Christie the Pubs new leader?

[okie52]

Christie Sets Out to Prove GOP Can Build New Base
Friday, 01 Nov 2013 12:02 PM
By Melanie Batley

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is entering his final week of campaigning for re-election with high expectations for a landslide victory, but his larger goal is to show the Republican Party that it can broaden its appeal nationally to attract more moderate or left-leaning voters, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Political strategists predict that if Christie pulls a substantial amount of votes in Tuesday's election from non-traditional groups, such as Hispanics and women, it would defy the current view among many within the GOP that moderate party members are no longer viable GOP presidential contenders. If he's successful, the governor, decried by some in the party as a Republican in name only, would likely have a front position at the start of the race for the 2016 GOP presidential nomination.

"Christie should have a strong case starting next week that his appeal among all types of Americans establishes him as an instant Republican front-runner for 2016, should he decide to run," Frank Malek, a longtime GOP adviser, told the Journal.

Christie has focused on building relationships with minority voters and non-Republican supporters during his first term as governor in New Jersey. Notably, a seven-day bus tour this week saw him visit a number of diverse communities.

His attempts to reach out to core Democratic groups on a national level, however, may not go down well with more conservative GOP voters in other parts of the country, the Journal reports. Nonetheless, he has already begun to amass a significant national donor base.

"The electability argument in primaries never has as much salience as a lot of people think," Steve Bogden, a former adviser to the presidential campaign of onetime Republican candidate Jon Huntsman, told the Journal.

Christie has already piled up a number of successes that demonstrate his national popularity.

That could help him as he stumps for support in the Republican primaries against what is expected to be a much more conservative slate of challengers. For example, he won widespread praise for his response to Hurricane Sandy a year ago. His vocal criticism of Washington conservatives for their role in the unpopular government shutdown has also helped his standing with many in and outside the party.

The true hallmark of his re-election bid, however, has been a focus on recruiting support from traditional Democratic constituencies, the Journal noted. He has already demonstrated tangible success in the polls with Hispanics and blacks.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/christie-gop-base-moderates/2013/11/01/id/534342#ixzz2jPcQdHKW
.

[KantoSooner]

What goes down well in New Jersey, particularly in the aftermath of his actions following Sandy might or might not translate to a national audience.

[okie52]

If you are speaking about the Republican base, I agree.

[KantoSooner]

Or in his abilty to draw indiependents and dems to vote for him. He's got more mojo in NJ than he will in most other places. For obvious and pretty good reasons, but I'm not sure his appeal translates outside of that area.

[Ton Loc]

I like that guy.

He's fat, has talked **** about both sides, and seems not to be an idiot. I'm sure the pubs as a whole will hate him. Sucks, every republican guy I could possibly like gets beat down well before I get a chance to vote for him.

[okie52]

I'm not a supporter of Christie...but I think he has appeal to moderates and independents far outside New England. He does have some ability at consensus building because on many issues he appears pragmatic...something lacking among many candidates right or left.

I say appears because he is first and foremost self serving in his positions...this is true of many politicians but it doesn't always lend itself to pragmatic approaches to the issues...unless, of course, you are only being pragmatic in a self serving nature rather than for the national good.

[rock on sooner]

One of only two Pubs I know that has common sense AND isn't
afraid to speak said common sense.....Colin Powell is the other.

[okie52]

One of only two Pubs I know that has common sense AND isn't
afraid to speak said common sense.....Colin Powell is the other.

I detest Colin Powell...he endorsed Obama twice with little substance to support those endorsements.

[rock on sooner]

I detest Colin Powell...he endorsed Obama twice with little substance to support those endorsements.

Welp, Okie, all I can say is he chose the lesser of two evils....TWICE...

[okie52]

Welp, Okie, all I can say is he chose the lesser of two evils....TWICE...

You can say that but how does that square with his "republican" ideals? What was Obama offering that seemed to "fit" more with Republican approaches to issues than McCain or Romney? I'd never heard of Powell endorsing a dem until Obama...probably just a coincidence.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Hell no! I wouldn't vote for him to wipe my arse...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Welp, Okie, all I can say is he chose the most evil....TWICE...

FIFY...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Hell no! I wouldn't vote for him to wipe my arse...Dude oughta be honest and re-register as a dem. he would get more votes that way, too.

[okiewaker]

Goofy azz politicians. Ppl follow'em like they rock stars. Christie is a fat turd,,,playin to all the sides he needs to. All these politicians got the public captivated like a soap opera. Makes me sick to see ppl with grey matter fall prey to all garbage they sling.

[rock on sooner]

You can say that but how does that square with his "republican" ideals? What was Obama offering that seemed to "fit" more with Republican approaches to issues than McCain or Romney? I'd never heard of Powell endorsing a dem until Obama...probably just a coincidence.

Just a guess on my part but McCain picking Palin plus being more
than a little "wacky" and Romney just being Romney probably
figured in his decisions. If Powell weren't so prominent I doubt
he would have even gone public with his endorsements. Powell is
a pragmatic, common sense kinda guy. I think he looked at the
choices, sighed and picked, just because he was asked so often.

[olevetonahill]

Welp, Okie, all I can say is he chose the Greater of two evils....TWICE...

Fixed that fer ya, Ya was a Bit confused I think. :surprise:

[okie52]

Just a guess on my part but McCain picking Palin plus being more
than a little "wacky" and Romney just being Romney probably
figured in his decisions. If Powell weren't so prominent I doubt
he would have even gone public with his endorsements. Powell is
a pragmatic, common sense kinda guy. I think he looked at the
choices, sighed and picked, just because he was asked so often.

Let's see...so Powell thought Obama's energy policies were good for national security and the economy. That a cap and trade program at the height of the recession would be good for the economy .

There isn't a shred of pragmatism in that....And Powell knows (or should know)how important energy independence is to our national security, economy, foreign policy and trade deficit.

Hell, Powell even went so far as to give credit to Obama for ending the war in Iraq when the agreement for the US troop withdrawal was signed by bush long before Obama ever took office.

I laugh at powells pragmatic choice of Obama.

[okiewaker]

Powell was being pragmatic in his endorsement of sheetbird? If he was pragmatic he would have endorsed Romney.

Powell went against what he believes to choose a man of his own color!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I laugh at powells pragmatic choice of Obama.and, to think he was a General in the US Military!!!

[SanJoaquinSooner]

If you are speaking about the Republican base, I agree.

If Ann Coulter represents the base, then I also agree.

[okie52]

If Ann Coulter represents the base, then I also agree.

Could be....it's an illegal hating base....not an open borders loving base there juan. I don't think they are really interested in getting your family's vote.

[FaninAma]

More immigrant's from Mexico=more entitlement handouts=higher deficits for my kids to pay off. Juan, do you really have family members here illegally or are you just trolling?

[yermom]

maybe Powell was going with the winner?

once McCain went off the deep end with Palin, there was no way for him to win, and Romney wasn't exciting for anyone except people that just hated Obama

[soonerhubs]

maybe Powell was going with the winner?

once McCain went off the deep end with Palin, there was no way for him to win, and Romney wasn't exciting for anyone except people that just hated Obama

I agree with this.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

maybe Powell was going with the winner?

once McCain went off the deep end with Palin, there was no way for him to win, and Romney wasn't exciting for anyone except people that just hated ObamaPalin was the only reason McCain did as well as he did. Entitlement mentality, uninformed/misinformed voters and voter fraud have put the USA into longtime downgrade.The '06 midterm elections were ominous portends of the future.

[FaninAma]

Palin was the only reason McCain did as well as he did. Entitlement mentality, uninformed/misinformed voters and voter fraud have put the USA into longtime downgrade.The '06 midterm elections were ominous portends of the future.
Bingo. The only way the trend will change is for the system to collapse as it eventually will.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Bingo. The only way the trend will change is for the system to collapse as it eventually will.Sadly. The nation is broken.

[yermom]

Palin was the only reason McCain did as well as he did. Entitlement mentality, uninformed/misinformed voters and voter fraud have put the USA into longtime downgrade.The '06 midterm elections were ominous portends of the future.

Palin made it so that no rational person in the middle could vote for McCain. maybe all the wackadoos that hated Obama and anything D loved her, but they weren't voting D anyway

[Turd_Ferguson]

Palin made it so that no rational person in the middle could vote for McCain. maybe all the wackadoos that hated Obama and anything D loved her, but they weren't voting D anyway

Yet all the lib's were ok with Biden. I'd like you to tell me just how Biden was any better than Palin...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Palin is a good person, and she was very effectively demonized. That it was able to happen is a demonstration of how messed up the electorate, and the consequently the country, are.

[yermom]

who gives a **** about Biden? did he keep Obama from being elected?

how far on the fringe is he? how often is he in the news saying stupid ****?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

no rational person in the middlenow, that's rational.

[diverdog]

Sadly. The nation is broken.

