Future of legalized pot

[jkjsooner]

I'm curious what you guys think about the future of legalized pot. Will the the pendulum swing back at some point? Will there be a push-back from the voters or federal government (especially under a different administration)?

Here's something that I think Colorado should be concerned with. The legal pot will ultimately make its way to the black market in other states. (That's especially true if pot becomes very cheap in Colorado which I predict will happen since it is a very easily produced commodity.) Once this happens the federal government may be forced to change their hands-off policy toward Colorado.

The only way I think that this won't happen is if surrounding states change their policy on marijuana but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


Note: I don't intend for this to be a pro/anti pot thread. Just curious what you think will happen in the future.

[Soonerjeepman]

They have made a big deal about it here in KC. As far as which direction Ks will go. As conservative as KS is, I'd say IF other states start seeing tax revenue increase it will be put on the table.

If you compare it to alcohol, it's hard for me to see a HUGE difference. The ONLY thing I can see is the purpose of both. There is no other purpose in smoking weed than to get high. You can have a drink..or even 2/3 and still be good and the purpose is the taste...and getting drunk but you can enjoy it without getting drunk. I don't know too many folks that just take one hit off of a joint for the flavor. Yes, I do know folks who par-take.

[yermom]

With the regulations in Colorado it might be cheaper somewhere like OK anyway

[achiro]

$400 an ounce is what they said on the news this morning,I don't know how long an ounce lasts but geez. Several folks they interviewed that were in line had just moved to CO. A Florida judge just ruled that the law requiring leeches to pass drug tests was unconstitutional. I don't see this going well for the CO handout system at all.

[badger]

Back in high school us kids would write an essay in English class on how a certain rule should be changed in favor of students to lessen restrictions on something, like chewing gum, drinking soda, eating junk food, you name it. Then, the school might be dumb enough to actually let the students test their "we can police ourselves" "we can be trusted" "we will prove that we can handle this added responsibility" theories and fail, because teenagers tend to be selfish, short sighted and above all, immature.

I have no doubt that the pot people have the best intentions in their own essays that they have presented and passed to their fellow voters. Inevitably, the rotten apples are going to make all of them look bad and there will be new laws created... because let's face it, there's always going to be those people that are not going to think about what's best for everyone else, but just what's best and most convenient for them. That'll involve a lot of buying weed cheaper on the black market, driving while high or smoking in public instead of private.

However, the cat is now out of the bag and unless the feds enforce their own rules, they are basically letting border jumpers head north, so to speak. The only thing that will stop the spread of more legalized marijuana and more sales and such is the federal government enforcing the federal laws.

I personally find it ironic that at the same time we're trying to restrict tobacco smokers and users with increasing stringent laws and taxes, we're not doing the same for marijuana. Smoking is smoking. Why are some smokers getting red carpet treatment and others getting told to quit or pay higher insurance?

[Soonerjeepman]

because they don't inhale....oh wait wrong thread~ lol

[Soonerjeepman]

I see some major issues on the ski slopes...and if JD were alive he'd have a real Rocky Mtn High to sing about.

[Soonerjeepman]

$400 an ounce is what they said on the news this morning,I don't know how long an ounce lasts but geez. Several folks they interviewed that were in line had just moved to CO. A Florida judge just ruled that the law requiring leeches to pass drug tests was unconstitutional. I don't see this going well for the CO handout system at all.

holy crap...who can afford that? I agree with JK, I think you'll see more of a black market pop up. Yes, I doubt anyone who actually moved to Co just for the weed is in a financial place to NOT be on the handout.

[Ton Loc]

$400 an ounce...
Should last you a week or so if you smoke everyday and its still cheaper here.

Are they letting people grow their own? That should drive the price down quite a bit.

[achiro]

holy crap...who can afford that? I agree with JK, I think you'll see more of a black market pop up. Yes, I doubt anyone who actually moved to Co just for the weed is in a financial place to NOT be on the handout.

I have never smoked pot so I really don't know much about it but could a person go buy the stuff legally for the higher price then just keep filling the bag with the cheap stuff and use the legal receipt or whatever they use to show legal purchase?

[olevetonahill]

Heard 50 fer a 1/4 this morning at the Vets office. Dont know. I know one old boy sold a full ounce of Good stuff for a 140 here last spring.

Price was running 120 to 150 depending on quality.

[olevetonahill]

Oh and I dont EVER see it being Legal in Oklahoma. Hell we still have Dry counties from what I here.

[badger]

Oh and I dont EVER see it being Legal in Oklahoma. Hell we still have Dry counties from what I here.

26 of em I think, and you couldn't buy alcohol on New Year's Day here in Tulsa :( (still closed on Sundays and holidays).

[Jacie]

Oh and I dont EVER see it being Legal in Oklahoma. Hell we still have Dry counties from what I here.

Perhaps you need to get out more.

badger, the real old timers have passed away but before 1959 alcohol sales were illegal in Oklahoma, yet anyone who wanted a drink could get one and fairly easily, so the situation then was analogous to the states bordering Colorado now. Liquor laws vary from state to state but no matter how they regulate it, because of demand they all still allow sales. Oklahoma lawmakers finally had to make it legal not because the drinkers clamored for it but because the state was losing out on a lucrative stream of revenue. My daddy preferred things before it was legal since afterwards there were regulations on when and where it could be sold.

