OSU Sports Illustrated Article Part 3 - The Drugs

[Judge Smails]

At around 5:30 a.m. on Feb. 8, 2009, Stillwater police executed a search warrant at the off-campus residence of Oklahoma State junior wide receiver Bo Bowling. An ex-girlfriend, whom police officers found inebriated outside Bowling's home, had told them that Bowling had marijuana in his possession. When they searched his home they found 108.6 grams of weed, unspecified quantities of alprazolam (a prescription anxiety medication commonly known as Xanax), ephedrine (a stimulant) and the anabolic steroid stanozolol. There were also several plastic bags (some later found to contain marijuana residue), a digital scale and more than $1,000 in cash.

After police charged Bowling with felony possession of marijuana with intent to distribute as well as misdemeanor charges of possession of a controlled substance and unlawful possession of drug paraphernalia, Cowboys coach Mike Gundy suspended him indefinitely -- and that was that. There was no internal investigation to ascertain whether Bowling's alleged drug dealing involved teammates or if the steroids in his home indicated wider issues of performance-enhancing drugs on the team. A year later Bowling pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors, possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, and was sentenced to 30 days in jail, community service and counseling. He rejoined the team for the 2010 season.

Oklahoma State's response to the Bowling case was consistent with its approach to drugs over the last decade. As the Cowboys have risen from Big 12 cellar-dweller to one of the nation's elite teams, widespread marijuana use by players and even some drug dealing has gone largely unexamined, unchecked and untreated.

Full coverage of SI's special report on the Oklahoma State football program

"Drugs were everywhere," says Donnell Williams, a linebacker on the 2006 team who says he didn't use drugs but observed other players who did. Other players echoed that, saying it was common for some players to smoke weed before games. "[Against] teams we knew we were going to roll, a couple of guys would get high," says Calvin Mickens, a cornerback from 2005 to '07. "Some of the guys [it] didn't matter what game it was, they were going to get high." In the weeks leading up to the 2012 Fiesta Bowl, running back Herschel Sims says that so many of his teammates were smoking marijuana regularly that if the school had suspended those who had the drug in their system, "we probably would have lost about 15-20 people who actually played." (According to the school, 18 of the team's more than 100 players were randomly tested by the NCAA before the game; one tested positive and was suspended.)

VIDEO: Behind the investigation

Three former players admitted to SI that they dealt marijuana while members of the 2001, '04 and '06 teams. Players from seven other seasons between 2001 and '12 were accused by teammates (or, in the case of Bowling, by police) of also dealing drugs, meaning the program hosted an alleged or admitted drug dealer in 10 of the last 12 seasons.

Drug use among college athletes often mirrors that of the student body. Division I football programs, however, have developed different policies and programs to deal with drug use by players. The makeup of those programs and policies and how they are applied can be revealing. Oklahoma State had one of the nation's more lenient policies -- yet the Cowboys still abused it. Frequent positive tests by stars were ignored while lesser players were suspended or kicked off the team. The team's substance-abuse counselor from at least 2007 to the present was an assistant strength-and-conditioning coach with no experience treating drug users; his bio on the university's website incorrectly stated that he had a master's degree in counseling.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130912/oklahoma-state-part-3-drugs/#ixzz2egXcrEC5

[badger]

When it comes to marijuana, I cannot believe that the same people that are crying foul over tobacco use seem to be OK with the rise in marijuana. Oh, we'll tax it. Oh, it'll be regulated. Oh, it won't be allowed in public. Oh, we'll have laws against driving while impaired.

I hope that nobody in my family ever uses marijuana or any other illegal drug. And I hope it stays illegal.

[Judge Smails]

OSU's Weed Circle = Obama's Choom Gang

[Boomer.....]

This seems juicy. Obviously there are players who smoke weed, no doubt about it. The fake counseling and "slaps on the wrist" as well as non-qualified, football related counselor, etc. might hold some weight.

[badger]

If the NCAA is going to continue to collect all of that basketball tournament money, the least they can do is get some independent enforcement of their rules instead of depending on programs with conflicts of interest to look after their own.

Otherwise, you're going to get the :les: law enforcement: Team, it is up to you to vote now whether our star player is suspended for our big opener against TCU or not.

[kbsooner21]

This is one of the weakest attempts to try and bring a program down as I've ever seen. This stuff being reported is pretty dayum weak. For as much as I hate Okie Lite, I hope they sue the pants off of SI.

[badger]

I hope they sue the pants off of SI.

They would probably be as successful as Mike Leach was suing ESPN and Texas Tech.

[soonersam]

Now that I think about it, their secondary looked high at times

[badger]

It's too bad we don't have any big matchups scheduled for home this year. Could have had some fun behind the Gameday crew with all of this alleged allegations reportedly reported.

[cherokeebrewer]

This expose' is starting to look like a bunch of bullspit...

[En_Fuego]

This is one of the weakest attempts to try and bring a program down as I've ever seen. This stuff being reported is pretty dayum weak. For as much as I hate Okie Lite, I hope they sue the pants off of SI.

If this is all Thayer Evans has then he needs to run and hide. TBooger and his cronies might just put a hit out on this d!p****. All of this sounds very very weak and lame.

But still ..... Sheephumpers Suck

[Bourbon St Sooner]

The overwhelming sense I have is that nobody cares about this SI expose. This is a very lame attempt to drag some folks through the mud to sell a few magazines.

College kids smoking pot? Shocking!

[Tear Down This Wall]

Again, as with parts I and II, what is the big f'ing deal here? We've had guys arrested for marijuana and they've played. I think Stoops held out Brandon Everage for the 2003 season opener against UNT before letting him rejoin the team. We took that kid McGruder from Tennessee who had some sort of weed problem/arrest.

Hell, half the TCU football team was dealing a couple of years ago...and we welcomed them with open arms into the Big 12! Puff away, Horned Frogs...just don't bogart the j, bruthah; keep passing it down!

