school numbers and you'll only be doing the oddball body types right? The ones in our tweener range -> LB, DE, S (big ones, not the lean guys).

Actually we dont' even need all of this. According to this (no idea how accurate it is) -> http://www.thefootballacademy-llc.com/uploads/Sports_Nutrition_for_the_Youth_and_High_School_Ath lete.pdf -> the average player does a 15% year over year weight gain. So if we have their senior year weight we can backtrack to get their junior year weight gain. However, I think that 15% may be a little high (since a 180 player would gain 24 pounds) we should probably discount it back to 10% to be safe. That would put someone at 160 as a junior at 176 as a senior. That means that in college if they gain 24 to 34 lbs they would be the range that I gave. That would put them at 210 at safety which is fairly reasonable for the larger chaps.

[8timechamps]

There is no flaw, it is what was reported. Everyone can try to make up a bunch of BS...but that is all it is.

The thought of someone trying to convince everyone that from his junior year till the time he is finished in college that a player gains 40-50 pounds is a absurd.

Is gaining that much weight possible? Yes. But to say it is how it normally happens for recruits in Johnson's position, is misleading.

As far as losing muscle mass, I doubt any player/recruit loses muscle mass. I think they actually gain it.

However, they may have to lose weight to gain healthy weight. I had to when I reported to college. I reported at 280. They had me on a diet to lose 15 pounds. Then I gained muscle once hitting the target weight. It caused me to gain back up to 285 after the first year.

I would say that may be what happens at OU with some recruits/players. Their weight may be deemed unhealthy, so they lose the fat and unhealthy weight. Then gain back healthy weight.

What was "reported"? I'm lost, I don't know exactly what you mean.

As for this:


The thought of someone trying to convince everyone that from his junior year till the time he is finished in college that a player gains 40-50 pounds is a absurd.

Look at Chuka Ndulue: Senior Year in high school: 240 lbs End of junior year at OU: 275 lbs - First, if he weighs 275 lbs, then I'm Superman. He's closer to 300, but for the sake of this example, let's go with 275. That's a 35 lb gain in 3 years.

Look at Gabe Ikard: Senior Year in high school: 240 lbs End of senior year at OU: 300 lbs. That's a 60 lb gain in 4 years.

Look at Brennan Clay: End of junior year in high school: 176 lbs End of senior year at OU: 201 lbs. That's 25 lbs.

Of course smaller players (DBs, WRs, etc) aren't going to gain 50 pounds in four years, but if you look at the "bad weight" they lose in combination with the muscle mass gained, it's much closer than you think.

Again, I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing, but to be clear, my point is that it's not crazy to think that what a kid weighs his junior year in high school may not be close to what he weighs by the time he's done at OU. I suspect it's the norm.


EDIT: I went back and re-read your post, and I understand what you meant by "that's what was reported". Sorry, I'm dense sometimes. Anyway, I still think a players body is much different his junior year in high school versus the time of graduation (or departure) from OU. It may not show up if you compare weight his junior year to weight his senior year, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Things have changed a lot at the high school level in recent years, but even the best football programs don't compare to an elite S&C/Nutrition program at an elite college level. There's just no way a kid can spend four years in a program like that and walk away unchanged.

[OU_Sooners75]

Sweet, so you'll have all of their JR in high school numbers and you'll only be doing the oddball body types right? The ones in our tweener range -> LB, DE, S (big ones, not the lean guys).

Junior Senior, doesn't matter, which, whatever information I can find. These are reported numbers by Sooner resource, soonerstats.com



