the gov isn't REALLY shut down...but..

[Soonerjeepman]

brother sent this to me....


don't let the biased media tell ya that....

we didn't have any money yesterday - $15 trillion in debt.

Still don't have money today - still $15 trillion in debt.

So the govt is shut down.

All shut down . . . . except for essential services like air traffic controllers, transportation security administration, post office, IRS processing tax receipts (but NOT refunds???), congress, president, 365 white house staffers (wow), anyone impacting public health or safety, federal air marshals, people caring for research animals at the National Institute of Health, federal courts including the Supreme Court, Department of Veteran's Affairs, Amtrak, ALL District of Columbia "city employees" (which are actually federal employees), Patent & Trademark Office, Federal Highway Administration, even a Census Bureau statistician working on a project in Bangladesh (really?), National Weather Service meteorologists, ocean and atmospheric scientists, Consumer Product Safety Commission,and many, many others, not to mention the military.

60% of non-military (plus all military) personnel will still be working and getting paid even though we don't have any money to pay them.

Alas, the two NASA astronauts aboard the international space station do have to keep working (and getting paid).

I wish the media could see how crazy this is. The govt is not shut down.

Does anyone really care that some obscure bloated agency or group of inspectors is going to be on hiatus a few days or that the Gateway National Recreation Area in Sandy Hook, N.J., has furloughed its poison ivy-eating goats?

Apparently not the stock market -- which closed UP today.

[rock on sooner]

Just a very minor point....the Post Office will continue to operate
no matter what. It does not depend on tax payers for $$$, it is
self funding, losing money hand over fist...thanks to Congress and
the pre paid pension funding idea. (No, I'm not a Postal worker,
although I turned down a job offer four and a half years ago).

[badger]

I am of course concerned about a family member who is a "non-essential" government employee during this "shutdown."

I don't blame either side. I blame both. We elected you bozos to lead. Lead, dammit.

[KantoSooner]

We, the great *** of the public, the American People are getting exactly what we voted into office: inflexible, immature ideologues lacking in all perspective. While it would be nice to once again have adults elected to office, I'm not holding my breath.

[SoonerorLater]

The real economy needs to get off the government iv drip. Now is as good as any time to start.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Did they find the travel money for the air force - navy football game?

[olevetonahill]

Did they find the travel money for the air force - navy football game?

All Military Operations are fully funded.

[Soonerjeepman]

another...his background is financial, president of a 10 mill dollar company as his last gig.

below
Let's see. About 100 million people are invested in "Wall Street" through stocks, bonds, mutual funds, 401k's, pensions, etc.

1 person holds the office of President.

Wall Street is not reacting in panic to the govt shutdown.

100 million people say they are calm by their actions. 1 person says they are wrong by his words.

"Asked about Wall Street’s relatively calm reaction to the crisis in the nation’s capital, Obama said it was out of step with the reality of the situation."

Who should we believe?

[soonercruiser]

All Military Operations are fully funded.

Yes they are Vet!
But, it seems like the administration has mandated many furloughs of civil service employees at military bases just for spite! What the H is wrong with Hagel???
And, it is odd that with no WH tours, and the govt shut down, that Obamcare can even be doing business. Hmmmmm....
I guess they are shifting money around somewhere.
Or. the gobment is just "shifty", period!

[soonercruiser]

Did they find the travel money for the air force - navy football game?

This IS some shi* that we can do without!

[8timechamps]

Close to 800,000 government employees were furloughed when this started. That's a lot of folks that have no idea when their next paycheck is coming. It's been a long, long time since I lived paycheck to paycheck, but when I did, it sucked and if someone told me they weren't sure when they would be able to pay me again, I'd be a little concerned.

And while I joke about the National Parks being closed, there are many communities across the country that depend those tourist dollars to stay afloat.

Lastly, I heard from the congresswoman from DC today, and she said the only way DC remains operational is if their budget is carved our and sent through on it's own resolution. Otherwise, the employees and services of DC will cease to work in 10 days.

