Rank the "big 5" conferences

[Mac94]

With most of OOC play now out of the way we head to conference play and the race to the final BCS title game. Conference perception is always huge here for the top teams of each league so let's look at things after 1 month of on the field play. Here's how I would rank the top 5 based on a win/loss record against other "big 5" schools and Notre Dame. The numbers by each conference are: (wins against other "big 5" conference teams)-(losses to other "big 5" conference teams)(losses to teams outside the "big 5")

#1: Pac-12 6-3(1) ... (3 games left as Arizona St., USC, and Stanford will all play Notre Dame)
#2: SEC 6-4(3) ... (3 games left: Fla vs FSU, Georgia vs Geo Tech, Clemson vs S. Carolina)
#3: ACC 3-6(2) ... (4 games left: Pitt vs ND, and the three SEC vs ACC matchups listed above)
#4: Big-10 6-6(5)
#5: Big-12 2-4(4)

So far, in my opinion, it seems like the Pac-12 has the strongest case of being the strongest conference this season, which should help the winner of the Oregon/Stanford game assuming they take care of business the rest of the way. And in the case of a one loss debate, the Pac-12 team should be given the benifit of the doubt. As for the ACC/SEC ... alot is still up for debate between the two. The ACC could move up withn a strong showing in the games remaining.

What say you? Setting aside personal bias, how would you ranked the conferences right now?

[badger]

The ACC is pretty overrated other than Clemp and FSU. If you hated the Big 12, you could try to say the same thing about us other than OU and maybe Baylor... but we're not rated high enough to be overrated anymore :)

The Big Ten has been highly unimpressive. Why did Michigan need the entire game to beat Notre Dame at home, while we spent the closing minutes taking knees at South Bend?

You simply cannot look at conference-to-conference matchups to determine who is better, or we'd all be scheduling Kentucky and Tennessee to show our superiority over the SEC. Monkey. Balls. They suck those.

I really want no part of the top Pac 12 teams and no smartie fan would want Oregon or Stanford going up against their team, either. It isn't just the biased Pac refs, but the fact that they have stolen the SEC speed and used it to put up a ton of points. Hey, it's not like the SEC was using it to light up the scoreboards. Duurrrrr, high powered defenses strong running attack, durrrrrrr. Use it or lose it, SEC.

I don't care if you rank us or Big Ten last. Overall, we've earned it. Just don't blame entire conferences when their bottom tiers lose their annual matchups with other conference's powerhouses.

[Mac94]

I'm just trying to come up with something that shows some objective measure of conference performance and depth. In part because I know how the media portrays the SEC as the big bad 800 lb gorilla ... and it has been a very very good conference ... but watching games this season my eyeballs tell me this years SEC isn't "all that" this year. So ... I was just comparing numbers ... looking at games agaisnt each other to see how the conferences have done. While you are correct that there will be powerhouses vs bottom dwellers ... that works both ways. So while the Pac-12 gets a win for Oregon trashing Virginia, it takes a loss for Ohio St beating a down Cal team. Conferences here get no boost beating FCS or Sun Belt teams ... but do have those losses counted against them. It's just a way I was looking at all of this.

[jkjsooner]

The Big Ten has been highly unimpressive. Why did Michigan need the entire game to beat Notre Dame at home, while we spent the closing minutes taking knees at South Bend?


I think that's a little unfair to the Big 10. It's still early but we could be the premiere team in the Big 12. Michigan might be a pretty good team but there's still a pretty good gap between them and Ohio State and probably even Wisconsin.

[badger]

I'm just trying to come up with something that shows some objective measure of conference performance and depth.

Uh huh. And no matter what objectivity you use, Big 12 will always be last in total attendance, total wins, teams appearing in bowls, teams winning against other conference teams and other such "objective" categories because the other conferences have 12-14 teams, while the Big 12 has 10.

I get that you're chanting S-E-C now because S-E-C! S-E-C! ...But being in the sh!tty Big East never kept "The U" out of the national title discussion... and so long as OU is undefeated, being in whatever you want to call the Big 12 won't keep us out, either.

