Have your way. Turn us into the next Tennessee...

[jkjsooner]

I'm so sick of all this "fire Stoops" bull**** talk. You guys get me sick. If you get your way you'll turn this program back into a laughingstock.

Go ahead and hire the next "can't miss" coach and watch us end up with the next Dennis Franchione or Gary Barnett. Of course, these can't miss coaches would never touch a program who talks about firing a 5-1 coach...

[cherokeebrewer]

Not to worry, it's just the nature of the beast...I seriously doubt Bob is worried about job security.

[badger]

Go ahead and hire the next "can't miss" coach and watch us end up with the next Dennis Franchione or Gary Barnett. Of course, these can't miss coaches would never touch a program who talks about firing a 5-1 coach...

You forgot Todd Graham. He will go to any program that offers money. He's the epitomy of coach whor...

I, for one, welcome our future coaching overlord who will milk our program for a big buyout after a few failed seasons of guaranteed money... assuming he doesn't hop on a motorcycle with a mistress athletic department employee first. Vroom vroom!

In conclusion, we have too many Big 12 titles. If only we stopped treating bowls like the toilet bowl with continued crapping, some of you might be satisfied with our army of Big 12 trophies. Alas, our next coach will probably either hide any reminder of how great our program once was, or steal the recruiting files on his way out the door.

And yes, that ****ing door WILL hit him on the way out. Bring on the BOOM!

[UteSooner]

Yes. All this talk is ridiculous. I'm eager to see the impact of the new assistant coaches (no, one offseason and zero recruiting cycles is too early to see their impact....I'm talking Montgomery and Bedenbaugh....not Mike). I expect the OL and DL to get deeper and better in the next couple years. The defense is obviously getting better under Mike (take the season as a whole) but we need depth to be able to better absorb losses like Nelson and Phillips. I believe that will come too if we've really upgraded on recruiters. Last piece of puzzle is a new OC? Pretty sure there's a thread or two about that one already going so we'll leave it at that.

Bottom line....firing a coach that dominates his conference is stupid and will only backfire. We will spend more than a decade trying to find what we have now. Urban Meyer and Nick Saban aren't coming...and getting the next guy like them is a long shot. Here are our "peers," with all their resources and history and ask yourself why they can't all be as dominant as they hope to be: Michigan, Texas, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Ohio State, Alabama, Tennessee, USC, Georgia, LSU, Penn State, Florida. How many of those do you envy RIGHT NOW? All but 2 would probably prefer Stoops and the success he's had...outside successes of Meyer and Saban at their previous schools. Don't make the mistake of thinking we will have different results than the majority of those teams under a different HC.

[jkjsooner]

Good post, Ute. Every school thinks they're destined to be better than they are.

I would take out LSU from their list. They may be our peer now but traditionally they're not. I'd add in FSU and Miami. While they're not traditional powers (neither is Florida) they've been around for a while now.

[SoonerKnight]

I too agree that talk of a new coach is down right stupid. Stoops is a good coach. Every program goes through rough years. If 10 wins is a rough year I'll take it. Right now we still have a chance to finish the season 11-1. The SEC is getting all the hype and we are below 2 loss teams this will not hold and the BCS polls will fix this. As Stoops said everyone wants to project the end of the year and you can not do that. I believe that we will pull in some good recruits and right the ship. As I said before I am sure Stoops allows his coaches a certain amount of control in recruiting and day to day management. When the coaches that got fired last year were not producing Stoop's took action.

I want to believe that Stoop's wants to win at least 2 more MNC's. He has madwe mention before that having the wins is only part of the tradition at Oklahoma. He knows he needs to bring #8 and #9 in order to be close to Bud and Barry!!!

[UteSooner]

I would take out LSU from their list. They may be our peer now but traditionally they're not. I'd add in FSU and Miami. While they're not traditional powers (neither is Florida) they've been around for a while now.

Well whatever list you want to put together (I just took a list of schools with the most wins...then tacked on Florida), the results are the same. We're lucky to have Bob. You didn't have to live through the 90s to know this, but you do have to have a brain.

[UteSooner]

And this tread has nothing to do with total satisfaction with Stoops or with defending Saturday's crappiness. By all means vent frustrations...It's important however that the fanbase recognize what they have and not demand we throw it away.

[SoonerKnight]

It's the same fanbase that wanted to get rid of Switzer in 80 or 81.

[Tear Down This Wall]

And this tread has nothing to do with total satisfaction with Stoops or with defending Saturday's crappiness. By all means vent frustrations...It's important however that the fanbase recognize what they have and not demand we throw it away.

No one is saying throw him out now. We are saying if this continues for a couple of years, don't be as stupid as Texas and hang on while the thing is slowly sinking into mediocrity.

[mojorisen2014]

Jim Donnan is available

[SoonerKnight]

So, this talk is because we think that Stoops will end up like Mack Brown? Are you kidding me? We will never fall to that level!!!

[SoonerorLater]

The majority opinion on this board is that even considering replacing Bob Stoops is just pain crazy. Just unthinkable.

Hypothetical. Let's say we end up going 3-3 the rest of the year. Lose to TT, Baylor and OSU. Would that change anybody's opinion on things. If not what would change your mind? Anything?

[cherokeebrewer]

To put this in perspective:

Bud Wilkinson 1960...3-6-1 1961...5-5

Barry Switzer 1981...7-4-1 1982...8-4 1983...8-4 Lost the last 2 bowl games and never beat Miami when it counted.

[BoulderSooner79]

Bob won't have any serious internal heat unless he pulls a 5-7 season. That's not happening anytime soon.

[badger]

It's the same fanbase that wanted to get rid of Switzer in 80 or 81.

