China Lands On The Moon

[FaninAma]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_CHINA_SPACE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-12-14-08-20-17

Meanwhile, the United States has been busy spending trillions on entitlements and promoting dependency on the government in addition to spending trillions on being the world's policeman in regions that hate our guts.

No longer do we care to have the grand vision of a John F. Kennedy. Instead we have a ruling class of politicians concerned with nothing but maintaining their stranglehold on power. This is a corrupt and bankrupt nation.

Happy Holidays.

[Mjcpr]

I think we did this about 50 years ago.

[FaninAma]

I think we did this about 50 years ago.

44 years to be exact. Just think what great aceivements in science and space exploration the country could have made if somebody had the vision of JFK. Instead we have wasted vast amounts of resources to achieve virtually no change in the poverty rates from 40 years ago. We have managed to acheive an ever widening gap in income between the upper 5% and the bottom 70% of wage earners. We also have $17 trillion in admitted debt and $95 trillion in unfunded liabilities that we are passing on to future generations. Congrats to us.

Again, we are an immoral, bankrupt, corrupt country. A nation that isn't corrupt and immoral doesn't do to future generations what we are doing.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Not sure if I'm concerned that we're not exploring the moon anymore, since we're on Mars. However, China will probably colonize the moon and claim it as theirs. Maybe we should have done this first.

[Soonerjeepman]

totally agree...but didn't jfk push the defunding/closer of state mental institutions? hence some major issues...that's what I've heard. Just askin.

[Jacie]

Not sure if I'm concerned that we're not exploring the moon anymore, since we're on Mars. However, China will probably colonize the moon and claim it as theirs. Maybe we should have done this first.

Manned missions, even the near-Earth stuff we do with the ISS is hellishly expensive (the unmanned missions are merely hugely expensive).

If China wants to send someone to the Moon, more power to em.

[REDREX]

NASA is a huge waste of money

[FaninAma]

NASA is a huge waste of money
As compared to the totally useless "war on pverty". And are you saying there has been no benefits to society from the scientific advances that occured as a result of research and engineering used to send exploration missions into space? I think you need to review the huge listof things that we use everyday that were the result of the work of NASA engineers.

[REDREX]

Anything NASA does that has a person on board is a waste of money----as is the war on poverty----NASA did not discover anything that private companies would not have found

[diverdog]

Anything NASA does that has a person on board is a waste of money----as is the war on poverty----NASA did not discover anything that private companies would not have found

Private companies cannot do what Nasa does. They can do somethings but they do not have the heavy lift capabilities of our largest rockets and going to the moon was and remains our biggest technological feet.

[FaninAma]

Manned space missions represents the zenith of human potential. It represents everything noble about our species......intelligence, bravery and the desire to reach unexplored realms.

Meanwhile, the ancient tradition of politicians buying the populace's allegiance with state sponsored "Bread and Circuses" represents the very worst of human nature.

[REDREX]

Private companies cannot do what Nasa does. They can do somethings but they do not have the heavy lift capabilities of our largest rockets and going to the moon was and remains our biggest technological feet.----What did the space shuttle accomplish besides killing two crews?----

[diverdog]

----What did the space shuttle accomplish besides killing two crews?----

A lot. You must not follow this stuff at all. The military did a bunch of stuff up there.

[REDREX]

A lot. You must not follow this stuff at all. The military did a bunch of stuff up there.---Like what that was worth the money and lives-----They can do the same thing without having people on board----The program was a huge waste of money

[8timechamps]

---Like what that was worth the money and lives-----They can do the same thing without having people on board----The program was a huge waste of money

Are you being serious? I can't tell. I hope not.

You use things on a daily basis that are a result of space exploration/the shuttle program. And no, not every one of those things could be done with unmanned vehicles. There's also the idea that every person this country has ever launched into space knew (far better than you or I) the risks.

If you're being serious, you should do yourself a favor and research the topic. Here's a good place to start: LINK (http://www.businessinsider.com/everyday-items-developed-by-nasa-2012-8)

[REDREX]

Are you being serious? I can't tell. I hope not.

