Like A Deer Caught In The Headlights Of An Oncoming Truck

[FaninAma]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/08/15/Obama-Not-Informed-Of-Egyptian-Violence-Until-August-15

with an approval rating near 40% and a totally ineffective administration this country is in for a long 3 1/2 years.

[cleller]

No more CNN feed at the White House?

I'll bet he's up to the minute on Jay-Z's newest client lists, though.

[Wishboned]

No more CNN feed at the White House?

I'll bet he's up to the minute on Jay-Z's newest client lists, though.

He's been on vacation! You can't expect the man to keep up with world events when he's hanging out on Martha's Vineyard.

[rock on sooner]

He's been on vacation! You can't expect the man to keep up with world events when he's hanging out on Martha's Vineyard.

You guys rag on Obama all ya want.....W spent more time on vacay than
anyone else ...1020 days,,,35% of the time he was in office...matter of record.

[Curly Bill]

You guys rag on Obama all ya want.....W spent more time on vacay than
anyone else ...1020 days,,,35% of the time he was in office...matter of record.

Most of us on the right admit Bush was a terrible president. Why you lefties think throwing Bush at us is a good defense for your boy continues to astonish me.

[rock on sooner]

CB, no intent to give any kind of defense...Obama has lots of faults
and even more disappointments, but, really, so long as W is in the
books on what you guys roast Obama about, you gotta admit that
it's fair game to bring him into the conversation .....

[Turd_Ferguson]

Obama's cack taste sooooo good.....Mmmmm .....

Figger's...

[rock on sooner]

Figger's...

Okay, TF, how'd you make that post happen? You know damn
good and well that I'd never type that! (Dayum funny, though!)

[olevetonahill]

Okay, TF, how'd you make that post happen? You know damn
good and well that I type that kind of crazy **** all the time ! (Dayum funny, though!)

Well at least yer honest

[rock on sooner]

Well at least yer honest

Wow, you mofo's er gud! Last time I saw that wuz in '67 in
raghead land...broke one nose but still got my azz kicked...

[Wishboned]

You guys rag on Obama all ya want.....W spent more time on vacay than
anyone else ...1020 days,,,35% of the time he was in office...matter of record.

I wasn't ragging on the amount of time he was on vacation. I was ragging on the fact that the leader of a country isn't keeping up with current events while he's on vacation.

[olevetonahill]

Wow, you mofo's er gud! Last time I saw my little dick wuz in '67 in
raghead land...I almost got laid but got my azz kicked instead...

:mushroom:

[rock on sooner]

I wasn't ragging on the amount of time he was on vacation. I was ragging on the fact that the leader of a country isn't keeping up with current events while he's on vacation.

Could well be, Wish, but he's had at least two press briefings since he's
been at the Vineyards and, just guessing, mind you, but bet he's more
up to date than anyone else on the planet...

[Wishboned]

Could well be, Wish, but he's had at least two press briefings since he's
been at the Vineyards and, just guessing, mind you, but bet he's more
up to date than anyone else on the planet...


They must have just left out a few details about Egypt then.

[rock on sooner]

:mushroom:

I surrender...g'nite...

[olevetonahill]

I surrender...g'nite...

Heh. Have a good un Bro

[Curly Bill]

For the record: I'm glad the sumbitch is on vacation. Less likely he'll screw something else up when he's on the golf course.

[cleller]

Could well be, Wish, but he's had at least two press briefings since he's
been at the Vineyards and, just guessing, mind you, but bet he's more
up to date than anyone else on the planet...except on anything that deals with Egypt, Libya, or what constitutes self defense and rule of law in America. He's not big on rodeo, either.

Yuck.

[diverdog]

For the record: I'm glad the sumbitch is on vacation. Less likely he'll screw something else up when he's on the golf course.

Agreed. It is a freaking mess over there and we need to stay out of it.

