The Problem with OU -- A SicEm Perspective

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm going to start with the talent issue:

Texas HS coaches absolutely love and respect Briles. He has their respect, and they funnel recruits his way. Briles has a very strong vision. He's also a genius at evaluating and developing talent. For example, the first recruit he put his sights on at Tech was Wes Welker who wasn't really recruited by any of the top-tier programs. In fact, Tech didn't even really want the guy but Briles insistent on it. He coached and recruited Case Keenum in both high school and college. He recruited Kevin Kolb and developed him. He recruited and developed RGIII...NickFlo....and now Bryce Petty. And that doesn't even include all of the other offensive talent he has signed -- many of which were true "diamonds in the rough."

Briles first started with winning recruiting battles for some 3* talent with mid-major conferences and teams like Tech. He built the Baylor program with those kinds of guys and is now routinely recruiting 4* talent. He is even starting to pick up 5* recruits here and there. We're right smack dab in one of the most if not the most fertile recruitment ground in the country.

18 year old kids aren't what they used to be. They don't give a **** about tradition (as evidenced by their love for horrible looking and crazy uniform combos) like recruits used to. Those kids are about the 'here and now' which is something that Briles not only preaches but it's fundamental to his personality. Briles isn't a man who dwells on the past (with one exception). Recruits don't give a **** that OU has the longest winning streak in the country back in the 50's. They don't give a **** if UT won a NCG almost a decade ago. They care about the here and now. If Baylor is the hot place to be at then the recruits are going to flock to Baylor in the same way that Aggie has been beating out UT for talent.

That could end up being bad news for OU if OU can't find a way to win. Once upon a time, top talent in Texas went to either UT, OU, or to a lesser extent Aggie. They passed up Baylor because we never showed we could compete. That's what it's about....they want to compete. Tradition doesn't mean **** anymore, but there are a LOT of old blue-haired fans at the blue chip schools who convince themselves that they are ENTITLED to the best recruits and to winning simply because they have a long tradition of doing so. That mentality is killing both OU and UT.

Now, the coaching problems at OU should be evident to everyone, but OU has a real issue at developing QB's and, yes, I include Landry on that list. Bob Stoops used to be a young innovative coach who did whatever it took to win. He has become conservative and complacent, and that complacency has created a culture of excuses that has trickled down from the head office to the players themselves. He refuses to hold his coaches accountable, and he refuses to hold himself accountable. He displays none of the fire that was the hallmark of his early tenure at Baylor. This is essentially the same thing that has happened to Mack at UT; the difference between OU and UT is that Stoops is a much better coach than Mack which has masked the fact that OU has been declining right along with UT.

I desperately hope that OU gets its **** together (to the extent that it does't hurt us). The time are a changing and if OU doesn't change along with them then you're going to have a very difficult time moving forward.

[Temujin]

Now, the coaching problems at OU should be evident to everyone, but OU has a real issue at developing QB's and, yes, I include Landry on that list. Bob Stoops used to be a young innovative coach who did whatever it took to win. He has become conservative and complacent, and that complacency has created a culture of excuses that has trickled down from the head office to the players themselves. He refuses to hold his coaches accountable, and he refuses to hold himself accountable. He displays none of the fire that was the hallmark of his early tenure at Baylor. This is essentially the same thing that has happened to Mack at UT; the difference between OU and UT is that Stoops is a much better coach than Mack which has masked the fact that OU has been declining right along with UT.

There's a few things to take issue with in that post. Kids do care about those other things. But with the rules of the NCAA changing over the years to limit scholarships and rosters and such, the talent has evened out and allowed more teams to enter that upper-tier of competitiveness.

But the same teams that have always brought in the elite talent are still bringing in the elite talent. The difference is that you don't have a superstar waiting on the bench to replace the starting superstar anymore with those teams. Our defense is proof of that, as it's taken a dive with significant injuries or other tragedies, usually at the critical linebacker position - Ryan Reynolds, Travis Lewis, Austin Box, Corey Nelson, Jordan Phillips, etc. Other teams have the same issue as well, like Georgia on offense.

The problem with OU recruiting right now, IMO, is that guys like Saban have set the new standard on how to recruit. He's thoroughly scrutinized every rule and found ways to pump out more staff to assist in recruiting. And schools like UT and OU are figuring that out, but they're also a little behind, so there's some catching up to do. Assuming that OU keeps learning these lessons, they'll catch up and put themselves back into the picture for the elite recruits again. But you're right, complacency was part of that.

The funny part is what I left above. It reminds me of the "Opposite" episode of Seinfeld. At the end of the episode Elaine laments, "I know what's happening..." Jerry interrupts with, "No, don't say it!" and Elaine continues in horror, "I've become George! I'm George!"

I just imagined that scene and the paragraph above like that episode, but with Bob taking the part of Elaine and Mack being the reference to George. Now I'm sad.

[Mjcpr]

I can't really disagree with any of that unfortunately.

[REDREX]

We are taking advice from a team that is now 2-21 against us-----Lets call up UTEP and get their input

[70sooner]

The funny part is what I left above. It reminds me of the "Opposite" episode of Seinfeld. At the end of the episode Elaine laments, "I know what's happening..." Jerry interrupts with, "No, don't say it!" and Elaine continues in horror, "I've become George! I'm George!"

I was talking to somebody at work about the game, play calling, etc., and one of the last things I said, half jokingly, was that we were becoming Texas....

[soonergirlNeugene]

Texas is still the benchmark for flagship programs on the decline. We are in a rebuilding year, that is all.

[Snrinhouston]

We are taking advice from a team that is now 2-21 against us-----Lets call up UTEP and get their input

This is EXACTLY the type of smug, misguided comment that is OUs problem. The premise is "We are OU and historically we've been great. Therefore, we have nothing to learn from you, because you historically have been weak"

Well last night's game, and the next game weren't and won't be determined by what the two teams have historically done. In big games, OU is now regularly getting outcoached and out-executed, by teams that have out-recruited us. This will be the fourth time in five years that OU does not go to a BCS game. Its last BCS win came against mighty Uconn. What the hell do you think would happen if OU lines up against Bama, Stanford, or Ohio State? It would get destroyed, and the outcome would be clear midway through the 2nd quarter, if that long.

If OU wants to get back to the status of an elite team (because make NO mistake, it's not an elite team now) it's time for some fresh thinking and new leadership. Resting on the laurels of "don't tell me anything, we've got more Heisman winners and NCs than you" isn't cutting it.

[SicEmBaylor]

This is EXACTLY the type of smug, misguided comment that is OUs problem. The premise is "We are OU and historically we've been great. Therefore, we have nothing to learn from you, because you historically have been weak"

Well last night's game, and the next game weren't and won't be determined by what the two teams have historically done. In big games, OU is now regularly getting outcoached and out-executed, by teams that have out-recruited us. This will be the fourth time in five years that OU does not go to a BCS game. Its last BCS win came against mighty Uconn. What the hell do you think would happen if OU lines up against Bama, Stanford, or Ohio State? It would get destroyed, and the outcome would be clear midway through the 2nd quarter, if that long.

If OU wants to get back to the status of an elite team (because make NO mistake, it's not an elite team now) it's time for some fresh thinking and new leadership. Resting on the laurels of "don't tell me anything, we've got more Heisman winners and NCs than you" isn't cutting it.

I believe this to be 100% accurate.

[SicEmBaylor]

Texas is still the benchmark for flagship programs on the decline. We are in a rebuilding year, that is all.

If OU doesn't make major and fundamental changes, then it's always going to be a 'rebuilding' year and nothing more. This isn't OU's standard.

[REDREX]

This is EXACTLY the type of smug, misguided comment that is OUs problem. The premise is "We are OU and historically we've been great. Therefore, we have nothing to learn from you, because you historically have been weak"

Well last night's game, and the next game weren't and won't be determined by what the two teams have historically done. In big games, OU is now regularly getting outcoached and out-executed, by teams that have out-recruited us. This will be the fourth time in five years that OU does not go to a BCS game. Its last BCS win came against mighty Uconn. What the hell do you think would happen if OU lines up against Bama, Stanford, or Ohio State? It would get destroyed, and the outcome would be clear midway through the 2nd quarter, if that long.

If OU wants to get back to the status of an elite team (because make NO mistake, it's not an elite team now) it's time for some fresh thinking and new leadership. Resting on the laurels of "don't tell me anything, we've got more Heisman winners and NCs than you" isn't cutting it.---You act like this is the first time Baylor has ever been good and they have found a magic bullet---I can recall when Grant Teaff had Baylor doing well and what happened they sank back to the bottom of the league----They are having a good year they will not stay on top even if Briles is the best coach in the league.

[Widescreen]

We are taking advice from a team that is now 2-21 against us-----Lets call up UTEP and get their input

They're 2-1 against us the last 3 years which is far more relevant than what happened 30 years ago.

[Snrinhouston]

Texas is still the benchmark for flagship programs on the decline. We are in a rebuilding year, that is all.

