Like your employer-based health care, Likely gone next year with Leftistcare...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yep, the lying liar Leftist in Chief will engineer a single payer system (after lying through his teeth) and this will come out next year when the employer mandate hits.

Prepare for much higher costs and less coverage... (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/26/evidence-shows-obama-administration-predicted-tens-millions-would-lose-plans/)

No wonder Leftist Reid wants the nuclear option, so he can pack the court before the next elections...

I wonder what the Leftist had on Chief Justice Roberts to get him to change his mind...


Though it likely won't matter after Neville Chamberlain, errr, The Leftist in Chief gives Iran the bomb, they will use it...

[REDREX]

This Country needs to wake up quick

[diverdog]

What no one is talking about is there are a lot of **** plans out there. And as a result those of us who have good insurance and good jobs are taking it in the *** for the under insured or uninsured. I am not defending Obamacare but I am saying our health system is broken.

[REDREX]

Too bad Obamacare does NOTHING to fix the problems

[Tear Down This Wall]

It is not "likely" gone, they will be gone, same as the individual plans. We sell group benefits down here in Dallas.

You can't expect Barak Obama and John Roberts to understand business because they've never had real jobs. They have no idea what they have wrought.

What you are getting out of government is the world according to attorneys. It will have to completely cripple the country's economy/middle class before any of them admit it was a mistake.

[Tear Down This Wall]

What no one is talking about is there are a lot of **** plans out there. And as a result those of us who have good insurance and good jobs are taking it in the *** for the under insured or uninsured. I am not defending Obamacare but I am saying our health system is broken.

What you call a "sh*t" plan may be the plan someone chose for their own reason. Everyone has their own risk tolerance. If someone wanted a barebones/"catastrophe" policy, it shouldn't have been the government's business to tell them they couldn't have it.

Also, if the health system was so broken, just fix it. For more than 85% of Americans, the health insurance system was not broken.

The only people left out were people who had some medical condition that was going to be expensive to pay for, and those who simply chose not to insure...and, of course, the class of people who always act helpless in any and every situation of their lives.

So, what has happened is the 15% who didn't have insurance are getting it cheap, and the middle class/working people are going to pay through the nose for them...

...maybe. If the whole thing doesn't collapse. And, there's a good chance that it will.

[Skysooner]

What you call a "sh*t" plan may be the plan someone chose for their own reason. Everyone has their own risk tolerance. If someone wanted a barebones/"catastrophe" policy, it shouldn't have been the government's business to tell them they couldn't have it.

Also, if the health system was so broken, just fix it. For more than 85% of Americans, the health insurance system was not broken.

The only people left out were people who had some medical condition that was going to be expensive to pay for, and those who simply chose not to insure...and, of course, the class of people who always act helpless in any and every situation of their lives.

So, what has happened is the 15% who didn't have insurance are getting it cheap, and the middle class/working people are going to pay through the nose for them...

...maybe. If the whole thing doesn't collapse. And, there's a good chance that it will.

We are already paying for them by the people who don't have the means to pay anything and go to hospitals which are the most expensive care out there. It also does nothing for long-term conditions like diabetes that cost a fortune if left uncontrolled.

[diverdog]

What you call a "sh*t" plan may be the plan someone chose for their own reason. Everyone has their own risk tolerance. If someone wanted a barebones/"catastrophe" policy, it shouldn't have been the government's business to tell them they couldn't have it.

Also, if the health system was so broken, just fix it. For more than 85% of Americans, the health insurance system was not broken.

The only people left out were people who had some medical condition that was going to be expensive to pay for, and those who simply chose not to insure...and, of course, the class of people who always act helpless in any and every situation of their lives.

So, what has happened is the 15% who didn't have insurance are getting it cheap, and the middle class/working people are going to pay through the nose for them...

...maybe. If the whole thing doesn't collapse. And, there's a good chance that it will.

this is a real story.

a friend of mine has a heart attack, required open heart surgery and complications. His insurance failed to pay $80000 of his cost. Despite having $100 K in the bank he negotiates 36 monthly payments of $100 and then he is done. So guess who eats the other $70 k in cost.

i am sick and tired about talking about their rights and then handing us the bill.

[yermom]

What you call a "sh*t" plan may be the plan someone chose for their own reason. Everyone has their own risk tolerance. If someone wanted a barebones/"catastrophe" policy, it shouldn't have been the government's business to tell them they couldn't have it.

Also, if the health system was so broken, just fix it. For more than 85% of Americans, the health insurance system was not broken.

The only people left out were people who had some medical condition that was going to be expensive to pay for, and those who simply chose not to insure...and, of course, the class of people who always act helpless in any and every situation of their lives.

