Has There Ever Been A More Divisive POTUS Than The Current Occupant Of The Office?

[FaninAma]

Now he and his criminal AG are ignoring the SCOTUS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/26/us/holder-wants-texas-to-clear-voting-changes-with-the-us.html?hp

His goal is to turn every state into other cesspools dominated by the Democratic party.

[yermom]

The Decider wasn't devisive?

[KantoSooner]

Dick Nixon did a good impression of dividing the country. Adams and Jefferson were pretty roundly hated by their opposites. Liincoln! Whew! Now there was a divider. hell, he got half the country to actually arm up and have a war with the other half. THAT, my friends, is some serious dividin'
Let's see....
FDR! My grandfather couldn't say his name...and that was 30 years after the man died.
Herbert Hoover. Who was either one of the most educated and accomplished presidents we've ever had...or a man who giggled uncontrollably at the thought of tearing the food from chidrens' mouths, depending on who you talk to.
It's pretty much the same most of the time; but it's like pain, you forget how bad it is once it's past.

[yermom]

after reading the article, i fail to be outraged

[Skysooner]

Now he and his criminal AG are ignoring the SCOTUS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/26/us/holder-wants-texas-to-clear-voting-changes-with-the-us.html?hp

His goal is to turn every state into other cesspools dominated by the Democratic party.

Ignoring? Hardly. They are starting new court action which won't take any sort of precedence over a SCOTUS decision unless it actually reaches SCOTUS. Kind of reminds me the way the 'Pubs are trying to skirt over Roe v. Wade honestly. Hard to scream when you are doing the same thing.

[C&CDean]

Drop the TU and we've got our current CIC pegged perfectly.

[olevetonahill]

Drop the TU and we've got our current CIC pegged perfectly.

I see what yer saying :wink:

[FaninAma]

Ignoring? Hardly. They are starting new court action which won't take any sort of precedence over a SCOTUS decision unless it actually reaches SCOTUS. Kind of reminds me the way the 'Pubs are trying to skirt over Roe v. Wade honestly. Hard to scream when you are doing the same thing.

BS. The SCOTUS ruling very specifically stated the federal government could no longer target individual states for violation of the votingg rights act. They have to do a blanket review of every state. Individual groups within a state can bring suit.

He and his administration are intentionally targeting political oppents and abusing the powers of their office to do so. From the IRS targeting to the selective enforcement of immigration laws to the selective targeting of voter rights issues this President is operating exactly like a corrupt punk from the corrupt Chicago/Illinois political machine system would be expected to act.

All he is doing is driving Texas and the South further into the red comfort zone. Obama may be the master of getting out his vote but he is damaging any hopes the Democrats will make inroads in the South beyond any hopes of repair for the next 10 years.

His in your face type of leadershipis also making it very hard for moderate Republicans to support his agenda. He will end his 2 terms in office with a worse record than GWB and Jimmy Carter.

[FaninAma]

after reading the article, i fail to be outraged

I fail to be suprised that you fail to be outraged. If a GOP administration ignored a SCOTUS ruling you socialists would be screaming like gutshot panthers.

[FaninAma]

Drop the TU and we've got our current CIC pegged perfectly.

You're doing all POS a disservice by comparing them to this moron.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Drop the TU and we've got our current CIC pegged perfectly.Corwholer, Comunisto, Coksukr? What'll it be?

[yermom]

I fail to be suprised that you fail to be outraged. If a GOP administration ignored a SCOTUS ruling you socialists would be screaming like gutshot panthers.

i'm sure you can find much bigger things the government is doing to worry about. Holder trying to make sure some Latinos can still vote doesn't make me lose any sleep

[TAFBSooner]

Herbert Hoover. Who was either one of the most educated and accomplished presidents we've ever had...or a man who giggled uncontrollably at the thought of tearing the food from chidrens' mouths, depending on who you talk to.


Those two descriptions aren't mutually exclusive.

If I ever think about participating in politics, rather than jawing about it, I remember the two engineers who actually held the office of POTUS - Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter.

[olevetonahill]

Those two descriptions aren't mutually exclusive.

If I ever think about participating in politics, rather than jawing about it, I remember the two engineers who actually held the office of POTUS - Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter.

You remember Hoover? Dayum just how old are you?

[Skysooner]

BS. The SCOTUS ruling very specifically stated the federal government could no longer target individual states for violation of the votingg rights act. They have to do a blanket review of every state. Individual groups within a state can bring suit.

He and his administration are intentionally targeting political oppents and abusing the powers of their office to do so. From the IRS targeting to the selective enforcement of immigration laws to the selective targeting of voter rights issues this President is operating exactly like a corrupt punk from the corrupt Chicago/Illinois political machine system would be expected to act.

All he is doing is driving Texas and the South further into the red comfort zone. Obama may be the master of getting out his vote but he is damaging any hopes the Democrats will make inroads in the South beyond any hopes of repair for the next 10 years.

His in your face type of leadershipis also making it very hard for moderate Republicans to support his agenda. He will end his 2 terms in office with a worse record than GWB and Jimmy Carter.

