Recall Jerry Brown!!!!

[okie52]

Jerry Brown Vetoes Bill to Allow Non-citizens on Juries
Monday, 07 Oct 2013 09:20 PM


Gov. Jerry Brown has vetoed a bill that would have allowed non-citizens who are legal residents to serve as jurors in California.

"Jury service, like voting, is quintessentially a prerogative and responsibility of citizenship," Brown said in an announcement Monday accompanying his veto of AB1401. "This bill would permit lawful permanent residents who are not citizens to serve on a jury. I don't think that's right."

The bill by Assemblyman Bob Wieckowski, D-Fremont, was intended to expand the pool of prospective jurors. Wieckowski said in a statement that lawful immigrants are part of the fabric of communities and should be included in such civic obligations.

"They benefit from the protections of our laws, so it is fair and just that they be asked to share in the obligation to do jury duty, just as they serve in our courts, schools, police departments and armed forces," Wieckowski said.

The bill passed the Legislature on a largely party-line vote, with Democrats supporting the idea. Republicans said the lack of available jurors in California courts is due to a shortage of funding, not due to an insufficient pool of jurors.

Assemblyman Rocky Chavez, R-Oceanside, said the legislation was an effort to solve a problem that does not exist, because there is no shortage of people who can be called upon to serve on juries.

"The debate over this bill attempted to create a social wedge in our communities over our justice system," Chavez said in a statement Monday. "The phrase 'jury of your peers' still means something in our criminal justice system."

An estimated 10 million Californians are summoned for jury duty each year and about 4 million are eligible and available to serve, according to the Judicial Council, which administers the state's court system. About 3.2 million complete the service, meaning they waited in a courthouse assembly room or were placed on call.

In 2010-2011, the most recent year available, only about 165,000 people were sworn in as jurors.

© Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/US/Immigrant-Jurors-brown/2013/10/07/id/529767#ixzz2h8dAzdHe
.

Californians shouldn't have to stand for this kind of insensitivity.

[olevetonahill]

Yet he just signed a Law sayin the Illegals can have a Drivers license !

[okie52]

I'm afraid that DL's won't be enough to make our illegals feel like they are part of the "fabric of our communities". Jury duty, voting, benefits.....any caring person can see how inhumane we are to our illegals.

[KantoSooner]

I totally agree that non-citizens should NOT sit on juries.

That said, when I lived in Japan, I sat on a town council panel for juvenile offenders...and it was MANDATORY based on residence! I got selected and couldn't get out of the deal. They also allowed straight up foreigners (legal residents) to run for town council seats. I know of only one Finnish guy who got elected, but still. Kind of freaked me out. Not saying we should do it that way, but there is a variety of ways people are dealing with more mobile societies.

[okie52]

NYC is pushing for illegals to be able to vote in city elections...Hell even Bloomberg opposes that but it may still become law given the overwhelming dem majority in that city.

[soonercruiser]

Yet he just signed a Law sayin the Illegals can have a Drivers license !

Maybe the illegals could all pile into an SUV, panic as Jerry rides by on his motorcycle, and run over him?
Yes, I'm "bad".
:tranquillity:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

non-citizen =/= illegal

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Oh snap! Not just Jerry BBM.

The law, passed with substantial Republican support, marks a significant departure from past policy in California, which will join at least nine other states that allow undocumented immigrants to drive legally when the law takes effect in 2015.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-usa-california-immigration-idUSBRE99301I20131004

[okie52]

Oh snap! Not just Jerry BBM.

The law, passed with substantial Republican support, marks a significant departure from past policy in California, which will join at least nine other states that allow undocumented immigrants to drive legally when the law takes effect in 2015.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-usa-california-immigration-idUSBRE99301I20131004

Are the road signs now in Spanish?

Edit: not sure about that link

[KantoSooner]

Dunno. In Honolulu, they're in Japanese...and English...and some in Chinese...and even some in Tagalog if I recall correctly.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Some people work for a living and need to get to work.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

it's not unreasonable that a legal permanent resident may serve on a jury for certain cases. Maybe not treason charges, what why not drunk driving or burglary?

[olevetonahill]

Some people work for a living and need to get to work.

Then if the are Illegal shouldnt they just drive back Home?

[okie52]

Dunno. In Honolulu, they're in Japanese...and English...and some in Chinese...and even some in Tagalog if I recall correctly.

Sounds like the direction California is heading....50% latino now. Hawaii's largest demographic is Asian

[okie52]

it's not unreasonable that a legal permanent resident may serve on a jury for certain cases. Maybe not treason charges, what why not drunk driving or burglary?

Why have them on juries at all? Probably for letting them vote, too, eh juan?

[okie52]

Then if the are Illegal shouldnt they just drive back Home?

Heh...if only obama would have been more thoughtful on his cash for clunkers....

[KantoSooner]

Sounds like the direction California is heading....50% latino now. Hawaii's largest demographic is Asian
Hawaii's largest demo may be Asian, but the vast majority of that is native born, English speaking and ultra-patriotic. (Check out the WWII battle performance of the 222 infantry combat team in Europe, still the most highly decorated combat unit of all time, as I recall).
Hawaii did the road signs to cater to tourists.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Why have them on juries at all? Probably for letting them vote, too, eh juan?