Granger
DeMarcus
2005
DT
6
2
320
2009
6
2
327
7


Williams
Trent
2006
OT
6
5
321
2009
6
5
318
-3


Beal
Jeremy
2006
DE
6
4
254
2010
6
3
267
13


McCoy
Gerald
2006
DT
6
4
289
2009
6
4
297
8


Mensik
Eric
2006
TE/OL
6
5
246
2010
6
6
288
42


Alexander
Frank
2007
DE
6
5
235
2011
6
4
255
20


Broyles
Ryan
2007
WR
5
11
175
2011
5
10
188
13


Lewis
Travis
2007
LB
6
2
220
2011
6
2
227
7


Stephenson
Donald
2007
OT
6
6
275
2011
6
6
307
32


Proctor
Sam
2007
DB
6
0
202
2011
6
0
222
20


Hanna
James
2008
TE
6
4
215
2011
6
4
243
28


Jones
Landry
2008
QB
6
4
211
2012
6
4
218
7


King
David
2008
DE
6
4
240
2012
6
5
286
46


Walker
Casey
2008
DT
6
2
285
2012
6
2
309
24


Habern
Ben
2008
OC
6
4
275
2012
6
4
286
11


Harris
Lamar
2008
DB
6
2
180
2012
6
2
186
6


McGee
Stacey
2008
DT
6
4
265
2012
6
4
300
35


Ratterree
Trent
2008
TE
6
4
232
2011
6
3
248
16


Good
Stephen
2008
OL
6
5
305
2011
6
6
305
0


Aladenoye
Josh
2009
OL
6
5
342
2011
6
6
316
-26


Wort
Tom
2009
LB
6
0
220
2012
6
0
237
17


Johnson
Lane
2010
TE/OL
6
6
264
2012
6
7
303
39


Jefferson
Tony
2010
DB
5
11
198
2012
5
11
212
14


Wilson
Julian
2010
DB
6
2
176
2014
6
2
195
19


Aaron
Colvin
2010
DB
5
11
176
2013
6
0
182
6


Bell
Blake
2010
QB
6
6
234
2014
6
6
263
29


Gastelum
Caleb
2010
LB
6
1
208
2014
6
1
211
3


Grissom
Geneo
2010
DE
6
4
233
2014
6
4
254
21


Nelson
Corey
2010
LB
6
1
208
2013
6
1
215
7


Thompson
Tyrus
2010
OT
6
4
311
2014
6
5
316
5

[OU_Sooners75]

The above listed is 30 players. I didnt go searching for certain numbers. I just clicked on a player from soonerstats.com and inserted their numbers.

In other words, I didnt click on every player on the roster from 2008 to 2010.

give me more time and I will make sure I do. This is just a start.

JKM, these numbers reflect from the time they signed with OU, to the time they left OU. all players listed above were at OU a minimum of 4 years. Most 5 years. the 2010 class, most are still at OU, so their final weights are not certain, just what is being reported as of last football season.

JKM, if you can find me legitimate numbers from their Junior season, then I will plug them into the spreadsheet.

If you can't then lets be honest, your 40-50# number you threw out there is a little absurd.

[OU_Sooners75]

eom

[OU_Sooners75]

8timechamp...

I am arguing the opinion of JKM that players regularly gain 40-50 pounds from their Junior year in high school to the time they graduate college.

Coaching high school ball, I can say with confidence, most kids that go on to play college ball, do not gain 40-50 pounds from Junior year to the time they graduate college.

I will say that if their position requires it, and/or they make a position change, then I can see it happening more regularly. But on average, it does not.

And when some guy just throws out the opinion that a DB in high school will gain 40-50 pounds, just shows us his lack of knowledge when throwing numbers out there.

What cracks me up the most is he feels that a DB should weigh around 165 his junuior year in high school...LOL

[starclassic tama]

he may have threw a specific number out there talking about something that can't be verified, but anyone with half a brain understands exactly what he was getting at. you (75) get so insecure about yourself every time he posts that you will try to pick apart his semantics for 4 pages and end up in the same spot everytime, "I COACH HIGH SCHOOL BALL. I PLAYED IN THE BIG 12 SO I KNOW."

a kid that is already a solid 6'1 190 as a junior in high school does not project as a corner the vast majority of the time. there is no scientific way to measure the numbers because every kid's body is different. the kid could end up a solid 188 pound corner, or he could be up around 220-230 and end up as an edge rusher or mike backer. who knows? but the majority of the time, a kid with his frame as a junior does not project as a corner and you know it.

[OU_Sooners75]

he may have threw a specific number out there talking about something that can't be verified, but anyone with half a brain understands exactly what he was getting at. you (75) get so insecure about yourself every time he posts that you will try to pick apart his semantics for 4 pages and end up in the same spot everytime, "I COACH HIGH SCHOOL BALL. I PLAYED IN THE BIG 12 SO I KNOW."

a kid that is already a solid 6'1 190 as a junior in high school does not project as a corner the vast majority of the time. there is no scientific way to measure the numbers because every kid's body is different. the kid could end up a solid 188 pound corner, or he could be up around 220-230 and end up as an edge rusher or mike backer. who knows? but the majority of the time, a kid with his frame as a junior does not project as a corner and you know it.