[FaninAma]

Agreed. It is a freaking mess over there and we need to stay out of it.
If radical Islam is our enemy then at least we have an entity(the Egyptian Army)and a significant part of the country's population who feel the same way. If we can't avoid meddling in the area, which we can't, then at least we have surrogates in that country to shed blood in an effort to stymie radical Islam.

On the other hand, perhaps we do need to get out of the entire region and allow those with regional interests such as China, India and Russia to do all of the heavy lifting in this latest conflict.

[SoonerorLater]

If radical Islam is our enemy then at least we have an entity(the Egyptian Army)and a significant part of the country's population who feel the same way. If we can't avoid meddling in the area, which we can't, then at least we have surrogates in that country to shed blood in an effort to stymie radical Islam.

On the other hand, perhaps we do need to get out of the entire region and allow those with regional interests such as China, India and Russia to do all of the heavy lifting in this latest conflict.


Yes.

[FaninAma]

Actually, a more apt description would be that our fearless President looks like a puppet who has gotten his marionette wires tangled up.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'm perfectly fine with getting out of the ME morrass, but if that's your policy then state it and follow through on it. If you're going to go around acting like you're still king of the world and something happens in a country in your circle of interest, then you should probably have a take on what the outcome should be and try to influence it in some way. If you're out of it then say you're out of it.

Does anybody know what this administration's foreign policy goals are? It's ****ing amateur hour. At least with GWB, you knew that his policy was to kill terr'rusts and shove democracy down the throats of those backwards camel jockeys.

[KantoSooner]

And that's still kind of the policy (more on the terrorist killin' and less on the nation building than W). The problem in Egypt is that they followed the play book and had elections....and the terrorists won. Except the Muslim Brotherhood aren't really terrorists...except sometimes...and they like to hang out with terrorists.
Oh, and they like to get all riled up and form big gangs and go burn down Christian churchs. Which is a difficult thing for any 'Mericun president. Even if the Coptic faith is about as close to Southern Baptist as Hindu Billy's Human Sacrifice Hour.
Worse yet, the bro's proved to have the competence that one would expect of a 'party' that had held power, well, never.

So far, Obama's team is not doing too, too bad in the area. I score it:

Morocco: pretty much okay. Little unrest. Kind of cool King who at least is young enough to have the energy to run a country. And he's vaguely in touch with his subjects. We support them and sort of push for civil rights, especially for girls.

Algeria: taking over the 'adult in the room' role from Egypt. And doing a dandy job of slaughtering the living crap out of AQIM. We slide them beaucoup moolah and arms because they tend to hit what they shoot at. A little push here and there on human rights. But, since we really don't gas about the humans whose rights are being abridged, not too much.

Tunisia: We're supporting their attempt to reassemble some sort of consensus. So far we're kind of 70:30...which probably passes for 'winning' in the Arab world.

Libya: guarded optimism here. Yes, the place is awash with guns, but that wasn't our doing. Oh, we have some guns, but they were doing fine on the gun collecting front long before we came along. Lots of extremists running around and the government has them under control not so much. But, did you really expect them to? We're actually in there batting in the hearts and minds fight and not losing. Give them some time, we've still got a chance.

Egypt: Well, what do you do? Support a despot? Support a duly elected religious party who's roots, at least in part, are deep in the INFIDELS MUST DIE! camp? Even when they start revamping their constitution with rather troublesome disregard for minority rights? How about the military? They're the only 'not bat **** crazy' group in the country, but have a distressing tendency to see of each problem a nail, for which their tanks and guns are conveniently hammers. No good options and never were any. Yeah, we're not looking like the Pros from Dover, but no one else is, either. Not even the locals. It's messed up, as you'd expect a pressure cooker that's been on the stove for 60 years to be. About the best we can hope for is to keep the rope-a-dope up and see what the Egyptians decide to do with/for themselves. If the military really does back out in six months, Egypt might well evolve into one of those states where democratically elected governments are more or less ratified by the military. Kind of like Indonesia. And that can work, at least for a couple of generations.