Speaking of marijuana and sports and conference-joiners...instead of WVU and TCU, we should have let UNT into the Big 12. Denton is full of weed and music.

Look, I don't personally use the looney lettuce at this point in my career. But, this happens at so many places, it's kind of a non-issue. Does SI think it's 1957?

The only thing that makes me sad is that it was a Bowling involved. My dad's clan and Bowling's clan schooled and churched together back in the 50s and 60s on the west side. Webster Warriors and Carbondale Church of Christers. The Calmuses were also Tulsa west-siders/Webster Warriors from back in the day; although, I don't think they went to Carbondale for church.

[En_Fuego]

When it comes to marijuana, I cannot believe that the same people that are crying foul over tobacco use seem to be OK with the rise in marijuana. Oh, we'll tax it. Oh, it'll be regulated. Oh, it won't be allowed in public. Oh, we'll have laws against driving while impaired.

I hope that nobody in my family ever uses marijuana or any other illegal drug. And I hope it stays illegal.

Meanwhile half the population are alcoholics driving their cars into families. Cant buy a joint but you can buy a gallon of whiskey.

Wish some of our QB's would smoke a doob before the game.

[cherokeebrewer]

College kids smoking pot? Shocking!

And having sex...Who woulda thunk it?

[Tear Down This Wall]

And having sex...Who woulda thunk it?

Well...maybe in Stoolwater it's news that they were sexing up the human females instead of the sheep. That there's news in them there parts.

[En_Fuego]

So what have we learned so far.

1. They received a buck or two for playing well....... Shocking
2. So instead of making an F they got a D.............Shocking
3. Someone smoked a joint........Shocking
4. Some had sex with women......Totally Shocking

Im Shocked

The flying feathered dick spinning whirlybird

[EatLeadCommie]

Yeah, this weed stuff is no biggie. What a shock that college kids smoke weed. What a shock that some of these kids come from backgrounds where they smoked weed in high school.

The only thing in Part 3 worth mentioning is the laughability of their enforcement mechanism. They clearly weren't serious about it. That said, Part 3 seems lacking when it comes to NCAA enforcement. The dreaded LOIC is something that can come from the money but not this.

[cherokeebrewer]

If the NCAA discovers academic fraud and/or pay for no-show jobs or any other pay for play stuff...that's when it can get real serious for poke state. I realize academic fraud is a difficult concept to understand for the folks in Stillwater...

[MsProudSooner]

The damaging part isn't that the players do drugs. The damaging part is the coaches and Athletic Department's attitude toward it. As long as the NCAA allows the schools to run their own drug testing programs, nothing will change. Until everyone, including stars, are treated the same, nothing will change. That goes for all schools.

[jkjsooner]

When it comes to marijuana, I cannot believe that the same people that are crying foul over tobacco use seem to be OK with the rise in marijuana. Oh, we'll tax it. Oh, it'll be regulated. Oh, it won't be allowed in public. Oh, we'll have laws against driving while impaired.

I hope that nobody in my family ever uses marijuana or any other illegal drug. And I hope it stays illegal.

I don't get the connection between tobacco and marijuana. Most people who complain about tobacco complain about the second hand smoke. Obviously this is less and less of a concern with more laws protecting people from second hand smoke.

Since marijuana can't be consumed in public spaces this would never be a concern.

As for personal health reasons, a pot smoker smokes a tiny fraction of marijuana as a tobacco smoker does. I don't know the science but I've heard the risk of cancer from marijuana is much lower than tobacco and that shouldn't surprise anyone considering the tiny amounts smoked.

[jkjsooner]

This is one of the weakest attempts to try and bring a program down as I've ever seen. This stuff being reported is pretty dayum weak. For as much as I hate Okie Lite, I hope they sue the pants off of SI.

What exactly are the grounds for a lawsuit? Did they make stuff up?

Whether it's weak or not, they pretty much backed up everything they've said with witness accounts.

If what they're saying is so weak then that just makes a lawsuit less credible.

[cherokeebrewer]

As for personal health reasons, a pot smoker smokes a tiny fraction of marijuana as a tobacco smoker does. I don't know the science but I've heard the risk of cancer from marijuana is much lower than tobacco and that shouldn't surprise anyone considering the tiny amounts smoked.

And no one ever died from an overdose of weed either. The real legal drug that kills is mostly alcohol...some hypocrisy in there somewhere.

[FaninAma]

The number of apologists on this thread is really amazing. The allegations include drug dealing, using female students in a scheme of sexual inducements, grade fraud, and paying players by the coaching staff.

if those things are not a big deal then lets just do away with the NCAA and turn college football into one big free-for-all. It will make the SEC look like a monastery.

The scumbag culture of the SEC's win at any cost is one of the reasons I have lost a lot of interest in college football. Excusing these allegations against OSU with the view that kids will be kids is weak and pathetic.

[FaninAma]

And no one ever died from an overdose of weed either. The real legal drug that kills is mostly alcohol...some hypocrisy in there somewhere.
Sounds like you have a lot of experience in this area. You need to follow me around the ER for a few shifts and see what kind of stupid **** kids do that are high on "weed". Wait until the traffic deaths increase in states like Colorado who have legalized weed hits the newswires.

Alcohol and weed both impair judgement. That's why dumb****s abuse Both. They want a reality escape.

[En_Fuego]

Artrell Woods interview

http://kieransteckley.com/exclusive-artrell-woods-interview/

[badger]

The number of apologists on this thread is really amazing. The allegations include drug dealing, using female students in a scheme of sexual inducements, grade fraud, and paying players by the coaching staff.

if those things are not a big deal then lets just do away with the NCAA and turn college football into one big free-for-all. It will make the SEC look like a monastery.

I think after Penn State, things like drugs and sex seem minor next to enabling pedophilia.