There is no insecurity about it. The guy threw out a number with a bunch of "opinions" backing up his claim.

I presented some facts to combat his opinion. To blindly throw out a number range of 40-50# without the ability to back it up has set himself up for this debate or argument.

That said, I wouldn't expect someone such as yourself to understand this. Go through history of this site and you will find your drivel that is well, drivel.

Obviously you have failed to read much of what I have said. Johnson is built like a safety, but has been recruited as a Corner.

Then combat what JKM said, i gave actual numbers of players, from the time they reported to OU, till the time they were at least Seniors, most cases, in their 5th year. None of which even remotely suggests that it is normal for a kid in his position to gain 40-50 pounds.

So don't come at me like I am the bad guy here. If someone wants to blindly throw out numbers without actual credible facts to back it up, then they should be prepared to receive whatever it is they receive during rebuttal.

And if you are going to try to come at me and ridicule me, at least get some facts about me straight. I never once said I played ball in the Big 12. And I will bring up my experiences through playing and coaching, just like you would if there was anything you actually knew, and people actually talked about it.

[OU_Sooners75]

BTW, talked to a guy named Dante Jones. He said gaining 40-50 pounds in this time frame isn't as normal as people want to think either. He also mentioned that it all depends position, body type, etc....kind of like I mentioned....hmmm....

BTW, he did play at OU. And he said he gained about 45 pounds in college, 190 (Senior year HS), 205, 210, 220, 235 his senior year in college. He did say that injury played a part of his weight heading into his senior season at OU.

So now, I have found 3 that gained over 40 pounds.

[Eielson]

Stats from Scout: " As a junior, Johnson collected 74 tackles, 15 tackles for a loss, 21 pass break ups, three interceptions, forced two fumbles and recovered two fumbles. "

What is the tweener part of the stats?

I'm guessing he meant physical stats.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Sigh, I feel like you only read the first sentence of my posts and then jump to conclusions.

1. I listed in my "Assumptions" that I was assuming the kid was 16, that he had a weight gaining body type (based on appearance), and that the number listed was accurate.

2. The reason that I chose the number 40-50 wasn't because of weight gained at OU, it was because most males gain a TON of weight between 16 and 19. After that age, LBM gain is incredibly difficult. The normal pattern is massive surge of height (no weight) at 14 (making you look like a beanpole), then big accumulation of weight at 15, then one last growth spurt at 16 followed by massive weight gain over the next 2-3 years with it pretty much tailing off by 19 unless your name is David Robinson. in other words, no where did I say in any of my posts that he was going to gain that weight solely at OU, I said from NOW until he was finished at OU which includes that huge weight gain as a JR.

If you look at my list (which is skewed as I was a year ahead) -> 5'8 130 (FR-14), 5'8 135 (SO-15), 5'10 155 (JR - 16), 5'10 165 (SR - 17), 5'10 187 (FR College - 18) -> You will notice that I gained 32 pounds from 16-18. This kid is 35 LBs heavier than I was as a JR. When you consider that my scrawny self gained 35 LBs in that time, is it that much of a stretch to assume this kid can gain 40?


Now let's look at Derrick Strait, one of your examples. Derrick was born on 8/27/1980 which made him 19 when he got to OU at 5'11 194. In other words, SR- 18, JR-17, SO-16, FR-15. This means 2 things -> 1) he probably followed a growth pattern similar to mine and 2) he was pretty much done growing by the time he got to OU. If he followed something similar to mine, that means he gained roughly 40 lbs from age 16-19 and 33 lbs overall.

That is for a cornerback.

Now, lets look at you. You said you were 280 when you got to college. What were you as a JR (assuming you turned 16 as a JR)? 235? 240?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Next one, Dante Jones

Birth Date -> March 23, 1965
Graduation -> 1983

This makes him on a split very similar to my actual one -> 17 SR, 16 JR, 15 SO, 14 FR. He was a lot taller so he was at 190 as a SR whereas I was a paltry 165. However, because of his age he still had room to put on a lot of weight as a FR (15 lbs). Working back, he was probably 170ish as a JR and 140 ish as a FR. 170 to 235 is a 65 lb gain from 16 through college. However, to my original point, more than 1/2 was accumulated in high school (35 lbs) which is where my numbers are coming from.