Jordan: So far Abdullah is doing okay keeping his finger on the pressure release just enough to keep things under control. He needs to keep so form of liberalization going and we're helping him with this. Extremely successful US diplomacy since WWII.

Iraq: Probably needs to go ahead and dissolve. If so, the Kurds will be the ones to ride with.

Saudi: The biggest potential headache around. How do we deal with our support (since the late 19th century) for an unashamedly medieval royal house? And how do you deal, alternatively, with a population who is utterly Wahhabiite and fit solely for rhythmic head nodding while chanting from a holy book broken only by sessions of raping Pakistani boys bought specially for the purpose? Here our diplomacy is working wonders: we continue to get oil and the Saudi's continue to fund people we couldn't get the worst reprobats in our government to agree to fund. About the best any US Pres can hope for here is for it to not blow up on his watch.

Syria: Stay away. Make sympathetic noises. Comfort yourself that the Assad family has been dickheads since forever, so, really, how much worse will it get?

Iran: Possibly the only 'bright spot'. We're at less than zero there already, there's room for improvement. At this stage, you're probably best served trying to get them to go back to their 'historic' role. Stroke their ego in exchange for them starting to play the game again.

Turkey: Most potential for disaster. But we're okay-ish here. Feed their economy, which we're doing. Like China, if they can keep the growth going, the McDonald's and Walmart effect will tend to mellow their people.

Kuwait and the Emirates? Are not even countries. Deal with them as corporate entities. We are. It's working.

Yemen. Strategically located Somalia. Build a wall. Which is kind of what we're doing.

Over all, Obama's team is not doing that bad a job. Certainly they aren't doing too badly compared to Bush's team, or Clinton's, or Bush's, or Reagan's....partially because they were all following approximately the same 'policy'. The area is not amenable to a big, clear solution. So, you're left essntially playing badminton in the dark. If you can get your racquet on the birdie and get it back over the net, be happy.

[diverdog]

And that's still kind of the policy (more on the terrorist killin' and less on the nation building than W). The problem in Egypt is that they followed the play book and had elections....and the terrorists won. Except the Muslim Brotherhood aren't really terrorists...except sometimes...and they like to hang out with terrorists.
Oh, and they like to get all riled up and form big gangs and go burn down Christian churchs. Which is a difficult thing for any 'Mericun president. Even if the Coptic faith is about as close to Southern Baptist as Hindu Billy's Human Sacrifice Hour.
Worse yet, the bro's proved to have the competence that one would expect of a 'party' that had held power, well, never.

So far, Obama's team is not doing too, too bad in the area. I score it:

Morocco: pretty much okay. Little unrest. Kind of cool King who at least is young enough to have the energy to run a country. And he's vaguely in touch with his subjects. We support them and sort of push for civil rights, especially for girls.

Algeria: taking over the 'adult in the room' role from Egypt. And doing a dandy job of slaughtering the living crap out of AQIM. We slide them beaucoup moolah and arms because they tend to hit what they shoot at. A little push here and there on human rights. But, since we really don't gas about the humans whose rights are being abridged, not too much.

Tunisia: We're supporting their attempt to reassemble some sort of consensus. So far we're kind of 70:30...which probably passes for 'winning' in the Arab world.

Libya: guarded optimism here. Yes, the place is awash with guns, but that wasn't our doing. Oh, we have some guns, but they were doing fine on the gun collecting front long before we came along. Lots of extremists running around and the government has them under control not so much. But, did you really expect them to? We're actually in there batting in the hearts and minds fight and not losing. Give them some time, we've still got a chance.