It's a workload issue. I get called every two years and so does my wife. Seems reasonable to me to spread the workload among people who are permanent residents. Again, maybe not for all classes of cases.

But it's not a litmus test for me regarding Jerry Brown. He's done an admirable job as Governor.

[okie52]

Hawaii's largest demo may be Asian, but the vast majority of that is native born, English speaking and ultra-patriotic. (Check out the WWII battle performance of the 222 infantry combat team in Europe, still the most highly decorated combat unit of all time, as I recall).
Hawaii did the road signs to cater to tourists.

Heh...I thought it was Mr. Myagi's unit the 442nd....

And Hawaii votes like ****....usually among the most liberal senators and reps in the country.

[okie52]

It's a workload issue. I get called every two years and so does my wife. Seems reasonable to me to spread the workload among people who are permanent residents. Again, maybe not for all classes of cases.

But it's not a litmus test for me regarding Jerry Brown. He's done an admirable job as Governor.


According to the article there isn't a shortage of citizens to serve on Jury duty.

From your perspective I could see why you would support ole Jerry with his dream act, driver licenses, etc... supporting illegals....but he is far from a free marketer which is something I thought you supported....and that last tax hike....Good Gawd....

[KantoSooner]

Heh...I thought it was Mr. Myagi's unit the 442nd....

And Hawaii votes like ****....usually among the most liberal senators and reps in the country.

And it's really odd that it should do so. Most people I've met there (and I made an effort, the grand master plan had me living there by now, so I invested time and effort trying to figure out how things worked there) are very family oriented, hard working and fundamentally conservative.
The local Republicans are kind of weird: a blend of near facist politics and rejection of any population who doesn't instantly vote their way without question. So that might have something to do with it.

[okie52]

And it's really odd that it should do so. Most people I've met there (and I made an effort, the grand master plan had me living there by now, so I invested time and effort trying to figure out how things worked there) are very family oriented, hard working and fundamentally conservative.
The local Republicans are kind of weird: a blend of near facist politics and rejection of any population who doesn't instantly vote their way without question. So that might have something to do with it.

Its been so long since I've seen a repub from Hawaii I wouldn't have any idea about their politics....seems like its more about whether you are Asian or not....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/23/race-often-influences-politics-in-hawaii/

[olevetonahill]

It's a workload issue. I get called every two years and so does my wife. Seems reasonable to me to spread the workload among people who are permanent residents. Again, maybe not for all classes of cases.

But it's not a litmus test for me regarding Jerry Brown. He's done an admirable job as Governor.

Ya ort not live in such a High Crime state. Ive lived my entire Adult life here in OK. and Have NEVER been called.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Ya ort not live in such a High Crime state. Ive lived my entire Adult life here in OK. and Have NEVER been called.

They don't allow pet alligators in the jury box.

[KantoSooner]

Its been so long since I've seen a repub from Hawaii I wouldn't have any idea about their politics....seems like its more about whether you are Asian or not....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/23/race-often-influences-politics-in-hawaii/

Kind of a chicken/egg thing that we've beaten to death before. Rep party is hostile to non-whites and then wonders why non-whites tend to vote against it. Non-whites tend to vote against the Rep party for ancient historical reasons and then wonder why the Reps are non-supportive. Fact remains that the basic life philosphy of a bunch of these folks is pretty receptive to a small gov/non-intrusive message. Unfortunately, no one is selling that to them.

[okie52]

Kind of a chicken/egg thing that we've beaten to death before. Rep party is hostile to non-whites and then wonders why non-whites tend to vote against it. Non-whites tend to vote against the Rep party for ancient historical reasons and then wonder why the Reps are non-supportive. Fact remains that the basic life philosphy of a bunch of these folks is pretty receptive to a small gov/non-intrusive message. Unfortunately, no one is selling that to them.

Hostile to Asians...how?

Asians in the US mainland tend to vote very liberal, also. They may have family based values but they those are secondary concerns in the way they vote...same with hispanics. Everything about Hawaii politics appears to be about race and progressive voting....

And as far as being hostile....Haole

[KantoSooner]

Hapa Haole, the best place on earth to be a bi-racial kid.

Okie, we've gone through this endlessly before, I don't intend to relitigate it. The Democrats may or may not push policies that actually help racial minorities, but they relentlessly go after that vote and bend over backwards to make non-whites feel involved and important. The Republicans on the other hand, may well have the better of most policy arguments (historically, I'd say, 'hand's down'; the present group, with their relentless focus on ante-diluvian social issues, not so much. But still.), but in statement and in policy they tend to treat non-whites with suspicion and want to see something akin to proof of loyalty.


when we start actively selling the Rep party to minorities, we'll get our share of their votes. That will likely take another generation or so, though. In the meantime, we Republicans will, as a group, sit around and wonder why 'those people' always vote for the other party.

[okie52]

Are the dems offering special privileges for the asian "majority"?

