8time, 75, others that ....

[Soonerjeepman]

seem to really understand the program and college football. I like both of your guys' views on things. I'm just your avg fan..some knowledge, coach hs basketball not football...

SO, my question...the million dollar one is..what is going on?

Heuple doesn't seem good at calling plays...or is that just the talent we have?
Is Stoops and nepotism with Mike hurting or helping?
Our recruits are, so it seems, have the biggest offer from OU...
Stoops burned out?


Just seems to me the program is in another down time (THANK God not a john blake down time!)

I'll be a Sooner fan til I die...lived through the 90's this ain't jack compared to that...but dang losing BIG games is starting to frustrate me~ lol

[David Earl]

Reasonable questions, and well said.

[achiro]

Offense is way to predictable, you see a formation and pretty much know what's getting ready to happen.
Zone read is way to slow to develop.
Planned QB keep plays, predictable and easy to defend.
Receivers getting jammed at the line, alters timing, QB looks to where receiver should be open and he's not there so he has to go through reads, by the time he sees the open guy, he's no longer open, QB then holds the ball too long.
Seems like that unless it's a planned keep the QB won't pull the ball down and run. The scramble runs are there a lot but we aren't using it. Don't know if that's coached or just Bell trying hard to make a pass play work.
That crap of putting Knight in randomly in the middle of a set of downs then back to Bell was just weird and didn't work at all in the overall drive.
Play calling is just horrible. Part of the goal is to keep the defense guessing and on their heels. Unfortunately all we are doing is keeping our O guessing and on their heels.
delay of games happen way to much and that's on the coach freezing up and not figuring out the defense in time.
Just as bell starts gaining some confidence in his arm, they change to run run run punt.
This staff isn't playing to their teams strengths, they have decided what kind of offense they want to be and those are the plays they are calling regardless of men on the field.

[OUinFLA]

Delay of game penalties on the offense are killers. It seems the OCs want to be too cute and if the defense is lined up to possibly stop the called play, they are afraid to run it anyway.

So, they decide to change the call which confuses a college level offense and makes them think too much instead of execute. Heck, it seems that most of the time a decent defense can make adjustments just as fast as the offense can change their set.

Call the dang play, and then run it. If the defense stops it, it's no worse than the frequent delay of game penalties or wasted time outs trying to outfox the defense. How about we just try to out-execute the defense for a change.

Once you develop a "pro" level group of offensive players who have lots of time playing together and couple that with a Bradford or Landry type QB, then perhaps you have a chance of getting alternate plays executed correctly.

Otherwise, call a play and run it. If the defense is better than your offense, you wont do well regardless of what you call.

[Soonerjeepman]

Offense is way to predictable, you see a formation and pretty much know what's getting ready to happen.
Zone read is way to slow to develop.
Planned QB keep plays, predictable and easy to defend.
Receivers getting jammed at the line, alters timing, QB looks to where receiver should be open and he's not there so he has to go through reads, by the time he sees the open guy, he's no longer open, QB then holds the ball too long.
Seems like that unless it's a planned keep the QB won't pull the ball down and run. The scramble runs are there a lot but we aren't using it. Don't know if that's coached or just Bell trying hard to make a pass play work.
That crap of putting Knight in randomly in the middle of a set of downs then back to Bell was just weird and didn't work at all in the overall drive.
Play calling is just horrible. Part of the goal is to keep the defense guessing and on their heels. Unfortunately all we are doing is keeping our O guessing and on their heels.
delay of games happen way to much and that's on the coach freezing up and not figuring out the defense in time.
Just as bell starts gaining some confidence in his arm, they change to run run run punt.
This staff isn't playing to their teams strengths, they have decided what kind of offense they want to be and those are the plays they are calling regardless of men on the field.

so is that due to talent level..we just don't have it, coaches not being "creative"....I agree with all that...but curious as to WHY? Honestly bu just looked more athletic, stronger, quicker, determined...

[SoonerInFortSmith]

I think the offensive line is a big part of the problem. Recruiting has been down on the OL for a few years now. Our only NFL prospect there wasn't even a lineman coming out of high school. The line is far from the only problem with the offense right now but IMO it is the biggest.

[SoonerInHSV]

We clearly have a lack of talent in the OL right now. However, we do not seem to be able to put together a game plan that uses what strengths we do have to our best advantage.

There are two ways this can go:
1) You pick your best personnel and design a scheme around them or
2) You pick a scheme and decide which personnel fit them the best.

Right now we seem to be trying to do both at once. The perfect example of this is when the put Knight in down near the goal line and then emptied the back field. Scouting on Knight tells you we are not going to have him throw a pass, so the only option is run. But then there are not even any backs to make you have to decide which guy is getting the ball. So everyone knows who gets the ball and sure enough that is what we run.

This play has a chance of working if the guy running it is a passing threat, but no way it works if everyone in the stadium knows where it is going. Bell would have been a better choice to execute that play because someone might believe we will try a pass with him. So we have Knight running a play that Bell is more suited for.

At the same time I saw Bell running toward the perimeter on several occasions a play that you don't want the guy who cannot change directions on, but do want the guy like Knight who is a shifty runner. It seem like Josh just has a sheet of paper and rolls one dice for personnel, one dice for formation, and one dice for the play and does not even try to match them together.

[DCsooner22]

The perfect example of this is when the put Knight in down near the goal line and then emptied the back field. Scouting on Knight tells you we are not going to have him throw a pass, so the only option is run. But then there are not even any backs to make you have to decide which guy is getting the ball. So everyone knows who gets the ball and sure enough that is what we run.

This play has a chance of working if the guy running it is a passing threat, but no way it works if everyone in the stadium knows where it is going. Bell would have been a better choice to execute that play because someone might believe we will try a pass with him. So we have Knight running a play that Bell is more suited for.


I remember watching that play line up last night and thinking, "This play has NO CHANCE." I think more specifically what I said was, "WTF?!? Seriously!?" An empty backfield with a guy who is not going to throw the ball...? Hmmm... I wonder what the defense should do...?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Just some things here

playcalling - every fanbase of every team in college or the pros says their playcalling is too predictable. A lot of this is because fans boil hundreds of plays down to a coin flip - Pass or Run.

OUR playcalling - I personally feel that we attack schemes and not players. I also feel like we are in love with the concept of "multiple" and it lowers the average talent on offense (meaning we want guys who can pull off 6-7 packages okay, but not 1 package well). In other words, we have too many personnel groupings, formations, and styles for us to be good at any one of them without multiple years in the system. Fans always discount practice time but it takes 1000s of reps to get the timing of plays down. I'd be surprised if some of the plays we are running we actually have more than 100 reps vs a live defense on them. That is key for this year as we've had a ton of injuries and play backups.

talent offense

QB - I felt a the beginning of the year that we had average QBs, nothing has really changed except that Bell acts like he doesn't want to run now.