Ooo, I bet the Letters to the Editor and the library's microfiche were BUZZING with angry fans back then! Stay off your ham radios folks, or you might be repeatedly asked if we really want to pay 5 cents per ticket to watch a not-as-winning Sooner football team?!

[SoonerorLater]

To put this in perspective:

Bud Wilkinson 1960...3-6-1 1961...5-5

Barry Switzer 1981...7-4-1 1982...8-4 1983...8-4 Lost the last 2 bowl games and never beat Miami when it counted.

And Bud was gone two years later

Barry was not treated well after that stretch. People expected more. Even from a guy That had given then two National Championships.

Yes Barry absolutely beat Miami when it counted. In 1975 we don't win that game we don't win a national championship.

[cherokeebrewer]

And Bud was gone two years laterBarry was not treated well after that stretch. People expected more. Even from a guy That had given then two National Championships.

Yes Barry absolutely beat Miami when it counted. In 1975 we don't win that game we don't win a national championship.

Bud resigned to run for the senate
Miami was not good in 1975

[UteSooner]

Hypothetical. Let's say we end up going 3-3 the rest of the year. Lose to TT, Baylor and OSU. Would that change anybody's opinion on things. If not what would change your mind? Anything?

Nope. Bob knows there's been a slip and has made several coaching changes, the full effects of which won't be felt for several recruiting cycles. I'm much more interested in how that turns out rather than this year (a year we all thought would be a "down" year anyway).

[SoonerorLater]

Bud resigned to run for the senate
Miami was not good in 1975



You said beat them when it counted not beat them when they were good.

[cherokeebrewer]

You said beat them when it counted not beat them when they were good.

Ok, but that was not the point I was attempting to make. Our greatest coaches also had struggles at times and lost when odds said they should not.

[Jacie]

Is Laney available?

[badger]

Is Laney available?

Is that your pet name for Kiffie Kins?

[SoonerorLater]

Ok, but that was not the point I was attempting to make. Our greatest coaches also had struggles at times and lost when odds said they should not.

I don't know if you could call that a struggle. The 1985 loss didn't really matter as we won the NC anyway. The next 2 years were different but those 80's Miami Teams were some of the most dominant in College Football history. Can't say for sure but I would think Miami would have been favored in those games. I can count on one hand the real stinkers that Switzer had over 16 years. Stoops resume is more littered with lopsided losses to good teams and inexplicible losses to average or below average teams. Switzer never had a loss as bad as we had to USC or WV. Switzer's worst day and most costly loss was probably Arkansas but I'm not sure that can all be laid at Switzer's feet.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Nope. Bob knows there's been a slip and has made several coaching changes, the full effects of which won't be felt for several recruiting cycles. I'm much more interested in how that turns out rather than this year (a year we all thought would be a "down" year anyway).

You make too much sense Ute which is why I agree with you wholeheartedly. It won't stop the idiots from jumping the fence because they really think the grass is greener, without realizing those are weeds.

[LakeRat]

Nope. Bob knows there's been a slip and has made several coaching changes, the full effects of which won't be felt for several recruiting cycles. I'm much more interested in how that turns out rather than this year (a year we all thought would be a "down" year anyway).

Why? We won it after two in 2000. Bama after 2. OSU after 2... I don't know why it should take "several" cycles? We should know in the next 18 months at most whether or not the changes are legit.

[UteSooner]

Why? We won it after two in 2000. Bama after 2. OSU after 2... I don't know why it should take "several" cycles? We should know in the next 18 months at most whether or not the changes are legit.

Uh, because those are situtations where a new HC comes into possession of already-present talent. If that talent doesn't exist or runs dry due to recruiting troubles (our argued situation), I'd think you'd have to have several (yes several..the horror!) recruiting cycles to build your depth and allow some of it to mature/develop. Not many teams field a bunch of freshman all-americans. I don't even know what I mean by "several," but I know it's longer than 18 months.

[UteSooner]

Talent/depth is obviously an issue. If I figure correctly, the past three drafts we've averaged .66 1st and 2nd rounders. The 7 years before that we averaged 2.43. That's a huge difference. That won't be solved with one recuiting class.

[LakeRat]

Uh, because those are situtations where a new HC comes into possession of already-present talent. If that talent doesn't exist or runs dry due to recruiting troubles (our argued situation), I'd think you'd have to have several (yes several..the horror!) recruiting cycles to build your depth and allow some of it to mature/develop. Not many teams field a bunch of freshman all-americans. I don't even know what I mean by "several," but I know it's longer than 18 months.

So you believe that Bob won with Blake's players? This has been proven erroneous. You believe that Shula was an amazing recruiter? I am missing something?

Bob brought in a lot of Juco's to fill gaps.

[8timechamps]

A few weeks ago, I made a thread about what Texas was looking forward to when Mack is gone. Doing research for that thread, I made some surprising revelations...the biggest being how hard it is to replace a winning coach that has been at a school for any real length of time.

Tennessee, Michigan, Nebraska

History is loaded with examples. While no one coach is bigger than any program, it's fair to say that finding a coach that can win consistently is very, very difficult.

Stoops had earned the right to stay as long as he wants. I will fully support him. Name another team, that has a better record, over the past 15 years with the same coach at the helm. You can't.

[Jacie]

Stoops had earned the right to stay as long as he wants. I will fully support him. Name another team, that has a better record, over the past 15 years with the same coach at the helm. You can't.

One would think the same could be said of Mack Brown but apparently some of the orange bloods hold a different opinion.

[UteSooner]

So you believe that Bob won with Blake's players? This has been proven erroneous. You believe that Shula was an amazing recruiter? I am missing something?

So you're saying that the already-in-place players didn't contribute and didn't add needed depth? I'll admit I've never studied that but I'm not sure how that's mathematically possible given recruiting limits. I didn't mean to suggest the previous coaches left the cupboard completely full, but they didn't leave it empty either...it's not like they took over Kansas State in the shape Snyder did.