In what policy or statement do the pubs treat non whites with suspicion? So far as I can see it is the other way around and if you aren't asian it doesn't matter much what you say...even if you are a dem.

Its pretty clear that Hawaii is a bigoted state...from haole to its voting record...but they are a happy people.

[SoonerProphet]

I am governor jerry brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president¡*

Carter power will soon go away
I will be f¨¹hrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school

California über alles
über alles california

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face
Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay

California über alles
über alles california

Now it is 1984
Knock knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece

Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes here's a pretty flower¡*

Die on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will croak, you little clown
When you mess with president brown

California über alles
über alles california

[okie52]

Why Hawaii Is the Most Liberal State in the Country


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-degiacomo/why-hawaii-is-the-most-li_b_3937632.html


The party that turned "Self Deportation" from a liberal comedy skit into a policy platform and presidential primary litmus test has limited brand favorability ratings here. So much so that Republicans often hide their party affiliation to get elected. That last "Republican Wave" that swept the country never made it to Hawai`i's shores.

Ergo, in Hawaii liberals can be out and proud. So you liberals on the mainland need to look yourselves in the mirror and repeat after Senator Al Franken, "I am good enough. I am smart enough. And gosh darn it, people like me." Go ahead, you know you want to say it, "I am L.. L... LIBERAL!" There, now doesn't that feel much better! Aloha!

Actually a pretty funny article.

[KantoSooner]

Are the dems offering special privileges for the asian "majority"?

In what policy or statement do the pubs treat non whites with suspicion? So far as I can see it is the other way around and if you aren't asian it doesn't matter much what you say...even if you are a dem.

Its pretty clear that Hawaii is a bigoted state...from haole to its voting record...but they are a happy people.

<sigh> "But we aren't doing anything to put 'those people' off.' Just keep repeating that mantra as you sit in the increasingly geriatric country club bar wondering why the Republican party never wins a national race and concluding that those Democrats must be bribing their way into office. Can't find any evidence of it, of course, but, darn it! they just must be! It's the only way this could be happening. I mean, we tip well, why aren't we better loved and obeyed?

[olevetonahill]

Ya ort not live in such a High Crime state. Ive lived my entire Adult life here in OK. and Have NEVER been called.


They don't allow pet alligators in the jury box.

jaun, What the hell do a Pet Gator got to do with being on a jury?

[okie52]

<sigh> "But we aren't doing anything to put 'those people' off.' Just keep repeating that mantra as you sit in the increasingly geriatric country club bar wondering why the Republican party never wins a national race and concluding that those Democrats must be bribing their way into office. Can't find any evidence of it, of course, but, darn it! they just must be! It's the only way this could be happening. I mean, we tip well, why aren't we better loved and obeyed?

Just show the "evidence" of repub policies that punish or even alienate minorities....or could it be that many minorities are just more liberal than pubs. As far as prejudice goes, one only needs to look at politics in Hawaii or the policies in Mexico to understand the irony of your position.

The pablum is strong in you. Hawaii couldnt be racist or liberal in their politics....they are family oriented people...

Just how far are you willing to "bend over" to accomodate your liberal minorities? Highest tax rates in US? Open borders?

Winning doesn't mean a whole lot if you have to support bad policies...and groveling is certainly unappealing.

But hey...we won!!!!

[okie52]

Whatever happened to the poster 5-0?

Did he go the way of matlock or was he killed by angry Asians in Hawaii?

[olevetonahill]

Whatever happened to the poster 5-0?

Did he go the way of matlock or was he killed by angry Asians in Hawaii?

He dont venture in here No Mo.He do post in the Football and SO.

[KantoSooner]

Just show the "evidence" of repub policies that punish or even alienate minorities....or could it be that many minorities are just more liberal than pubs. !!



Okie, Take a breath - you're making my point for me and I'm pretty sure that was not your intent. As I mentioned above, it's not about policy. I'm pretty sure that when you add up the crude dollars and cents, pub policies would, certainly in anything longer than the immediate future, turn out better for everyone. News Flash: people don't vote balance sheets. Not even old, stingy Republicans.
It's an atmospheric thing. Republican rhetoric tends to demonize non-white voters. Why? I don't know. My hypothesis is that the pubs long ago sold out to a crudely defined 'redneck' vote and feels obligated to take ridiculous nativist positions rather than spending the time to explain more complex positions. So, you have dems who 'promise them anything but give them Chanel' and pubs who probably have better policies and refuse to sell them to anyone who doesn't already vote with them. With a strong aroma that such an explanation would somehow be beneath them.

Seriously, it was quite frustrating to listen to the pub debates two years ago. It was literally like watching a circular firing squad with all candidates save a couple rushing to 'prove themselves' by being all but outright white supremacists.

But, go right ahead and continue painting entire swaths of our population as somehow DNA-determined 'libs'. It'll play into your 'Winning doesn't mean a whole lot...' theme. We can play 'Taps', show a lonely warrior on the ramparts, wrapped in a tattered flag, with the sunset behind him and maybe show a stoic face with a single tear rolling down the cheek as we all ponder what might have been if that errant DNA had never been allowed within the pale.