There should never be a rebuilding year at OU, especially given what Bob is paid. What is the value or point of paying the premium to Bob? It's supposed to be for better recruiting, better player development, and better game planning. You can't always have an A+ team. But at OU (and when you make Stoops money) you'd better regularly be getting at least an A-, and NEVER slip below a B+. This team is a B- right now, and it could get worse.

[REDREX]

They're 2-1 against us the last 3 years which is far more relevant than what happened 30 years ago.

---OK I will take Oklahoma in the next 10 meetings head up ----Want to bet?

[cyclonesooner]

Maybe the current younger breed of high school coaches in Texas respect Briles, but I know plenty of the older guard who don't love and respect him (throw up) but detest him. I got to coach against him during his Stephenville heyday as he turned that program around and has done a great job of doing the same at Baylor. There were strong rumors of steroid use at Stephenville during his stay that I always believed to be true. Once, while standing by Briles during a scrimmage after an interception by his team, one of his players purposely blocked very intentionally our best linebacker in the back of his legs ending his career with a severe knee injury.
Art's reaction ?. He immediately ran over to his player, patting him on the back and praising him on what a great job he had done. Yeah, very respectful.

[SicEmBaylor]

---You act like this is the first time Baylor has ever been good and they have found a magic bullet---I can recall when Grant Teaff had Baylor doing well and what happened they sank back to the bottom of the league----They are having a good year they will not stay on top even if Briles is the best coach in the league.

Deflection. Rather than address the issues I brought up, you're responding to points that were neither made nor are germane to the conversation. Nonetheless...

1)No, I'm not forgetting the fact that Pappa Bear once had us as a respectable program in the SWC. That was back during the days of the f'n SWC and, as I just took some time to point out, nobody gives a **** when we're talking about the 'here and now.' I've always pointed out we were a respectable SWC team when people make comments like, "Baylor has always sucked." It is not historically accurate, but it's also not relevant.

2)I'm not at all acting like we've found the "magic bullet." I'm pointing out the success that can come from a coach that is innovative and has a clear offensive/defensive identity. That is in clear contrast to a coach that has become overly conservative and complacent.

3)I never suggested we would 'stay on top.' No team in the country can stay on top indefinitely. I don't even necessarily expect us to be on top this season (I think we lose at OSU). But, once again, this doesn't have a damned thing to do with anything I said.

tl/dr verison: This isn't about my mother f'n Bears -- this is about OU. I was just using us as means of contrast.

[Snrinhouston]

---You act like this is the first time Baylor has ever been good and they have found a magic bullet---I can recall when Grant Teaff had Baylor doing well and what happened they sank back to the bottom of the league----They are having a good year they will not stay on top even if Briles is the best coach in the league.

There is a Mark Twain quote you REALLY should read.

[SicEmBaylor]

Maybe the current younger breed of high school coaches in Texas respect Briles, but I know plenty of the older guard who don't love and respect him (throw up) but detest him. I got to coach against him during his Stephenville heyday as he turned that program around and has done a great job of doing the same at Baylor. There were strong rumors of steroid use at Stephenville during his stay that I always believed to be true. Once, while standing by Briles during a scrimmage after an interception by his team, one of his players purposely blocked very intentionally our best linebacker in the back of his legs ending his career with a severe knee injury.
Art's reaction ?. He immediately ran over to his player, patting him on the back and praising him on what a great job he had done. Yeah, very respectful.

Those steriod allegations are absolutely positively 100% false. It was nothing but a rumor started by a rival coaching staff to hurt the program and Briles and was completely and utterly unsubstantiated. There has never been a single shred of evidence ever even suggesting that any of his players were taking steroids...ever. An extensive investigation into the matter by the athletic governing body in Texas found absolutely.............nothing. Nadda....zip.

Either pony up some actual f'n evidence or stop peddling rumors like a blue haired bitch in a nursing home.

[REDREX]

There is a Mark Twain quote you REALLY should read.---I like the John Wooden quote "A lot of people have won one in a row"

[SicEmBaylor]

---OK I will take Oklahoma in the next 10 meetings head up ----Want to bet?

You're clearly too dense to understand that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Baylor. This is about the state of the program in general. Yes, you may win the next 10 meetings head up but how many national championships are you going to be competing for in that same time frame? It doesn't matter two ****s if you beat us 10/10 meetings if you aren't competing for Natty's. That's the whole f'n point. It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with us in any shape, form, or fahsion.

[REDREX]

You're clearly too dense to understand that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Baylor. This is about the state of the program in general. Yes, you may win the next 10 meetings head up but how many national championships are you going to be competing for in that same time frame? It doesn't matter two ****s if you beat us 10/10 meetings if you aren't competing for Natty's. That's the whole f'n point. It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with us in any shape, form, or fahsion.----I would watch who I called dense----And you may want to get spell check

[SicEmBaylor]

----I would watch who I called dense----And you may want to get spell check
Well, look, you guys do as you please. I hate to see it because I love OU almost as much as you all do (almost), but ultimately the fans will either demand change or they'll remain as complacent as the coaching staff.

You are not going to win another national championship under Stoops unless Stoops suddenly and uncharacteristically makes some rather major changes to how he coaches, who he hires, how he recruits, and who he starts.

That's just my opinion, but there it is for whatever it's worth.

[achiro]

I'm going to start with the talent issue:

Texas HS coaches absolutely love and respect Briles. He has their respect, and they funnel recruits his way. Briles has a very strong vision. He's also a genius at evaluating and developing talent. For example, the first recruit he put his sights on at Tech was Wes Welker who wasn't really recruited by any of the top-tier programs. In fact, Tech didn't even really want the guy but Briles insistent on it. He coached and recruited Case Keenum in both high school and college. He recruited Kevin Kolb and developed him. He recruited and developed RGIII...NickFlo....and now Bryce Petty. And that doesn't even include all of the other offensive talent he has signed -- many of which were true "diamonds in the rough."

Briles first started with winning recruiting battles for some 3* talent with mid-major conferences and teams like Tech. He built the Baylor program with those kinds of guys and is now routinely recruiting 4* talent. He is even starting to pick up 5* recruits here and there. We're right smack dab in one of the most if not the most fertile recruitment ground in the country.

18 year old kids aren't what they used to be. They don't give a **** about tradition (as evidenced by their love for horrible looking and crazy uniform combos) like recruits used to. Those kids are about the 'here and now' which is something that Briles not only preaches but it's fundamental to his personality. Briles isn't a man who dwells on the past (with one exception). Recruits don't give a **** that OU has the longest winning streak in the country back in the 50's. They don't give a **** if UT won a NCG almost a decade ago. They care about the here and now. If Baylor is the hot place to be at then the recruits are going to flock to Baylor in the same way that Aggie has been beating out UT for talent.

That could end up being bad news for OU if OU can't find a way to win. Once upon a time, top talent in Texas went to either UT, OU, or to a lesser extent Aggie. They passed up Baylor because we never showed we could compete. That's what it's about....they want to compete. Tradition doesn't mean **** anymore, but there are a LOT of old blue-haired fans at the blue chip schools who convince themselves that they are ENTITLED to the best recruits and to winning simply because they have a long tradition of doing so. That mentality is killing both OU and UT.

Now, the coaching problems at OU should be evident to everyone, but OU has a real issue at developing QB's and, yes, I include Landry on that list. Bob Stoops used to be a young innovative coach who did whatever it took to win. He has become conservative and complacent, and that complacency has created a culture of excuses that has trickled down from the head office to the players themselves. He refuses to hold his coaches accountable, and he refuses to hold himself accountable. He displays none of the fire that was the hallmark of his early tenure at Baylor. This is essentially the same thing that has happened to Mack at UT; the difference between OU and UT is that Stoops is a much better coach than Mack which has masked the fact that OU has been declining right along with UT.

I desperately hope that OU gets its **** together (to the extent that it does't hurt us). The time are a changing and if OU doesn't change along with them then you're going to have a very difficult time moving forward.
If this is true regarding recruiting, and kids really don't care about tradition then the recruiters need to constantly remind kids that at some point the great coaches end up getting offers from big boy schools that can afford a whole lot more than the small schools. The coach leaves and the school they went to because of the coach ends up back in the gutter. A big boy school has a much better chance of getting another coach to carry on the "tradition" if their coach leaves. Briles may be a Baylor guy through and through and stay regardless of money but if not, his days are very limited at Baylor.

[Snrinhouston]

---I like the John Wooden quote "A lot of people have won one in a row"

Yes, but I think you'll get more benefit from the Twain quote. It starts something like this, "It's better to remain..."

The large point you are missing or seem determined not to address is that OU (under Stoops leadership) has significantly fallen from a standard of excellence.

[SicEmBaylor]

If this is true regarding recruiting, and kids really don't care about tradition then the recruiters need to constantly remind kids that at some point the great coaches end up getting offers from big boy schools that can afford a whole lot more than the small schools.
From what I understand, recruiters already make a case very similar to what you already described. The reality is, we can match a hell of a lot of money. Not every small school can, but we can pony up if necessary if we felt it was worth it.