[Mac94]

Actually I'm not chanting S-E-C S-E-C ... I'm saying that the Pac-12 is the best and the ACC may move ahead of the SEC depending on the November matchups between schools in the conferences. And number of teams is not as relevent win it comes to looking at wins and losses as a win percentage. Although the Big-12 overall having few meaningful games hurts. It's hard to know what to do with Baylor as they've played a schedule about as tough as wet TP ... although they've at least done what a team facing those kind of teams should do.

As for OU, at least as it applies to this year ... if the Bama/LSU winner ... Oregon/Stanford winner ... and Clemson or FLorida St end up undefeated along with OU ... watch and see who gets left out. It's a flaw of the system ... but conferences do matter. It will also apply in the playoff format but not as much as the current system.

As for the "U" ... the Big East of that time included Pitt, W. Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Syracuse when they were respectable and Miami when out of their way to play a good OOC including powerhouse of the day Florida St. And there is a reason they went to the ACC when they could. Conferences matter.

[badger]

Yes, I know you are more reasonable than the average Internet Aggie, but your concern with conference strength is a bit... Aggie? S-E-C-ish? :rcmad:

I used to loathe and now I love the "if everyone ends the season undefeated, who gets left out" worries. Then, when everyone loses, the concern turns to who has the "quality loss." Then, in extreme :les: cases, you start comparing two-loss teams.

The BCS system is ridiculous and the Big 12 sucks, but until either screws OU (and let's be honest -- the BCS and Big 12 have been extremely favorable to OU over their lifespans), they're as irrelevant as whether the Pac 12 is stronger than XXX discussions

:) cheers!

[Mac94]

but your concern with conference strength is a bit... Aggie? S-E-C-ish?

Aggie"ish"? maybe ... but has really nothing to do with the SEC and more from the dying days of the SWC when A&M was a big fish in the little pond of the SWC. It worked against us on a national level.

And it is a fact of life in these BCS days although it hasn't burned OU. The whole Bama run has been created by this conference stuff. Last year it was Bama given the nod over other one loss teams because Bama was in the big bad SEC ... the year before it was Bama over oSu ... all because of this conference stuff. 2008 was a ton of one loss debates from OU, Florida, Bama, USC, Texas, Penn St.

Now it is true OU has benefited ... but the vast majority of that time the Big-12 was one of the top two conferences and in that time the Big-12 south was argued to be the toughest division in college ball. The current Big-12 ain't that Big-12. Then it helped ... now it hurts.

[badger]

We could keep this argument up all day, dear.

Notre Dame: Hi Mac94! I agree with you that strength of conference is very important in reaching the national title game. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mac94]

Hi ... that Notre Dame team was the ONLY major undefeated team in the nation ... they got in by default. They were NOT a one loss team mired in a debated of one loss teams ... that was reserved for who would face Notre Dame.

Hi badger, TCU, Boise St., Utah, etc would like to remind you that being undefeated don't mean crap if your conference sucks ;)

[badger]

Hi Mac94. 2004 Auburn would like to remind you that being undefeated don't mean crap if your conference doesn't suck either.

Are we really kidding ourselves into thinking that 120+ FBS teams think they're competing for a national title on an annual basis? If that's what we're going on, why didn't you guys join Conference USA instead?

[Mac94]

Hi Mac94. 2004 Auburn would like to remind you that being undefeated don't mean crap if your conference doesn't suck either.

But it does go to shopw that perception matters ... it does in this dying BCS era ... but it will in the 4 team playoff format also. Perception matters ... and being top dog in a bad conference doesn't help in how outsiders see a team.


Are we really kidding ourselves into thinking that 120+ FBS teams think they're competing for a national title on an annual basis? If that's what we're going on, why didn't you guys join Conference USA instead?

Of course not ... no one gives a flip about the Sunbelt or MAC or even AAC. Thats why Utah is now in the Pac-12 and TCU and W. Virginia are in the Big-12 ... relevence. But ... amoung the top 5 conferences there is still a "pecking" order of strength and relevence and unfortunately OU now resides in the bottom level of that pecking order. OU hasn;t been in that situation under the current world of college football and it sucks for Sooner football. That's why conference perception matters. Of course, winning is first and foremost but if a team wins then things like this matter.