Comparative Talent - Downgrade from last year (like I said last year when everyone wanted to bench Landry for Bell)
Talent Evaluation - Good - they each have the tools
Quality of Coaching - Poor, because neither one of them can throw. At this point, we might as well direct snap it to a running back
Substitution - Up until last night, it hasn't been bad. Last night, they looked like Spurrier was coaching them. Obviously, everyone thinks the backup is better but outside of the top 2 in the race that hasn't normally been the case at OU.

OL - We have 5 guys that can block 3 max.

Comparative Talent - Down from last year
Talent Evaluation - They are great at pass blocking...on a running team. For what we had last year, this would be an awesome group
Quality of Coaching - This is tough for me. Bedenbaugh hasn't really had much time to impact them from a technique perspective, so all I have to go on is blocking schemes. The problem is that Bedenbaugh is calling "positive" schemes thus the 5 to block 3. If we are going to be a running team, we have to set the example of 5 block 5 and those that miss blocks need to "man up" or be replaced. These guys don't even look like they feel bad at all when they whiff on a block (which Thompson did 3x on a guy 2 feet in front of him). I guess I was hoping for more with the guys we have on campus, not having wait 4 years until this guy's recruits are RS JRs. I was also hoping for guys that would bring up the level of competition with our DL to make them less soft.
Substitution - we play up to 11 guys here so that is good

RB - Oh boy
Comparative Talent - Down from last year, even though they are the same players. The primary problem is Williams
Talent Evaluation - Good and bad. They all can run the ball, but they all have such dramatically different styles that it seriously complicates the blocking schemes. In college football, you have to simplify certain things because of the lack of practice time. I think we'd be better off with picking 2 styles and sticking with them. I personally prefer guys like Clay and Finch over a guy like Williams because they are less dependent on the OL for yards.
Quality of Coaching - The biggest negative here is the cutting. These guys have been asked to block more this year than any other and so they've gotten lazy and have been trying to cut 100% of the time. As a coach, you can't let them get away with that crap. There is an appropriate block for every situation and the cut block isn't it most of the time.
Substitution - Yards per Carry comparison (attempts) - Clay 6.0 (90), Williams 4.2 (97), Bell 3.7 (66), Finch 7.0 (35), Ford 5.9 (20), Millard 5.7 (17) - Do you ever get the feeling that we may be giving too many carries to the wrong backs? Everyone is on Heupel, but Gundy controls the running back substitution. How in the world are you supposed to have a cohesive series when you swap out a 6.0 or 7.0 guy for a 4.2?

WR -
Comparative Talent - Down
Talent Evaluation - We have 2 really good receivers in Saunders and Shepherd and a good possession guy in Bester. However, we also had the loss of Stills a year early (smart move on his part btw). It bothers me to no end that we have to take 16 guys over 4 years to get 3 decent guys in any one year. And for all of your guys who follow recruiting rankings, this is a graveyard of 4 and 5 star players.
Quality of Coaching - Honestly, guys don't change much while they are here. That has been the story since Spurrier Jr left though. The biggest problem I have is that they don't get better at blocking. Have you ever noticed that our WRs miss blocks, but our DBs are almost always blocked completely out of the play? This is one of the truisms in college football, when you have bad coaching or effort on one side of the ball, the other side suffers just as much.
Substitution - I've actually like our subbing here. Early in the season we gave a lot of people a chance to make a play, then thinned it out through the season. Some guys continue to get a shot (like Neal) because I assume they do something in practice.

TE - We have a TE?

FB - Good stuff going on here

[champions77]

Offense is way to predictable, you see a formation and pretty much know what's getting ready to happen.
Zone read is way to slow to develop.
Planned QB keep plays, predictable and easy to defend.
Receivers getting jammed at the line, alters timing, QB looks to where receiver should be open and he's not there so he has to go through reads, by the time he sees the open guy, he's no longer open, QB then holds the ball too long.
Seems like that unless it's a planned keep the QB won't pull the ball down and run. The scramble runs are there a lot but we aren't using it. Don't know if that's coached or just Bell trying hard to make a pass play work.
That crap of putting Knight in randomly in the middle of a set of downs then back to Bell was just weird and didn't work at all in the overall drive.
Play calling is just horrible. Part of the goal is to keep the defense guessing and on their heels. Unfortunately all we are doing is keeping our O guessing and on their heels.
delay of games happen way to much and that's on the coach freezing up and not figuring out the defense in time.
Just as bell starts gaining some confidence in his arm, they change to run run run punt.
This staff isn't playing to their teams strengths, they have decided what kind of offense they want to be and those are the plays they are calling regardless of men on the field.

+1 Well stated. Can I add in that the talent is way down on what it needs to be to be competitive with the best. Some of Bob's hiring practices (creating second o-line position to hire old friend B Kittle the worst) and not recruiting to our needs. Urgency for defensive tackles only shows up this last spring even though we had three seniors at that position in 2012. Poor tight end recruiting (when Austin Haywood left us about three years ago, we had zero tight ends) and where is the fullback to replace Milliard? We haven't recruited a fullback around here in years.

Going in to this season, we had Blake Bell, a junior....and no one knew if he could pass or not? So he's been here two years and no one knew if he could pass or not, because he was not allowed to develop in games running the offense. Is that not odd to someone beside me?

Josh Heupel . In way over his head. Should have been sent somewhere to develop his trade. On the job training is not something we do here at OU, at least not until he arrived. We replace Kevin Wilson with a guy with 15 plus years LESS experience, and expect the same impressive results? How Bob can appoint him over Jay Norvell, with considerable more experience, is looking to be another staff decision mistake. We can only hope that he gets a job at another place, because Bob will NEVER fire him. I guess you don't fire National Championship qb's, at least those who have a sister married to the OU President's son.


Add in attrition, more injuries than any other Top 20 program consistently for years, and presto, you have yourself one mediocre program.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Josh Heupel . In way over his head. Should have been sent somewhere to develop his trade. On the job training is not something we do here at OU, at least not until he arrived. We replace Kevin Wilson with a guy with 15 plus years LESS experience, and expect the same impressive results? How Bob can appoint him over Jay Norvell, with considerable more experience, is looking to be another staff decision mistake. We can only hope that he gets a job at another place, because Bob will NEVER fire him. I guess you don't fire National Championship qb's, at least those who have a sister married to the OU President's son.


