Bambi Meets Godzilla

[KantoSooner]

In a cosmic intellectual mismatch...


Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism'
By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) – Pope Francis: Successor to St. Peter ... the people's pontiff ... Marxist?

That's what conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh suggests, calling the Pope's latest document "pure Marxism."

Limbaugh blasted the pontiff on Wednesday, a day after Francis released "Evangelii Gaudium" (The Joy of the Gospel), a 50,000-word statement that calls for church reform and castigates elements of modern capitalism.

Limbaugh's segment, now online and entitled "It's Sad How Wrong Pope Francis Is (Unless It's a Deliberate Mistranslation By Leftists)," takes direct aim at "Evangelii," which is officially known as an apostolic exhortation. The Vatican issued the English translation.

In "Evangelii," Francis – the first pope ever to hail from Latin America, where he worked on behalf of the poor in his native Argentina – warned that the "idolatry of money" would lead to a "new tyranny."

The Pope also blasted "trickle-down economics," saying the theory "expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power."

“Meanwhile,” Francis said, “the excluded are still waiting.”

READ MORE: Pope Francis: No more business as usual

The Pope's critique of capitalism thrilled many liberal Catholics, who have long called on church leaders to spend more time and energy on protecting the poor from economic inequalities.

But Limbaugh, whose program is estimated to reach 15 million listeners, called the Pope's comments "sad" and "unbelievable."

"It's sad because this pope makes it very clear he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to capitalism and socialism and so forth."

In fact, Argentina was a battlefield between leftist socialists and right-wing security forces during much of Francis' early career in the country, where he was a Jesuit priest and later archbishop of Buenos Aires.

Limbaugh, who is not Catholic, said he admires the faith "profoundly" and "up until this" he admired Pope Francis as well, even if the talk show host thought the pontiff was "going a little bit overboard on the common-man touch."

Limbaugh also said that he has made numerous visits to the Vatican, which "wouldn't exist without tons of money."

"But regardless, what this is, somebody has either written this for him or gotten to him," Limbaugh said. "This is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope."

Limbaugh took particular issue with the Pope's criticism of the "culture of prosperity," which the pontiff called a "mere spectacle" for the many people who can't afford to participate.

"This is almost a statement about who should control financial markets," Limbaugh said. "He says that the global economy needs government control."

"I'm not Catholic, but I know enough to know that this would have been unthinkable for a pope to believe or say just a few years ago," Limbaugh continued.

In fact, Francis' predecessor, Benedict XVI, now pope emeritus, could be just as strong a critic of capitalism.

In 2009, Benedict, in an official church document called an encyclical, said there was an urgent need for "a political, juridical and economic order" that would "manage the global economy."

In "Evangelii," Francis called for more of a spiritual and ethical revolution than a regulatory one.

"I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of one of the sages of antiquity: `Not to share one’s wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs,'" said Francis, quoting the fifth-century St. John Chrysostom.

Limbaugh is not the only conservative commentator to take issue with the Pope's views on capitalism.

READ MORE: Sarah Palin 'taken aback' by Pope Francis's 'liberal' statements

“I go to church to save my soul," said Fox News' Stuart Varney, who is an Episcopalian. "It’s got nothing to do with my vote. Pope Francis has linked the two. He has offered direct criticism of a specific political system. He has characterized negatively that system. I think he wants to influence my politics.”

It doesn't sound like the criticism is slowing Francis down, however.

He's been sending a Vatican contingent, including the Papal Swiss Guards, into Rome to deliver food and charity.

Daniel Burke - CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

[okie52]

Saw the pope's comments on "trickle down" the other day and thought how much of a socialist agenda he must have. Maybe he should go to Venezuela to see how well things are working there.

[Soonerjeepman]

Being born and raised Catholic, and still practicing....I'll hold judgement for now.

My philosophy is that I don't want the gov telling me to help people or control my spending...but I do believe we are called to help others in need. A hand UP not hand OUT.