You really need to travel. I have been to a lot of third world **** holes and I thank god every day I was born in America. This is the best frick'in place on the planet. End of debate.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You really need to travel. I have been to a lot of third world **** holes and I thank god every day I was born in America. This is the best frick'in place on the planet. End of debate.Have you erroneously or willfully(pick one) misconstrued my comments to mean that the I think the job is completed?

[Turd_Ferguson]

who gives a **** about Biden? did he keep Obama from being elected?

how far on the fringe is he? how often is he in the news saying stupid ****?

No, he didn't keep Obama from being elected since Obama had the black thing going for him. Not sure about being on the fringe, but if you can honestly ask about him saying stupid ****? Really?

[okiewaker]

Palin is considered on the "fringe"? That's just ridiculous. Please post her positions on issues which make her far right.

[rock on sooner]

Palin is a good person, and she was very effectively demonized. That it was able to happen is a demonstration of how messed up the electorate, and the consequently the country, are.

Umm, RLIMC, you and I go back and forth on a bunch of stuff, but,
rilly, now have you listened to the things that she put forth? Never mind
the stuff that was/is factually incorrect, that lady is doing nothing but
milking the Pubs fer all she can git! Sad thing is, they let her do it! (And,
she's gittin a bunch!)

[diverdog]

Have you erroneously or willfully(pick one) misconstrued my comments to mean that the I think the job is completed?

Learn to speak English because I have no idea what you are talking about.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Umm, RLIMC, you and I go back and forth on a bunch of stuff, but,
rilly, now have you listened to the things that she put forth? Never mind
the stuff that was/is factually incorrect, that lady is doing nothing but
milking the Pubs fer all she can git! Sad thing is, they let her do it! (And,
she's gittin a bunch!)Oh, stop it! that's such crap. If you keep plugged in to Leftist propaganda, I guess it's little wonder you say that nonsense.

And spare us that you think she's taking advantage of that poor ole republican party. So silly it's hard to fathom anyone believes that stuff.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Learn to speak English because I have no idea what you are talking about.condolences, tiger.

[rock on sooner]

Oh, stop it! that's such crap. If you keep plugged in to Leftist propaganda, I guess it's little wonder you say that nonsense.

And spare us that you think she's taking advantage of that poor ole republican party. So silly it's hard to fathom anyone believes that stuff.

'K...

[yermom]

Palin is considered on the "fringe"? That's just ridiculous. Please post her positions on issues which make her far right.

other than the general religious right BS?

i'm sure she could have prayed our economy better by now if she was in charge

[rock on sooner]

Oh, stop it! that's such crap. If you keep plugged in to Leftist propaganda, I guess it's little wonder you say that nonsense.

And spare us that you think she's taking advantage of that poor ole republican party. So silly it's hard to fathom anyone believes that stuff.

If it was propaganda, I'd fess up. I just read about the stuff she spits
out. She listens to her hubby and between them it is farther right
than Cruz. It just amounts to red meat to keep stuff goin'.

That's okay...it really does feed into a remarkedly tough 2014, even
moreso 2016 for the right. You guys are working overtime to bury
yourselves.....thanks for that. The sadness is, imo, if rational thought
were to prevail, maybe, just maybe some smart thinking might come from
both sides and, as a country, we could get better.

Look back over my political posts and you'll see that I'm not blowin' smoke!
I just want our gov't to work....so much needs to be done and so many people
need help....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

such crap

[okiewaker]

other than the general religious right BS?

i'm sure she could have prayed our economy better by now if she was in charge

Please elaborate on her religious right BS.

[FaninAma]

The Democrats run a product from the most liberal, unethical political machine in the country(Chicago) and the loons on the left fall down and worship him like they belong to some god damned cult. Morons all.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The Democrats run a product from the most liberal, unethical political machine in the country(Chicago) and the loons on the left fall down and worship him like they belong to some god damned cult. Morons all.and, we put those criminal jerkwads in charge of...everything. The clock is ticking.

Hurry up, entitleists, get it while you can.

[yermom]

The Democrats run a product from the most liberal, unethical political machine in the country(Chicago) and the loons on the left fall down and worship him like they belong to some god damned cult. Morons all.

because the Republicans are be bastion of morality and ethics

[KantoSooner]

Leaving aside Palin's positions on domestic issues, her utter ignorance of anything having to do with foreign policy and aggressive defense of the righteousness of said ignorance disqualify her from holding the Vice Presidency.
Stupid can be fixed, but not if the stupid is unwilling to try.

[Ton Loc]

What are you all talking about?

Apparently not Christie. That fat dude only made it 6 posts in before getting derailed into a topic that was run into the ground years ago = Palin. Even though I do like to see Rush struggle in backing her up (unsuccessfully) for what must be the 500th time.

[KantoSooner]

Sorry.

[yermom]

What are you all talking about?

Apparently not Christie. That fat dude only made it 6 posts in before getting derailed into a topic that was run into the ground years ago = Palin. Even though I do like to see Rush struggle in backing her up (unsuccessfully) for what must be the 500th time.

please keep up, he's too fat, and he said more than two words that weren't derogatory about Obama

no chance.

[Ton Loc]

please keep up, he's too fat, and he said more than two words that weren't derogatory about Obama

no chance.

Well ****. I'd really like to see a fat president again. Somewhat imposing in size and not the two tiny weaklings that were/are Bush and Obama.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Apparently Christie has lots of baggage and ethics problems...His family sounds as if they could give the Carter's a run for their money. Not stupid and red neck like Jimmy's brother Billy, but criminal and racketeering like...

[rock on sooner]

Apparently Christie has lots of baggage and ethics problems...His family sounds as if they could give the Carter's a run for their money. Not stupid and red neck like Jimmy's brother Billy, but criminal and racketeering like...

I hadn't heard about any Christie ties to the Mafia...I just googled
that and found a piece dated 10-17-09 about just that. I scrolled
down to the bottom and up popped a pic of a campaign button for
another politician, so I wonder about it some. The piece did say that
Christie was questioned by reporters and his comment was pretty
much a brush off. If Christie does get into the race for prez, I wonder
if someone will dig up the dirt? Heh, Probably buried in a NJ parking
lot somewhere, next to Hoffa....

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So much so that Romney wanted certain information and pledges from Christie prior to announcing his VP choice. Christy said no and Romney took him off the list.

[okie52]

Haley Barbour: Christie Has 'Real Potential' as Presidential Candidate
Monday, 04 Nov 2013 12:57 PM
By Dan Weil

Washington is proving itself dysfunctional, former Mississippi GOP Gov. Haley Barbour said Monday.

"For governors who get paid to do things, you know, it really is concerning that Washington’s just constipated," he told CNBC.

"I mean there’s just nothing else you can say about it. The president doesn’t lead. The Republicans, I thought, really did themselves a lot of damage [in the government shutdown]. The Democrats are not interested in working together. And there’s nothing to recommend it right now."

New Medicare Warning: Obamacare Rule Changes Coming

The GOP should hitch its wagons to successful governors, Barbour said.

"If you look at governors and their records of success, whether it’s Scott Walker [of Wisconsin], [Ohio's] John Kasich — Rick Perry from Texas has had a fantastic run," he said.

"And that’s where we are actually in control. Chris Christie tomorrow’s going to win a huge victory in New Jersey, a Democratic state. Why? Because he’s done a good job. That’s what people want, somebody to get the job done."

Christie is expected to win re-election Tuesday in New Jersey by a significant margin over Democratic challenger state Sen. Barbara Buono.

Christie could make a strong presidential candidate, Barbour said. "I think the guy has got real potential and such huge advantage for him to be in the New York media market. He has seen so much more than the governor of Louisiana or the governor of Wisconsin."


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/barbour-christie-presidential-candidate/2013/11/04/id/534669#ixzz2jiaNujCc .

[SanJoaquinSooner]

How Christie could save the GOP:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101167798

don't bash the messenger.

[rock on sooner]

Okie, I've never understood why Haley Barbour is so highly regarded among
the Pubs. His home state of Mississippi is at the bottom of almost every list
of measures...highest teen pregnancies, lowest for health, gets the most fed
handouts, third from bottom on littering ...list goes on, yet he is trotted out
as a voice for the Pubs. What am I missing? (serious question, not trying to
agitate)...

[okie52]

He is not highly regarded by me. I only posted an article showing his support for Christie as Barbour is nationally known....but he is hardly representative of southern repubs and his inability to garner much support for a presidential run is illustrative of that point.

[okie52]

How Christie could save the GOP:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101167798

don't bash the messenger.


Juan, do you think christie would help your extended family get across the border?

[rock on sooner]

He is not highly regarded by me. I only posted an article showing his support for Christie as Barbour is nationally known....but he is hardly representative of southern repubs and his inability to garner much support for a presidential run is illustrative of that point.

Maybe he's a self appointed spokesperson...he shows up on a lot
of Sunday morning shows and, around election time, he appears
to be ubiquitous...have always been curious about why...