The central disagreement here revolves around you not recognizing that men gain a LOT of weight between age 16 and 18. Seriously, from 15 to 18 trying to keep boys fed will bankrupt you. I have smoked an extra turkey (which would feed 7) for my neighbor's twin boys when they come over and they are STILL hungry.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Heh I just realized that this kid is bigger as a junior than an All American Linebacker was as a SR.

[OU_Sooners75]

Sigh, I feel like you only read the first sentence of my posts and then jump to conclusions.

1. I listed in my "Assumptions" that I was assuming the kid was 16, that he had a weight gaining body type (based on appearance), and that the number listed was accurate.

2. The reason that I chose the number 40-50 wasn't because of weight gained at OU, it was because most males gain a TON of weight between 16 and 19. After that age, LBM gain is incredibly difficult. The normal pattern is massive surge of height (no weight) at 14 (making you look like a beanpole), then big accumulation of weight at 15, then one last growth spurt at 16 followed by massive weight gain over the next 2-3 years with it pretty much tailing off by 19 unless your name is David Robinson. in other words, no where did I say in any of my posts that he was going to gain that weight solely at OU, I said from NOW until he was finished at OU which includes that huge weight gain as a JR.

If you look at my list (which is skewed as I was a year ahead) -> 5'8 130 (FR-14), 5'8 135 (SO-15), 5'10 155 (JR - 16), 5'10 165 (SR - 17), 5'10 187 (FR College - 18) -> You will notice that I gained 32 pounds from 16-18. This kid is 35 LBs heavier than I was as a JR. When you consider that my scrawny self gained 35 LBs in that time, is it that much of a stretch to assume this kid can gain 40?


Now let's look at Derrick Strait, one of your examples. Derrick was born on 8/27/1980 which made him 19 when he got to OU at 5'11 194. In other words, SR- 18, JR-17, SO-16, FR-15. This means 2 things -> 1) he probably followed a growth pattern similar to mine and 2) he was pretty much done growing by the time he got to OU. If he followed something similar to mine, that means he gained roughly 40 lbs from age 16-19 and 33 lbs overall.

That is for a cornerback.

Now, lets look at you. You said you were 280 when you got to college. What were you as a JR (assuming you turned 16 as a JR)? 235? 240?

Did you play sports in high school and college? If so, was the sport defined with muscle like football or wrestling?

If you did not play sports in college or even high school, please don't try to compare weight gain.

I have now completed a list of all players that were seniors at OU and spent at least 4 years at OU since the senior class of 2008.

Average weight gain from the time they were added to the roster to the time they left OU, average weight gain is less than 12 pounds.

I understand what you are trying to say JKM, but I am afraid you are trying to compare weight gain of a normal exercised growing adolescent body with that of one that is pushing his/her body to the extreme physical pique (Or is it peak?).

I agree, every growing body will gain weight naturally. Hell, from my 9th grade year to my Senior year in high school I gained 60 pounds, but 40 of it was from freshman year to sophomore year (going off wrestling weights). The only weight gain I had my last 3 years was natural weight with growing taller. Went from 6-1 to 6-5 in a span of 3 years.

From my personal experiences, to my job as a coach, I can say with confidence, that most athletes will not gain 40-50 pounds from the time they are 17 to the time they are done with college (average age 22). As long as they are disciplined athletes.

I will upload the pdf file of the info I got of weight growth at OU since 2008. Granted, this information could be seen as misleading, since the information is only from the time they were added to the OU roster till the time they were done at OU. In other words it does not include weights or measurements from their junior years in high school. But i do feel it is a good indicator of my side of the debate.

[OU_Sooners75]

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/02/20/weight-differences-1/

[OU_Sooners75]

JKM, when i was also a wrestler, not just a football player. I reported at 280.

I wrestled at 265-270 my final 2 seasons.

Freshman year: heavyweight @ 220-225
Sophomore year: heavyweight @ 260-265
Junior year: heavyweight @ 265-270
Senior Year: heavyweight @265-270.

After wrestling both Junior and Senior year, I hovered between 275 and 280.

I also promised myself in high school I would not weigh more than 280 heading into football. I didn't want to drop a bunch of weight for wrestling. Nor did I want to gain a bunch of weight for football.

Believe it or not, most student athletes that are striving to get a sports scholarship in college are very conscious of their weight. I shot up 40 pounds from Freshman to Sophomore so I could compete on the OL. I also worked my butt off to make it as good of weight as I could, not fat.

I really busted my *** to maintain weight. I can honestly tell you that kids today do the same as I did when they have goals.