And I'm not suggesting we are completely empty either--don't get me wrong. We have some talent but could use a few years to sure up our lines. I'm sorry if several cycles pains you.....wouldn't your mythical new HC need the same?

And you know we are arguing over 1 year...don't you? By several I mean 3....maybe it will be 2 I don't know. Maybe you could start this tread again when you don't like how the 2015 season is going. Maybe I'll make a note to start it myself...

[8timechamps]

One would think the same could be said of Mack Brown but apparently some of the orange bloods hold a different opinion.

Mack's problems are largely self inflicted. How many times over the past few years has he said "This is our year, we have a special group", or something similar. Then, when the team goes out and has a 5-7 season, fans are infuriated. Can't blame them.

If Stoops were to somehow have a 5-7 season, that would certainly put some heat on him. But to hear the fan rumblings, after the first loss of the year, is pretty funny (although not unexpected).

[BoulderSooner79]

Too bad we didn't have online fan boards in 1957 (or maybe thanks goodness?). I'm sure there would have been a "fire Bud" thread after losing to the domers.

[SoonerorLater]

Too bad we didn't have online fan boards in 1957 (or maybe thanks goodness?). I'm sure there would have been a "fire Bud" thread after losing to the domers.

I don't think we would but to prove my point let's have Bob run off 47 in a row to find out.

[ashley]

The OP is correct.

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't think we would but to prove my point let's have Bob run off 47 in a row to find out.

Good plan. I remember reading about a letter to a newspaper from a fan demanding Wilkinson be fired after that loss. Don't know if that's true or just folklore.

[8timechamps]

Good plan. I remember reading about a letter to a newspaper from a fan demanding Wilkinson be fired after that loss. Don't know if that's true or just folklore.

I remember something similar.

I used to be an overly critical fan, getting really upset after any loss. Then, somewhere along the way, I started to put it into perspective. We win more than we lose, and we are occasionally in the national title hunt. We're in the conference title hunt most years, and going to a game is always fun. I just can't get too upset over it anymore.

[landrun]

....Stoops had earned the right to stay as long as he wants.

Ummm... no. He has not.

[8timechamps]

Ummm... no. He has not.

Ummm...yes. He has. And I bet Castiglione and Boren agree.

[landrun]

Uh, because those are situtations where a new HC comes into possession of already-present talent. If that talent doesn't exist or runs dry due to recruiting troubles (our argued situation), I'd think you'd have to have several (yes several..the horror!) recruiting cycles to build your depth and allow some of it to mature/develop. .... I don't even know what I mean by "several," but I know it's longer than 18 months.

So, you're saying we're worse off now than when Blake left. It will take longer to win another national championship now than it did when Blake left.
This is what you're saying. Think about it.

And you somehow use this to logically conclude that we should keep Stoops? Because our recruiting has fallen off so badly, our player evaluation and player development is so bad right now, that we can't reasonable expect a great coach like Bob Stoops to turn this mess around in one year.

I would use these same facts to say Bob Stoops should be held accountable ... and to argue that Stoops isn't all he's cracked up to be.

[bluedogok]

One would think the same could be said of Mack Brown but apparently some of the orange bloods hold a different opinion.
The opinions of most UT boosters, alumni, ex-players, fans really doesn't matter to the administration, they won't do a thing to honor their wishes. There are only a few that matter, Red/Joe and the regents.

[Jacie]

There was the infamous off-the-cuff remark made by then-President (Dollar) Bill Banowsky after The King's team had done the unthinkable and lost 4 games in a season for the third year in a row (let that sink in a moment . . .). Feeling the heat from the Regenst and the grumbling of Sooner fans, Bill said, ". . . Barry, if you win the national championship, the regents won't fire you even if we catch you smoking dope."

Lo and behold, a year later Barry delivered that national championship. He was not fired. Coach Switzer called it quits four years later after it stopped being fun and I won't go into that.

[UteSooner]

So, you're saying we're worse off now than when Blake left. It will take longer to win another national championship now than it did when Blake left.
This is what you're saying. Think about it.

And you somehow use this to logically conclude that we should keep Stoops? Because our recruiting has fallen off so badly, our player evaluation and player development is so bad right now, that we can't reasonable expect a great coach like Bob Stoops to turn this mess around in one year.

I would use these same facts to say Bob Stoops should be held accountable ... and to argue that Stoops isn't all he's cracked up to be.

Yes I realize I'm giving him more time than it took to win the first one. I stand by my logic 100%. We can either wait for the results of the new staff (and I don't mean giving him until next year to win the national championship), or we can fire Bob and go through several hires of several years each trying to move from a top 5 coach to a top 1-2 coach. I'll bet on the former every time. The latter strategy will end poorly 90% of the time.

The new coaches haven't even recruited a single class (and I mean OL and DL coaches). Even so, can anyone argue that their presence hasn't already been felt? In one offseason we actually have a hope to run the ball. In one offseason we put in place a new defensive scheme that is much improved (we just need more depth to be able to absorb 2 injuries). Even if we lose to Baylor and OSU the signs are there. Give it time to play out. It's a much safter bet.

And Bob should be held accountable...but for now he should be held accountable for winning a NC and 8 Big 12 titles in 13 years. Any other talk is ridiculous.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Baloney, Ute. Stoops won his one national title with a roster and starting lineup full of guys John Blake had recruited.

The problem here is the tendency for Stoops to spit the bit in games he's heavily favored to win. As posted before, he's lost 12 now where his squad was favored by double digits.

This isn't a game that was hard fought, down to the wire, with both team making plays. OU came out flat, got hit, and never answered the bell. That isn't acceptable when it develops into a pattern.