[okie52]

Democrats Flood Jersey in Cash to Thwart Christie's Presidential Hopes
Tuesday, 05 Nov 2013 11:02 AM
By Lisa Furgison

A record-breaking motherlode of outside cash flowed into New Jersey in an effort to keep Republican Gov. Chris Christie from being in a position to implement his second term agenda.

Though Democrats recognize they have virtually no hope of defeating Christie in his bid for reelection, they hope they can keep their majorities in both houses of the Legislature to thwart his programs, reports The New York Times.

The party hopes that may toss a wrench into Christie's potential bid for president in 2016.

Democrats hold a 24-16 majority in the New Jersey Senate and a 48-32 advantage in the Assembly. However many Democrat senators regularly back Christie, so losing a handful of seats could effectively give the governor majority backing in the Upper House, the Times reports.

As of last Thursday, the state election office said, outside spending for candidates hit $35 million., with Democrats raising more than twice as much as the GOP. The figure is double the amount spent when Christie ran in 2009, before the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision that allowed corporations and unions to donate unlimited funds to political causes.

The New Jersey Education Association alone spent nearly $12 million for Democrats, more than the entire Republican budget with the Fund for Jobs, Growth and Security racking up a further $7.6 million. They are targeting nine districts where, the Times reports "Republicans are trying to capitalize on Mr. Christie’s expected coattails."

"These groups are now operating as surrogate parties," Jeffrey Brindle, executive director of the New Jersey Election Law Enforcement Commission, told the Times. "They are assuming all of the roles that parties have performed in our past."

While an unheard of amount of money pours into the state, polls shows Christie has a massive lead over his Democratic opponent Barbara Buono, and is virtually assured victory on Tuesday.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/democrats-campaign-cash-christie/2013/11/05/id/534869#ixzz2jmvS8XXB
.

[KantoSooner]

He's held a lot of party jobs and raised beaucoup money for the party. He was also a big time and early supporter of the highly successful party strategy to concentrate time and effort on gubenatorial races. So, he's not the face of the party, but he's got some markers out there to call in.

[KantoSooner]

Barber that is.

[okie52]

*Barbour

[rock on sooner]

He's held a lot of party jobs and raised beaucoup money for the party. He was also a big time and early supporter of the highly successful party strategy to concentrate time and effort on gubenatorial races. So, he's not the face of the party, but he's got some markers out there to call in.

Too bad he didn't do more for Mississippi....

[KantoSooner]

Yeah, caught that just after hitting submit. But I'd been distracted on the first one and it got delayed, so I was in a hurry on the second. Mea Culpa.

[KantoSooner]

Too bad he didn't do more for Mississippi....

Hey, he was out front on Katrina relief. And, really, Mississippi has been sort of an armpit of the nation since forever, so I'm not sure we can blame him completely on that score.

[okie52]

Too bad he didn't do more for Mississippi....

Its not like Clinton turned Arkansas into a high tech state. Barbour inherited a bad situation and probably didn't do much to advance it....same for Clinton.

[rock on sooner]

Its not like Clinton turned Arkansas into a high tech state. Barbour inherited a bad situation and probably didn't do much to advance it....same for Clinton.

Well, I read Clinton's book..."My Life". In it he wrote at length about
working with Sam Walton to keep jobs in Arkie, as well as infrastructure
improvements, health, etc. Certainly, his book would be one sided and
designed to make him look good, etc, etc....but haven't seen or heard
about Barbour, who had two terms to try to improve things is MS. Yup,
he did good on the Katrina issue. Sure seemed to like prisoner pardons,
though. Barbour did have a "funny" line for the 2012 elections. Talking
about Christie and his keynoter for the Convention "hoping that Christie
would put a hot poker to Obama.

My whole point about Barbour, though, is the state he left MS in....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, I read Clinton's book..."My Life". In it he wrote at length about
working with Sam Walton to keep jobs in Arkie, as well as infrastructure
improvements, health, etc. Certainly, his book would be one sided and
designed to make him look good, etc, etc....but haven't seen or heard
about Barbour, who had two terms to try to improve things is MS. Yup,
he did good on the Katrina issue. Sure seemed to like prisoner pardons,
though. Barbour did have a "funny" line for the 2012 elections. Talking
about Christie and his keynoter for the Convention "hoping that Christie
would put a hot poker to Obama.

My whole point about Barbour, though, is the state he left MS in....You went to the trouble to read a book "authored by" der Schlickmeister! Remarkable!

[okie52]

Well, I read Clinton's book..."My Life". In it he wrote at length about
working with Sam Walton to keep jobs in Arkie, as well as infrastructure
improvements, health, etc. Certainly, his book would be one sided and
designed to make him look good, etc, etc....but haven't seen or heard
about Barbour, who had two terms to try to improve things is MS. Yup,
he did good on the Katrina issue. Sure seemed to like prisoner pardons,
though. Barbour did have a "funny" line for the 2012 elections. Talking
about Christie and his keynoter for the Convention "hoping that Christie
would put a hot poker to Obama.

My whole point about Barbour, though, is the state he left MS in....

I'm not saying that either Barbour or Clinton didn't help their state...I'm just not sure how measurable any of it is in terms of poverty, wages, unwanted pregnancies, etc... If they were near the bottom it would take a while to move up. Probably after they were out of office before any real effects of their policies would be noticed.

Walton is an Okie....too bad he didn't move here. Where was he considering moving his business?

[rock on sooner]

I'm not saying that either Barbour or Clinton didn't help their state...I'm just not sure how measurable any of it is in terms of poverty, wages, unwanted pregnancies, etc... If they were near the bottom it would take a while to move up. Probably after they were out of office before any real effects of their policies would be noticed.

Walton is an Okie....too bad he didn't move here. Where was he considering moving his business?

He wasn't going to move Walmart but he did get with Clinton to keep
a TV mfgr in Arkie, by putting the product in Walmart stores. Walmart
is ruthless with its vendors and is big enough to dry up entire production
runs. That's how Clinton saved a bunch of jobs.

[rock on sooner]

You went to the trouble to read a book "authored by" der Schlickmeister! Remarkable!

Heh, Rush, I read quite a bit now that I'm retired. I even read Ted
Kennedy's memoir!:highly_amused:

[okie52]

He wasn't going to move Walmart but he did get with Clinton to keep
a TV mfgr in Arkie, by putting the product in Walmart stores. Walmart
is ruthless with its vendors and is big enough to dry up entire production
runs. That's how Clinton saved a bunch of jobs.

Yep...Walmart is tough on the vendors...no doubt about it.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Yeah, caught that just after hitting submit. But I'd been distracted on the first one and it got delayed, so I was in a hurry on the second. Mea Culpa.

You misspelled some words as well, but I don't want you to have a melt down over it...

[rock on sooner]

Yep...Walmart is tough on the vendors...no doubt about it.

A short true story...friend of mine works for Nestle and at one time
called on Walmart in Bentonville...vendors have offices on the campus.
Walmart wanted a particular flavor tea and made the rep sell them the
entire production...at Walmart's chosen price point....and kept it out
of competitors for a full season. How'd they do it? Promised to NOT
carry the entire product line....

[okie52]

A short true story...friend of mine works for Nestle and at one time
called on Walmart in Bentonville...vendors have offices on the campus.
Walmart wanted a particular flavor tea and made the rep sell them the
entire production...at Walmart's chosen price point....and kept it out
of competitors for a full season. How'd they do it? Promised to NOT
carry the entire product line....

Pphil has been a vendor for Walmart I believe....they'll have you walking the plank if you don't bend over.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Heh, Rush, I read quite a bit now that I'm retired. I even read Ted
Kennedy's memoir!:highly_amused:What did he say about Chappaquiddick?...didn't happen?

[rock on sooner]

What did he say about Chappaquiddick?...didn't happen?

Ummm, dint come up much in the conversation....:wink:
Now, rilly, wud yew bring it up?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Have you read any books by conservative politicians or economists? If so, pls discuss.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Pphil has been a vendor for Walmart I believe....they'll have you walking the plank if you don't bend over.

So did Phil walk the plank or did he bend over?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Juan, do you think christie would help your extended family get across the border?

The two sisters-in-law have been waiting in line since they were teenagers, and now they are in their thirties. I think both parties would agree to expedite the processing. What the disagreement is over is mainly the citizenship issue for those illegally present.

I have no idea if Christie would help, or in general would make a good president.

[rock on sooner]

Have you read any books by conservative politicians or economists? If so, pls discuss.

Can't think of any worth reading..give me some suggestions and I'll
consider...

[okie52]

Excerpt from an article on Christie:


Despite Easy Win, Christie Still at War With GOP Base
Tuesday, 05 Nov 2013 10:24 PM
By John Gizzi


By winning Tuesday night in a landslide election for his second term as governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie moved so far to the left, it may be difficult for him to win the Republican nomination for president come 2016.

The GOP governor won in one of the bluest states, where President Barack Obama beat Republican Mitt Romney by 18 points in 2012. To win, Christie had to morph close to not only blue-state values and views, but become close to Obama himself — and he did just that.