You use things on a daily basis that are a result of space exploration/the shuttle program. And no, not every one of those things could be done with unmanned vehicles. There's also the idea that every person this country has ever launched into space knew (far better than you or I) the risks.

If you're being serious, you should do yourself a favor and research the topic. Here's a good place to start: LINK (http://www.businessinsider.com/everyday-items-developed-by-nasa-2012-8)---You must be kidding----I would sure hate to live in a world without Cordless tools, Golf clubs , invisible braces and ski boots----Get real

[KantoSooner]

Miniaturization, materials science, software, automation/robotics, medicine, communications, hell, even the vacuum freeze drying of food all came directly out of NASA and a goodly portion of that would not have resulted from either unmanned missions or private industry.
Combine that with the fact that NASA spending was and is a pittance compared with all the other crap our government spends money on and it was cash well spent.
It would be wrong, as well, to ignore the undefinable sense of unity and mission that is exemplified by manned spaceflight. Landing a rover doesn't do the same thing. Voyager, for all its mind blowing science and stupendous achievement does not compare.
And any one of them is hugely more worthwhile than attempting to force people to have self-respect and to get off their asses and work for a living.

[badger]

We were there first, we own it. :P

If China wants to visit, I don't care. If China wants to colonize it, I don't care. They might as well be colonizing the vast unpopulated dead freezing parts of the north and south poles. We were probably there first and we don't care if anyone else visits/colonizes/etc.

[diverdog]

---Like what that was worth the money and lives-----They can do the same thing without having people on board----The program was a huge waste of money

Rex there are a lot of things robots cannot do. Fixing satelites in space being one of those things. Learning about human physiology is also key to most space travel. As a species it would be a good idea to move beyond earth if we want to survive.

[REDREX]

Rex there are a lot of things robots cannot do. Fixing satelites in space being one of those things. Learning about human physiology is also key to most space travel. As a species it would be a good idea to move beyond earth if we want to survive.----As soon as "Warp Speed" is invented we can start talking about space travel-----NASA has become a huge boondoggle----Know why its in Houston? ----LBJ wanted the jobs in Texas

[KantoSooner]

What is this boondoggle costing us this year? $20 billion? Out of an annual budget of over a trillion?

Tell you what, let's cut the mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, sell off the remaining army issue mule saddles, stop all subsidies for ethanol production, stop paying $1100 for wheelchairs through medicare and...

well, you get the picture. If you want to go all jihad on a government program, NASA should be somewhere on page 947 of your 'cut' list.

[REDREX]

What is this boondoggle costing us this year? $20 billion? Out of an annual budget of over a trillion?

Tell you what, let's cut the mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, sell off the remaining army issue mule saddles, stop all subsidies for ethanol production, stop paying $1100 for wheelchairs through medicare and...

well, you get the picture. If you want to go all jihad on a government program, NASA should be somewhere on page 947 of your 'cut' list.---Lets cut them all

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What is this boondoggle costing us this year? $20 billion? Out of an annual budget of over a trillion?

Tell you what, let's cut the mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, sell off the remaining army issue mule saddles, stop all subsidies for ethanol production, stop paying $1100 for wheelchairs through medicare and...

well, you get the picture. If you want to go all jihad on a government program, NASA should be somewhere on page 947 of your 'cut' list.Space Program shouldn't be neglected. Under the category of viable, legal government function.(national defense)

[diverdog]

----As soon as "Warp Speed" is invented we can start talking about space travel-----NASA has become a huge boondoggle----Know why its in Houston? ----LBJ wanted the jobs in Texas

Red:

The private space business is just getting off the ground. I am not even sure any of their equipment other than satellites have made an orbit around the earth let alone any sort of high altitude flights 22,000 miles plus. Could be wrong but I have not read about it. And the missions being flown are heavily funded by the government. I do not see space being viable for decades for commercial enterprises.

[diverdog]

What is this boondoggle costing us this year? $20 billion? Out of an annual budget of over a trillion?