No offense but Norvell and Heupel have the exact same title. We have zero idea who actually calls what play. I'm not even going to get into how this current offense looks more like the one Norvell had at Nebraska than the ones that we had with Landry.

[champions77]

No offense but Norvell and Heupel have the exact same title. We have zero idea who actually calls what play. I'm not even going to get into how this current offense looks more like the one Norvell had at Nebraska than the ones that we had with Landry.

I am almost 100% certain that Josh calls all of the plays. He's in the Press box, Norvell is on the sidelines. I have never heard once that is was anyone besides Josh H.

[BermudaSooner]

Great post JKM.

[EatLeadCommie]

Was watching that 60 Minutes Saban interview last week and one of the things that stood out was when he was telling his coaches something like, "We shouldn't have to wait to see what defense they have to know what play we're going to call." Saban's thing is just execute and the success will follow. We simply don't execute well and we way overthink on the offensive side of the ball.

[OU_Sooners75]

seem to really understand the program and college football. I like both of your guys' views on things. I'm just your avg fan..some knowledge, coach hs basketball not football...

SO, my question...the million dollar one is..what is going on?

Heuple doesn't seem good at calling plays...or is that just the talent we have?
Is Stoops and nepotism with Mike hurting or helping?
Our recruits are, so it seems, have the biggest offer from OU...
Stoops burned out?


Just seems to me the program is in another down time (THANK God not a john blake down time!)

I'll be a Sooner fan til I die...lived through the 90's this ain't jack compared to that...but dang losing BIG games is starting to frustrate me~ lol

Heupel is on way over his head with the offense Bob wants to go to. And it is truly affecting the product.

I think Heupel is an okay OC when it comes to a offense more geared like Leach runs.

OU has the talent to run zone read, just not the OC to pull it off.

Stoops will likely get outside opinions of his offense this coming week from those that he trusts most. His bringing Mike back isn't a problem.

Mike came back with a mess already in place. And last night the defense played well enough early to get the win. But the defense had to stay on the field because the offense couldn't put together any drives to give the defense some rest. Moving forward I think the defense continues to get better.

I don't think Stoops is bunt out. The new hires have seemed to loosen him up some with recruits. He is taking more of a personal task to get to know each kid it seems.

The program isn't in a downtime, but a rebuilding one where they are trying to reinvent their offense. But like I said earlier, it's an offense where the current OC isn't comfortable running and really has no clue as to how to run it.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

In my long post rant a few weeks back, I noted some of my issues. Execution problems come from trying to make too many people happy in skill positions. Cale Gundy is one of the biggest problems in this offense but he gets a free pass since he is just a RB coach.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I am almost 100% certain that Josh calls all of the plays. He's in the Press box, Norvell is on the sidelines. I have never heard once that is was anyone besides Josh H.

It takes us 30 seconds to get a play ready to go. That sounds like it is playcalling by committee.

[Mjcpr]

It takes us 30 seconds to get a play ready to go. That sounds like it is playcalling by committee.

Maybe it takes that long to herp one up.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

OU had the talent to run zone read, just not the OC to pull it off.

Once Millard went down, there is no way we have the OL to be an option running team. There are just way too many defenders running through the line unblocked. We can get away with some toss sweeps to Clay but we just can't block the middle well enough for it to be the focus of the offense. Heck there was one zone read where I thought the guy was going to tackle both Bell and Williams in the backfield.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Maybe it takes that long to herp one up.

Maybe, I have no idea. I just know that play calling has been getting slower and slower as the season has went on. I also see Norvell talking into his headset before he starts signalling to the QB. I think that Josh calls something then tells them what he sees from the pressbox and then there is a discussion about the next play.

[8timechamps]

Just some things here

playcalling - every fanbase of every team in college or the pros says their playcalling is too predictable. A lot of this is because fans boil hundreds of plays down to a coin flip - Pass or Run.

OUR playcalling - I personally feel that we attack schemes and not players. I also feel like we are in love with the concept of "multiple" and it lowers the average talent on offense (meaning we want guys who can pull off 6-7 packages okay, but not 1 package well). In other words, we have too many personnel groupings, formations, and styles for us to be good at any one of them without multiple years in the system. Fans always discount practice time but it takes 1000s of reps to get the timing of plays down. I'd be surprised if some of the plays we are running we actually have more than 100 reps vs a live defense on them. That is key for this year as we've had a ton of injuries and play backups.

talent offense

QB - I felt a the beginning of the year that we had average QBs, nothing has really changed except that Bell acts like he doesn't want to run now.

Comparative Talent - Downgrade from last year (like I said last year when everyone wanted to bench Landry for Bell)
Talent Evaluation - Good - they each have the tools
Quality of Coaching - Poor, because neither one of them can throw. At this point, we might as well direct snap it to a running back
Substitution - Up until last night, it hasn't been bad. Last night, they looked like Spurrier was coaching them. Obviously, everyone thinks the backup is better but outside of the top 2 in the race that hasn't normally been the case at OU.

OL - We have 5 guys that can block 3 max.

Comparative Talent - Down from last year
Talent Evaluation - They are great at pass blocking...on a running team. For what we had last year, this would be an awesome group
Quality of Coaching - This is tough for me. Bedenbaugh hasn't really had much time to impact them from a technique perspective, so all I have to go on is blocking schemes. The problem is that Bedenbaugh is calling "positive" schemes thus the 5 to block 3. If we are going to be a running team, we have to set the example of 5 block 5 and those that miss blocks need to "man up" or be replaced. These guys don't even look like they feel bad at all when they whiff on a block (which Thompson did 3x on a guy 2 feet in front of him). I guess I was hoping for more with the guys we have on campus, not having wait 4 years until this guy's recruits are RS JRs. I was also hoping for guys that would bring up the level of competition with our DL to make them less soft.
Substitution - we play up to 11 guys here so that is good

RB - Oh boy
Comparative Talent - Down from last year, even though they are the same players. The primary problem is Williams
Talent Evaluation - Good and bad. They all can run the ball, but they all have such dramatically different styles that it seriously complicates the blocking schemes. In college football, you have to simplify certain things because of the lack of practice time. I think we'd be better off with picking 2 styles and sticking with them. I personally prefer guys like Clay and Finch over a guy like Williams because they are less dependent on the OL for yards.
Quality of Coaching - The biggest negative here is the cutting. These guys have been asked to block more this year than any other and so they've gotten lazy and have been trying to cut 100% of the time. As a coach, you can't let them get away with that crap. There is an appropriate block for every situation and the cut block isn't it most of the time.
Substitution - Yards per Carry comparison (attempts) - Clay 6.0 (90), Williams 4.2 (97), Bell 3.7 (66), Finch 7.0 (35), Ford 5.9 (20), Millard 5.7 (17) - Do you ever get the feeling that we may be giving too many carries to the wrong backs? Everyone is on Heupel, but Gundy controls the running back substitution. How in the world are you supposed to have a cohesive series when you swap out a 6.0 or 7.0 guy for a 4.2?