The scumbag culture of the SEC's win at any cost is one of the reasons I have lost a lot of interest in college football. Excusing these allegations against OSU with the view that kids will be kids is weak and pathetic.

I'm not for the scumbag culture either, but my football love has been shaken lately with all of the news of retired players dealing with head trauma and early death. I hope and pray that the Sooners and other players we love today are not going to end up like the players of past eras :(

[Tear Down This Wall]

Lighten up, Francis:

Remember this guy? http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2001/aug/30/felony-drug-charge-sours-unlv-on-ex-cheyenne-star/

UNLV wouldn't take him because of his marijuana dealing charge while he was with Tennessee. Stoops gladly took him. Stoops also didn't kick Brandon Everage off the squad in 2003 for his marijuana arrest.

Everyone needs to quit acting as if this stuff isn't happening everywhere.

Do you seriously think there has never been an OU recruits who has slept with one of the "hostesses" or whatever the hell we call them here?

And, look at the degrees chosen by most of our players. Are we pressing them onto academic excellence? Hell, no. In the majority of cases, we're doing the same thing everyone else does - steering them into communications, african american studies, "multidisciplinary studies", and whatever the fancy term for P.E. is these days.

We lower the bar academically to let football players into the school just like everyone else in FBS does. Then, the "academic advisors" put them into four year daycare programs which pass for majors. Wake me up when OU has a roster chock full of guys majoring in economics, finance, engineering, physics, or something useful.

Give it a rest, dude. The reason people aren't all up in arms is because you can walk onto any college campus today and scrape up this kind of thing in the athletic department.

Seriously, go cheer for Rice if you think football is ever going to be academics first. It's not that we necessarily like that this is what college football has become. But, what can you do? Nobody ever does anything about it. The NCAA isn't going to do crap. Neither is OSU. No one ever does anything - Stoops included - so, let it go.

Look...TCU is in town in a couple of weeks. You can score some weed off one of their players and relax a little. Per capita, no school in the Big 12 ever had more player-dealers than the Horned Frogs could boast.

[cherokeebrewer]

Sounds like you have a lot of experience in this area. You need to follow me around the ER for a few shifts and see what kind of stupid **** kids do that are high on "weed". Wait until the traffic deaths increase in states like Colorado who have legalized weed hits the newswires.

Alcohol and weed both impair judgement. That's why dumb****s abuse Both. They want a reality escape.

I think you're reading much more into what I said than what I said...but this SI article still has some smell of a witch hunt to me.

Dang, I could use a reality escape

[En_Fuego]

Sounds like you have a lot of experience in this area. You need to follow me around the ER for a few shifts and see what kind of stupid **** kids do that are high on "weed". Wait until the traffic deaths increase in states like Colorado who have legalized weed hits the newswires.

Alcohol and weed both impair judgement. That's why dumb****s abuse Both. They want a reality escape.

Prolly on molly, mdma, oxy, heroine, meth. That's what the kids in the ER do. I wonder how many DUI's with death involved are in the Colorado records ? Rather have a driver smoking weed than drunk off their azz or hallucinating off mdma anyday.

And im not taking the OSU side, i really could care less. But if SI or Yahoo or whoever can do this to them, then we ourselves (OU) could be the next victim of a sham job.

[FaninAma]

Did he keep using weed after Stoops gave him a second chance? Did he sell weed after coming to OU? That's a nice feel-good story but it has nothing to do with what has been going on at OSU.

BTW, what is OU's alcohol policy on campus? Why is that?

Those who claim marijuana use , especially among college kids, is harmless are totally ****ing clueless.

If your college-aged kid was getting high on a regular basis would you be OK with it? If you are then you are a **** poor parent IMO.

[En_Fuego]

Did he keep using weed after Stoops gave him a second chance? Did he sell weed after coming to OU? That's a nice feel-good story but it has nothing to do with what has been going on at OSU.

BTW, what is OU's alcohol policy on campus? Why is that?

Those who claim marijuana use , especially among college kids, is harmless are totally ****ing clueless.

If your college-aged kid was getting high on a regular basis would you be OK with it? If you were then you are a **** poor parent IMO.

I would buy my kids weed if they stayed off the bottle or heroine .

[FaninAma]

I think you're reading much more into what I said than what I said...but this SI article still has some smell of a witch hunt to me.

Dang, I could use a reality escape
If you just took the casual marijuana use alone you might have a point. If these same allegations were made against the OU program and were true I would be very disappointed in our athletic department.

[FaninAma]

I would buy my kids weed if they stayed off the bottle or heroine .
Then you are a **** poor parent and stupid. Idiots who use marijuana almost always abuse other drugs.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Fan,

For pete's sake...no one is saying it's totally safe. What we're saying is that it happens everywhere and nobody ever does anything about it.

SO...what's the point of the article? To prove OSU is like everyone else? Who cares? We all know weed, though bad for you, is smoked by kids and the coaches, schools, and NCAA don't do a damn thing about it. This article uncovers nothing new and will change nothing.

Do you not see that? SI cracked this thing up to be a big deal and it isn't? You do see that, right? I mean, they may as well have put on the cover "WE'VE LANDED ON THE MOON!"

[cherokeebrewer]

If you just took the casual marijuana use alone you might have a point. If these same allegations were made against the OU program and were true I would be very disappointed in our athletic department.

Well, I'm sorry you're so upset, but the truth is...alcohol abuse has killed far more kids/people than pot and alcohol is legal. Don't get me started on prescription drug abuse. As I said, some hypocrisy in there somewhere.

[FaninAma]

Great, "the everybody does it so it's fine" excuse. So, if colleges should just ignore marijuana use among their student population what other behavior should they ignore?

Alcohol? Other recreational drugs? Prostitution rings?