Key positions Christie has taken in New Jersey — backing Al Gore's view that global warming is "for real" and caused by humans; his public slamming of the National Rifle Association and conservatives such as GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky; his acquiescence to gay marriage — all will come back to haunt him in what likely will be a fierce Republican primary fight ahead.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/christie-win-governor-jersey/2013/11/05/id/535011#ixzz2jscSSfTV

[KantoSooner]

And that's the conundrum facing the Republican Party: any candidate who can win the general election is too centrist/liberal/whathaveyou to win a Republican primary.

In a sense it's the same sort of thing you see with candidates in general.

The process produces candidates tuned to the process. We elect excellent fundraisers and then bemoan that that is all they are equipped to do; but then do nothing to dismantle a system which rewards fundraising over all else.

[okie52]

So did Phil walk the plank or did he bend over?

Heh, I think phil chose to bend over but I better let him answer that...

[okie52]

Christie's moderate stances on many issues don't bother me. I don't care about tighter gun control laws, nor gay marriage, nor his belief in global warming. It's his actions regarding those subjects that could be alienating. Would he be as foolish as Obama and try to invoke a unilateral cap and trade policy on the US because he believes in AGW? His support of gay marriage is fine but he outlawed the right of counselors and/or parents that would seek to convert gays to heterosexuals ( a flawed concept IMO but it shouldn't be outlawed).

Typically candidates gravitate more to the left or right during the primaries of the dems and pubs and then move back towards the center in the general election. Now that Christie has been reelected I would expect him to start trotting out that he is a real "conservative" and a real "republican" until the primaries end in 2016. Hillary will do the same on the dem side. Hillary has such a big lead on the dem side it will be interesting to see if any dem candidate are going to really challenge her record...like a Biden.

[yermom]

Clinton or Biden would be a disaster unless the R's choose another Romney IMO

[okie52]

Clinton seems to be the leader in the polls...of course, she was 5 years ago, too.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Can't think of any worth reading..give me some suggestions and I'll
consider...
Milton Friedmann: "Free to Choose"
Mark Levin: "Liberty and Tyranny"

You owe it to yourself to read either or both of these.

[rock on sooner]

Milton Friedmann: "Free to Choose"
Mark Levin: "Liberty and Tyranny"

You owe it to yourself to read either or both of these.

'K...

[KantoSooner]

I'd suggest Von Hayek's The Path to Serfdom.

[rock on sooner]

Milton Friedmann: "Free to Choose"
Mark Levin: "Liberty and Tyranny"

You owe it to yourself to read either or both of these.

Don't have the books on hand to read but I'll look for them at a couple
of used book stores I know about.

Did some research, though...best thing about Levin is his support for
our military...advisor to Meese, Limbaugh (your clone) and Hannity...
full disclosure here..."L" and "H" are two of my least favorite people on
the planet. Levin is pretty rough on the Supreme Court (both sides).

Friedman I knew some about but research shows he was pro....
negative income tax (gov't handout?), legalize drugs and prostitution,
supported gay rights, volunteer military, school vouchers, steady supply
of increasing amounts of money (says The Great Depression might have
been avoided if the gov't had done that), free floating money exchanges
and the elimination of medical licenses (curious..)....Certainly a deep and
creative thinker...

Thanks for the suggestions....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Don't have the books on hand to read but I'll look for them at a couple
of used book stores I know about.

Limbaugh and Hannity are two of my least favorite people on
the planet.

Thanks for the suggestions....Good. Those two books I mentioned you SHOULD read.
I contend you know more what lib commentators say about Hannity and Limbaugh than what they really think and have to say. Hannity I like and agree with on most things, but he is dry, and not inspiring. Limbaugh does agree with most of my ideas(hence, him being my clone)AND he's an interesting and entertaining guy.

You should read his book "The Way Things Ought to Be". It's dated by dealing with politics at the time, but the political and economic philosophies he espouses are timeless.

[rock on sooner]

Rush, I formed my own opinions about Hannity and Limbaugh, by
listening to them. Hannity on his tv shows back during elections...
Limbaugh and his radio stuff...driving across Nebraska, he is the
ONLY thing on...I even watched Limbaugh's late night tv show, where
all the men had to wear coats and ties. He was then and is now a
pompous SOB who denigrates any lib female when he talks about
them and pull some of the craziest stuff out of his backside. Pretty
much a hypocrite on some things. Having said all that, it is really
something about how he has so many devoted fans/followers....one
of life's great mysteries, imo. One of the Pubs' main problems is that
he is perceived as a leader in and of the party.

To your point about lib commentators...if all I did was go based on what
they have to say about Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Ingraham et al
then I'd be farther left than Coulter is right and I'm not sure that is possible.

Funny how this thread started out about Christie.....:cheerful:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Rush, I formed my own opinions about Hannity and Limbaugh, by
listening to them. Hannity on his tv shows back during elections...
Limbaugh and his radio stuff...driving across Nebraska, he is the
ONLY thing on...I even watched Limbaugh's late night tv show, where
all the men had to wear coats and ties. He was then and is now a
pompous SOB who denigrates any lib female when he talks about
them and pull some of the craziest stuff out of his backside. Pretty
much a hypocrite on some things. Having said all that, it is really
something about how he has so many devoted fans/followers....one
of life's great mysteries, imo. One of the Pubs' main problems is that
he is perceived as a leader in and of the party.

To your point about lib commentators...if all I did was go based on what
they have to say about Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Ingraham et al
then I'd be farther left than Coulter is right and I'm not sure that is possible.

Funny how this thread started out about Christie.....:cheerful:Well, if that is REALLY what you think, and you conclude those ideas by honestly listening to him, then I can only say that I truly disrespect your cognition. He is the exact opposite of your paranoid description of him. I doubt you would ever read any of the books I recommended. Sadly.

[rock on sooner]

Well, if that is REALLY what you think, and you conclude those ideas by honestly listening to him, then I can only say that I truly disrespect your cognition. He is the exact opposite of your paranoid description of him. I doubt you would ever read any of the books I recommended. Sadly.

When I find the books, I'll read them...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

When I find the books, I'll read them...YEAH, and first you will have to look for them.

[diverdog]

When I find the books, I'll read them...

I read both of Limbaughs first two books and they are crap. His books are written for sheep and a fast buck. Don't waste you time or money.

If you want to read some good conservative books I would recommend:

Reagan A Life In Letters. (I actually bought this as an audio book)
Edmund Burke The First Conservative
John Adams
Conscience of a Conservative

I would like to read some of Bennetts books and maybe one by Sewell. O'Reilly's book on Lincoln is in my car and it is the next one I will read.

Any of the books by the loudmouths on the left or right are not worth your time. Now I will say I have a soft spot for G Gordon Liddy.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I read both of Limbaughs first two books and they are crap. His books are written for sheep and a fast buck. Don't waste you time or money.

If you want to read some good conservative books I would recommend:

Reagan A Life In Letters. (I actually bought this as an audio book)
Edmund Burke The First Conservative
John Adams
Conscience of a Conservative

I would like to read some of Bennetts books and maybe one by Sewell. O'Reilly's book on Lincoln is in my car and it is the next one I will read.

Any of the books by the loudmouths on the left or right are not worth your time. Now I will say I have a soft spot for G Gordon Liddy.If you are considering O'Reilly a conservative, you shouldn't. No surprise you didn't like Limbaugh's books. he has little regard for democrats or their socialism/fascism. He goes into adequate details as to why. Prolly hurt your feelers, but if you were to have an open mind, conservatism would make sense, as it is the only political philosophy that respects human nature and the desire of the individual to live life with minimal control by the state.

[diverdog]

If you are considering O'Reilly a conservative, you shouldn't. No surprise you didn't like Limbaugh's books. he has little regard for democrats or their socialism/fascism. He goes into adequate details as to why. Prolly hurt your feelers, but if you were to have an open mind, conservatism would make sense, as it is the only political philosophy that respects human nature and the desire of the individual to live life with minimal control by the state.

Limbaugh's books are poorly written and researched. For instance, he claims that if all the ice caps and Greenland would melt there would be no sea level rise. He compares it...if I remember correctly to ice in a glass of tea. Well there is a slight problem with that anology. The ice in Greenland and the South Pole are on land. So it would be like adding ice to a glass of tea and it would rise.

And maybe if you opened your mind you would see that conservatives (in practice) in the US are every bit as bad as democrats in expanding government and attacking civil liberties. I am pretty sure I have read some commentary on this board by Sic Em and Kanto about that very issue.

I consider O'Reilly a pragmatist. What I like about him is that he seems to have an absolute sense of fairness (although I may not agree with him) and undying desire to protect children. Anyone who defends children is A okay in my books.

Finally, if you are going to recommend books on conservatism don't lead with books by entertainers who make money throwing verbal bombs. Most of the are in it for the money and most of them do not write their own books. McCullough's book on John Adams is a damn good read and Goldwater's book the Conscience of a Conservative is considered a must read. Lead with those. I have no issue on your recommendation of Milton Friedman. He is a genuine force in conservatism and one of our greatest thinkers.