Like at Texas, the games Bob Stoops farts away (like the games Mack Brown farts away) are forgotten once all of the Kansases, Iowa States, Texas Techs, and other vomit Big 12 programs are beaten.

Like at Texas, much of the fan base is fooled into believing, "See, it was no big deal." And, it wouldn't be if it happened every five years instead of every year.

As far as the new coaches recruiting, that has already been posted - we are not in the running for any of the top defensive or offensive linemen in the country. That isn't acceptable either. The game is won and lost in the trenches.

[BoulderSooner79]

As I've posted before, OU is almost always favored, so they only lose when they are favored. Even before this season started and many people had OSU and UT ranked higher than OU, people were still saying OU will be favored going into every game. What's up with that? If anyone was actually watching games this year and have seen how we have struggled on offense against every team except Tulsa, it's hard to see how we were double digit favorites against the horns. To win by double digits, we would have to score as much as the horns PLUS double digits. Where the heck was that going to come from? The line was based on people betting the horns would play poorly, not on OUr strength. Bama has lost 5 games in the last 4 years and they were favored in all of them. Does that mean Saban spits the bit at least one game a year? They do have 3 crystal balls in those 4 years.

I'm not trying to pump sunshine here; this year's squad has issues. I'm just saying that basing judgement on who's if favored by external observers is stupid. Those people are often stupid or ignorant. The high level question is if this team is well coached and executing to their level of talent. The even higher level question is how is the program doing to keep top talent coming in and develop that talent into a top team. I think there are real concerns there. This is a transition team, but it not clear where the transition is going. Also, this is not a super talented team and the recruiting over the last few years doesn't make it obvious that is getting better.

[UteSooner]

Baloney, Ute. Stoops won his one national title with a roster and starting lineup full of guys John Blake had recruited.

I never argued he didn't win with Blake's guys. That was LakeRat.


As far as the new coaches recruiting, that has already been posted - we are not in the running for any of the top defensive or offensive linemen in the country. That isn't acceptable either. The game is won and lost in the trenches.

Like I already said: They haven't even brought in a single recruiting class. You can't evaluate what isn't there. Heck, can you even rate a class the second you sign them? Let's save that thread for the offseason...


The problem here is the tendency for Stoops to spit the bit in games he's heavily favored to win. As posted before, he's lost 12 now where his squad was favored by double digits.

This isn't a game that was hard fought, down to the wire, with both team making plays. OU came out flat, got hit, and never answered the bell. That isn't acceptable when it develops into a pattern.

Have I ever said Stoops is above criticism? No. I hate this as much as anyone, but when you're favored in every game it will happen. Pete Carroll had those games every year after 04. Should he have been on the hot seat? Look at Meyer's years at Florida--he lost games he shouldn't have every single year except 09 (and even then he laid an egg against Bama). Would you not like Meyer? Who do you want that isn't Saban? Where are these coaches that live up to your expectations and why can't other traditional powers find them?

[swardboy]

People are always pulling out the Saban/Alabama comparison. Face it, that coach and team are on the red hot streak of their lives. Pull them OUT of the conversation and who do you compare to Stoops? I mean, is there really ANY other name in the conversation except maybe Urban? And his character has its stains. This is such rarified atmosphere.

I want to see the first/only major overhaul of Stoops assistants play out.

[BoulderSooner79]

People are always pulling out the Saban/Alabama comparison. Face it, that coach and team are on the red hot streak of their lives. Pull them OUT of the conversation and who do you compare to Stoops? I mean, is there really ANY other name in the conversation except maybe Urban? And his character has its stains. This is such rarified atmosphere.

I want to see the first/only major overhaul of Stoops assistants play out.

Totally agree with this. We were the hot team from '00-'03 and then Stoops pulled a rabbit out of his hat in '04. I'm sure every other fan base made the OU/Stoops comparison back in those days. It would be nice to get there again, but even if we do, we'll lose some games and we'll be favored in all of them when it happens. I hope these new coaches elevate us there so we can bitch on a higher level.

[UteSooner]

People are always pulling out the Saban/Alabama comparison. Face it, that coach and team are on the red hot streak of their lives.

And even they've relied on a lot of luck during their run.....they've only been undefeated once during it.....every other time they've had to count on others losing to let them back into the game. If those teams don't lose...does Saban appear to be the world beater we regard him as? He doesn't exactly win the SEC every year. I don't say this to dog on him. I regard him as the best coach out there (hard to argue otherwise), but if those other teams don't lose...he's won 1 NC and only 2 SEC titles (not counting at LSU) up to this point.

[badger]

by gawd, it's like we're all debating if it's worse to steal $300K or sleep with Lumberg.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2eg8avq.png
and as long as we're making metoyer jokes today...that photo needs to be cut off at the waist and farked.

[Mjcpr]

Totally agree with this. We were the hot team from '00-'03 and then Stoops pulled a rabbit out of his hat in '04. I'm sure every other fan base made the OU/Stoops comparison back in those days. It would be nice to get there again, but even if we do, we'll lose some games and we'll be favored in all of them when it happens. I hope these new coaches elevate us there so we can bitch on a higher level.

I've never researched but I'm guessing the double digit favorite collapses we've had were almost all since the 05 debacle against USC (I know, we weren't heavy favorites in that one). In my mind, that's when these inexplicable losses began and they've become pretty routine since.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Okay, here's what you are getting so far, recruiting-wise:

OL
http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Jonathan-Alvarez-152656;_ylt=AiesuyPnSZ0b.ueJXX8PDpyWtJB4
http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Alex-Dalton-136091;_ylt=Asj8rarOBvW5FI8RhGl_ZKuWtJB4

DL
http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Brandon-Glenn-149040;_ylt=Ah2cIXh1T3zQVqyN95qSCnqWtJB4

This is better than what we currently have? It's the same. And, I'd argue probably worse on the offensive line.