So, what has happened is the 15% who didn't have insurance are getting it cheap, and the middle class/working people are going to pay through the nose for them...

...maybe. If the whole thing doesn't collapse. And, there's a good chance that it will.

not everyone has much of a choice either. it's not like everyone has a great job and a bunch of disposable income. you complain about people having "real jobs" but you might be a little out of touch with reality as well.

it was and continues to be broken, and likely will stay that way as long as health care is a for-profit enterprise

[FaninAma]

I think over the next 3 years we will see how much of a socialist-leftist Obama is. If the Democrats go down in flames in 2014 and lose control of the Senate I actually think the dumbass will push the country into a Constitutional crisis.

[yermom]

What can he really do without the Senate though?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

My health care has been just fine, Thank you very much. I am happy and have been for as long as I have been working. There in lies the rub...I am producing, yet have to pay for the dead beats who live large on the gubment dole...with all their free shi'ite. If I lose my healthcare and my choice of doctors...I suspect a revolution at the ballot box will not be far from happening. Last straw kind of thing...

[FaninAma]

not everyone has much of a choice either. it's not like everyone has a great job and a bunch of disposable income. you complain about people having "real jobs" but you might be a little out of touch with reality as well.

it was and continues to be broken, and likely will stay that way as long as health care is a for-profit enterprise

So, should everybody have the exact same health care coverage? I am all for that but who pays for it? Or do you think those who can afford to pay for better coverage shouldn't be allowed to do so? Do the progressives just want everybody to have the same level of health care coverage regardless of the quality of the health care? Is that what is fair?

[diverdog]

My health care has been just fine, Thank you very much. I am happy and have been for as long as I have been working. There in lies the rub...I am producing, yet have to pay for the dead beats who live large on the gubment dole...with all their free shi'ite. If I lose my healthcare and my choice of doctors...I suspect a revolution at the ballot box will not be far from happening. Last straw kind of thing...

You are also paying for people who have crap health care coverage and high deductibles (who cannot afford the deductibles).

http://aishealth.com/archive/nhpw061812-03

[diverdog]

So, should everybody have the exact same health care coverage? I am all for that but who pays for it? Or do you think those who can afford to pay for better coverage shouldn't be allowed to do so? Do the progressives just want everybody to have the same level of health care coverage regardless of the quality of the health care? Is that what is fair?

Yes everyone should be paying for the same health care coverage. I am not opposed to being able to purchase insurance for things like private rooms, coverage for elective surgeries etc.

[REDREX]

Yes everyone should be paying for the same health care coverage. I am not opposed to being able to purchase insurance for things like private rooms, coverage for elective surgeries etc.---I think people should buy they type of insurance that they want to -----big Gov't solutions do not work

[badger]

People talk big, but less than half of registered voters will still show up at the midterm elections because their vote doesn't matter, they don't care, blah blah.

People said they hated Obama(care) before the last election. Sure didn't look that way after the vote. Bunch of no-shows

I have bragging rights till 2014 --- unlike a majority of the country, our little Tulsa-area congressional district did what everything said they were going to do but didn't --- "throw the bums out!" We threw our incumbent out in the primary. We were angry at the direction of government and actually did something about it.

[FaninAma]

Yes everyone should be paying for the same health care coverage. I am not opposed to being able to purchase insurance for things like private rooms, coverage for elective surgeries etc.
Okay. Then what basic coverage should everybody get? You do realize you just advocated for a 2-tier system like Great Britain's. I guarantee you the progressives won't be happy with that.

[BermudaSooner]

it was and continues to be broken, and likely will stay that way as long as health care is a for-profit enterprise

Oh the evil profit seekers....be careful what you wish for, the day that health care is non-profit is the day that the quality of health care goes to ****.

I want our best and brightest going into healthcare. Apparently you either don't care whether and idiot operates on you, or you would enslave our best and brightest.

Profit is not evil, profit is what has transformed the human race from hunters and gathers to the society of today.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Too bad Obamacare does NOTHING to fix the problemsain't nothin' like a big fat Democrat vote!!! Soak em, punish em, stick it to em, yeeeehaaaaah!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

it(healthcare) was and continues to be broken, and likely will stay that way as long as health care is a for-profit enterpriseif ever people didn't know it before...prayers.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Oh the evil profit seekers....be careful what you wish for, the day that health care is non-profit is the day that the quality of health care goes to ****.

I want our best and brightest going into healthcare. Apparently you either don't care whether and idiot operates on you, or you would enslave our best and brightest.