Tell you what, let's cut the mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, sell off the remaining army issue mule saddles, stop all subsidies for ethanol production, stop paying $1100 for wheelchairs through medicare and...

well, you get the picture. If you want to go all jihad on a government program, NASA should be somewhere on page 947 of your 'cut' list.

We are using mules in Afghanistan. Kind of ironic.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

China's entitlement spending is only for the ruling elite.

[KantoSooner]

actually, that's not true. subsidized or free apartments, food, healthcare, transportation etc are the order of the day for the vast majority of Chinese citizens. Is it good food/healthcare/transport/living space, etc? Not especially and many Chinese opt to take care of themselves, but it's there.

China's ruling elite are divided into two main groups: those who are in official jobs and those who have large companies. The first group tend to live in nice circumstances on the public dime. It's not atypical, for instance, for a Brigadier general in the PLA to have a 500 series Benz and driver at his personal disposal. There are summer homes on the Yellow Sea, etc. The company folks are slightly more complex. There are some real entrepreneurs, but a lot of the folks in 'private' business are the sons/daughters of government officials, and many of the companies themselves were spin offs that used to be government enterprises but were sold for cheap to these princes and princesses.

So, the ruling elite gets the cream, certainly, but the working class gets something as well.

[Wishboned]

Not sure if I'm concerned that we're not exploring the moon anymore, since we're on Mars. However, China will probably colonize the moon and claim it as theirs. Maybe we should have done this first.

Their probe is already building a wall that we can see from Earth.

And China landed a probe. Not a manned mission. We have landed at least 4 probes on Mars.

[olevetonahill]

We are using mules in Afghanistan. Kind of ironic.

yea it is Ironic, Mules in Afghan a Jackass in the White house.

[REDREX]

yea it is Ironic, Mules in Afghan a Jackass in the White house. Could be the post of the year

[olevetonahill]

Their probe is already building a wall that we can see from Earth.

And China landed a probe. Not a manned mission. We have landed at least 4 probes on Mars.

Heard that wall had a Chink in it!

[Jacie]

The question no one has asked, how does a dedicated Luddite post all this negative stuff about NASA in the first place?

[KantoSooner]

The question no one has asked, how does a dedicated Luddite post all this negative stuff about NASA in the first place?

I bow to you, sir.

[stoopified]

yea it is Ironic, Mules in Afghan a Jackass in the White house.Heh

[REDREX]

What is this boondoggle costing us this year? $20 billion? Out of an annual budget of over a trillion?

Tell you what, let's cut the mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, sell off the remaining army issue mule saddles, stop all subsidies for ethanol production, stop paying $1100 for wheelchairs through medicare and...

well, you get the picture. If you want to go all jihad on a government program, NASA should be somewhere on page 947 of your 'cut' list.----Total cost of the boondoggle was about $210 Billion and 14 lives---- No way it was worth it

[KantoSooner]

Hmmm, $210 bill and 14 lives over what? 20 years? More? I think the $200 bill figure is about right for Apollo, but wouldn't cover Apollo and Shuttle and ISS and Skylab....but Apollo didn't cost 14 lives, so I'm not sure about your numbers. Right now I think the agency costs around $20 a year.
As to lives, ask the current astronauts if they're willing to accept the risks. So far as I know, not one astronaut has been chivvied into the launch vehicle at the point of a gun.

Activities without risk are typically worth approximately nothing.

[REDREX]

Hmmm, $210 bill and 14 lives over what? 20 years? More? I think the $200 bill figure is about right for Apollo, but wouldn't cover Apollo and Shuttle and ISS and Skylab....but Apollo didn't cost 14 lives, so I'm not sure about your numbers. Right now I think the agency costs around $20 a year.
As to lives, ask the current astronauts if they're willing to accept the risks. So far as I know, not one astronaut has been chivvied into the launch vehicle at the point of a gun.

Activities without risk are typically worth approximately nothing.---Nope the numbers are correct and the results achieved were nowhere near the original plans------typical Gov't boondoggle

[KantoSooner]

Uh...? Apollo cost 14 lives? Are we counting Craig James hookers in there,or what? And what about '...land a man on the moon and return him safely to the earth" didn't we acheive?

