SI part 5: The Fallout

[badger]

Guess who arrived a day early! (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130916/oklahoma-state-part-5-fallout/?sct=hp_t11_a2&eref=sihp)

Even if you hate this series and all it stands for, there's some real sad stuff in it, like this:


In September '06, White was a passenger in a car that officers pulled over and searched. They found marijuana. Though White was the only member of the group not charged -- and though OSU had a history of overlooking drug use and drug offenses among its stars -- Gundy kicked him off the team. White says he offered to take a drug test on the spot, but Gundy was not persuaded. (Gundy declined to comment for this story.) The official reason given for White's departure: a violation of team rules.

That afternoon, White says, a graduate assistant drove him 65 miles to Oklahoma City, handed him a few bucks and put him on a bus home. After a tear-filled, five-hour journey, White was back home, his career as an Oklahoma State football player terminated. He didn't even get to finish out the semester. (That November, White was charged with concealing stolen property after a resident in his old Oklahoma State dormitory was caught with a stolen bicycle and claimed that he was holding it for White. The charges were eventually dismissed.) When a backup like White is run off from a BCS school, the assumption is that he will be fine, that he can simply transfer to a lesser program. But that fails to account for the psychological impact of being devalued. What does it do to a young man to suddenly learn he is disposable?

*****

In the summer of 2003 reserve offensive lineman Jonathan Cruz's scholarship was revoked because of academic troubles -- troubles that many more prominent players avoided by having substantial coursework done for them. Cruz says he loaded a single bullet into a 9-mm revolver, spun the cylinder, put the gun to his head, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger. "[I'm] hoping that maybe if it does go off [the Oklahoma State coaches] are going to find me," Cruz said in a taped, two-hour interview last April. "They'll know why this happened." After the gun didn't fire, Cruz cried for hours. "You want to reach out [to someone], but where do you go?" Cruz says. "I was so miserable, and nobody understood because, in my opinion at the time, nobody cared to understand." He says he became a cocaine addict and "a major drug trafficker," moving as much as 30 pounds of marijuana a week. Cruz enrolled at Northeastern State, a Division II school in Tahlequah, Okla., and eventually cleaned up. He now teaches and coaches at a high school in the Dallas area.

On the day in August 2005 when Gundy kicked him off the team for an undisclosed violation of team rules, defensive back Thomas Wright was so distraught, he says, "I took a whole bunch of prescription pills and bought a 20-pack [of beer] and got on the highway and drove. I couldn't stop crying. I didn't even want to live anymore." Worried that he might pass out and hit another motorist, he pulled over, got a hotel room and went to sleep, believing he would never wake up. "I tried to take my [life], and it didn't work," he says. Wright has been in and out of prison since leaving school, mostly for alcohol-related offenses. He has been living with his parents in Sweeny, Texas, and says he regularly attends substance-abuse meetings, but his grip on sobriety is a fragile one.

I wonder if there's similar stories of players who fell out of favor at OU. I mean, we all know that when DuPree left, that he had a rough time, and not just for missing the '85 title season. Is there an obligation on the NCAA's part to make sure that its current and former student athletes have a support system in place for when football is done, for whatever reason? Or, like everything else, is it the member institution's responsibility (even though they have a conflict of interest) to take care of it?

[Flagstaffsooner]

There is some awful stuff in there. I feel bad for those guys.

[Soonerjeepman]

meh...I see a lot of personal accountability not taken here. Sure osu did some "things" that should be questioned...but in the end it's the players responsibility to stay on top of things for themselves.

[badger]

meh...I see a lot of personal accountability not taken here. Sure osu did some "things" that should be questioned...but in the end it's the players responsibility to stay on top of things for themselves.

Yeah, when you go from the highest high to the lowest low, it's easy to blame others (I think that was the theme of 8 Mile movie, heh).

Pretty much all I got out of this series was that it is very easy for a player to fall through the cracks in the current system. A majority will not turn pro, a majority won't even leave with a college degree and some turn out worse than after they arrived at a university.

What can programs like ours, as well as the NCAA, do to ensure that fewer players fall through the cracks?

[Mjcpr]

Where do you get 20 packs?

[badger]

Where do you get 20 packs?

It's probably a recession-hit 24-pack... you know how bottles of soda suddenly morphed from 20 oz down to 16/12/8? Or the 2 liters that are now 1.5 liters? Probably the same principle :)

[sooner_born_1960]

Where do you get 20 packs?
My first thought too.