[rock on sooner]

YEAH, and first you will have to look for them.

Wow, can't take yes for an answer...

[KantoSooner]

Read Burke's Reflections on the Revolution or whatever. His take on the French rev. In a sense, the foundational work of modern conservatism. And one of the first to comment directly on the differences between the American and French revolutions. There's also Hobbes, though he's way far over on the statist side of life.

For a surprisingly modern viewpoint, try Locke or Smith. For some reason, life in Scotland in the 18th century must have resembled modern America.

Then the Holy Book for anyone committed to good government: J.S. Mill's 'On Liberty'. Right up there with 'Origin of Species' for the title of greatest intellectual achievement in the history of mankind.

[diverdog]

Read Burke's Reflections on the Revolution or whatever. His take on the French rev. In a sense, the foundational work of modern conservatism. And one of the first to comment directly on the differences between the American and French revolutions. There's also Hobbes, though he's way far over on the statist side of life.

For a surprisingly modern viewpoint, try Locke or Smith. For some reason, life in Scotland in the 18th century must have resembled modern America.

Then the Holy Book for anyone committed to good government: J.S. Mill's 'On Liberty'. Right up there with 'Origin of Species' for the title of greatest intellectual achievement in the history of mankind.

I completely forgot about Mills.

[KantoSooner]

It's not a terribly challenging read, about 200 pages or so, I think. Just really well distilled thinking on the topic of how to set up a government for the optimization of human liberty.

[diverdog]

It's not a terribly challenging read, about 200 pages or so, I think. Just really well distilled thinking on the topic of how to set up a government for the optimization of human liberty.

I think the biggest challange to liberty is explosive growth in population. More people less freedom. To much competition for resources.

[FaninAma]

I think the biggest challange to liberty is explosive growth in population. More people less freedom. To much competition for resources.
Western Europe and the US are in negative population growth discounting immigrants.

Growth in uneducated, ignorant societies is definitely a risk to Western countries.

[KantoSooner]

This is not rigidly on topic, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, as with any exploding population, Ma Nature will cull it back with a nice plague of some sort. Let's see, an outbreak of an aerosol transmitted hemmoragic fever,a 'super Ebola' in an area like India? We already have Llahsa fever (sp?) and it's getting close. Hell even a really good flu might do the trick.
And the majority of the dying will be done by the poor and the brown.

I just don't see us getting to the point in this country where competition for resources will become so severe as to drive abandoning our basic rights.

[okie52]

Krauthammer: Christie 'Far and Away' 2016 GOP Frontrunner
Friday, 08 Nov 2013 04:41 PM
By Bill Hoffmann

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is "by far, far and away" the Republican frontrunner in the 2016 presidential race, veteran Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer says.

"People say he can't win the nomination. I don't believe that," Krauthammer told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

"He is, by far, far and away, the frontrunner right now . . . If you had to put your money in Vegas, the shortest odds would be on Christie winning the nomination."

"Now, he's going to have trouble in Iowa. He'll have trouble in other places. But I don't think the Republicans want to commit hari kari . . . I don't necessarily think he's going to win, but they've lost twice."

Krauthammer, author of the new book "Things That Matter: Three Decades of Passions, Pastimes and Politics," is emphatic that Christie's not a liberal as some conservatives claim.

"Christie is not a liberal. He's pro-life, he's unequivocally pro-life, he's against gay marriage which is a pretty conservative position right now given how the country is changing many people. But this is not a man who came out of left field," Krauthammer said.

"There are areas where conservatives will disagree with him but if you find a guy who wins by 22 points in a deeply, deeply Democratic state, you've got to take a look at him because whatever you think of moderation amongst some conservatives, it sure beats having a Democrat, a [Barack] Obama, or a [Bill] Clinton in the White House."

On the subject of the ongoing Affordable Care Act debacle and Obama's apology to Americans whose insurance policies have been canceled, Krauthammer said the president's rollout has been a "complete disaster."

"It turned out to be [Obama is] not the Superman he said he was . . . I mean the thing is, apart from the fact that he's the most far-left president in at least 70 years, is the fact that he leads from behind on foreign policy and he doesn't lead at all on domestic," he said.

"For him to say, I got burned on that computer website? I mean what is he a bystander? Has he stumbled across something called Obamacare, picked it up and said, what's this?

"He apologized for the dislocation people are feeling but he needs to apologize for misleading the country into believing that the vast majority of Americans who are happy with their healthcare would be left alone and it turns out that this is exactly what people like me have been arguing for five years."


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/NewsmaxTv/krauthammer-christie-gop-frontrunner/2013/11/08/id/535702#ixzz2kRdYdFea
.

[okie52]

Western Europe and the US are in negative population growth discounting immigrants.

Growth in uneducated, ignorant societies is definitely a risk to Western countries.

That it is.... which is why a pragmatic, coherent and enforced immigration policy is long overdue.

[C&CDean]

If fat people voted for him just cause he's fat - just like all the brothers who voted for obama cause he black - he'd win in a landslide. There's a lot of fat peoples in this country.

[okie52]

I'd guess Christie won't be getting Bloomberg's vote....

[okie52]

This is not rigidly on topic, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, as with any exploding population, Ma Nature will cull it back with a nice plague of some sort. Let's see, an outbreak of an aerosol transmitted hemmoragic fever,a 'super Ebola' in an area like India? We already have Llahsa fever (sp?) and it's getting close. Hell even a really good flu might do the trick.
And the majority of the dying will be done by the poor and the brown.

I just don't see us getting to the point in this country where competition for resources will become so severe as to drive abandoning our basic rights.

No magic plague has happened in the last century.

The world population has doubled since 1960. The US, China and India's populations have all doubled in about that time frame. The poor and the brown people are often synonymous...but they also generally have much higher birthrates to more than offset shorter life expectancies.

Think China and India aren't stressed on their resources?

[KantoSooner]

No magic plague has happened in the last century.

The world population has doubled since 1960. The US, China and India's populations have all doubled in about that time frame. The poor and the brown people are often synonymous...but they also generally have much higher birthrates to more than offset shorter life expectancies.

Think China and India aren't stressed on their resources?

not stressed to the point of war, at any rate....since they haven't had one. What's your estimate of sustainable world carrying capacity for humans?

[okie52]

I've seen different estimates but I'd go with a billion.

[KantoSooner]

Mebbe 1.5, but yeah, something in that range. Enough to enjoy the fruits of society, few enough to relieve stress on the environment.

[okie52]

Rand Paul: Christie 'Not Fiscally Conservative' on Obamacare

Wednesday, 20 Nov 2013 11:31 AM
By Lisa Barron

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., is back on the offensive against Chris Christie, criticizing the GOP New Jersey governor's expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare.

Paul, a potential 2016 presidential candidate, was responding to a question Tuesday by CNN's Erin Burnett, about whether he considered Christie and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, both possible 2016 contenders, to be conservatives.

"I don't think any one person gets to decide what is or what isn't conservative," Paul said, adding, "On the case of the New Jersey governor, I think embracing Obamacare, expanding Medicaid in his state is very expensive and not fiscally conservative."

Christie became the eighth Republican governor to accept the expansion of Medicaid in February, explaining that he was aiming to "put people first."

Paul continued, "Many Republican governors I would say are conservative did resist expanding and accepting Obamacare in their states. That fact, I would say, would lead towards you making the conclusion that it is not a very conservative proposal."

This is not the senator's first attack on the New Jersey governor. The two men have been feuding in public for months. In July, Paul accused Christie of using "the cloak of 9/11 victims" to criticize him and other lawmakers for their non-interventionist views on foreign policy.

Christie earlier had challenged Paul and other legislators to explain their views on non-intervention and government surveillance programs to families of the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"It's really, I think, kind of sad and cheap that he would use the cloak of 9/11 victims and say, 'Oh, I'm the only one who cares about these victims.' Hogwash," Paul told Fox News' Sean Hannity.

Two weeks later, Paul and his father, former Texas Rep. Ron Paul, went after Christie for his speech at the Republican National Committee meeting in Boston, in which he said the party should be about winning elections rather than debating ideology.

"He offers nothing . . . There's more to it than just power," the elder Paul, a three-time presidential candidate, told CNN.

"To say and do anything you want just to be in government? You have to believe in something and understand economics, or you just keep doing the same things and deficits keep running up," Ron Paul said.

Shortly afterward, the Kentucky senator attacked Christie for suggesting the Republican Party had no room for libertarian-leaning politicians.

Urgent: Do You Approve Or Disapprove of President Obama's Job Performance? Vote Now in Urgent Poll

"Look, the party in the Northeast is shrinking almost down to nothing, they need to be looking to people with new and different ideas who will attract young, independent, even Democrats to our party," Paul said on "Fox News Sunday."

"Saying there's no room for us was a big mistake on [Christie's] part," he added.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/paul-christie-obamacare-conservative/2013/11/20/id/537690#ixzz2lD39s3N3 .