You're either lumping the entire history of manned space flight together, in which case your $ figures need some explanation (I think the number would be higher) or you're grossly overstating the death toll of Apollo. (as well as ignoring that it hit it's mission goal and did so on time.)

A compelling argument could be made that the space program has been and continues to be the best thing our government has ever done...and the argument could be made from a very cold eyed cost/benefit analysis. Further, I think you don't get the space program without the 'manned' aspect and that the manned aspect is likewise a big monetary winner for the country. On a par with the transcontinental railways, rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the internet, etc.

[REDREX]

No the Space Shuttle----I said nothing about Apollo----I think that was only 3

[KantoSooner]

Okay, those numbers on both make sense to me. We still disagree on justification, but the numbers track with my understanding.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

NASA is a huge waste of money

You are oh so WRONG!

[REDREX]

You are oh so WRONG!---Keep drinking that Kool Aid that NASA has been serving up for 50 years

[KantoSooner]

Red, there might have been a time when corps invested in basic research (I know the Phillips R&D center here in Bville used to do some amazing stuff), they simply don't anymore. It's not going to impact the quarterly earnings report? The eff it. Business land is run by extremely short sighted, essentiallly very narrow people who would not be fit to shine the shoes of those of 50-75 years ago.
So, if NASA doesn't do this, it ain't getting done.

We can continue to support NASA, DARPA, Lawrence Livermore, etc, or we can do without improving tech. It's about that simple.

[REDREX]

Red, there might have been a time when corps invested in basic research (I know the Phillips R&D center here in Bville used to do some amazing stuff), they simply don't anymore. It's not going to impact the quarterly earnings report? The eff it. Business land is run by extremely short sighted, essentiallly very narrow people who would not be fit to shine the shoes of those of 50-75 years ago.
So, if NASA doesn't do this, it ain't getting done.

We can continue to support NASA, DARPA, Lawrence Livermore, etc, or we can do without improving tech. It's about that simple.---I remember when the R&D center had one building---They put it West of town in case it blew up ---as it did a few times

[KantoSooner]

It's got a lot more than that now, most, sadly empty. The place where polypropylene, for instance, was INVENTED, for God's sake. Empty and unused.
To anyone with any love of the human mind, it's a travesty.

[8timechamps]

---You must be kidding----I would sure hate to live in a world without Cordless tools, Golf clubs , invisible braces and ski boots----Get real

Like I said, you should do some research.

There have been many medical advancements thanks to the space program/shuttle efforts. But, you probably don't use fancy medicine --- get real.

[Turd_Ferguson]

---Keep drinking that Kool Aid that NASA has been serving up for 50 years

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/tang2.jpg

[REDREX]

Like I said, you should do some research.

There have been many medical advancements thanks to the space program/shuttle efforts. But, you probably don't use fancy medicine --- get real.---Like what?----Why do you have to orbit the earth for 30 years to have medical advances?----Show me the great advances we got for $210B and 17 lives

[KantoSooner]

---Like what?----Why do you have to orbit the earth for 30 years to have medical advances?----Show me the great advances we got for $210B and 17 lives

radiation sterilization and radiation sterilization capable syringes. Dissolvable stitches. Anti-bedsore ventilated cushions. Three that come to mind.

[KantoSooner]

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/tang2.jpg

And no way would the Plant City, Florida, factory that was built to make it (and which is still in operation today making all sorts of vacuum freeze dried goodies) have been built without the human space program. 120 foot venturi vacuum pumps, 50 ft long X 9 ft diameter vacuum chambers and 110 ft, seamless, stainless steel conveyor belts are not built 'on spec'.

[REDREX]

radiation sterilization and radiation sterilization capable syringes. Dissolvable stitches. Anti-bedsore ventilated cushions. Three that come to mind.---So Why do you have to orbit the earth to develop these ?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Red, why are you against technology and improvement? Everything you have around you today, from the computer or iphone you post from to anything that uses a microprocessor is becuase of the space program. Everything! We had a great Engineering and technology revolution because of NASA and other Space related research. What we need is more human exploration to further develop new technologies, or we will stagnate on this rock and perish. Our destiny is to push humans elsewhere in space or perish.