I think the point this article was trying to make is that OSU turned a blind eye toward very innappropriate behavior among a segment of their student body. IOW, they were shirking their responsibility as mentors and educators to help their student athletes make good decisions. It is not somewhere where I would want my kids to go and the reason why it is such an embarrassment to the entire University.

[jkjsooner]

Artrell Woods interview

http://kieransteckley.com/exclusive-artrell-woods-interview/

I remember that weight lifting accident. I didn't know that he was released from scholarship. That itself is sickening.

No wonder the dude has a bone to pick with OSU. He should...

[FaninAma]

Well, I'm sorry you're so upset, but the truth is...alcohol abuse has killed far more kids/people than pot and alcohol is legal. Don't get me started on prescription drug abuse. As I said, some hypocrisy in there somewhere.
Wheredid I defend alcohol abuse? You are trying to set up the strawman argument that alcohol abuse is bad so we should just ignore the use of marijuana among college students. It is a weak argument.

I fully support Boren's campus alcohol policy at OU. It should go without saying that the prohibition on marijuana is even more agressively enforced.

Winkng and nodding at this behavior is not sending the right signal.

[8timechamps]

When it comes to marijuana, I cannot believe that the same people that are crying foul over tobacco use seem to be OK with the rise in marijuana. Oh, we'll tax it. Oh, it'll be regulated. Oh, it won't be allowed in public. Oh, we'll have laws against driving while impaired.

I hope that nobody in my family ever uses marijuana or any other illegal drug. And I hope it stays illegal.

Badg, you should really do some research on the medicinal benefits of Marijuana. I do not use it, but I live in a state that has legalized it for recreational use, and I voted to pass the bill that made it legal.

There are so many crazy myths about Marijuana, that most people just assume it's like all other illegal drugs. It's not. Again, I haven't smoked it since I was in college many years ago, and I am against the use by adolescents. However, if you really take the time to understand the substance, you'll quickly learn that alcohol is 1)far more addictive, and 2) causes more damage (both physically and socially).

It's not going to stay illegal for long. People, like CNN's own Dr. Sanjay Gupta, that were once so adamantly opposed to it, are doing the research and learning the truth.

If I were in a situation that I could benefit from the use of Marijuana, I wouldn't think twice about using it.

[cherokeebrewer]

Wheredid I defend alcohol abuse? You are trying to set up the strawman argument that alcohol abuse is bad so we should just ignore the use of marijuana among college students. It is a weak argument.I fully support Boren's campus alcohol policy at OU. It should go without saying that the prohibition on marijuana is even more agressively enforced.

Winkng and nodding at this behavior is not sending the right signal.

I'm not arguing and I didn't say any of that stuff...

[badger]

I know I'm uncool and old and I get that. I'm *that* person, the one that drank communion wine and no other alcohol till she turned 21, the one that get sick at the slightest smell of cigarette smoke, that gets nervous when the driver's going 10 over the speed limit and gunning through yellow/red lights.

I just bring that up to let you all know that I'm not going have my mind changed on this ever, because I am just wired to be the most uncool adult ever. Baby baj can barely talk and she's already saying as much on a daily basis, usually around bedtime.

[jkjsooner]

Then you are a **** poor parent and stupid. Idiots who use marijuana almost always abuse other drugs.

The stats do not at all back up this claim.

For example:

41% of the population has tried weed.
15% of the population has used cocaine - the second most common drug.

Most of the people I know tried marijuana or smoked it occasionally (very rarely) while in college or right after college. Only one of them ever did harder drugs.

It's true that kids usually smoke marijuana first. They also drink caffeine first as well. Neither caused them to use harder drugs. Of course you have an indifference to laws and that indifference might show a statistical correlation between marijuana and harder drugs. That doesn't mean marijuana use influenced them to try harder drugs.

Anyway, you are totall full

[jkjsooner]

I fully support Boren's campus alcohol policy at OU.

I didn't know the policy until I looked it up. Ridiculous. A 21 year old student should be allowed to have alcohol in his dorm fridge. I did and I only did it when I turned 21. It wasn't against the rules in the early '90s as long as you lived on an upperclass floor and you were 21.

Boren needs to treat students as adults. If they can legally possess alcohol then they should be able to do it in their dorm room. He's just begging kids to live off campus with stupid policies like that.

He's also begging them to go out to bars rather than have a beer with friends...

[badger]

You didn't know about the policy, so I have to assume that you also didn't know what started the policy.

In 2004, an OU student died due to alcohol poisoning. (http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2004/12/blake_adam_hamm.html)

[8timechamps]

I know I'm uncool and old and I get that. I'm *that* person, the one that drank communion wine and no other alcohol till she turned 21, the one that get sick at the slightest smell of cigarette smoke, that gets nervous when the driver's going 10 over the speed limit and gunning through yellow/red lights.

I just bring that up to let you all know that I'm not going have my mind changed on this ever, because I am just wired to be the most uncool adult ever. Baby baj can barely talk and she's already saying as much on a daily basis, usually around bedtime.

This has nothing to do with being "cool". Trust me, I grew up a church going kid, and continue to attend as an adult. I rarely drink, and if I do, I NEVER drive. This isn't about allowing 16 or 17 year old kids to get high whenever they feel like it. This is about a substance that has been labeled as something it's not. I liken it to the prohibition era. We've all been told so many times over the years that Marijuana is the same as crack or heroin. We all were wired to believe it's a gateway drug, and only losers use it. That's simply not true.

I didn't vote to legalize it because I want to smoke it whenever I feel like it. I voted to legalize it because of two reasons, 1) If I ever need it for medical reasons, I want to be able to get it without going through some back alley dealer, and 2) It's no different than alcohol. If we allow alcohol use in our society, even with the negatives we know exists, then we should allow Marijuana. Like I said, I don't have a need to smoke it (or eat it), but I don't like the government making that decision for me.