The legal pot price will discourage bootlegging to other states but it does establish a baseline for other states to factor in that are considering legalization. The bottom line will be how much it costs or enhances Colorado state coffers.

[badger]

I would be worried about buying knockoff stuff on the black market if I was a pot smoker. Wasn't synthetic marijuana the stuff that sank Auburn's championship team?

[olevetonahill]

Perhaps you need to get out more.

badger, the real old timers have passed away but before 1959 alcohol sales were illegal in Oklahoma, yet anyone who wanted a drink could get one and fairly easily, so the situation then was analogous to the states bordering Colorado now. Liquor laws vary from state to state but no matter how they regulate it, because of demand they all still allow sales. Oklahoma lawmakers finally had to make it legal not because the drinkers clamored for it but because the state was losing out on a lucrative stream of revenue. My daddy preferred things before it was legal since afterwards there were regulations on when and where it could be sold.

The legal pot price will discourage bootlegging to other states but it does establish a baseline for other states to factor in that are considering legalization. The bottom line will be how much it costs or enhances Colorado state coffers.

What in hell does "Me gettin Out More" have to do with Dry counties in Oklahoma?
up untill just a couple of years ago you couldnt buy a Drink in Leflore County unless you belong to a Private club and brot yer own Bottle.

Im not talking Total Prohibition here .

[Wishboned]

$400 an ounce...
Should last you a week or so if you smoke everyday and its still cheaper here.

Are they letting people grow their own? That should drive the price down quite a bit.

You can grow your own, but the only way you can sell is if you are licenses.

Right now they're worried that the influx of buyers is going to cut into the medical marijuana customers supply since it's all from the same growers. They expect prices to go down eventually once supply meets up with demand. There's also the 25% tax added into the recreational purchase price.

Out of state users can only purchase 1/4 ounce at a time. But there's nothing to stop them from making several purchases in a day.

[Soonerjeepman]

I know in KS you can have, I think, up to 5 plants...it's just a misdemeanor. BUT if you have a scale, etc then you're in trouble.

[okiewaker]

I read that Coloradans can grow their own, up to 6 plants I believe.

[jkjsooner]

I personally find it ironic that at the same time we're trying to restrict tobacco smokers and users with increasing stringent laws and taxes, we're not doing the same for marijuana. Smoking is smoking. Why are some smokers getting red carpet treatment and others getting told to quit or pay higher insurance?

I don't see it as ironic at all. Considering that tobacco is about a 3 or 4 on the regulation scale and weed has been a 9 or 10, it's not really surprising that the regulation of these two are moving in opposite directions considering the starting point was at the extreme ends of the scale.

As for red carpet treatment, I don't think that's a fair statement at all. There is only one state where you can buy weed legally (fed laws notwithstanding) and the distribution is tightly controlled. You can buy tobacco at any 7-11. In many places you can't smoke tobacco in indoor public spaces. You can't smoke weed in any public space at all - indoor or outdoor.

I think the insurance question will be brought up at some point if the insurance companies see weed as being significantly harmful to one's health. I actually don't know the risks of lung cancer with weed smokers but I'd guess it's much lower than tobacco smokers considering you inhale a tiny fraction of weed smoke compared to tobacco smoke/

[badger]

OK jk, i didn't intend for you to take "red carpet" literally :)

What I find amazing, ironic or whatever is that if you already have the lid shut on something similar, why are you giving some ground instead of working to keep things under control? The tobacco fight has been long, hard and costly for governments to get to the point they're at now, with bans in public places, restrictions in private establishments, tax laws, industry health settlements, you name it.

[BoulderSooner79]

OK jk, i didn't intend for you to take "red carpet" literally :)

What I find amazing, ironic or whatever is that if you already have the lid shut on something similar, why are you giving some ground instead of working to keep things under control? The tobacco fight has been long, hard and costly for governments to get to the point they're at now, with bans in public places, restrictions in private establishments, tax laws, industry health settlements, you name it.

I see it as a combination of democracy and pragmatism. People voted to legalize pot and that should really mean something unless it's deemed unconstitutional. The pragmatism comes from acknowledging that the enforcement has been extremely expensive and ineffective by most measures. The 2 reason are not independent, as many voters admit it's the cost that swung their vote.

I'm happy the feds are keeping their distance as I see this as a basic state's rights issue. I'm not so happy it's Colorado doing this experiment since I lived most my adult life there and have some thoughts of returning to retire there someday, but that's a personal problem. I suspect Colorado will unearth all the problems of legal pot, but become so dependent on the tax revenue there will be no going back. I don't think a majority of states will follow CO and WA; it will be more like legal gambling with just a few states, IMO.

[Jacie]

Only two state have a complete ban on gambling.

Legal pot won't be as widespread but if the money is there, leave it to cash-starved state governments to go after it.

[hawaii 5-0]

Ah, I fondly remember seeing pot growing in the flower beds on the South Oval.


5-0

[jkjsooner]

The tobacco fight has been long, hard and costly for governments to get to the point they're at now, with bans in public places, restrictions in private establishments, tax laws, industry health settlements, you name it.