[KantoSooner]

---So Why do you have to orbit the earth to develop these ?

They were found to be necessary for human space flight. It's unclear whether or when they would have been something that would have been developed without that driver.

[KantoSooner]

Red, please let us know why the space program has gotten up your nose so far. If you're simply concerned with government waste, my lord, there're literally thousands of programs that waste more egregiously than NASA. Can you not content yourself to start with those and see how things go?
If you are concerned with the safety record, doesn't the voluntary nature of the projects calm your nerves?
Are you unmoved by the imperative of exploration?

[Jacie]

That's it. Everyone pack your things, we are all moving to our ancestral homes, including everyone of Native American descent. You guys have to go cross a land bridge to Asia and everyone else will sail back to Europe, Africa, wherever.

[KantoSooner]

I second this, but you don't take it far enough. I say everyone has to go back to Africa and then climb back up into the handiest womb they can find.

[KantoSooner]

Absolutely no idea what your point was there, Jacie, but I'm all over the concept.

[olevetonahill]

Red, please let us know why the space program has gotten up your nose so far. If you're simply concerned with government waste, my lord, there're literally thousands of programs that waste more egregiously than NASA. Can you not content yourself to start with those and see how things go?
If you are concerned with the safety record, doesn't the voluntary nature of the projects calm your nerves?
Are you unmoved by the imperative of exploration?

Ever get the Feeling your Being

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFQY8jKCzwTWIM97f9uod-OVCsIQNJVMDQBRv4s6WwQ4P9Ed7E

[KantoSooner]

Minnkota makes great little motors.

[olevetonahill]

:wink:

[Jacie]

We are shutting down the space program and returning to the dark ages. No more exploring anything cause everyone knows, there be tigers out there.

[8timechamps]

---Like what?----Why do you have to orbit the earth for 30 years to have medical advances?----Show me the great advances we got for $210B and 17 lives

You have no basis in your argument. Regardless of anything brought to your attention, you take the "IT COST US MONEY AND STUFF, and I don't see anything fer it!" response.

Were you screwed over by NASA at some point in your life? You may be the only person in the country that is against space exploration.

You keep bringing up the 17 lives, so let me ask you; do you think they realized they could die when they took their assignment? (Of course they did. It's a good thing people don't hide in their basements and do nothing with their lives, don't you think?).

[FaninAma]

I second this, but you don't take it far enough. I say everyone has to go back to Africa and then climb back up into the handiest womb they can find.
Me too. If we could just make those trashy limeys leave us alone.

[REDREX]

You have no basis in your argument. Regardless of anything brought to your attention, you take the "IT COST US MONEY AND STUFF, and I don't see anything fer it!" response.

Were you screwed over by NASA at some point in your life? You may be the only person in the country that is against space exploration.

You keep bringing up the 17 lives, so let me ask you; do you think they realized they could die when they took their assignment? (Of course they did. It's a good thing people don't hide in their basements and do nothing with their lives, don't you think?).---No---But I think you are an idiot if you think the value produced from the space program was worth the cost

[olevetonahill]

^ and there ya have it, Aint ever gonna convince Old Red that he aint got the right tree on this hunt.

[REDREX]

We are shutting down the space program and returning to the dark ages. No more exploring anything cause everyone knows, there be tigers out there.----Why would you believe that only the Gov't can innovate---Private business does much more at a fraction of the cost.

[KantoSooner]

Private business is, in fact, really bad at doing basic research. Largely because there is no profit motive and thus they simply don't engage in it.
The engines of basic research in our country are universities and government labs. It's been this way for the last century and doesn't look set to change in the foreseeable future.
Many companies have tried to capture the genie of basic research innovation. IBM, Hewlett Packard, Dupont, Monsanto, Phillips, Bell Telephone and Corning stand out. They have all ultimately dumped their efforts due to cost and lack of attributable pay back. They now concentrate on license servicing and applications research.

