Two new FB committments

[NorthernIowaSooner]

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-football-notebook-sooners-pick-up-commitments-from-juco-tight-end-isaac-ijalana-alabama-de-dwayne-orso/article/3905789

Fighting off the big schools again. Hopefully diamonds in the rough.

I hate to join the people that nitpick over the other schools that were recruiting these guys but the list for these two is pretty sorry.

Orso didn't have any offers from a school outside the Sun Belt or Conference USA other than us. Ijalana had offers from Illinois, Akron, Bowling Green and maybe Utah State. Not an impressive list for either.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Orso looks like he is going to be great. According to ESPN, OU has received a commitment from Sifrin as well. No other site has that commitment down.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Orso looks like he is going to be great. According to ESPN, OU has received a commitment from Sifrin as well. No other site has that commitment down.

I'm wondering if he isn't projected as an OL by our staff. Just depends on whether he is a 6'6 bean pole or not.

[Soonerjeepman]

Orso looks like he is going to be great. According to ESPN, OU has received a commitment from Sifrin as well. No other site has that commitment down.

why do you say that?

[dwarthog]

He looked athletic enough, along with being raw in the short clip I was able to watch. He does appear to have size which as they say you can't coach.

I wonder if he's like Tapper, relatively new to the game?

[Soonerjeepman]

true, has the size. I'm usually not into "star" ratings, etc...I do look at who else is recruiting him, because honestly their coaches evaluate talent as well and if he's on their list then that is a good sign. I suppose since 4 of OU's 5 star guys from 2011 didn't pan out the coaches are going a different route.

[SoonerorLater]

Stole one right out from under Middle Tennessee.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Another two-star recruit nabbed by Jerry Montgomery. So glad we gave Jackie Shipp his walking papers.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Dwayne-Orso-154279

The tight end must be of the blocking variety. Eight whole receptions this season.
http://www.cccaastats.org/sports/fball/2013-14/players/isaacijalanafnji

[Ruf/Nek7]

why do you say that?

First off, he is versatile. He could be an end in the 3-4/3-3-5 or he could move down into a 2technique in a 4-3.

2. He has quickness and an explosive first step. He will have to learn our style of defense where some DL are assigned to penetrate to the heels and find the ball. In his video, he just goes straight into the backfield. Either way, this guy looks to have some great speed for his size.

3. He looks very difficult to block. He uses his size and frame very well and enforces his will on OLinemen.

Who knows the story behind the kid and why he has fallen through the cracks but i fully expect him to gain some attention now and i hope the $EC does not come calling. Either way, those are my observations about Orso's prospects.

[SoonerorLater]

Another two-star recruit nabbed by Jerry Montgomery. So glad we gave Jackie Shipp his walking papers.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Dwayne-Orso-154279

The tight end must be of the blocking variety. Eight whole receptions this season.
http://www.cccaastats.org/sports/fball/2013-14/players/isaacijalanafnji

Even though he was from Alabama Nick Saban probably just didn't have the skill set to properly evaluate him.

[8timechamps]

Orso is going to play DE. Montgomery said he wants his DEs big, like Tapper.

I know most people love to critisize players because they don't have the stars next to their name, but I never buy into that. Outside of a few 5 star and 4 star guys, there's it's a crap shoot.

Anyway, Orso should be pretty stout in this defense. I doubt he'll see the field for at least a year, but at 250 pounds, he's still got a good 10 pounds left to add. As an aside (for the star lovers), Orso has received a ton of recent interest from Mississippi State and Auburn. I doubt an offer will come now, but there's more to a recruit than a star or two and who offers.

Ijalana is projected to play a Millard type role, but again I think this was a depth pick up. Don't know a ton about him, but he is not being brought in to catch passes.

[8timechamps]

Another two-star recruit nabbed by Jerry Montgomery. So glad we gave Jackie Shipp his walking papers.


Yeah, because look at all the studs Shipp brought in. Also, it wasn't that long ago that folks were flipping out because of how bad our defensive line looked going into this season. Next complaint?