Profit is not evil, profit is what has transformed the human race from hunters and gathers to the society of today.and, Yermom has a private sector job, I believe. If so, he should maybe just quit, and/or work hard to achieve government takeover of the company.

[jkjsooner]

Without Obamacare employer plans would have be gone in a decade or so anyway. It's because companies have slowly reduced benefits year after year over the last 20 or so years. It's because globalization has put US companies under pressure and the US workers have lost power.

In my experience the portion I have to pay has gone up every year since I started work (1994). My insurance coverage hasn't gotten worse but every other benefit has. We no longer have a pension plan. (It was never a defined benefit pension plan.) Our 401k matching has decreased. We can no longer roll over vacation days. It has been a steady stream of worsening benefits. My situation was not unique and there is no doubt that some day in the future the health plan would cease to exist.

If someone really wanted universal healthcare their best bet would have been to do nothing. When most companies started dropping health coverage there would have been a strong push towards a government solution.

[yermom]

Okay. Then what basic coverage should everybody get? You do realize you just advocated for a 2-tier system like Great Britain's. I guarantee you the progressives won't be happy with that.

isn't that who we are comparing to all the time?

when someone says we are the only civilized country to not have universal health care, isn't that what they are talking about?

[yermom]

and, Yermom has a private sector job, I believe. If so, he should maybe just quit, and/or work hard to achieve government takeover of the company.

my job doesn't involve letting people die if they don't have money

[KantoSooner]

Being self employed, I really don't have a dog in this specific fight. However, in looking over a brief scan of measures of satisfaction and trying to sift out the slanted coverage on one side and the other, I came across this article from Business Insider that seemed a pretty balanced view of how satisfired (or not) Britons are with their system.

Worth a read. It's not a long article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/british-satisfied-with-nhs-2013-9

[Soonerjeepman]

my job doesn't involve letting people die if they don't have money

is that happening in the USA? in relation to insurance?

[Soonerjeepman]

Being self employed, I really don't have a dog in this specific fight. However, in looking over a brief scan of measures of satisfaction and trying to sift out the slanted coverage on one side and the other, I came across this article from Business Insider that seemed a pretty balanced view of how satisfired (or not) Britons are with their system.

Worth a read. It's not a long article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/british-satisfied-with-nhs-2013-9

maybe so, as far as decent article..but it throws out 2 opposite numbers on USA satisfaction...I'd tend to go with 67% of USA citizens are satisfied with THEIR health insurance...similar to the brits.

[KantoSooner]

I think one take away from that article was that it matters very much who you're asking and exactly how the question is phrased.

I know that my answer to questions about healthcare quality and costs in the US would have been very different before and after 1994. Before then, I worked for a good old Minnesota family owned company. I paid something like $25 a month for healthcare that included a pair of glasses each year and massage therapy if desired. For a family of three. I felt that healthcare was pretty damned good, and affordable.

When I moved back here in 2008 from overseas and found that a), I might not be able to get any because I take blood pressure medicine and, b) it was going to be $350 per month (with a $5,000 deductible and no coverage for the BP or kidney stones) (it's now $550/month and rising...), let me assure you my opinion changed.

Just looking at a simple fact, we pay, in GNP terms, twice what the next costliest country on earth does (that'd be Switzerland - and brotha, when you pay twice what a Swiss pays for ANYTHING, you're paying too much...). Almost 20% of GNP. And the results? Middle of the pack for industrialized nations. So, super high price, mediocre product. Can't avoid facts.

[yermom]

is that happening in the USA? in relation to insurance?

my statement was based on health care, not insurance.

[Skysooner]

I think one take away from that article was that it matters very much who you're asking and exactly how the question is phrased.

I know that my answer to questions about healthcare quality and costs in the US would have been very different before and after 1994. Before then, I worked for a good old Minnesota family owned company. I paid something like $25 a month for healthcare that included a pair of glasses each year and massage therapy if desired. For a family of three. I felt that healthcare was pretty damned good, and affordable.

When I moved back here in 2008 from overseas and found that a), I might not be able to get any because I take blood pressure medicine and, b) it was going to be $350 per month (with a $5,000 deductible and no coverage for the BP or kidney stones) (it's now $550/month and rising...), let me assure you my opinion changed.

Just looking at a simple fact, we pay, in GNP terms, twice what the next costliest country on earth does (that'd be Switzerland - and brotha, when you pay twice what a Swiss pays for ANYTHING, you're paying too much...). Almost 20% of GNP. And the results? Middle of the pack for industrialized nations. So, super high price, mediocre product. Can't avoid facts.