WR -
Comparative Talent - Down
Talent Evaluation - We have 2 really good receivers in Saunders and Shepherd and a good possession guy in Bester. However, we also had the loss of Stills a year early (smart move on his part btw). It bothers me to no end that we have to take 16 guys over 4 years to get 3 decent guys in any one year. And for all of your guys who follow recruiting rankings, this is a graveyard of 4 and 5 star players.
Quality of Coaching - Honestly, guys don't change much while they are here. That has been the story since Spurrier Jr left though. The biggest problem I have is that they don't get better at blocking. Have you ever noticed that our WRs miss blocks, but our DBs are almost always blocked completely out of the play? This is one of the truisms in college football, when you have bad coaching or effort on one side of the ball, the other side suffers just as much.
Substitution - I've actually like our subbing here. Early in the season we gave a lot of people a chance to make a play, then thinned it out through the season. Some guys continue to get a shot (like Neal) because I assume they do something in practice.

TE - We have a TE?

FB - Good stuff going on here

JKM pretty much nails it with this post. I don't have a ton to add, but I'll add a few things:

1. I haven't wanted to admit this, but it's now pretty clear to anyone that watched, our OL is very average. Ikard is a smart kid, and probably plays at a higher level than he should, but he's about the lone stud we have along the line. The rest of the guys have suffered from flat out poor coaching. I really like the direction Bedenbaugh has taken this unit, but he's being asked to turn them into a run blocking line...no matter how you slice it, it's probably not possible. We have a lot of guys that look the part on the line, but not many that really play the part. I'm not going to list them player by player, so I'll just say that we just aren't very good along the line right now. The good news is that Bedenbaugh has worked his *** off in recruiting, and we will get better. But, it's going to be tough sometimes until those guys get in and can play.

2. We don't have a running back that stands out right now. An every down guy, that can carry the load and do what is asked of him. As much talent as we have, we still don't have the Murray/Peterson type guy. I'm not just talking about elite talent, I'm talking more about overall ability. Ford could be that kid, but we don't know right now. Again, we have some good prospects for the future, so it's a wait and see situation.

3. I feel like Heupel really struggles with game planning. Last night was a good example of this; in the first two series of offense, we ran the ball with...well, with everyone except our running backs. I didn't really get this. Then, we spent a large part of the game trying to outrun Baylor to the edge. Against teams with far inferior talent, this is a no brainer, but against a team with Baylor's talent, you can't make it a race to get to the corner. You'll lose more times than not. Remember the Texas game, and how we all thought we'd see a healthy dose of Bell running? Because it was obvious to any/everyone that Texas struggled with accounting for the extra ball carrier. Same thing in the Baylor game. KSU has proven that Baylor may struggle with the same thing, and/or attacking the interior on the ground. We come out trying to run to the edges. Just bad gameplanning.

4. Quarterback. I love the kind of player Bell is, but he's not the guy that's going to lead this team to a title. He just isn't. And, part of that is Heupels lack of trust in his passing. He asks him to throw when everyone knows he's throwing, but rarely at other times of the game. He's just not been put in many good positions. Then, the whole Knight thing last night. Was that a package of plays, or was it just what "felt right"? I don't understand that move at all.

The offense is broken right now. It's really hard for me to understand what they're trying to do on that side of the ball. I think it's a talent issue combined with game planning. The good news is that the defense seems to be playing well, and should only get better. As for the offense, Stoops will have to take a long look at things in the off season and decide what he wants to do. I hope that he's not slow to make a decision (whatever that may be), because right now, we just look confused and predictable.

[aurorasooner]

The offense is broken right now. It's really hard for me to understand what they're trying to do on that side of the ball. I think it's a talent issue combined with game planning. The good news is that the defense seems to be playing well, and should only get better. As for the offense, Stoops will have to take a long look at things in the off season and decide what he wants to do. I hope that he's not slow to make a decision (whatever that may be), because right now, we just look confused and predictable. Yeah. Bob is looking just exactly the same as Mack has looked for the last 3 years --- we are going to be a fast tempo spread offense, we're going to run the ball downhill like 'Bama.
Bob has absolutely no clue and worse he doesn't admit there's even a problem with the offense outside of the players just didn't execute. Too many 3rd downs, not even close to enough 1st down makes on 3rd down, way too many 3 and outs which result in our D being on the field too much, too many red-zone failures resulting in zero or at best 3 points. way too many of our opponents defensive players being at exact spot at the LOS to tackle our running backs because our offensive running game is so simple and predictable, etc, etc.
We are in a similar situation the whorns were in a couple of years ago and if Bob doesn't take action quickly with the offense, our fans are going to demand he move on, just as the whorn fans have done with Mack. A similar but worse situation imo because at least the whorns have recruited some quality linemen on both sides of the ball and have some depth there.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You mean we don't have a QB?

[rock on sooner]

You mean we don't have a QB?

I'll repeat something I posted in another thread...Josh NEEDS to be in
Blake's ear when he comes off the field. I believe most of Bell's issues
can be corrected with immediate feedback...Bradford and Jones both
progressed with Josh's insight. I don't know if Norvell is a better playcaller
or not but Josh's talents lie with helping the QB on the sidelines...

[aurorasooner]

You mean we don't have a QB? I don't really know.
I've heard on Bob's many pressers that all of our QBs can throw the ball, he's seen it from all of them in practice. He's also said that we don't recruit any QB who can just simply run and not throw.
If true, then for some reason we're not getting them to do it in the actual games, or they're not being prepared/coached adequately in practice for actual game situations.
My personal opinion is that Landry Jones, for all his faults, covered up many of Heupel's game-planning deficiencies and we're just now seeing the results. I also don't think Heupel has a clue about implementing a quality running play game plan to not only help a struggling QB but to help the defense out by keeping an opponent's offense off the field. Just my opinion, fwiw.
....and another opinion. If Heupel isn't getting it done with his game-planning and Bob doesn't want to remove him from the booth because it could ruin his career or because of his sister's marriage family ties with Boren, then just bring him down to the sidelines and spin it with the press as he's still the OC but we're bringing him down to the sidelines to on-the-field tutor our struggling QBs. If it works and our QBs miraculously start achieving, he's a hero. If nothing changes then wth, it couldn't be any worse than it was Thur. night.

