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Temujin
11/8/2013, 02:06 PM
I know we're all piling on the offense, and I usually hate to beat a dead horse...but I'm just pissed about this loss in so many ways.

First of all, it wasn't hard to tell where we were headed from the very start. K-State had the blueprint for defeating Baylor, it just didn't have the horses to make it happen. KSU proved that Baylor was vulnerable up the middle. Not only that, but EVERY decent coach knows that the Baylor offense was not something you want to mess with, so KSU held them to 35 points...by HOLDING ON TO THE BALL for 40 minutes. Excellent game plan. Almost worked, if it weren't for the fact that Baylor just has more talent than KSU.

The Game Plan

Knowing all that, what was our offensive game plan after having over a week and a half to prepare, AND after our defense stuffed Baylor on their first drive? The first three plays went like this: WR end around (3 yard loss), WR screen pass out wide (4 yard gain), RB screen (incomplete). You want to put that on the players?

Ok that didn't work...so, you want to run more, right? Let's see how Heupel handles this situation: Our second series, we ran 3 straight QB runs off tackle to the right. The first time it worked - 9 yards for Trevor Knight. Second time - 0 yards. Third time - Bell hit in the backfield and leans forward to only lose 1 yard. Sorry Heupel, but running the same play over and over only works in the pee wee leagues.

In the late 1st/early 2nd quarter, Baylor gives OU the TD, twice. The first time Baylor gift-wrapped 53 yards to the OU offense in penalties, and OU had the ball at the Baylor 7 yard line. DD runs right, stuffed. TK runs (to the right, again) for a 5 yard gain. OU has the ball at the 2. Blake Bell runs right for a 1 yard gain, and then OU gets "sneaky" and hurries up on 4th down, only to get stuffed in the backfield while trying to run (you guessed it) right! GENIUS! Zero points.

The second time Baylor hands the offense a TD, Jalen Saunders returns a safety punt to the Baylor 12. Here's the call from our offensive guru: TK rush right for 3 yards. Screen to Jalen Saunders (hmmm...isn't that the same exact play as the 2nd play from scrimmage? maybe no one will notice) for 4 yards. Crossing route ALL the way across the field to Saunders (incomplete). It wasn't a bad play overall, and it was covered well. The problem? Even if he catches the ball, it's well behind the first down marker and nowhere close to a TD.

"But...WHY is our offense so bad??? Bell is just a bad QB, and so is TK, and so is Landry..."

THIS is the difference between a well-coached team and a poorly coached team, and THIS is also the moment I knew we would lose to Baylor. With 4:22 left in the first quarter and on 3rd and 12, Baylor has the ball and is up 3-0. Mike Stoops has the Baylor offense reeling, and they're clearly confused. Petty thinks he has the play, and just before the snap Quentin Hayes shows blitz. Petty calls the timeout.

No confusion about the offensive play being called, and no mistakes. Petty knew what play he was running WELL before the snap, and upon seeing the late adjustment by the defense, he knew he didn't have the right call, so he went to the sideline. The next play, Baylor converts the first down, and it's rendered null only because the receiver stepped out of bounds. But the important part is that Petty A) knows what play is being run without constantly turning to the sideline, and B) knows when the play is going to fail and when he needs to bail.

Let's contrast that with something that's all too familiar at OU - Bell and the receivers stare over at the sideline to get the call. With 5 seconds left on the play clock, Bell steps up to the line to bark the orders to the OL. The clock counts down and either 1 of 2 things generally happens - the ball isn't snapped in time, or a timeout is called from the sideline. Bell doesn't know WHAT Heupel/Norvell wants to do from one play to the next. They have to look to the sideline to get last minute directions and then they have to hurry the execution.

Why does Bell not know the plays that are going to be called? The coaches talk about execution all the time. We always hear "we didn't execute" after every loss. But, I submit that our players aren't given a fair chance to execute. They're being asked to make last-minute adjustments on the fly almost every play. This used to be a problem under Kevin Wilson, too. It's a bad habit that we've gotten into, and because of the great collection of talent at every position that we had in 2007/8, combined with a brilliant QB in Bradford, it masked the problems that it tends to cause...until we face a team with the talent and intelligence to recognize these weaknesses.