This 'shut down' is really no skin off of my neck, but there are a lot of folks that are in a crisis right now. And because of what? The Pubs picked the wrong time to do this.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The real economy needs to get off the government iv drip. Now is as good as any time to start.It WILL happen. It has to. Economic activity is way down, by design, and one of the many failures will start some sort of unpleasant chain reaction.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Close to 800,000 government employees were furloughed when this started. That's a lot of folks that have no idea when their next paycheck is coming. It's been a long, long time since I lived paycheck to paycheck, but when I did, it sucked and if someone told me they weren't sure when they would be able to pay me again, I'd be a little concerned.

And while I joke about the National Parks being closed, there are many communities across the country that depend those tourist dollars to stay afloat.

Lastly, I heard from the congresswoman from DC today, and she said the only way DC remains operational is if their budget is carved our and sent through on it's own resolution. Otherwise, the employees and services of DC will cease to work in 10 days.

You know that back pay is accumulating, and when this "catastrophe" ends, the past due wages will be paid?

[Breadburner]

Yup...They on paid vacation......

[jkjsooner]

You know that back pay is accumulating, and when this "catastrophe" ends, the past due wages will be paid?

Kind of makes the idea of a shut down even more absurd then doesn't it?

[KantoSooner]

The back pay is not guaranteed, from what I hear. It was paid last time, but it is not a sure thing.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Time to find out what we really need and what is not needed. We can live with a whole lot less gubment than what we have. Thank God! for the budget impasse and this slimdown...

[KantoSooner]

And that's exactly what is not happening. This 'shutdown' is temporary and will lead to no changes, either long or short term. That's what is so frustrating about this whole mess: it's a triumph of tactics over strategy. The Republican hardliners have shown they can bring the legislative process to a halt. Whoopee. Other than that they have achieved nothing....and burned any chance that existed to gaining a workable majority in favor of long term fixes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We are in decline. When we elect a marxist, then actually reelect him and his goons, then we're saying NO to the constitution. With the MSM, public schools, and entertainment industry all in their camp, it shouldn't surprise. Dismay, yes, but not be shocked that it came about.

[badger]

Wall Street panic is setting in. Down 125 on Dow average in first hour of trading today. Is it below 15K yet/still?

[FaninAma]

Wall Street panic is setting in. Down 125 on Dow average in first hour of trading today. Is it below 15K yet/still?

It's pretty telling when every facet of our economy is totally dependent on what happens with government spending. There is no free market. Take away the $85 billion a month the fed is spending to float the debt and see what happens.

The bottom line is the government has totally taken over every aspect of our economy. Both parties are complicit and both parties need to share the blame when the system crashes.

[KantoSooner]

"There is no free market"
Really?
Here's how the Heritage Foundation ranks world economies in terms of freedom. We come in tenth. Ahead of every other major economy on earth.
Top 10 Countries
rank country overall change
1 Hong Kong 89.3 -0.6
2 Singapore 88.0 0.5
3 Australia 82.6 -0.5
4 New Zealand 81.4 -0.7
5 Switzerland 81.0 -0.1
6 Canada 79.4 -0.5
7 Chile 79.0 0.7
8 Mauritius 76.9 -0.1
9 Denmark 76.1 -0.1
10 United States 76.0 -0.3

[8timechamps]

You know that back pay is accumulating, and when this "catastrophe" ends, the past due wages will be paid?

I did not know that. That does bring down the 'crisis' level a bit.

[8timechamps]

Wall Street panic is setting in. Down 125 on Dow average in first hour of trading today. Is it below 15K yet/still?

Wall Street reacted to this shutdown last week, then carried on. The current decline is in anticipation of the upcoming Debt Ceiling issue.

While the government shutdown isn't really that big of an issue, not voting to increase the debt ceiling would be a real issue.

[badger]

Wall Street reacted to this shutdown last week, then carried on. The current decline is in anticipation of the upcoming Debt Ceiling issue.

While the government shutdown isn't really that big of an issue, not voting to increase the debt ceiling would be a real issue.

