Intervention in Syria?

[ouwasp]

A couple days ago my daughter mentioned she needed a topic for an "Argument" college class she is in. She said she was thinking of the Syrian situation... and that she was in favor of the US going in. I guess my surface response spoke volumes, because she then said "You don't think that's a good idea, do you?"

I told her I was always in favor of seeing militant Mooslems die in large numbers, but a multifaceted civil war is not the place for the US to become involved. There is no way to win. Especially given our PC values, uncertain rules of engagement, etc. And what American parents need to answer the knock at the door where they meet a couple of soldiers declaring their regret that their 20 yr old son died in combat in Syria? Haven't we had enough of that crap over the past 10+ yrs? What vital US interests are at stake in Syria?.

The horrible images of those nerve gas victims are just that: horrible. And I think that is what was spurring my daughter's desire to see "something" done. But we're not the World's Policeman. And the UN is a paper tiger, everybody knows that. The Arab League? Damned worthless to help in any case.

I heard somewhere that perhaps US cruise missiles were being readied for action against Syrian gov't targets. Does anybody believe their use would really and truly accomplish positive change in Syria? I mean, a weapons depot or two might be blown to smithereens, but would any attitudes be genuinely changed? No way.

Still, there is another side to this argument. There's that word again. I saw a Michael Gerson column in today's TW that endorses some type of intervention... have a look at it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/michael-gerson-in-jordan-a-syrian-refugee-crisis-grows/2013/08/22/32171460-0b61-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html

But I'm still not convinced.

[IGotNoTiming]

We need to let the middle east handle it....

I am tired of our men and women dying for other peoples wars.

[olevetonahill]

Agree with ys , But WE are GOING to stick our nose in no matter .

[rock on sooner]

Saw a report that said the Navy was moving closer to provide
the CIC with options. This battle group is fully equipped...I
sincerely hope that it is done from a distance, if done at all.
Too much sacrifice if there are boots on the ground. If they
try to install a no fly zone, we WILL lose aircraft. Just get
Assad's address and send cruise missiles....

[diverdog]

A couple days ago my daughter mentioned she needed a topic for an "Argument" college class she is in. She said she was thinking of the Syrian situation... and that she was in favor of the US going in. I guess my surface response spoke volumes, because she then said "You don't think that's a good idea, do you?"

I told her I was always in favor of seeing militant Mooslems die in large numbers, but a multifaceted civil war is not the place for the US to become involved. There is no way to win. Especially given our PC values, uncertain rules of engagement, etc. And what American parents need to answer the knock at the door where they meet a couple of soldiers declaring their regret that their 20 yr old son died in combat in Syria? Haven't we had enough of that crap over the past 10+ yrs? What vital US interests are at stake in Syria?.

The horrible images of those nerve gas victims are just that: horrible. And I think that is what was spurring my daughter's desire to see "something" done. But we're not the World's Policeman. And the UN is a paper tiger, everybody knows that. The Arab League? Damned worthless to help in any case.

I heard somewhere that perhaps US cruise missiles were being readied for action against Syrian gov't targets. Does anybody believe their use would really and truly accomplish positive change in Syria? I mean, a weapons depot or two might be blown to smithereens, but would any attitudes be genuinely changed? No way.

Still, there is another side to this argument. There's that word again. I saw a Michael Gerson column in today's TW that endorses some type of intervention... have a look at it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/michael-gerson-in-jordan-a-syrian-refugee-crisis-grows/2013/08/22/32171460-0b61-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html

But I'm still not convinced.

good post wasp!

[Soonerjeepman]

I'll defer to those that have served...

but I concur..tires of OUR soldiers dying for someone else's issues. The ME is so jacked up with the religious overtones etc. I don't think we can win like wasp said due to our PC way of fighting.

I think the PC, brotherly love teachings have given some young folks a false sense of moral obligations...maybe not. It's kind of like foreign aide, rather see the $$ spent here. Just me 2 cents..

[Turd_Ferguson]

You might ask Sappstuff, but from the article he posted it looks like the US is heading that way...

[Curly Bill]

I could give a crap about those people killing each other! We should mind our own business.

[olevetonahill]

I could give a crap about those people killing each other! We should mind our own business.

Ditto.

[rock on sooner]

FWIW, there are four Aegis class missile destroyers in the
region. That class of destroyer carries 56 Tomahawk cruise
missiles, probably enough for Assad, in case he left a forwarding
address.....

[olevetonahill]

We need the Teddy diplomacy at this point
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/walk-softly-and-carry-a-big-stick-bill-cannon.jpg

[rock on sooner]

Is 224 cruise missiles a big enough stick?

[olevetonahill]

Is 224 cruise missiles a big enough stick?

Prolly But wheres the Walk softly? We need to GTF OUT and Dont interfere anymore.

[rock on sooner]

Prolly But wheres the Walk softly? We need to GTF OUT and Dont interfere anymore.