Egypt: Well, what do you do? Support a despot? Support a duly elected religious party who's roots, at least in part, are deep in the INFIDELS MUST DIE! camp? Even when they start revamping their constitution with rather troublesome disregard for minority rights? How about the military? They're the only 'not bat **** crazy' group in the country, but have a distressing tendency to see of each problem a nail, for which their tanks and guns are conveniently hammers. No good options and never were any. Yeah, we're not looking like the Pros from Dover, but no one else is, either. Not even the locals. It's messed up, as you'd expect a pressure cooker that's been on the stove for 60 years to be. About the best we can hope for is to keep the rope-a-dope up and see what the Egyptians decide to do with/for themselves. If the military really does back out in six months, Egypt might well evolve into one of those states where democratically elected governments are more or less ratified by the military. Kind of like Indonesia. And that can work, at least for a couple of generations.

Jordan: So far Abdullah is doing okay keeping his finger on the pressure release just enough to keep things under control. He needs to keep so form of liberalization going and we're helping him with this. Extremely successful US diplomacy since WWII.

Iraq: Probably needs to go ahead and dissolve. If so, the Kurds will be the ones to ride with.

Saudi: The biggest potential headache around. How do we deal with our support (since the late 19th century) for an unashamedly medieval royal house? And how do you deal, alternatively, with a population who is utterly Wahhabiite and fit solely for rhythmic head nodding while chanting from a holy book broken only by sessions of raping Pakistani boys bought specially for the purpose? Here our diplomacy is working wonders: we continue to get oil and the Saudi's continue to fund people we couldn't get the worst reprobats in our government to agree to fund. About the best any US Pres can hope for here is for it to not blow up on his watch.

Syria: Stay away. Make sympathetic noises. Comfort yourself that the Assad family has been dickheads since forever, so, really, how much worse will it get?

Iran: Possibly the only 'bright spot'. We're at less than zero there already, there's room for improvement. At this stage, you're probably best served trying to get them to go back to their 'historic' role. Stroke their ego in exchange for them starting to play the game again.

Turkey: Most potential for disaster. But we're okay-ish here. Feed their economy, which we're doing. Like China, if they can keep the growth going, the McDonald's and Walmart effect will tend to mellow their people.

Kuwait and the Emirates? Are not even countries. Deal with them as corporate entities. We are. It's working.

Yemen. Strategically located Somalia. Build a wall. Which is kind of what we're doing.

Over all, Obama's team is not doing that bad a job. Certainly they aren't doing too badly compared to Bush's team, or Clinton's, or Bush's, or Reagan's....partially because they were all following approximately the same 'policy'. The area is not amenable to a big, clear solution. So, you're left essntially playing badminton in the dark. If you can get your racquet on the birdie and get it back over the net, be happy.

Excellent assessment.

The problem we have in Egypt is the man in power has let it get to him. Dude has an ego the size of the Arabian desert.

Morocco is a real bright spot. The young King is spending the treasury building roads and hospitals and schools. His people are happy with status quo and I think with Europe to the north trade and tourism will continue to grow.

[FaninAma]

My 3 step plan to solve the Middle East Problem:

1. Increase fracking and build the Keystone pipeline.2. Make sure Israel has at least 100 nuclear ICBMs
3. Get the hell out of Dodge( Middle East)


BTW Kanto, nice synopsis although I wouldn't be optimistic at all about Libya. Also, Obama's tepid support for Israel might encourage some Muslim radical elements to restart aggressive actions toward Israel.

If obama's plan was for the Muslims to kill each other then his plan is a resounding success. I doubt that was his plan, though.

[olevetonahill]

My 3 step plan to solve the Middle East Problem:

1. Increase fracking and build the Keystone pipeline.2. Make sure Israel has at least 100 nuclear ICBMs
3. Get the hell out of Dodge( Middle East)


BTW Kanto, nice synopsis although I wouldn't be optimistic at all about Libya.

I kinda sorta agree.
But Leave that area and NEVER go back EVER . Just tell em simply sell us Oil Reasonable, Keep the Terrorist in check Or we gonna come Kick Yalls AzS
Simple .

