Manning sentenced..

[rock on sooner]

to 35 years on convictions of 20 of 22 charges. Enough? Too much?
Not enough? Discuss...

[olevetonahill]

to 35 years on convictions of 20 of 22 charges. Enough? Too much?
Not enough? Discuss...

Not sure. But If I understand Federal sentencing If the Military does that. He will have to serve 85% which is Just under 30 years.

[rock on sooner]

I think he's getting credit for time served, which is around
3 years or so.

[sooner_born_1960]

Judge Colonel Denise Lind sentenced the 25-year-old former low-level intelligence analyst to less time behind bars than the 60 years military prosecutors had sought, and said Manning could be eligible for parole in about a decade, after serving one-third of his prison term.

[KantoSooner]

Sentencing is fascinating. Manning gets 35 and will have to spend at least another 27 or so behind bars. In some states, you can get less for Murder 1.
It kind of reminds me of Magic 8 Ball.

Oh, well, for Manning, jail will likely be heaven on earth.

[sooner_born_1960]

It's like KantoSooner didn't even read my previous post.

[olevetonahill]

It's like KantoSooner didn't even read my previous post.

:surprise: Then the sentence is too easy as far as Im concerned .

[SoonerStormchaser]

Not happy about it...but alas, it's above my pay grade.

[SicEmBaylor]

Not happy about it...but alas, it's above my pay grade.

Thank God.

Manning gets a worse sentence than those responsible for the criminal acts he brought to light. Pitiful. A discharge is the worse thing he deserved, but his actions were righteous.

[rock on sooner]

Thank God.

Manning gets a worse sentence than those responsible for the criminal acts he brought to light. Pitiful. A discharge is the worse thing he deserved, but his actions were righteous.

If you feel that way about Manning, I'm guessing you think
Snowden deserves the Medal of Freedom.

[olevetonahill]

If you feel that way about Manning, I'm guessing you think
Snowden deserves the Medal of Freedom.

Sic em and I disagree Totally I think they both should be stood in front of a ****ing firing squad .

Hers from one article I just read, The best thing about this being Over is that little **** sucker will be out of MY Uniform.


With good behavior and credit for the more than three years he has been held, Manning could be out in about 6 ½ years, according to his defense attorney David Coombs.

Coombs told a press conference at a nearby hotel that early next week he'll file, through the Army, a request that the president pardon the soldier "or at the very least commute" the sentence to time already served.

"The time to end Brad's suffering is now," Coombs said. "The time for our president to focus on protecting whistleblowers instead of punishing them is now."

[rock on sooner]

I believe at the absolute minimum, it should be life without
parole for both. For anyone to think a low level 20 something
analyst should decide what is not classified is insanity. Snowden's
only qualification is that he is a computer geek...both these creeps
have put lives in danger and caused harm as yet revealed. Life
in prison is expensive but capital punishment is far more so, due
to the legal system. I had hoped that Manning would get the maximum,
so he would never see the light of day. Snowden runs a real risk of
brake failure or a fall down twenty flights of steps or some such....

[SoonerBBall]

Sic em and I disagree Totally I think they both should be stood in front of a ****ing firing squad .

Hers from one article I just read, The best thing about this being Over is that little **** sucker will be out of MY Uniform.

What a bunch of bullsh*t. You really must love the government a lot, since they are the ones pissed about this and the Snowden incidents. Manning and Snowden did what was best for our country, not what was best for the government. Big difference. Both should be covered by whistle blower laws.

[SicEmBaylor]

If you feel that way about Manning, I'm guessing you think
Snowden deserves the Medal of Freedom.

Yes he does.

[SicEmBaylor]

What a bunch of bullsh*t. You really must love the government a lot, since they are the ones pissed about this and the Snowden incidents. Manning and Snowden did what was best for our country, not what was best for the government. Big difference. Both should be covered by whistle blower laws.

Correct.

The only criminal activity here is the criminal activity perpetuated by our own government that was exposed by these individuals. Their "crimes" pale in comparison to the crimes committed by our own government.

[olevetonahill]

What a bunch of bullsh*t. You really must love the government a lot, since they are the ones pissed about this and the Snowden incidents. Manning and Snowden did what was best for our country, not what was best for the government. Big difference. Both should be covered by whistle blower laws.


