Here's another program soaking up 2-star DT and DE recruits

[Tear Down This Wall]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/commitments/2014/colorado-18

Gee...maybe we shoulda joined the Pac-12 after all.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Our list, outside of skill players on offense, doesn't look too different than what Colorado is pulling in these days:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/commitments/2014

[lexsooner]

Maybe you're putting too much stock into the validity of the ratings of recruiting services. After all, how credible could their ratings be when they add a star to a recruit upon his commitment to a big name program like OU?

[Tear Down This Wall]

Maybe you're putting too much stock into the validity of the ratings of recruiting services. After all, how credible could their ratings be when they add a star to a recruit upon his commitment to a big name program like OU?

I don't know or care. I just know that schools like this one - http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/commitments/2014/Alabama-73 - are getting 4- and 5-star defensive and offense linemen, and we are not.

The game is won and lost on the lines. We are asleep at the wheel where it matters. It's become such an issue with us that Stoops has thrown in the towel and switched to one of those gimmicky defenses like the TCUs, Utahs, and BYUs of the world have to run because they can't get the best linemen.

It's fine for the TCUs, Utahs, and BYUs of the world. But, we should be on the same 4- and 5-star guys that Alabama is getting. If we are not getting that type of DL/OL recruit anymore, we are spinning our wheels.

[Tear Down This Wall]

And, if it doesn't bother us that we're getting the same quality line recruits as Colorado, then there is something seriously wrong with us.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Maybe you're putting too much stock into the validity of the ratings of recruiting services. After all, how credible could their ratings be when they add a star to a recruit upon his commitment to a big name program like OU?

At this point, he's just trolling. The one thing you don't ever see from the "MUST GET MORE STARZ" types is them ever looking back at previous classes to see if there was any correlation. What I found in the last 90's early 2000's doing the reviews was that OU's classes were always overranked if you refactored the stars, but correctly or under-ranked based on the results on the field.

For example, the 2000 WR class

OU In order of rankings -> Ataleo Ford (4), Will Peoples(3), Antonio Perkins (3), Mark Clayton (1), Wes Welker(1) (committed walkon who got an offer from TTech after Leach left - good thing we HAD to have Jamar Mozee as the best player in that class)
Texas In order of rankings -> BJ Johnson (5), Roy Williams (5), Sloan Thompson(4)

If you went back and reranked it based on who played you'd have us with 3, 1, 1 (and one 3* corner) so we were overrated even though the results on the field were similar to Texas's.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

And, if it doesn't bother us that we're getting the same quality line recruits as Colorado, then there is something seriously wrong with us.

How in the world do you know these guys are the same quality? Have you personally went out and compared them?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I don't know or care. I just know that schools like this one - http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/commitments/2014/Alabama-73 - are getting 4- and 5-star defensive and offense linemen, and we are not.

The game is won and lost on the lines. We are asleep at the wheel where it matters. It's become such an issue with us that Stoops has thrown in the towel and switched to one of those gimmicky defenses like the TCUs, Utahs, and BYUs of the world have to run because they can't get the best linemen.

It's fine for the TCUs, Utahs, and BYUs of the world. But, we should be on the same 4- and 5-star guys that Alabama is getting. If we are not getting that type of DL/OL recruit anymore, we are spinning our wheels.

There was a team 4-5 years ago who was getting a ton of 4 and 5* OL -> USC -> how are they doing right now?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

How do you propose we go into those SEC area high schools and convince those kids that they'll get better coaching and opportunities at Oklahoma rather than the school most of them grew up cheering for like Alabama?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Let's explore Troll down's theory about OL -> USC style

http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/commitments/2008/usc-62
2008 -> 5 OL - 2 5*, 3 4*
2009 -> 2 OL - 2 4*
2010 -> 1 OL - 1 4*
2011 -> 6 OL - 2 4* 3 3* 1 2*
2012 -> 3 OL - 2 5* 1 4*

Record
2008 - 12-1
2009 - 9-4
2010 - 8-5
2011 - 10-2
2012 - 7-6
2013 - 9-3

[NorthernIowaSooner]

This thread will look foolish when Colorado is 2015 MNC's!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

This thread will look foolish when Colorado is 2015 MNC's!