[ashley]

It is funny to read this stuff. Real football people would just shake their head.

[OU_Sooners75]

It is funny to read this stuff. Real football people would just shake their head.

Please enlighten us with your wisdom.

[PhiDeltBeers]

Great post JKM.


Hey, you still have your beast of a GT-R? (Sorry off topic). :)

[Ruf/Nek7]

IMO, i think it is time to go out and hire another Bob Stoops because this one has lost its touch. The last thing we need is to hold onto a coach who will drive us into mediocrity and below.

**cough** texas **cough**

[TXBOOMER]

I have rewatched a lot of the game from last night and Blake Bell is simply too slow too hit a cut back lane or to jet from a stop in the pocket against a fast defense, he locks on to his receivers, he has a very slow wind up and delivery, and he goes through his progressions to slow. This is a result of either poor coaching or poor recruiting. As long nothing changes at that position whether it is by coaching Blake up and demanding improvement or by making a change we are not rebuilding. Jason Whites and Sam Bradfords will spoil your ***.

[SOONER44EVER]

IMO, i think it is time to go out and hire another Bob Stoops because this one has lost its touch. The last thing we need is to hold onto a coach who will drive us into mediocrity and below.

**cough** texas **cough**

He won't take us to mediocrity but he won't win a national championship either. We're stuck being a 9 or 10 win taem who loses 75% of their bowl games. That would be good enough for Texas and OSU fans would be giddy. OU fans............not so much.

[birddog]

Please enlighten us with your wisdom.

Yeah, I'm with you, I'd like to know what this boy/girl knows that makes obvious observations seem ridiculous and off base.

[KantoSooner]

some people have mad powers of insight.

[GDC]

It is funny to read this stuff. Real football people would just shake their head.

It is quite funny to read your stuff. Literate people just shake their heads.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Hey, you still have your beast of a GT-R? (Sorry off topic). :)

Wrong guy, I have a heavily modified GT500

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I have rewatched a lot of the game from last night and Blake Bell is simply too slow too hit a cut back lane or to jet from a stop in the pocket against a fast defense, he locks on to his receivers, he has a very slow wind up and delivery, and he goes through his progressions to slow.

The problem is that he isn't like that on every throw for the game. He has streaks where he flashes some brilliance at timing. He goes 3 straight throws where he is on the money and then 3 straight throws where he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

[Mjcpr]

The problem is that he isn't like that on every throw for the game. He has streaks where he flashes some brilliance at timing. He goes 3 straight throws where he is on the money and then 3 straight throws where he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

True. Some of his throws are perfect strikes that you couldn't throw any better and others, well,.....

[SoonerorLater]

Another question. Why does it seem that our receivers are blanketed on so many plays? These are some of the same guys that were getting open last year when Landry was QB. Now no separation. What's the difference?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Another question. Why does it seem that our receivers are blanketed on so many plays? These are some of the same guys that were getting open last year when Landry was QB. Now no separation. What's the difference?

"Separation" is a funny term. Since football is a time based sequence you have to think about it in terms of pre-throw, throw, and post-throw.

If we consider that we generally go with a 7/3 scheme (7 protectors and 3 routes). What I see is that we have plenty of separation pre-throw, but it is closed down in the throw window. Mostly because the receivers have to slow down when the throw is in the air. In other words, most of our separation issues are on the QB not on the WRs.

There was one throw in particular against Baylor where a guy left his man uncovered while he went to break up a throw to Saunders. Saunders had separation from his man but the window closed during the throw because Blake had locked in on Saunders and the other guy knew he wouldn't go anywhere else.

[Peeb]

He won't take us to mediocrity but he won't win a national championship either. We're stuck being a 9 or 10 win taem who loses 75% of their bowl games. That would be good enough for Texas and OSU fans would be giddy. OU fans............not so much.
Ha ha! You're funny.

Mack is on the way out, and if OSU loses 2 of the next 4, then loses their bowl game- OSU will have a 9 win season.

Giddy? It would be depressing. That would have us winning only 2 of the last 5.

I do agree however, that something is missing this season for the sooners and it's frustrating. Maybe they'll win out from here, but that is unlikely to produce a conference championship (mathematically possible, but I don't care for the odds right now).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

True. Some of his throws are perfect strikes that you couldn't throw any better and others, well,.....

One throw in particular that annoyed the crap out of me was the one where Sterling got hurt. That throw should have been at knee level to protect the receiver. It was pretty much the nail in the coffin for me about whether these guys are being well-coached or not. As a receiver you have to trust that the QB isn't going to get your head knocked off or otherwise you start looking for the hit.

[TXBOOMER]

The problem is that he isn't like that on every throw for the game. He has streaks where he flashes some brilliance at timing. He goes 3 straight throws where he is on the money and then 3 straight throws where he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

I agree he gets streaky occasionally. He had a really good streak in the Kansas game. If they are gonna stick with Blake they need to eliminate the most of his running. He is okay running against average teams but he has no business running against a fast
defense.

[ashley]

I have rewatched a lot of the game from last night and Blake Bell is simply too slow too hit a cut back lane or to jet from a stop in the pocket against a fast defense, he locks on to his receivers, he has a very slow wind up and delivery, and he goes through his progressions to slow. This is a result of either poor coaching or poor recruiting. As long nothing changes at that position whether it is by coaching Blake up and demanding improvement or by making a change we are not rebuilding. Jason Whites and Sam Bradfords will spoil your ***.

Now this is a clear and simple explanation of what is partly wrong. It does not get into goofy ideas as to what is wrong. It is really simple. Our QB cannot run, cannot find receivers because he drops his eyes to the rush and when he does throw he is way to inconsistent. When any team runs the spread the QB must be able to run and have some escape ability or be a very good to outstanding passer with a stud running back, good receivers and O-line. On defense we are OK in the secondary but too many injured players. Since our inside backers and nose are very weak we can't hold up against the run, especially when they run right at our inside.
Way to much is made of the play calling. When your QB is so inept and you have average running backs and only one go to receiver it is too hard to call plays consistently good.
To make it simple, we would be much better if we were just healthy and had a good QB.

[5noubus]

I think the offensive line is a big part of the problem. Recruiting has been down on the OL for a few years now. Our only NFL prospect there wasn't even a lineman coming out of high school. The line is far from the only problem with the offense right now but IMO it is the biggest.
I agree with this ^ I
I know bell isn't our greatest Qb but if someone could block at least maybe the running backs could have a chance too.
I watched many games yesterday and it seems like most qbs have all day to do something .