[OU_Sooners75]

Where do you get 20 packs?

Bottles

[badger]

Whoa, they DO exist!
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/01/82/00/11/0001820011025_500X500.jpg
i'm joking, i wouldn't know without googling. i don't drink beer

[Mjcpr]

Bottles

Ah, I'm a can man myself. :D

[SoonerorLater]

There's some bad stuff but I fail to see how it's OSU's fault. Sounds like these guys screwed up and got the boot.

[Soonerjeepman]

Badge,
I agree..I have coached kids that go to juco for fball or basketball..MOST leave after a semester. Most are ill-prepared to attend college and have no idea the academic rigor it takes. I'd say most of these D1 guys are in the same boat. It's sad, but I think parents, teachers and even the kids themselves are not honest and telling the kids..."hey you are NOT ready, you better get help from day 1" for fear of doing damage to their self-esteem.

[Aries]

I thought the articles were interesting, but I'm not sure what to make of them. I suspect the truth lies somewhere between SI's version and OSU's version but I'm not sure which is closer to the truth.

[badger]

"hey you are NOT ready, you better get help from day 1"

It's a Millennial epidemic. My generation has been told how special they are since birth and its after effects are not higher self esteem, but rather, being ill prepared for real life consequences for... well, not being prepared!

I would like to hope that our generation will teach the next one about self accountability and responsibility, that life will not bail you out whenever you have trouble and there will be difficult patches to overcome, but then you continue to hear about how people are just taking their frustrations out on twitter and can't post enough selfies on facebook.

[tycat947]

BTW, Booger dropped off the Forbes Top 400 this year and isn't a billionaire anymore.


Twenty-eight people dropped off the list, including six who died. Those now falling short of the cut include energy tycoon T. Boone Pickens at $950 million, Graham Weston of Rackspace Hosting Inc. at $920 million and Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder at $1.2 billion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/bill-gates-richest-american_n_3934007.html

[CowboyMRW]

I do feel bad for those three as I don't know what really went on, but attempted suicide is definitely nothing to scoff at.

The one thing I took from Artrell was that he can't eat or get gas everyday, but he can drink every night and smoke every day? Seems odd.

Also to say that we turned our back on Herschel is just dumb. He was our first ever 5 star recruit I believe and was expected to take over after Randle left. He'd be our starter right now if he was still here. Also, if our coaches were paying players like Part 1 said, shouldn't Gundy have eagerly handed over the 700 dollars it was to pay back?

[badger]

Also to say that we turned our back on Herschel is just dumb. He was our first ever 5 star recruit I believe and was expected to take over after Randle left. He'd be our starter right now if he was still here.

I remember never hearing anything positive about that guy, except for that he had a football-like name and was a 5-star recruit. I remember local media reporting that he spent an entire week doing a stairmaster in full pads and helmet after he took to twitter following the opener, which he didn't play in.


BTW, Booger dropped off the Forbes Top 400 this year and isn't a billionaire anymore.

If his investments were doing well, OSU athletics wouldn't have had to rely on him to cover for a LOT of losses lately. Gift of a Lifetime? Boone's idea. Holding onto investment portfolio worth $400 million+ before the recession crash? Boone's idea.

[KantoSooner]

If anyone cares to post it, I thank you in advance. SI's got some thing on their site now that requires you to click on an ad before the site's unlocked....and when you click on it, it freezes and causes my system to crash. I tried to find humor and irony in the situation and finally came to the conclusion that there was none, just SI continuing along in their slowly twisting death spiral.

[badger]

If OP.com doesn't also crash your computer, they have the entire thing posted (in an effort to not give SI.com more traffic)

Link (http://www.orangepower.com/threads/part-5-the-fallout.174039/)

[KantoSooner]

T'anks.

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm sure there are stories like this from all major football programs. These kids have been stars all their life through HS and suddenly they hit their limit and are not even wanted anymore. The competitive nature of D1 sports is 100x what is found in most parts of society, but these kids have the same coping abilities as anyone else. I'm sure coaches tell them when they come into the program they better take the school side of things seriously and that most of them will never play pro ball. But how many 18yo highly recruited kids are going to believe that? Also, the message from coaches is going to be mixed (and not just Lester's 1 finger/2 finger trick). They may be told to get that degree, but you think a coach would let them miss 1 minute of practive if it overlapped with a class they really needed for their degree? And the pressure from fans isn't going to help either. How many fans are posting about how great it is that McFarland stuck with the program and got his degree vs. how many complain that he didn't live up to his 5 star billing?