In fact, I had a guy come to me last season upset he gained 15 pounds over the summer, he didn't realize that he gained 3 inches over the summer as well. This was a sophomore.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Did you play sports in high school and college? If so, was the sport defined with muscle like football or wrestling?

Dude I went to Sapulpa, we basically had one set of coaches in the gym so we ALL worked out together regardless of sport (minus wrestling). Wrestling has always been an oddball because most wrestlers are trying to gain strength with no weight. Their program was similar HIIT with them wearing these plastic heat suits while they worked out. Otherwise whether I was in offseason football or baseball, it was the exact same workout in a dingy bomb shelter.



From my personal experiences, to my job as a coach, I can say with confidence, that most athletes will not gain 40-50 pounds from the time they are 17 to the time they are done with college (average age 22).

I will upload the pdf file of the info I got of weight growth at OU since 2008. Granted, this information could be seen as misleading, since the information is only from the time they were added to the OU roster till the time they were done at OU. In other words it does not include weights or measurements from their junior years in high school. But i do feel it is a good indicator of my side of the debate.

Once again, I'm not saying this either. The only reason I brought it up on this kid was that he is a JUNIOR (which I assumed meant he was 16). As I have said many times in this thread, IF he still has a mass gain curve to go, he COULD be squarely in the tweener category with a 40-50 lb weight gain.

Please note the assumed age has everything to do with that statement. Just between Dante Jones and Derrick Strait we see how much of an age difference there could be in the system. That is a year and half worth of age difference as Seniors.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

JKM, when i was also a wrestler, not just a football player. I graduated at 280.

I wrestled at 265-270.

Freshman year: heavyweigth @ 220-225
Sophomore year: heavyweight @ 260-265
Junior year: heavyweight @ 265-270
Senior Year: heavyweight @265-270.

After wrestling both Junior and Senior year, I hovered between 275 and 280.

What age as a sophomore? (just to see at what age your weight gain was at)

The wrestling makes the weight gain understandable. As I stated before, they put a premium on strength gain with no weight gain.

[OU_Sooners75]

What age as a sophomore? (just to see at what age your weight gain was at)

The wrestling makes the weight gain understandable. As I stated before, they put a premium on strength gain with no weight gain.

I graduated at 18.
17-18
16-17
15-16
14-15


Yes, wrestling is a premium when it comes to weight gain. But as a football coach now, we do see growth, but not at the rate that you suggested.

The only time we see it is if the kid is lazy, or we have him switch positions (usually from a skilled position to a line position).

But like I said, the more serious athletes take it very serious. They are very mindful of weight gain.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I graduated at 18.
17-18
16-17
15-16
14-15


Yes, wrestling is a premium when it comes to weight gain. But as a football coach now, we do see growth, but not at the rate that you suggested.

The only time we see it is if the kid is lazy, or we have him switch positions (usually from a skilled position to a line position).

But like I said, the more serious athletes take it very serious. They are very mindful of weight gain.

So your numbers actually line up with mine, especially if you had that significant of a growth spurt at the 16 range.

You had the same monster weight gain at 15-16 I did -> You 40, me 20. You probably went from 5'5 to 6'1 the year before whereas I was like 5'2 to 5'8.

Where the difference comes is in the 16-17 range where you had the second major growth spurt (which would have destabilized weight gain until it was done). The question is whether you'd already achieved your frame's athletic max weight or if you were carrying too much bad weight from younger. My guess is that, especially with the Wrestling, you spent that entire time shedding bad weight for LBM (please note that this isn't meant to be offensive, just explaining what might have happened). In other words, had you been at 12-17% body fat like us "shrimps" you would have seen similar weight gains over that time.

[OU_Sooners75]

To be honest, it didn't seem like bad weight. I was far from fat.

However, it was simply amazing what happened when I got to college.

They got me on a new diet. I dropped from 280 to 265 by Christmas (I was red-shirted my freshman year). I was probably in the best shape of my life (muscle wise). After dropping that weight, it seemed like it was taking forever to gain weight back from muscle mass gain.

But after about 3 weeks at 265-267, I started to see results. I started to balloon fast (weight wise) all muscle, not fat. Think high protein, very high protein diet. By the time I reported my sophomore year (freshman year on the field) I weighed 290. I had gained 10 pounds since arriving at college. By the time I reported my 3rd year, I weight 295. My 4th year, 305. My Final year, 315. Total i gained 35 pounds in college...but in the process I shredded 15 pounds and gained 50 pounds of muscle.

at 6'6 inches tall and 315, I was solid. body fat of 17%. It was truly amazing.