The coach leaves and the school they went to because of the coach ends up back in the gutter. A big boy school has a much better chance of getting another coach to carry on the "tradition" if their coach leaves. Briles may be a Baylor guy through and through and stay regardless of money but if not, his days are very limited at Baylor.
There's absolutely truth in that statement; however, I see no reason to believe that the next hire after Briles will automatically be some sort of disaster that will return us to the gutter. If Briles leaves the program in a respectable position, and we're able to offer enough money then we can get another good 'up and coming' coach just like we got Briles. Whether that coach will end up being a success or not can't be known one way or the other, but I have faith in our current administration, BOR, and AD to make the right decisions in ways that the old regime at Baylor did not.

[SicEmBaylor]

And keep in mind that I'm not saying OU is going to start losing every recruiting battle for 4 and 5*'s. Oklahoma will continue to get good talent, but the competition is going to become more difficult on the recruiting trail and they're going to start losing some battles they would never have lost in the past. There are already a few examples of this.

[Snrinhouston]

Well, look, you guys do as you please. I hate to see it because I love OU almost as much as you all do (almost), but ultimately the fans will either demand change or they'll remain as complacent as the coaching staff.

You are not going to win another national championship under Stoops unless Stoops suddenly and uncharacteristically makes some rather major changes to how he coaches, who he hires, how he recruits, and who he starts.

That's just my opinion, but there it is for whatever it's worth.


This is absolutely correct, though I wish it weren't so. I suspect that the root cause is that Stoops has been at OU too long, and made way too much money. There are rare breeds of coaches who don't lose the fire and drive after becoming extremely wealthy. I suspect Bob is not of that rare breed. Fine, he's like almost all the rest of us. But it's time for him to get his game back or pack it up.

[Scott D]

This thread amuses me the most today.

[colleyvillesooner]

Please tell me nobody read all of that bull****, right?

[SicEmBaylor]

This thread amuses me the most today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWINtUCshxY

[Scott D]

funny like a midget in a dog costume funny. Especially you. :)

[winout]

Stoops is definitely coasting at this point in his career. He's a good guy and will never be an embarrassment to OU but I'm afraid that isn't enough to be basically a football CEO.

I've read that he picks his kids up every day from school. Listen, I'm every bit as much a family man but that is a luxury to me and I'm not the CEO of a company. If you can do it knowing that the guys "back at the shop" are getting it done then fine. But, if it isn't getting it done then you need to work harder. That is why you are getting paid what you are. I guaran-dang-te-ya that Saban isn't picking his kids up at school. Heck he prolly doesn't even know their names. :D

As Sic'em pointed out, developing players is ultimately the key. How do you think Boise is able to compete? Stoops just isn't great at this on the O side of the ball. Hence the struggle to find a qb most of the time.

Thanks for the outside evaluation, Sic'em. I think you are mostly spot-on.

[aero]

I guess analyzing how or why a team wins or loses is all part of the fun of being a fan. To me, it's simply we didn't have the talent on the field to win. Maybe recruits haven't panned out. Maybe some injured players actually made some difference. Maybe some of both and more. I don't think complacency, head in the sand, old school methods, or any other such has much to do with it. Don't really like anyone preaching from their soapbox. Your days coming just like anyone else's. Enjoy it while you can. I'd say try to act like you've been there but that's what it would be, just an act. Cause you haven't. Otherwise you might not be the soothsayer you think you are. Notre Dame, Oklahoma, USC, tOSU, Bama, Miami, FSU, Fla, Texas, Nebraska, and others have all been the flavor of the decade and all have had their ups and downs. I can remember feeling like Miami was going to be in the title game every year. Same with USC, Florida, FSU,......etc. We were in the title game most of the first half of the 2000's. It's all cyclical. Fortunately for us, our lows haven't been that low and I expect good fortune (decent recruits, NO INJURIES, etc.) to smile on us again. Maybe next year. Or the year after. The sky actually isn't falling. It's just the way things go. And they've gone our way pretty good. For a long time. Hope you can rebound from your lows as well as us and have a tenth the success we've had.

[SicEmBaylor]

http://www.toomanymornings.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/no_country_for_old_men_tommy_lee_jones.jpg

[JLMSOONER]

So, this is the first down year for a Sooner team. We have lost a couple of games. True, we may lose more but still we are only down 2 at this point. Hell, even Okie State pulled off an upseyt or 2 qhwn they weren't suppose to. We knew going into this season that we wouldn't be strong. A good start and a win over ND gave us some confidence, but realistically we knew we were not going to an NC game. We lost to Baylor. It happens. They are a good team and played aggressive and confident. Good for them. I hope they have a great season. Hell, I even like their uni's. College football has parity.....to some extent. We have work and we need some changes, but we will be back. We have won a lot of games over the years and we will win a lot more. We won't go to the NC game every year and we won't win it every year we go. But, we will go and we will win. I'm guessing at the beginning of the season everyone hoped we would be undefeated at this point, but not many thought we would be. We will be back on top......BOOMER!!!!

[ashley]

Texas High School coaches general like Art, but they do not love him. Many don't know him and have never met him. Also, they do not funnel players his way. People may be surprised, but, coaches have very little impact on where their players go to college. The players and the parents make this decision.
I coached for forty years and had lots of guys play college football and few ever even asked my opinion. The kid is going and not the coach, that's the coaches view.

[Scott D]

Don't ruin SicEm's fantasy world ashley.

[OU_Sooners75]

Lol...so Briles and Baylor are now recruiting like A&M? Does that include the super $ecret recruiting tatics?

[GDC]

I'm getting pretty tired of the mediocre results for OU lately, but I'm already totally sick of the bloated-head syndrome afflicting Johnny Come lately fans like Baylor's and Tech's, just to name a few. They're a lot easier to ignore when OU is stepping on their heads. I do hope Bob pulls his head out of his A$$ and gets OU back where they belong or packs his bags and lets someone else feed the monster.

[picasso]

We heard this in '05 and the '06 team starting getting better as the season progressed. Then what happened? We made a run in '07 and '08.
Some of you folks need a hobby.

[Eielson]

the coaching problems at OU should be evident to everyone, but OU has a real issue at developing QB's and, yes, I include Landry on that list.

This pretty sums up the thread in my opinion. Exaggeration. OU can't develop quarterbacks, huh? A couple Heisman trophy winners (Bradford and White) and a Heisman trophy runner-up (Heupel) would beg to differ. Bell is bad...really bad...but the sky isn't falling.

We're more on the verge of being truly elite than we've been in a long time. We've got Mike back. We need to cut loose Heupel at the end of the year, and move forward with a different QB (Thomas or Knight), and we're right back in contention. As bad as you seem to think Landry was, I think OU wins on the road against the #5 team in the country if he was playing the other night.

[Scott D]

I never thought I'd see a group that would "almost" want Chuck Long back to developing the QB position.

[Eielson]

As for Baylor being a recruiting power...

...what?

It sounded good when you were saying it, but Briles hasn't gotten a single 5-star recruit. You guys bring in as many 2-stars (usually more) than 4-stars.

[picasso]

This pretty sums up the thread in my opinion. Exaggeration. OU can't develop quarterbacks, huh? A couple Heisman trophy winners (Bradford and White) and a Heisman trophy runner-up (Heupel) would beg to differ. Bell is bad...really bad...but the sky isn't falling.

We're more on the verge of being truly elite than we've been in a long time. We've got Mike back. We need to cut loose Heupel at the end of the year, and move forward with a different QB (Thomas or Knight), and we're right back in contention. As bad as you seem to think Landry was, I think OU wins on the road against the #5 team in the country if he was playing the other night.
He's said this before and it seems to be his mantra.
This coming from a guy who has probably never worn pads or tasted grass at 7am in August.
Just because a QB doesn't go to the NFL does not mean we don't develop QB's.
It reminds me of the stupid Monken comment about Landry.

[Eielson]

Honestly, I'm going to withdraw my get rid of Heupel statement. I really just think it's the QB situation. The offense was fine last year.

[Plexis22]

If OU doesn't make major and fundamental changes, then it's always going to be a 'rebuilding' year and nothing more. This isn't OU's standard.

A couple more seasons like this and Stoops should be fired. Sooner nation will not tolerate this much longer. I think short term we need a better QB and O-line and a new offensive coordinator.

[Sabanball]

The SEC. That's the problem in two words.

[colleyvillesooner]

Honestly, I'm going to withdraw my get rid of Heupel statement. I really just think it's the QB situation. The offense was fine last year.

I don't think he can call plays for the mobile quarterback. No feel for it. If that is the type of offense we are going to run, brig in someone who is really good at it

[I Am Right]

Who cares what you think

[Johnny Utah]

The SEC. That's the problem in two words.

In that the success of the SEC has hurt OU in recruiting?

[Sabanball]

In that the success of the SEC has hurt OU in recruiting?


To some degree, I would say yes.