[badger]

How many fans are posting about how great it is that McFarland stuck with the program and got his degree vs. how many complain that he didn't live up to his 5 star billing?

I promise to never personally complain on that front, especially since McFarland -- if I'm not mistaken -- was a four-year starter. Nothing to sneeze at.

What I would like to see established by OSU after this SI series is some independent accountability and oversight committees/personnel. Don't tell the world that this happens everywhere, let the world know that it doesn't happen in Stillwater, because you have the means in place to hold OSU to higher standards.

Then, the NCAA needs to clearly establish what its role and responsibility is in situations like those described at OSU. Establish and enforce the maximum allowed stipend beyond room/board/books/etc for athletes, even if it's still zero. Make scholarships four years with academic requirements (as opposed to athletic performance) for staying eligible, as opposed to one year renewable. Have the NCAA issue drug-related suspensions instead of schools, with strict rules on testing. Give athletes post-playing resources, including those that end up without college degrees, including drug rehab and career services.

Oh, and I guess you should also ask players to only have consensual sex with consenting adults. :P

[cleller]

Sometimes in life, if you screw up and screw others enough- you get canned. The sack. The Heave-ho. The Spanish Archer (El-bow)...


Yes it is sad, but lots of ownership is being sidestepped. After all, these are OSU guys.

[jkjsooner]

Also to say that we turned our back on Herschel is just dumb. He was our first ever 5 star recruit I believe and was expected to take over after Randle left. He'd be our starter right now if he was still here. Also, if our coaches were paying players like Part 1 said, shouldn't Gundy have eagerly handed over the 700 dollars it was to pay back?

I didn't even realize that Herschel Sims was no longer at OSU.

[BoulderSooner79]

Sometimes in life, if you screw up and screw others enough- you get canned. The sack. The Heave-ho. The Spanish Archer (El-bow)...


Yes it is sad, but lots of ownership is being sidestepped.

Easy to sit back and say that, but I do think D1 football is a different than "normal" life. I work in the very competitive programming world in the heart of silicon valley. The top performers get all the stock options, bonuses, promotions, etc. But your more average guy gets treated pretty darn well if s/he can contribute in some way. They don't get kicked to the curb because of an 85 scholarship rule and they can go to another company if it is not working out at their current one. They are not "finished" if they get passed over on the depth chart. But even with this much less competitve real world, some can't cope with the pressure and drop out and face problems just like some of these player's stories (depresssion, addiction, etc.). I don't have any answers, but I can acknowledge that the same competitive environment that produces excellence on the field has it's tough side effects. The best support system for these kids is would be a strong family behind them, but not all of them have that.

[jkjsooner]

Make scholarships four years with academic requirements (as opposed to athletic performance) for staying eligible, as opposed to one year renewable.

The NCAA did at least give schools an option to offer 4 year scholarships. So far it hasn't been used by a lot of major schools.

http://college-football.si.com/2013/04/19/ncaa-multiyear-scholarships/

You'd think that at least for the most talented guys some schools would use it to sweeten the pot. The problem is that most five star players don't think that there's ever a chance they could be cut...

The funny thing was that a lot of small liberal arts schools were the most vocal against the four year scholarships.


Have the NCAA issue drug-related suspensions instead of schools, with strict rules on testing. Give athletes post-playing resources, including those that end up without college degrees, including drug rehab and career services.

Another good idea. However, the NCAA itself is a fairly small organization. Do they really want to build such a bureaucracy? Do the schools and fans really want the NCAA to do this?

[jkjsooner]

Let's be honest here. The system of college football and basketball is pretty messed up.

I love college football as much as anyone and I take a lot of pride in OU's traditions and how we play on Saturdays. But when I hear some of the guys who wear crimson and cream speak it's pretty embarrassing. Too many of them do not belong anywhere near a college campus. The only saving grace is that it's pretty much the same everywhere except for the more prestigious schools like ND and Stanford.

I suppose I'd rather live with the flaws so I'm not suggesting an overhaul of the system.

[Temujin]

If anyone cares to post it, I thank you in advance. SI's got some thing on their site now that requires you to click on an ad before the site's unlocked....and when you click on it, it freezes and causes my system to crash. I tried to find humor and irony in the situation and finally came to the conclusion that there was none, just SI continuing along in their slowly twisting death spiral.