The bans in public places and private establishments have been enacted for the benefit of the non-smoker. We haven't become more strict on tobacco use except in the cases where the use harms others (and I mean "harm" to mean more than just health effects).

The legalization of marijuana is about personal freedom. In the cases listed above where marijuana smoke may impact someone else, the same ban exists as it does for tobacco.

If we changed the laws so as to restrict the use of tobacco when it isn't harming another person, then you could argue that we're moving in opposite directions. Comparing a relaxation of a general ban on something to a ban on the use of something in a manner that impacts others is comparing apples to oranges.

MJ is taxed heavily in Colorado and I expect it will be anywhere else it is enabled. Other than a general revenue source, it is used to discourage the use so I see this absolutely in line with taxes on tobacco.

As for the industry settlements, the tobacco industry didn't lose out just because they produced a dangerous product. They lost because they used deceptive marketing practices, refused to admit the danger of their product, and actually hid evidence that their product was dangerous. Had they not spent decades trying to deceive the public they would not have lost their lawsuits. If the marijuana industry uses the same tactics then I think we'll have similar lawsuits in a few decades.

[jkjsooner]

Ah, I fondly remember seeing pot growing in the flower beds on the South Oval.


5-0

seriously?

[badger]

seriously?

gotta drop the seeds somewhere, i guess. can't smoke em can you

[hawaii 5-0]

seriously?


Of course.

In the early 70's I knew a guy since my freshman year in the dorms. Very laid back. When he was a junior he got a job on campus doing janitor work in the classrooms. He worked with a bunch of other older guys, mostly philosophy, history and sociology majors in their late 20's who couldn't/didn't want to find 'real' work. Thru them he was introduced to the goundskeepers who planted the flower beds on campus as well as other landscaping work.

One evening he took me out on the Oval to do a doobie. Afterwards he said, "Watch this." We got on hands and knees, eye level with the tops of the growing flowerbeds. You could see what looked like weeds sticking up here and there just above the flowers. On closer inspection it was pot seedings, interspaced amongst the regular plants.

5-0

[KantoSooner]

The railroad right of way behind The Mont used to be a reliable source of 'ditch weed'.

[ouwasp]

Only two state have a complete ban on gambling.

Legal pot won't be as widespread but if the money is there, leave it to cash-starved state governments to go after it.

Yes, Jacie, this is something worth watching. CA and Detroit must be watching the CO experiment with desperate interest. For that matter, as conservative as OK is, the voters have approved several measures over the yrs with the promise of solving all sorts of fiscal problems. The sorts of measures that cause heartburn amongst the Bible Belt sort of citizen; horse racing, liquor-by-the-drink, the lottery, and probably others that aren't coming to mind. (of course, they didn't pay off as it was presented, imo)

That said, I can't see cannabis ever being legal in OK. But who woulda thought OK would be sprouting casinos like a version of East Nevada? Can the Native American big-wigs have a pow-wow on how to bring Happy Grass to Oklahoma? Hey, that sounds like a good brand name: Red Earth Happy Grass. How do I TM that?

[KantoSooner]

This idea was discussed by several tribes back in the 1980's. No way to do it unless/until the Feds legalize it. Tribal land is immune from state laws on a whole raft of issues...but is subject to federal law. In fact, if you smoked on a res in Colorado, the Colorado law would not protect you. You're technically not 'in' Colorado when you're on a res there.

[yankee]

Ah, I fondly remember seeing pot growing in the flower beds on the South Oval.


5-0

Surely before the days of Molly Shi.

[mojorisen2014]

$400 an ounce...
Should last you a week or so if you smoke everyday and its still cheaper here.

Are they letting people grow their own? That should drive the price down quite a bit.a ounce should last way longer than a week if it is the good stuff.

[mojorisen2014]

holy crap...who can afford that? I agree with JK, I think you'll see more of a black market pop up. Yes, I doubt anyone who actually moved to Co just for the weed is in a financial place to NOT be on the handout.

I have never smoked pot so I really don't know much about it but could a person go buy the stuff legally for the higher price then just keep filling the bag with the cheap stuff and use the legal receipt or whatever they use to show legal purchase? no you can tell the difference between cheap and expensive weed

[KantoSooner]

There'll be a tremendous upswing of people who grow at home. Take a small closet, line the walls with white plastic. Mount a high intensity grow light on the ceiling and get some good seed. Voila, you're off to the races. It's a ridiculously easy plant to grow (it's like a weed, you have to try to kill it), very forgiving to amateur gardeners. And one/two plants can supply you with enough to stay stoned pretty much daily within 2-3 months. (and, within 4-6 months, you'll be 'sharing' with a sizeable circle of friends if you so choose.)
The plants can grow to ten feet in height or more and will 'bush out' to four feet or so in diameter and so far as I could gather, if the winter cold doesn't kill them, they grow on endlessly.
Dry the buds as you would sage or rosemary and you will never need to go pay some dispensary $400/oz.