According to Rivals, here's the last 5 years team ranking for OU:

2013 = #15
2012 = #11
2011 = #14
2010 = #7
2009 = #13

That's an average ranking of #12. Your program is currently ranked #37 for 2014. Those kinds of rankings are not a disaster, but not much better than mid-tier SEC numbers. Combine that with a soft style of play and there you go. Gotta have chicken to make chicken salad.

You can pooh pooh recruiting rankings as not important and not an exact science, etc. etc, but they are without a doubt one of the best indicators of a program's future performance--unless you're Texas...;-)

[SoonerorLater]

To some degree, I would say yes.

According to Rivals, here's the last 5 years team ranking for OU:

2013 = #15
2012 = #11
2011 = #14
2010 = #7
2009 = #13

That's an average ranking of #12. Your program is currently ranked #37 for 2014. Those kinds of rankings are not a disaster, but not much better than mid-tier SEC numbers. Combine that with a soft style of play and there you go. Gotta have chicken to make chicken salad.

You can pooh pooh recruiting rankings as not important and not an exact science, etc. etc, but they are without a doubt one of the best indicators of a program's future performance...unless you're Texas...;-)

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to tell you how wrong you are.

[Sabanball]

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to tell you how wrong you are.

Now I absolutely agree with THAT!

[Position Limit]

To some degree, I would say yes.

According to Rivals, here's the last 5 years team ranking for OU:

2013 = #15
2012 = #11
2011 = #14
2010 = #7
2009 = #13

That's an average ranking of #12. Your program is currently ranked #37 for 2014. Those kinds of rankings are not a disaster, but not much better than mid-tier SEC numbers. Combine that with a soft style of play and there you go. Gotta have chicken to make chicken salad.

You can pooh pooh recruiting rankings as not important and not an exact science, etc. etc, but they are without a doubt one of the best indicators of a program's future performance--unless you're Texas...;-)


Thanks for another reality check. This sucks on 5 different layers. I've been pretty hard on heupel but still **** that guy still. Imma go drink some more now. I do admire alabama very very much. Style of play and attitude and everthing. I hope to see you guys and fsu in the big game. They impress the hell out of me too.

[Johnny Utah]

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to tell you how wrong you are.

So what are you waiting for? Flame away! I'm curious as to what your response is.

[Scott D]

Or they are an indicator of the flavor of the month in ranking status.

[Tear Down This Wall]

We are taking advice from a team that is now 2-21 against us-----Lets call up UTEP and get their input

Dial up Kansas, while you're at it.

Baylor has been lucky to catch a couple of banged up Sooner squads in 2011 and 2013. It means nothing. We've seen many Johnny-Come-Latelys ebb-and-flow. Colorado and Kansas State come to mind. TCU beat us in 2005; it means nothing now.

The fan bases were no less sufferable during those time periods. I'm sure there were plenty of Buffalo, Wildcat, and Frog fans wetting their pants, the same as some Baylor fans, with the belief that they'd finally caught up to and passed Oklahoma.

The thing you have to remember is that the common denominator with fans of schools who suddenly and briefly have success, is that they don't know how to handle it.

Also, you have to recall that we're talking about a school that has so little pull on even a regional scene that they were threatening lawsuits if Texas were to break up the Big 12. Why? Because they knew full well they'd go nowhere based on the their cache.

Look at Boise State. For all of their puff and blow, they still ended up in the MWC. Baylor could one day join them once we and/or Texas wake up and move to a better conference. In fact, it's probably not a matter of if we do, but when we do.

And, there will be be Baylor, with it's two wins over our injury-depleted 2011 and 2013 squads, running to the courthouse because they don't want to face the facts - their ultimate destination when all of the conference shuffling ends will be in the C-USA, MWC, or some other mid-major outpost.

[OkieThunderLion]

but OU has a real issue at developing QB's and, yes, I include Landry on that list
Couldn't disagree more.

QB play has struggled in '01, '05, '09, '13. (see a pattern there?) Otherwise it's probably been better than any school in the country, since Stoops' arrival.

[OkieThunderLion]

The SEC. That's the problem in two words.

Agree.

OU's slip started in '05 and that was shortly after the SEC started establishing their dominance.

[Okie35]

Now its the talent but to be honest... you don't need that much talent when you have good coaches. If we had more talent w/ Josh as OC then his faults won't look as bad but since we don't, Josh is being exposed.

As far as Baylor, they won't go undefeated anyway... I think they lose in Stillwater. Either way, they'll still be 5th (maybe 4th) come Sunday night. Which is kind of a slap in the face, lol oh well.

Also, I do think we get too much respect if (according to the updated BCS standings) we stay in the top 15.


The SEC isn't a problem and never was... we just need to recruit better backs or at least power backs between the tackles... and better linemen on both sides of the ball. If we can go w/o any major injuries in a season would be great too. Injuries happen but major ones are killing us.

Oh yea and tight ends ... what is up w/ never using them w/ Josh at the helm?

[tooslow]

The SEC. That's the problem in two words.

I agree. We should've left for the SEC in place of Missouri. In just 2 short years, A&M and Mizzou has jumped to the upper tier of the SEC. These 2 teams have a COMBINED 1 Big XII Championship. That is amazing. So imagine OU or another elite Big XII team moving to the SEC? ;)

[SoonerorLater]

So what are you waiting for? Flame away! I'm curious as to what your response is.

what are you talking about?

[birddog]

The SEC. That's the problem in two words.
We don't play in the sec.

[Pricetag]

Oh yea and tight ends ... what is up w/ never using them w/ Josh at the helm?I don't think it's fair to pin that on Josh. The only time we really used the position was when we had Trent Smith and Jermaine Gresham. Joe Jon Finley caught a few balls, but beyond that, pretty much nada. It's like if we don't have a superstar, we don't bother.

[soonerhubs]

Is the SEC a conference or a university, like the Citadel?


I'm just checking so that I can more effectively buy into the Koolaid tasting, pathetic, and watered-down champion-chasing fan base that makes up that coalition of schools.

... And to think, Sabanball almost had to start cheering for another team last night. Keep that weather vane oiled and ready, t-shirt fan.

[Johnny Utah]

what are you talking about?

I must have missed your sarcasm ...it was late (for me).

[SoonerMarkVA]

This pretty sums up the thread in my opinion. Exaggeration. OU can't develop quarterbacks, huh? A couple Heisman trophy winners (Bradford and White) and a Heisman trophy runner-up (Heupel) would beg to differ. Bell is bad...really bad...but the sky isn't falling.

We're more on the verge of being truly elite than we've been in a long time. We've got Mike back. We need to cut loose Heupel at the end of the year, and move forward with a different QB (Thomas or Knight), and we're right back in contention. As bad as you seem to think Landry was, I think OU wins on the road against the #5 team in the country if he was playing the other night.

Not with the same O-line, he wouldn't.

[FaninAma]

Next year is an even numbered year which means we will win the Big 12 as we do in most even numbered years.

[Okie35]

We don't play in the sec.

Exactly


I don't think it's fair to pin that on Josh. The only time we really used the position was when we had Trent Smith and Jermaine Gresham. Joe Jon Finley caught a few balls, but beyond that, pretty much nada. It's like if we don't have a superstar, we don't bother.

Gresh wasn't a superstar he was a gem turned superstar... Hanna played beyond his "projected" talent too. I think we can make tight ends better but choose not to.


Not with the same O-line, he wouldn't.

he might his pocket presence got a lot better his last year he would move better in the pocket even when it was collapsing... remember the florida state game? he took some hits in the beginning but for the most part he did alright ... he can throw, every now and then he'd throw a bad ball but he had a cannon for the most part... the reason why we kept throwing long balls is because there were receivers open deep actually... Landry would've hit almost all of them... either way Blake had time to run up the middle for yards and move the chains (like against ND) but chose not to... it would've been nice to see Knight in once we considered the game "over"

[Sabanball]

I agree. We should've left for the SEC in place of Missouri. In just 2 short years, A&M and Mizzou has jumped to the upper tier of the SEC. These 2 teams have a COMBINED 1 Big XII Championship. That is amazing. So imagine OU or another elite Big XII team moving to the SEC? ;)

Yes you should have. We wanted OU in our conference, but David Boren instead wanted to preserve the OU-OSU series and in doing so ignore the desire of probably 80% of your fan base. you guys would have immediately competed for SEC championships. Yearly Bama/OU/LSU games would have been epic. What could have been....it would have been great for OU and college football.

[Eielson]

As much as I'd love to beat up on LSU, the thought of playing them every year makes me want to vomit.

[Scott D]

As much as I'd love to beat up on LSU, the thought of spending any time in Baton Rouge makes me want to vomit.

;)

[birddog]

Well, look, you guys do as you please. I hate to see it because I love OU almost as much as you all do (almost), but ultimately the fans will either demand change or they'll remain as complacent as the coaching staff.

You are not going to win another national championship under Stoops unless Stoops suddenly and uncharacteristically makes some rather major changes to how he coaches, who he hires, how he recruits, and who he starts.

That's just my opinion, but there it is for whatever it's worth.