Absolutely no argument here, Vet. Since we are who we are there is NO way
walking softly. IMO, since we can't avoid it, the world needs to accept it.
Turn the entire region to glass, takeover the Suez Canal to keep oil flowing,
simply announce that we are the BBMFWIC and if anyone wants to argue, well,
let's get it on. IMO, it seems like the frickin' world thinks that's who we are, so
why disappointment them? It really ticks me off! Shouldn"t be that way, but
dayum, we could do good ifn the aholes would just pay tention. Again, turn
a certain area to glass, to get their attention, and, maybe, just MAYBE, we could
fix this stuff.

[cleller]

I think the country has no appetite for any Syrian crap right now. Its a moot point because the White House is surely doesn't have the stomach for it.

[rock on sooner]

I think the country has no appetite for any Syrian crap right now. Its a moot point because the White House is surely doesn't have the stomach for it.

You are right as rain...the bummer is we have no choice...U.S. is
damned if we do and damned if we don't...world's only super power,
by default. Don't know the answer, but, gotta do something.....
IMO, take out ALL the bad guys and let nature take it's course,
whatever that is...Aint a right answer anywhere....

[olevetonahill]

I for 1 aint ready fer WW3 which is what would happen. No thanks
Lets stay home and just tell em dont **** with us, sell us oil reasonable and we wont put back to the stone age.

[rock on sooner]

I for 1 aint ready fer WW3 which is what would happen. No thanks
Lets stay home and just tell em dont **** with us, sell us oil reasonable and we wont put back to the stone age.

We both know that "reasonable" aint in the cards, but, I agree, let's
just stay away, and, we both know, that wont happen. WW3, I don't
think so, but it's gonna get nasty. If there's a way to kinda, sorta just
help everyone to get along and peacefully coexist, then lets do that.

But, imo, will never happen. Assad needs to go, Iran needs to be declawed
and Saudi Arabia needs to buy off everyone else, 'cept Israel. Since all
the Arabs want to do away with them, they should be the goriila in the
room...they have been for 2500 years, why change now? Just keep Israel
healthy and happy (and under control), the entire ME can quietly " just
get along". Pipe dream? Yup, but sure would keep our precious treasure
healthy.....just sayin...

[olevetonahill]

We go over there swingin our Nuclear Dicks and Its gonna BE WW3 mark my words the Chinks and the Ruskies will be all over that ****.

[FaninAma]

I actually think the rebels were the ones that used the nerve gas in a desperate attempt to draw the US into the conflict. Assad's forces were winning without using such drastic methods. There is no winning side for the US. We have no vital interest in this country. I just hope Obama doesn't do something stupid to try and prove he is a man of action.

[olevetonahill]

Do we need any other reason to stay OUT? Iran has done WARNED us. I wish they had kept their mouths wrapped up in their towels. Now I wanta go in and Kick their MooSlum asses all over that place

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-army-warns-us-harsh-consequences-over-syria-092109227.html

[SoonerStormchaser]

We need to let the middle east handle it....

I am tired of our men and women dying for other peoples wars.
THIS!
(especially when both sides are POS and committing atrocities against civilians...hell, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that BOTH of them used chemical weapons)

...and I am sick and tired of being deployed...

[olevetonahill]

THIS!
(especially when both sides are POS and committing atrocities against civilians...hell, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that BOTH of them used chemical weapons)

...and I am sick and tired of being deployed...


Caint ya resign ?

[SoonerStormchaser]

Caint ya resign ?

Hell no...and the deployment thing isn't because I get separated from the family. It's the system...from our politicians.

This isn't our fight...plain and simple. This is a proxy war with Iran. Let Isreal take care of it...let Turkey take care of it.

[bluedogok]

It comes down to history, the different Islamic sects are based on tribal history. Those tribes have been fighting each other for centuries and will continue to fight each other for centuries into the future. The only time they seem to "get along" is when there is a totalitarian regime they fear more than the hate they have for the other tribes. They seem to have no conscience when it comes to fighting and will use anything within their means to achieve victory even at the cost of their own people.

Many of our problems in the region stem from not only their hatred of Israel it comes from us being involved in their business and taking sides in tribal conflicts. We need to stay out of those conflicts as they are perpetual and will continue until the end of time. Choosing sides is a no win proposition because it always seems to end badly for whatever side we choose. As

[KantoSooner]

Getting rid of Assad and having an anti-Iran regime in place would be good-ish for us. Not unalloyed good, but good-ish. Call it a 10-15% bump for us.
But it won't be lollypops and rainbows even if that happens.
We'd be better off staying out and spinning the situation to show what even-handed global leaders we are...and urge/fund the Saudi's and Turks and Israeli's to do a LOT of clandestine activity. It's their neighborhood. We can give them imagery, cool toys and money and let them clean up their own mess. (We seem to be doing just that in Jordan).
But, we got mousetrapped making comments about chem weapons. I can understand why Obama made the comments; you simply don't want that crap to become commonplace (that's why the Russians are cooperating, to a degree, with us.) So, now we are kind of forced to do something.
At most, cruise missiles. Take out their command/control structure, take out their runways (all of them) and any military taget of opportunity (are they parking tanks close together? Oh, that's a bad practice when you might not control the sky.)