I don't necessarily like this President particularly with the back-handed harm he is doing the energy industry. The IRS situation is looking more shady now. I just disagree that this particular news qualifies as being that divisive.

[ouwasp]

Lincoln getting elected actually precipitated a civil war. So it could be argued that, despite all of Abe's glorification, he was The Divisive President.

[FaninAma]

Lincoln getting elected actually precipitated a civil war. So it could be argued that, despite all of Abe's glorification, he was The Divisive President.

I was about to suggest the same but didn't want to sidetrack this thread by comparing Obama to the biggest tyrrant to hold office in this country. Lincoln is the reason Obama can get away with the crap he perpetrates in office.

[FaninAma]

I don't necessarily like this President particularly with the back-handed harm he is doing the energy industry. The IRS situation is looking more shady now. I just disagree that this particular news qualifies as being that divisive.

I think the majority of Texans would disagree with you. The SCOTUS was very clear. The federal government cannot single out individual states for review. An interested party in that state has to file suit for judicial review.

[KantoSooner]

I was about to suggest the same but didn't want to sidetrack this thread by comparing Obama to the biggest tyrrant to hold office in this country. Lincoln is the reason Obama can get away with the crap he perpetrates in office.

He's also the reason we have a country today, and that chattel slavery didn't persist deep into the 20th century. Arguably (and it's really only Abe and Big George in the serious running) our finest president by a wide margin.

[C&CDean]

He's also the reason we have a country today, and that chattel slavery didn't persist deep into the 20th century. Arguably (and it's really only Abe and Big George in the serious running) our finest president by a wide margin.

Glad you said "arguably."

[TheHumanAlphabet]

No.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No.Duh! The most Collectivist of all. Set on destroying the country.

[FaninAma]

He's also the reason we have a country today, and that chattel slavery didn't persist deep into the 20th century. Arguably (and it's really only Abe and Big George in the serious running) our finest president by a wide margin.

Keep telling yourself that. Lincoln is the reason the federal government has grown into the current power-grabbing, unmanageable, wasteful monstrosity we have today. He insured there would never be any true checks on its uncontrolled growth guaranteeing its transformation into the big corporation-fascist state that masquerades as a representative republic..

Association by free will was a tantamount principle used to reassure those with concerns about a large suppressive/repressive federal government to support the Constitution. Lincoln destroyed that principle.

[C&CDean]

I don't really care all that much about it, however, Lincoln was damn sure in the top 5 in ugly.

[FaninAma]

I don't really care all that much about it, however, Lincoln was damn sure in the top 5 in ugly.

It is strongly suspected Honest Abe probably had Marfan's syndrome and would have died of a ruptured aortic aneurysm within a decade if Booth hadn't taken him out.

[KantoSooner]

Keep telling yourself that. Lincoln is the reason the federal government has grown into the current power-grabbing, unmanageable, wasteful monstrosity we have today. He insured there would never be any true checks on its uncontrolled growth guaranteeing its transformation into the big corporation-fascist state that masquerades as a representative republic..

Association by free will was a tantamount principle used to reassure those with concerns about a large suppressive/repressive federal government to support the Constitution. Lincoln destroyed that principle.

Yes, free association was a big deal, but even the founding fathers clearly recognized that the concepts of Rousseau, though critical to understanding the principles of the enlightenment, were not a very good blueprint for a realworld society. So, no, perfect individual freedom was never a big part of the working plan for the USofA.
You might note that, hiding in there among all the high flying language about liberty and actualizing one's full potential and pursuing your happiness is also a little clause on executing traitors. OOOOOooooohhhhhh. Bummed your trip, did I? Not even Tommy J was so naive as to assume that you could run a nation of millions without some degree of police authority.

As to Lincoln being the source of the ascension of the federal government, I believe you are giving him waaay too much credit. Let's go backwards to John Marshall, for one. Or even Alexander Hamilton. And then let's jump forward to FDR and, most especially to WWII.

Finally, when you throw terms like 'facist' and 'repressive/suppressive' around like you know what they mean, grant me the right to question you. Are you equating the current US government with those of Hitler or Stalin? Or even the comically incompetent Southern Euro wannabes in the form of Franco or Mussollini? Or even how about the extremely benign yet quite authoritarian governments of Lee Quan Yew or Mahathir Mohammed? No?

If what we have today is to be laid at Lincoln's feet, then I, for one, will travel to his shrine in D.C. to honor the man. Cause what we've got is truer to the original intent of our founders and so much better than what anyone else has that it's not even up for debate.

Go ahead, if you're so pissy with how things are here, move to Ireland. I would advise you to keep a civil tongue in your head, though. Perhaps you've heard of the Internal Security Act (ISA)? It's a little law on the books in Ireland that allows you to be jaiiled without cause for an unlimited time providing the Taoseich (excuse spelling) and Chief Justice get together once a year, pour each other a sherry and agree that, yep, Fanin needs to stay behind bars for another year.

[C&CDean]

It is strongly suspected Honest Able probably had Marfan's syndrome and would have died of a ruptured aortic aneurysm within a decade if Booth hadn't taken him out.