[cleller]

I heard them discussing these two on The Animal today, pointing out that we beat out schools like Akron, Toledo, W. Kentucky, stuff like that.

I know the star system isn't what its cracked up to be, but it still sounds ominous.

[Scott D]

I heard them discussing these two on The Animal today, pointing out that we beat out schools like Akron, Toledo, W. Kentucky, stuff like that.

I know the star system isn't what its cracked up to be, but it still sounds ominous.

to be fair, the guys on the Animal are just one step away from broadcasting from a ham radio in someone's basement in terms of being sports talk radio hosts. So they really don't have much room to talk.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Yeah, because look at all the studs Shipp brought in. Also, it wasn't that long ago that folks were flipping out because of how bad our defensive line looked going into this season. Next complaint?

The DL hasn't exactly been a bright spot even with us dropping to 3 guys. We have some stout ends, but still way too much push up the middle on us. The thing is, if this guy is a DE what in the world is anyone complaining about? DE is the one position we've PROVEN over and over that we can snag unheralded guys and turn them into 1st team Big 12 players.

[Scott D]

The DL hasn't exactly been a bright spot even with us dropping to 3 guys. We have some stout ends, but still way too much push up the middle on us. The thing is, if this guy is a DE what in the world is anyone complaining about? DE is the one position we've PROVEN over and over that we can snag unheralded guys and turn them into 1st team Big 12 players.

dude, OU recruited them, clearly they aren't any good ;)

[Scott D]

And I heard the guys on the Animal had two other offers, one for Drive-Thru at Sonic and one for PA Announcer at a used car dealership.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

Hard to believe .......

I was just looking at our roster at the seniors. As far from elite as we've been this year, it's scary what we could look like next year with who wont be there any longer. A few bright spots on defense with underclassmen for sure, but 4 or 5 years of less than steller recruiting is showing itself

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Hard to believe .......

I was just looking at our roster at the seniors. As far from elite as we've been this year, it's scary what we could look like next year with who wont be there any longer. A few bright spots on defense with underclassmen for sure, but 4 or 5 years of less than steller recruiting is showing itself

What? The only senior on defense we aren't immediately ready to replace is Colvin. Cortez Johnson is decent, but is more of an athlete than a football player. I can't tell much difference between Julian Wilson and Hayes/Lynn.

On offense, the key losses are Ikard and Millard. I really wish we'd get in the habit of starting future centers at guard so that we don't have to go through the pain of breaking in a new center. Millard is just a rare talent that we can't replace.

[Snrinhouston]

Orso is going to play DE. Montgomery said he wants his DEs big, like Tapper.

I know most people love to critisize players because they don't have the stars next to their name, but I never buy into that. Outside of a few 5 star and 4 star guys, there's it's a crap shoot.

Anyway, Orso should be pretty stout in this defense. I doubt he'll see the field for at least a year, but at 250 pounds, he's still got a good 10 pounds left to add. As an aside (for the star lovers), Orso has received a ton of recent interest from Mississippi State and Auburn. I doubt an offer will come now, but there's more to a recruit than a star or two and who offers.

Ijalana is projected to play a Millard type role, but again I think this was a depth pick up. Don't know a ton about him, but he is not being brought in to catch passes.

Respectfully disagree. It's true that not all four and five star players live up to the hype (Jarmarkus McFarland). And not all two star players (Sam Bradford) are "also-rans". However, over the long haul (all things other things being equal) would you really be indifferent about whether your class averaged 4+ stars verses 2.5 stars?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Respectfully disagree. It's true that not all four and five star players live up to the hype (Jarmarkus McFarland). And not all two star players (Sam Bradford) are "also-rans". However, over the long haul (all things other things being equal) would you really be indifferent about whether your class averaged 4+ stars verses 2.5 stars?

If we consistently fielded teams with a chance at the national title I wouldn't care if they averaged -82.1 stars.

[SoonerorLater]

Respectfully disagree. It's true that not all four and five star players live up to the hype (Jarmarkus McFarland). And not all two star players (Sam Bradford) are "also-rans". However, over the long haul (all things other things being equal) would you really be indifferent about whether your class averaged 4+ stars verses 2.5 stars?

