interesting read...death of the USA

[Soonerjeepman]

just interesting facts.

My head just tells me there is no way we will collapse, but who knows.

In 1887
Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at
the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about
the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years
prior: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it
simply cannot exist as a permanent form of
government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can
vote themselves generous gifts from the public
treasury. From that moment on, the majority always
votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every
democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal
policy, (which is) always followed by
a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years. During those
200 years, these nations always progressed through
the following sequence: From bondage to
spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great
courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty
to abundance; From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy; From apathy to
dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

"The Obituary follows:
Born 1776,
Died 2016
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University
School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, points out
some interesting facts concerning the last
Presidential election:

Number of States won by:
Obama: 19 Romney: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Obama: 580,000 Romney: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Obama: 127 million Romney: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won
by: Obama: 13.2 Romney: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory
Romney won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens
of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those
citizens living in low-income tenements and living
off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson
believes the United States is now somewhere between
the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor
Tyler's definition of democracy, with
some forty percent of the nation's population already having
reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegals - and they vote - then we can say
goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

[diverdog]

just interesting facts.

My head just tells me there is no way we will collapse, but who knows.

In 1887
Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at
the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about
the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years
prior: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it
simply cannot exist as a permanent form of
government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can
vote themselves generous gifts from the public
treasury. From that moment on, the majority always
votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every
democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal
policy, (which is) always followed by
a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years. During those
200 years, these nations always progressed through
the following sequence: From bondage to
spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great
courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty
to abundance; From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy; From apathy to
dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

"The Obituary follows:
Born 1776,
Died 2016
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University
School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, points out
some interesting facts concerning the last
Presidential election:

Number of States won by:
Obama: 19 Romney: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Obama: 580,000 Romney: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Obama: 127 million Romney: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won
by: Obama: 13.2 Romney: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory
Romney won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens
of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those
citizens living in low-income tenements and living
off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson
believes the United States is now somewhere between
the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor
Tyler's definition of democracy, with
some forty percent of the nation's population already having
reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegals - and they vote - then we can say
goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

I hope you know this a chain letter that goes back to when Gore ran for POTUS. Joseph Olsen did not write the article nor did he do the research..... Which is bogus.

[SoonerProphet]

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years."

wut?

[Turd_Ferguson]

I hope you know this a chain letter that goes back to when Gore ran for POTUS. Joseph Olsen did not write the article nor did he do the research..... Which is bogus.So, what's your point?

[Turd_Ferguson]

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years. During those
200 years, these nations always progressed through
the following sequence: From bondage to
spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great
courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty
to abundance; From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy; From apathy to
dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

I guess only peeps other than "progressives" can understand it when it's put in it's full context...

[SoonerProphet]

I guess only peeps other than "progressives" can understand it when it's put in it's full context...

Uh, yeah...cause the context makes the poor historical argument an even bigger steaming pile. Not sure how the "author", or whatever/whoever wrote it, but for starters how do they define "greatest civilizations".

[diverdog]

So, what's your point?

It is all made up.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I'm a homeowner with a 1/5 acre lot. I guess a farmer who owns 160 acres should have 800 votes to my one vote?

The amount of land Romney won doesn't mean diddlely ****. Land doesn't vote.

[lexsooner]

So did Tyler have a secretary named Olson, and Olson a secretary named Tyler? Two hundred years, two thousand years, what's the diff? Lol. Yes, this is an internet chain email hoax which has been passed along with different politicians' names since 2000. Of course one could argue the fact that there are Americans who buy off on this stuff is a good indicator of the dying of our civilization. Oh, the irony.

[cleller]

It must be a reaction to counter all the images of those mean, hateful, criminal types running around in Romney shirts.

Whenever I saw a bunch of folks with Romney shirts and stuff the hair on the back of my neck would stand up.

[FaninAma]

Are the statistics outlined in the OP not factual? Perhaps the reason the letter has been around since Gore is because it applies to every Democratic Presidential candidate who has ran for that office since 1980.

The Democrats appeal to primarily urban dwelling retards who live on the coasts in small geographic areas and who depend on the rest of the country to supply them with food, energy and other staples. Democrats, by and large, fall into 1 of 2 groups:

1.Elitists who think they are smarter than everybody else and who want to tell us what we need to do.
2.Dependent people who need elitists to tell them what to do and need somebody to take care of them.

[diverdog]

Are the statistics outlined in the OP not factual? Perhaps the reason the letter has been around since Gore is because it applies to every Democratic Presidential candidate who has ran for that office since 1980.