Unfortunately I'm afraid that the Paul's have got Christie figured out.

[stoopified]

Welp, Okie, all I can say is he chose the lesser of two evils....TWICE... :) FIFY,I figure this had to be a joke or you have been asleep the last 5 years.

[okie52]

Christie to Campaign for GOP Governors Next Year
Thursday, 21 Nov 2013 05:19 PM

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is taking on a new high-profile role that could enhance a future White House campaign. But first things first.

Christie was elected chairman of the Republican Governors Association on Thursday, a perch that will allow him to travel the country in support of GOP governors and candidates and raise money for the party throughout 2014. He dismissed any talk of a 2016 presidential campaign, saying the task of competing in 36 governors' races was the top priority.

"My job is to go out there and elect and re-elect Republican governors, and that is going to be my sole focus over the next 11 months," Christie told reporters Thursday. He said Republican leaders "start thinking about 2016 at our own peril, or at worse at the peril of our own colleagues."

Leading the organization has long been a stepping stone to a national campaign. Former Govs. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts and Rick Perry of Texas led the RGA before running for president and the group was once run by Ronald Reagan while he served as governor of California.

Christie gained widespread attention for his response to Hurricane Sandy, which battered the Jersey shore in the days leading up to the 2012 presidential election, and won re-election in a landslide earlier this month, bolstering his image as a straight-talking Republican in a Democratic-leaning state.

During a four-day annual conference at an Arizona resort, Republicans heaped praise on Christie's record and said he would help the party defend 22 seats currently held by Republicans next year.

"People like him and he's got one other thing going for him, it's called celebrity, and in case you haven't noticed, that's a big darn deal in America today," said Ohio Gov. John Kasich on Wednesday. "So he will draw crowds and he will be effective at raising money, I have no doubt."

Christie's new role will help him build ties to some of the party's most generous financial donors and connect with party leaders around the country. Through the first six months of 2013, the RGA raised $23.5 million and is entering the 2014 political year with more than $45 million in the bank. He was joined by several longtime advisers from New Jersey at the conference and held multiple finance meetings to map out a strategy for next year.

Christie has already booked political events in Vermont, Idaho and Oklahoma next month and many of the states he'll be defending could figure prominently in the party's future presidential prospects. Some of the most vulnerable Republican incumbents include Govs. Tom Corbett of Pennsylvania, Rick Scott of Florida, Rick Snyder of Michigan and Ohio's Kasich — four competitive states that were carried by President Barack Obama last year.

But White House talk can wait.

"2016 is a long way away and I'm two weeks out of a campaign," Christie said. "I'm not looking to start speculating about other campaigns already. I've got 2014 to deal with — that's what we're going to deal with."


© Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Christie-campaigns-gpvs/2013/11/21/id/537997#ixzz2lOBZfVz6

I'm really at a loss why Fallin thinks Christie will help her in OK....he wouldn't carry OK in a pub primary...hell, he might not even finish in the top 3 in OK.

[rock on sooner]

I'm really at a loss why Fallin thinks Christie will help her in OK....he wouldn't carry OK in a pub primary...hell, he might not even finish in the top 3 in OK.

I heard a rumor that there are 8 moderate Pubs and 11 Dems that Fallin
thinks Christie can help her win over, so he's going "all in" for her.:friendly_wink:

[okie52]

I heard a rumor that there are 8 moderate Pubs and 11 Dems that Fallin
thinks Christie can help her win over, so he's going "all in" for her.:friendly_wink:

Heh heh..

Got to capture those swing voters in OK...

[rock on sooner]

Heh heh..

Got to capture those swing voters in OK...

Yup, all 19 of em...wonder how she found em in 77 counties?

[diverdog]

On the Simpsons the guy who plays the Arnold Schwartzeneger character said "Christy thinks GOP stands for Gravy On Pancakes"! Brahahaha

http://redalertpolitics.com/2013/11/25/the-simpsons-cracks-that-chris-christie-thinks-gop-stands-for-gravy-on-pancakes/

[okie52]

heh heh....

[okie52]

Christie Leads Potential GOP Presidential Contenders: Poll
Friday, 29 Nov 2013 08:57 AM


The CNN/ORC International survey, released Friday, indicates Christie, who won re-election in a landslide victory, leads the pack of potential contenders for the GOP nomination.

The poll also found that Democrats would favor Vice President Joe Biden, if Hillary Clinton decides against making another bid for the White House,.

Twenty-four percent of Republicans and independents questioned in the survey polled said they'd support Christie, up seven percentage points from a CNN poll in September.

At that time, Christie and Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, the House Budget chairman and the 2012 Republican vice presidential nominee, were virtually tied, with Christie at 17 percent and Ryan at 16 percent.

But Ryan has dropped to 11 percent, behind Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, at 13 percent. Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas garnered 10 percent in the survey, followed by Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida at 9 percent, Texas Gov. Rick Perry at 7 percent, and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, each at 6 percent.

"Among Republicans making more than $50,000, Christie wins 32 percent support, 20 points higher than Cruz, Ryan, or Marco Rubio, all of whom get 12 percent among higher-income GOPers, and 23 points higher than Paul," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "But among Republicans who make less than $50,000 a year, Christie's support drops 19 points, only good enough for second place behind Paul."

The CNN poll indicates that Clinton would be the overwhelming frontrunner in the race for the Democratic nomination, with 63 percent of Democrats and independents who lean toward the Democratic Party saying she would be their choice. Biden was a distant second at 12 percent, followed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts (7 percent), New York State Gov. Andrew Cuomo (5 percent), and two-term Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley (2 percent).

But if Clinton forgoes another run for the White House, the poll found 43 percent of Democrats would support the vice president.

The poll was conducted November 18-20 for CNN by ORC International, with 843 adult Americans, including 418 Republicans and independents who lean toward the GOP, and 374 Democrats and independents who lean Democratic, questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points, with a sampling error of plus or minus 5 percentage points for questions just of Democrats or Republicans.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/chris-christie-gop-presidential/2013/11/29/id/539171#ixzz2m4nPoNyU
.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

not sure the polls mean much at this point. I think 4 years ago, rick perry was the poll leader

[Skysooner]

When it comes down to it, Oklahoma is irrelevant in national elections anymore. If the Ds trot out a truly liberal candidate or the Rs bring out a tea party candidate, they have zero chance of winning the swing states like Colorado, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. It is these swing states that decide elections. Christie has a chance in a national election, because he plays up to the moderates which make up the all important middle of the political spectrum.

[okie52]

When it comes down to it, Oklahoma is irrelevant in national elections anymore. If the Ds trot out a truly liberal candidate or the Rs bring out a tea party candidate, they have zero chance of winning the swing states like Colorado, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. It is these swing states that decide elections. Christie has a chance in a national election, because he plays up to the moderates which make up the all important middle of the political spectrum.


if the conservatives don't show up to vote then it won't matter what moderates do in the swing states and Christie is far enough out there where that might happen as far as a GOP candidate is concerned.

[Skysooner]

if the conservatives don't show up to vote then it won't matter what moderates do in the swing states and Christie is far enough out there where that might happen as far as a GOP candidate is concerned.

Which is the rub isn't it. I left the R party 7 years ago whem the social conservative wing took over. Their big issues don't resonate with me. Get us on a track to fiscal responsibility without infringing on social rights anf maybe I will vote for a national R candidate again.

[okie52]

Heh, I thought you voted for an r the last time.

Social issues will rarely dictate my vote....abortion, gay rights, pot, etc...unless you consider amnesty a social issue.

On the other hand detrimental energy policies will play a large part in my vote and I rarely have seen the dems advance an energy policy that wasn't detrimental to the nation and/or the economy.

[Skysooner]

Heh, I thought you voted for an r the last time.

Social issues will rarely dictate my vote....abortion, gay rights, pot, etc...unless you consider amnesty a social issue.

On the other hand detrimental energy policies will play a large part in my vote and I rarely have seen the dems advance an energy policy that wasn't detrimental to the nation and/or the economy.

Only because I thought Romney wouldn't govern like he ran and also because B was kowtowing too much to the environmental lobby.

[okie52]

Only because I thought Romney wouldn't govern like he ran and also because B was kowtowing too much to the environmental lobby.

B is still kowtowing to the enviros through the EPA....one can only hope that his current problems will delay his agenda.

[Skysooner]

B is still kowtowing to the enviros through the EPA....one can only hope that his current problems will delay his agenda.

The EPA has actually done some really good things (among bad things too) for practices in our industry. I don't know if you remember years ago when dirt berms were built around tank batteries and then the lease operator would walk over the same place from his truck to gauge the tanks thus causing a low spot where spillage would occur. We now use dirt that has been treated with a seal below all tank batteries and generally steel berms that contain spills. In the Colorado floods, these were the only things that saved much more oil runoff.

In Pavilion, Wyoming they backed off bad science that showed "fracking" damage which was bs since the water in that area is mixed with shallow natural gas deposits.