Investors are anticipating panic and want to beat the rush to divest. is it from the bill pay issue in a few weeks, or the shutdown now? it's probably both

[8timechamps]

Investors are anticipating panic and want to beat the rush to divest. is it from the bill pay issue in a few weeks, or the shutdown now? it's probably both

Think of it this way, the market always tries to look ahead, and determine what will happen. For instance, last week, when the shutdown was just talk, the market reacted and the averages dropped. Then, on Wednesday, when the shutdown was a reality, the markets picked back up and moved upward. So, it's basically already dealt with the shutdown.

The Debt Ceiling vote is what is driving the market now. It looks like the market is reacting to the vote not passing, and there being an economic shutdown. As it draws a little closer to the vote, the market will make a definitive move one way or the other. If the vote doesn't pass, the market is definitely going to sink.

[badger]

Money making idea: Sell now, buy as soon as your phone beeps the breaking news that a deal in imminent.

Sound about right? Or should I just continue investing in vCash here :D

[FaninAma]

"There is no free market"
Really?
Here's how the Heritage Foundation ranks world economies in terms of freedom. We come in tenth. Ahead of every other major economy on earth.
Top 10 Countries
rank country overall change
1 Hong Kong 89.3 -0.6
2 Singapore 88.0 0.5
3 Australia 82.6 -0.5
4 New Zealand 81.4 -0.7
5 Switzerland 81.0 -0.1
6 Canada 79.4 -0.5
7 Chile 79.0 0.7
8 Mauritius 76.9 -0.1
9 Denmark 76.1 -0.1
10 United States 76.0 -0.3

Answer the question then. What would happen to our markets and economy if the Fed stopped buying US treasuries and mortgage backed securities? What would happen to the markets if the central banks around the world quit printing money and directly purchasing futures in commodities, currency, and equity markets? What would happen if the interest rate on the 10 year US treasury bond were allowed to float on the open market without manipulation by the Fed and other central banks?

[KantoSooner]

Well, to minuet with your straw man, the answer is: badness would happen. More appropriately: how bad would the badness be? How long would it last? What sort of financial markets and real economies would emerge?

Ignoring for a moment that neither one of us has the vaguest means available to answer those questions with any degree of cogency, my guess is that a slower moving, slower growing and ultimately more healthy world economy would emerge.

None of which has anything to do with your original position, which was that the US has no freedom in its economy.

We undoubtedly have crises ahead. Some bigger, some smaller; some sooner, some later. The sky is not falling. Unless of course, you're a UT football fan.

[8timechamps]

Money making idea: Sell now, buy as soon as your phone beeps the breaking news that a deal in imminent.

Sound about right? Or should I just continue investing in vCash here :D

If you knew the right companies, that's the idea.

[FaninAma]

Well, to minuet with your straw man, the answer is: badness would happen. More appropriately: how bad would the badness be? How long would it last? What sort of financial markets and real economies would emerge?

Ignoring for a moment that neither one of us has the vaguest means available to answer those questions with any degree of cogency, my guess is that a slower moving, slower growing and ultimately more healthy world economy would emerge.

None of which has anything to do with your original position, which was that the US has no freedom in its economy.

We undoubtedly have crises ahead. Some bigger, some smaller; some sooner, some later. The sky is not falling. Unless of course, you're a UT football fan.
But, but, but we have a free market.....don't we? Are you saying it's free except for the massive manipulation by governments, the central banks and the government favored big corporations?

The world economies will never survive at this point without continued massive infusions of printed fiat currency. Never. The ponzi scheme of financing old debt by creating new debt will have an endpoint. Right now our national debt service costs would be $900 BILLION a year if interest rates on treasuries increased to 5 % or above. Please tell me with a straight face that you think that is sustainable.