I doubt that happens, but Colorado is also nightmare when it comes to recruiting. When I was following recruiting fairly heavily it was a given that a 5* out of there was going to be mediocre. Every school in the region got bit by it (including us with Latimer). Conversely there were always guys like Jeremy Bloom and Nate Solder who were really good but were 2 and 3* guys.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

I doubt that happens, but Colorado is also nightmare when it comes to recruiting. When I was following recruiting fairly heavily it was a given that a 5* out of there was going to be mediocre. Every school in the region got bit by it (including us with Latimer). Conversely there were always guys like Jeremy Bloom and Nate Solder who were really good but were 2 and 3* guys.

I doubt it too, I was being sarcastic since Tear Down This Wall is always so doom and gloom about everything.

[Scott D]

I doubt it too, I was being sarcastic since Tear Down This Wall is always so doom and gloom about everything.

besides this thread already looks foolish on it's own merit :)

[lexsooner]

besides this thread already looks foolish on it's own merit :)

Well, it didn't start out well when the OP stated "I don't know and I don't care" in response to a post challenging the credibility of recruiting ratings, even though the entire premise of his OP is based upon recruiting ratings having validity.

[KantoSooner]

Hold on there, Chief. Since when has consistency or logic been required on this board? Let's not set bad precedent.

[picasso]

The Gipper has lost his spirit.

[lexsooner]

It's bedtime for Bonzo.

[SoonerorLater]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/commitments/2014/colorado-18

Gee...maybe we shoulda joined the Pac-12 after all.

Well this is just proof positive that CU is gearing up for a National Championship run by recruiting these undervalued players while other teams like Alabama continue to waste their time with all of those overrated 4 & 5 star recruits.

[birddog]

I used to really enjoy tdtw`s posts for the most part. Think he's a little too bitter these days.

[Scott D]

All one has to do is look at the individual list. We don't pull many kids out of the area that most of Bama's recruits are. Maybe "one that got away" is the alleged 4 star Juco DT they have on their list....but as we know Jucos are a crapshoot. You can end up with a Torrance Marshall, or you can end up with a Chris Patterson.

[8timechamps]

I'm done with any kind of recruiting conversation with TDTW. He's a "sorta follow" recruiting kind of guy, which means he really has no clue how it works. Not trying to be a dick, just calling it like I see it. If you guys want to spend time trying to inform him, good luck.

[Scott D]

you're being generous with the "sorta follow" ;)

[Since71ASooner4Life]

I don't know or care. I just know that schools like this one - http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/commitments/2014/Alabama-73 - are getting 4- and 5-star defensive and offense linemen, and we are not.

The game is won and lost on the lines. We are asleep at the wheel where it matters. It's become such an issue with us that Stoops has thrown in the towel and switched to one of those gimmicky defenses like the TCUs, Utahs, and BYUs of the world have to run because they can't get the best linemen.

It's fine for the TCUs, Utahs, and BYUs of the world. But, we should be on the same 4- and 5-star guys that Alabama is getting. If we are not getting that type of DL/OL recruit anymore, we are spinning our wheels.


Exactly. We can rationalize all we want, by pointing to successful 3 star guys, but the fact is that far greater percentage of 5-star kids amount to something than do 3 star kids. Not sure exactly what all the reasons are for our drop off in recruiting, but I suspect some of the no heart beat downs we've suffered in bowl games is one factor. The 5-star kids flocking to Alabama aren't going there looking to restore the program to elite status. Not sure what we have to do to get out of the mess we're in, but we are in fact in a compromised position in the recruiting battles these days

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm done with any kind of recruiting conversation with TDTW. He's a "sorta follow" recruiting kind of guy, which means he really has no clue how it works. Not trying to be a dick, just calling it like I see it. If you guys want to spend time trying to inform him, good luck.