[8timechamps]

I've seen this question several times this week (on ESPN, etc.), and there is absolutely no way to know at this point which conference is the best. I'd say the SEC is #1, if only because they've done what they're supposed to do, and until their uncrowned, they should be on top. After that, it's a logjam. I wouldn't put the Big XII in the top 3 though.

[badger]

I guess I really don't care this season about strength of schedule, perception, rankings and the the like because I'm just waiting for every other team to lose, which inevitably happens every season. And if we lose, I know we're out of the discussion, but... doesn't this sound eerily like 2000 to some of you older farts? Miami, FSU and Washington were all considered "better" but they all lost, so I guess we have to vote Oklahoma into the national title game... and crap, they won that too, so I guess we have to declare them national champions now? Aww, but Miami... yeah, they lost, sorry U.

Weinke: But dang it, that Heisman is MINE! MINE MINE MINE!

[Mac94]

but... doesn't this sound eerily like 2000 to some of you older farts?

But that gets to part of the problem of the conference.

OU this October will face a 2-2 TCU team, a 2-2 Texas squad, a horrible Kansas squad, and #20 Texas Tech. How in any way does that compare to the "Red October" run of #11 Texas, #2 Kansas St., and #1 Nebraska? OU, in 2000, was in position to catch the eyes of the nation with a run of wins against highly ranked competition. Then OU would still get #23 ranked A&M and the Big-12 title game against #8 Kansas St..

This version of the Big-12 will give OU what in comparision?

This Sooner squad may have the moxie and heart of that Sooner group ... hopefully they do ... gotta like what we've seen so far ... but the Big-12 of now doesn't give this team the opportunity the 2000 squad had to capture the eyes of the nation.

[delhalew]

The truth is, as much as I love laughing at the whorns, we are going to need them to climb out of the toilet at some point.
Conference matters a little. Quality wins matter a great deal. The more the better.

[badger]

the Big-12 of now doesn't give this team the opportunity the 2000 squad had to capture the eyes of the nation.

Heh... you may be forgetting that in this era of billions in TV contracts, every team from the mid-majors to the big boys are more visible than ever (unless they're on the Longhorn Network, but of course). To those determined to discredit the Big 12 and its almighty Sooners, the argument might be that all of that TV will cause more competition for eyeballs. I give an unenthusiastic *yawn* their direction.

I know that OU will face tough competition for a national title bid if there's 3 or more undefeated teams. But really... that's unlikely to happen. We'll either lose or someone else will. I prefer "someone else"

[Mac94]

LOL ... just because a game is on TV doesn't make it relevent or important ... Kansas Vs Rice is on TV this weekend ... does that mean it carries the same importance and relevence as #4 Ohio St vs #16 Northwestern saturday night on ABC?


I know that OU will face tough competition for a national title bid if there's 3 or more undefeated teams. But really... that's unlikely to happen. We'll either lose or someone else will. I prefer "someone else"

Lol ... since my Aggies have already lost and field a craptastic defense I think we can both agree with this one. However ... what has been proven to be pretty likely is the "one loss beauty contest" ... OU needs to win out to avoid that mess.

[8timechamps]

LOL ... just because a game is on TV doesn't make it relevent or important ... Kansas Vs Rice is on TV this weekend ... does that mean it carries the same importance and relevence as #4 Ohio St vs #16 Northwestern saturday night on ABC?



Lol ... since my Aggies have already lost and field a craptastic defense I think we can both agree with this one. However ... what has been proven to be pretty likely is the "one loss beauty contest" ... OU needs to win out to avoid that mess.

Wait, I just watched that game two weeks ago.

[BigTip]

The truth is, as much as I love laughing at the whorns, we are going to need them to climb out of the toilet at some point.
Conference matters a little. Quality wins matter a great deal. The more the better.

True.

And for this year we don't want Baylor to lose to the hillbillies or anybody. We need some quality, high profile, wins. Big TV, big props for undefeated us when we beat hopefully undefeated Baylor.