Ye Gods! Would it be okay with you if we tried some salesmanship? If we actually tried to convince people rather than simiply throwing dirt clods? I know I"d prefer it.

[okie52]

Kanto, Kanto, Kanto....you've gone John McCain...you see the facts but just refuse to accept them.

Still waiting for the "somehow" demonizing non white voters evidence. If racism is apparent it would be moreso on the minority side...but hey, I'm just throwing dirt clods

Ridiculous nativist positions???...as in supporting legal immigration? Pretty anti immigrant in doing that. 750,000 immigrants granted citizenship each year...what other country in the world comes close to matching that?

History is a real bitch when it doesn't jive with your political beliefs...even worse when you ignore historical realities. Hawaii has been a dem state since it entered the union. Out of 28 state senators it has one repub. Besides the obvious requirement of being Asian to win you also have to be among the most progressive (the new code word for liberal). Obviously you didn't read the Washington Post or Huff Po articles I posted for your benefit and I wouldn't paint the WP or Huff Po as some right wing rags. But keep believing that Hawaii is a natural conservative voter base that only needs to have the right "love' shown to them by pubs. LOL

Hispanics haven't voted pub in over 40 years even when Reagan granted them amnesty in 86. They were so grateful to Reagan and the pubs that they gave Daddy Bush 30% of their vote in 1988. They have voted over 2-1 for dems in almost every election. But they don't really believe in big government.

Salesmanship? Sure, I'm all for that but what are you selling? You already believe that people ignore "voting their pocketbook" or "balance sheets" so what are you offering the minorities besides the "we love you" ? Amnesty?...AGAIN!!! Embracing progressive big government mantras...yeah that's a winner. Probably the best the pubs can do is run minority candidates that actually support conservative ideals (or better to my way of thinking offering pragmatic solutions). That won't swing one group to your side overnight but it may get them listening.

[KantoSooner]

Here's one example: try puttiing a program on the table that does a guest worker program, speeds up visa determinations, perhaps offers legal residency based on some set of criteria (and, yes, I could come up with some, but they're not important to this argument), moves the enforcement pressure onto employers AND tightens border security?


Instead of just saying all of you brown skinned folks get out then we talk. Maybe.

As to what I'm selling? The same thing Republicans have been selling since around 1850. Until the party was usurped by what I consider to be an attitude of inflexiblity combined with a foundational lack of understanding of what Republicanism and Conservatism is all about. We're the party of Lincoln. to put it succinctly. Not John Birch.

[okie52]

Here's one example: try puttiing a program on the table that does a guest worker program, speeds up visa determinations, perhaps offers legal residency based on some set of criteria (and, yes, I could come up with some, but they're not important to this argument), moves the enforcement pressure onto employers AND tightens border security?


Instead of just saying all of you brown skinned folks get out then we talk. Maybe.

As to what I'm selling? The same thing Republicans have been selling since around 1850. Until the party was usurped by what I consider to be an attitude of inflexiblity combined with a foundational lack of understanding of what Republicanism and Conservatism is all about. We're the party of Lincoln. to put it succinctly. Not John Birch.

Many repubs have supported guest worker programs...it was often the unions that opposed them (another code word for dems) because they feared it would undercut wages for their labor base. Citizenship has been the sticking point (along with border security)...not guest programs or speeding up visas (particularly highly educated or skilled H1Bs)or legal residency for most pubs....and the dems won't budge on the citizenship issue.

Brown skins get out? Oh, you mean the 11,000,000 illegals to get out that are here against US laws....those Brown skins? God forbid we offend those people or those that support illegal immigration.

Heh heh...so the pubs have gone john birch eh? Please explain what republicanism and conservatism are all about...

[KantoSooner]

So, that's why there's been the (fingers in ears) "Yayayayaya I can't hear you' approach from your buds on anything short of landmines on the border and sealed trains headed south?

You're being highly disingenuous if you really propose that the Rep party has been a welcoming place for any non-Wasp since about Reagan's first term.

As to what 'republican' and 'conservative' meant before the Goebbels-esque hijacking of the words, try reading Goldwater's 'Conscience of a Conservative'. It's an approach to government that attempts to balance personal liberty with the legitimate needs of the nation. Possibly the best non-academic exposition of that balance in the past century.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

NYC is pushing for illegals to be able to vote in city elections...Hell even Bloomberg opposes that but it may still become law given the overwhelming dem majority in that city.So, dem office-holders make more sense, sometimes, than just about all of their dem constituents?...Truly inspirational!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The local Republicans(Hawaii) are kind of weird: a blend of near facist politics and rejection of any population who doesn't instantly vote their way without question. Fascist politics, meaning excessive, and/or illegal control over the private sector?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Hostile to Asians...how?

Asians in the US mainland tend to vote very liberal, also. They may have family based values but they those are secondary concerns in the way they vote...same with hispanics. Everything about Hawaii politics appears to be about race and progressive voting....