"But, our OL is constantly whiffing on run blocks! They're terrible!"

I know that some/many like to put the poor execution on the OL. I understand that from casually watching the game. But this is the exact same OL that put up 212 yards against a MUCH more physical and much better run defense in Notre Dame. This is the exact same OL that went for 202 yards against TCU. The OL might have some issues, but if it can be effective against those very good and extremely physical defensive teams, why can't it run all over Baylor the way KSU did? KSU had 327 yards against Baylor on the ground.

Here's how Heupel's indecision-making hurts the OL. If you're going to run the ball effectively, you need to identify your target and be prepared to attack him. For the OL, getting the plays in at the last moment isn't a recipe for success for passing or running, but it's especially bad for running plays. It doesn't give you time to identify your target. Moreover, our OL lines up with the intention of passing on every play anyway. They're in pass block mode from the very beginning, because that's been our traditional offense over the last several years. Run blocking requires different positioning than pass blocking.

So here's how the shortened time frame hurts our OL: 1) It doesn't give the OL the time to identify their target. 2) There's not enough time to transition your weight for the appropriate position to maintain a run block. 3) You don't have enough time to psych yourself up for a physical push by the DL. This is all because of the last-minute play-calling that our staff has gotten used to.

Conclusion

My theory overall? This team has LONG lost its fundamentals, particularly on offense. Bob fell in love with the no huddle, thinking it gave more control to the coaches. And it's much easier for a head coach to put his trust in a seasoned football coach than it is to put your trust in an 18-22 year old kid...especially at the critical quarterback position. The coaches may have also fooled themselves into thinking that the players aren't capable of handling a complex offense, so they've dumbed down the playbook to run the same predictable plays over and over...when in reality, the problem is that they're not giving them enough time to fully prepare for the play in between downs.

Hey, it's all just a theory, and all I can do is observe and report. But that's what we do as fans. We look at our teams and how they perform and when they disappoint us, we try to rationalize why. So, this here is my rationalization for what might be the worst offense I've ever seen.

Temujin

Okie35
11/8/2013, 02:08 PM
Landry wasn't a bad QB @ all. We just didn't have a consistent run game... haven't had one since 2008. Sam was a beast of a player but he never had to go through that much adversity knowing that Brown, Murry, Gresham, and our AA o-lineman would come through. That team was talented :(

Temujin
11/8/2013, 02:11 PM
Landry wasn't a bad QB @ all. We just didn't have a consistent run game... haven't had one since 2008.

I actually wasn't saying that. I put that in quotes because that's generally where people are putting the blame for the losses. If you read on, I was explaining why I think it's NOT entirely the QB's fault.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/8/2013, 02:26 PM
This is how funny the innerwebs are.

1. Temujin thinks that our offense is too simple and I think it is too complicated.
2. He thinks it is too simple because they don't trust the players while I think it is too complicated because coaches are control freaks and are trying to micromanage the game and have to have every variant for every situation.
3. Repeating for the 8000th time - go to any football message board on the planet and you will see people complaining about predictable play calling. Guess what, there are 100s of different ways to run the ball, but fans always condense them to run right, run left, run up the middle, reverse.
4. We run right because Thompson can't run block to save his life.

However, some of the things I do agree with.

1. The OL whiffing on blocks because of the play changing. The problem isn't any one specific thing, its a laundry list of issues. Yes you may have gotten one of them, but what about simply missing the call? What about mis-hearing the new call?

2. We are running passing plays that Bell just isn't good at executing. Our offensive game planning should start with what WE do well and then move to what the opponent does poorly that matches up. That was epic fail against Baylor.

cherokeebrewer
11/8/2013, 03:28 PM
Our offensive game planning should start with what WE do well and then move to what the opponent does poorly that matches up. That was epic fail against Baylor.

Yes and the sad thing is, same happened in the UT game. We avoided their weakness...call me confused.

Temujin
11/8/2013, 05:38 PM
This is how funny the innerwebs are.