[lubbocksooner]

There is no one for us to support in my opinion. Both sides are just as bad. Even if we do help one side out they won't be gratefull and will still hate us afterword. Let them work it out between them selves. I hate that someone is using chem weapons but unless we have real proof about who did it then we should not guess. How about we just bomb the crap out of the chem weapon storage and call it good. Make it a fair fight.

[KantoSooner]

I think we have pretty good evidence as to who is using the weapons. They aren't easy to deploy in the form of missiles and the missiles being used (scuds) are not 'stealthy'. Further, I can imagine that we have pretty decent human sources. That being said, after Snowden, the Intel community is going to be very protective of sources and methods for a long while, so they may not want to share the fact that we have agents in place with the general public.

I know, I know, the public has a RIGHT to know the name, address and personal security habits of every clandestine asset we have along with the info on their wives, children and extended family; but the bad old intel community will likely fight release of same to the crusading heroes working in the news media.

I hope we stay out of this one, but, if it's decided that we have to do something, the long distance missile stand off attack is probably the best option.

[FaninAma]

Getting rid of Assad and having an anti-Iran regime in place would be good-ish for us. Not unalloyed good, but good-ish. Call it a 10-15% bump for us.
But it won't be lollypops and rainbows even if that happens.
We'd be better off staying out and spinning the situation to show what even-handed global leaders we are...and urge/fund the Saudi's and Turks and Israeli's to do a LOT of clandestine activity. It's their neighborhood. We can give them imagery, cool toys and money and let them clean up their own mess. (We seem to be doing just that in Jordan).
But, we got mousetrapped making comments about chem weapons. I can understand why Obama made the comments; you simply don't want that crap to become commonplace (that's why the Russians are cooperating, to a degree, with us.) So, now we are kind of forced to do something.
At most, cruise missiles. Take out their command/control structure, take out their runways (all of them) and any military taget of opportunity (are they parking tanks close together? Oh, that's a bad practice when you might not control the sky.)

agreed. Our last counterbalance, Saddam, didn't work out so well. I am tired of doing the House of Saad's **** work for them.

[KantoSooner]

In essence, the mideast is an area that has not had 'good' options for us in forever. Hell, our marine corps and peacetime navy got their start because the bastidges there wouldn't stop pirating our merchant vessels.
So, the game our diplomats and national security team have to play is to keep things kind on a low simmer. We don't want trouble there to spill over into the civilized world, there are convenient trade routes, they've got oil that's strategic at least for our allies and so forth. And we'll do that with whatever tools come to hand. Mubarek is a deeply evil man; a mafia Don running a country. He did keep the Egypt/Israel border quiet for 25 years, though. He had his good points. Saddam, it should not be forgotten, kept the Iranians in check for those ten years when their revolutionary ardor was at its peak. Started reading his own news clippings after that, but we sure as hell didn't want to be playing containment with the Iranians. The Turks and Saudi's are busy trying to influence central Asia...which keeps the Iranians out of play there to a great extent. And, if we play our cards right, Libya's clandestine services might be truly excellent at capturing and extracting information from various black hats in the Islamic world. They seem to play full contact 'ball in that respect.

Just don't hold out any hope that that part of the world will ever truly peaceful in our lifetimes.

[Wishboned]

I for 1 aint ready fer WW3 which is what would happen. No thanks
Lets stay home and just tell em dont **** with us, sell us oil reasonable and we wont put back to the stone age.

Yep. Let someone else get involved, spend all their money on military support, and aid, and in the end it will just be money they flushed down the drain. I don't believe any non Middle Eastern country will ever have any long term influence or advantage in that area.

[rock on sooner]

I think we have pretty good evidence as to who is using the weapons. They aren't easy to deploy in the form of missiles and the missiles being used (scuds) are not 'stealthy'. Further, I can imagine that we have pretty decent human sources. That being said, after Snowden, the Intel community is going to be very protective of sources and methods for a long while, so they may not want to share the fact that we have agents in place with the general public.

I know, I know, the public has a RIGHT to know the name, address and personal security habits of every clandestine asset we have along with the info on their wives, children and extended family; but the bad old intel community will likely fight release of same to the crusading heroes working in the news media.

I hope we stay out of this one, but, if it's decided that we have to do something, the long distance missile stand off attack is probably the best option.

I was under the impression that the nerve gas was in artillery shells,
not Scud missiles. There was a report that the city was under artillery
fire for an extended period of time.

I'm pretty sure that HUMINT is involved. At this stage, we should evacuate
the premises and airmail cruise missiles to Assad's home address, as well
as any forwarding addresses he may have. Because I love and admire our military
folks, I'm really tired of seeing 20 to 29 year old soldiers and marines listed
as KIA .....jus sayin...

[KantoSooner]

You're probably right on the stuff in Damascus. When the earlier attack happened up North a week or two ago (close to Tyre?), it was scuds...and that shouldn't be hard to track. They take, what? 24 hours to fuel and erect?