And as far as being hostile....HaoleI know a Japanese guy here in PHX who's a small business owner(Restauranteur), and he's a knee-jerk Democrat. He's bought the anti-republican stereotype of republicans that the democrats espouse. I was quite surprised to discover that, since he is a small business owner.

[okie52]

So, that's why there's been the (fingers in ears) "Yayayayaya I can't hear you' approach from your buds on anything short of landmines on the border and sealed trains headed south?

You're being highly disingenuous if you really propose that the Rep party has been a welcoming place for any non-Wasp since about Reagan's first term.

As to what 'republican' and 'conservative' meant before the Goebbels-esque hijacking of the words, try reading Goldwater's 'Conscience of a Conservative'. It's an approach to government that attempts to balance personal liberty with the legitimate needs of the nation. Possibly the best non-academic exposition of that balance in the past century.

Well let's see if I've got your thinking down on the issues here:

Hawaii is a liberal state because of republicans. Asians vote liberal because of republicans. Liberal voting and big government are naturally against the Asian's culture as they are "family oriented" but republicans have forced them into being liberals. Asians only vote for Asians even in democratic primaries because the white man can't be trusted and probably is really a republican pretending to be a liberal.

Haole is a good thing....but pubs were hijacked by rednecks...

Republicans have been openly hostile to hispanics. Republicans supporting border security is an exhibition of hate against brown people. Republicans and Reagan granting amnesty to 3,000,000 illegals (in reagan's 2nd term) was a shallow, transparent effort just to gain votes. The Hispanics saw through that and voted 70% for Dukakis. Republicans denying 11,000,000 illegals amnesty is a shallow, transparent hatred of hispanics. Hispanics see this and vote over 2-1 for Obama even though they are "family oriented" and really don't believe in big government.


Border security=Nazi, John Birch...surprised Hitler hasn't slipped in there by now.
Immigration laws short of open borders=Nazi, John Birch.....
Asian prejudice=totally acceptable and understandable
Hispanic demands for amnesty=totally acceptable and understandable
repub hostility towards minorities=not exactly defineable but you know its there.
repubs=john birchers and Nazis

As to Goldwater:


Two proposals, not new to the debate even then, that Goldwater shot down might sound familiar. He stated: “The Carter administration has proposed granting amnesty to illegal aliens in this country who have established ‘equity.’ This might take the form of working, length of residence and the like. The Congress has viewed this plan with little enthusiasm and so have I. What amnesty would do in effect is reward people who knowingly break our laws. Beyond that, it would be inequitable and unfair to those who have applied for legal immigration and may often wait years for approval.”

The second so-called solution that drew Goldwater’s ire would have penalized an employer who knowingly hires illegal immigrants. He suggested that “these employer sanctions” are “discriminatory and could raise possible violations of civil rights of potential employees. It is the government, not the employer, who should bear the main responsibility of determining who is here legally and who is not.”

That said, Goldwater recommended expansion of a temporary-worker program: “I am the co-sponsor of legislation that would establish a temporary-worker program under which Mexican nationals could enter the United States. This type of program could be extended to other primary sending countries of illegal aliens. It addresses labor market needs for seasonal agricultural workers in a regulated fashion. American workers would be protected under my bill. Visas would be good for 180 days, not necessarily consecutive. This ‘Bracero’-type program would control the number of workers coming in, provide monitoring and channel the flow of illegal aliens through a legal mechanism.”



Read more: http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2009/12/20/immigration-debate-hasn%e2%80%99t-changed-in-30-years/#ixzz2hLrdS3UV



Practically a Nazi...John Bircher...can't believe you'd even reference someone that is so hostile to different ethnic groups.


He concluded with: “America’s capacity to absorb more and more people is not limitless. I understand and am sympathetic to the reasons why people wish to come to the United States. But the hard reality is that America cannot be a lifeboat to all who wish to come aboard.”

Barry...why do you hate brown people?

[okie52]

I know a Japanese guy here in PHX who's a small business owner(Restauranteur), and he's a knee-jerk Democrat. He's bought the anti-republican stereotype of republicans that the democrats espouse. I was quite surprised to discover that, since he is a small business owner.

He needs to study his history...It was FDR that sent all of the Japs to internment camps.

[okie52]

Fascist politics, meaning excessive, and/or illegal control over the private sector?

If you are not a progressive then you must be a fascist...only stands to reason.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If you are not a progressive then you must be a fascist...only stands to reason.Yeah, I don't know how we've let them get away with that false accusation for so long, either...except that they control the MSM.

[okie52]

Yeah, I don't know how we've let them get away with that false accusation for so long, either...except that they control the MSM.

The dems plan has worked to perfection...look what its done to Kanto!!!

[KantoSooner]

Fascist politics, meaning excessive, and/or illegal control over the private sector?

actually, yes. As should come as no shock, the hospitality/tourism/real estate biz in Hawaii is effing strong. Particularly since the only counter weights would be agriculture and government (including military). Frankly the h/t/re group is effectively supre-political. They give money to both parties and arguably control both sets of local pols. The Reps are simply more naked in their obedience while the Dems seem to care more about appearances and do actually try to throw some hush puppies to the crowd once in a while.
It is a highly corrupt, if highly friendly place. The most important 'elections' are to see who fills vacant seats on the King Kamehameha Trust (I believe) management board. Mere congress and senate seats are unimportant in comparison.