Correct.

The only criminal activity here is the criminal activity perpetuated by our own government that was exposed by these individuals. Their "crimes" pale in comparison to the crimes committed by our own government.

Both Yall are ignorant IMHO

For One thing I distrust this Gov. Moren any of you Prolly. Manning Swore allegiance to this Country when he was sworn in the Army. He **** on that Oath **** him. Snowden to the Oath of Secrecy He **** on that Oath **** him

There prolly was a way both could have done some good But the way they went about their little BS as Rock said Put a Lot of lives in danger

Sic If you are really taking that stand then I might suggest you change your Sig Flag Because they BOTH chose "Dishonor"

[KantoSooner]

It's like KantoSooner didn't even read my previous post.

You're right, I hadn't. I mentally elided over it. My bad.

[SicEmBaylor]

Both Yall are ignorant IMHO

For One thing I distrust this Gov. Moren any of you Prolly. Manning Swore allegiance to this Country when he was sworn in the Army. He **** on that Oath **** him. Snowden to the Oath of Secrecy He **** on that Oath **** him

There prolly was a way both could have done some good But the way they went about their little BS as Rock said Put a Lot of lives in danger

Sic If you are really taking that stand then I might suggest you change your Sig Flag Because they BOTH chose "Dishonor"

Vet, I mean this with all due respect, you're as ignorant as they come on these issues. Neither Manning nor Snowden have put a single life in danger. Not a single one. Secondly, Manning took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States which is exactly what he did. Snowden's leaked information is entirely within the realm of illegal DOMESTIC spying without a warrant and has mostly to do with data mining meta-information....in no way could that possibly put a single life in danger.

Now, oath or not, when an individual sees blatant unconstitutional and illegal actions being taken by our government they have a duty and obligation to speak out. My assumption is that you would have been one of those guys in Nazi Germany after the war claiming, "I was just following orders!"

[rock on sooner]

Interesting..."not a single life in danger". How does that square with
highlighting one of the methods used to track terrorist movement/
communication? How does that square with inflaming anti American
activity in foreign countries? Storming embassies, assaulting American
tourists, kidnapping American journalists is not putting lives in danger?
Sorry, SicEm, ignorance is bliss and you truly are blissful.

[SicEmBaylor]

Interesting..."not a single life in danger". How does that square with
highlighting one of the methods used to track terrorist movement/
communication? How does that square with inflaming anti American
activity in foreign countries? Storming embassies, assaulting American
tourists, kidnapping American journalists is not putting lives in danger?
Sorry, SicEm, ignorance is bliss and you truly are blissful.

Find me a single shred of evidence to support the fact that any information that has been leaked has put anyone in danger. A single shred. Everything you have said is nothing but pure conjecture.

[SicEmBaylor]

The closest you could possibly come is pointing to the leaked diplomatic cables by Manning which helped tip off the 'Arab Spring'. My point there is 1)The people have a right to know how foreign policy is conducted on their behalf 2)That knowledge gained by our citizens trumps any effect it may have on foreign nations 3)That point is negated by the fact that our government ended up supporting the Arab Spring.

[olevetonahill]

Vet, I mean this with all due respect, you're as ignorant as they come on these issues. Neither Manning nor Snowden have put a single life in danger. Not a single one. Secondly, Manning took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States which is exactly what he did. Snowden's leaked information is entirely within the realm of illegal DOMESTIC spying without a warrant and has mostly to do with data mining meta-information....in no way could that possibly put a single life in danger.

Now, oath or not, when an individual sees blatant unconstitutional and illegal actions being taken by our government they have a duty and obligation to speak out. My assumption is that you would have been one of those guys in Nazi Germany after the war claiming, "I was just following orders!"

Like I asked you FB. Does the Word Sanctimonious Mean anything to you?
As far as Comparing ME to a Nazi war criminal you my fine young friend can go fornicate with thyself.
You sit around and run you cigar stuffed mouth and Pontificate about things you have absolutely No experience about. When I said Ignorant I was refering to Yalls general thots about Me and My Love of the Gov.

Now Go finish your degree at baylor Im sure If you apply yourselve you can get it done in 4 or 5 years . Maybe Vince Young can be your inspiration.