The Democrats appeal to primarily urban dwelling retards who live on the coasts in small geographic areas and who depend on the rest of the country to supply them with food, energy and other staples. Democrats, by and large, fall into 1 of 2 groups:

1.Elitists who think they are smarter than everybody else and who want to tell us what we need to do.
2.Dependent people who need elitists to tell them what to do and to take care of them.

Good lord talk about elitist.

The stats are not even close. Obama won 26 states plus DC. And California's GDP would rank it one of the largest industrial nations in the world.

[Soonerjeepman]

okay...my bad...but I do agree with much of the idea.

From my teaching experience in the urban area...the continual and increasing "hand out" vs "hand up" is alive and well.

[diverdog]

okay...my bad...but I do agree with much of the idea.

From my teaching experience in the urban area...the continual and increasing "hand out" vs "hand up" is alive and well.

Jeep there are tons of people in rural areas who get handouts. 60 Minutes did a story on a town in Ky where most people get SSI.

I will also tell you that the work culture in the east is brutal. My wife worked for JP Morgan in NYC and 100 hour work weeks were not uncommon. But she was getting 90k in bonuses in the 80's until she quit to be a teacher. Delaware has a above avg unemployment rate and we pay among the highest in per capita federal income taxes at an average above $18000 per year. So the entire notion that people on the coast are dependent on the government is bogus.

[FaninAma]

Jeep there are tons of people in rural areas who get handouts. 60 Minutes did a story on a town in Ky where most people get SSI.

I will also tell you that the work culture in the east is brutal. My wife worked for JP Morgan in NYC and 100 hour work weeks were not uncommon. But she was getting 90k in bonuses in the 80's until she quit to be a teacher. Delaware has a above avg unemployment rate and we pay among the highest in per capita federal income taxes at an average above $18000 per year. So the entire notion that people on the coast are dependent on the government is bogus.

Nobody said that the entire population of the coastal areas are but a large percentage of those who live in urban centers on the coast and elsewhere are and that is where a large percentage of Obama's vote margins came from. It is stupid to deny that fact. I am still awaiting for an explanation of why some inner city precincts cast 114% of their registered votes for Obama in the last election.

[SoonerProphet]

It's always easier to buy into perpetuated stereotypes, Dems are all welfare queens or the Repubs are all religious wackos. It stifles debate and uses simplistic logic.

[FaninAma]

It's always easier to buy into perpetuated stereotypes, Dems are all welfare queens or the Repubs are all religious wackos. It stifles debate and uses simplistic logic.

Yes, it is, especially if the claim is true.
http://wallstreetpit.com/89671-are-welfare-recipients-mostly-republican/

[diverdog]

Nobody said that the entire population of the coastal areas but a large percentage of those who live in urban centers on the coast and elsewhere are and that is where a large percentage of Obama's vote margins came from. It is stupid to deny that fact. I am still awaiting for an explanation of why some inner city precincts cast 114% of their registered votes for Obama in the last election.

California, Guam and DC are the highest. But on a per 100 basis Alaska and Montana are worse than NY.

Election fraud is fractional. No doubt it goes on in places like Philly. In case you have not figured it out Romney ran a horrible campaign. Ditto for McCain. That is why they lost.

[diverdog]

Yes, it is, especially if the claim is true.
http://wallstreetpit.com/89671-are-welfare-recipients-mostly-republican/

I would be curious to see stats that include SS, government pensions and medicare.

[FaninAma]

California, Guam and DC are the highest. But on a per 100 basis Alaska and Montana are worse than NY.

Election fraud is fractional. No doubt it goes on in places like Philly. In case you have not figured it out Romney ran a horrible campaign. Ditto for McCain. That is why they lost.
No doubt but it doesn't change the fact that a large majority of those who are on government welfare programs vote for Democratic candidates.

[badger]

time will tell, I guess

[diverdog]

No doubt but it doesn't change the fact that a large majority of those who are on government welfare programs vote for Democratic candidates.

I would not disagree with that fact.

[radio]

California, Guam and DC are the highest. But on a per 100 basis Alaska and Montana are worse than NY.

Election fraud is fractional. No doubt it goes on in places like Philly. In case you have not figured it out Romney ran a horrible campaign. Ditto for McCain. That is why they lost.


They are on the same team. Just like professional rass-ling....In case you have not figured it out. lol

[diverdog]

They are on the same team. Just like professional rass-ling....In case you have not figured it out. lol


LOL. How true!