What about his other 2 handles in this thread. Are you through with them as well?

[8timechamps]

What about his other 2 handles in this thread. Are you through with them as well?

Well, sometimes, it's more fun to just watch.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Well, sometimes, it's more fun to just watch.

It is just kind of funny when you have 2 posters come in and skip 10 posts and then say almost the exact same thing as the OP. Obvious trolls are obvious.

[8timechamps]

ESPN Tom Luginbill was asked a question by a Baylor fan. The question was: "What's been Baylor's recruiting secret that helped turn them into a championship contender?"

I'll post his response, but it could be applied to recruiting in general. In the future, when someone starts a thread like this, I'm just going to post this reply:



This answer is quite simple, in my opinion. Baylor has had the luxury of recruiting undercover. What I mean by this is we often hear about under-the-radar prospects, but Baylor has been able to recruit as an under-the-radar program. When you have had as many down years as Baylor had before Art Briles’ arrival, you have very few expectations from just about everyone but the coaching staff.

With today’s premier programs, they are all under such immense pressure to sign as many four and five-star players, and if you pursue players who don’t fit into that mold, you are perceived to not be doing a good job. Baylor hasn’t had to deal with this type of pressure …yet. Put it this way: If Texas would have signed LaMichael James, many of the Texas faithful at that time would have said, “Who?” However, Oregon comes in and signs him with much lower expectations from their fan base and less pressure in terms of people caring about who a guy is, instead of what he means for the program, and presto! A great player is born and helps build a program.

I could run down the roster of the Baylor Bears and point to 20 players like LaMichael James that have helped put this program on the map, but coming out of high school were likely undervalued. This has allowed Briles and the staff to focus on what is important. Getting the best player or perceived best player isn’t always the same thing as getting the right player. Briles has predicated his blueprint in recruiting on making sure the player is the right fit, while at the same time developing and making accurate projections athletically. They haven’t had to worry about pressure of what people think and oftentimes haven’t even had to get into too many battles over lots of guys because Baylor might have been the best option for the prospect.

Here’s a warning for Baylor fans and alumni: Don’t screw this up. Let them be who they are, because it works. Expectations are now different and that is a good thing. It will only get tougher from here, but don’t make it harder than it needs to be by all of a sudden requiring Baylor to start changing their process. If higher-profile guys are now open to Baylor who weren’t before, great, but that doesn’t mean they are necessarily the right player.

Let Briles make that call; he’s done a darn good job so far.

[SoonerorLater]

ESPN Tom Luginbill was asked a question by a Baylor fan. The question was: "What's been Baylor's recruiting secret that helped turn them into a championship contender?"

I'll post his response, but it could be applied to recruiting in general. In the future, when someone starts a thread like this, I'm just going to post this reply:

[/FONT][/COLOR]

I really don't disagree with what Luginbill says though I really don't follow ESPN recruiting much. Baylor might have that luxury for now, OU doesn't. I would also say that Briles would be the prototype fit for such a strategy and even so it will eventually catch up with him if he has continued success. He is from a state that many would consider the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. He is a home grown, up through the ranks guy who is the ultimate insider with a network of Texas high school coaches. Briles runs a program that captures the imagination of players who a few short years ago would have ended up at other programs.