Still, sarin is transported and loaded as a binary liquid package. I'm not familiar with how you work that in an artillery shell, but I would imagine it requires more than usual care and is harder to cover up.

[FaninAma]

Obama reminds me of the Thomas Hayden Church character in the movie Tombstone during the scene at the OK Corral when Val Kilmer in the role of Doc Holiday winks at him.

in this version of that scene Vladimir Putin is reprising Val Kilmer's role of Doc Holiday and I fear he may goad Obama into doing something stupid in Syria.

[SoonerProphet]

I am tired of doing the House of Saad's **** work for them.

Here, here!

[8timechamps]

The time to intervene has passed. At this point, out involvement will only create more martyrs, and do little to unseat the reigning dictator.

Best case scenario is that we kill Asaad, or drive him from power. Which, would create a cluster-**** in Syria, and most likely lead to a more pro-Muslim state.

It's a lose/lose situation.

Sadly, there are 4 US destroyers that have been re-positioned in the last 24 hours (closer to the coast of Syria). It appears that a Tomahawk strike is imminent.

[soonercruiser]

Is 224 cruise missiles a big enough stick?

THIS^^^^

I have been away, but was just wondering if all the anti-war crowd here will attack Obama for an attack on Syria with the same zeal as they did Booosh.

[soonercruiser]

I actually think the rebels were the ones that used the nerve gas in a desperate attempt to draw the US into the conflict. Assad's forces were winning without using such drastic methods. There is no winning side for the US. We have no vital interest in this country. I just hope Obama doesn't do something stupid to try and prove he is a man of action.

And, I just knew some left winger would come up with this explanation!
Sorry, Assad beat you to it!

[soonercruiser]

Do we need any other reason to stay OUT? Iran has done WARNED us. I wish they had kept their mouths wrapped up in their towels. Now I wanta go in and Kick their MooSlum asses all over that place

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-army-warns-us-harsh-consequences-over-syria-092109227.html

Well Vet....aren't the lefties always using the tactic of "let no crisis go unused"...?
Maybe we can kill several rats with the same poison pill.

[8timechamps]

THIS^^^^

I have been away, but was just wondering if all the anti-war crowd here will attack Obama for an attack on Syria with the same zeal as they did Booosh.


What is the possible benefit to US involvement? I can see none.

[SoonerProphet]

What makes you so sure? Surely such a staunch right-winger such as yourself doesn't buy the hype of the likes of Kerry or Powers. What is the rationale for Assad to attack, especially how the interventionist do-gooder crowd is so anxious to stick their noses in.

[rock on sooner]

Assad is somewhere in between...this mofo is really adept at playing
both sides against the middle. Nothing will happen until/unless HE
is out of the picture. This is the same as Hussein and any other ME
despot that we may or may not have installed in power. I seem to
remember a guiding point in econ about cutting one's losses...wrong
guy in, cut it, do something else, Going forward, I would want a rock
solid address of this guy's location and have it programmed into a fire
control system sitting 201 miles off the appropriate coast, with a really
itchy finger of the PO3 sitting at the console. JUST MHO....

[8timechamps]

Assad is somewhere in between...this mofo is really adept at playing
both sides against the middle. Nothing will happen until/unless HE
is out of the picture. This is the same as Hussein and any other ME
despot that we may or may not have installed in power. I seem to
remember a guiding point in econ about cutting one's losses...wrong
guy in, cut it, do something else, Going forward, I would want a rock
solid address of this guy's location and have it programmed into a fire
control system sitting 201 miles off the appropriate coast, with a really
itchy finger of the PO3 sitting at the console. JUST MHO....

I agree, the world would be a better place without Assad. The problem is, unlike Libya and even Iraq/Afghanistan, there is no clear group to fill the vacuum. Since Syria is already among the world leaders in state sponsored terrorism, what happens if the "wrong" groups takes control. I've thought about it a lot, and I cannot find a US benefit if/when we get involved.

[IGotNoTiming]

The first Iraq war was a mistake, as was Iraq volume 2. Afghanistan was a debacle.... I mean... I almost feel like the next pres should be a general who has served, because he will be the last person to let us go to war for political reasons....

[olevetonahill]

THIS^^^^

I have been away, but was just wondering if all the anti-war crowd here will attack Obama for an attack on Syria with the same zeal as they did Booosh.

I aint ANTI war so much as I am In favor of just staying the **** OUT of that mess

[FaninAma]

And, I just knew some left winger would come up with this explanation!
Sorry, Assad beat you to it!
You think I am a left winger? Then my job here is done.

It wouldn't be the first time there was a false flag operation in this part of the world.

The occurences that are happening now that throw up all kinds of red flags that this may have been a false flag operation are the quick and coordinated public actions and words of the same neocon elements in this country and their European counterparts that are trying to whip up emotion in order to send in our kids and wealth into another ****hole as they have in previous excursions into the area.

[olevetonahill]

And, I just knew some left winger would come up with this explanation!
Sorry, Assad beat you to it!

Fan is a Left winger? You need to find another bottle .

[olevetonahill]

What is the possible benefit to US involvement? I can see none.