[KantoSooner]

Well, that's what happens when one stops in mid-draft to take a phone call.

Okie, I find it interesting that you persistently deem anything that is not 100% lockstep with you as 100% opposed. If you've followed my positions throughout the whole immigration/illegal discussion you'll find that I'm in favor of controlling immigration and only providing 'amnesty' for some portion of those here illegally....largely because it will likely be impossible to round everyone up wiithout excessive costs, both monetary and human. That I'm also in favor of improving border security, though I'm also not in favor of trying to make it perfect as that, too, would be impractical (like making a truljy 100% safe anything). And that I'm in favor of eVerify to cut off illegal work that encourages illegal aliens.
I'm also in favor of implementing this as and when we can. For instance, we can do improvement (and have) to border security now. Why wait for the perfect when we can do good now and get closer to perfect later? We can do eVerify now. We can freeze the situation now and figure out who/what/why on who stays and who goes in coming months.
Gee, Barry had different opinions about immgration than I do. What does that have to do with his general political philiosophy....the reason I cited him?
You seem awfully hung up on 'Haole'. I've worked with Flips, 'Damn Drunk Indians', 'Hahndlahs', Nips, Green Eyed Foreign Devils, Gwailohs (that'd be me), etc. My response to this, which apparently flew over your head, was to reference 'Hapa Haole' a term used by Hawaiians of all stripes to refer to half Asian or Hawaiian/half white kids. It is used with great love and such kids are treated, in Hawaii like princes and princesses. So much for the racist sting.

The original point having long since been submerged into the typical sludge, I'm going to go hate on Texas some more.

Y'all have a fine weekend. And say hi to Josef the next time you have your meeting.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If you are not a progressive then you must be a fascist...only stands to reason.Right. If one doesn't espouse Socialism, then the only thing left to espouse is Fascism.(heaven forbid some one being for a government that abides by its legally imposed limitations, and doesn't try to control or own the economic activities of its citizens.)

[okie52]

Well, that's what happens when one stops in mid-draft to take a phone call.

Okie, I find it interesting that you persistently deem anything that is not 100% lockstep with you as 100% opposed. If you've followed my positions throughout the whole immigration/illegal discussion you'll find that I'm in favor of controlling immigration and only providing 'amnesty' for some portion of those here illegally....largely because it will likely be impossible to round everyone up wiithout excessive costs, both monetary and human. That I'm also in favor of improving border security, though I'm also not in favor of trying to make it perfect as that, too, would be impractical (like making a truljy 100% safe anything). And that I'm in favor of eVerify to cut off illegal work that encourages illegal aliens.
I'm also in favor of implementing this as and when we can. For instance, we can do improvement (and have) to border security now. Why wait for the perfect when we can do good now and get closer to perfect later? We can do eVerify now. We can freeze the situation now and figure out who/what/why on who stays and who goes in coming months.
Gee, Barry had different opinions about immgration than I do. What does that have to do with his general political philiosophy....the reason I cited him?
You seem awfully hung up on 'Haole'. I've worked with Flips, 'Damn Drunk Indians', 'Hahndlahs', Nips, Green Eyed Foreign Devils, Gwailohs (that'd be me), etc. My response to this, which apparently flew over your head, was to reference 'Hapa Haole' a term used by Hawaiians of all stripes to refer to half Asian or Hawaiian/half white kids. It is used with great love and such kids are treated, in Hawaii like princes and princesses. So much for the racist sting.

The original point having long since been submerged into the typical sludge, I'm going to go hate on Texas some more.

Y'all have a fine weekend. And say hi to Josef the next time you have your meeting.

Spinning in circles it appears.

I didn't say anyone or you has to agree with my positions 100%...it is you on the other hand that labels pubs or anyone against illegal immigration as Nazis, Birchers, etc...the true irony of your arguments. Your reference to Goldwater as representing conservative ideals was fine until his stance on immigration was mentioned as being consistent with many pubs now fighting amnesty....which, of course, are those very pubs that are nazis, birchers, and a party that is trashing the poor hispanics.

I didn't say hapa haole...I said haole which you obviously want to avoid discussing and I can see why:


Kill Haole Day is an annual event that some people claim occurs in some of Hawaiʻi's schools. On the last day of school before summer vacation, non-white students are said to harass and sometimes attack white students

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Haole_Day


It doesn't matter how long you live here, or if you were even born here. If you are white, locals will still call you a “haole”, a derogatory term that is Hawaii's equivalent of using the "N-word". And the prejudice goes beyond name calling. White people are often treated with scorn. “Go back to where you came from”, seems to be the message. “You don't belong here.” Sometimes it results in violence.

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/bullying-in-hawaii-a-state-of-denial/123

But its done with love...because the Asians aren't racists and Hawaii is only liberal because of pubs.

So much for the racist thing....

Keep those blinders on Kanto and take an extra big dose of pablum for the OU/TX weekend.