IMO this just isn't viable plan for OU. We need to leverage our prestige as one of the greatest programs of all time. Great athletic programs do this all the time. Alabama in football. Kansas and Kentucky in basketball so some coaches are able to recruit to historical greatness. We need to be one of those programs. The SEC sure recruits around here. We have already dropped the second and third top Oklahoma recruits to the SEC and have a good chance of dropping the number one recruit. We have only landed 3 of the top 10 in-state recruits. OSU has been as successful as we have been this year. If we can't land the top recruits in state then we are hosed.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I really don't disagree with what Luginbill says though I really don't follow ESPN recruiting much. Baylor might have that luxury for now, OU doesn't. I would also say that Briles would be the prototype fit for such a strategy and even so it will eventually catch up with him if he has continued success. He is from a state that many would consider the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. He is a home grown, up through the ranks guy who is the ultimate insider with a network of Texas high school coaches. Briles runs a program that captures the imagination of players who a few short years ago would have ended up at other programs.

IMO this just isn't viable plan for OU. We need to leverage our prestige as one of the greatest programs of all time. Great athletic programs do this all the time. Alabama in football. Kansas and Kentucky in basketball so some coaches are able to recruit to historical greatness. We need to be one of those programs. The SEC sure recruits around here. We have already dropped the second and third top Oklahoma recruits to the SEC and have a good chance of dropping the number one recruit. We have only landed 3 of the top 10 in-state recruits. OSU has been as successful as we have been this year. If we can't land the top recruits in state then we are hosed.

OU has NEVER been successful landing the top in state recruits. Even when Switzer was there, ND was able to nab Tony and Reggie Brooks.

[SoonerorLater]

OU has NEVER been successful landing the top in state recruits. Even when Switzer was there, ND was able to nab Tony and Reggie Brooks.

I think we are going to have to disagree on this one. When I look back on the best teams that Switzer had
I see it littered with big time in state recruits. Just look at the guys from Oklahoma that Switzer had on the 74-75 championship teams. Lee Roy Selmon, Dewey Selmon, Karl Baldischwiler, Rod Shoate, Randy Hughes, Tinker Owens, Sammy Jack Claphan, Jimbo Elrod, Tony Peters. These were great players. All of them had multi-year NFL careers so I would say Switzer had pretty good results in Oklahoma.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think we are going to have to disagree on this one. When I look back on the best teams that Switzer had
I see it littered with big time in state recruits. Just look at the guys from Oklahoma that Switzer had on the 74-75 championship teams. Lee Roy Selmon, Dewey Selmon, Karl Baldischwiler, Rod Shoate, Randy Hughes, Tinker Owens, Sammy Jack Claphan, Jimbo Elrod, Tony Peters. These were great players. All of them had multi-year NFL careers so I would say Switzer had pretty good results in Oklahoma.

Couple of things here:

Switzer recruited the Selmon bros in the last year of unlimited scholarships (1972). It was between us and Colorado but that is neither here nor there (as they were pretty good then).
The rest of these guys were recruited in a period of 105 scholarships. His general plan was to take the 15 best instate every year and then go to texas for the other 15-20. This worked until 1979-80 when the scholarship limit was lowered to 95. For the first 2 years he continued this strategy but the results were not up to snuff (9-3) where he dropped the instate totals to 10. Bob Stoops only has 85 which means that given the trend, he can't afford to get more than 5-7 instate every year.
Recruiting Oklahoma outside of a few positions is tough as crap.

There are a lot of kids who don't fill out until they turn 19. This means that guys like Jeremy Shockey don't get offered out of high school and then add 6 inches and 40 lbs their first year at juco or Justin Blackmon who gained 4 inches and 30 lbs. It takes someone who KNOWS Oklahoma to recruit it.
We produce a lot of "unconventional" football players. Guys like Wes Welker and Paul Smith and Antonio Perkins. They aren't prototype speed/size but they have such high football IQs that they are really really good players. It takes someone who KNOWS Oklahoma players to trust that they can translate it to the next level.
The top ranked kids tend to bust because they don't handle the transition to college very easily. For whatever reason, they, as big fish, can't handle the transfer from a small pond to a big pond. For every Gerald McCoy there is a dusty loveless and a Bryan Pickryl.