I wonder if the US rich Catholics, which there are plenty that made a buttload of $ by capitalism, are happy to see this?

Honestly though, most priest have very liberal politics, especially when talking about helping the poor.

[okie52]

I've been an Episcopalean most of my life...probably one of the closest religions to Catholics. The US Episcopalean governing body is pretty liberal...probably moreso than the Catholic Church since we ordain gay ministers/bishops, allow women priests and accept abortion. I tend to ignore much of what comes out of the Episcopalean leadership but wouldn't hesitate to tell a "church leader" to puck off on their political views once they feel it necessary to inject them in a sermon or church policy.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I've been an Episcopalean most of my life...probably one of the closest religions to Catholics. The US Episcopalean governing body is pretty liberal...probably moreso than the Catholic Church since we ordain gay ministers/bishops, allow women priests and accept abortion. I tend to ignore much of what comes out of the Episcopalean leadership but wouldn't hesitate to tell a "church leader" to puck off on their political views once they feel it necessary to inject them in a sermon or church policy.Big difference between voluntary behavior(charity, humanitarian giving, etc.) and forced, oftentimes illegal, behavior by governments. The pope seems to be espousing the latter. Not sure what Kanto is trying to say or accomplish with this thread.

[diverdog]

Me thinks we need to teach men how to fish.

[FaninAma]

As a member of a large Irish-Catholic family I support Limbaugh's statements. The Catholic Church needs to divest itself of all its riches garnered over the past 10 centuries through various capatilistic and non-capitalistic means and lead by example. Until I see some action instead of preaching I think the Pope is being a big hypocrite.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Me thinks we need to teach men how to fish.good for you!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

As a member of a large Irish-Catholic family I support Limbaugh's statements. The Catholic Church needs to divest itself of all its riches garnered over the past 10 centuries through various capatilistic and non-capitalistic means and lead by example. Until I see some action instead of preaching I think the Pope is being a big hypocrite.Xacto

[diverdog]

Big difference between voluntary behavior(charity, humanitarian giving, etc.) and forced, oftentimes illegal, behavior by governments. The pope seems to be espousing the latter. Not sure what Kanto is trying to say or accomplish with this thread.

I am not sure if this is a true statement but I am probably one of a very few on this board that has seen famine and genocide in person. What I learned is no amount of money can solve many of the worlds problems. Sending in food to a famine stricken area seems all well and good until you realize it teaches dependency and the local farmers quit farming. Curing diseases is great until you see we bring even more children into extreme poverty relying on ever decreasing resources.

The issue Limbaugh and the Pope should be talking about is political corruption. That is the true slave master of the impoverished not capitalism.

[KantoSooner]

Oh, Rush, I'm sure you had a pretty good idea of where I was going with this.

First, I find it amusing that Limbaugh, whom I assume would be accepted as a social conservative, is having trouble with the doctrine of the Catholic Church (and, from the Pope, at that, essentially God's voice on Earth if you buy into the religion).

Second, I find it funny that Limbaugh apparently never read or understood the teachings of Jesus Christ which are fairly hard to distinguish from grass roots socialism.

Thirdly, the article made me consider a debate between Pope Francis and Limbaugh on things political (or on anything at all for that matter) and I got the giggles regarding how many nanoseconds the Rushster would last. (thus the 'Godzilla meets Bambi' reference.)

My point was to share a funny for the Monday after Thanksgiving.

[diverdog]

Oh, Rush, I'm sure you had a pretty good idea of where I was going with this.

First, I find it amusing that Limbaugh, whom I assume would be accepted as a social conservative, is having trouble with the doctrine of the Catholic Church (and, from the Pope, at that, essentially God's voice on Earth if you buy into the religion).

Second, I find it funny that Limbaugh apparently never read or understood the teachings of Jesus Christ which are fairly hard to distinguish from grass roots socialism.

Thirdly, the article made me consider a debate between Pope Francis and Limbaugh on things political (or on anything at all for that matter) and I got the giggles regarding how many nanoseconds the Rushster would last. (thus the 'Godzilla meets Bambi' reference.)