[Soonerfan88]

Just to clear up the misinformation - no, back pay is not collecting as we speak. I am one of those on furlough and we have been told to not expect payment and to file for unemployment until Congress gets it act together.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Just to clear up the misinformation - no, back pay is not collecting as we speak. I am one of those on furlough and we have been told to not expect payment and to file for unemployment until Congress gets it act together.What do you think will REALLY happen afterwards? a) if you file for unemployment and b)if you don't

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Just to clear up the misinformation - no, back pay is not collecting as we speak. I am one of those on furlough and we have been told to not expect payment and to file for unemployment until Congress gets it act together.
Not now, but every budget deal after a shutdown has always included back pay for workers. Too many unions jerks in the government for Congress not to silence and pay off. I would be surprised if not the case again.

[pphilfran]

Just a very minor point....the Post Office will continue to operate
no matter what. It does not depend on tax payers for $$$, it is
self funding, losing money hand over fist...thanks to Congress and
the pre paid pension funding idea. (No, I'm not a Postal worker,
although I turned down a job offer four and a half years ago).

They haven't pre funded the pensions for at least two years....if they had prefunded they would be an additional 10 billion in the red...

[pphilfran]

The back pay is not guaranteed, from what I hear. It was paid last time, but it is not a sure thing.

I think there is a vote today on back pay

[pphilfran]

Wall Street panic is setting in. Down 125 on Dow average in first hour of trading today. Is it below 15K yet/still?

A 125 point loss is not panic

[KantoSooner]

But, but, but we have a free market.....don't we? Are you saying it's free except for the massive manipulation by governments, the central banks and the government favored big corporations?

The world economies will never survive at this point without continued massive infusions of printed fiat currency. Never. The ponzi scheme of financing old debt by creating new debt will have an endpoint. Right now our national debt service costs would be $900 BILLION a year if interest rates on treasuries increased to 5 % or above. Please tell me with a straight face that you think that is sustainable.

Go to your office window. Look out. Notice all those people, running around, doing things? Now, imagine them if the 'fiat currency' (what's that, 'Lira'?) went away. Everyone frozen into statues? Everybody walking in circles, going 'wa, wa, wa'? Hell, even zombies have more purpose to life than that. Dislocation, yes, for a time, then pretty much badk to normal.

And, regarding our 'sustainable debt', here's a little truth: when it gets unsustainable, it won't be sustained. If need be, we default upon it. And what happens? Dislocation, then we get over it. Might be pretty bad, but human life does not exit stage left.

We have a reasonably free economy and one of the freest on earth. It's not perfect. Nothing is. You're over 21, you should know this by now. We need to roll back debt, the issue is how. The left doesn't get to cut military as much as they'd like, the right doesn't get to dump tax rates as much as they'd like. You work through it. And you do it with an eye to preserving the union rather than demanding submission from those who disagree with you. It's a technique that's worked very well for us since the founding our republic.

[FaninAma]

Go to your office window. Look out. Notice all those people, running around, doing things? Now, imagine them if the 'fiat currency' (what's that, 'Lira'?) went away. Everyone frozen into statues? Everybody walking in circles, going 'wa, wa, wa'? Hell, even zombies have more purpose to life than that. Dislocation, yes, for a time, then pretty much badk to normal.

And, regarding our 'sustainable debt', here's a little truth: when it gets unsustainable, it won't be sustained. If need be, we default upon it. And what happens? Dislocation, then we get over it. Might be pretty bad, but human life does not exit stage left.

We have a reasonably free economy and one of the freest on earth. It's not perfect. Nothing is. You're over 21, you should know this by now. We need to roll back debt, the issue is how. The left doesn't get to cut military as much as they'd like, the right doesn't get to dump tax rates as much as they'd like. You work through it. And you do it with an eye to preserving the union rather than demanding submission from those who disagree with you. It's a technique that's worked very well for us since the founding our republic.

The problem is that a bad system was foisted upon the republic by a group of elitist politicians in a recess Congressional session. It was doomed to failure form the start. It was based on the propagation of debt and no underpinning to the currency. Everybody who runs up a lot of debt looks prosperous for a while until the bills come due. There is a reason a central bank had been denied in this country by the Founding Fathers and the early attempts to create one extinguished by Andrew Jackson.