Are you still sayin you never liked ou, just hated em less than osu?

[SoCalBigRed]

We are taking advice from a team that is now 2-21 against us-----Lets call up UTEP and get their input

This.

KSU was making the same boastful claims not too long ago. The LosuRS have their every 5 or 6 years of a season or two of smack. 2 former Big XII doormats are making the SEC look silly at times.

Whatever, Baylor. You're having a great run right now. But, you're still Baylor and we're still OU.

Those that have a problem with the smug ego. Tough. So what... you have scoreboard right now. We'll talk again in 5 years, when your a @#$%ing doormat again and we're still OU.

[PrideMom]

Class is acting like you have been there before....I have seen that puffing from inferior schools before, and eventually it all unravels......

[OUmillenium]

Couldn't disagree more.

QB play has struggled in '01, '05, '09, '13. (see a pattern there?) Otherwise it's probably been better than any school in the country, since Stoops' arrival.

^ I agree. QB play is rarely the reason we don't have a good/great season. Kickers and defense have hurt us as much or more in the past. This year QB play is the #1 issue though. If Knight is the man, then we are set for a few years at that position with KT competing and recruits coming in.

[Sooner in Tampa]

This is EXACTLY the type of smug, misguided comment that is OUs problem. The premise is "We are OU and historically we've been great. Therefore, we have nothing to learn from you, because you historically have been weak"

In big games, OU is now regularly getting outcoached and out-executed, by teams that have out-recruited us. This will be the fourth time in five years that OU does not go to a BCS game. Its last BCS win came against mighty Uconn.


^^^THIS

This should sink in...4 out 5 yrs we have NOT been to a BCS bowl game...if we are so stinking powerful and mighty...how does that happen?

Listen, the sky is not falling and we don't suck...we just are not anywhere near elite right now. We could not go on the road and beat any number of teams...and we haven't been able to for a couple of years. (ND was a quality road win, but make no mistake about it, they are not elite)

Oklahomey (some remember him, he used to post here regularly...he has moved onto Land Thieves) had a very similar post over there...many fans agree that it will be a couple of years before we get back to a BCS bowl game...I'm not sure about that.

It seems odd to be having this discussion after Bob becomes the winningest coach at OU and we handled KSU on the road...but, it needs to be discussed. None of us know what next year holds for our program, but I have to admit...it damn sure doesn't look like we will be in the same class as the Bama, Stanford, or LSU class.

#8 is not in our near future...and that is pretty damn sad for me.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Oklahoma went from averaging 17 points per game in 1998 to 36 points per game in 1999. Things can change quickly, but changes have to be made for that to happen. Coach Stoops has made changes into indirectly firing Venables, definitely firing Patton, Kittle and Shipp over the past couple of seasons along with going to more mobile QBs and implementing a QB run game. Granted, changes aren't always immediate, but I think OU is on the right track here.

Given OU's level of youth on defense, OU has one of the best young defenses in the nation and if Phillips wouldn't have gotten injured, it was the best young defense in the nation. Offensively, everything got derailed from what OU was working towards and preparing for in spring and fall drills, because Knight wasn't quite read in the passing game, so the Sooners had to roll with Bell for awhile, which WAS the right decision for the Tulsa and Notre Dame games.

The only failure here is the coaching staff SHOULD have pulled Bell when it was clear that he wasn't the answer in the Texas game. And maybe, just maybe Knight would have performed well in that game and even if not, maybe he would have been better prepared going forward and OU would have been in better position to take on Baylor.

Knight got completed over 50% of his passes in the Iowa St. game and then over 60% of his passes in his first collegiate road start against Kansas St. in a tight game. He was already a damn good runner, but it looks like he is starting to get his passing accuracy going as well, which has been his only true weakness. Barring a ridiculous number of injuries, OU will have the best defense in the conference over the next few years and it won't even be close and the offense just might take off under Knight and maybe, just maybe, this offensive style for Oklahoma will keep Oklahoma from being a complete now show offensively in bowl games. I am confident that will be the case as OU will no longer live and die by whether the QB has an on day in the passing game or not thanks to the zone read and having a better overall run game and run-blocking than what was previously in place.

[I Am Right]

Hey SucEm, go enjoy your win, wait a minute, never mind.

[King Crimson]

i see the fact we aren't in the shotgun on every 3rd and 3 a step forward.

if Baylor is the vanguard of truth, hooray?

i'm not quite as certain this is the end of the world....i admit the pokes will probably run us but i've seen a lot of positives from this OU team. i saw this as an 8 or 9 win team from the onset.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The Pokes will beat the crap out of us...and, enjoy every second of it.

Don't worry, though...we're recruiting a host of 2-star offensive and defensive linemen to make this thing more competitive in the future.

[BoulderSooner79]

The Pokes will beat the crap out of us...and, enjoy every second of it.



Enjoying it? That's just wrong - it's not like we're Texas or something.

[diverdog]

I'm going to start with the talent issue:

Texas HS coaches absolutely love and respect Briles. He has their respect, and they funnel recruits his way. Briles has a very strong vision. He's also a genius at evaluating and developing talent. For example, the first recruit he put his sights on at Tech was Wes Welker who wasn't really recruited by any of the top-tier programs. In fact, Tech didn't even really want the guy but Briles insistent on it. He coached and recruited Case Keenum in both high school and college. He recruited Kevin Kolb and developed him. He recruited and developed RGIII...NickFlo....and now Bryce Petty. And that doesn't even include all of the other offensive talent he has signed -- many of which were true "diamonds in the rough."

Briles first started with winning recruiting battles for some 3* talent with mid-major conferences and teams like Tech. He built the Baylor program with those kinds of guys and is now routinely recruiting 4* talent. He is even starting to pick up 5* recruits here and there. We're right smack dab in one of the most if not the most fertile recruitment ground in the country.

18 year old kids aren't what they used to be. They don't give a **** about tradition (as evidenced by their love for horrible looking and crazy uniform combos) like recruits used to. Those kids are about the 'here and now' which is something that Briles not only preaches but it's fundamental to his personality. Briles isn't a man who dwells on the past (with one exception). Recruits don't give a **** that OU has the longest winning streak in the country back in the 50's. They don't give a **** if UT won a NCG almost a decade ago. They care about the here and now. If Baylor is the hot place to be at then the recruits are going to flock to Baylor in the same way that Aggie has been beating out UT for talent.

That could end up being bad news for OU if OU can't find a way to win. Once upon a time, top talent in Texas went to either UT, OU, or to a lesser extent Aggie. They passed up Baylor because we never showed we could compete. That's what it's about....they want to compete. Tradition doesn't mean **** anymore, but there are a LOT of old blue-haired fans at the blue chip schools who convince themselves that they are ENTITLED to the best recruits and to winning simply because they have a long tradition of doing so. That mentality is killing both OU and UT.

Now, the coaching problems at OU should be evident to everyone, but OU has a real issue at developing QB's and, yes, I include Landry on that list. Bob Stoops used to be a young innovative coach who did whatever it took to win. He has become conservative and complacent, and that complacency has created a culture of excuses that has trickled down from the head office to the players themselves. He refuses to hold his coaches accountable, and he refuses to hold himself accountable. He displays none of the fire that was the hallmark of his early tenure at Baylor. This is essentially the same thing that has happened to Mack at UT; the difference between OU and UT is that Stoops is a much better coach than Mack which has masked the fact that OU has been declining right along with UT.

I desperately hope that OU gets its **** together (to the extent that it does't hurt us). The time are a changing and if OU doesn't change along with them then you're going to have a very difficult time moving forward.

For the life of me I cannot believe someone has not taken you to task for the bolded part. Sicem remind me again who are the last 10 winners of NC are and how many of those schools are not traditional powerhouses?

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Because he is a Baylor alum. Blind squirrel finds a nut and now he's an authority.

[CatfishSooner]

SMB sicem *****

[diverdog]

Because he is a Baylor fan. Blind squirrel finds a nut and now he's an authority.

Fify

Bottom line is that he rooted for another team against OU. Therefore he is dead to me. :friendly_wink:

[soonerfan69]

OU's biggest problem is and has been they are soft in the trenches on both sides of the ball

[Eielson]

OU's biggest problem is and has been they are soft in the trenches on both sides of the ball

That's always a nice cop-out. Here's the stats for our last two games:

Rushing offense: 96 carries for 706 yards (7.35 ypc)
Rushing defense: 56 carries for 127 yards (2.27 ypc)

[soonerhubs]

... And thus the demise continues. ;)

[Breadburner]

Where is this anus now......????

[soonerhubs]

I'm more interested in the "insight" from Sabanball.

[aero]

http://www.toomanymornings.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/no_country_for_old_men_tommy_lee_jones.jpg

uh huh

[colleyvillesooner]

Classic bump.

[OUmillenium]

I wonder who the conference fave will be next year?:cocksure::cocksure::cocksure:

[SicEmBaylor]

What a great job! OU looked phenomenal tonight, and it was an absolute pleasure watching that game. Congratulations to you all!

[Dallas]

Where is this anus now......????

