The Death Penalty

[badger]

What are your thoughts on capital punishment?

I was just thinking about this the other day, as some local alleged murderers pleaded to life in prison without parole. Would anyone accused of murder ever plea to such a harsh punishment if they didn't face the potential of the death penalty?

We didn't have capital punishment back in Wisconsin. When a girl I went to church camp with was found brutally murdered after going missing, her family got involved in campaign ads to oppose a state supreme court justice who was against capital punishment.

As I'm seeing and hearing about more and more plea deals in Oklahoma murder cases involving extremely long sentences, I am wondering if the death penalty is really is as bad and as costly as opponents say it is. Just having that hang over the accused seems to make them want to admit guilt and go to jail for life, rather than have the threat of being placed on death row.

[olevetonahill]

If there is No doubt at all that the person is guilty then Kill em. Ala McVeigh.
If so give em LWOP . they still live and if its found out they were wrongly convicted we can still make a effort at a remedy.

The death penality not only affects the Inmate but also their Family.
Besides it costs so dayum much to do a death penalty deal What with all the Court appointed attorneys, Appeals after appeals
Do away with it.

[8timechamps]

I am pro death penalty, but each case is different, and I think ultimately it should be considered after a lot of input from the victim's families (which I think is the case anyway).

I think (in the states that do authorize capital punishment) a lot of times, the DA's offer options (LWOP) to help the victim's families put closure to their situation.

Another thing that makes it so tough, is that it not only affects the victim's family, but it also affects the inmate's family.

The system is just so slow. Look at James Holmes, who is clearly guilty. The guy may never be put to death.

[KantoSooner]

My personal take:

The DP is long, slow, and costly. (many times what it costs to simply lock someone up).

Still, I have no issue with putting to death a real scumbag.

The problem is that we sentence to death more than a trivial number of innocent people. And probably sentence to death a lot of people who, but for an accident of birth (that left them the wrong color or poor) would otherwise simply go to prison. There are lots of reasons for this, prosecutorial misconduct, bad police work, crappy defense counsel, judges playing to the galleries. Suffice it to say our court system is not perfect. And that's okay most of the time. You can, after all, exonerate an innocent even if the mistake has taken years to correct (see: Texas). You can't do that if they're dead.

Locking some one up for the balance of their life, without parole, is adequate to fill the need of society to protect itself, to provide a good example, and to punish. And in these cases, we're not looking for any rehabilitation.

Get rid of it.

[8timechamps]

My personal take:

The DP is long, slow, and costly. (many times what it costs to simply lock someone up).

Still, I have no issue with putting to death a real scumbag.

The problem is that we sentence to death more than a trivial number of innocent people. And probably sentence to death a lot of people who, but for an accident of birth (that left them the wrong color or poor) would otherwise simply go to prison. There are lots of reasons for this, prosecutorial misconduct, bad police work, crappy defense counsel, judges playing to the galleries. Suffice it to say our court system is not perfect. And that's okay most of the time. You can, after all, exonerate an innocent even if the mistake has taken years to correct (see: Texas). You can't do that if they're dead.

Locking some one up for the balance of their life, without parole, is adequate to fill the need of society to protect itself, to provide a good example, and to punish. And in these cases, we're not looking for any rehabilitation.

Get rid of it.

I agree with your thinking, however, every now and then, someone comes along, like Jodi Arias, and the only just punishment is death. That's why I would be against getting rid of it altogether.

[Jacie]

I think SMU deserved it but after seeing the long term affect it had on that program, I think the NCAA will never levy that punishment again.

[rock on sooner]

Every study I looked at said the costs of a death penalty is upwards of 8 times
the cost of life without parole. There are some crimes that cry out for death but
our judicial system wishes to err on the side of caution (I agree). I think it should
stay on the books to be used for crimes against the vulnerable (no, I don't want to
get into abortion debate)..There are crimes against children and the defenseless
elderly/disabled for which the DP is applicable. With more than a few '60's and
'70's prisoners having DNA overturn their sentences, there is strong arguments
both ways. As an example, had Lanza not killed himself in the Newtown deal, he
would have been a candidate...mental disease or defect notwithstanding...