1. Temujin thinks that our offense is too simple and I think it is too complicated.
2. He thinks it is too simple because they don't trust the players while I think it is too complicated because coaches are control freaks and are trying to micromanage the game and have to have every variant for every situation.
3. Repeating for the 8000th time - go to any football message board on the planet and you will see people complaining about predictable play calling. Guess what, there are 100s of different ways to run the ball, but fans always condense them to run right, run left, run up the middle, reverse.
4. We run right because Thompson can't run block to save his life.

However, some of the things I do agree with.

1. The OL whiffing on blocks because of the play changing. The problem isn't any one specific thing, its a laundry list of issues. Yes you may have gotten one of them, but what about simply missing the call? What about mis-hearing the new call?

2. We are running passing plays that Bell just isn't good at executing. Our offensive game planning should start with what WE do well and then move to what the opponent does poorly that matches up. That was epic fail against Baylor.

It's also funny how the innerwebs love to post snarky comments for no reason at all. Look a little closer at the highlighted word in my post. It's in the same paragraph as the parts that you take issue with. I said it MAY be a problem that the coaches don't trust the players - clearly a guess on my part. I was never distinctly positive about that, I just put a theory out there. Hell I even added punctuation for your comprehension convenience.

Your 3rd point I kind find of baffling given previous posts. Against Notre Dame, I posted that there are tons of different ways to run the ball and stated that maybe Heupel hasn't mastered the complexities of the run game just yet. I mentioned Heupel's tendency to always follow the lead blocker (Millard). Then I used TK's 20+ yard run as a good example of a "different" type of run, where Heupel mixed it up by pulling Millard out of his usual blocking assignment and Millard came across the line to hit the kick-back which opened up that run for TK. It was well planned and different than anything we saw against Baylor yesterday.

Yet, your response then was not that it had anything to do with the coaching, but that the problem all along was that the OL is terrible because they whiff at blocks all the time. But NOW you change your tune and sarcastically reply that I'm oversimplifying the run game by boiling it down to simply run right/left/middle/reverse? Isn't just saying that the OL is terrible, in fact, oversimplifying? Then, point #4 - so...we should just always run right? What about the TK's run that I mentioned earlier against ND. That was to the left. It's weird, you accuse me of oversimplifying the running game, then you immediately oversimplify the left tackle situation.

I'm not sure why you have a hard-on for my posts. I don't claim to be any kind of guru, I never have, and I don't claim to know every reason why something is or isn't working. All I did was provide a theory based on what I've seen so far this year, and specifically this game against Baylor. If you want to disagree, I'm fine with that. I'd enjoy a reasonable discussion about it, too, which was the reason for the post in the first place. If you're up for that, that's cool. But being an ignorant smart-*** really doesn't lend itself to discussion.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful in anyway, but I also don't understand the reason for the jackass post.

All that aside, I think Bell CAN complete some of the throws, and he's proven that at times, he's just really inconsistent. My guess is that has something to do with his footwork or passing motion. And as far as starting with what WE do well...haven't we pretty much established that we don't really do anything well on offense?...at least not consistently enough to know what IT is?

I suppose we might say that running has been our strength, but clearly that can be stopped. We may not know what the problem is exactly, but the problem is so systemic that it leans toward coaching and fundamental problems more than it does to lack of talent or anything like that. And that's the primary point of my post - that while some of the problem extends to the players themselves, the problem goes down into the core of how they're being trained and told to execute.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/8/2013, 06:52 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic, I was pointing out that there are tons of opinions on what is wrong and most of the time they are polar opposites. It was more about the irony of message boards than anything - depending on the situation they ALL could be right or NONE of them could be right.