EggZackery. WTF ? We need to stay the **** out and let the Dune Coons do what they want .

[FaninAma]

Fan is a Left winger? You need to find another bottle .

Shhhhhh! I like to keep them guessing. LOL.

[olevetonahill]

Shhhhhh! I like to keep them guessing. LOL.

Bro when I read that I spit Beer every where, :black_eyed:

[8timechamps]

The first Iraq war was a mistake, as was Iraq volume 2. Afghanistan was a debacle.... I mean... I almost feel like the next pres should be a general who has served, because he will be the last person to let us go to war for political reasons....

The first gulf war wasn't a mistake. Kuwait was (and remains) a friend to the US as well as a strategic ally. Our mission was to liberate Kuwait. Our mission was extremely successful.

[soonercruiser]

Like I said, I been gone.
So, at my age I only remember the MO of a few of the peeps!

I expect that Obama will say in his upcoming speech on Syria that "....one of the dead bodies in that pile looks like he coulda been my son..."!
:mushroom:

[diverdog]

Bro when I read that I spit Beer every where, :black_eyed:

Me too. That was some funny chit.

[diverdog]

Like I said, I been gone.
So, at my age I only remember the MO of a few of the peeps!

I expect that Obama will say in his upcoming speech on Syria that "....one of the dead bodies in that pile looks like he coulda been my son..."!
:mushroom:

Rehab I assume. Lol

[olevetonahill]

The first gulf war wasn't a mistake. Kuwait was (and remains) a friend to the US as well as a strategic ally. Our mission was to liberate Kuwait. Our mission was extremely successful.

This I agree with. Now lets just get the HELL out of there.!

[olevetonahill]

Rehab I assume. Lol

Ya mite have him confused with an Ex Airline mechanic /accountant.

[8timechamps]

This I agree with. Now lets just get the HELL out of there.!

Absolutely!

You'd think the powers-that-be would've learned a lesson about that region by now. Apparently not.

[olevetonahill]

Absolutely!

You'd think the powers-that-be would've learned a lesson about that region by now. Apparently not.

No one can WIN in that region unless we are willing to Glass em all.

[lubbocksooner]

Still, sarin is transported and loaded as a binary liquid package. I'm not familiar with how you work that in an artillery shell, but I would imagine it requires more than usual care and is harder to cover up.

I believe in arty shells it is mixed and then has a certain "shelf life" It degrades over time but even small amounts that are left will be lethal.

[rock on sooner]

Didja hear what McCain said? He wants to do more than lob a few
cruise missiles. Sez our credibility will be gone if we don't more
than standoff attacks. Dude is a warmonger...we're fortunate that
didn't get in office.

[FaninAma]

McCain is insane. Like what I did there with the rhyming thing?

[rock on sooner]

McCain is insane. Like what I did there with the rhyming thing?

Kewl!

[okie52]

Didja hear what McCain said? He wants to do more than lob a few
cruise missiles. Sez our credibility will be gone if we don't more
than standoff attacks. Dude is a warmonger...we're fortunate that
didn't get in office.


McCain cares more about violating someone else's border than protecting our own.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Assad is somewhere in between...this mofo is really adept at playing
both sides against the middle. Nothing will happen until/unless HE
is out of the picture. This is the same as Hussein and any other ME
despot that we may or may not have installed in power. I seem to
remember a guiding point in econ about cutting one's losses...wrong
guy in, cut it, do something else, Going forward, I would want a rock
solid address of this guy's location and have it programmed into a fire
control system sitting 201 miles off the appropriate coast, with a really
itchy finger of the PO3 sitting at the console. JUST MHO....

The last thing we need is to dethrone a dictator and give Iran another opening to move into the region. Sad to see the gas, but the US public does not want intervention, the military does not, a neither does The Leftist I would guess, tho he mave have backed himself into a corner by his own words...


I hope we don't go Clinton and launch expensive cruise missles at an "aspirin" facility all for show... I would do nothing over that.

[TAFBSooner]

I have been away, but was just wondering if all the anti-war crowd here will attack Obama for an attack on Syria with the same zeal as they did Booosh.

IN.

Maybe there will be more than one senator to vote against a new AUMF. To that end, I'm going to go all Obama Derangement Syndrome on my senators. "You can't let that Muslim Kenyan Socialist put our boys in danger for no compelling US interest!"

Edit - Sen. Coburn shows bouts of rationality; for him I'd better just lay out the case for minding our own business.

[rock on sooner]

The last thing we need is to dethrone a dictator and give Iran another opening to move into the region. Sad to see the gas, but the US public does not want intervention, the military does not, a neither does The Leftist I would guess, tho he mave have backed himself into a corner by his own words...


I hope we don't go Clinton and launch expensive cruise missles at an "aspirin" facility all for show... I would do nothing over that.

I don't believe they can, but, if the Tomahawk cruise could be nuclear tipped,
then we could selectively "glass in" Syria and Iran, thereby solving most of
the ME issues. Hezbollah and some fragments of Al Queda might still be around
but probably wouldn't want to glow in the night. Two carrier battle groups, four
Aegis class missile destroyers and an untold number of cruise missile equipped
subs could do the trick. Then McCain, Cruz, Boehner, Graham and all the other
war hawks would be happy and talk in glowing terms about how the credibility
of the US is intact around the globe.