[Collier11]

Once Millard went down, there is no way we have the OL to be an option running team. There are just way too many defenders running through the line unblocked. We can get away with some toss sweeps to Clay but we just can't block the middle well enough for it to be the focus of the offense. Heck there was one zone read where I thought the guy was going to tackle both Bell and Williams in the backfield.

No offense JKM cus I know that you know your stuff, but in this day and age, any offense that cannot function without a TE is a bad offense. Millard going down should not put us so far behind the 8 ball

[Collier11]

If I were Mikey I woulda punched Heupel right in the gut for that crap heap of a gameplan. I have talked to STEP about this a million times, the issues are clear IMO

1) As 75 said, we are in a rebuilding mode, some fans don't want to admit that. Remember that just 2 years ago we were talking about how the talent level and recruiting had to be improved. Well, that cant be done overnight

2) Heupel IS in fact over his head, his game planning is average and his feel for the game is bad. Feel for the game cannot be taught IMO, and he just doesnt seem to have it.

3) I don't think the RBs are the problem, I think Williams, Finch, and Ford can be game breakers. Problem is that Finch doesn't get on the field enough, Ford is a Fresh that Stoops now holds a grudge with due to fumbling, and Williams more often than not gets hit in the backfield and has to make something out of nothing. His 4.2 ypc has very little to do with him IMO JKM

4) Our WRs are average

5) Our Def is close to being great, unfortunately they aren't there yet and they cant keep us in an entire game against a good team without some help from the Off

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

No offense JKM cus I know that you know your stuff, but in this day and age, any offense that cannot function without a TE is a bad offense. Millard going down should not put us so far behind the 8 ball

It isn't about him being a TE, it is about him being a good consistent blocker. You know as well as I do that the running game can have stalemates everywhere except the point of attack which MUST be won. When you replace a great blocker with an average one at the point of attack, 4 yard gains become 1 yard gains because of all the failed blocks.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

3) I don't think the RBs are the problem, I think Williams, Finch, and Ford can be game breakers. Problem is that Finch doesn't get on the field enough, Ford is a Fresh that Stoops now holds a grudge with due to fumbling, and Williams more often than not gets hit in the backfield and has to make something out of nothing. His 4.2 ypc has very little to do with him IMO JKM


Which is why I said that he is one of those running backs that is dependent on the OL for yards. The other 2 (finch and clay) are less dependent because of elusiveness (and while Clay doesn't seem elusive, he is one of those annoying backs that falls forward for 4 yards after contact).

[8timechamps]

Now this is a clear and simple explanation of what is partly wrong. It does not get into goofy ideas as to what is wrong. It is really simple. Our QB cannot run, cannot find receivers because he drops his eyes to the rush and when he does throw he is way to inconsistent. When any team runs the spread the QB must be able to run and have some escape ability or be a very good to outstanding passer with a stud running back, good receivers and O-line. On defense we are OK in the secondary but too many injured players. Since our inside backers and nose are very weak we can't hold up against the run, especially when they run right at our inside.
Way to much is made of the play calling. When your QB is so inept and you have average running backs and only one go to receiver it is too hard to call plays consistently good.
To make it simple, we would be much better if we were just healthy and had a good QB.

So, basically what had already been said.

[8timechamps]

If I were Mikey I woulda punched Heupel right in the gut for that crap heap of a gameplan. I have talked to STEP about this a million times, the issues are clear IMO

1) As 75 said, we are in a rebuilding mode, some fans don't want to admit that. Remember that just 2 years ago we were talking about how the talent level and recruiting had to be improved. Well, that cant be done overnight

That does get overlooked by many folks. It doesn't help that we're missing 3 key players either.




2) Heupel IS in fact over his head, his game planning is average and his feel for the game is bad. Feel for the game cannot be taught IMO, and he just doesnt seem to have it.

I've been very reluctant to admit this, but the evidence speaks for itself. I don't know if he's out-thinking himself, or just doesn't really know what to do, but something is amiss.



3) I don't think the RBs are the problem, I think Williams, Finch, and Ford can be game breakers. Problem is that Finch doesn't get on the field enough, Ford is a Fresh that Stoops now holds a grudge with due to fumbling, and Williams more often than not gets hit in the backfield and has to make something out of nothing. His 4.2 ypc has very little to do with him IMO JKM

We do have the talent to win, but I still think we are lacking "that" guy, the one RB that stands above the rest, the guy you want to have the ball when things are on the line. It's hard to know what's going on with Ford, but I suspect he's had ball security issues in practice too. Hopefully, that gets resolved.




4) Our WRs are average


I'm on the fence about this. Saunders is a very good receiver, and Shepard has the talent and ability to be very good in the slot. So, it appears we have an above average unit, but I don't know how much talent is behind those guys. Jaz has had moments, as has Neal. I think part of their average play comes from average QB play.




5) Our Def is close to being great, unfortunately they aren't there yet and they cant keep us in an entire game against a good team without some help from the Off

They've played better than most thought they would. I wonder what would be if Phillips and Nelson don't go down after TCU. Still, the future looks really bright on that side of the ball.

[SoonerMarkVA]

I'll repeat something I posted in another thread...Josh NEEDS to be in
Blake's ear when he comes off the field. I believe most of Bell's issues
can be corrected with immediate feedback...Bradford and Jones both
progressed with Josh's insight. I don't know if Norvell is a better playcaller
or not but Josh's talents lie with helping the QB on the sidelines...

Yes, yes, and HECK YES! I didn't like the choice to put Heupel into the booth from day 1, and I've seen nothing that has changed my mind. How could Stoops have missed how valuable Heup is on the sideline for his QBs?

[David Earl]

Bell's passes being off are often what make our WR's look worse than they are. Like JKM pointed out, they get separation, but the pass often forces the WR to hold up, zig toward a defender, or something that minimizes separation. I'm not saying the WR's don't have some problems, but they are being maximized by QB issues... which are being maximized by OL issues... which are being maximized by missing Millard. I think our OL is on the upswing from last year and more talent is coming in. But other problems in a rebuilding year are compounding our difficulties.

We talk a lot about Josh, and that's fair. But some of this might be on Norvel. Outside the program, we may never know.

[SoonerMarkVA]

If I were Mikey I woulda punched Heupel right in the gut for that crap heap of a gameplan. I have talked to STEP about this a million times, the issues are clear IMO

1) As 75 said, we are in a rebuilding mode, some fans don't want to admit that. Remember that just 2 years ago we were talking about how the talent level and recruiting had to be improved. Well, that cant be done overnight

2) Heupel IS in fact over his head, his game planning is average and his feel for the game is bad. Feel for the game cannot be taught IMO, and he just doesnt seem to have it.