The laws, as they relate to alcohol use, should be the same for Marijuana use. If you (not you specifically, "you" in general) are okay with how we regulate and govern alcohol use in our society, but are completely against Marijuana use, then you simply haven't educated yourself enough.

[achiro]

The argument isn't whether or not it should be legal, that is a different topic all together. The FACT is that it is not. There are laws and school policies against it's use. If the article is true it is, and should be, a big deal. People seem to have just skipped over the part about coke parties and dealers. I am not sure if any of the stuff written is true but if it is, it should sicken us all. I am blown away at how quickly folks are jumping on the, "errbody does it" wagon.

[jkjsooner]

You didn't know about the policy, so I have to assume that you also didn't know what started the policy.

In 2004, an OU student died due to alcohol poisoning. (http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2004/12/blake_adam_hamm.html)

That's not the first time someone has died of alcohol poisoning at OU and it won't be the last.

Come down hard on fraternities that are serving minors. Come down hard on any hazing involving alcohol.

Don't keep a 21 year old student from being able to consume alcohol at his place of residence.

Policies like this just push students to live off campus where they can be the adults that they are.

[jkjsooner]

The argument isn't whether or not it should be legal, that is a different topic all together. The FACT is that it is not. There are laws and school policies against it's use. If the article is true it is, and should be, a big deal. People seem to have just skipped over the part about coke parties and dealers. I am not sure if any of the stuff written is true but if it is, it should sicken us all. I am blown away at how quickly folks are jumping on the, "errbody does it" wagon.

I didn't read much into the part on drugs. I lost interest in it.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is excusing the actions of the players. It's just that it's hard to hold OSU accountable for something that goes on everywhere.

Frankly I think all university's athletic department's drug monitoring policies must be totally rigged. There's just no way so few guys are held accountable.

That being said, the part about the payments is very serious and I'm not willing to just excuse it.

[badger]

I agree that the "errbody does it" argument leads to lower standards, accountability and trouble.

As noted in another thread, Mack's postgame locker room speech was basically ho hum, we lost (I saw it on the Longhorn Network last night). He might as well have been saying "Losing? Errbody does it."

Let's hold our beloved students and student-athletes and the university and coaches overseeing them to higher standards.

[cherokeebrewer]

Let's hold our beloved students and student-athletes and the university and coaches overseeing them to higher standards.

Now I could get behind that! I almost said I'll drink to that, but it didn't sound right.

[MsProudSooner]

It's just that it's hard to hold OSU accountable for something that goes on everywhere.

No, it's not. Until it's legal, the players are breaking the law. Until it's not a banned substance by the NCAA, the coaches and Athletic Department have an obligation to enforce the rules.

I don't have any strong feelings one way or another on the issue of whether MJ should be legal or not. That's not the issue. The issue is an Athletic Department and coaching staff that is abdicating their responsibility.

[Landthief 1972]

Then you are a **** poor parent and stupid. Idiots who use alcohol almost always abuse other drugs.

FIFY. I guess you're on board with bringing back prohibition? Don't be a hypocrite. The whole gateway drug malarkey has been refuted numerous times, and your experiences at the ER is anecdotal. You probably show your kid the movie "Reefer Madness."

[rock on sooner]

That's not the first time someone has died of alcohol poisoning at OU and it won't be the last.

Come down hard on fraternities that are serving minors. Come down hard on any hazing involving alcohol.

Don't keep a 21 year old student from being able to consume alcohol at his place of residence.

Policies like this just push students to live off campus where they can be the adults that they are.

This is coming from someone who, at 16, knew the local bootleggers
and the whereabouts of who would sell stuff "out the back door".

The issue that I have with alcohol in the dorm fridge of a 21 year old
is said 21 year old most likely would have a number of friends 18 or
19 or 20 who may or may not be able to "hold their liquor". That is
most likely how the alcohol poisonings happen. That said, good point
about driving 21 year olds off campus. So, I guess controlling alcohol
at the University is a good thing, albeit unfair to the young adults. Most
universities/colleges are pretty hard on the fraternities. (My son's house
was forced dry, due to rowdy parties, and monitored closely)

[KantoSooner]

Ah, we're getting closer to the real issues. I am not terribly upset with drug and alcohol use by players. I am more upset by dealing. And I'd be really up in arms if the 'adults' (the coaches, the admin, etc) knew about it and let it go on. It's an oversight issue.
Likewise, I would be less upset by a single player, or even a group of players cheating on a test than I would be by the Tutoring Dept being facilitators. Again, it's an oversight thing. (and I'm stunned by the incidence of cheating that goes on nowadays. Utterly beyond anything anyone dreamed of 30 years ago. I am seriously staring to doubt the value of anyone's degree if they graduated in the last 20 years or so. Does anyone go to school these days to learn anything? Or is it all just about a certificate to go get a job?)
I would not be upset at all if a young lady decided of her free will to sleep with a young man (I simply assume that the young man would be amenable. In my experience the old joke holds true: Women need a reason to sleep with someone, men need a place.) I would be enraged to find out a coach or booster had instigated organized prostitution for recruits.
And, finally, if a player is paid by a booster, that's not in the lines. It's an utterly different matter if the university is orgainzing it.

So far, the SI articles are a bit skinny on linking the staff or institution to any wrong doing with the exception of payments. We'll see but this is starting to feel like two writers who really wanted to blow the roof off ... but didn't have the facts to do so.

[Temujin]

This is one of the weakest attempts to try and bring a program down as I've ever seen. This stuff being reported is pretty dayum weak. For as much as I hate Okie Lite, I hope they sue the pants off of SI.

I'm curious why you say that. Can you explain further?

The reason that I ask is because the drug allegations alone got OU years of probation in the late 80s. OU also got probation for 3 players receiving money through sham jobs. What SI is reporting reveals possible violations that exceed those by a significant measure.