Oh, I'd a helluva lot rather send "expensive" cruise missiles and drones to do the
work instead of even ONE soldier or marine!!! By default, we are the world's top
cop and are expected to act like it.

Of course, this is hyperbole but Assad REALLY should disappear. If half the news
clips I saw are to be believed, that SOB should roast in hell....jus my opinion...

[bluedogok]

The problem is are the news clip reality or propaganda? Who do we really believe? What is the "truth"?

It wouldn't surprise me if the rebels used chemical weapons against the own people to get the US/UN to knock Asaad out out of power. Both sides have shown the willingness to sacrifice their own for "the greater good" and advancement of their own cause. It is a civil war and one that we have business getting involved in.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Rock, I agree with you on Asad, one mofo that needs to dissapear. But The Leftist is a limped dick arsehole who has no clue what to do whatsoever. The only reason for the "shot across the bow" is because he flapped his gums last year without thinking. Now the UK has castrated him.

Someone with a plan and some balls, would send in a kill team, get close to Asad, put a couple of bullets in him or help someone inside do it and slip away, never to be heard of... That is what needs to happen...

[rock on sooner]

Rock, I agree with you on Asad, one mofo that needs to dissapear. But The Leftist is a limped dick arsehole who has no clue what to do whatsoever. The only reason for the "shot across the bow" is because he flapped his gums last year without thinking. Now the UK has castrated him.

Someone with a plan and some balls, would send in a kill team, get close to Asad, put a couple of bullets in him or help someone inside do it and slip away, never to be heard of... That is what needs to happen...

THA, look back over all my posts on this issue and you'll find a
consistent viewpoint...this...covert approach, a really nasty 50
cal at a 1000 yards...IDM who replaces him, they see the result
and ima guessin they'll toe the line er dayum close to it...gotta
get rid of this creep!

[BigTip]

If any of the people involved over there were on fire, I wouldn't cross the street to **** on them. So I sure don't want to spend millions lobbing cruise missiles in there.

I know I know. We need stability in the region to keep the oil coming and save Israel.
If the EPA and all the enviro nazis would lighten up and let us get our own oil, that problem is solved.
And why don't we just pay to move everyone in Israel to say, northern Nevada or Baja California, and let the Arabs have that scrap of rock over there? It sure would be cheaper and easier than this on going problem.

[SoonerorLater]

I can't imagine a more ill-conceived plan. We are just going to bomb them for a few days to teach them a lesson? What can this administration be thinking? We are going to light a fuse that could set off WWIII to go into yet another country where we have no business being?

[REDREX]

I thought we had the UN to take care of these problems ?------------What a worthless organization

[sappstuf]

Take out the Assad regime and the Islamists will take over and that isn't any better for us.

The best we can hope for is a long protracted civil war where neither side gets an upperhand and they are too busy to screw with anyone else.

It does seem to be turning into a proxy war between Sunni and Shia with Iran, Hezbollah which are Shiites backing the Assad government and Saudi Arabia and Sunnis backing the rebels.

Let them kill each other for awhile..

[The Profit]

I agree with Sapp. As bad as Assad is, the clown that takes his place might be worse. I think the best thing is to let Assad keep thinking he is going to be bombed. I wish that this nation would have been as cautious about going to war prior to the debacle in Iraq as it is now.

[pphilfran]

I agree with Sapp. As bad as Assad is, the clown that takes his place might be worse. I think the best thing is to let Assad keep thinking he is going to be bombed. I wish that this nation would have been as cautious about going to war prior to the debacle in Iraq as it is now.

How have you been? Long time....

[soonercruiser]

I can't imagine a more ill-conceived plan. We are just going to bomb them for a few days to teach them a lesson? What can this administration be thinking? We are going to light a fuse that could set off WWIII to go into yet another country where we have no business being?

According to John Kerry, as seen on TV today, the credibility of the U.S. and President are at stake.
It's all about "Him"!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/obama-malignant-narcissism.jpg

[olevetonahill]

I agree with Sapp. As bad as Assad is, the clown that takes his place might be worse. I think the best thing is to let Assad keep thinking he is going to be bombed. I wish that this nation would have been as cautious about going to war prior to the debacle in Iraq as it is now.

We went into Iraq an Afgan right after 9-11 with full congressional approval and prolly 90% Approval by the People.
Right now Most all of us are sick and tired of that part of the world and couldnt care less how many of their own they kill.

[diverdog]

Take out the Assad regime and the Islamists will take over and that isn't any better for us.

The best we can hope for is a long protracted civil war where neither side gets an upperhand and they are too busy to screw with anyone else.

It does seem to be turning into a proxy war between Sunni and Shia with Iran, Hezbollah which are Shiites backing the Assad government and Saudi Arabia and Sunnis backing the rebels.

Let them kill each other for awhile..

this!