Really the biggest issue right now is Keystone since without that pipeline heavy oil development in Canada will stop which will knock 2-3 BCF/day off of base demand in North America and keep natural gas prices too low. The environmentalists don't want the hydrocarbon economy to continue because they want renewables (I'm all for cost-efficient non-subsidized renewables if they can be developed). However without the cheap energy we have now, this country will go into the crapper much more quickly due to labor imbalances with the third world. We have the cheapest energy costs in the world (barring Saudi Arabia). This is what is could make the US the power house manufacturer again. NAFTA is not looking so good now, but the globalization of the world economy was inevitable.

[okie52]

The EPA has actually done some really good things (among bad things too) for practices in our industry. I don't know if you remember years ago when dirt berms were built around tank batteries and then the lease operator would walk over the same place from his truck to gauge the tanks thus causing a low spot where spillage would occur. We now use dirt that has been treated with a seal below all tank batteries and generally steel berms that contain spills. In the Colorado floods, these were the only things that saved much more oil runoff.

In Pavilion, Wyoming they backed off bad science that showed "fracking" damage which was bs since the water in that area is mixed with shallow natural gas deposits.

Really the biggest issue right now is Keystone since without that pipeline heavy oil development in Canada will stop which will knock 2-3 BCF/day off of base demand in North America and keep natural gas prices too low. The environmentalists don't want the hydrocarbon economy to continue because they want renewables (I'm all for cost-efficient non-subsidized renewables if they can be developed). However without the cheap energy we have now, this country will go into the crapper much more quickly due to labor imbalances with the third world. We have the cheapest energy costs in the world (barring Saudi Arabia). This is what is could make the US the power house manufacturer again. NAFTA is not looking so good now, but the globalization of the world economy was inevitable.

I wasn't aware of the burm changes. So the industry had this technology and the EPA then chose to make it a requirement for all well sites?

I think the EPA has backed off a few "fracking" accusations in the last year but as you said there was no evidence to support their claims. My real gripes with the EPA have been their pursuing Companies like Continental over a few dead non protected birds found in open pits while ignoring thousands of birds killed by wind turbines. Luckily the judge threw out their case against Continental but it shows a pattern of attacking oil companies based purely on politics with almost no science involved. Now Obama has directed the EPA to go after utility companies that don't meet his own "target" for CO2 emissions. Probably good for NG but really bad for coal and existing coal energy plants.

I'm not following your Keystone example. How does the pipeline which will move heavy oil impact demand on NG? Is the 2-3 BCF per day what is anticipated to be needed to sustain drilling for heavy oil and the construction/operations of the pipeline?

I agree with the economic advantage that our businesses/manufacturers have enjoyed by the low cost of energy in the US (primarily NG) but Obama and the dems tried to eliminate that advantage when they passed cap and trade in the house in 2009 (at the height of the recession no less). That would have added a 22% tax to NG, 33% tax to oil and a 44% tax to coal. If it wasn't for some dem senators from coal producing states along with every pub those taxes would now be law. What's even more ironic is that because of many industries and utility companies switching to NG ON THEIR OWN and a decrease in demand, CO2 emissions dropped by 20% in the US in the first 3 years Obama was in office...far better than what Obama hoped to achieve through cap and trade and without the devastating impact on the economy that cap and trade would created.

I have no problem with the US trying to reduce man's footprint on the planet but without a verifiable and fair global agreement the reductions in the US will be almost meaningless and will certainly be harmful to our economy. China and India aren't going to give up their coal unless the US and Europe pay them a blackmail fee to reduce their CO2 emissions. That is pretty bold talk coming from 2 countries with over 1/3 of the world's population as overpopulation is not even being discussed as a contributing factor to CO2 emissions.

[KantoSooner]

for the same reasons we are not going to give up carbon-based power, neither will India or China. And for both, that means a lot of coal. Not until the people there demand some changes.
But that day might not be as far away as might be assumed. Shanghai's air pollution is 10X the safe limit and one of the more popular websites in the country is the US embassy's daily air pollution index site (originally put up for the use of embassy staff, but fairly cleverly left open to web surfers).

[okie52]

Ahh, who could forget the olympics in China and the smog....

China and India were pursuing nukes at a rapid pace prior to Japan's sunami which caused a pause in their development ...but I believe both are again pursuing rapid development of nukes.

[KantoSooner]

They have no choice. China is far ahead of India in industrialization but has to maintain a 7% or so growth rate to keep away the pitchforks and torches (my personal estimate) and India has only just begun to see a middle class start to grow. Both need solid injections of electrical power to keep what's good going on.
And, to be fair, why shouldn't they get to develop? We certainly filled the skies of the planet with our pollutants while we were undergoing industrialization.
So, yeah, mo' nukes. It's pretty inevitable. Hopefully we can sell them on the newer GE designs that are far safer than TMI, Fukushima, etc.

[okie52]

We have no right to dictate to China, India, or any other country how they develop their industry and energy other than, of course, if it is going to threaten our national security or that of other countries. The AGW imperative is not selling in China or India or any other developing country....unless, possibly, if the developed countries agree to pay China and India, et al, to use cleaner fuel sources. Any CO2 reduction policy has to have China and India on board or it isn't worth the paper it is written on.

The developed countries have had a century head start on China and India in terms of industrialization but whose fault is that? Now that they are awakening to the advantages of industrialized economies they are looking for compensation to steer their energy usage to cleaner sources but want to disregard their overpopulation footprint on AGW. China passed the US years ago in CO2 emissions and it won't be long before India does too.

I'm not saying that China and India should be punished but I certainly don't think they should be compensated either. China is about the size of the US in area with over 4 times the population and India has less than 1/3 the area of the US and almost 4 times the population. These numbers shouldn't be ignored when calculating an acceptable "carbon footprint" for nations.

[okie52]

Latino Voters: Christie Flip-flopping on Tuition for Illegal Immigrants

Gov. Chris Christie answers questions from students and reporters at Jose Marti Freshman Academy in Union City on Nov. 6.
Thursday, 28 Nov 2013 08:42 AM
By Courtney Coren

Republican Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey is flip-flopping on in-state tuition for illegal immigrants, after saying it was something he supported during his gubernatorial campaign in an effort to garner the Latino vote, immigrant advocates claim.

The New Jersey Republican said during a debate with his Democratic opponent Barbara Buono that he would support a reduced tuition for those in the United States illegally. But on Monday he said that, while he still supported lower in-state tuition for illegal immigrants, he could not sign the bill just passed by the State Senate that would make it legal, The New York Times reported.

"When he was running for election he was running to be able to say, 'Look, I am the only Republican who can win the Latino vote," said Giancarlo Tello of the New Jersey Tuition Equity for Dreamers Coalition. "Now that he already got the election, he's already flip-flopping."

Christie said that the reason he cannot sign the bill is because it allows out-of-state residents to pay in-state costs for New Jersey boarding schools and also qualifies them for in-state college tuition, turning the Garden State into a "magnet state" for illegal immigrants.

"They're overreaching and they're making it unsignable," he said.

While immigrant advocates were puzzled by his comments, the New Jersey governor's spokesman said Wednesday that Christie still "supports New Jerseyans receiving in-state tuition, no matter how they came to this country."

Christie won re-election in a landslide Nov. 5 and is seen as one of the top potential presidential candidates for 2016.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/chris-christie-illegal-students-tuition/2013/11/28/id/539116#ixzz2mL7C3Gwp
.

Not a Christie fan nor do I support any assistance for illegals but at least this made some sense on Christie's part in keeping the instate tuition just for the "new jersey illegals". I honestly believe some crazies would support instate tuition for Mexicans living in juarez.

[Skysooner]

I wasn't aware of the burm changes. So the industry had this technology and the EPA then chose to make it a requirement for all well sites?

I think the EPA has backed off a few "fracking" accusations in the last year but as you said there was no evidence to support their claims. My real gripes with the EPA have been their pursuing Companies like Continental over a few dead non protected birds found in open pits while ignoring thousands of birds killed by wind turbines. Luckily the judge threw out their case against Continental but it shows a pattern of attacking oil companies based purely on politics with almost no science involved. Now Obama has directed the EPA to go after utility companies that don't meet his own "target" for CO2 emissions. Probably good for NG but really bad for coal and existing coal energy plants.

I'm not following your Keystone example. How does the pipeline which will move heavy oil impact demand on NG? Is the 2-3 BCF per day what is anticipated to be needed to sustain drilling for heavy oil and the construction/operations of the pipeline?

I agree with the economic advantage that our businesses/manufacturers have enjoyed by the low cost of energy in the US (primarily NG) but Obama and the dems tried to eliminate that advantage when they passed cap and trade in the house in 2009 (at the height of the recession no less). That would have added a 22% tax to NG, 33% tax to oil and a 44% tax to coal. If it wasn't for some dem senators from coal producing states along with every pub those taxes would now be law. What's even more ironic is that because of many industries and utility companies switching to NG ON THEIR OWN and a decrease in demand, CO2 emissions dropped by 20% in the US in the first 3 years Obama was in office...far better than what Obama hoped to achieve through cap and trade and without the devastating impact on the economy that cap and trade would created.