My point was to share a funny for the Monday after Thanksgiving.

I really like this Pope and he is doing his job as a Pope. And Rush is being Rush. 300 years ago he might have not been so quick to disparage the pope.

[Soonerjeepman]

but he isn't living in the palace? right? .....
but I agree, there are a ton of Catholic's that don't do what they preach.
it's like my bro's F-I-L...well, maybe ex...dude has a 600K house, one in Naples, Fl as well. Drives Cadillacs, etc..golfs all the time, worked his butt off up through Kroger. BUT, his son, who briefly played ball at ND, had an ongoing affair for yrs, kid with the girl, she stayed with her husband he adopted kid...but the son ended up getting divorced and now it's the ex -wife's fault for everything, the son has taken no responsibility. Just ONE example on how this "great Catholic" is kind of jacked up. It's all about HOW YOU LOOK to the others...

[Soonerjeepman]

The issue Limbaugh and the Pope should be talking about is political corruption. That is the true slave master of the impoverished not capitalism.

amen DD...

[diverdog]

amen DD...

Mind you I am talking more about third world corruption than the stuff we see in the US.

[FaninAma]

Kanto, I think it is silly to try and equate personal, VOLUNTARY, social charity with enforced, non-voluntary socialistic, redistrubutionist government policies. The Pope is treading on thin ice if he doesn't clearly differentiate between the two. In fact, the Pope should be decrying large entitlement programs that trap enormous numbers of people into trans-generational poverty and dependence.

[okie52]

Thirdly, the article made me consider a debate between Pope Francis and Limbaugh on things political (or on anything at all for that matter) and I got the giggles regarding how many nanoseconds the Rushster would last. (thus the 'Godzilla meets Bambi' reference.)



Hell, I thought the pope was bambi and his naivete was just showing through.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Oh, Rush, I'm sure you had a pretty good idea of where I was going with this.

First, I find it amusing that Limbaugh, whom I assume would be accepted as a social conservative, is having trouble with the doctrine of the Catholic Church (and, from the Pope, at that, essentially God's voice on Earth if you buy into the religion).

Second, I find it funny that Limbaugh apparently never read or understood the teachings of Jesus Christ which are fairly hard to distinguish from grass roots socialism.

Thirdly, the article made me consider a debate between Pope Francis and Limbaugh on things political (or on anything at all for that matter) and I got the giggles regarding how many nanoseconds the Rushster would last. (thus the 'Godzilla meets Bambi' reference.)

My point was to share a funny for the Monday after Thanksgiving.that's so screwed up, I'm surprised that someone with as good a command of the English language as you would come up with such nonsense...then again, you DO like you some socialized medicine.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Kanto, I think it is silly to try and equate personal, VOLUNTARY, social charity with enforced, non-voluntary socialistic, redistrubutionist government policies. The Pope is treading on thin ice if he doesn't clearly differentiate between the two. In fact, the Pope should be decrying large entitlement programs that trap enormous numbers of people into trans-generational poverty and dependence.instead, the pope is suggesting it is the job of governments to redistribute wealth. He prolly likes our Dear Leader, don'tcha think?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Hell, I thought the pope was bambi and his naivete was just showing through.no, he's calling Limbaugh evil, as is expected for those on the Left.

[diverdog]

instead, the pope is suggesting it is the job of governments to redistribute wealth. He prolly likes our Dear Leader, don'tcha think?

You are making a mistake trying to equate problems in the US vs problems in places like Mexico, Brazil or Tanzania.

[okie52]

no, he's calling Limbaugh evil, as is expected for those on the Left.

Ignorance can often be more dangerous than the most evil of beings...Economically, that's where I put this pope.

[okie52]

You are making a mistake trying to equate problems in the US vs problems in places like Mexico, Brazil or Tanzania.