I do not think people realize that Assad has been a protector of sorts to Syrian Christians. If memory serves me correctly his Secretary of Defense at one time was a Christian. As bad as it sounds Assad is actually the lesser of two evils in this case.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/syrian-christians-bashar-assad_n_1521597.html

[diverdog]

We went into Iraq an Afgan right after 9-11 with full congressional approval and prolly 90% Approval by the People.
Right now Most all of us are sick and tired of that part of the world and couldnt care less how many of their own they kill.

We did not go into Iraq with full congressional support. A majority of Democrats in the House did not support military action. The Senate vote by Dems was more in favor but it was far from unanimous. I believe they voted yea based on bad intelligence.

Other than that your point is taken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

[sappstuf]

this!

I do not think people realize that Assad has been a protector of sorts to Syrian Christians. If memory serves me correctly his Secretary of Defense at one time was a Christian. As bad as it sounds Assad is actually the lesser of two evils in this case.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/syrian-christians-bashar-assad_n_1521597.html

He was a Christian and that was no accident. Assad has pretty much left them alone and they support him. The Christians, Druze and Allawites will all be wiped out if Assad is overthrown by the Islamists.

[sappstuf]

We did not go into Iraq with full congressional support. A majority of Democrats in the House did not support military action. The Senate vote by Dems was more in favor but it was far from unanimous. I believe they voted yea based on bad intelligence.

Other than that your point is taken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

That is a lot of bluster for 'Yes, Bush did have congressional support'... ;)

Bush also had a coalition of 12 countries to go into Iraq.

Obama has... France.

Smart power.

[diverdog]

That is a lot of bluster for 'Yes, Bush did have congressional support'... ;)

Bush also had a coalition of 12 countries to go into Iraq.

Obama has... France.

Smart power.

I think we are weighing apples to oranges. Bush also had 9/11.

Me thinks the best move here is to arm both sides. Let them kill each other in a civil/proxy war and we make a profit.

I wish I had the where with all to go to court and file an injunction against Obama. I am sick and tired of US Presidents using our military as pawns in their Game of Thrones. In leu of that maybe we need to defund the military so these options are not available to them.

BTW if he attacks Syria I am done with the man.

[soonercruiser]

We did not go into Iraq with full congressional support. A majority of Democrats in the House did not support military action. The Senate vote by Dems was more in favor but it was far from unanimous. I believe they voted yea based on bad intelligence.

Other than that your point is taken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

Come on Diver! Be honest!
You know that the left always uses the term "bipartisan support" any time they even get one Repug vote.
I predict the house will vote "NO"!
And the President will use this as an "out".
OBammy's just looking for a good excuse to use.
GUTLESS!

[soonercruiser]

That is a lot of bluster for 'Yes, Bush did have congressional support'... ;)

Bush also had a coalition of 12 countries to go into Iraq.

Obama has... France.

Smart power.

BTW, the latest news is that even the French Parliament will get to vote on it!
OBammy may be alone on this one!
Maybe he'll even strap on a missle and go himself....not!
(No golf courses!)

[SoonerorLater]

That is a lot of bluster for 'Yes, Bush did have congressional support'... ;)

Bush also had a coalition of 12 countries to go into Iraq.

Obama has... France.

Smart power.


"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." —Norman Schwartzkopf

[diverdog]

Come on Diver! Be honest!
You know that the left always uses the term "bipartisan support" any time they even get one Repug vote.
I predict the house will vote "NO"!
And the President will use this as an "out".
OBammy's just looking for a good excuse to use.
GUTLESS!

He got their support based on misinformation and maybe outright lies.

[yermom]

i like the oatmeal's take on it:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/syria/syria.png

[pphilfran]

And Congress is still on recess....priorities....

[sappstuf]

And Congress is still on recess....priorities....

I don't blame Congress one bit. If I heard this statement from the President, I wouldn't rush back either..


"Our capacity to execute this mission is not time-sensitive," Obama said. "It will be effective tomorrow or next week or one month from now, and I am prepared to give that order."

[REDREX]

France will bring its newest weapon----- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QGG6X5w8qs&list=RD39GTVLhZ4ZYmE

[pphilfran]

I don't blame Congress one bit. If I heard this statement from the President, I wouldn't rush back either..

I don't know which group is more incompetent....

Where are you living now?

[sappstuf]

I don't know which group is more incompetent....

Where are you living now?

The family is living up in Italy. I am not.

http://www.hazegray.org/images/haze01.jpg

[pphilfran]

The family is living up in Italy. I am not.

http://www.hazegray.org/images/haze01.jpg

I thought you were in Italy...be safe

[cleller]

So I read that Obama's whole team of advisers wanted to go ahead with a strike, but Obama decided to due the Congress thing.
Does that mean he has no balls, because he was afraid to strike, or DOES have balls because he overruled his advisers?

I think he just can't make decisions.

[The Profit]

Doing great. I've been way too busy for my age. I'll give you a call the next time I come to Lawton, and we'll grab lunch.