I think that people keep forgetting that eye-witness testimony is actually evidence. It doesn't have to be on paper or a digital artifact. And these aren't just eye-witnesses, some actually admit to partaking in the activities themselves.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the stuff in the SI reports as "no big deal", especially in comparison to what other programs have been punished for.

Anyway, just curious. Maybe I'm the only one thinking that way.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Great, "the everybody does it so it's fine" excuse. So, if colleges should just ignore marijuana use among their student population what other behavior should they ignore?

Alcohol? Other recreational drugs? Prostitution rings?

I think the point this article was trying to make is that OSU turned a blind eye toward very innappropriate behavior among a segment of their student body. IOW, they were shirking their responsibility as mentors and educators to help their student athletes make good decisions. It is not somewhere where I would want my kids to go and the reason why it is such an embarrassment to the entire University.

No, it's not fine...to me. But, it's fine for Bob Stoops and every other coach out there. It's not that they advocate using it. It's just that they give players tons of "second chances" when they are caught messing with it.

Look, wasn't that the rumor around Jaz Reynolds? And, look who's back on the field for us this year: Mr. Jaz Reynolds. Stoops sat Everage one game. He took on Tennessee's dope dealer Lynn McGruder.

The point is, SI is stupid for trying to make this seem like a huge deal. If Stoops and other coaches were regularly kicking guys off the squad for marijuana use/positive drug tests/arrest, it would be a big deal.

But, because they don't - and, we know by now that they damn well won't - what exactly is the point of SI's articles?

It's not "everybody's doing it, so it's okay." It's, "we already know everybody's doing it, SI, so what's your point?"

[8timechamps]

Back on the topic...

As mentioned, the debate about legalization is for another thread. The fact is, it's illegal now, and is a violation of the law.

As Kanto said, I'm not too interested in the use of marijuana by players, but the dealing part...that's a bigger issue altogether. I'm more interested in the specifics of their drug policy and how it was enforced. Also, the part about the S&C listing a masters degree (that he didn't have) is interesting.

[jkjsooner]

This is coming from someone who, at 16, knew the local bootleggers
and the whereabouts of who would sell stuff "out the back door".

I'm not following. Who are you talking about? It sure isn't me.



The issue that I have with alcohol in the dorm fridge of a 21 year old
is said 21 year old most likely would have a number of friends 18 or
19 or 20 who may or may not be able to "hold their liquor".

That's true everywhere - on campus or off campus. Following you line of reasoning we might as well go back to prohibition. Anything else means 21 year olds might give alcohol to those under 21...

I believe the policy when I was in school was that you could have and consume alcohol in your dorm room as long as 1) you lived in an upperclass area; 2) there were no students under 21 living in the room;and 3) no minors under the age of 21 were in the room while alcohol was being consumed.

That seems pretty reasonable to me. It's still more strict than what the law allows but reasonable.

[En_Fuego]

I know I'm uncool and old and I get that. I'm *that* person, the one that drank communion wine and no other alcohol till she turned 21, the one that get sick at the slightest smell of cigarette smoke, that gets nervous when the driver's going 10 over the speed limit and gunning through yellow/red lights.

I just bring that up to let you all know that I'm not going have my mind changed on this ever, because I am just wired to be the most uncool adult ever. Baby baj can barely talk and she's already saying as much on a daily basis, usually around bedtime.

Well I hope and pray baby baj doesn't do anything as mentioned. Im sure your baby makes your day. You seem to have lived a life that most haven't. It just seems like in today's world innocent people die. I commend you on this. But the reality of this is there is no one safe from this. I thank God for my pain addiction and substance abuse from delivering me from that kind of life. I totally understand Austin Box (RIP) ... But there are very many evils out there. Im rambling ..... Just smoked one.... So carry on

[jkjsooner]

I'm curious why you say that. Can you explain further?

The reason that I ask is because the drug allegations alone got OU years of probation in the late 80s.

I don't think we got probation because of anything involving drugs, guns, etc. People confuse the Charles Thompson incident with the probation. The CT incident occurred after the probation had already been announced. It was simply a legal matter and had nothing to do with the NCAA. Same with the shooting and rape.



I think that people keep forgetting that eye-witness testimony is actually evidence.


This I agree with. Much of our past problems were only from eye-witness accounts - and some of them like Hart Lee Dykes were players who played for one of our rivals.


Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the stuff in the SI reports as "no big deal", especially in comparison to what other programs have been punished for.

I think the first part was legit. Too many people saying the same things. I don't care if each individually have credibility issues. Unless they got together to fabricate this story (and it sounds like that can't be the case) then there is a lot of smoke.

The academic part seemed a little weak. There weren't a lot of specifics there. The drug part even weaker.

[8timechamps]

Not sure how, but I missed the second two pages the first time I read today's report. There's certainly a lot of alleged drug use going on. I don't know that any of that is NCAA violations, but if nothing else, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

The first two parts are more than enough to hurt OSU. Even if it's only partially true, it's ugly.

The drug and sex parts are more of a moral issue than an NCAA one.

If you compare these allegations to the one's Miami faced, these seem worse. Miami really only had one whistleblower (Shapiro), with this stuff, there seems to be guys coming out of the woodwork.

[Temujin]

I don't think we got probation because of anything involving drugs, guns, etc. People confuse the Charles Thompson incident with the probation. The CT incident occurred after the probation had already been announced. It was simply a legal matter and had nothing to do with the NCAA. Same with the shooting and rape.



This I agree with. Much of our past problems were only from eye-witness accounts - and some of them like Hart Lee Dykes were players who played for one of our rivals.



I think the first part was legit. Too many people saying the same things. I don't care if each individually have credibility issues. Unless they got together to fabricate this story (and it sounds like that can't be the case) then there is a lot of smoke.

The academic part seemed a little weak. There weren't a lot of specifics there. The drug part even weaker.