[diverdog]

My 3 step plan to solve the Middle East Problem:

1. Increase fracking and build the Keystone pipeline.2. Make sure Israel has at least 100 nuclear ICBMs
3. Get the hell out of Dodge( Middle East)


BTW Kanto, nice synopsis although I wouldn't be optimistic at all about Libya. Also, Obama's tepid support for Israel might encourage some Muslim radical elements to restart aggressive actions toward Israel.

If obama's plan was for the Muslims to kill each other then his plan is a resounding success. I doubt that was his plan, though.

I thought I read in Janes (military think tank) that Israel has around 200 nukes. Plus they have at least one if not two boomer type class subs.....german version that can launch cruise missiles. So they possess a good first strike capability. Israel also possesses a defensive missile capability.

[FaninAma]

I thought I read in Janes (military think tank) that Israel has around 200 nukes. Plus they have at least one if not two boomer type class subs.....german version that can launch cruise missiles. So they possess a good first strike capability. Israel also possesses a defensive missile capability.

i'd give them a hundred more + 100 nuclear cruise missiles just for good measure. But who knows.....there are probably some Muslim dumbasses in the region that are willing to take a knife to a gun fight. If I were Israel I'd tell my Muslim neighbors they will be the targets of Israeli retaliation if a group within their country launches a successful WMD attack within the borders of Israel and I would make it clear their oilfields would be the first targets.

[KantoSooner]

Israel needs exactly what it has, a second strike capability. That's what the subs are about. Obliterate Israel and you still have 50+ warheads capable of hitting whatever they want to hit. Makes even an Imam think twice.

Fanin, I'm not that optimistic about Libya, but there's still room for hope there. It'll be messy and probably bloody, though.

The deal in the mid-east is that we're still dealing with the aftermath of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. A lot of these countries (like Libya) never had a strong national identity to start with. It's no wonder the Benghazi-ites have trouble getting along with the Tripolitans. They never fully got the concept of belonging to the same country.

And that's not so hard to understand. Why are Germany and Austria separate countries afterall? Beats hell out of me.

There's a lot of crap in the mid-east that is going to have to work itself out and reallly not much we can do to help the process along. We've got interests there, however, so it falls to our diplomats to do the best they can. Which I think they're doing a not so bad job at.

[rock on sooner]

Kanto, as others have said, good assessment. Syria, imo, should be visited by
covert ops to get rid of Assad and install someone (don't know who, tho) that is
less a despot/tyrant. I think Libya will turn out better than some think. As for Israel,
let Netanyahu be Netanyahu, make sure he has current, accurate intel regarding Iran
(that is to say, good info on command and control) and a generous supply of current
military hardware, oh, and keep Mossad well fed.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Syria, imo, should be visited by
covert ops to get rid of Assad and install someone (don't know who, tho) that is
less a despot/tyrant.

Couldn't disagree more. I'd even be as bold as to say we should covertly SUPPORT the al Assad regime because the disjointed clusterf*ck of opposition is the very thing we've been trying to kick the **** out of since 9-11. The very thing that's trying to drive Egypt into a perverted, sadistic, misogynistic, duly elected cesspool of ***. It's all well and good to want to feel touchy feely about a democratically elected government but when that government is in majority the Muslim Brotherhood? Hezbollah? Now with kung-fu grip and official state funding? Now you're not just fighting religious zealotry, you're fighting national identity AND a platform for yet another focal point of Russian and Chinese opposition, not to mention giving these clowns an international voice.

Keep 'em in the caves and back alleys, plotting and planning and trying to stock up on dran-o and fertilizer. Kick a few bucks to a Hozni Mubarak-styled hardcase that keeps the peeps in line. And keep the black gold flowing.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Most of us on the right admit Bush was a terrible president. Why you lefties think throwing Bush at us is a good defense for your boy continues to astonish me.IMO it shouldn't astonish you. Starting point for designation as good = democrat. So, any non-democrat in the eyes of the Left = bad...and, non-democrats MUST think he was good.