[BoulderSooner79]

I've never researched but I'm guessing the double digit favorite collapses we've had were almost all since the 05 debacle against USC (I know, we weren't heavy favorites in that one). In my mind, that's when these inexplicable losses began and they've become pretty routine since.

The pokes trounced us in '02. The final score was only 38-28 if I recall correctly, but that was only after we scored a couple of meaningless TDs late to make it look better.

[LakeRat]

Yes I realize I'm giving him more time than it took to win the first one. I stand by my logic 100%. We can either wait for the results of the new staff (and I don't mean giving him until next year to win the national championship), or we can fire Bob and go through several hires of several years each trying to move from a top 5 coach to a top 1-2 coach. I'll bet on the former every time. The latter strategy will end poorly 90% of the time.

The new coaches haven't even recruited a single class (and I mean OL and DL coaches). Even so, can anyone argue that their presence hasn't already been felt? In one offseason we actually have a hope to run the ball. In one offseason we put in place a new defensive scheme that is much improved (we just need more depth to be able to absorb 2 injuries). Even if we lose to Baylor and OSU the signs are there. Give it time to play out. It's a much safter bet.

And Bob should be held accountable...but for now he should be held accountable for winning a NC and 8 Big 12 titles in 13 years. Any other talk is ridiculous.

How do you figure? I struggle not placing, Saban, Meyer, Lester, The dude at Oregon, Baylor, Sumlin... I have him 15 to 20ish.

[BoulderSooner79]

How do you figure? I struggle not placing, Saban, Meyer, Lester, The dude at Oregon, Baylor, Sumlin... I have him 15 to 20ish.

Don't think we can crown the dude at Oregon after only 6 games. Maybe you mean the dude that used to be at Oregon, but he's given up CFB for a while.

[UteSooner]

How do you figure? I struggle not placing, Saban, Meyer, Lester, The dude at Oregon, Baylor, Sumlin... I have him 15 to 20ish.


Don't think we can crown the dude at Oregon after only 6 games. Maybe you mean the dude that used to be at Oregon, but he's given up CFB for a while.

Yes. Including Mark Helfrich in your first 6 names is telling. If you can compile such a list (15-20...I'd say more than 4) it's not based on actual accomplishment but speculation. Art Briles and his 2 CUSA titles (at Houston) and 1 narrow victory against Stoops with a Heisman winner (in 5 years at Baylor) puts him in your top 6? Can we wait on Sumlin until his biggest accomplishment isn't 1 Cotton Bowl with a Heisman winner? Les Miles? Please...that's a wash at best (admitted cringe). Who else you got? How about someone we can judge on something other than your own speculation about how good they'll be in the future or at another school under different circumstances. Show me the championships, etc. Take your time.

I'll admit that Bob's place on the list is helped when people like Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly or Jim Harbaugh leave the college game. Heck Tressel isn't even here anymore.

[swardboy]

Could we hijack this thread into a discussion of head coaches with the hottest wives? Oh wait, Stoops does pretty good there too.

[UteSooner]

Could we hijack this thread into a discussion of head coaches with the hottest wives? Oh wait, Stoops does pretty good there too.

Hire Kiffin!

[LakeRat]

Yes. Including Mark Helfrich in your first 6 names is telling. If you can compile such a list (15-20...I'd say more than 4) it's not based on actual accomplishment but speculation. Art Briles and his 2 CUSA titles (at Houston) and 1 narrow victory against Stoops with a Heisman winner (in 5 years at Baylor) puts him in your top 6? Can we wait on Sumlin until his biggest accomplishment isn't 1 Cotton Bowl with a Heisman winner? Les Miles? Please...that's a wash at best (admitted cringe). Who else you got? How about someone we can judge on something other than your own speculation about how good they'll be in the future or at another school under different circumstances. Show me the championships, etc. Take your time.

I'll admit that Bob's place on the list is helped when people like Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly or Jim Harbaugh leave the college game. Heck Tressel isn't even here anymore.

1. Helfrich was the OC... That team as a whole is better this year than ever. That is telling. They are a perennial top 5 team that is better than last year. We are not a top 5 team and possibly not a top 5 program over the last 10 years.
2. Sumlin took a team who was 6th-7th in the big X12 and now is top 4 in the SEC. That is a big move.
3. Bryles has taken "Baylor" and produced several top draft picks and a hesiman and a no questions asked top 25 team. And he was successful at Houston as well. Without counting I would bet he has more people drafted since he has been there than OU.
4. Les has how many championships to Bob has 1?
5. Saban...
6. Meyer...
7. The current Stanford coach has a better program since he has been there than Bob in same time frame.
8. Ole Miss coach is close to a similar level
9. Florida State went from not top 25 to top 5 in a quick hurry.
10. Clemson coach.

To say he is over the last 4 or so years, unequivocally, don't argue it, top 5 is a stretch and I struggle with it.

[BoulderSooner79]

Helfrich may end up a top coach and he may be the real one behind Kelly's success. Time will tell, but let's see how he handles a little adversity which is sure to come his way.

[UteSooner]

Look these are all great coaches no doubt, but if you're willing to look past Bob's accomplishments and the lack thereof on this list, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

1. Helfrich...after 6 games...really?
2. Sumlin...like I said, he might be great. But too early to tell...Like I said his biggest accomplishment is a Cotton Bowl...
3. Briles...2 CUSA titles, no Big 12 titles and a 1-4 record vs. OU.
4. Les Miles has won the SEC 2/8 years and has made it to BCS games 3/8 years...has one NC but was let in to the game with 2 losses. A wash at best.
5. Saban...duh
6. Meyer...duh
7. Shaw was given what Harbaugh built so it's difficult to judge. He's won the Pac 1/2 years. Shouldn't he have beaten my Utes last Saturday? Maybe some post-Harbaugh cracks finally beginning to show? Washington should have won the week before too.
8. Hugh Freeze....based on a 7-6 season, a 3-3 start and some bought recruits?
9. Jimbo...maybe...he'll probably assert himself with Famous Jameis
10. Swinney based on what? Winning the ACC once with a 3 loss team before getting raped by WV?