[diverdog]

Spinning in circles it appears.

I didn't say anyone or you has to agree with my positions 100%...it is you on the other hand that labels pubs or anyone against illegal immigration as Nazis, Birchers, etc...the true irony of your arguments. Your reference to Goldwater as representing conservative ideals was fine until his stance on immigration was mentioned as being consistent with many pubs now fighting amnesty....which, of course, are those very pubs that are nazis, birchers, and a party that is trashing the poor hispanics.

I didn't say hapa haole...I said haole which you obviously want to avoid discussing and I can see why:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Haole_Day



http://www.hawaiireporter.com/bullying-in-hawaii-a-state-of-denial/123

But its done with love...because the Asians aren't racists and Hawaii is only liberal because of pubs.

So much for the racist thing....

Keep those blinders on Kanto and take an extra big dose of pablum for the OU/TX weekend.


The comment section in the second article is interesting.

[okie52]

The comment section in the second article is interesting.

Yeah....it's just their imagination. Dam lying nazis

[diverdog]

Yeah....it's just their imagination. Dam lying nazis

To be honest I know very little about Hawaii or Asian culture. I flew with a bunch of Hawaiians in the AF and they use to call me their Haole child. Being a dumb *** I wore it as a badge of honor. I think they liked me because I had an intense interest in their food/cooking. Hawaii is the only state I have not visited.

[okie52]

To be honest I know very little about Hawaii or Asian culture. I flew with a bunch of Hawaiians in the AF and they use to call me their Haole child. Being a dumb *** I wore it as a badge of honor. I think they liked me because I had an intense interest in their food/cooking. Hawaii is the only state I have not visited.

You have to be careful about who you call Hawaiians as that is reserved for those of Polynesian ancestry...being born there just isn't good enough. (sorry Obama).

49 states eh? That's pretty good. I've only been to about 25-30 although I look forward to hitting most of them...but Hawaii isn't one of them.

[KantoSooner]

Okie, 'Hapa' is 'half'. So, Hapa Haole is 'Half Haole'. It is also a word in the Hawaiian language. Note: West of California there are islands in an Ocean called the 'Pacific'. On the other side of that ocean is a vast continent called 'Asia'. South of that is another continent called 'Australia'. Within 'Asia', there are a multitude of peoples, they all speak languages other than English. None of them speak Hawaiian. None of them speak anything related to Hawaiian. None of those people are especially related to the Hawaiian people racially, ethnically or linguisticall.


Hawaii contains lots of Hawaiians. Many of them are still unhappy that their country was taken over in the late 19th century by a cabal of greedy missionaries (how else to label people who arrived to convert those who didn't wish to be converted, got a good bead on sugar cultivation and supplying whaling ships (Doles and Parkers, I'm looking at you) and then managed to take over vast agricultural tracts, pushing off the people who'd originally lived there), Boston trading interests and US Naval officers.

Here's a shocker: it also contains lots of ethnic Japanese, Chinese and Filipino's. It used to contain a significant number of Mexicans (and their descendents still are numerous on the Big Island - thus ukelele's).

To a pissed off Hawaiian, none of these folks belong and all need to 'go home'. Thankfully, the percentage of pissed off Hawaiians vs non-pissed off is relatively small. Courtesy is advised if you're stopping at a remote farm house to ask directions, but that's a good policy in rural Osage County as well.

So there is no monolithic 'Asian' bloc presenting against anglo's. And those who are hostile are small in number. Honolulu is a surprisingly urban city; it surprises me not at all that there are groups of idiots in the schools.

As to 'Haole' being a derogatory term, well, it's in the eyes of the beholder. 'Yankee' can be a pretty derogatory term, as well, and was meant that way in the beginning. So was 'Brit' or 'Pom'.

As to my equation of Reps to Nazi's, we've litigated this so often and with such refusal on your part to listen to or read what is written that it is worthless to continue with you. You're going to believe whatever you choose to and frankly it's not worth my time to try and coax you out of blind jingoism. Know this: I'm a life long registered Republican and don't need your seal of approval. Have a happy Beat Texas weekend.

[diverdog]

You have to be careful about who you call Hawaiians as that is reserved for those of Polynesian ancestry...being born there just isn't good enough. (sorry Obama).

49 states eh? That's pretty good. I've only been to about 25-30 although I look forward to hitting most of them...but Hawaii isn't one of them.

Oh these guys were the real deal...big *** polynesians every one of em.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Oh these guys were the real deal...big *** polynesians every one of em.

I thought the big ones were Some Owen...

[diverdog]

I thought the big ones were Some Owen...

You ever see UofH's mascot?

[okie52]

Okie, 'Hapa' is 'half'. So, Hapa Haole is 'Half Haole'. It is also a word in the Hawaiian language. Note: West of California there are islands in an Ocean called the 'Pacific'. On the other side of that ocean is a vast continent called 'Asia'. South of that is another continent called 'Australia'. Within 'Asia', there are a multitude of peoples, they all speak languages other than English. None of them speak Hawaiian. None of them speak anything related to Hawaiian. None of those people are especially related to the Hawaiian people racially, ethnically or linguisticall.