(SEE VENEZUELA)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You are making a mistake trying to equate problems in the US vs problems in places like Mexico, Brazil or Tanzania.transformation, baby, hope and change. Your post #6 is still a good one. grats

[KantoSooner]

Kanto, I think it is silly to try and equate personal, VOLUNTARY, social charity with enforced, non-voluntary socialistic, redistrubutionist government policies. The Pope is treading on thin ice if he doesn't clearly differentiate between the two. In fact, the Pope should be decrying large entitlement programs that trap enormous numbers of people into trans-generational poverty and dependence.

oh, I'd tend to agree with you; but the Church has for a long time been about collecting tithes and using those funds in a variety of ways, many of which are redistributive. Again, it's very hard to read the Bible politically and not come away with a most decidedly socialist taste in your mouth. Lots of 'sharing' and none of it very voluntary if you want to be a 'true' follower.

And I'd also tend to agree with you about an absolute boundary between church and state. But that, too, has proven to be something the Church is decidedly ambivalent about.

[KantoSooner]

Hell, I thought the pope was bambi and his naivete was just showing through.

That's an entirely possible, and perhaps valid, interpretation. I can't take credit for it, but it is a valid twist on the whole thing.

[KantoSooner]

no, he's calling Limbaugh evil, as is expected for those on the Left.

Godzilla is not evil. He is, instead, a mundane creature, bloated beyond recognition by the world's rejection and left to a life of unfocused, pre-verbal rage against things beyond his ken and command.

...

Damn, Okie is kind of right, more and more he DOES sound like Limbaugh.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Godzilla is a creature from prehistoric times, unleashed by the existence of nuclear arms, by the evil USA, on the good people of Japan. He prolly doesn't mean any harm, but is just too agitated and out of control to do anything but ruin people and their stuff.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

...
Damn, Okie is kind of right, more and more he DOES sound like Limbaugh.Well, okie said he thought the pope is economically ignorant, therefore becoming dangerous, and had the naivete of bambi.

[Turd_Ferguson]

lol...Kanto tried to make a liberal funny and tripped on his dick...lol

[diverdog]

(SEE VENEZUELA)

You lost me.

[diverdog]

transformation, baby, hope and change. Your post #6 is still a good one. grats

Rush no matter how bad you guys think Obama is he is nothing like these third world dictators. Just look at Mexico where the army controls the drug trade and the local police department is the muscle for the narco terrorist. In the Sierra Madre's you can get killed for farting the wrong way. We have our problems but they pail in scope to the daily **** that happens in most of the rest of the world.

[KantoSooner]

lol...Kanto tried to make a liberal funny and tripped on his dick...lol

Reeelly? Seriously, you see no humor in Limbaugh picking a philosophy fight with The Pope? I am put in mind of Robin Williams line in Good Morning Vietnam: "Never in my life have I seen a white man in so dire need of a blow job."

Oh, and typically I just throw the thing over my shoulder and get on with what needs doing.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Reeelly? Seriously, you see no humor in Limbaugh picking a philosophy fight with The Pope? I am put in mind of Robin Williams line in Good Morning Vietnam: "Never in my life have I seen a white man in so dire need of a blow job."

Oh, and typically I just throw the thing over my shoulder and get on with what needs doing.I think your first mistake before posting this thread was to think Limbaugh was picking a fight with the pope, instead of realizing that Limbaugh was just stunned and disappointed at the pope attacking capitalism, and advocating that government(s) go authoritarian.

[KantoSooner]

Heh. "Distinction without a Difference" anyone?

[diverdog]

Heh. "Distinction without a Difference" anyone?

I just skimmed Evangelii Gaudium and is a remarkable document. Some of his attacks on capitalism is warranted. But a lot of his calls to action would be familiar ground to conservatives...a dislike of secularism, loss of family values, an entertainment media that has no moral code etc. Mostly he wants us to embrace the teachings of Christ.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I just skimmed Evangelii Gaudium and is a remarkable document. Some of his attacks on capitalism is warranted. But a lot of his calls to action would be familiar ground to conservatives...a dislike of secularism, loss of family values, an entertainment media that has no moral code etc. Mostly he wants us to embrace the teachings of Christ.it's been obvious for a while that you(along with Michael Moore, and apparently Kanto)are claiming you believe that Jesus taught a part of socialism(authoritative government ramrodding wealth distribution actions), in addition to personal, voluntary actions of charity, is preferred or correct. That is an incorrect assessment, and that is where the pope is mistaken.