Only sure things I see are Saban and Meyer....Miles is a wash...Sumlin, Fisher and Shaw are still maybes in my mind...not enough to go on. Bob as top 5 is less of a stretch then claiming 15-20 (even your listed 10) coaches above Stoops.

[CatfishSooner]

Miles has 2 NC's...

[CatfishSooner]

1. Helfrich was the OC... That team as a whole is better this year than ever. That is telling. They are a perennial top 5 team that is better than last year. We are not a top 5 team and possibly not a top 5 program over the last 10 years.
2. Sumlin took a team who was 6th-7th in the big X12 and now is top 4 in the SEC. That is a big move.
3. Bryles has taken "Baylor" and produced several top draft picks and a hesiman and a no questions asked top 25 team. And he was successful at Houston as well. Without counting I would bet he has more people drafted since he has been there than OU.
4. Les has how many championships to Bob has 1?
5. Saban...
6. Meyer...
7. The current Stanford coach has a better program since he has been there than Bob in same time frame.
8. Ole Miss coach is close to a similar level
9. Florida State went from not top 25 to top 5 in a quick hurry.
10. Clemson coach.

To say he is over the last 4 or so years, unequivocally, don't argue it, top 5 is a stretch and I struggle with it.

You're an idiot...

[BoulderSooner79]

Miles has 2 NC's...

Which ones? I thought Saban was LSU coach when they played us.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

There's a lot of women out there in a hysteria. Usual suspects I guess.

[jkjsooner]

Miles has 2 NC's...

You guys just making stuff up? Miles has one title. Saban was LSU's coach in 2003.

Google is your friend. Try it sometime.

[Curly Bill]

Okay, here's what you are getting so far, recruiting-wise:

OL
http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Jonathan-Alvarez-152656;_ylt=AiesuyPnSZ0b.ueJXX8PDpyWtJB4
http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Alex-Dalton-136091;_ylt=Asj8rarOBvW5FI8RhGl_ZKuWtJB4

DL
http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/recruiting/player-Brandon-Glenn-149040;_ylt=Ah2cIXh1T3zQVqyN95qSCnqWtJB4

This is better than what we currently have? It's the same. And, I'd argue probably worse on the offensive line.

Anybody that thinks our recruiting is on an uptick is clueless, or they're looking at it through their crimson sunglasses which as fans is understandable I guess, and I'm sure it helps em sleep better - you know: being all loyal to Bob and all, cause they're "real fans", but when you're having to beat out North Texas and Houston for the guys we're landing, and we're not really in the running for but more than a few of the guys that'll end up at Bama, LSU and the like, well..it's not looking good. Not looking at all!

[cleller]

Look these are all great coaches no doubt, but if you're willing to look past Bob's accomplishments and the lack thereof on this list, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

1. Helfrich...after 6 games...really?
2. Sumlin...like I said, he might be great. But too early to tell...Like I said his biggest accomplishment is a Cotton Bowl...
3. Briles...2 CUSA titles, no Big 12 titles and a 1-4 record vs. OU.
4. Les Miles has won the SEC 2/8 years and has made it to BCS games 3/8 years...has one NC but was let in to the game with 2 losses. A wash at best.
5. Saban...duh
6. Meyer...duh
7. Shaw was given what Harbaugh built so it's difficult to judge. He's won the Pac 1/2 years. Shouldn't he have beaten my Utes last Saturday? Maybe some post-Harbaugh cracks finally beginning to show? Washington should have won the week before too.
8. Hugh Freeze....based on a 7-6 season, a 3-3 start and some bought recruits?
9. Jimbo...maybe...he'll probably assert himself with Famous Jameis
10. Swinney based on what? Winning the ACC once with a 3 loss team before getting raped by WV?

Only sure things I see are Saban and Meyer....Miles is a wash...Sumlin, Fisher and Shaw are still maybes in my mind...not enough to go on. Bob as top 5 is less of a stretch then claiming 15-20 (even your listed 10) coaches above Stoops.

I've mentioned before that I don't believe Stoops should be fired, its just frustrating around here these days. However, which coach/team on this list do you think we could actually knock off right now? Possibly Briles. Saban, Sumlin, Miles, Meyer, no way on earth.
If you've seen their teams, you'd know that Freeze, Fisher and Swinney would run us off the field right now.

[8timechamps]

Anybody that thinks our recruiting is on an uptick is clueless, or they're looking at it through their crimson sunglasses which as fans is understandable I guess, and I'm sure it helps em sleep better - you know: being all loyal to Bob and all, cause they're "real fans", but when you're having to beat out North Texas and Houston for the guys we're landing, and we're not really in the running for but more than a few of the guys that'll end up at Bama, LSU and the like, well..it's not looking good. Not looking at all!

I sleep good every night. But that proably has a lot to do with the fact that I have no say in who is, or isn't being recruited. So, since I know Stoops isn't going to be phoning me to fly out and take a look at a kid, I feel pretty comfortable knowing that he's got that under control.

As diehard a fan I am, and as loyal a fan I am to my school, I just don't get emotionally overworked after one loss. Some folks do, and I hope it helps them cope. I just don't have the time to continually second guess everything that goes on.

For this year, I'm going to wait intil the final game is over. I expected a 9-3/10-2 season, so I suspect that's still a real possibility.