Not only are we middle of the pack on health care, many of our specialists are going broke because of too many lawyers and a system that is geared towards big malpractice suits. I was talking with my ENT about my youngest who was talking about being a pediatrician. He just said don't do it. Apparently only about half of pediatricians even make a profit due to all of the malpractice they have to carry. Sure you deserve to make a good living if you go to school that long, but the system is broken as a whole, and the only people getting rich are certain attorneys and the insurance companies. Something has to change.

[Soonerjeepman]

my statement was based on health care, not insurance.

ok, still not following...please explain. FWIW, I'm coming form the angle that NO hospital can deny help due to ability to pay or insurance...so still not getting it.

[KantoSooner]

Not only are we middle of the pack on health care, many of our specialists are going broke because of too many lawyers and a system that is geared towards big malpractice suits. I was talking with my ENT about my youngest who was talking about being a pediatrician. He just said don't do it. Apparently only about half of pediatricians even make a profit due to all of the malpractice they have to carry. Sure you deserve to make a good living if you go to school that long, but the system is broken as a whole, and the only people getting rich are certain attorneys and the insurance companies. Something has to change.

The whole 'Dr's are going broke' thing fascinates me. While there are doctors who go broke due to malpractice suits, their number is miniscule and the total value of malpractice awards and the cost of defending malpractice suits is a pittance relative to physician income. In short: malpractice suits in and of themselves are meaningless unless you choose to practice medicine while drunk.
Now, the indirect cost of insurance and/or uncompensated time spent practicing 'defensive medicine'? Maybe. I don't know and I don't know if anyone has good figures on that.

I'm basically in the old school camp of trusting my doctor. I hate the new reality that you have to double and triple guess your medical professional and out research them at home. So, I'm pretty much in favor of doctors. However, I've found, in discussing healthcare reform with doctors that a distressing number of them have the attitude that passing the medical boards did not simply entitle them to practice medicine and make an above average income. They felt somehow ripped off if that achievement did not entitle them to, literally, be rich. And many were not ashamed to say so directly.

I am suspcious that many doctors in private practice would have been just fine when the profit margins were fat but are struggling as increasing attention is devoted to costs. In short, they're in trouble because they want the up-side of being in business for themselves, but are **** poor businessmen and should probably go be Hospitalists or work for corporate clinic practices because they can't hack it as independents. For these individuals, I have zero sympathy. And I don't think we should enginieer our national healthcare delivery system to coddle their crap business practices in order to ensure their personal wealth.

[yermom]

ok, still not following...please explain. FWIW, I'm coming form the angle that NO hospital can deny help due to ability to pay or insurance...so still not getting it.

sure, for emergencies. what about if you have cancer?

[Skysooner]

The whole 'Dr's are going broke' thing fascinates me. While there are doctors who go broke due to malpractice suits, their number is miniscule and the total value of malpractice awards and the cost of defending malpractice suits is a pittance relative to physician income. In short: malpractice suits in and of themselves are meaningless unless you choose to practice medicine while drunk.
Now, the indirect cost of insurance and/or uncompensated time spent practicing 'defensive medicine'? Maybe. I don't know and I don't know if anyone has good figures on that.

I'm basically in the old school camp of trusting my doctor. I hate the new reality that you have to double and triple guess your medical professional and out research them at home. So, I'm pretty much in favor of doctors. However, I've found, in discussing healthcare reform with doctors that a distressing number of them have the attitude that passing the medical boards did not simply entitle them to practice medicine and make an above average income. They felt somehow ripped off if that achievement did not entitle them to, literally, be rich. And many were not ashamed to say so directly.

I am suspcious that many doctors in private practice would have been just fine when the profit margins were fat but are struggling as increasing attention is devoted to costs. In short, they're in trouble because they want the up-side of being in business for themselves, but are **** poor businessmen and should probably go be Hospitalists or work for corporate clinic practices because they can't hack it as independents. For these individuals, I have zero sympathy. And I don't think we should enginieer our national healthcare delivery system to coddle their crap business practices in order to ensure their personal wealth.

I don't know why this would be, but it is true of many small businesses. People are great at what they do but terrible at business. I work in portfolio optimization at a mid-size North American producer, and I see it every day. More businesses are blown apart by bad financial management every day.

[okie52]

sure, for emergencies. what about if you have cancer?

Isn't that an emergency?

[KantoSooner]

It is, but one you can toddle on home to die from. ERs are not required to even start you on your six month chemo/radiation course. Only to tell you that the huge lump in your belly will kill you soon and to tell you you'd better do something about it.

Now, if you're unconscious, with your arm hanging by a thread of tissue from your shoulder, they'll sew it back on for you and pump a few units of blood into you and infuse you with antibiotics.