[KantoSooner]

Just for giggles, Sicem:

1. Do you believe that any activity or document should be secret?

2. Do you believe that any law is worthy of obedience if you personally find it obnoxious?

3. Do you believe that any lawfully constituted chain of command takes precedent over the personal judgement of persons voluntarily working within it?

4. Do you accept the judgement of anyone other than yourself in any area whatsoever, no matter the relative experience and study margin they may enjoy over you?

5. Have you ever worked in an organization or on a team in which you were forced to forego exercise of your personal judgement so as to promote the stabilty of that organization and its ability to work communally?

6. Have you ever had to share anything?

7. Do you, however rarely, have to accept any brake on your own ego?

I think I'm starting to 'get' the Snowden/Manning support phalange's psychology...

[SicEmBaylor]

Just for giggles, Sicem:

1. Do you believe that any activity or document should be secret?
Yes. Should documents that show the government engages in illegal and unconstitutional activities be kept secret? No. Should programs that deny American citizens their constitutional rights be kept secret? No.
2. Do you believe that any law is worthy of obedience if you personally find it obnoxious? There is a difference between a law being "obnoxious" and a law being outright unconstitutional and/or completely unjust. I find the law that my car must be regularly tagged to be "obnoxious" but it isn't unconstitutional and doesn't rise to the level of being unjust.

3. Do you believe that any lawfully constituted chain of command takes precedent over the personal judgement of persons voluntarily working within it? Not necessarily, no. Lawfully constituted isn't the same as lawfully acting.

4. Do you accept the judgement of anyone other than yourself in any area whatsoever, no matter the relative experience and study margin they may enjoy over you?
Absolutely, fortunately these opinions are hardly shared by myself alone. They are shared by others far more credentialed than myself.
5. Have you ever worked in an organization or on a team in which you were forced to forego exercise of your personal judgement so as to promote the stabilty of that organization and its ability to work communally?
Yes, but I've never been asked to participate in a program that denied Americans their constitutional rights without due process. If I had, I would certainly not have participated.
6. Have you ever had to share anything?
Of course but now you're moving into utter irrelevancy.
7. Do you, however rarely, have to accept any brake on your own ego?
....and now you're there.
I think I'm starting to 'get' the Snowden/Manning support phalange's psychology...
I can't say how much you "get."

[FaninAma]

Governments are the worst mass-murderers in the history of mankind. Oh, that's right....we could never get a repressive, tyrannical government here because we are protected by the good government fairy who got a promise personally from Uncle Sam that he would always protect our civil liberties.

[SicEmBaylor]

Governments are the worst mass-murderers in the history of mankind. Oh, that's right....we could never get a repressive, tyrannical government here because we are protected by the good government fairy who got a promise personally from Uncle Sam that he would always protect our civil liberties.

It astounds me that when you have two guys who, essentially, do nothing more than break a non-disclosure agreement to let the public know the government is utterly trampling on their Constitutional rights...everyone focuses on the two guys who blew the whistle instead of on the government that is guilty of major crimes.

It'd be like if you had a guy in the mob who was guilty of petty theft coming forward detailing the years of major crimes committed by the "family" but having everyone focus on the petty theft instead. It astounds me.

I couldn't give a **** if Snowden broke his non-disclosure agreement -- I care a hell of a lot more about the crimes he blew the whistle on.

[rock on sooner]

It saddens me that in the name of "privacy" there are those who
know NOTHING of the work these agencies and humans do in the
name of keeping America safe, but complain loudly that ALL this
should be out front for an uneducated public to say "grace" over.
There are stars on the walls of some of the agencies that represent
human sacrifice in the defense of this country. Unknown for a reason,
but, some want to publicize that. Aldrich Ames is responsible for several of
those stars (fact! SicEm) There are most likely one or two there as
a result of Novak leaking Valerie Plame's identity (along with Libby
and Cheney..Scot-free!) I'm sure, SicEm, you think that is just fine!
If you had served in a capacity other than paint ball wars, you'd feel
differently. My experience in pre-satellite intercept in the USAFSS
allows me some insight, so I feel comfortable in calling you to task.
You know NOT about what you shout, as do many of the elected
representatives screeching the same garbage. You cannot possibly
know why many things are classified, so really, you should, imo, just
stay out of the conversation, because your "bliss" is really showing.