I was fairly young when we went under probation, so the details surrounding it are fuzzy to me. But for some reason I thought the drug issue was tied to it. I wonder, though, that when combined with the other issues - money, academics, and whatnot - if it could convince them to go down the road of claiming "lack of institutional control".

The only thing I think that could keep OSU out of trouble is if the witnesses in the matter aren't able to give examples of specific events. And the testimony will likely have to come from multiple sources that can corroborate each instance. At least that's the way it's "supposed" to work.

In my opinion, I think there's way more fodder here to work from than there was with USC and Ohio State to start with, regardless of the quality of the SI writing.

[8timechamps]

I was fairly young when we went under probation, so the details surrounding it are fuzzy to me. But for some reason I thought the drug issue was tied to it. I wonder, though, that when combined with the other issues - money, academics, and whatnot - if it could convince them to go down the road of claiming "lack of institutional control".

The only thing I think that could keep OSU out of trouble is if the witnesses in the matter aren't able to give examples of specific events. And the testimony will likely have to come from multiple sources that can corroborate each instance. At least that's the way it's "supposed" to work.

In my opinion, I think there's way more fodder here to work from than there was with USC and Ohio State to start with, regardless of the quality of the SI writing.

The drug issue (which mainly surrounded Charles Thompson) was part of the "Lack of Institutional Control". More than anything, it was icing on the cake of what the NCAA found.

I agree (about there being more here than there was with tOSU & USC). In fact, I think there's more here than what Miami was being accused of doing. I'm not in Oklahoma, so I don't hear the local media, but I think a lot of Cowboy folks (and a lot of folks listening to the local media there) think there isn't much to this report. Like I said, there is more here than Miami had, and while the NCAA has been very slow to punish the Canes, Miami helped themselves by coming down hard on their same program. OSU would be in a much better position if they quit spending time trying to deflect the issues, and focused on their own internal investigation.

[cleller]

Not worth clicking over to the SI website for this yawnfest anymore.

In the end, I fear it will be the OU crowd having to apologize for Thayer Evans.

[Piware]

Well, the Pokes have been begging/demanding attention for years. Now they have it and I personally believe, even if only some of it is true, they won't even get a slap on the wrist. I could care less. However, I can't help but remember how gleeful their fans have been when we have been under the microscope. Maybe this will shut the "cheating gooners" bs up for a while.

[8timechamps]

Not worth clicking over to the SI website for this yawnfest anymore.

In the end, I fear it will be the OU crowd having to apologize for Thayer Evans.

I don't claim Thayer Evans, do you?

Supposedly, he's an OU fan, but never attended OU. So, unless we have to apologize for every Sooner fan's actions, he's on his own.

I'm still putting my money on Sports Illustrated. Seeing how this story passed both the editor and legal council, I'm thinking there's more to this than just "it goes on everywhere".

[OU_Sooners75]

Not worth clicking over to the SI website for this yawnfest anymore.

In the end, I fear it will be the OU crowd having to apologize for Thayer Evans.

Why do we need to apologize for Thayer Evans? He is not an OU alum.

[OU_Sooners75]

I am willing to bet that SI has some raunchy stuff coming up in the next two releases of this series.

They seem too weak right now to be anything significant.

I wouldn't put it past SI to release actual interview recordings with the ex-OSU players as well. Especially if their publication has them and if they start feeling threatened.

There is no way that the editors and the legal team would allow something that they felt could ruin their publication and media credibility.


What I find the funniest is how all OSU fans are saying SI is nothing more than a sports tabloid anymore. And then groove reference to disgruntled ex writers that lost their jobs with SI...lol

[sooneredaco]

Did he keep using weed after Stoops gave him a second chance? Did he sell weed after coming to OU? That's a nice feel-good story but it has nothing to do with what has been going on at OSU.

BTW, what is OU's alcohol policy on campus? Why is that?

Those who claim marijuana use , especially among college kids, is harmless are totally ****ing clueless.

If your college-aged kid was getting high on a regular basis would you be OK with it? If you are then you are a **** poor parent IMO.

But getting drunk on a regular basis is ok? Because more often than not they are doing just that. Oh and great job on being grossly judgmental

[FaninAma]

But getting drunk on a regular basis is ok? Um Kay....
Where did I say that? Again, a specious strawman argument.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/almost-addicted/201301/marijuana-is-all-natural-so-what-s-the-problem

http://www.narconon.org/drug-addiction/marijuana-is-not-harmless.html

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-179264/Cannabis-kills-30-000-year.html

http://www.friendsdrivesober.org/facts_figures/marijuana_and_driving.html

[FaninAma]

Sooneredaco, any parent who would buy marijuana for any child, regardless of age, is a ****-poor parent. If that makes me judgemental then that is a cross I'll just have to bear.

Do you want your kids' schoolbus driver using marijuana? How about the pilot who is flying the next jet your family gets on? If not then why all the effort to make it appear that smoking marijuana is perfectly okay?

BTW, if you are in a custody case with your ex don't ever have a positive urine drug test for cannabis because the court system agrees with me.

High school and college-aged kids shouldn't be given the impression that marijuana (or alcohol) is harmless by those who have supervisory roles over them........college coaches and administrators for instance.

[OUmillenium]

Sooneredaco, any parent who would buy marijuana for any child, regardless of age, is a ****-poor parent. If that makes me judgemental then that is a cross I'll just have to bear.

Do you want your kids' schoolbus driver using marijuana? How about the pilot who is flying the next jet your family gets on? If not then why all the effort to make it appear that smoking marijuana is perfectly okay?

BTW, if you are in a custody case with your ex don't ever have a positive urine drug test for cannabis because the court system agrees with me.

High school and college-aged kids shouldn't be given the impression that marijuana (or alcohol) is harmless by those who have supervisory roles over them........college coaches and administrators for instance.

Overall a great post. Sorry drug users, but facts/consequences must be dealt with whether you want to or not.