Agreed..

No where, that is where.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

What a great job! OU looked phenomenal tonight, and it was an absolute pleasure watching that game. Congratulations to you all!

Thanks, bro! Good to hear from you.

[SoonerForLife92]

What's your perspective on the fiesta bowl?

[SicEmBaylor]

Agreed..

No where, that is where.

If anyone ever sees him, they should mention this thread.

[SicEmBaylor]

What's your perspective on the fiesta bowl?
I think we've been over the fact that there isn't a direct correlation here, but I've argued that ridiculous crap all I'm going to.

In any case, to answer your question, I think it was a **** show from kickoff to the end. Our players looked like **** and their undisciplined play with a bajillion penalties killed whatever chances we had. That's on them. I also blame Briles for his bull**** flirting with the Texas job in the week leading up to the game. That crap has a way of permeating the ranks from top to bottom. Baylor gave him a fantastic contract, and he should have honored that contract and commitment by unequivocally shutting down any talk about him taking the UT job by saying it was neither offered nor would he accept if it were to be and that he has no interest in any job other than the one he has. Done deal.

Even Mulkey, who is known for being extremely loyal to Baylor, took a thinly veiled swipe at Briles. She said she prayed he'd stay because she loves him, but then she went on this mini-rant about how Baylor is loyal to and treats all of its coaches well -- in exchange, she expects Baylor coaches to do their job and show the same kind of loyalty to Baylor. *boom*

So good for her.

[SicEmBaylor]

It also appeared, from my POV, that the staff told the defense to ease off a bit from being overly aggressive (as they have been all year). Maybe the staff was afraid of targeting penalties....I don't know....but they looked like they were treating UCF with kid gloves.

[Jacie]

It took Bob three tries to win the Fiesta Bowl and the two losses are considered huge upsets while the win was expected.

The no-win situation seems to have an adverse affect on how a team performs in these games.

The positive for Baylor is Briles won't come back in the spring feeling complacent.

[SoonerForLife92]

I think we've been over the fact that there isn't a direct correlation here, but I've argued that ridiculous crap all I'm going to.

In any case, to answer your question, I think it was a **** show from kickoff to the end. Our players looked like **** and their undisciplined play with a bajillion penalties killed whatever chances we had. That's on them. I also blame Briles for his bull**** flirting with the Texas job in the week leading up to the game. That crap has a way of permeating the ranks from top to bottom. Baylor gave him a fantastic contract, and he should have honored that contract and commitment by unequivocally shutting down any talk about him taking the UT job by saying it was neither offered nor would he accept if it were to be and that he has no interest in any job other than the one he has. Done deal.

Even Mulkey, who is known for being extremely loyal to Baylor, took a thinly veiled swipe at Briles. She said she prayed he'd stay because she loves him, but then she went on this mini-rant about how Baylor is loyal to and treats all of its coaches well -- in exchange, she expects Baylor coaches to do their job and show the same kind of loyalty to Baylor. *boom*

So good for her.


Well my comment was mostly just ****ing with you, but I agree with what you said. It was really dissapointing to see the conference champ lay an egg. But then the beatdown in NO happened so I had a short memory.

[TXBOOMER]

Boomer Sooner!

[thecrimsoncrusader]

For the life of me I cannot believe someone has not taken you to task for the bolded part. Sicem remind me again who are the last 10 winners of NC are and how many of those schools are not traditional powerhouses?


You can actually go back further than that. Ultimately, you have to go all the way back to the Colorado/Georgia Tech "shared" national title in 1990 or whenever it was for when a non-traditional power won it (I group the Florida based teams with the traditional powers since the have NCs albeit largely attributed to a 22 million population base). There are some constants in the universe and one is, little league football programs like Baylor and Oklahoma St. will never win a national championship in the modern era.

[Sooners78]

You can actually go back further than that. Ultimately, you have to go all the way back to the Colorado/Georgia Tech "shared" national title in 1990 or whenever it was for when a non-traditional power won it (I group the Florida based teams with the traditional powers since the have NCs albeit largely attributed to a 22 million population base). There are some constants in the universe and one is, little league football programs like Baylor and Oklahoma St. will never win a national championship in the modern era.

I wouldn't say never. If OSU had gotten to the championship game 2 yrs ago as many people would like to have seen, their high powered offense would have given LSU fits.

[winout]

I wouldn't say never. If OSU had gotten to the championship game 2 yrs ago as many people would like to have seen, their high powered offense would have given LSU fits.

What? They didn't give ISU fits but they would LSU?

[BoulderSooner79]

What? They didn't give ISU fits but they would LSU?

They did give ISU fits -- and 5 turnovers, very weird game. I think OSU would have moved the ball well against LSU just as WVU did. But they would have had problems handling LSU power run game and all the big plays LSU consistently generated to win. They beat Bama and everyone else that way, but Bama got a mulligan to make up for it.

[SoonerForLife92]

What? They didn't give ISU fits but they would LSU?

That's your response.... Really...?

Remember the little team that could this year? The one that didn't give texas or baylor fits, or even much of a challenge for the latter, but then they went and punched arguably the best team in the nation right in the mouth? Just thought i'd remind you.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I wouldn't say never. If OSU had gotten to the championship game 2 yrs ago as many people would like to have seen, their high powered offense would have given LSU fits.

That's the thing though. They don't even get there in most cases. And Oregon, who falls in the "Colorado/Georgia Tech" category in terms of history (even less than Georgia Tech if you go way way back), they got their and got beat by LSU, a more traditional power, despite dominating in the regular season.

[BoulderSooner79]

That's the thing though. They don't even get there in most cases. And Oregon, who falls in the "Colorado/Georgia Tech" category in terms of history (even less than Georgia Tech if you go way way back), they got their and got beat by LSU, a more traditional power, despite dominating in the regular season.

It was Auburn with Cam Newton that won the title against the Ducks. And it was very close, as it was tied at 19 until Auburn kick a FG as time expired. The Ducks were a run-first team and that played into Auburn's strengths on D. Auburn had a very poor pass defense, but the Ducks passing game wasn't good enough to exploit it.

[winout]

That's your response.... Really...?

Remember the little team that could this year? The one that didn't give texas or baylor fits, or even much of a challenge for the latter, but then they went and punched arguably the best team in the nation right in the mouth? Just thought i'd remind you.

Yeah, Really! You are comparing UT and Baylor who played for the XII championship on the last game of the year with ISU who were 3-6 in the conf that year.

[SoonerForLife92]

Yeah, Really! You are comparing UT and Baylor who played for the XII championship on the last game of the year with ISU who were 3-6 in the conf that year.

So you are saying the offense that dominated (at least statistically) a top 5 stanford's defense, wouldn't be able to do the same to lsu's overrated defense, simply because they were looking past the iowa state game. I very much doubt that.

[winout]

So you are saying the offense that dominated (at least statistically) a top 5 stanford's defense, wouldn't be able to do the same to lsu's overrated defense, simply because they were looking past the iowa state game. I very much doubt that.

Stanford wasn't close to 5 in defense....... try #26. LSU was #2. Thanks for playing. http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

[SoonerForLife92]

Stanford wasn't close to 5 in defense....... try #26. LSU was #2. Thanks for playing. http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

Learn how to read. I said a top 5 stanford's defense. Not stanford's top 5 defense. Stanford was #4 so obviously their defense was doing something right.

And lsu having the #2 defense, in a league with no offense where the "game of the year" consisted of field goals, means absolutely nothing to me.

Oh and you're welcome it's been a joy so far.

[picasso]

There should never be a rebuilding year at OU, especially given what Bob is paid. What is the value or point of paying the premium to Bob? It's supposed to be for better recruiting, better player development, and better game planning. You can't always have an A+ team. But at OU (and when you make Stoops money) you'd better regularly be getting at least an A-, and NEVER slip below a B+. This team is a B- right now, and it could get worse.
Har har har.

[picasso]

I agree. We should've left for the SEC in place of Missouri. In just 2 short years, A&M and Mizzou has jumped to the upper tier of the SEC. These 2 teams have a COMBINED 1 Big XII Championship. That is amazing. So imagine OU or another elite Big XII team moving to the SEC? ;)
Where's this guy at?

[humblesooner]

[QUOTE=SicEmBaylor;4307320] Baylor gave him a fantastic contract, and he should have honored that contract and commitment by unequivocally shutting down any talk about him taking the UT job by saying it was neither offered nor would he accept if it were to be and that he has no interest in any job other than the one he has. Done deal.

QUOTE]

Whether it is true or not?
Welcome to 11 win seasons, young 'un.
College Football contracts are not worth the paper they are written on for the universities.
Top programs, like UT, OU, Bama, USC, Ohio St, ... deal with this all the time.

[PLaw]

Please tell me nobody read all of that bull****, right? I got through most of it but he lost me when he started preaching about Bob being complacent. Let's see, nine BCS bowls in 15 years. Let that sink in Sic'em. Cotton Bowls included, does BU have more than five in their entire history? Bob has taken strong steps with his staff over the past 2-3 years that have addressed complacency. If you don't think so, then you better sit down before the 2015 signings. Sic'em, you're a good guy and all, but you know very little about championship football over many decades of success. You're borrowing some of our hardware boy and you better get ready because we are coming to get it back in '14.