[mojorisen2014]

:twinkies::twinkies::twinkies:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Pot is the debil and it needs to be eradicated... ;)

Seriously, I don't see this ending well. There is no current test outside of an expensive blood draw to definitively test for consumption and there is no real scale (to my knowledge) to compare impairment to blood THC levels. Cops will arrest and courts/lawyers will have case for dismissal. Wait for all the impaired driving deaths, and killed/maimed skiers on the slopes...

[KantoSooner]

THA, you have a point on driving impairment. Mind you, returning to this country and seeing parking lots in front of bars was a bit of a laugh; but that's not to make light.
On skiing/boarding whilst high, under what rock have you been hiding for the past 40 years or so? When I last boarded (about ten years ago), that subset were ALL stoned, virtually all the time. Among skiers, it was prevalent, but not overwhelming. That aroma you caught on the lift had not wafted North from Jamaica. Frame of my reference: Summit County, CO. Breck, Aspen, Vail. Steamboat if I wanted to drive. Leadville was a bit more 'cokey' and rich if you get my drift. But better skiers.
Thus, if getting stoned on a ski slope was going to kill you....you'd have been dead many decades ago.
The three things that get people injured skiing and boarding are:
1. Lack of respect for terrain/weather/snow conditions.
2. Lack of conditioning.
3. Crappy skill set.

Pot isn't even on the map as a snowy hill risk factor.

[Jacie]

And one/two plants can supply you with enough to stay stoned pretty much daily within 2-3 months. (and, within 4-6 months, you'll be 'sharing' with a sizeable circle of friends if you so choose.)
The plants can grow to ten feet in height or more and will 'bush out' to four feet or so in diameter and so far as I could gather, if the winter cold doesn't kill them, they grow on endlessly.

What can be harvested early probably won't be very potent.

A mature plant will yield about 1 or 2 pounds of product.

As they have a life cycle, they mature, mate, go to seed, they do die so no perpetual pot machines, at least not in my experience. Savvy growers will destroy the male plants (yes, they are gender specific) before they can pollinate the females to increase the potency (the horny bitches go into overdrive making THC).

[KantoSooner]

I bow to someone who obviously knows more about it than my poor experimentation yielded. Still, one to two pounds should keep all but the most intrepid happily involved.

[ouwasp]

Say a person with a green thumb has an abundance of Mary Jane... would it be legal in CO for that person to simply give the excess to a neighbor, much like my wife sends cookies across the street on occasion?

[Jacie]

And this just in from the Victim of Their Own Success Department:

Colorado’s Pot Shops Say They’ll Be Sold Out Any Day Now

By Brad Tuttle @bradrtuttleJan. 04, 2014

A few days into the experiment, the new world of legal-recreational-marijuana sales in Colorado appears to be a big success — so much so that pot shops are finding it impossible to keep up with demand.

According to the Denver Post, at least 37 stores in Colorado were licensed to sell recreational pot to anyone 21 or over as of New Year’s Day. The Associated Press and others reported long lines outside Denver pot shops, with some eager customers forced to wait three to five hours before getting a chance to go inside, step up to the counter and make a purchase.

Prices have been steep — in some cases, stores were charging $50 or even $70 for one-eighth of an ounce of pot that cost medical marijuana users just $25 the day before — and taxes add on an extra 20% or so. Even so, sales have been brisk.

The two operational pot shops in Pueblo collectively sold $87,000 of marijuana on Jan. 1, per the Pueblo Chieftain, and store owners say if demand persists anywhere near the current high, they’ll be sold out in the very near future. Likewise, Toni Fox, owner of the 3D Cannabis Center in Denver, told the Colorado Springs Gazette that a sellout is imminent. “We are going to run out,” she said on Thursday, Day 2 of legal-recreational-marijuana sales. “It’s insane. This weekend will be just as crazy. If there is a mad rush, we’ll be out by Monday.”

Another Associated Press story noted that some shops had to close early on Wednesday because they didn’t have enough marijuana on hand to oblige customers.

For more than a month, many have speculated that Colorado pot shops would not be able to meet demand due to the limited number of stores open in the state, as well as tough regulations regarding how marijuana is grown and distributed at the wholesale level. Of course, strong demand — especially from “smoke birds,” a.k.a. out-of-state tourists visiting Colorado for legal marijuana purchases — also plays a big role. By most accounts, since Jan. 1 more than half of pot sales have gone to non-Coloradans.

Prices in legal pot shops have already risen to upwards of $400 an ounce. Once you factor in taxes, as well as the fact that it looks like shops may periodically be sold out for a while, and some are saying the situation is one that could push pot enthusiasts back to buying marijuana on the black market. “People will get real tired of paying the taxes real fast,” one street dealer in Pueblo named Tracy told the Chieftain. “When you can buy an ounce from me for $225 to $300, the state adds as much as $90 just for the tax.”


So getting back to my comment about legal pot being a source of revenue for states, you think surrounding states have not noticed their citizens spending money in Colorado?

The early returns suggest that legal pot is a success.

Will more states jump on the bandwagon?

Try and stop em!