[diverdog]

Yes, it is, especially if the claim is true.
http://wallstreetpit.com/89671-are-welfare-recipients-mostly-republican/

here ya go:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/opinion/our-hidden-government-benefits.html?_r=1

[Soonerjeepman]

Jeep there are tons of people in rural areas who get handouts. 60 Minutes did a story on a town in Ky where most people get SSI.

I will also tell you that the work culture in the east is brutal. My wife worked for JP Morgan in NYC and 100 hour work weeks were not uncommon. But she was getting 90k in bonuses in the 80's until she quit to be a teacher. Delaware has a above avg unemployment rate and we pay among the highest in per capita federal income taxes at an average above $18000 per year. So the entire notion that people on the coast are dependent on the government is bogus.

DD, I never said it was a coastal issue...and yes I did see the piece on Ky. I'd put Detroit and Chicago up there...and (well to me) there are not coastal.

[diverdog]

DD, I never said it was a coastal issue...and yes I did see the piece on Ky. I'd put Detroit and Chicago up there...and (well to me) there are not coastal.

Don't get me wrong some of these programs need to be cut. SSI in particular.

BTW the lawyer in the 60 Minutes piece was arrested. Thanks in large part to the work done by Senator Coburn and his staff.

[FaninAma]

here ya go:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/opinion/our-hidden-government-benefits.html?_r=1

This quote form the article is just imbecilic:

Another set of programs, including Medicare, Pell Grants and Social Security retirement benefits, are also fairly visible, though each contains characteristics that can camouflage government’s role.

Pell grants may qualify as a direct payment but I would be all too happy to have the federal government allow me to keep my Social Security and Medicare "contributions" and invest them myself.

[8timechamps]

Are the statistics outlined in the OP not factual? Perhaps the reason the letter has been around since Gore is because it applies to every Democratic Presidential candidate who has ran for that office since 1980.

The Democrats appeal to primarily urban dwelling retards who live on the coasts in small geographic areas and who depend on the rest of the country to supply them with food, energy and other staples. Democrats, by and large, fall into 1 of 2 groups:

1.Elitists who think they are smarter than everybody else and who want to tell us what we need to do.
2.Dependent people who need elitists to tell them what to do and need somebody to take care of them.

I think you're giving too much credit to the average voter (Republican and Democrat). I don't think most average people think much past their party affiliation.

My 71 year old mom is a perfect example. She's a die hard republican, but couldn't tell you anything that the republicans are doing. Recently, I had a discussion with her about Obama, and all she could say was "I can't stand him". I kept pushing her to answer why, and she finally just said "He's a democrat". That was her only reason. I'm no huge fan of Obama, but I wanted to know exactly why she dislikes him so much (as does my 94 year old grandmother).

My mom is a very educated woman (Masters in Nursing), and isn't a dumb person. She votes in every election, but if pressed, couldn't tell you why she votes the way she does other than "they're republican".

I think that's common with a lot of the country (on both sides).

[diverdog]

This quote form the article is just imbecilic:


Pell grants may qualify as a direct payment but I would be all too happy to have the federal government allow me to keep my Social Security and Medicare "contributions" and invest them myself.

Fanin:

There are lots of people who receive far more in SS and Medicare benefits than they paid in.

My problem with the whole tea party movement is that a lot of them would be SOL if the government stopped paying them tomorrow. When you have members who get two government retirements and SS then there is an issue because they have gamed the system. That describes most of my dads friends who are tea party activist.

[Soonerjeepman]

Don't get me wrong some of these programs need to be cut. SSI in particular.

BTW the lawyer in the 60 Minutes piece was arrested. Thanks in large part to the work done by Senator Coburn and his staff.

that's good, but what is frustrating is the frickin GOVERNMENT employees NEW it was fraud but couldn't do anything. We've had our "talks", I have no problem helping those that #1 are trying #2 WANT to improve. Talking to our kitchen cafeteria manager, late 40's uneducated black woman. 2 kids, 2nd a girl has 3 kids by 2 guys, a ****load of tats, and now is on welfare....at 23 maybe. THAT is bull****...she was a decent kid but didn't apply herself. She gets $800 a month for housing, $700 for the apartment (she pays $87) the rest goes to "help" pay her electric bill. Along with food stamps etc.

[diverdog]

that's good, but what is frustrating is the frickin GOVERNMENT employees NEW it was fraud but couldn't do anything. We've had our "talks", I have no problem helping those that #1 are trying #2 WANT to improve. Talking to our kitchen cafeteria manager, late 40's uneducated black woman. 2 kids, 2nd a girl has 3 kids by 2 guys, a ****load of tats, and now is on welfare....at 23 maybe. THAT is bull****...she was a decent kid but didn't apply herself. She gets $800 a month for housing, $700 for the apartment (she pays $87) the rest goes to "help" pay her electric bill. Along with food stamps etc.