Actually Bradford was a 5.7 3 star by Rivals so he was scratching a 4 star rating. When people talk about finding unheralded but future stars this is the kind of diamonds in the rough I think of, high 3 star guys. Very few 2 star players are going to sniff greatness. Some will but the probability is low enough that it isn't a worthwhile strategy.

There is a reason Nick Saban keeps going after those 4 and 5 star players. There is also a reason they keep winning championships. It's not a coincidence.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I remember when we were landing a lot more 4 and 5 star recruits and everyone was complaining how those players were prima donnas, entitlement issues, viral to the locker room etc. People wanted lower stars that were excited to be at ou and be developed. Now it seems maybe that's what they are doing and ppl still aren't happy.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Actually Bradford was a 5.7 3 star by Rivals so he was scratching a 4 star rating. When people talk about finding unheralded but future stars this is the kind of diamonds in the rough I think of, high 3 star guys. Very few 2 star players are going to sniff greatness. Some will but the probability is low enough that it isn't a worthwhile strategy.

There is a reason Nick Saban keeps going after those 4 and 5 star players. There is also a reason they keep winning championships. It's not a coincidence.

Actually it is. It was amazing to me that Wisconsin has put just as many 1st -3rd round OL into the NFL as Alabama yet most were 3 stars. As a matter of a fact, when you see the list it is amazing how much bias is shown towards schools that "recruit well".

In the last 6 years, these are the schools that have had more than 2 OL taken in the 1st 3 rounds of the NFL draft
Total (1st Round)
Alabama 6 (4) - 2 5*, 2 4*, 2 3*
Wisconsin 6 (3) - 1 4*, 5 3*
USC 5 (3) - 2 5*, 2 4*, 1 3*
Oklahoma 4 (2) - 1 4*, 2 3*, 1 0*
Baylor 3 (2) - 1 4*, 2 2*
Florida 3 (2) - 3 4*
Illinois 3 (0) - 1 3*, 2 2*

Now tell me you don't see bias towards teams that "recruit well" in that data set.

Here are the rest of my comments:

1. Heh, you don't expect the rankings bias to be this bad but there it is. Teams that are not considered recruiting powers are skewed down regardless of how much talent they sling into the pros.
2. Alabama is kind of weird. They tend to have a lot of guys from the same class go in the 1st round and then have others with none.
3. Wisconsin doesn't take many OL at all. Looking through their classes they take 2 per year with one big 5 recruit class every 4. Near as I could tell, 40% of their recruited OL in this sample ended up in the first 3 rounds.
4. There are several jucos in there that typically have higher rankings than the schools average (our 4* and 1 3* are jucos as well as Baylors 4*)
5. One of USC's 4*s was the lowest rated guy in their class behind 3 5*s (they didn't get drafted)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

For the record, these are the totals

4 5* (Alabama, USC)
11 4* (Florida then Alabama/USC)
11 3* (Wisconsin, OU/Alabama)
4 2* (Illinois/Baylor)
1 0* OU

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Actually Bradford was a 5.7 3 star by Rivals so he was scratching a 4 star rating. When people talk about finding unheralded but future stars this is the kind of diamonds in the rough I think of, high 3 star guys. Very few 2 star players are going to sniff greatness. Some will but the probability is low enough that it isn't a worthwhile strategy.

There is a reason Nick Saban keeps going after those 4 and 5 star players. There is also a reason they keep winning championships. It's not a coincidence.

Bradford was bumped up from a 5.5 to a 5.7 when we landed him. Also, as we've been through before, you will field a better team using 4* and 5* players if you are allowed massive attrition. This is because higher ranked guys tend to be better athletes than lower ranked guys. The problem is that just because they are better athletes doesn't mean that they can learn coverages or crisp routes or be tough enough to take on a lineman and make a tackle. However, if you are allowed high attrition you can dump the guys who aren't very good and replace them with a new crop.