[KantoSooner]

I don't remember the precise rules (largely because I don't live in Colorado, so don't have a dog in the fight), but there are rules covering this. I think there were quantity limits and, of course, consumption has to be on private property with owner's consent (interesting that, since it puts the property owner in the position of expressly jeopardizing their property under Federal confiscation rules).
And you'd open yourself to investigations from tax authorities who'd probably doubt your honesty.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

THA, you have a point on driving impairment. Mind you, returning to this country and seeing parking lots in front of bars was a bit of a laugh; but that's not to make light.
On skiing/boarding whilst high, under what rock have you been hiding for the past 40 years or so? When I last boarded (about ten years ago), that subset were ALL stoned, virtually all the time. Among skiers, it was prevalent, but not overwhelming. That aroma you caught on the lift had not wafted North from Jamaica. Frame of my reference: Summit County, CO. Breck, Aspen, Vail. Steamboat if I wanted to drive. Leadville was a bit more 'cokey' and rich if you get my drift. But better skiers.
Thus, if getting stoned on a ski slope was going to kill you....you'd have been dead many decades ago.
The three things that get people injured skiing and boarding are:
1. Lack of respect for terrain/weather/snow conditions.
2. Lack of conditioning.
3. Crappy skill set.

Pot isn't even on the map as a snowy hill risk factor.

I don't ski. So it is more apre' ski?

Now they want TSA and DIA athorities to not confiscate their pot. They want to be able to board planes with their stash. If I were in a non-approval state where it was illegal, I would be setting up checkpoints at the jet way and doing personal agronomic searches, like in the old days at the Mississippi river bridges...

[badger]

Now they want TSA and DIA athorities to not confiscate their pot. They want to be able to board planes with their stash. If I were in a non-approval state where it was illegal, I would be setting up checkpoints at the jet way and doing personal agronomic searches, like in the old days at the Mississippi river bridges...

Oh goodie, we can go through customs when crossing state borders thanks to the dopeheads. :(:(:(

[KantoSooner]

Or not. Seems like TSA etc have come up with a quite logical solution: they aren't going to look for it, but you're subject to a $999 fine if caught on the airport premises during other searches. Including parking lots: no toking up before flying, though I suspect the number of adults who will suddenly develop a lollypop habit will skyrocket.

I've wondered what states like Oklahoma with a particularly stupid AG will do. Checkpoints on all roads leading from CO? That would be about his speed. (Inside Scott's brain....."Hmmm, lets see, legal pot costs $400/oz in CO, and $250 illegally on the street in OK...I bet those tricky potheads are going to drive to CO, buy their devil weed there and then drive back here (where it's illegal the instant they cross the state line). But WE'LL be ahead of those stupid dopers, we'll set up checkpoints fer 'em. Whoo Hoo! I'll be a hero." (I'm thinking Cartman's voice for that internal monolougue.) Meantime, Okie pot smokers will continue to have their dope delivered to them following a text message to their 'good friend' and not expose themselves to any traffic related risks.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

... doing personal agronomic searches, like in the old days at the Mississippi river bridges...


Anyone remember these back in the 1960s and 1970s? The back up on the Vicksburg bridge would be bad at times.

[KantoSooner]

Nope, don't remember them.
Do remember the stewardesses half-heartedly poofing bug spray around the cabin prior to descent into Honolulu years ago, though.
I suspect it'll be more of a whimper than a bang type deal, though. Over 20 states and federal jurisdictions have legalized medical pot (which is odd considering that it is defined by Federal Law as having 'No' medical utility - part of the justification for keeping it in the same category as PCP, Bath Salts, etc.) and more will have such laws up for a vote next election cycle with at least a few fated to approve it. Then we've got Cali, Oregon, Alaska and New Mexico who look likely to have recreational referenda up for votes.
In the aftermath of Colorado and Washington not sliding into giant holes in the ground, never to be seen again, it's probable that one or more of those states will pass recreational pot. My guess would be that Oregon, Cali and AK would go. Maybe New Mexico, as well.
Now that the first states have jumped into the water, it's only a matter of time before it's legal coast to coast, whatever the Feds say or do.

[Jacie]

Story on CNN this morning about a tour operator offering a trip to Colorado billed as the Canna-bus.

We're not even two weeks into the Mile High State Experiment and pro lobbyists are already working on referendums for four more states to legalize.

The fun is just beginning.

[KantoSooner]

It's kind of dumb to prohibit adults from doing things that really only hurt themselves (with even that being somewhat arguable). Even worse to attempt to prohibit that something and then fail at prohibition with massive expenditure. And then yet worse to throw good money after bad by locking people up for it after the fact.

I'm not sure, from a sociologist's point of view, where the tipping point is with a given law. But once you have a large percentage of your population who simply believes a law is useless or wrong, it's pointless to try to enforce it. The US long ago passed that point in terms of pot prohibition.

There will be hold out states who try to convince their own people that said people don't know what's good for them...and that the legislature does. (typically the arguments are 'for the children' or 'to protect the country' and they're as false and bootless in this instance as in all the others in which they are invoked). But the die's been cast. In addtion to more states here, Canada is reviewing its policies as are 5-6 central and South American countries. Somewhere pivotal in Europe will follow. I'd think Italy,and then the rest will follow.

[BoulderSooner79]

Oh goodie, we can go through customs when crossing state borders thanks to the dopeheads. :(:(:(

More like thanks to the control freaks on the other side.