[Blue]

It saddens me that in the name of "privacy" there are those who
know NOTHING of the work these agencies and humans do in the
name of keeping America safe, but complain loudly that ALL this
should be out front for an uneducated public to say "grace" over.
There are stars on the walls of some of the agencies that represent
human sacrifice in the defense of this country. Unknown for a reason,
but, some want to publicize that. Aldrich is responsible for several of
those stars (fact! SicEm) There are most likely one or two there as
a result of Novak leaking Valerie Plame's identity (along with Libby
and Cheney..Scot-free!) I'm sure, SicEm, you think that is just fine!
If you had served in a capacity other than paint ball wars, you'd feel
differently. My experience in pre-satellite intercept in the USAFSS
allows me some insight, so I feel comfortable in calling you to task.
You know NOT about what you shout, as do many of the elected
representatives screeching the same garbage. You cannot possibly
know why many things are classified, so really, you should, imo, just
stay out of the conversation, because you're "bliss" is really showing.

Whoopty damn doo.

I agree with Sicem. The govt is too big and if it means they wont be able to "protect" little ol' me by getting smaller, than so be it. I'll take my chances.

[olevetonahill]

Rock, Im agreeing with you on this. NOTHING manninig NOR snowden did will shrink the Govt. Like Ive said before You are either dumb as dirt , Live under a rock, or was born Last night if you had No clue the Govt. was Listening in on Most every thing we say and or Do.
Giving the Media , therefore the Enemy the Knowledge of HOW we do that WILL put Lives in jeopardy and That Im against,

[SoonerStormchaser]

Get this, the piece of **** now wants to have a SEX CHANGE (per CNN):

Report: WikiLeaks source Bradley Manning intends to begin hormone therapy for a sex change, wants to be referred to as Chelsea.

Please tell me we aren't paying for this **** as taxpayers. I mean, can't we just show up and chop his balls off (like a boss)?

[Wishboned]

Get this, the piece of **** now wants to have a SEX CHANGE (per CNN):


Please tell me we aren't paying for this **** as taxpayers. I mean, can't we just show up and chop his balls off (like a boss)?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/22/convicted-leaker-manning-a-woman/2684009/


Manning will likely serve his sentence at Fort Leavenworth, the only military prison for service members sentenced to 10 or more years, a Military District of Washington spokesperson told The Associated Press. The facility does not provide hormone therapy or sex-reassignment surgery for gender identity issues but does provide psychiatric care, a Fort Leavenworth spokeswoman told Courthouse News.



Even though they don't offer it he could probably file a lawsuit against the prison and the goverment demanding that this therapy be provided.

[KantoSooner]

All Righty Sicem,
Allow me to boil your 'argument' down: What the governemnt is doing is unconstitutional and thus illegal and thus there is no duty to obey any laws that serve to further such activity.
Do I have it about right?

Here's the problem: what the government is doing is not unconstitutional. Sez who? Sez the SCOTUS so far. You have a law, duly enacted by the congress and signed by the president, reviewed by the SCOTUS and deemed permissible. Within these laws are also avenues for registering complaints and concerns.

So, what we have is a series of individuals, all of whom lack any particular position, either in or out of government, to make such judgements, deciding on their own that their own opinions trump those of the rest of their countrymen acting through their representative government. In short, Manning placed himself above the rest of the country.

Now, you or I have every right to our opinions on the constitution. What we don't have is the right to act on those opinions without reference to legal consequences. In this sense, Manning (or now, apparently, 'Chelsea') is far more moral than Snowden - Chelsea's actually accepting the legal fruits of his/her idiocy. If any individual wants to say what the constitution means, they are free to influence debate by writing or speaking. If they want their opinion to have more direct effect, they are well advised to go to law school, later become a judge and then get appointed to a court of review. We do this little dance because not everyone's opinion is of equal value. Some people are morons. And we, as a society, while we are bound to let the morons speak or write, are not bound to accept those moronic opinions as law.

What I 'get' from the comments of Chelsea supporters is arrogance. The proper placement of self outside of society but then that step too far into placing one's views on matters of common interest likewise above the views of all others. And an insistence that actions taken in consonance with those particular views be made binding on the collective whole.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Listen to him Flounder. He's pre-med.