Many times the corporations simply don't know what they have and are so focused on their own world that they can't see it. IBM sat on the fax machine for 30 years. And they aren't really interested in new paradigms. I worked for a VC firm out of San Jose for a brief period. Our concept was to go through IBM files, monetize the IP that we could and share 50:50 with IBM. To the best of my knowledge, even their own archivists have no idea what lies in those miles of files.

So, no, leaving research to private industry is a non-starter.

[BetterSoonerThanLater]

Not sure if I'm concerned that we're not exploring the moon anymore, since we're on Mars. However, China will probably colonize the moon and claim it as theirs. Maybe we should have done this first.

We already have a top secret Moon base where we have been testing the effects of high powered lasers on lab rats in space. the goal is to be able to vaporize a human target on earth from the moon. Buzz Aldrin was actually a CIA spec ops commando that was sent in to address and security risks from potential alien threats in the sea of tranquility. We have been using light reflected from the sun to take out high value targets in Asia since 1975.


Conspiracy theory complete. ;)

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm glad my ancestors decided to get out of the tree branches, walk upright, and explore new realms. If my ancestors thought like redrex, I'd be eating bananas and picking lice off my sibling!

[OU_Sooners75]

I am assuming Redrex wants to do away with the military seeing that it is a government run organization that has cost the lives of many.

[Jacie]

China's imperiled Jade Rabbit moon rover: 'Goodnight, humanity'

By Wilfred Chan, CNN
Mon January 27, 2014

(CNN) -- China's brand new moon rover is already saying farewell.

The diminutive lunar explorer, known as Jade Rabbit, or "Yutu" in Chinese, was about halfway through a three-month mission to study the moon's crust when it suffered a potentially crippling breakdown, said state media.

The report, authored by China's state-run Xinhua news, was written in the voice of the rover itself.

"Although I should've gone to bed this morning, my masters discovered something abnormal with my mechanical control system," said the Xinhua report, in the voice of the Jade Rabbit. "My masters are staying up all night working for a solution. I heard their eyes are looking more like my red rabbit eyes."

"Nevertheless, I'm aware that I might not survive this lunar night," it added.

During a lunar night, which lasts about 14 Earth days, the moon's surface temperature can plunge to minus-180 Celsius. To make it through the cold, the lunar rover must "hibernate" to preserve its delicate electronics.

If a mechanical problem keeps it from hibernating properly, then the Rabbit could freeze to death.

Named after a mythical rabbit who lives on the moon, Yutu was a source of national pride when it launched into space last December along with the lunar lander Chang'e-3, named after the moon goddess who kept Yutu by her side.

The successful lunar landing made China the third country in the world to perform a "soft landing" on the moon's surface.

Earlier, Yutu and Chang'e survived their first lunar night together, from Christmas until the second week of January.

The Chang'e-3 lander successfully entered a second hibernation on Friday and is expected to function normally for another year.

"[Chang'e] doesn't know about my problems yet," said the voice of Yutu in the Xinhua report. "If I can't be fixed, everyone please comfort her."

On social media, thousands of Chinese internet users sent their well-wishes to the little robot.

"You have done a great job, Yutu. You have endured extreme hot and cold temperatures and shown us what we have never seen," wrote one microblogger, as quoted by Xinhua.

Another wrote: "This is too heavy a burden. If the rabbit can not stand again, maybe we should let it have a rest."

Despite the setbacks, even the little Rabbit seemed aware of the odds it had overcome.

"Before departure, I studied the history of mankind's lunar probes. About half of the past 130 explorations ended in success; the rest ended in failure," noted the Jade Rabbit in its report.

"This is space exploration; the danger comes with its beauty. I am but a tiny dot in the vast picture of mankind's adventure in space.

"The sun has fallen, and the temperature is dropping so quickly... to tell you all a secret, I don't feel that sad. I was just in my own adventure story - and like every hero, I encountered a small problem," said the Rabbit.

"Goodnight, Earth," it said. "Goodnight, humanity."

[Turd_Ferguson]

I think we're doing some secret **** up there and Chiner decided to go take a look see...

[olevetonahill]

I think we're doing some secret **** up there and Chiner decided to go take a look see...

Yer Prolly right and Obammy sent a Drone to kill it.