[BigTip]

The first Colorado newspaper headline that reads, "State earns $120 million from pot sales tax" it will be all over for the rest of the country.
It's so logical too. Instead of spending $350 million to incarcerate pot offenders, they make $150 million off of taxing it. That's 1/2 a billion dollars difference in a state's budget. (or whatever, you get the point) That will make any state government take notice. Just like the gambling thing spread. Money makes "the good folks" compromise their morality.

I don't smoke, but from my Libertarian leaning ideals, I support it. Also from the economics of it.

[olevetonahill]

It will continue to spread to other states, I just dont see it EVER becoming Legal here.

[Jacie]

They said the same thing about liquor-by-the-drink.

[olevetonahill]

They said the same thing about liquor-by-the-drink.

No **** Sherlock. Tell me again How many of the 77 counties we have that you can Legally buy a mixed drink in with out those stupid assed Private Club rules?

[8timechamps]

I'm curious what you guys think about the future of legalized pot. Will the the pendulum swing back at some point? Will there be a push-back from the voters or federal government (especially under a different administration)?

Here's something that I think Colorado should be concerned with. The legal pot will ultimately make its way to the black market in other states. (That's especially true if pot becomes very cheap in Colorado which I predict will happen since it is a very easily produced commodity.) Once this happens the federal government may be forced to change their hands-off policy toward Colorado.

The only way I think that this won't happen is if surrounding states change their policy on marijuana but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


Note: I don't intend for this to be a pro/anti pot thread. Just curious what you think will happen in the future.

I'm sorry jk, but you can't be serious.

Pot is already in every state/city/town in the country. The legalization of marijuana in Colorado will have no affect on that. If anything, retail dispeneries are having trouble finding suppliers.

There is so much being made of this issue, and as a resident of Colorado I can attest to the following:

1. So far, there has been ZERO noticeable difference in everyday life.
2. My children are no more inclined to use now than they were prior to the law being passed.
3. It's still illegal to smoke in public, so there isn't stoners walking down the street, lighting up (no more than before anyway).
4. There isn't suddenly an influx of fast food employees stoned at work (believe it, or not, I've seen that issue raised).

Right now, given the supply/demand, and limited regulation, the price per ounce is far more than the average pot head is willing to pay, so in most cases, I suspect they are still getting their product from the same, illegal providers. The people that are buying at the legal locations are paying more every day, as the cost skyrockets.

I know this isn't a pro/anti pot thread, but what I'm hearing from people out of state (the concerns) are almost comical to those of us living here. I imagine this is very much like the days that followed prohibition. Only people are much more informed now. It's illegal to use in public, it's illegal to purchase if you're under 21, and most every employer still has policies in place that prevent employees from showing up under the influence (same as alcohol).

The Fed has far bigger fish to fry, and the pot issue isn't near the top (nor will it ever be).

[olevetonahill]

End of discusion on the Booze part of this. Pot will never be Legalized in Oklahoma In MY lifetime

Heres a Map of the "Wet" Counties.

http://www.ok.gov/able/images/Districts.JPG

[KantoSooner]

So, Vet, by that map the 'only' wet counties in OK are those that have discernable populations?

[olevetonahill]

So, Vet, by that map the 'only' wet counties in OK are those that have discernable populations?

Every county is Kinda damp. But ya cant buy a Mixed drink in those marked dry.
And Yea It seems that way

[KantoSooner]

How long do you reckon before the Federal Gov decides it wants to share in pot taxation? (More than it already is since CO growers and sellers are in the ridiculous position of having to pay income tax on what is, by Federal law, a criminal enterprise.)

[TAFBSooner]

So, Vet, by that map the 'only' wet counties in OK are those that have discernable populations?

I think that applies to the dry counties in the western half of the state. That big cluster in the southeast more likely just don't want to harm their most significant economic driver. Much like Humboldt County in California is very much against the legalization of pot.

[KantoSooner]

You're probably right. It is fun to realize that the Federal government's largest ally in the 'war on drugs' are Mexican drug cartels. Who'd've thought that the end goal of our prohibition was to enrich foreign mafias?

[TAFBSooner]

You're probably right. It is fun to realize that the Federal government's largest ally in the 'war on drugs' are Mexican drug cartels. Who'd've thought that the end goal of our prohibition was to enrich foreign mafias?

Did you mean the end result?

The nefarious goals of the War on Drugs are to enrich the legal drug industries (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Big Pharma), the for-profit prison industry, and the legal profession. The continued profitability of Mexican drug gangs, and their 60,000 dead victims, are probably just undesireable by-products.

[KantoSooner]

I was being (a bit) sardonic.

Frankly, I don't think any of the consequences of the WOD was ever thought through. You had a ground swell of church lady types who have never seen a 'sin' they don't want to ban with the full police power of the state on the one hand and, on the other, brain dead pols who simply wanted to be seen as being 'responsive'.

Don't forget: oral sex was a felony until around 1980. Mind you, the concept of that in the 19th century, for instance, with its once weekly bathing, is fairly nauseating, but the point remains that the Rick Santorum people don't really think through their legislation, the fact that it prohibits fellow citizens from doing things those fellow citizens enjoy doing is enough to justify the law.

[TAFBSooner]

I was being (a bit) sardonic.