Recruiting 3*s is a different proposition. What you are doing is taking guys who have great football skills and projecting whether you can increase their athleticism to play at the next level. Assuming they meet that minimum bar you can do so much more with them since they understand the game of football (complex coverages, weird blitzes, etc). Historically, these are the guys that we have done our best with -> the rocky calmuses, the teddy lehmans, the derrick straits, the mark claytons, the dan codys. Where we've been wildly erratic is with trying to get great athletes to learn to play the game of football.

[SoonerorLater]

Bradford was bumped up from a 5.5 to a 5.7 when we landed him. Also, as we've been through before, you will field a better team using 4* and 5* players if you are allowed massive attrition. This is because higher ranked guys tend to be better athletes than lower ranked guys. The problem is that just because they are better athletes doesn't mean that they can learn coverages or crisp routes or be tough enough to take on a lineman and make a tackle. However, if you are allowed high attrition you can dump the guys who aren't very good and replace them with a new crop.

Recruiting 3*s is a different proposition. What you are doing is taking guys who have great football skills and projecting whether you can increase their athleticism to play at the next level. Assuming they meet that minimum bar you can do so much more with them since they understand the game of football (complex coverages, weird blitzes, etc). Historically, these are the guys that we have done our best with -> the rocky calmuses, the teddy lehmans, the derrick straits, the mark claytons, the dan codys. Where we've been wildly erratic is with trying to get great athletes to learn to play the game of football.

To my thinking the value of having 4 and 5 star players on the field is clear. You are absolutely 100% correct that some of these guys will be fails for various reasons but 2 and 3 star guys will be also ....and at a higher rate. Yes it helps the Alabama's of the world to grayshirt but if this is a legal and effective strategy any coach that wants his team to win should be doing everything within the rules to make that happen.

The best example I could give would be USC - Stanford Saturday Night. USC despite getting wacked with scholarship losses and lacking much depth won with a core group of big time highly recruited 4 and 5 star players. They won because they were just better and more gifted athletes.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Yeah, and texass beat Oklahoma State because they have all those 4 and 5 star players. Oh, hang on.

btw, what's usc's record against Stanford lately.

[birddog]

I remember when we were landing a lot more 4 and 5 star recruits and everyone was complaining how those players were prima donnas, entitlement issues, viral to the locker room etc. People wanted lower stars that were excited to be at ou and be developed. Now it seems maybe that's what they are doing and ppl still aren't happy.

You forgot a small tidbit. A lot of those people were saying they would like to have lower star players that wanted to play at Oklahoma, native okies that care about the success of the program and will work their tails off because of their passion for OU football. Big difference compared to a 4 or 5 star player from Ohio or new jersey.

[birddog]

Or a 2/3 star from kansas

[SoonerorLater]

Yeah, and texass beat Oklahoma State because they have all those 4 and 5 star players. Oh, hang on.

btw, what's usc's record against Stanford lately.

Right but coaching counts too. The best of all possible worlds is great coaching and great players. That's what we need to be shooting for. Kiffin was a lousy coach. He is gone. Mack Brown....well he's Mack Brown. We will never win another Championship until we have the best, most gifted players and a coach who can motivate (intimidate if necessary) these players to play at 100%. To do this you have to win head to head recruiting battles with the best teams in the country. Consistently.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Two stars, no stars, four stars...whatever. The point is, we are getting few quality players in the most important area of the game: the line, both sides.

Alabama builds their teams from the inside out, placing a premium on their linemen. We do the opposite, getting highly ranked wide receivers and defensive backs, building from the outside in.

I won't bother to tell you which way is working. The records of late speak for themselves.

Everyone is all jacked up that we ran for 400+ versus Iowa State. Who gives a crap? Iowa State is awful. They have one win this season (over 2-8 Tulsa). They suck.

Some third team tailback from Baylor jacked our D-line for 180+. And, you think we should be celebrating about not recruiting more highly regarded linemen?

We are reaping Bob Stoops' and his coaching staff's obsession with setting offensive records with this damn spread offense. It was the downfall of Nebraska. It was the downfall of Texas. And, now, we are in the same spider web of stupidity.