I have no problem with the US trying to reduce man's footprint on the planet but without a verifiable and fair global agreement the reductions in the US will be almost meaningless and will certainly be harmful to our economy. China and India aren't going to give up their coal unless the US and Europe pay them a blackmail fee to reduce their CO2 emissions. That is pretty bold talk coming from 2 countries with over 1/3 of the world's population as overpopulation is not even being discussed as a contributing factor to CO2 emissions.

Right now the pipelines for moving heavy crude out of Canada are about full. These projects don't decline like typical oil deposits. Instead a process called Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage (SAGD) is used. There will be several hundred horizontal wells drilled into an oil sand with one stacked above another. The upper well has super heated steam sent down the wellbore which heats the oil, lowers the viscosity and allows it to slow into the lower wellbore. The loss in gas demand is because natural gas is the source for heating the water that is sent down the wells. Without more infrastructure to move the oil, the projected demand increases will not happen. This is bad for Oklahoma and all energy producing states that have an abundance of natural gas.

[okie52]

Right now the pipelines for moving heavy crude out of Canada are about full. These projects don't decline like typical oil deposits. Instead a process called Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage (SAGD) is used. There will be several hundred horizontal wells drilled into an oil sand with one stacked above another. The upper well has super heated steam sent down the wellbore which heats the oil, lowers the viscosity and allows it to slow into the lower wellbore. The loss in gas demand is because natural gas is the source for heating the water that is sent down the wells. Without more infrastructure to move the oil, the projected demand increases will not happen. This is bad for Oklahoma and all energy producing states that have an abundance of natural gas.

Would the Canadians not supply the NG for the drilling in Canada? They are actually still exporting ng to the US (believe it or not) and have plenty of their own ng .

[KantoSooner]

NG is a fungible commodity. If the Canucks use less, there's less aggregate demand, thus lower global prices.

[okie52]

NG is a fungible commodity. If the Canucks use less, there's less aggregate demand, thus lower global prices.

Ng is a regional commodity in the US and North America, not global. That is why we have a glut now and NG is going for 3.90 an MCF. In China and Japan it is going for or was going for $16 an MCF.

http://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/mkt-gas/overview/ngas-ovr-lng-wld-pr-est.pdf

[KantoSooner]

touche, but it's still regional enough that Canadian consumption is going to effect the price in Okieland, no?

[okie52]

touche, but it's still regional enough that Canadian consumption is going to effect the price in Okieland, no?

It could, depending on how the pipeline networks to Canada. Obviously from Sky's viewpoint NG consumption would have increased by the additional drilling so that could have increased demand and raised prices, I'm just not sure why canadian gas wouldn't be used instead of US ng. I assume proximity of supply would be the key factor.

Sky-aren't they currently shipping that oil by rail now? While the pipeline would be more efficient, economical and aid in the refinement, why would drilling be curtailed by the absence of the pipeline? We went many years in the Bakken without pipelines (and still are to some degree).

[KantoSooner]

On international NG, I know that, for three decades or so, a big percentage of Central Japan's electricity was produced from NG brought in from Phillip's Kenai, AK LNG plant. (They had something like nine LNG tankers that spent decades doing nothing but conducting a giant North Pacific carousel between loading docks in Kenai and unloading docks in Yokohama. And I know that now a lot of that demand is satisfied by Phillip's LNG project outside of Darwin (?) in Northern Australia (East Timor gas)

It seems odd to me that there'd be that large a discrepancy in international pricing. What's your take? Is this a momentary thing? Has it persisted historically? Don't go to great lengths if you don't know off the top of your head, I don't want to trouble you. But, I"m curious if you happen to know off hand.

[C&CDean]

other than the general religious right BS?

i'm sure she could have prayed our economy better by now if she was in charge

Uh, how about we just agree that she couldn't have ****ed it up any more than your boy. Deal?

[Skysooner]

It could, depending on how the pipeline networks to Canada. Obviously from Sky's viewpoint NG consumption would have increased by the additional drilling so that could have increased demand and raised prices, I'm just not sure why canadian gas wouldn't be used instead of US ng. I assume proximity of supply would be the key factor.

Sky-aren't they currently shipping that oil by rail now? While the pipeline would be more efficient, economical and aid in the refinement, why would drilling be curtailed by the absence of the pipeline? We went many years in the Bakken without pipelines (and still are to some degree).

Recent rail accidents in the US and Canada involving petroleum are quickly bringing that into a more regulated realm. Yes, they would use their own NG, but we are still able to supply the decline of NG production each year at a marginal supply cost of $2.00/mmbtu. There is no way the price is going up anytime soon until the LNG terminals get built in which case it becomes a global market. On the plus side for us, the Australian gas is a very long way from their LNG shipping points, and their companies are less than stellar in development. That will give us some upside pressure after 2016.

[Skysooner]

On international NG, I know that, for three decades or so, a big percentage of Central Japan's electricity was produced from NG brought in from Phillip's Kenai, AK LNG plant. (They had something like nine LNG tankers that spent decades doing nothing but conducting a giant North Pacific carousel between loading docks in Kenai and unloading docks in Yokohama. And I know that now a lot of that demand is satisfied by Phillip's LNG project outside of Darwin (?) in Northern Australia (East Timor gas)

It seems odd to me that there'd be that large a discrepancy in international pricing. What's your take? Is this a momentary thing? Has it persisted historically? Don't go to great lengths if you don't know off the top of your head, I don't want to trouble you. But, I"m curious if you happen to know off hand.



It is because we have little to no export capacity here at this moment. As soon as that comes online, it will help. We could actually supply twice the loss in demand under $4.00/mmbtu capacity right now if there were more rigs drilling gas.

[okie52]

On international NG, I know that, for three decades or so, a big percentage of Central Japan's electricity was produced from NG brought in from Phillip's Kenai, AK LNG plant. (They had something like nine LNG tankers that spent decades doing nothing but conducting a giant North Pacific carousel between loading docks in Kenai and unloading docks in Yokohama. And I know that now a lot of that demand is satisfied by Phillip's LNG project outside of Darwin (?) in Northern Australia (East Timor gas)

It seems odd to me that there'd be that large a discrepancy in international pricing. What's your take? Is this a momentary thing? Has it persisted historically? Don't go to great lengths if you don't know off the top of your head, I don't want to trouble you. But, I"m curious if you happen to know off hand.

Mainly transportation costs and to a lesser degree costs to convert ng to lng is my take on the pricing for NG, and, of course demand factors into that too and I don't know really how much LNG is available on the international market. I know some US companies like CHK are trying to export LNG but I don't know how far that has proceeded to date.

As far as domestic pricing goes the US and some of Canada have such extensive pipelines that delivery costs are very cheap and, again, we are swamped by an overkill of production with really no outside markets to increase demand (other than through ramping up LNG markets and delivery systems, which evidently isn't easy to do).

[okie52]

Recent rail accidents in the US and Canada involving petroleum are quickly bringing that into a more regulated realm. Yes, they would use their own NG, but we are still able to supply the decline of NG production each year at a marginal supply cost of $2.00/mmbtu. There is no way the price is going up anytime soon until the LNG terminals get built in which case it becomes a global market. On the plus side for us, the Australian gas is a very long way from their LNG shipping points, and their companies are less than stellar in development. That will give us some upside pressure after 2016.

I was posting when you posted this.

I was thinking of the Canadian rail accident....should be another reason for the pipeline. But I also thought that the pipeline would be used by Bakken producers to ship their oil.

[Skysooner]

I was posting when you posted this.

I was thinking of the Canadian rail accident....should be another reason for the pipeline. But I also thought that the pipeline would be used by Bakken producers to ship their oil.

It already is, but there was some accident back east in the US (can't remember the details but recently) that involved Bakken crude transportation by rail. We aren't counting on that. Plus we are flaring close to 400 MMCFD in the Bakken right now. Look at satellite photos of western N. Dakota. It is brighter than Chicago.

[okie52]

It already is, but there was some accident back east in the US (can't remember the details but recently) that involved Bakken crude transportation by rail. We aren't counting on that. Plus we are flaring close to 400 MMCFD in the Bakken right now. Look at satellite photos of western N. Dakota. It is brighter than Chicago.

I've seen some of those photos....flaring such a waste.

[Skysooner]

I've seen some of those photos....flaring such a waste.

Give it another 6 months and should be solved completely. The core area of the Bakken has been very well defined now which allows the pipeline companies to plan better. Just don't bet on Continental. Harold Hamm is full of hot air on the lower benches of the Three Forks.

[okie52]

Give it another 6 months and should be solved completely. The core area of the Bakken has been very well defined now which allows the pipeline companies to plan better. Just don't bet on Continental. Harold Hamm is full of hot air on the lower benches of the Three Forks.

don't know about Harold and three forks...haven't followed it that closely. I hope he doesn't let his salemanship get in the way of geology.