Frankly, I don't think any of the consequences of the WOD was ever thought through. You had a ground swell of church lady types who have never seen a 'sin' they don't want to ban with the full police power of the state on the one hand and, on the other, brain dead pols who simply wanted to be seen as being 'responsive'.

Don't forget: oral sex was a felony until around 1980. Mind you, the concept of that in the 19th century, for instance, with its once weekly bathing, is fairly nauseating, but the point remains that the Rick Santorum people don't really think through their legislation, the fact that it prohibits fellow citizens from doing things those fellow citizens enjoy doing is enough to justify the law.

Once we had the example of alcohol Prohibition, and Repeal, there was much less excuse not to think through the consequences of later forms of prohibition.

Even if those beneficiaries weren't involved in initiating the WoD, they are sure involved in perpetuating it.

[KantoSooner]

The more money is involved, the more motive to protect your share.

[jkjsooner]

I'm sorry jk, but you can't be serious.

Pot is already in every state/city/town in the country. The legalization of marijuana in Colorado will have no affect on that. If anything, retail dispeneries are having trouble finding suppliers.

It doesn't matter whether legalized marijuana has any real affect on the availability of pot in other states. What matters is whether the attorney generals of other states successfully make the claim to the feds that it has the affect.

[KantoSooner]

Since it's pretty well established that the entire 'anti' position has been a pack of lies for over a century, one would hope that the next DA who makes that claim is forced to back up what he claims with facts. Because there won't be any.

Who'd travel to CO to buy legal pot at $400/oz, then turn it into illegal pot by bringing it into a 'dry' state....when you can buy illegal pot at $250/oz without leaveing the comfort of your living room? Stoners are sleepy and have really weird snacking habits, they aren't brain dead.

[jkjsooner]

Since it's pretty well established that the entire 'anti' position has been a pack of lies for over a century, one would hope that the next DA who makes that claim is forced to back up what he claims with facts. Because there won't be any.

They won't use statistics. Instead they'll use individual cases where a person took drugs from Colorado to another state and was arrested in that state and that will be enough for some. Even if dealers don't do it, there will be cases where users will do this - especially among casual users who would not otherwise deal with illegal dealers.


Who'd travel to CO to buy legal pot at $400/oz, then turn it into illegal pot by bringing it into a 'dry' state....when you can buy illegal pot at $250/oz without leaveing the comfort of your living room? Stoners are sleepy and have really weird snacking habits, they aren't brain dead.

I have my doubts if this will be the case for long. I imagine the cost of legal pot in Colorado will go down significantly once supply chains adjust. After all, once it becomes legal to do so, pot is an easily producible commodity.

[KantoSooner]

I suppose you're probably right as to the tactics that will be used. It would be helpful to ask where these 'casual users' get their pot now, if not from dealers, however.

It would be nice if the price came down substantially, however, you're still going to face heavy tax loads that should keep the legal significantly above the illegal in price (kind of like informal whisky). And then sooner or later, the FedGov will take at look at the proceeds and want to get their tax revenue...

It's interesting to reflect that booze taxes essentially floated the entire FedGov prior to prohibition.

[olevetonahill]

I suppose you're probably right as to the tactics that will be used. It would be helpful to ask where these 'casual users' get their pot now, if not from dealers, however.

It would be nice if the price came down substantially, however, you're still going to face heavy tax loads that should keep the legal significantly above the illegal in price (kind of like informal whisky). And then sooner or later, the FedGov will take at look at the proceeds and want to get their tax revenue...

It's interesting to reflect that booze taxes essentially floated the entire FedGov prior to prohibition.

Kan Yer all screwed up on yer pricing. Last summer I know for a Fact that some Bitchin Weed sold for 140 OZ

The Back woods Whiskey actually sells a bit Higher than the City bought stuff.

[KantoSooner]

Good to know on pricing. I guess that pretty much proves my innocence! So the 'legal' price is going to have to fall something like 60% before it starts to get to par with illegal. Long drop. Kind of doubt it makes it.

I do know that federal alcohol taxes (on drinkable booze, not industrial) are a flat sum per gallon and on cheaper liquor are upwards of 80% of the retail price.

[jkjsooner]

I suppose you're probably right as to the tactics that will be used. It would be helpful to ask where these 'casual users' get their pot now, if not from dealers, however.


There are a lot of people who only use it on occasion and only if a friend happens to provide it to them. Those same people might be tempted to buy some while on a ski trip to Colorado since it's hassle free.

[KantoSooner]

I can buy that, but do remember that the joy went out of carrying a joint with you when millimeter band radar became the standard body search in airports. That crap can pick up paper or pocket contents.

Wouldn't want that to come as a nasty surprise or anything.

[8timechamps]

It doesn't matter whether legalized marijuana has any real affect on the availability of pot in other states. What matters is whether the attorney generals of other states successfully make the claim to the feds that it has the affect.

I don't believe any state will (or has) extra resources to devote to that. It's hard enough for most states to enforce the law on the books, let alone spend the time/effort to get the fed involved (which would still have zero net affect on Colorado).