We won a national championship with no-name receivers like Curtis Fagan, Damian Mackey, Andre Woolfolk, and Antwone Savage. What we need is linemen. Quality linemen again on both sides of the ball.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

To my thinking the value of having 4 and 5 star players on the field is clear. You are absolutely 100% correct that some of these guys will be fails for various reasons but 2 and 3 star guys will be also ....and at a higher rate. Yes it helps the Alabama's of the world to grayshirt but if this is a legal and effective strategy any coach that wants his team to win should be doing everything within the rules to make that happen.

The best example I could give would be USC - Stanford Saturday Night. USC despite getting wacked with scholarship losses and lacking much depth won with a core group of big time highly recruited 4 and 5 star players. They won because they were just better and more gifted athletes.

1. This isn't how I remember the game unfolding. I remember it opening with a fumble on the opening drive on a big play and then USC ripping off 3 scoring drives (Stanford had 1) to make it 17-7. I then remember Stanford clawing back to tie it while throwing an INT in the end zone and missing a field goal. And then USC finishing it off on the next to last series. In other words it was a road game where Stanford gave away 17 points and lost by 3 because of painful turnovers. We've done the same thing on the road multiple times when we were much better than our opponents.

2. If Bob Stoops did what Saban is doing with attrition, I'd stop my support for him. 18 year old kids shouldn't pay for a coaches' evaluation mistakes. And although the SEC will fight it tooth and nail, at some point in the near future they are going to make scholarships be 4 year entities and penalize these guys for this.

3. There is no evidence that 3*s fail at a greater rate than 4-5*s at OU. The attrition is almost exactly the same across the board. There is also no evidence that higher rated players are better than lower rated players at certain positions -> QB, OL, and CB are the key ones here.

4. One of the things that I see consistently from high star guys is a lack of discipline. These guys have been able to use athleticism their entire lives and have never needed it. Unfortunately, discipline isn't something that can be learned overnight either. Thus we have been plagued by breakdowns (especially at safety), that cost us points and then they KEEP costing us points. What you see from lower tier guys is one breakdown in a series and then it is immediately fixed (see Sanchez looking into the backfield).

5. The last thing that needs to be considered is that every year, the NCAA reduces practice time. Even with the NFL reducing practice time this last year, they probably spend about 10x more time on football than college kids. In other words, on the college level you just can't afford to take kids who are super athletic but unskilled at any complicated position on the field. It is almost always going to be to your benefit to take the technically sound lesser guy over the athletic freak. The bonuses from this are myriad but the primary one is having people who know what is going on in the position to help their teammates. So while you as a coach can't talk to Player Y from January 1st until Spring Practice, you can instruct Player Z that you are counting on him to be a great leader and to help the development of Player Y.

[Tear Down This Wall]

You want to know what the truth is? I think Bob Stoops - like Mack Brown - is afraid to hire assistants who might get in his face and challenge him.

I think he's lost his edge. I don't think any of the assistants have any edge left either. We don't need some pansy offensive line coach whose whole career has been built around the fa*ggoty spread offense. And, we don't need defensive line coaches from schools who aren't sniffing titles. Michigan hasn't won a Big 10 title since 2004; and, yet, we raided them for their DL coach. Embarrassing.

Is that what we are building toward - turning the program from a contender into an also ran, as has been done at Michigan?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

We won a national championship with no-name receivers like Curtis Fagan, Damian Mackey, Andre Woolfolk, and Antwone Savage. What we need is linemen. Quality linemen again on both sides of the ball.

No offense but we also had no name linemen as well. The only named guys we had were linebackers, safeties, tight ends, and a quarterback (who were predominantly no names). This is the wrap up of that 98 class that had rocky and roy in it. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/recruiting/news/1998/02/10/recruiting_wrapup/

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You want to know what the truth is? I think Bob Stoops - like Mack Brown - is afraid to hire assistants who might get in his face and challenge him.

I think he's lost his edge. I don't think any of the assistants have any edge left either. We don't need some pansy offensive line coach whose whole career has been built around the fa*ggoty spread offense. And, we don't need defensive line coaches from schools who aren't sniffing titles. Michigan hasn't won a Big 10 title since 2004; and, yet, we raided them for their DL coach. Embarrassing.