Chrome with ad-block plus, my friend. ;)

[Tear Down This Wall]

Again...every school in America has butt-hurt former players. A scholarship is only one-year, renewable from year to year for a reason - you may not be pulling your end of the bargain academically or conduct-wise.

Guess what, crybabies? The real world is the same way. How many employers would let you f*ck around, get high, steal things, not finish work, and/or deal drugs on the company dime?

Believe me, I am as disgusted as anyone else that we are still in the same conference with those morons in Stoolwater. But, this whole SI series was overblown to the nth degree.

[KantoSooner]

Chrome with ad-block plus, my friend. ;)

Headed in that direction. Used to be Appleian, but the company here was retrograde MSDOS stuff. I'm slowly conniving to get off our ancient server and onto a cloud base. Then I will probably move to something a bit more spicy. Until then, I content myself by wishing armageddon upon predatory ad policy websites.

[KantoSooner]

Again...every school in America has butt-hurt former players. A scholarship is only one-year, renewable from year to year for a reason - you may not be pulling your end of the bargain academically or conduct-wise.

Guess what, crybabies? The real world is the same way. How many employers would let you f*ck around, get high, steal things, not finish work, and/or deal drugs on the company dime?

Believe me, I am as disgusted as anyone else that we are still in the same conference with those morons in Stoolwater. But, this whole SI series was overblown to the nth degree.

Yes, yes, and yes.

[Temujin]

Again...every school in America has butt-hurt former players. A scholarship is only one-year, renewable from year to year for a reason - you may not be pulling your end of the bargain academically or conduct-wise.

Guess what, crybabies? The real world is the same way. How many employers would let you f*ck around, get high, steal things, not finish work, and/or deal drugs on the company dime?

Believe me, I am as disgusted as anyone else that we are still in the same conference with those morons in Stoolwater. But, this whole SI series was overblown to the nth degree.

I think you just have to look at the article in the right way. I don't look at it as a piece on OSU corruption as much as I see it as a peek into how badly the whole college athletics scheme is set up in the first place. In that light, I think it pretty much sums up the problems that colleges AND students face.

But I think it's wrong to put the blame only on the player, or only on the university. The kids do need to be personally responsible, but the university is also making millions off that player...and sometimes even off a player's potential. The problem is where do you draw the line between student and employee. Currently there is no good definition in college athletics.

Sure, if the kid is being irresponsible, kick him off the team. But if you foster an environment of irresponsibility, do you really have a basis for punishing that kid? And if a kid breaks his back, literally, doing what he's supposed to be doing, especially if the university doesn't provide the appropriate safety measures (a spotter)...shouldn't the university at least be responsible for the kids medical bills?

Until someone can answer those questions legitimately, this is the kind of thing we're going to see everywhere.

[Temujin]

Headed in that direction. Used to be Appleian, but the company here was retrograde MSDOS stuff. I'm slowly conniving to get off our ancient server and onto a cloud base. Then I will probably move to something a bit more spicy. Until then, I content myself by wishing armageddon upon predatory ad policy websites.

LOL, I understand. Was an Apple guy myself for a while. They're still okay...better than Winblows, but now Apple is too cartoon-y for my taste. I liked it better when OS X was just a fancy Darwin build. Chrome has occasional issues, but it suits me just fine.

[Soonerjeepman]

But how many 18yo highly recruited kids are going to believe that?

lol...crap our guys were NOT highly recruited...mainly juco's...and THEY believed they'd make it in "the league"...either fball or basketball...just shook my head.

My son, just got back from playing at Independence CC here is KS. Baseball, mainly a pitcher, but played 1st, caught and outfield. He is NO WHERE near a stud at baseball, but the coach liked him and actually told him he could have a "very successful college career" if he wanted. He KNOWS it's about school and not even thinkin of pro ball at any level...THAT is the difference...I've been in his ear the whole time about school~ not telling him he's the greatest thing since sliced bread...

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Badge,
I agree..I have coached kids that go to juco for fball or basketball..MOST leave after a semester. Most are ill-prepared to attend college and have no idea the academic rigor it takes. I'd say most of these D1 guys are in the same boat. It's sad, but I think parents, teachers and even the kids themselves are not honest and telling the kids..."hey you are NOT ready, you better get help from day 1" for fear of doing damage to their self-esteem.