3) I don't think the RBs are the problem, I think Williams, Finch, and Ford can be game breakers. Problem is that Finch doesn't get on the field enough, Ford is a Fresh that Stoops now holds a grudge with due to fumbling, and Williams more often than not gets hit in the backfield and has to make something out of nothing. His 4.2 ypc has very little to do with him IMO JKM

4) Our WRs are average

5) Our Def is close to being great, unfortunately they aren't there yet and they cant keep us in an entire game against a good team without some help from the Off

I knew as soon as that ball hit the turf, Ford was done for the day. TMK, he hasn't had a single carry since KU. Good grief, work with the kid on ball protection but keep him in the game! Ford is the most promising RB we've had since Murray, and now he can't find the field because of one fumble!

[ashley]

So, basically what had already been said.

Yes, but doesn't include a bunch of goofy reason that have also been given.

[Collier11]

It isn't about him being a TE, it is about him being a good consistent blocker. You know as well as I do that the running game can have stalemates everywhere except the point of attack which MUST be won. When you replace a great blocker with an average one at the point of attack, 4 yard gains become 1 yard gains because of all the failed blocks.

sorry, meant FB...I misspoke

[tulsaoilerfan]

I am sick of the "let's look to the sideline and get the play and try to get it called before the play clock runs out" offense we have been running since 2009 or whenever it is; how can the QB read the defense when more often than not he is scrambling like hell to get the play called before we get a delay of game? How about we try to execute our plays instead of worrying about getting into the perfect play? I find it hard to blame the players for what this offense has become

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I am sick of the "let's look to the sideline and get the play and try to get it called before the play clock runs out" offense we have been running since 2009 or whenever it is; how can the QB read the defense when more often than not he is scrambling like hell to get the play called before we get a delay of game? How about we try to execute our plays instead of worrying about getting into the perfect play? I find it hard to blame the players for what this offense has become

I don't think there is a poster on this board that will disagree with you.

[Scott D]

I don't think there is a poster on this board that will disagree with you.

or any other board.

The one thing I want as a result of this season is to get rid of this Co-Coordinator crap. That **** didn't work for Texas the last few years and it doesn't work in Norman either.

[Collier11]

It all goes back to Stoops not wanting to ruffle feathers...two guys deserve it in his mind, he doesn't want one to leave, make them Co

[Spray]

I am sick of the "let's look to the sideline and get the play and try to get it called before the play clock runs out" offense we have been running since 2009 or whenever it is; how can the QB read the defense when more often than not he is scrambling like hell to get the play called before we get a delay of game? How about we try to execute our plays instead of worrying about getting into the perfect play? I find it hard to blame the players for what this offense has become

I agree, and coupled with what jkm mentioned earlier about the number of formations and packages we are trying to run, I think the offense, as it is being run, is just way too complicated. Something to consider about Bell is the lack of game experience- he has all of 7 starts in his career. Overcomplicate the offense, and then compress the amount of time he has at the line of scrimmage, and the game will never slow down for him.

And can we stop recruiting 15 WR/DBs every year and start building our damn lines? We could easily get by with 3 star WRs- they're everywhere.

And I vote yes to bringing Heupel to the sidelines and putting Norvell in the booth.

Honestly, I always try to be a long-term, big picture kind of guy. But I've been doing that for 3 years now- not sure I understand what the long-term plan is anymore.

[SoonerorLater]

Just good blocking would be an improvement. To watch the game you would think that OU has an almost religious aversion to second level blocking. Sort of like the 11th commandment....No Linebacker shall be touched.

[sooneron]

I just looked something up that I feared and those fears were realized. OF the 2010 & 2011 recruiting classes, NINETEEN players are no longer on our roster. THese are the guys that should be the backbone of this team. Our recruiting "system", by and large, is a failure. This does not count losing the big three that we lost this year to injury. We aren't on the radar with the recruiting services. Until Bob gets a hot, up and coming Coordinator or a Position coach that can sell sand to an arab, we are screwed as we are presently. That is horrific attrition.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2010

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2011

[8timechamps]

I just looked something up that I feared and those fears were realized. OF the 2010 & 2011 recruiting classes, NINETEEN players are no longer on our roster. THese are the guys that should be the backbone of this team. Our recruiting "system", by and large, is a failure. This does not count losing the big three that we lost this year to injury. We aren't on the radar with the recruiting services. Until Bob gets a hot, up and coming Coordinator or a Position coach that can sell sand to an arab, we are screwed as we are presently. That is horrific attrition.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2010

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2011

This was a large part of the coaching changes in the off season. We were getting guys to commit, but losing them at an alarming rate. If you go back and look at the players that are no longer with the program, a large portion of those guys are offensive/defensive linemen. I think that was a major factor in the hiring of Montgomery and Bedenbaugh.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I just looked something up that I feared and those fears were realized. OF the 2010 & 2011 recruiting classes, NINETEEN players are no longer on our roster. THese are the guys that should be the backbone of this team. Our recruiting "system", by and large, is a failure. This does not count losing the big three that we lost this year to injury. We aren't on the radar with the recruiting services. Until Bob gets a hot, up and coming Coordinator or a Position coach that can sell sand to an arab, we are screwed as we are presently. That is horrific attrition.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2010

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2011

It does include the 2 we lost as early entrants right? Those are the ones that hurt. Not only are you losing starters early, but you are typically losing the best players at that position early.

[tulsaoilerfan]

That 2011 list looks like a Who's that? of Oklahoma football;pretty pathetic if you ask me

[sooneron]

It does include the 2 we lost as early entrants right? Those are the ones that hurt. Not only are you losing starters early, but you are typically losing the best players at that position early.

Not sure, refresh my memory, plzkthnx!

[Soonerjeepman]

From 2011 classs

3 of 4 - 5 stars gone
3 of 5 - 4 stars gone

I do know Dan Tapko (TE from KC) was excited but then quit due to health issues, my brother knows the family. He was a 4 star.

[Collier11]

I just looked something up that I feared and those fears were realized. OF the 2010 & 2011 recruiting classes, NINETEEN players are no longer on our roster. THese are the guys that should be the backbone of this team. Our recruiting "system", by and large, is a failure. This does not count losing the big three that we lost this year to injury. We aren't on the radar with the recruiting services. Until Bob gets a hot, up and coming Coordinator or a Position coach that can sell sand to an arab, we are screwed as we are presently. That is horrific attrition.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2010

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2011

This is what has been addressed in the last two years with coaching changes and philosophy change, takes time though

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Not sure, refresh my memory, plzkthnx!