We will still need help with other undefeateds getting knocked off.

I can't believe I am discussing this. It's a good thing!

[picasso]

If we lose then we don't deserve to be in the title game.
If we finish the regular season undefeated you can bet your *** we'll jump any Southern Klan team with one loss.

[BoulderSooner79]

If we lose then we don't deserve to be in the title game.
If we finish the regular season undefeated you can bet your *** we'll jump any Southern Klan team with one loss.

^This. It's not a 100% guarantee, but it's probably 98%+. That last 2% sure keeps a lot of folks up at night.

[badger]

Wait, I just watched that game two weeks ago.

Instant replay isn't what it used to be.


If we lose then we don't deserve to be in the title game.
If we finish the regular season undefeated you can bet your *** we'll jump any Southern Klan team with one loss.

Pretty much. I know that might make all of the one-loss SEC teams upset (and the list there grows every week) but seriously... a 14-team conference and only two can make it to the BCS each year. You are going to get bypassed for the big bowl games by "lesser" teams regardless of what the BCS poll decides by virtue of your bloated conference and the limits on how many per conference can get invited.

[Mac94]

btw ... it's Rice vs Tulsa this weekend ... not Kansas ... oh well, point still stands ;)

And an undefeated OU squad will make it ahead of a one loss team ... the issue comes into play in comparisons of undefeateds or one loss teams (and those one loss beauty contests have been pretty frequent).

[swardboy]

So you're saying we have a chance?

[badger]

And an undefeated OU squad will make it ahead of a one loss team ... the issue comes into play in comparisons of undefeateds or one loss teams (and those one loss beauty contests have been pretty frequent).

Only if the loss happened awhile ago and there aren't two undefeateds from big boy conferences

Really though, we are probably going to get got before this season is over. If we let Mack have this year, can we keep him at Texas till 2020? I think it's fair to trade one loss for a guaranteed six more RRS wins, don't you all? :mack:

[BoulderSooner79]

Only if the loss happened awhile ago and there aren't two undefeateds from big boy conferences

Really though, we are probably going to get got before this season is over. If we let Mack have this year, can we keep him at Texas till 2020? I think it's fair to trade one loss for a guaranteed six more RRS wins, don't you all? :mack:

Mack's retirement/promotion party is probably scheduled already. Might as well give him one more spankin' in Dallas.

[Mac94]

Mack's retirement/promotion party is probably scheduled already. Might as well give him one more spankin' in Dallas.

This ... although Dodd's isn't out the door officially till next August ... Texas wants his replacement in by sometime in December. They aren't rushing the new guy in so he can watch Rick Barnes coach basketball.

[badger]

Mack's retirement/promotion party is probably scheduled already. Might as well give him one more spankin' in Dallas.

You mean KSU lost to them for NOTHING?!


so he can watch Rick Barnes coach basketball.

Is THAT what he does? Of course, Texas fans probably think they're being fans when they arrive late and leave early

[BoulderSooner79]

You mean KSU lost to them for NOTHING?!


Not exactly. The horns are going to whip ISU handily as well. It's all an evil plot by the team to reignite the horn fans hopes of winning in Dallas. They'll say they expect to lose to OU on their fan boards, but they'll show up in Dallas with hopes renewed after vanquishing mighty KSU and ISU. I'm hoping you can post that picture of the half-red/half-empty stadium again in the meltdown thread.

[badger]

I'm hoping you can post that picture of the half-red/half-empty stadium again in the meltdown thread.

You underestimate how many on the orange side have already sold their tickets to surplus red side fans Hook em

[BoulderSooner79]

You underestimate how many on the orange side have already sold their tickets to surplus red side fans Hook em

They'll be buying them back at a premium after looking so awesome against the formidable ISU. Burnt orange hopes spring eternal (and we must crush them).

[badger]

1- Lose to Iowa State
2- Mack resigns
3- Greg Robinson appointment interim
4- Lose to OU by 60

ALTERNATE ENDING!

3- Major Applewhite appointed interim
5- Lose to OU by 77