Is that what we are building toward - turning the program from a contender into an also ran, as has been done at Michigan?

Honestly, I think the problem is the other way around. I think he gives his assistants too much room for error in evaluation. It takes 3-4 years before he figures out that the coach has been pulling in duds. The last problem is that every time we change coaches at a position we lose 1-2 years of recruiting classes at that position.

[8timechamps]

Respectfully disagree. It's true that not all four and five star players live up to the hype (Jarmarkus McFarland). And not all two star players (Sam Bradford) are "also-rans". However, over the long haul (all things other things being equal) would you really be indifferent about whether your class averaged 4+ stars verses 2.5 stars?

We're arguing apples and oranges. Would I want a roster that averaged 2 or 2.5 star kids? Nope. However, that's not even close to what is happening at OU. Bringing in a couple of low star recruits is status quo for the Sooners. I get your point, and agree with it, but like I said, outside of a few elite players every year, there isn't a lot that separates many of the others.

[8timechamps]

Two stars, no stars, four stars...whatever. The point is, we are getting few quality players in the most important area of the game: the line, both sides.

Alabama builds their teams from the inside out, placing a premium on their linemen. We do the opposite, getting highly ranked wide receivers and defensive backs, building from the outside in.

I won't bother to tell you which way is working. The records of late speak for themselves.

Everyone is all jacked up that we ran for 400+ versus Iowa State. Who gives a crap? Iowa State is awful. They have one win this season (over 2-8 Tulsa). They suck.

Some third team tailback from Baylor jacked our D-line for 180+. And, you think we should be celebrating about not recruiting more highly regarded linemen?

We are reaping Bob Stoops' and his coaching staff's obsession with setting offensive records with this damn spread offense. It was the downfall of Nebraska. It was the downfall of Texas. And, now, we are in the same spider web of stupidity.

We won a national championship with no-name receivers like Curtis Fagan, Damian Mackey, Andre Woolfolk, and Antwone Savage. What we need is linemen. Quality linemen again on both sides of the ball.

I think there is a change happening along both sides of the line. However, it's not going to happen overnight.

What you can't do though, is compare how Alabama builds it's program compared to OU. First and foremost, Bama doesn't follow the same recruiting guidelines. Then there's the fact that not a single program in the country has been able to do what Alabama has done.

Not sure why I'm trying to converse with you about this, as it seems nothing about the program is up to your standards.

[OUster]

Orso just started playing football. He's been quoted as saying he really didn't start getting "it" until midway through this season. In the mold of Tapper, he thought basketball was his future until this year. He's raw, big and athletic. Plus, even though many of the board's football aficionados do not concur with our obviously incompetent OU's coaching staff, I'll bet the staff has a clue as to whether Orso seems to have the aptitude to understand the game. Our staff has always had to dig deeper. That's been their m.o. for...always. I think I'll trust them on this one, too. Anyone want wager this kid becomes at least a solid contributor before he graduates?

[Salt City Sooner]

First off, he is versatile. He could be an end in the 3-4/3-3-5 or he could move down into a 2technique in a 4-3.

2. He has quickness and an explosive first step. He will have to learn our style of defense where some DL are assigned to penetrate to the heels and find the ball. In his video, he just goes straight into the backfield. Either way, this guy looks to have some great speed for his size.

3. He looks very difficult to block. He uses his size and frame very well and enforces his will on OLinemen.

Who knows the story behind the kid and why he has fallen through the cracks but i fully expect him to gain some attention now and i hope the $EC does not come calling. Either way, those are my observations about Orso's prospects.
So much for that. South Carolina has now decided that they would like to have this 2 stars' signature.

[Ruf/Nek7]

So much for that. South Carolina has now decided that they would like to have this 2 stars' signature.

And he is expected to visit the Iron Bowl. Auburn may be next to offer. Not looking good. And when or if he signs elsewhere, then all the naysayers will come out and throw their "great lost another great talent to $EC" chant.

[picasso]

Wow the SEC is after him?
Where you at now Gipper?