I'm a middle school teacher so I can't speak precisely to college prep but I'll put in my two cents. There is a de-emphasis on college ready skills in public schools even though the goal is to prepare students for college. There is more emphasis on having students discover things, guide their own learning and lacks rigor. College does not mesh with this. College classes are still teacher-directed, take notes, study, memorize stuff. It's not difficult to see why these kids drop out so quickly and that they are not prepared like you said.

I agree with the point that some of this is the players problem. I imagine most schools offer tutoring services to all students (mine did) and additional services and tutors to athletes.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

While this last installment of OSU's problems was interesting, it isn't all their fault. Woods was kept on scholarship but chose to left and now complains he can't afford to continue his education. Seems like a boneheaded personal decision cost you there and while I feel bad life hasn't gone how you planned you can't look anywhere else but the mirror for not having a college degree of some sort.

[MsProudSooner]

If you kicked a kid off of the team, why wouldn't you let him finish out the semester if he wanted to? (Assuming his side of the story is accurtate.)

[olevetonahill]

Where do you get 20 packs?

Hes an aggie , Just confused a bit it was a 18 pack with a 2 pack side.

[Peeb]

...
Believe me, I am as disgusted as anyone else that we are still in the same conference with those morons in Stoolwater. But, this whole SI series was overblown to the nth degree.
Awww, Tear-down, that's the sweetest thing you've ever said. :D

[badger]

Now that they've gone after schools that have had success in building their losing programs into winning ones, perhaps SI can do another series on the opposite program:

Programs that continually seek ways to stop sucking, usually via obscene amounts of money to coaches.

Culprits:
Kansas: Fired Mark Mangino but continued to pay him, fired Turner Gill but continued to pay him, hired Charlie Weis for $2 million annually while still paying the two previous head coaches. Gag.

Iowa: What, exactly, is Head Coach Kirk doing to earn his top-10 coaching salary in the nation?

Tennessee: We love you Fat Fulmer, now GTFO so we can make room for... LANE KIFFIN! Bye Lane... hello... DEREK DOOLEY! GTFO Derek... who the hell do they have now?!

Washington: Our search for the next great coach produced... Tyrone Willingham! OK, that was an epic failure, let's see who Pete's top USC assistant is...

Notre Dame: GTFO Tyrone... let's pay Charlie a 10-year contract after he nearly beat USC! Well that exploded in our faces, maybe this Cincy transplant will yield better results?

Texas: :mack:

Every conference, every region, it's a college football epidemic.

[Jacie]

The NCAA should follow their own advice.

The four-year scholarship is touted by the NCAA as a way for a school to commit to the student-athlete with a guarantee of an education.

How about the NCAA reward schools that give these out extra scholarships, say 1 more for every 10 four-year scholarships given out?

At most, a school would sign 9 more players and how many would give out 85 four-year scholarships? Probably none, so . . .

[badger]

The NCAA should follow their own advice.

The four-year scholarship is touted by the NCAA as a way for a school to commit to the student-athlete with a guarantee of an education.

How about the NCAA reward schools that give these out extra scholarships, say 1 more for every 10 four-year scholarships given out?

At most, a school would sign 9 more players and how many would give out 85 four-year scholarships? Probably none, so . . .

I see a math problem with that --- if they gave out 4-years to everyone in an annual 25-limit class, how do they end up with 85 total on the team?

They could expand the total limit to 100, or just limit teams to 21 or 22 annually if they really wanted to go that route, I guess.

[OU_Sooners75]

There's some bad stuff but I fail to see how it's OSU's fault. Sounds like these guys screwed up and got the boot.

If OSU did treat them like that just because they were seeing the field then that is bad.

But from the sounds of it every one of them made bad choices on their own and are now blaming OSU. Instead they should accept responsibility and move forward.

[OU_Sooners75]

The NCAA should follow their own advice.

The four-year scholarship is touted by the NCAA as a way for a school to commit to the student-athlete with a guarantee of an education.

How about the NCAA reward schools that give these out extra scholarships, say 1 more for every 10 four-year scholarships given out?

At most, a school would sign 9 more players and how many would give out 85 four-year scholarships? Probably none, so . . .

I see a math problem with that --- if they gave out 4-years to everyone in an annual 25-limit class, how do they end up with 85 total on the team?

They could expand the total limit to 100, or just limit teams to 21 or 22 annually if they really wanted to go that route, I guess.

Exactly. The way the NCAA has capped scholarship limits, it only invites messes like this.