As unprincipled and left leaning as W was, he wasn't a D. So, he is/was "bad". Unfortunately, the competition W had from the Left was even (much) more objectionable to American laws and our heritage of freedom.

[rock on sooner]

Couldn't disagree more. I'd even be as bold as to say we should covertly SUPPORT the al Assad regime because the disjointed clusterf*ck of opposition is the very thing we've been trying to kick the **** out of since 9-11. The very thing that's trying to drive Egypt into a perverted, sadistic, misogynistic, duly elected cesspool of ***. It's all well and good to want to feel touchy feely about a democratically elected government but when that government is in majority the Muslim Brotherhood? Hezbollah? Now with kung-fu grip and official state funding? Now you're not just fighting religious zealotry, you're fighting national identity AND a platform for yet another focal point of Russian and Chinese opposition, not to mention giving these clowns an international voice.

Keep 'em in the caves and back alleys, plotting and planning and trying to stock up on dran-o and fertilizer. Kick a few bucks to a Hozni Mubarak-styled hardcase that keeps the peeps in line. And keep the black gold flowing.

Interesting point of view....Assad is the culprit of killing 100k
of his own people. Correct? Your position is to just leave him
alone, not sure why that'd be a good thing...

[olevetonahill]

Interesting point of view....Assad is the culprit of killing 100k
of his own people. Correct? Your position is to just leave him
alone, not sure why that'd be a good thing...

Well to start with thats 100K less of those ****ers breeding. thats a good start dont ya think?

[KantoSooner]

Those who might replace him could very possibly be worse.

Still, this is reminescent of the Iran/Iraq war, but with better television coverage. dooshbags to one side, pureblind azzholes to the other. And, tragically, some decent-ish folk in the middle. Still, when islamo-socialist-fascists are slaughtering and being slaughtered by a crazy quilt of outright terror groups, criminal gang militias, religious zealots, meth-fueled bargain basement mercenaries and sectarians of every sect you can imagine, it's hard not to secretly hope the ammo doesn't run out too soon.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Those who might replace him could very possibly be worse.

Still, this is reminescent of the Iran/Iraq war, but with better television coverage. dooshbags to one side, pureblind azzholes to the other. And, tragically, some decent-ish folk in the middle. Still, when islamo-socialist-fascists are slaughtering and being slaughtered by a crazy quilt of outright terror groups, criminal gang militias, religious zealots, meth-fueled bargain basement mercenaries and sectarians of every sect you can imagine, it's hard not to secretly hope the ammo doesn't run out too soon.

Listen to him Flounder, he's pre-med.

[FaninAma]

Couldn't disagree more. I'd even be as bold as to say we should covertly SUPPORT the al Assad regime because the disjointed clusterf*ck of opposition is the very thing we've been trying to kick the **** out of since 9-11. The very thing that's trying to drive Egypt into a perverted, sadistic, misogynistic, duly elected cesspool of ***. It's all well and good to want to feel touchy feely about a democratically elected government but when that government is in majority the Muslim Brotherhood? Hezbollah? Now with kung-fu grip and official state funding? Now you're not just fighting religious zealotry, you're fighting national identity AND a platform for yet another focal point of Russian and Chinese opposition, not to mention giving these clowns an international voice.

Keep 'em in the caves and back alleys, plotting and planning and trying to stock up on dran-o and fertilizer. Kick a few bucks to a Hozni Mubarak-styled hardcase that keeps the peeps in line. And keep the black gold flowing.

I tend to agree with your general assessment. Russia has avoided direct involvement in the area save for their disastrous incursion into Afghanistan and their use of surrogates seems to be working okay for them despite having the Chechnya Muslim problem to contend with.

Now, if the radical Islamists are the victors in all if these regional conflicts ( especially Egypt and Syria) then all bets are off and I think Russia will be in the crosshairs of these radical maniacs and they don't have 2 oceans to separate themselves from attacks.