[UteSooner]

Anybody that thinks our recruiting is on an uptick is clueless, or they're looking at it through their crimson sunglasses which as fans is understandable I guess, and I'm sure it helps em sleep better - you know: being all loyal to Bob and all, cause they're "real fans", but when you're having to beat out North Texas and Houston for the guys we're landing, and we're not really in the running for but more than a few of the guys that'll end up at Bama, LSU and the like, well..it's not looking good. Not looking at all!

I'll admit I'm worried that the recruiting won't get better, but I've decided not to pass judgement on their ability to upgrade the talent after only 8 months. I've never claimed it's already on the upswing (although I argue the coaching of the new assistants is already evident...the results being positive). If it doesn't pan out, I doubt Bob gets another staff revamp and I won't argue for him to get the chance. This is simply premature...by years.

And don't start that "real fan" crap...

[LakeRat]

Look these are all great coaches no doubt, but if you're willing to look past Bob's accomplishments and the lack thereof on this list, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

1. Helfrich...after 6 games...really?
2. Sumlin...like I said, he might be great. But too early to tell...Like I said his biggest accomplishment is a Cotton Bowl...
3. Briles...2 CUSA titles, no Big 12 titles and a 1-4 record vs. OU.
4. Les Miles has won the SEC 2/8 years and has made it to BCS games 3/8 years...has one NC but was let in to the game with 2 losses. A wash at best.
5. Saban...duh
6. Meyer...duh
7. Shaw was given what Harbaugh built so it's difficult to judge. He's won the Pac 1/2 years. Shouldn't he have beaten my Utes last Saturday? Maybe some post-Harbaugh cracks finally beginning to show? Washington should have won the week before too.
8. Hugh Freeze....based on a 7-6 season, a 3-3 start and some bought recruits?
9. Jimbo...maybe...he'll probably assert himself with Famous Jameis
10. Swinney based on what? Winning the ACC once with a 3 loss team before getting raped by WV?

Only sure things I see are Saban and Meyer....Miles is a wash...Sumlin, Fisher and Shaw are still maybes in my mind...not enough to go on. Bob as top 5 is less of a stretch then claiming 15-20 (even your listed 10) coaches above Stoops.

My point was back when it was stated that he is a no question top 5. I would prefer Stoops over most of these guys... But to say that some of these names can't be in the conversation is ridiculous. Top 15 is low I agree. But to say he is without a doubt top 5 is biased IMO.

Would like to add Snyder to the conversation.

[LakeRat]

You're an idiot...

Go somewhere else lemming! Add to the conversation like UTE

[badger]

Sooo... are we Tennessee yet?
http://www.collegiatecamo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/tennessee-volunteers-mascot-smokey-bluetick-coonhound.jpg
Oh dear lord we have a dog mascot. :eek:

[UteSooner]

Top 15 is low I agree. But to say he is without a doubt top 5 is biased IMO.

The most unbiased thing I have to go on is him winning a major conference 61.5% of the time (over an extended period), owning a NC and making it to 3 others. There aren't 4 other current coaches with that kind of resume. You take that thinking out of the equation and all you're left with is hypotheticals...where bias creeps in. Would Bob Stoops be Mark Richt in the SEC? Who knows. Would Bill Snyder be Nick Saban with the resources of a "power" school? Who knows. Will Sumlin spend his career winning championships, or behind Alabama and LSU in the standings? Who knows.

I prefer to reserve my "top 5" esteem for guys I don't have to speculate about...either based on resume or "up-and-comers" that REALLY stand out (Jim Harbaugh or Chip Kelly rather than Sumlin, Shaw, or Fisher). But that's just my approach. Everyone's entitled to their own.

[SoonerorLater]

The most unbiased thing I have to go on is him winning a major conference 61.5% of the time (over an extended period), owning a NC and making it to 3 others. There aren't 4 other current coaches with that kind of resume. You take that thinking out of the equation and all you're left with is hypotheticals...where bias creeps in. Would Bob Stoops be Mark Richt in the SEC? Who knows. Would Bill Snyder be Nick Saban with the resources of a "power" school? Who knows. Will Sumlin spend his career winning championships, or behind Alabama and LSU in the standings? Who knows.

I prefer to reserve my "top 5" esteem for guys I don't have to speculate about...either based on resume or "up-and-comers" that REALLY stand out (Jim Harbaugh or Chip Kelly rather than Sumlin, Shaw, or Fisher). But that's just my approach. Everyone's entitled to their own.

Here are the Final Poll ranking of the OU Program for the last five years

2008 Bob Stoops 12–2 5 5
2009 Bob Stoops 8–5 unranked
2010 Bob Stoops 12–2 6 6
2011 Bob Stoops 10–3 15 16
2012 Bob Stoops 10–3 15 15

Taken in context those 10 win seasons don't mean all that much any more. IMO this isn't the record indicative of a top 5 coach.

[UteSooner]

IMO this isn't the record indicative of a top 5 coach.

That's fine. Can we examine the past 5 years of your top 5 active coaches?

Also, I don't know how you can ignore the 8 previous years given the fact that Stoops acknowledges a drop-off and has taken measures to remedy...What if he DOES know the problem and how to fix it? Can he have 1999-2007 back?

[Curly Bill]

The most unbiased thing I have to go on is him winning a major conference 61.5% of the time (over an extended period), owning a NC and making it to 3 others. There aren't 4 other current coaches with that kind of resume. You take that thinking out of the equation and all you're left with is hypotheticals...where bias creeps in. Would Bob Stoops be Mark Richt in the SEC? Who knows. Would Bill Snyder be Nick Saban with the resources of a "power" school? Who knows. Will Sumlin spend his career winning championships, or behind Alabama and LSU in the standings? Who knows.

I prefer to reserve my "top 5" esteem for guys I don't have to speculate about...either based on resume or "up-and-comers" that REALLY stand out (Jim Harbaugh or Chip Kelly rather than Sumlin, Shaw, or Fisher). But that's just my approach. Everyone's entitled to their own.