[The Profit]

Vet, we invaded Iraq because GWB used the inherent patriotism of Americans after 9/11 and then formulated a series of lies to tie Saddam Hussein to Al Qaida. Atta never met with Iraqi, there were no WMD's, and there was no chance of a "mushroom cloud." I agree that we need to stay out of Korea, just like I believe we should have never invaded Iraq. Every war this nation has been involved in since WWII was senseless participation on our part. It was the Republican President, Dwight Eisenhower, who warned this nation about the military industrial complex as he was leaving office. He said it would drain our treasury,, and it has.

[pphilfran]

Doing great. I've been way too busy for my age. I'll give you a call the next time I come to Lawton, and we'll grab lunch.

Sounds good...same boat here....my part time business has turned into a time and a half business...

[FaninAma]

Vet, we invaded Iraq because GWB used the inherent patriotism of Americans after 9/11 and then formulated a series of lies to tie Saddam Hussein to Al Qaida. Atta never met with Iraqi, there were no WMD's, and there was no chance of a "mushroom cloud." I agree that we need to stay out of Korea, just like I believe we should have never invaded Iraq. Every war this nation has been involved in since WWII was senseless participation on our part. It was the Republican President, Dwight Eisenhower, who warned this nation about the military industrial complex as he was leaving office. He said it would drain our treasury,, and it has.

Patriotism, as are all emotions, is a dangerous thing when one allows others with agendas to manipulate you through your patriotism.

[soonercruiser]

I don't blame Congress one bit. If I heard this statement from the President, I wouldn't rush back either..


"Our capacity to execute this mission is not time-sensitive," Obama said. "It will be effective tomorrow or next week or one month from now, and I am prepared to give that order.

This type of rhetoric from Obama just piles on the evidence that his is totally incompetent!

Anyone who knows anything about military strategy knows that the longer we wait the less "real damage" that we can do to Syria's overall war making capability.
Obama is insane; or just wants to start WW III!

[soonercruiser]

So I read that Obama's whole team of advisers wanted to go ahead with a strike, but Obama decided to due the Congress thing.
Does that mean he has no balls, because he was afraid to strike, or DOES have balls because he overruled his advisers?

I think he just can't make decisions.

His strategy is now to pull along some of Congress, to share the blame when this all goes sour.

[soonercruiser]

Vet, we invaded Iraq because GWB used the inherent patriotism of Americans after 9/11 and then formulated a series of lies to tie Saddam Hussein to Al Qaida. Atta never met with Iraqi, there were no WMD's, and there was no chance of a "mushroom cloud." I agree that we need to stay out of Korea, just like I believe we should have never invaded Iraq. Every war this nation has been involved in since WWII was senseless participation on our part. It was the Republican President, Dwight Eisenhower, who warned this nation about the military industrial complex as he was leaving office. He said it would drain our treasury,, and it has.

The military budget has been cut significantly in recent years.
Now, we don't even have a carrier in the Mediterranean. We will have to use "stand off" weapons!
What is truly the biggest liability, and growing deficit problem for the country??? Get real!
It's Social Programs!
At least the country gets some great things for the military dollar!

[KantoSooner]

If we use any weapons at all, I'd opt for stand off weapons. No way do I want any aircrew being paraded around Damascus.

[SoonerProphet]

"Significant" cuts in military spending sounds like bullsh!t, don't think our pols know how to cut spending.

[KantoSooner]

mostly cuts in the rate of growth. If to the point where it doesn't match inflation, then that might be construed as a 'cut' over time. You'd have to parse things pretty closely to get there, though.

[REDREX]

Obama is showing how weak he is as a leader

[TAFBSooner]

Obama speech:

Barely a mention of the Russian plan to sequester and destroy Assad's war gas? WTF?

I think they (Washington) want to go ahead no matter what. Hell. No.

[rock on sooner]

Started another thread on this...check it out. I agree with no,
but if we do, not halfway!

[8timechamps]

Obama speech:

Barely a mention of the Russian plan to sequester and destroy Assad's war gas? WTF?

I think they (Washington) want to go ahead no matter what. Hell. No.

It was more of a footnote. Hell, at one point, I was expecting him to say the strike was already underway.

Like I said in another thread, this administration is in too deep with this. Given how weak their foreign policy has been (and they know it), it's just a matter of time until a strike happens.

[soonercruiser]

Just heard a "HOT NEWS" story that Vlad Putin had directly addressed the American public on a possible attack on Syria....warning us, via an Op Ed in the NYTimes!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-11/vladimir-putin-addresses-america-nyt-op-ed-calls-caution-Syria

But, sounds like a "defense" of "status quo" in Syria.
And, buried inside Putin gives a little justification for any country to have weapons of mass destruction.
Let alone some optimism that the UN has any shred of credibility left at all!

Boy! Is the world a mess!
:grumpy:

[FaninAma]

Soonercruiser, thanks for the link. That was a fascinating read. Engaging in conjecture I think Putin has layed out how this thing is going to play out. I really think Vlad hates radical muslims, especially of the Chechnya variety, and is developing a plan to fight them using various proxy agents like Assad.