Boomer!

[SicEmBaylor]

I got through most of it but he lost me when he started preaching about Bob being complacent. Let's see, nine BCS bowls in 15 years. Let that sink in Sic'em. Cotton Bowls included, does BU have more than five in their entire history? Bob has taken strong steps with his staff over the past 2-3 years that have addressed complacency. If you don't think so, then you better sit down before the 2015 signings. Sic'em, you're a good guy and all, but you know very little about championship football over many decades of success. You're borrowing some of our hardware boy and you better get ready because we are coming to get it back in '14.

Boomer!

I desperately want someone to tell me how Baylor is at all relevant to any comments I make regarding OU UNLESS I'm doing a 1:! comparison. Aside from the fact that I'm a Baylor fan, there's this absurd notion that I'm in someway speaking on behalf of or personifying the Baylor program itself. I'm just a fan making an observation -- it doesn't have a damned thing to do with how many bowl games Baylor has won compared to OU. It's ludicrous to say the least.

Having said all of that, I've offered a partial mea culpa here. Stoops pulled a fantastic season out of his hat when it looked like it would be a dumpster fire. Hell, all and all, I think Stoops and OU did an overall better job than we did this season not withstanding the CC.

You have to understand that when I said that Stoops has become, seemingly, complacent over the last few years that it doesn't really say much to point out all of his bowl victories from the start his career until now. I also never said that Stoops has trouble getting bowl eligible. I never suggested he had trouble winning non-BCS bowls. So, again, that doesn't have much to do with my point.

I saw more grit and determination from Stoops in the Sugar Bowl than I've seen from him in a long time. I stand by what I had said throughout this thread which is that Stoops is one of the best coaches in the nation but he has grown too conservative and a bit complacent. That doesn't mean he can't change, but that just seems to be the way he has run OU for the past handful of years. Overly conservative. I'm certainly not trying to insult OU, and it certainly has nothing to do with what Baylor does or does not do (unless making a 1:1 comparison).

[picasso]

I desperately want someone to tell me how Baylor is at all relevant to any comments I make regarding OU UNLESS I'm doing a 1:! comparison. Aside from the fact that I'm a Baylor fan, there's this absurd notion that I'm in someway speaking on behalf of or personifying the Baylor program itself. I'm just a fan making an observation -- it doesn't have a damned thing to do with how many bowl games Baylor has won compared to OU. It's ludicrous to say the least.

Having said all of that, I've offered a partial mea culpa here. Stoops pulled a fantastic season out of his hat when it looked like it would be a dumpster fire. Hell, all and all, I think Stoops and OU did an overall better job than we did this season not withstanding the CC.

You have to understand that when I said that Stoops has become, seemingly, complacent over the last few years that it doesn't really say much to point out all of his bowl victories from the start his career until now. I also never said that Stoops has trouble getting bowl eligible. I never suggested he had trouble winning non-BCS bowls. So, again, that doesn't have much to do with my point.

I saw more grit and determination from Stoops in the Sugar Bowl than I've seen from him in a long time. I stand by what I had said throughout this thread which is that Stoops is one of the best coaches in the nation but he has grown too conservative and a bit complacent. That doesn't mean he can't change, but that just seems to be the way he has run OU for the past handful of years. Overly conservative. I'm certainly not trying to insult OU, and it certainly has nothing to do with what Baylor does or does not do (unless making a 1:1 comparison).

Dude, you're in over your head. You pounced at low point for us this season with sensationalism and uninformed bull****.
You still haven't admitted it was stupid or that you were completely wrong.
Bob Stoops' after lunch barking spiders know more football than you.
It's comical.

[DenverSooner751]

I got through most of it but he lost me when he started preaching about Bob being complacent. Let's see, nine BCS bowls in 15 years. Let that sink in Sic'em. Cotton Bowls included, does BU have more than five in their entire history? Bob has taken strong steps with his staff over the past 2-3 years that have addressed complacency. If you don't think so, then you better sit down before the 2015 signings. Sic'em, you're a good guy and all, but you know very little about championship football over many decades of success. You're borrowing some of our hardware boy and you better get ready because we are coming to get it back in '14.

Boomer!

I desperately want someone to tell me how Baylor is at all relevant to any comments I make regarding OU UNLESS I'm doing a 1:! comparison. Aside from the fact that I'm a Baylor fan, there's this absurd notion that I'm in someway speaking on behalf of or personifying the Baylor program itself. I'm just a fan making an observation -- it doesn't have a damned thing to do with how many bowl games Baylor has won compared to OU. It's ludicrous to say the least.

Having said all of that, I've offered a partial mea culpa here. Stoops pulled a fantastic season out of his hat when it looked like it would be a dumpster fire. Hell, all and all, I think Stoops and OU did an overall better job than we did this season not withstanding the CC.

You have to understand that when I said that Stoops has become, seemingly, complacent over the last few years that it doesn't really say much to point out all of his bowl victories from the start his career until now. I also never said that Stoops has trouble getting bowl eligible. I never suggested he had trouble winning non-BCS bowls. So, again, that doesn't have much to do with my point.

I saw more grit and determination from Stoops in the Sugar Bowl than I've seen from him in a long time. I stand by what I had said throughout this thread which is that Stoops is one of the best coaches in the nation but he has grown too conservative and a bit complacent. That doesn't mean he can't change, but that just seems to be the way he has run OU for the past handful of years. Overly conservative. I'm certainly not trying to insult OU, and it certainly has nothing to do with what Baylor does or does not do (unless making a 1:1 comparison).

I think all the Briles is a genius and HS coaches love him pretty much set the tone for you to be considered as having made a comparison.

[picasso]

Stoops is definitely coasting at this point in his career. He's a good guy and will never be an embarrassment to OU but I'm afraid that isn't enough to be basically a football CEO.

I've read that he picks his kids up every day from school. Listen, I'm every bit as much a family man but that is a luxury to me and I'm not the CEO of a company. If you can do it knowing that the guys "back at the shop" are getting it done then fine. But, if it isn't getting it done then you need to work harder. That is why you are getting paid what you are. I guaran-dang-te-ya that Saban isn't picking his kids up at school. Heck he prolly doesn't even know their names. :D

As Sic'em pointed out, developing players is ultimately the key. How do you think Boise is able to compete? Stoops just isn't great at this on the O side of the ball. Hence the struggle to find a qb most of the time.

Thanks for the outside evaluation, Sic'em. I think you are mostly spot-on.
Struggle to find a QB most of the time?
Other than this season and '05 please explain.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Dude, you're in over your head. You pounced at low point for us this season with sensationalism and uninformed bull****.
You still haven't admitted it was stupid or that you were completely wrong.
Bob Stoops' after lunch barking spiders know more football than you.
It's comical.

Fortunately for him, he's not the only one that completely overreacted. Hell, it's hard to blame anyone. If you listen to talk radio that's all you hear is overreaction. Who's the latest greatest team of all time that will never lose a game again this week? Andrew Luck is Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning all rolled into one.

That said, sic'em keeps coming on here and equivocating what he said when it's all out there for us to read. Just admit that you were wrong and overreacted bro. At least Soonernhouston, who I was convinced was somebody's troll, admitted that he was wrong.

[yankee]

Whenever I see this thread title, I just can't help but start guffawing at SicEm and then in turn, Baylor. Well done sir.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Just because sic 'em's a Baylor fan doesn't mean he doesn't know football.

Thousands of posts of evidence means he doesn't know football.

[KantoSooner]

C'mon guys, everyone gets a bit over the top when their team starts to win unexpectedly. Then they become savants. You've seen this with people from Oregon who ten years ago couldn't identify a football in a line up against soccer balls, billiard balls and their own balls. You've seen it with people from Lousiana who, frankly, are generally too incoherent from drink to speak English, or any other recognized language. And you've seen it from people from that area North of St. Louis and East of the Mississippi River whose teams have not been relevant since the interwar years of the 1930's.
Things are about to settle back to long term equilibrium. The recent madness shall, too, pass.

[badger]

Shameless plug: Baylor lost in basketball last night. BF.com meltdown highlights here. (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?181414-2013-14-College-basketball-meltdowns&p=4313071#post4313071)

[OU_Sooners75]

Seems like the problem with OU is they wanted to play and beat Alabama and laugh at Baylor when the lose to a crappy UCF team...lol

[SoCalBigRed]

Whenever I see this thread title, I just can't help but start guffawing at SicEm and then in turn, Baylor. Well done sir.

Ditto.

I think I've responded in kind to a few of his takes. Nice guy and all. Knows the game... but, its like my (12 y/o) daughter telling me how to change the oil in the car, you know? :encouragement:

[OkieThunderLion]

Clown thread, bro.

[OUmillenium]

Heres what I think about what Baylor thinks about the Sooners...wait who cares what Baylor thinks about anything.