Resume is great and to be respected, but what is he gonna get done this year, next year, and the year after. Bobby Bowden lived on resume at FSU long after he shoulda been put out to pasture. I can respect what Bob has done, but I'm not overly excited by the possibilities he presents going forward.

[SoonerorLater]

That's fine. Can we examine the past 5 years of your top 5 active coaches?

Also, I don't know how you can ignore the 8 previous years given the fact that Stoops acknowledges a drop-off and has taken measures to remedy...What if he DOES know the problem and how to fix it? Can he have 1999-2007 back?

Coaching is what have you done for me lately. I'm glad Bob won a NC in 2000 but the goodwill from that is wearing away. You can't live off past achievements. The first half of Bob's OU tenure looks a lot better than the last half. There is nothing I see happening that says National Championship in the near future. The recruiting has fallen off and we aren't winning head to head recruiting battles with other big time programs.

[UteSooner]

Coaching is what have you done for me lately. I'm glad Bob won a NC in 2000 but the goodwill from that is wearing away. You can't live off past achievements. The first half of Bob's OU tenure looks a lot better than the last half. There is nothing I see happening that says National Championship in the near future. The recruiting has fallen off and we aren't winning head to head recruiting battles with other big time programs.

Ok fine. Even just the last five years. Name your top 5 and we'll examine their record. Stoops looks so similar to Les Miles over that timeframe it's crazy-even down to the NC appearance and unranked year. So I hope it won't include him if not Stoops.

[Blue]

I just don't have the time to continually second guess everything that goes on.



Understatement of the Century! haha.

[SoonerorLater]

Ok fine. Even just the last five years. Name your top 5 and we'll examine their record. Stoops looks so similar to Les Miles over that timeframe it's crazy-even down to the NC appearance and unranked year. So I hope it won't include him if not Stoops.

Nick Saban
Urban Meyer
Chris Petersen
Chip Kelly
David Shaw

[swardboy]

Facepalm.

[UteSooner]

Nick Saban
Urban Meyer
Chris Petersen
Chip Kelly
David Shaw

Chip Kelly isn't active and at this point how do you know Shaw isn't a Frank Solich or Larry Coker? You think that it takes a top 5 coach to do what Petersen does against that schedule? Everyone else who does it takes a job at the next level (instead of amassing the type of record Petersen has). Once they move up they rarely end up an Urban Meyer.

[LakeRat]

Chip Kelly isn't active and at this point how do you know Shaw isn't a Frank Solich or Larry Coker? You think that it takes a top 5 coach to do what Petersen does against that schedule? Everyone else who does it takes a job at the next level (instead of amassing the type of record Petersen has). Once they move up they rarely end up an Urban Meyer.

Sumlin moved up, Saban moved up, Chip Kelly, Mack Brown, Brian Kelly... Name a coach that started as a HC of a major power? Bob, muschamp, shaw, jimbo, Mark Richt, Kiffin, (HC of the raiders)...

This has been a great debate... I am not sure where I stand on it after all the facts are presented.

[jkjsooner]

Sumlin moved up, Saban moved up, Chip Kelly, Mack Brown, Brian Kelly... Name a coach that started as a HC of a major power? Bob, muschamp, shaw, jimbo, Mark Richt, Kiffin, (HC of the raiders)...

This has been a great debate... I am not sure where I stand on it after all the facts are presented.

Some of those guys moved up incrementally. Saban moved up to MSU before LSU and Bama. Mack Brown moved up incrementally to Tulane, UNC, then Texas - and frankly are we looking for the next Mack Brown?

How do we know Peterson isn't the next Dan Hawkins or Dennis Franchione? The issue here is that it's a huge risk and taking such a risk when you have a proven head coach is a dumb move.

[LakeRat]

Some of those guys moved up incrementally. Saban moved up to MSU before LSU and Bama. Mack Brown moved up incrementally to Tulane, UNC, then Texas - and frankly are we looking for the next Mack Brown?

How do we know Peterson isn't the next Dan Hawkins or Dennis Franchione? The issue here is that it's a huge risk and taking such a risk when you have a proven head coach is a dumb move.

I am not advocating we hire Peterson. I was just throwing the fact out that most coaches do move up. Urban Meyer isn't the exception on that basis.

[badger]

We might not be Tennessee yet --- tons of empty seats, looking toward bowl eligibility rather than BCS bowl eligibility, athletic department money issues... so who are we?

1- No national title hopes following loss to unranked team.
2- We might not be the supreme overlord program in the conference, but we might be able to maybe share a stake in it maybe?
3- Fans keep showing up despite all of the above.

We're Georgia people! GEORGIA!

Glory glory Ok-la-ho-ma...

[UteSooner]

I am not advocating we hire Peterson. I was just throwing the fact out that most coaches do move up. Urban Meyer isn't the exception on that basis.

I wasn't trying to say that Urban Meyer is an exception because he moved up, but rather is an exception for continued dominance after doing so. Coaches move up every year. My point was that everyone but Petersen chooses to move up instead of dominating the lower level (and appearing to some as a top 5 coach...and he might be...we just can't know IMO). Take Gary Anderson this past year. What he was able to do at Utah State is amazing. He could have stayed there forever and lived as Petersen does now. My point simply was that lots of coaches impress at the lower level but they rarely turn out to be an Urban Meyer type...even if a lot of them are solid coaches (with the occasional Dan Hawkins).

Bottom line is...I have no idea what to do (good thing I can't do squat but post here). I do believe firing Stoops at this point would be a bad move. If OU is still stale in 3 years (giving time for the new staff) then I'll probably say its time. Even then it'll be terribly hard to support if he's still winning the conference at the rate he continues to.