Hawaii contains lots of Hawaiians. Many of them are still unhappy that their country was taken over in the late 19th century by a cabal of greedy missionaries (how else to label people who arrived to convert those who didn't wish to be converted, got a good bead on sugar cultivation and supplying whaling ships (Doles and Parkers, I'm looking at you) and then managed to take over vast agricultural tracts, pushing off the people who'd originally lived there), Boston trading interests and US Naval officers.

Here's a shocker: it also contains lots of ethnic Japanese, Chinese and Filipino's. It used to contain a significant number of Mexicans (and their descendents still are numerous on the Big Island - thus ukelele's).

To a pissed off Hawaiian, none of these folks belong and all need to 'go home'. Thankfully, the percentage of pissed off Hawaiians vs non-pissed off is relatively small. Courtesy is advised if you're stopping at a remote farm house to ask directions, but that's a good policy in rural Osage County as well.

So there is no monolithic 'Asian' bloc presenting against anglo's. And those who are hostile are small in number. Honolulu is a surprisingly urban city; it surprises me not at all that there are groups of idiots in the schools.

As to 'Haole' being a derogatory term, well, it's in the eyes of the beholder. 'Yankee' can be a pretty derogatory term, as well, and was meant that way in the beginning. So was 'Brit' or 'Pom'.

As to my equation of Reps to Nazi's, we've litigated this so often and with such refusal on your part to listen to or read what is written that it is worthless to continue with you. You're going to believe whatever you choose to and frankly it's not worth my time to try and coax you out of blind jingoism. Know this: I'm a life long registered Republican and don't need your seal of approval. Have a happy Beat Texas weekend.

Jingoism eh...this from the perpetual Hawaiian, Asian, and Mexican apologist. Haole is a good thing.

Hell Kanto, I've given you the facts and now I'm just trying to help you connect the dots...something that seems to give you great difficulty.

The most liberal state in the union and you believe they are naturally conservative...that it is the Hawaiian repubs that are weird not the Asian plurality that votes consistently for extreme liberal policies and only for Asian candidates. Yeah, your insight is like a laser.

Blind? ...heh heh...But hang onto that notion that Mexicans, Asians and Hawaii are natural conservatives in spite of all the historical evidence to Contrary(after all, they're family oriented). John McCain agrees with you.

So far I'm enjoying the OU/TX weekend at the Sheraton in downtown Dallas. Hopefully it won't rain during the game.

Boomer Sooner!!!!!

[diverdog]

Do you think Hawaii is more liberal than Vermont?

[okie52]

Close call...news articles seem to favor Hawaii ....personally I'd go with Vermont because it elected a self declared socialist. Sadly we have a president that campaigned for the socialist.

[diverdog]

Close call...news articles seem to favor Hawaii ....personally I'd go with Vermont because it elected a self declared socialist. Sadly we have a president that campaigned for the socialist.

Ehh, Bernie is harmless. :)

How are you liking your Traeger? I did BBQ for 165 people last weekend. Cooked 8 pork butts, 165 chicken quarters and an 80 pound pig. Bought one of those Cuban pig roasters called La Caja China. Luv it. Getting ready to do another pig today. Have to pick up porky in an hour.

Texas has me worried. I hope we are not over confident.

[okie52]

Ehh, Bernie is harmless. :)

How are you liking your Traeger? I did BBQ for 165 people last weekend. Cooked 8 pork butts, 165 chicken quarters and an 80 pound pig. Bought one of those Cuban pig roasters called La Caja China. Luv it. Getting ready to do another pig today. Have to pick up porky in an hour.

Texas has me worried. I hope we are not over confident.


That's a lot of BBQ. Far more than I've ever done.

I love my traeger. Pretty much set it and forget it unless my pellet hopper goes dry. There are some other brands that I should have looked at though...rec tec and mak1...but traeger was hands down the most popular in this area and I was concerned about customer service.

I don't know anything about the pig roasters....got any pics?

Tx game always has me worried even though on paper we look like a solid favorite. You just never know what's going to happen.

[diverdog]

That's a lot of BBQ. Far more than I've ever done.

I love my traeger. Pretty much set it and forget it unless my pellet hopper goes dry. There are some other brands that I should have looked at though...rec tec and mak1...but traeger was hands down the most popular in this area and I was concerned about customer service.

I don't know anything about the pig roasters....got any pics?

Tx game always has me worried even though on paper we look like a solid favorite. You just never know what's going to happen.

I have BBQ for crowds of 1500 people when my friend had the really big pull behind traeger. Last weekend I used mine and a borrowed one. I stayed up all night cooking.

if I had to do it again I would go with a Yoder.

Here is a link to the pig roaster: http://www.lacajachina.com

[okie52]

I have BBQ for crowds of 1500 people when my friend had the really big pull behind traeger. Last weekend I used mine and a borrowed one. I stayed up all night cooking.

if I had to do it again I would go with a Yoder.

Here is a link to the pig roaster: http://www.lacajachina.com


Cool diver....been along time since I've eaten off the whole pig...