Being a part of a Republic doesn't preclude expression of one's opinion or participating in the political process in accordance with the rules and guidelines established. What the GOP led HoR is doing is well within the established rules and in accordance to the authority given to that body. Just because you don't agree with what they are doing doesn't mean it is unlawful or unethical.

History will judge the actions of the Republicans and the Tea Party. And as you well know history often shows that the popular decision at the time was not the correct decision.

[KantoSooner]

I tend to agree with you on that last post with a key exception: the bad system was not foiisted upon us a recess session. It's something that been building for the past 70 years or so, under both parties for many very good reasons. The root problem is that things never get 'ended' by a government/bureaucracy/large entity of any type.
We still have laws on the books that cover horse theft as though it were a raging public safety issue. Likewise the Mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, etc. It is not sexy for any elected official to wage jihad upon this type of stuff, so it never gets taken down.
It was undoubtedly a good idea to do 'things' to ease the transition of rural America into the modern world. Electification, land banking, commodity price subsidies, farm to market road construction, ethanol subsidies, river dredging for example. But we never stop! We just add new stuff on top of the old stuff and government grows.
So, an intrepid band of true believers are not going to resolve squat because they are attempting to take out with an ice pick what is going to require a bulldozer.
And here's the catch: without the tedious work of establishing a broadbase of support across party lines, you never get there. All you 'achieve' is either forcing the government to lurch from crisis to crisis as we are doing now, courtesy of the TPs. Or you get an ill thought through law pounded through on party lines without any meaningful discussion that has seemingly nothing to do with half the problem. I refer of course to the ACA/Obamacare and its silence on the issue of cost control.
The American people are being treated like children. They are being hyped up by fringe politicians on either wing who at best are so brutally shallow that they don't understand the issues or the potential solutions. And those politicians are then using their dupes to support their own political ambitions.
And it is the right of those of us in the center to call BS on that as well as it's anyone else's right to speak.

[FaninAma]

I tend to agree with you on that last post with a key exception: the bad system was not foiisted upon us a recess session. It's something that been building for the past 70 years or so, under both parties for many very good reasons. The root problem is that things never get 'ended' by a government/bureaucracy/large entity of any type.
We still have laws on the books that cover horse theft as though it were a raging public safety issue. Likewise the Mohair subsidy, the national helium reserve, etc. It is not sexy for any elected official to wage jihad upon this type of stuff, so it never gets taken down.
It was undoubtedly a good idea to do 'things' to ease the transition of rural America into the modern world. Electification, land banking, commodity price subsidies, farm to market road construction, ethanol subsidies, river dredging for example. But we never stop! We just add new stuff on top of the old stuff and government grows.
So, an intrepid band of true believers are not going to resolve squat because they are attempting to take out with an ice pick what is going to require a bulldozer.
And here's the catch: without the tedious work of establishing a broadbase of support across party lines, you never get there. All you 'achieve' is either forcing the government to lurch from crisis to crisis as we are doing now, courtesy of the TPs. Or you get an ill thought through law pounded through on party lines without any meaningful discussion that has seemingly nothing to do with half the problem. I refer of course to the ACA/Obamacare and its silence on the issue of cost control.
The American people are being treated like children. They are being hyped up by fringe politicians on either wing who at best are so brutally shallow that they don't understand the issues or the potential solutions. And those politicians are then using their dupes to support their own political ambitions.
And it is the right of those of us in the center to call BS on that as well as it's anyone else's right to speak.

The Tea Party and GOP may fail miserably but at least they are taking a stand. I have watched Washington DC play the same games for 35 years now maintaining the status quo of growing the federal beaurocracy, growing entitlement programs, and growing corporate welfare while the middle class shrinks and sees their median income fall. All the while the two party system has been satisfied to play the game and stick their own pork-barrel pet projects into legislation or reward favored supporters(both entitlement leeches or corporate leeches) with legislation or executive actions like Obama has done with ObamaCare and green energy projects.

The government is too large and it has become like Frankenstein's monster.....too big and too stupid to do what is right but too powerful to be controlled by our weak elected officials. Even people like Senator Coburn who start out with noble intentions are soon overwhelmed by the immensity of the program and either resign or fall in line and do what they are told to do by the party hierarchy.