No doubt. SSI and welfare are ripe with fraud. I wish birth control was mandatory if you get welfare and housing paid by the taxpayer.

[KantoSooner]

The Brits predicted that the USofA would not last a decade; in part, at least due to an 'overmixed' population (apparently they got really miffed when lots of their Hessian mercenaries decided to stay in Pennsylvania, among other things).

Someday, our civilization will crumble and collapse. I can say this confidently because all civilizations known have done so. So far, however, there are no real symptoms of such collapse any time soon.

That said, if, for your safety, you worriers decide to decamp to the mountains of Idaho or the pubs of Dublin or whereever you feel safe, please join your buddies, the rapturists, in leaving your good stuff to me to take of while you're gone. Large power boats, lake houses, fine motor cars, wine collections and, perhaps, trophy wives (personal interview required) are particularly welcome.

[diverdog]

The Brits predicted that the USofA would not last a decade; in part, at least due to an 'overmixed' population (apparently they got really miffed when lots of their Hessian mercenaries decided to stay in Pennsylvania, among other things).

Someday, our civilization will crumble and collapse. I can say this confidently because all civilizations known have done so. So far, however, there are no real symptoms of such collapse any time soon.

That said, if, for your safety, you worriers decide to decamp to the mountains of Idaho or the pubs of Dublin or whereever you feel safe, please join your buddies, the rapturists, in leaving your good stuff to me to take of while you're gone. Large power boats, lake houses, fine motor cars, wine collections and, perhaps, trophy wives (personal interview required) are particularly welcome.

I got dibs on Jeeps girlfriend. Lol

[lexsooner]

The Brits predicted that the USofA would not last a decade; in part, at least due to an 'overmixed' population (apparently they got really miffed when lots of their Hessian mercenaries decided to stay in Pennsylvania, among other things).

Someday, our civilization will crumble and collapse. I can say this confidently because all civilizations known have done so. So far, however, there are no real symptoms of such collapse any time soon.

That said, if, for your safety, you worriers decide to decamp to the mountains of Idaho or the pubs of Dublin or whereever you feel safe, please join your buddies, the rapturists, in leaving your good stuff to me to take of while you're gone. Large power boats, lake houses, fine motor cars, wine collections and, perhaps, trophy wives (personal interview required) are particularly welcome.

Contrast these weeping, whining middle class individuals who talk about leaving, hiding, whatever, after losing a couple of elections, with the gutty founders and builders of this country, the Greatest Generation which saved civilization, and the legal immigrants who break their backs and work long hours to make it in this country. No comparison.

[FaninAma]

Contrast these weeping, whining middle class individuals who talk about leaving, hiding, whatever, after losing a couple of elections, with the gutty founders and builders of this country, the Greatest Generation which saved civilization, and the legal immigrants who break their backs and work long hours to make it in this country. No comparison.
Not me. I love this country. Sign me up for SNAP, housing subsidies, earned income tax credits, Subsidized health care, Obamaphones. Hell, I'd settle for a little of that free cash the Fed is dropping on Wall Street. I bet the founders and builders of this country wouldn't recognize it as the Constitutional Republic they established.

[Soonerjeepman]

I got dibs on Jeeps girlfriend. Lol

lol...nice one. yeah she's keeper....it's been "a week" and she's bustin my....well ya know. Told me to be prepared for the weekend...lol

[KantoSooner]

I bet the founders and builders of this country wouldn't recognize it as the Constitutional Republic they established.

I'm sure chatboards, in particular, would fascinate them. On the other hand, they were mostly hard drinking men (check out the bar tab of some of the congressional dinners in Philadelphia. Those boys knew how to partay) and likely not easily upset by rambling, off kilter screeds.

[FaninAma]

I'm sure chatboards, in particular, would fascinate them. On the other hand, they were mostly hard drinking men (check out the bar tab of some of the congressional dinners in Philadelphia. Those boys knew how to partay) and likely not easily upset by rambling, off kilter screeds.
Sounds like a group I'd like to hang out with. A few boilermakers of Irish Mist and Guiness Stout. I'd really like to tell them where they went wrong. LOL.

[KantoSooner]

I'd like some hours with John Jay. He rarely gets written about yet had some of the most interesting Federalist Papers. Plus he and Ben Franklin apparently shared a taste for brandy. And I like that in a man.