Whether you included Stills and Jefferson out of the 2010 class

[sooneron]

Whether you included Stills and Jefferson out of the 2010 class

I did.

[sooneron]

One thing that does give me pause on those links I posted is that Millard & Colvin were 3 stars. Only a pause, tho. That's not enough guys "showing up".
One good thing is that even though 2013's class wasn't stellar, they are still here, sans 1 - Kerrick Huggins. Which must say that players aren't bailing. I'm sure one of the resident gurus on here - jkm,8X can clue us in as to when most defections happen. First semester -missing momma's cooking? Second Fall practice-realizing they won't see the field? I'm sure injuries play a part, but that's a tough qualifier in drop outs/transfers.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2013

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

One thing that does give me pause on those links I posted is that Millard & Colvin were 3 stars. Only a pause, tho. That's not enough guys "showing up".
One good thing is that even though 2013's class wasn't stellar, they are still here, sans 1 - Kerrick Huggins. Which must say that players aren't bailing. I'm sure one of the resident gurus on here - jkm,8X can clue us in as to when most defections happen. First semester -missing momma's cooking? Second Fall practice-realizing they won't see the field? I'm sure injuries play a part, but that's a tough qualifier in drop outs/transfers.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2013

Three main reasons in the fall -> Can't handle school, break team rules, view redshirting as a bad thing.
After the fall -> Injury as a freshman, team rules, impatience, school

My personal opinion is that we need to redshirt everyone under 19 to get them to get the books under control (as well as build themselves up) and then we only play RS FR sporadically. This isn't realistic with the 85 scholarship limit, but we have so many career stunting injuries to TR FR and RS FR that it would be something that would help us a LOT. I doubt the NCAA does any kind of statistics on injuries, but based on OU's history I could see some funky pro-like system coming about (one that excludes redshirting freshman and limits the available RS FR available on game day). If it is a universal system, then it can't be used as a negative recruiting tool like it was against us when we redshirted pretty much everyone.

[birddog]

I agree about redshirting if you have the luxury to do that. It seems to me we have way too many true frosh playing due to losing upperclassmen not panning out, leaving due to lack of playing time, or, injuries. I would hope in the off-season the coaches will identify who the main core of players will be because of the amount of frosh playing this season. Hit the reset button and work with the young talent that will be around for the next few years. Right now it just looks like the talent, although young, is pretty thin.

[8timechamps]

One thing that does give me pause on those links I posted is that Millard & Colvin were 3 stars. Only a pause, tho. That's not enough guys "showing up".
One good thing is that even though 2013's class wasn't stellar, they are still here, sans 1 - Kerrick Huggins. Which must say that players aren't bailing. I'm sure one of the resident gurus on here - jkm,8X can clue us in as to when most defections happen. First semester -missing momma's cooking? Second Fall practice-realizing they won't see the field? I'm sure injuries play a part, but that's a tough qualifier in drop outs/transfers.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=8&toinid=667&yr=2013

Just looking at 2011:

Kellen Jones (4 star) - followed Brent to Clemson
Bennett Okotcha (3 star) - Recruited by Brent, didn't get along with Mike Stoops.
Dan Tapko (4 star) - Retired for health reasons.
Dylan Dismuke (3 star) - Retired for health reasons.
Archie Bradley (3 star) - Drafted high in MLB draft, went to play baseball.
Max Stevenson (4 star) - Quit after suffering a pectoral injury.
Brandon Williams (5 star) - Transferred to A&M to "be close to his daughter".
Trey Metoyer (5 star) - Exposure issues. :)
Kameel Jackson (3 star) - Suspended the kicked off team. Later suspended from ULM for grade issues.

So, of the 9 guys gone, 2 left because of coaching changes, 2 left due to injury, 2 were kicked off the team, 1 transferred and 1 decided to play major league baseball.

All classes see some attrition, but 2011 was not an average year. Coaching changes probably added more departures than the norm, and the class was small to begin with (19 commits). I never really considered Archie Bradley a legit commitment (because everyone knew if he was drafter high, he was playing pro baseball).

Max Stevenson left because he was frustrated after his injury, but I think the position coaches at the time had something to do with that.

In the end, Bob made the changes in the off season due to this type of stuff (among other things).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Pec tears. That is one thing that might fall on our S&C coach. It isn't uncommon for us to have 2 of those per year, yet following the pros it is a very, very rare injury. Even worse is the fact that it happens to JR/SR starters just as much as freshman.

[8timechamps]

Pec tears. That is one thing that might fall on our S&C coach. It isn't uncommon for us to have 2 of those per year, yet following the pros it is a very, very rare injury. Even worse is the fact that it happens to JR/SR starters just as much as freshman.

I can understand a LB or DE caught in a bad position, reaching for the ball carrier, suffering a pec tear. I still don't know how it happened to Stevenson. He was a Tight End, so he shouldn't have even been in a position to get caught reaching. Just a strange deal.

[Soonerjeepman]

8time...
you forgot 5 star Nathan Hughes...at least I didn't see him on roster. That's 3 of the 4 / 5 star guys gone

[Soonerjeepman]

I can understand a LB or DE caught in a bad position, reaching for the ball carrier, suffering a pec tear. I still don't know how it happened to Stevenson. He was a Tight End, so he shouldn't have even been in a position to get caught reaching. Just a strange deal.

maybe one of Bell's picks in practice and he was tackling..lol ( I kid)

[8timechamps]

8time...
you forgot 5 star Nathan Hughes...at least I didn't see him on roster. That's 3 of the 4 / 5 star guys gone

Good catch. Hughes was moved from DL to OL, and ended up being a reserve OL (not even really in the rotation). He left after last year, and that's the last I heard of him. There was mention that he may try to play at North Texas, but I don't think that ever happened.

Hughes, in my opinion, was another mis-evaluated player by Shipp. I think in the last couple of years, Shipp wasn't really doing much evaluating.

[Soonerjeepman]

agree,
the lines are not good....hopefully that will change.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Good catch. Hughes was moved from DL to OL, and ended up being a reserve OL (not even really in the rotation). He left after last year, and that's the last I heard of him. There was mention that he may try to play at North Texas, but I don't think that ever happened.

Hughes, in my opinion, was another mis-evaluated player by Shipp. I think in the last couple of years, Shipp wasn't really doing much evaluating.

Personally I think he let Rivals do his evaluating from 2005 on. Corey Bennett was the last guy he really went out and found.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I know some of his "recruiting time" was spent on the golf course..or a lot of it.