[8timechamps]

I really don't disagree with what Luginbill says though I really don't follow ESPN recruiting much. Baylor might have that luxury for now, OU doesn't. I would also say that Briles would be the prototype fit for such a strategy and even so it will eventually catch up with him if he has continued success. He is from a state that many would consider the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. He is a home grown, up through the ranks guy who is the ultimate insider with a network of Texas high school coaches. Briles runs a program that captures the imagination of players who a few short years ago would have ended up at other programs.

IMO this just isn't viable plan for OU. We need to leverage our prestige as one of the greatest programs of all time. Great athletic programs do this all the time. Alabama in football. Kansas and Kentucky in basketball so some coaches are able to recruit to historical greatness. We need to be one of those programs. The SEC sure recruits around here. We have already dropped the second and third top Oklahoma recruits to the SEC and have a good chance of dropping the number one recruit. We have only landed 3 of the top 10 in-state recruits. OSU has been as successful as we have been this year. If we can't land the top recruits in state then we are hosed.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but the reason I posted Luginbill's response was because I think for the average recruit followers, it addresses why there is no need to think "the sky is falling" because we opt to sign 2 or 3 star guys. The point is that we recruit the best player for the position, which isn't always the best perceived player.

As for what the SEC has done in Oklahoma, I'm not concerned. OU decided to go with Hansen at QB, and never really looked Cornwell's direction. Then, Cornwell ends up getting hurt, and I'm not sure he'll ever be a stater for the Tide. While there's a chance Parker goes to A&M, I'd be very shocked if that happened.

As for OSU, so far the best player they've landed (Devin Thomas) was an OU commit who's offer was pulled. They currently have another commit (Brailford) that would flip in a heartbeat if OU made an offer. They are not recruiting as successfully as OU is this year. Or any other year.

Back to the original point though, OU has always brought in players that weren't 4 or 5 star kids. This is not a new occurrence. What amazes me is that there is a small sect of Sooner fans that continue to flip out (year in and year out) over these commits. The last national title was won with these types of players. Numerous conference titles have been won with these types of players. Yet, that small group of fans will continue to only look at the stars next to a kids name, and make predictions before the kid ever steps foot on campus. Just kinda nuts.

[Sooner Sig Ep]

[ Yet, that small group of fans will continue to only look at the stars next to a kids name, and make predictions before the kid ever steps foot on campus. Just kinda nuts.[/QUOTE]


...same folks who buy stocks based on an analyst's upgrade to "outperform"..:)

[dwarthog]

I propose that we do what folks accused the gent of doing down in Texas who was rating the Texas high school prospects. (I can't recall his name and I haven't heard anything about this practice for a while now). Which was to "add" a star for wisely committing to Texas.

So for recruits who wisely choose the OU program, add a star. Problem solved.... :-)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

In honor of the OP and as an act of defiance, I am going to rate this thread 2 stars! See the difference between a 5 start thread and a 2 star?!

[C&CDean]

2 stars? Way too high.

[SoonerorLater]

In honor of the OP and as an act of defiance, I am going to rate this thread 2 stars! See the difference between a 5 start thread and a 2 star?!

Yes any thread I post on is automatically a 2 star thread. Just my absence would bump this to a high 3 star / low 4 star. See I told you this ranking stuff works.:lemo:

[8timechamps]

[ Yet, that small group of fans will continue to only look at the stars next to a kids name, and make predictions before the kid ever steps foot on campus. Just kinda nuts.


...same folks who buy stocks based on an analyst's upgrade to "outperform"..:)[/QUOTE]

I've been a broker for nearly 20 years, so that made me laugh more than you think. Well played.

[Sooner Sig Ep]

[ Yet, that small group of fans will continue to only look at the stars next to a kids name, and make predictions before the kid ever steps foot on campus. Just kinda nuts.


...same folks who buy stocks based on an analyst's upgrade to "outperform"..:)

I've been a broker for nearly 20 years, so that made me laugh more than you think. Well played.[/QUOTE]


Ha. Small world.... I've been in the biz for 15 myself...