The fed backed off because it's a worthless endeavor. Think about it; if the feds decided to pursue enforcing federal marijuana policy in the states where it's legal, who is going to do the ground work for them? Not the states. It's a lose/lose for the feds, which is why they will spend no time fighting it.

[8timechamps]

They won't use statistics. Instead they'll use individual cases where a person took drugs from Colorado to another state and was arrested in that state and that will be enough for some. Even if dealers don't do it, there will be cases where users will do this - especially among casual users who would not otherwise deal with illegal dealers.



I have my doubts if this will be the case for long. I imagine the cost of legal pot in Colorado will go down significantly once supply chains adjust. After all, once it becomes legal to do so, pot is an easily producible commodity.

You're wrong though, there is no near future downturn in retail pricing in the state. While it's legal to sell/buy, there are still very strict laws that regulate growing. The state knew the prices would skyrocket before the first license was ever sold. They will/and are doing everything in their power to keep it that way.

Kanto is correct, why would a casual (or regular) user spend money to travel to Colorado and purchase pot at 10 times the cost they could by it locally? They wouldn't. As for deciding to buy it on a ski trip, well, if they want to spend $400/oz, plus the additional cost of traveling to/from a dispensary (which are not in the major ski basins), then that's the legal right. What's the big deal there? We're talking about an ounce.

Marijuana has been legal in Colorado for years. The only difference is that you had to have a "patient card" (which was very, very easily attainable). You used to be able to purchase more, at lower costs, as long as you jumped through the hoops. In all the years of legalized pot (for medicinal purposes), not once has interstate distribution been a major issue. The reason is simple, (to revert to my original point) Pot is already all over this country. The people that want to use it, use it. Even when it was much cheaper, folks weren't coming to Colorado (or California, or Washington) in droves to purchase, because it was easier for them to obtain it close to their home. Nothing has changed.

[olevetonahill]

Good to know on pricing. I guess that pretty much proves my innocence! So the 'legal' price is going to have to fall something like 60% before it starts to get to par with illegal. Long drop. Kind of doubt it makes it.

I do know that federal alcohol taxes (on drinkable booze, not industrial) are a flat sum per gallon and on cheaper liquor are upwards of 80% of the retail price.

Yea Im an Innocent also. I just know some nefarious people. :very_drunk:

[jkjsooner]

You're wrong though, there is no near future downturn in retail pricing in the state. While it's legal to sell/buy, there are still very strict laws that regulate growing. The state knew the prices would skyrocket before the first license was ever sold. They will/and are doing everything in their power to keep it that way.


That's a good play on their part. If they can keep the price up that should reduce the threat that other states will put pressure on the Feds.

As for it always being legal, I don't think out of state visitors could get a medical marijuana license so it is a big change for that group.

[KantoSooner]

Hey, 8X, are any of the nicer steak houses in Denver thinking of putting in smoking decks or something of the like? I can see retiring to the deck pre-dinner, waving to the maitre d' and having him bring a Waterford waterpipe to you, then moving on to a nice bottle of cabernet, a bone-in ribeye, a couple of armagnacs and thence home for a nightcap in the hot tub. Fairly blissful.

So, any restaurants moving in that direction?

[8timechamps]

That's a good play on their part. If they can keep the price up that should reduce the threat that other states will put pressure on the Feds.

As for it always being legal, I don't think out of state visitors could get a medical marijuana license so it is a big change for that group.

Surprisingly, out-of-state folks could apply for, and receive a patient card (after seeing a local doctor). It cost something like 20 bucks for the 'exam', but within minutes they could be purchasing.

[8timechamps]

Hey, 8X, are any of the nicer steak houses in Denver thinking of putting in smoking decks or something of the like? I can see retiring to the deck pre-dinner, waving to the maitre d' and having him bring a Waterford waterpipe to you, then moving on to a nice bottle of cabernet, a bone-in ribeye, a couple of armagnacs and thence home for a nightcap in the hot tub. Fairly blissful.

So, any restaurants moving in that direction?

No. The "no smoking/using in public" law put an end to that pretty quickly.

Seriosly, you should hear the "concerns" coming up about all of this. Everything from "will my child's teacher be stoned" to "I don't want to smell smoke when I'm watching a movie" complains have come up by the thousands. DPD did a pretty good job of educating the public (well, those that wanted to listed), and basically said "nothing should chacne in your day to day life". Still, Marijuana is such an evil product to so many people, that there has to be some Armageddon like affects coming any day now.

[KantoSooner]

So, we're left with using outdoor smoking decks and hiding the doobage in blunts. Ah, well, it's been done. And I'm sure will be again.

[8timechamps]

So, we're left with using outdoor smoking decks and hiding the doobage in blunts. Ah, well, it's been done. And I'm sure will be again.

LOL, pretty much.

Or, they can smoke in their home. It's been a looooooong time since I partook, but I'm thinking that's about the only place I would want to do it anyway.

[KantoSooner]

pinch hitter. up on a lift. at Breck. many years ago. Brilliant spring sunshine. above tree line most of the day. thought I'd need plastic surgery to repair the sunburn. great skiing though. 225cm downhill racing skis. I think I almost died three or four times.

[TAFBSooner]

Seattle WASHINGTON vs Denver COLORADO.

Does that make the next NFL contest the Legal Bowl?