Get a new tarp

[Curly Bill]

The way some of you guys are overreacting I'd think SicEm must have done the dirty with your old ladies, instead of positing that perhaps Stoops wasn't in fact the second coming of Knute Rockne.

Bob obviously did a great job getting the team ready for a big bowl game, SicEm offered a mea culpa, now you guys still can't get over the butt-hurt. It's pretty funny considering this is just a message board, and SicEm did not in fact do the dirty with your old ladies, but simply questioned whether Stoops had perhaps got a bit complacent. Hell, I was doing the same thing. Or....did I really do the dirty with your old lady?

[picasso]

Yeah it's just a msg board so how dare we respond to such a thing with an opinion of our own?
And nice old lady jabs. You doing the circuit on the Jersey Pike next week?
I doubt you or Sic'em have the minerals to lay wood to anyones "old lady."

[Curly Bill]

Yeah it's just a msg board so how dare we respond to such a thing with an opinion of our own?
And nice old lady jabs. You doing the circuit on the Jersey Pike next week?
I doubt you or Sic'em have the minerals to lay wood to anyones "old lady."

You butt-hurt too bro?

[picasso]

You butt-hurt too bro?

No. I'm just fighting the worst cold I've ever had in my life.
What's your problem?
I never thought Stoops was Knute Rockne or Jerry Stiller but I'm also not a reactionary dweeb that cries when the chips are down. Stoops made big changes to his staff, pulled off a couple wins this past month and apparently shifted our recruiting tide, all things some of guys have griped about quite a bit. I'd just like to see some folks sack up and give credit when it's due.
Is that too hard? Kurt Russell movie person?

[Curly Bill]

No. I'm just fighting the worst cold I've ever had in my life.
What's your problem?
I never thought Stoops was Knute Rockne or Jerry Stiller but I'm also not a reactionary dweeb that cries when the chips are down. Stoops made big changes to his staff, pulled off a couple wins this past month and apparently shifted our recruiting tide, all things some of guys have griped about quite a bit. I'd just like to see some folks sack up and give credit when it's due.
Is that too hard? Kurt Russell movie person?

Sorry about the cold. I wouldn't say anyone who was down on Stoops was being reactionary, unless you wanna call several years of watching slipping football fortune and speaking out about it being reactionary.

That being said: Stoops did make some of the changes that needed to be made, and for that I applaud him. I hope things continue to uptrend, and I have a good feeling that they will (knock on wood).

I simply am not a fan of "homers" that attack anyone that isn't devout enough in their worship of all things Stoops. But it is kinda cute to watch em get all riled up like some hyper little yip-dog.

[Curly Bill]

By the way!! I'm taking a goodly portion of the credit for the uptrend in Sooner football!!! Without people like me telling Bob to straighten some things out it might not have happened.

You're welcome!!! :)

[picasso]

Heh! I just think Sic'em used poor timing. You can see how it came off the way it did.
Even Nick Saban gets outcouched and is forced to look in the mirror now and then.

[Curly Bill]

Hopefully this will be Bob's version of bouncing back to win another champeenship, like Barry did after he went through a dry spell!

And yes, it goes without saying that there are lots of teams out there that would love to experience a "dry spell" as us Sooner fans might consider one!

[Eielson]

Y'all better leave my old lady alone.

[DenverSooner751]

The problem with your old ladies is Texas HS coaches don't love them enough. They don't wear the progressive neon colored bras that today's power people really crave. :)

[OUinFLA]

Heh! I just think Sic'em used poor timing. You can see how it came off the way it did.
Even Nick Saban gets outcouched and is forced to look in the mirror now and then.

Ole Nick might get outcoached now and then, but he doesn't seem to get out-recruited ever.

Perhaps the product of championships? Maybe. But he was getting top ranked recruits before he won the fist one at Bama.

I hope Bob stays a really long time. Im glad he made some staff changes. Problem with that is great staff soon become head coaches. Im thinking you need to be scouting staff recruits as hard as you recruit players.

[KantoSooner]

minerals?

[picasso]

Ole Nick might get outcoached now and then, but he doesn't seem to get out-recruited ever.

Perhaps the product of championships? Maybe. But he was getting top ranked recruits before he won the fist one at Bama.

I hope Bob stays a really long time. Im glad he made some staff changes. Problem with that is great staff soon become head coaches. Im thinking you need to be scouting staff recruits as hard as you recruit players.
Good point. How's he done recently?

[King Barry's Back]

I desperately want someone to tell me how Baylor is at all relevant to any comments I make regarding OU UNLESS I'm doing a 1:! comparison. Aside from the fact that I'm a Baylor fan, there's this absurd notion that I'm in someway speaking on behalf of or personifying the Baylor program itself. I'm just a fan making an observation -- it doesn't have a damned thing to do with how many bowl games Baylor has won compared to OU. It's ludicrous to say the least.

Having said all of that, I've offered a partial mea culpa here. Stoops pulled a fantastic season out of his hat when it looked like it would be a dumpster fire. Hell, all and all, I think Stoops and OU did an overall better job than we did this season not withstanding the CC.

You have to understand that when I said that Stoops has become, seemingly, complacent over the last few years that it doesn't really say much to point out all of his bowl victories from the start his career until now. I also never said that Stoops has trouble getting bowl eligible. I never suggested he had trouble winning non-BCS bowls. So, again, that doesn't have much to do with my point.

I saw more grit and determination from Stoops in the Sugar Bowl than I've seen from him in a long time. I stand by what I had said throughout this thread which is that Stoops is one of the best coaches in the nation but he has grown too conservative and a bit complacent. That doesn't mean he can't change, but that just seems to be the way he has run OU for the past handful of years. Overly conservative. I'm certainly not trying to insult OU, and it certainly has nothing to do with what Baylor does or does not do (unless making a 1:1 comparison).

You can comfort yourself in the knowledge that if we'd lost to OSU 38-21 and limped to a minor bowl victory, then all these Stoops-defenders would be in your camp right now. Fact is, the program did seem to be complacent over the past few years. Why? I've always thought that Landry Jones had something to do with it, and Bob got rid of some assistants, replaced them with upgrades, and Mike Stoops came back, and there seemed to be some bad seeds on Defense that finally graduated. I think all of that played a role in causing or ending the funk.

Well, all that's behind us after Bedlam and Sugar, so now they're gonna beat up on the Baylor guy. They don't really mean it, Sic, and after we get upset next time, they'll be right back with you.

[King Barry's Back]

No. I'm just fighting the worst cold I've ever had in my life.
What's your problem?
I never thought Stoops was Knute Rockne or Jerry Stiller but I'm also not a reactionary dweeb that cries when the chips are down. Stoops made big changes to his staff, pulled off a couple wins this past month and apparently shifted our recruiting tide, all things some of guys have griped about quite a bit. I'd just like to see some folks sack up and give credit when it's due.
Is that too hard? Kurt Russell movie person?

Now that's funny because I really did think that Bob Stoops was Jerry Stiller.

[picasso]

Now that's funny because I really did think that Bob Stoops was Jerry Stiller.
I was alluding to Stiller as Lombardi in those old Nike commercials.
And don't lump me into your sad sack of **** crowd that you mentioned above.
I've been disappointed a few times but I'm a realist. Unlike some folks on here.

[picasso]

minerals?

See the movie Snatch. Or watch OETA after dark.
Sheesh guys, quit watching effin Duck Dynasty all the time.

[OUinFLA]

Sheesh guys, quit watching effin Duck Dynasty all the time.

Oregon has a dynasty?
I don't think so. Just a run of decent teams.

[KantoSooner]

See the movie Snatch. Or watch OETA after dark.
Sheesh guys, quit watching effin Duck Dynasty all the time.

Now I'm utterly confused. I never saw Snatch as I was warned by a couple of friends that it was one of the worst things ever committed to film. Watch pretty much only OETA after dark, have never seen Duck Dynasty. So WTF are you on about, Johnson? ;>

[picasso]

Now I'm utterly confused. I never saw Snatch as I was warned by a couple of friends that it was one of the worst things ever committed to film. Watch pretty much only OETA after dark, have never seen Duck Dynasty. So WTF are you on about, Johnson? ;>
Yes! So you fancy a little Last of the Summer Wine like meself?
Oregon has a dynasty in it's own mind.

Oh, and I liked Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels better than Snatch but it's still funny.
You can imagine what minerals are Guvnah.

[KantoSooner]

More of a Doc Martin man meself.
I will be truly happy only when the last Oregon fan is strangled by the last Pac12 ref.
Yeah, I kind of figgerd the 'minerals' thing, but thought it outre enough to pump for a second laugh. Pun intended. Gotta wring out everything in there. Pun intended.

[picasso]

Yeah anything on Masterpiece Theatre is good. Summer Wine is silly but I'm in on the joke.

[GDC]

Oh, and I liked Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels better than Snatch but it's still funny.
You can imagine what minerals are Guvnah.

I also liked RocknRolla, and especially Layer Cake.