[KantoSooner]

So, RLIMC is now a greater authority on Christianity and the teachings of the Catholic Church than Pope Francis? I just want to get this right.
Perhaps you and your clone could start your own church. Maybe offer prescription pain killers instead of the host? it'd make for entertaining Sunday afternoons, though not much yard work would get done.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Leftists have apparently been claiming Jesus espouses authoritarianisnm in government for some time. No doubt that the Left believes in it, but only when they are in power, of course.

[KantoSooner]

That's part of the fun of this thread. The folks who were all for authoritarian enforcement of religious norrms when they happened to be in favor of those norms are now spluttering like Limbaugh when the infallible church turns around and enunciates a different (though historically well established) position.

Look, watching hypocrites like Limbaugh being hoist on his own petard is a cheap thrill. And rather cruel at that; the man is so pitifully stupid that it's akin to mean boys cornering an alley cat and throwing rocks at it. However, what makes it fair is that he's made a career out of being loud; so now, when he opens his mouth and exposes himself, it's hard to construct any defense.

All Francis has done is enunciate a well established anti-materialist stance that has been part of church writings since the first of the Gospels. The early church was rife with folks giving away coats and cloaks, sharing food, eshewing material things all over the place. And it's easy to see why. It's far easier to concentrate on matters of the spirit when you're not humping to make that payment on your Beemer.
And prelates for at least the past 200 years have periodicaly inveighed against a general materialist culture. And in that, they have overlapped a bit with socialists (I'd argue without crossing the line due to, again, a focus on the spirit rather than the full on materialist focus of the socialists). It's nothing to be terribly concerned about. That Limbaugh is up in arms indicates he is either a troll (likely conclusion) or is utterly unaware of the contents of the Bible and without the vaguest grasp of Western history.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Limbaugh believes in limited government like the founders did, like I have, and probably still a majority of Americans do. You can keep coming with your beliefs that are pro socialist as far a wealth redistribution, and I realize you will argue indefinitely. Who is surprised that you have decided to call Limbaugh stupid?

[KantoSooner]

As you are so fond of retreating to: What do you know of my beliefs?
That I favor looking at a single payer national health system? And so, you somehow build from that whole cloth, "...pro-socialist as far a (sic) wealth distibution...".
Have you had any Introduction To Logic in your educational portfolio?
You simply can't make the jump you intended and would be quite wrong in your conclusion if you did so. I believe that I have a far deeper commitment to limited government than any of the current crop of ideologues you seem to revere.

I will repeat, and raise you a 'moron': Limbaugh is displaying either a childish devotion to 'stirring the ****' without any intellectual honesty or really fails to grasp the most basic issues he is blathering about. In that he is a moron.

I can find Francis' position naive, ultimately unworkable or outright silly....and still find his grip on what is a time honored debate to be firm.

And I can find humor in watching those who would use the church to their ends now discomforted to find themselves blindsided by the old Jesuit.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

... What do you know of my beliefs?
That I favor looking at a single payer national health system? And so, you somehow build from that whole cloth, "...pro-socialist as far a (sic) wealth distibution...".

I will repeat, and raise you a 'moron': Limbaugh is displaying either a childish devotion to 'stirring the ****' without any intellectual honesty or really fails to grasp the most basic issues he is blathering about. In that he is a moron.