It is refreshing to see someone take on the establishment and suffer the slings and arrows of their venom. People like Harry Reid, Peter King, Grover Nordquist and all the other establishment politicians and their sycophants are a waste of energy and effort. The Founding Fathers never intended for blood suckers like this to make a life-long career of living in luxury off of hard working taxpayers.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Apparently...They gots to gets paid!!!!


Congress can agree on that. Enjoy your vaca....

[Soonerfan88]

I wish they would get their act together and end the shutdown this weekend but realistically don't expect it to be over until after the debt ceiling argument. If this passes both chambers, I'll probably just ride it out for this month then re-evaluate in November if necessary. Otherwise, I will be filing my first weekly unemployment claim on Monday.

Also, the bill is very short and straightforward - extremely unusual in DC. It only states federal employees will get back pay after everything is up and running again. What happens if the bill sits in committees or fails now but later passes and we have taken unemployment? Do we pay back the unemployment or not get paid for the weeks we claimed? Apparently, in 1996 some folks got to keep both unemployment and back pay.

Until then, my football buddy has backed out of all trips until we get paid again. So I have an extra ticket to TCU if anyone wants it. Already sold the OU/TX ticket but do have an extra seat at the OU Club of Dallas Beat Texas party and bus to/from the game at the Hilton Lincoln Centre also.

[olevetonahill]

I wish they would get their act together and end the shutdown this weekend but realistically don't expect it to be over until after the debt ceiling argument. If this passes both chambers, I'll probably just ride it out for this month then re-evaluate in November if necessary. Otherwise, I will be filing my first weekly unemployment claim on Monday.

Also, the bill is very short and straightforward - extremely unusual in DC. It only states federal employees will get back pay after everything is up and running again. What happens if the bill sits in committees or fails now but later passes and we have taken unemployment? Do we pay back the unemployment or not get paid for the weeks we claimed? Apparently, in 1996 some folks got to keep both unemployment and back pay.

Until then, my football buddy has backed out of all trips until we get paid again. So I have an extra ticket to TCU if anyone wants it. Already sold the OU/TX ticket but do have an extra seat at the OU Club of Dallas Beat Texas party and bus to/from the game at the Hilton Lincoln Centre also.

So letme understand this. You aint gonna be werking, so you draw unemployment, Then when they get this crap sorted, You will be paid Back pay for work you dint do and drew Unemployment on, And you think you should get Both the UP AND the back pay?

Thats a Double Paid ****in vacation from what I see.

[Soonerfan88]

No, I don't think I should get both but the lady at Mo. Labor Dept told me she was also working during the last shutdown in 1996. She said back then, those who drew unemployment got their back pay but didn't have to repay the drawn unemployment. I just hope they pass the bill this weekend and end the shutdown before November or at least address it in the bill so we can make an informed decision on whether to file.

[soonercruiser]

Dow Jones was up at least 2 days of the 4 day shutdown!
Hmmm.....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

"We're running out of paper to print money on."

[Soonerjeepman]

oh, meant to post this last week...

I teach in an urban area, projects, vacant lots, abandoned houses....well HUD (yes the gov Housing and Urban Development group) bought to old house across from the projects, tore them down, rebuilt brand new ones, before they were done windows had already been broken...

anyways, last week after the big bad gov shutdown, they SODDED the yards and every morning came and set the sprinklers out...even though SOMEONE WAS LIVING THERE...wish my yard could be sodded.

Also nice how obama is closing everything up even though #1 it's free...#2 does not use federal employees #3 the states that run them DON'T want them shut down....nothing but creating fear...

[soonercruiser]

So letme understand this. You aint gonna be werking, so you draw unemployment, Then when they get this crap sorted, You will be paid Back pay for work you dint do and drew Unemployment on, And you think you should get Both the UP AND the back pay?

Thats a Double Paid ****in vacation from what I see.

Kinda like Congress' brand of welfare!