[KantoSooner]

I agree with your thinking; however, every now and then, someone comes along, like Jodi Arias, and the only just punishment is death. That's why I would be against getting rid of it altogether.

I'm with you on the sentiment. That's why I lose no sleep if some butthole gets shot by a cop doing his job, or a victim or bystander. The problem is that, if we have it, some number of peeps are going to 'slip' through the cracks and get executed by mistake. As I can't honestly imagine a much worse fate than being killed by my own elected authorities under color of law, I"m willing to give up righteous revenge in exchange for eliminating that possibility.

Just me, though. Clearly, I have no problem living in DP states.

[Breadburner]

Takes way to long.....Mandatory death sentence for anyone molesting kids.....

[badger]

The reason I brought this up was because it seems that in some recent cases where DAs would argue for the death penalty, the accused become afraid of dying and plea out quickly for a life-without-parole sentence. In states without the death penalty, that sounds like the maximum sentence. Thus, accused and their lawyers will string out the legal system longer in hopes of a shorter-than-life (or at least parole possibility) sentence. But, with the death penalty, the accused will take life without parole without a fight.

As long as someone brought up football's death penalty, that was, without question, what Penn State faced. That is why they offered to pay millions for child abuse prevention programs, reduced scholarships, bowl bans, etc. They didn't want to lose football completely, so they took a very severe punishment instead.

Thus, I'm starting to not hate the death penalty being on the books. In practice? Perhaps not. The threat of using it? It seems to speed up the worst cases and give victims' families and friends closure faster.

[KantoSooner]

Badger, look into Illinois. A very sizeable percentage of their death row inmates were found to have been railroaded by an out of control DA's office. The DA's were playing to the public's righteous anger over hideous cases. So they found a 'usual suspect' ram rodded the cases through and voila! your man's on death row. Never mind that he didn't do it, never mind that the real perp is walking around laughing, free as a bird.

If it's on the books, it'll be used for its gruesome publicity value by p.r. hungry DA's.

Having the threat available for use in plea bargains is not worth the risk of executing innocent people.

[olevetonahill]

Badger, look into Illinois. A very sizeable percentage of their death row inmates were found to have been railroaded by an out of control DA's office. The DA's were playing to the public's righteous anger over hideous cases. So they found a 'usual suspect' ram rodded the cases through and voila! your man's on death row. Never mind that he didn't do it, never mind that the real perp is walking around laughing, free as a bird.

If it's on the books, it'll be used for its gruesome publicity value by p.r. hungry DA's.

Having the threat available for use in plea bargains is not worth the risk of executing innocent people.

bro I agree, Its time to get rid of it.

[badger]

Man, Illinois just needs to sink into a large sinkhole and never appear again, don't they? Can they do anything right, or are they going to continue to be the worst state in the mighty Midwest?

[olevetonahill]

Man, Illinois just needs to sink into a large sinkhole and never appear again, don't they? Can they do anything right, or are they going to continue to be the worst state in the mighty Midwest?

Sure they can, They gave us Ob.... Oh wait .

[badger]

Sure they can, They gave us Ob.... Oh wait .

I agree, they also gave us Rod Blag...oh wait

(we can do this all day, or we can just spend the time creating the sinkhole to sink Illinois as fast as possible)

[KantoSooner]

Illinois is probably the most corrupt state in the union. (Louisiana gives them a strong run for their money, but I think Illinois takes it at the wire.)
A funny, I forget the name, but there's a steak house in Chicago that has portraits on the entry hall's walls. One wall is labelled "Famous Chicago Politicians", the other is labelled "Famous Chicago Gangsters". Each year, they swap out the labels. The joke is funny, but it's on the people of Chicago who don't seem to give enough of a **** to change anything. New York at least pullled its collective head out of its *** and elected first Giuliani and then Bloomberg (who, hate on him all you want, has been very right on on issues of crime in the streets.)

[badger]

Hate-on-Illinois aside, cool discussion everyone. Shall we move onto Duck Dynasty? :D

[Scott D]

Meh, it'd be more effective if we started using it on politicians who serve more than two terms in politics.