[8timechamps]

If either Snowden or Manning had attempted to share their information with a source that could have dealt with it internally (and I don't want to hear that there wasn't an avenue for them), then I wouldn't have an issue with either of the two. The fact is they choose to go the route of wiki-leaks, knowing the (high) potential for blow-back (read: publicity).

Neither of these fools leaked information to protect us as a people. They leaked information to gain some kind of respect (from whom is subject) or notoriety. Just as the pro-Snowden/Manning folks say "not a single American life was put in danger", I say "Not a single American life was delivered from it".

It may or may not relate to this case and these men, but there is a large amount of information and actions happening behind the scenes that the people of the United States don't know about. There is a reason for this.

Like I said, maybe Snowden/Manning had pure intentions (which I find hard to believe), but if they did they could have delivered the information in a much different way, and to people that could have dealt with it accordingly. They chose a different path, and in my opinion should be punished the maximum allowable amount.

[Curly Bill]

If you feel that way about Manning, I'm guessing you think
Snowden deserves the Medal of Freedom.

I almost do in fact think that!

[Curly Bill]

Both Yall are ignorant IMHO

For One thing I distrust this Gov. Moren any of you Prolly. Manning Swore allegiance to this Country when he was sworn in the Army. He **** on that Oath **** him. Snowden to the Oath of Secrecy He **** on that Oath **** him

There prolly was a way both could have done some good But the way they went about their little BS as Rock said Put a Lot of lives in danger

Sic If you are really taking that stand then I might suggest you change your Sig Flag Because they BOTH chose "Dishonor"

No, he did not! He swore an oath of allegiance to the Constitution!

[Curly Bill]

It saddens me that in the name of "privacy" there are those who
know NOTHING of the work these agencies and humans do in the
name of keeping America safe, but complain loudly that ALL this
should be out front for an uneducated public to say "grace" over.
There are stars on the walls of some of the agencies that represent
human sacrifice in the defense of this country. Unknown for a reason,
but, some want to publicize that. Aldrich Ames is responsible for several of
those stars (fact! SicEm) There are most likely one or two there as
a result of Novak leaking Valerie Plame's identity (along with Libby
and Cheney..Scot-free!) I'm sure, SicEm, you think that is just fine!
If you had served in a capacity other than paint ball wars, you'd feel
differently. My experience in pre-satellite intercept in the USAFSS
allows me some insight, so I feel comfortable in calling you to task.
You know NOT about what you shout, as do many of the elected
representatives screeching the same garbage. You cannot possibly
know why many things are classified, so really, you should, imo, just
stay out of the conversation, because your "bliss" is really showing.

How about me, am I qualified? I had a Top Secret SCI clearance and near the top of my chain of command was the Director of the NSA. When on duty I was on constant standby to be able to get very top level communications, communications of grave national interests, into his hands in a matter of minutes, and that be relayed to the POTUS within minutes as well.

I have no intention of spilling any info that I am familiar with from my time in the military, but I have serious questions as to whether Manning, and most especially Snowden are the bad guys in this scenario.

edit...pre-satellite intercept? That's cute. If I wanted to I could tell you some real stuff.

[olevetonahill]

No, he did not! He swore an oath of allegiance to the Constitution!

Twernt necessarily refering to the Oath of Office when we joined up so much as The Full Intent we had to Defend this Country. The Constitution Is The Country IMHO
Sides I were drunk and Im sure My semantics were way off last night anyways :very_drunk:

[nighttrain12]

That boy/girl ain't right in the head.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/us/bradley-manning/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130822080926-01-bradley-manning-0822-story-top.jpg

[KantoSooner]

Yes, one is driven to wonder what group of trained mice we have running security checks these days. Ye Gods! We have Snowden, the GED/reigning king of on-line gaming on the one hand and 'Chelsea' on the other. Are clearances now delivered in boxes of CrackerJacks?

[rock on sooner]

Yes, one is driven to wonder what group of trained mice we have running security checks these days. Ye Gods! We have Snowden, the GED/reigning king of on-line gaming on the one hand and 'Chelsea' on the other. Are clearances now delivered in boxes of CrackerJacks?

The FBI investigated my background back in the day...they even found
where I bought liquor when I was underage...don't know who does it
now.