I then laid out my thinking which is a polar opposite of yours. My opinion is based on the fact that our coaches are Type A control freaks that lash out at anyone who they perceive doesn't do something the way they think it should be done. For some reason, Josh isn't viewed this way even though "Like Hires Like". However, if you watched him coach last year during that espn special you'd see he does the same crap, just on gameday he's up in the pressbox. Given that, I think Josh thinks that he can guess what the defense is doing better than the QB on the field. It doesn't matter how good we are at the play, because he is putting us into the perfect play for the situation, we should be successful. The problem is that his definition of "perfect" has blown up exponentially - thus why we have 50+ formations and 15 personnel groupings and who knows how many plays per formation. Pride/Hubris whatever you want to call it, but somewhere along the line he has forgotten that the OC didn't make him look to the sidelines in 2000 every 10 seconds.

The 3rd point is the general view by the fan base that we are predictable. I misread your rants about the same play call time and time again as you were predicting it. I apologize.

The 4th point was about why we always run to the right (which was what you were ripping on). Our left tackle is not very good blocking against the run.

I'm often amazed at how much "tone" people find in my posts. Outside of responding to Picasso and 0fer, I rarely try to troll anyone.

OkieThunderLion
11/8/2013, 10:50 PM
This is how funny the innerwebs are.
3. Repeating for the 8000th time - go to any football message board on the planet and you will see people complaining about predictable play calling. Guess what, there are 100s of different ways to run the ball, but fans always condense them to run right, run left, run up the middle, reverse.


Easiest target for the mad fan.

Scott D
11/8/2013, 10:56 PM
I'm offended by this thread title. There is no O in this ffence.

OkieThunderLion
11/8/2013, 11:00 PM
We just didn't have a consistent run game... haven't had one since 2008.
The last two seasons OU has had a much higher ypc than '08. Not saying the run game has been better, just interesting to point out.

Temujin
11/9/2013, 12:16 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic, I was pointing out that there are tons of opinions on what is wrong and most of the time they are polar opposites. It was more about the irony of message boards than anything - depending on the situation they ALL could be right or NONE of them could be right.

I then laid out my thinking which is a polar opposite of yours. My opinion is based on the fact that our coaches are Type A control freaks that lash out at anyone who they perceive doesn't do something the way they think it should be done. For some reason, Josh isn't viewed this way even though "Like Hires Like". However, if you watched him coach last year during that espn special you'd see he does the same crap, just on gameday he's up in the pressbox. Given that, I think Josh thinks that he can guess what the defense is doing better than the QB on the field. It doesn't matter how good we are at the play, because he is putting us into the perfect play for the situation, we should be successful. The problem is that his definition of "perfect" has blown up exponentially - thus why we have 50+ formations and 15 personnel groupings and who knows how many plays per formation. Pride/Hubris whatever you want to call it, but somewhere along the line he has forgotten that the OC didn't make him look to the sidelines in 2000 every 10 seconds.

The 3rd point is the general view by the fan base that we are predictable. I misread your rants about the same play call time and time again as you were predicting it. I apologize.

The 4th point was about why we always run to the right (which was what you were ripping on). Our left tackle is not very good blocking against the run.

I'm often amazed at how much "tone" people find in my posts. Outside of responding to Picasso and 0fer, I rarely try to troll anyone.

Sorry if I misunderstood. Just sounded like you were trolling me from the way I read the post. My bad. ;)

I totally expect someone to have a difference of opinion from mine, and I welcome discussion on it. All of us have differing perspectives, even people who've had nearly the exact same experiences. I know I'm not an expert. I do have experience in the football realm and I imagine a lot of people here do as well. I just try to look at things from my experience and see if I can find the patterns that explain it, like I imagine anyone else does.

Besides that, threads like these, for me, are usually the product of sitting on the throne when there's no magazine in sight. ;)

East Coast Bias
11/9/2013, 09:10 PM
I think these discussions are valuable and point to different perspectives. For me watching the power teams in college football-Alabama-Stanford-FSU it circles back to line play. Is the trend going back to conventional football? These teams don't always have the best QB's or RB's, but they always move the pile. Look at the protection Alabama's QB gets, he is a mediocre QB at best. You could plug just about any QB into the Alabama, Stanford lineup. I think most of our woes stem from poor line-play.

Okie35
11/10/2013, 03:56 AM
The last two seasons OU has had a much higher ypc than '08. Not saying the run game has been better, just interesting to point out.

I meant running in the redzone too.