I can find Francis' position naive, ultimately unworkable or outright silly....and still find his grip on what is a time honored debate to be firm. (as though Limbaugh or anyone else can't, haha)

And I can find humor in watching those who would use the church to their ends now discomforted to find themselves blindsided by the old Jesuit.I don't really think it makes a big difference whether you favor wealth redistribution in every area or just certain ones, such as health care. That alone shows you don't believe in our constitution, and you would certainly not be alone. It's an expected stretch for you to proclaim Limbaugh, or anyone else is stupid,however, for denounce authoritarian behavior. His disappointment in seeing the current pope espouse authoritarian actions is just as unwelcomed by countless others as it was to Limbaugh. Too bad for the country that our present leaders, and you apparently, lap it up.

[diverdog]

I don't really think it makes a big difference whether you favor wealth redistribution in every area or just certain ones, such as health care. That alone shows you don't believe in our constitution, and you would certainly not be alone. It's an expected stretch for you to proclaim Limbaugh, or anyone else is stupid,however, for denounce authoritarian behavior. His disappointment in seeing the current pope espouse authoritarian actions is just as unwelcomed by countless others as it was to Limbaugh. Too bad for the country that our present leaders, and you apparently, lap it up.

It is painfully obvious you have not read the Pope's Evangelii Gaudium and secondly you do not understand that this document is an on going thesis that has continued through the previous two Popes. And you might be surprised to find out that Pope said he loved both the rich and poor alike. Oh and nowhere in there does he advocate confiscation of property. So it is clear you are making **** up.

[diverdog]

it's been obvious for a while that you(along with Michael Moore, and apparently Kanto)are claiming you believe that Jesus taught a part of socialism(authoritative government ramrodding wealth distribution actions), in addition to personal, voluntary actions of charity, is preferred or correct. That is an incorrect assessment, and that is where the pope is mistaken.

Did you not read the article?


In "Evangelii," Francis called for more of a spiritual and ethical revolution than a regulatory one.

In otherwords he wants us to be more spiritual, charitable and ethical. Somehow you have a problem with that line of reasoning? No where in his publication did he talk about confiscating private property.

[KantoSooner]

Rush, it makes all the difference in the world. Whether you're talking martial arts, painting, cooking or philosophy, the unmistakable mark of the noob is a robotic insistence upon 'the rules' and a tendency towards screaming temper tantrums when those 'rules' are violated.
When Francis points out that there are poor people in the world who seem to be excluded from the 'game' of capitalism, a mature approach would be to listen, examine and analyze instead of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and insisting that such things can't be in a capitalist world.
In this case, some of the problem is a lack of free markets. The above mentioned corruption, for example. (Which itself presents a paradox in that the solution is less control by bureaucrats (less for them to 'give') and more policing (higher penalties). So less government and more, simultaneously.) Some is related to tax policy...which itself raises pretty fundamental debates about what we want to do collectively (police, fire, roads) and how much it should cost. And so forth.
But having the debate, or even championing a dialing of the system this way or that does not make of Francis a Marxist. Lighten up and join the conversation. You'll find it's surprisingly more nuanced than Limbaugh's pathetic flailing would indicate.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Limbaugh is not dumb. He's knows exactly what he's doing. He uses the most inflammatory language that will stir up his little minions and keep them listening to his show and buying his books. To call anything the Pope said "marxist" is like calling anything Bush did akin to nazism. It's just hyperbole.

The Pope didn't call for communal ownership of the means of production or confiscation of property. What he said is what I've seen many here say, even those of the conservative persuasion. There is certainly too much wealth flowing to speculators and rent seekers. Then when their bets go bad they are bailed out by the taxpayers. Now the Fed props up the stock market making the rich richer and squeezing the middle class with higher prices for food and energy.

What the Pope said is no different than what he's said from day one. Society should have concern for the poor and believers should have concern for the poor. He didn't say anything about political remedies.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Limbaugh believes in limited government like the founders did, like I have, and probably still a majority of Americans do. You can keep coming with your beliefs that are pro socialist as far a wealth redistribution, and I realize you will argue indefinitely. Who is surprised that you have decided to call Limbaugh stupid?

Limbaugh does not believe in limited gov't. Anybody that advocates an American empire does not believe in limited gov't.