[cherokeebrewer]

No one is saying marijuana is harmless and, as is the case with alcohol, poor judgement can and does result in tragedy.

[jkjsooner]

The drug issue (which mainly surrounded Charles Thompson) was part of the "Lack of Institutional Control". More than anything, it was icing on the cake of what the NCAA found.


No it wasn't.

December 17 or 19, 1988 - Probation announced. This included the lack of institutional control charge.
Jan 13, 1989 - Jerry Parks shoots Zarak Peters.
Jan 21, 1989 - The three players rape the girl.
Jan 26, 1989 - Thompson sold cocaine to the undercover agent.
Feb 13, 1989 - Thompson arrested.

These events helped bring down Switzer but the shooting, rape, or drug arrest had nothing to do with the probation of lack of institutional control charge.

http://www.newson6.com/story/10550339/how-the-mighty-fall-barry-switzer

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-20/sports/sp-702_1_3-year-probation

http://oklasoonersblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/history-of-oklahoma-ncaa-major.html

[KantoSooner]

BTW, if you are in a custody case with your ex don't ever have a positive urine drug test for cannabis because the court system agrees with me.

High school and college-aged kids shouldn't be given the impression that marijuana (or alcohol) is harmless by those who have supervisory roles over them........college coaches and administrators for instance.

Also, it's advisable to not be male if you're looking for custody of a minor child. Standards for determining custody have forever been a joke in the legal profession. Look at some of the mom's who got custody and tell me the judge/magistrate did more than glance at the gender box on their driver's license. Our society's biased that way.
Not a standard you'd base a serious argument upon.

And, I'll quote the late, great Richard Pryor on the topic of recreational drugs, "Nobody ever said that **** is good for you." It's illegal today in most states; it'll probably become legal in most in the next decade or so. Why? The same reason that Bloomberg couldn't make soda's illegal in NYC: we still have some respect for personal choice and freedom.

Frankly, I'm neither surprised nor concerned that some players apparently smoked weed. Go to any highschool and do an honest test and you'd come up with something between 1 and 2 in 10 who were positive there as well. And they're not all the 'losers'. The incidence of recreational drug use is far higher than average at places like Harvard, Princeton and Stanford than at 'lesser' schools. So, get over it. You don't take a puff and become an instant zombie. I personally know of a retired Army Colonel, a US Senator and a couple of Representatives, one or two judges and any number of bankers, stock traders and busines people who did or do smoke up. Oh, and that doesn't include the Doctors at places like the Mayo Clinic who liked a bit o' the herb whilst hot tubbing.

What would be an 'issue' is if OSU institutionally condoned drug use or intentionally dumbed down or crippled their testing regime in order to spoof the rules. Yes, it's a bit hypocritical, but there we are.

[mhackl]

So, let's say that there is no smoking gun (no evidence as the Poke fans claim). Does this mean that the articles shouldn't have been published? I would think that the first-hand accounts have to count for something. When you have that many players (60 I think) making these claims, I'd have to conclude that something has to be rotten in the state of Denmark.

If there were sanctions being levied based on what we've heard so far, okay. I get that. However, it's just a story at this point. I guess I just don't understand why Poke fan is so dismissive of these accounts. I would have expected there to be much more concern about the state of their program than simple outrage at the revelations.

[cherokeebrewer]

However, it's just a story at this point. I guess I just don't understand why Poke fan is so dismissive of these accounts. I would have expected there to be much more concern about the state of their program than simple outrage at the revelations.

If the story was about OU, you could likely understand their point of view much better. At this point, it appears to look like a smear campaign...more to come, I guess.

[8timechamps]

Sooneredaco, any parent who would buy marijuana for any child, regardless of age, is a ****-poor parent. If that makes me judgemental then that is a cross I'll just have to bear.

Do you want your kids' schoolbus driver using marijuana? How about the pilot who is flying the next jet your family gets on? If not then why all the effort to make it appear that smoking marijuana is perfectly okay?

BTW, if you are in a custody case with your ex don't ever have a positive urine drug test for cannabis because the court system agrees with me.

High school and college-aged kids shouldn't be given the impression that marijuana (or alcohol) is harmless by those who have supervisory roles over them........college coaches and administrators for instance.

Marijuana use should NEVER be made legal to anyone under the age of 21. That's the bottom line.

As to the rest of your comments, let me ask you, do you want your kids' schoolbus driver using alcohol? Hoe about the pilot who is flying the next jet your family gets on? If not then why do we make it perfectly okay to drink alcohol?

For anyone that's interested, check out the report done by CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta (LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html)). As I've said in previous posts, I personally don't use it, but I find it incredibly hypocritical that our government is okay with alcohol, yet so against marijuana.

[8timechamps]

No it wasn't.

December 17 or 19, 1988 - Probation announced. This included the lack of institutional control charge.
Jan 13, 1989 - Jerry Parks shoots Zarak Peters.
Jan 21, 1989 - The three players rape the girl.
Jan 26, 1989 - Thompson sold cocaine to the undercover agent.
Feb 13, 1989 - Thompson arrested.

These events helped bring down Switzer but the shooting, rape, or drug arrest had nothing to do with the probation of lack of institutional control charge.

http://www.newson6.com/story/10550339/how-the-mighty-fall-barry-switzer

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-20/sports/sp-702_1_3-year-probation

http://oklasoonersblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/history-of-oklahoma-ncaa-major.html

I'm glad you did all of that research. Honestly, I've forgotten more about the details of that time period than I remember.

But now I know who to go to if I have any questions.

[jkjsooner]

I'm glad you did all of that research. Honestly, I've forgotten more about the details of that time period than I remember.

But now I know who to go to if I have any questions.

I don't get why you're so sarcastic. You basically said I wrong. Do you think I'm just going to let that go when I knew I was right?