Had i not been red-shirted my freshman year, I don't think it would have happened that way. I absolutely hated weight lifting when i first got to college, then I fell in love with it before I was done with semester #1.

[8timechamps]

8timechamp...

I am arguing the opinion of JKM that players regularly gain 40-50 pounds from their Junior year in high school to the time they graduate college.

Coaching high school ball, I can say with confidence, most kids that go on to play college ball, do not gain 40-50 pounds from Junior year to the time they graduate college.

I will say that if their position requires it, and/or they make a position change, then I can see it happening more regularly. But on average, it does not.

And when some guy just throws out the opinion that a DB in high school will gain 40-50 pounds, just shows us his lack of knowledge when throwing numbers out there.

What cracks me up the most is he feels that a DB should weigh around 165 his junuior year in high school...LOL

I really can't address the DBs with any real background, but I also coach (D-line) at the high school level (going on my 6th year). I'm not a paid full-time coach, it's something I do to help the school and because I have fun doing it, so I am by no means an "expert". It's not uncommon at all for a lineman to add 40+ pounds from the end of their junior year to the end of their college career. As you probably know, the biggest kids end up having to lose weight...regain muscle...before they ever even see the field at the collegiate level.

As for JKM, I just don't get the feeling that he's trying to do anything more than have a discussion. JKM certainly understands the game far more than the average fan, but I don't take his posts as "I'm right and all others are wrong". Plus, he's been around (as have you) long enough to know he isn't like that.

Eh, I'm kinda done with this one. We probably spent far too little time discussing the actual commit in this thread...but, that's what we do! :)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

To be honest, it didn't seem like bad weight. I was far from fat.

Once again, I'm not necessarily saying you were. I also understand your perception based on kids today. When I look at my 20 year old yearbook there are maybe 10 people out of 1000 that you would consider seriously overweight. You look at yearbook today and you don't get off of the 1st page. What this means to me is you have more kids carrying bad weight forward into those growth spurts. So you are not going to see as much weight gain as body change in those kids. However, when you look at pictures of THIS kid, you see he is already around 13-16% as he has decent vascularity. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the kid was already almost 18 based on how he looks.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Eh, I'm kinda done with this one. We probably spent far too little time discussing the actual commit in this thread...but, that's what we do! :)

Heresy!! We've had 178 page threads on blank topics!!!

[OU_Sooners75]

Eh, I'm kinda done with this one. We probably spent far too little time discussing the actual commit in this thread...but, that's what we do! :)

I hate the off season! LOL

[KantoSooner]

Heresy!! We've had 178 page threads on blank topics!!!

Hell, we've eclipsed 200 on Deleted threads!

It's how we roll.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Hell, we've eclipsed 200 on Deleted threads!

It's how we roll.

Yes, but that didn't break the board like the mime topics did :D

[Scott D]

oh those mime topics were fun.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

It is about "WHEN" and "Body Type". I had a long as crap post that got eaten about the differences between those who gain weight easily and those who can't gain a pound. I wasn't going to rewrite it just for this thread.

In general:
1. Unknown Age - we have no idea which part of the growth curve he is in. For example, I was basically a year ahead of everyone -> 130 (FR-14), 135 (SO-15), 155 (JR - 16), 165 (SR - 17), 187 (FR College - 18). Notice there are some huge jumps in there based on age (and I played 4+ hours of basketball every day).
2. Unknown Body Type - Some kids gain weight easily and some can't gain anything. Based on how he looks, he resembles a meso/endomorph and could (depending on which) gain weight easily. Colvin and Straight (in your examples) were ectomorphs and fall into the don't gain weight easily category. Peterson was a pure mesomorph.
3. No idea if that 190 is correct. Lighter guys tend to lie about their weight and push it up (which honestly I'd say was the case with both Strait and Colvin).

1. The only birthdate i could find was 1996 which would put him at 19? I just can't believe that is right.
3. His senior year, he said he was 6'1 205, but he reported at Texas Tech at 6'0 192. What is 15 pounds between friends? If his age is 18 and he added 13 that would put 148 to 192 in 3 years which is about right. If he is 19, then I'd assume that the weights were right (160 and 205) and they leaned him out over the summer. I still think he is going to struggle to keep that weight down enough to stay at corner.