If that would have happened we wouldn't be having any of the good/bad Abe conversation. He'd be just another dead prez. The public assassination by an actor, etc. are what has made him as famous as he is.

Even with all that, alls he could do was get his ugly mug on a penny and a fiver. Hell, Benjamin wasn't even a prez and he got his face on a C-note.

[olevetonahill]

If that would have happened we wouldn't be having any of the good/bad Abe conversation. He'd be just another dead prez. The public assassination by an actor, etc. are what has made him as famous as he is.

Even with all that, alls he could do was get his ugly mug on a penny and a fiver. Hell, Benjamin wasn't even a prez and he got his face on a C-note.

Ben Owned him some Slaves, Abe didnt.

[Skysooner]

If that would have happened we wouldn't be having any of the good/bad Abe conversation. He'd be just another dead prez. The public assassination by an actor, etc. are what has made him as famous as he is.

Even with all that, alls he could do was get his ugly mug on a penny and a fiver. Hell, Benjamin wasn't even a prez and he got his face on a C-note.

I totally disagree with this. Most of the Presidents that have been in power during a major war are remembered. It is the peacetime Presidents that aren't remembered that well.

It has been argued that his assassiniation did help bring the north and south back together much faster than they would have without the assassination. I think that is the biggest result of his being killed.

[FaninAma]

Yes, free association was a big deal, but even the founding fathers clearly recognized that the concepts of Rousseau, though critical to understanding the principles of the enlightenment, were not a very good blueprint for a realworld society. So, no, perfect individual freedom was never a big part of the working plan for the USofA.
You might note that, hiding in there among all the high flying language about liberty and actualizing one's full potential and pursuing your happiness is also a little clause on executing traitors. OOOOOooooohhhhhh. Bummed your trip, did I? Not even Tommy J was so naive as to assume that you could run a nation of millions without some degree of police authority.

As to Lincoln being the source of the ascension of the federal government, I believe you are giving him waaay too much credit. Let's go backwards to John Marshall, for one. Or even Alexander Hamilton. And then let's jump forward to FDR and, most especially to WWII.

Finally, when you throw terms like 'facist' and 'repressive/suppressive' around like you know what they mean, grant me the right to question you. Are you equating the current US government with those of Hitler or Stalin? Or even the comically incompetent Southern Euro wannabes in the form of Franco or Mussollini? Or even how about the extremely benign yet quite authoritarian governments of Lee Quan Yew or Mahathir Mohammed? No?

If what we have today is to be laid at Lincoln's feet, then I, for one, will travel to his shrine in D.C. to honor the man. Cause what we've got is truer to the original intent of our founders and so much better than what anyone else has that it's not even up for debate.

Go ahead, if you're so pissy with how things are here, move to Ireland. I would advise you to keep a civil tongue in your head, though. Perhaps you've heard of the Internal Security Act (ISA)? It's a little law on the books in Ireland that allows you to be jaiiled without cause for an unlimited time providing the Taoseich (excuse spelling) and Chief Justice get together once a year, pour each other a sherry and agree that, yep, Fanin needs to stay behind bars for another year.

You seem to confuse individual, small group rebellion with a popular, democratically led rebuking of the federal government. Your argument is a straw man. The FF's were very dubious of government and sought to insure recourses for future citizens if the new government became as tyrannical as the one they fought a costly war to gain independence.

And as far as acting pissy I would say that your last post that attempted to take personal shots more appropriately meets that definition.

[olevetonahill]

I totally disagree with this. Most of the Presidents that have been in power during a major war are remembered. It is the peacetime Presidents that aren't remembered that well.


It has been argued that his assassiniation did help bring the north and south back together much faster than they would have without the assassination. I think that is the biggest result of his being killed.


Hell EVERY thing has been argued .
But when I was in School Way Way Way back in the dark ages it was Taught that Lincolns Death Hurt the reunification of this country Because he had No plan to deal as harshly with the south as those who came to power after his death, Ya do remember the Carpet baggers and such , Right?

[KantoSooner]

hohoho
No, actualy I don't confuse them whatsoever. But the issue's been debated far better than you and I ever could. Read The Federalist Papers. I particularly suggest Federalist 14. Off you go...

[FaninAma]

hohoho
No, actualy I don't confuse them whatsoever. But the issue's been debated far better than you and I ever could. Read The Federalist Papers. I particularly suggest Federalist 14. Off you go...

i will do that. And remember, just because I think Lincoln was a jackass and an enabler of the present day political ruling class it doesn't mean I think this country is a lost cause. If I did I wouldn't care enough to get worked up about it.

[cleller]

Obama seems to have a problem with respecting the decisions of our courts.

Actually, he seems contemptuous of those decisions that don't suit his needs, and seeks to undermine them.

[Skysooner]

Hell EVERY thing has been argued .
But when I was in School Way Way Way back in the dark ages it was Taught that Lincolns Death Hurt the reunification of this country Because he had No plan to deal as harshly with the south as those who came to power after his death, Ya do remember the Carpet baggers and such , Right?

This is more of a modern argument. History is usually written by the victors so automatically suspect.

[Skysooner]

Hell EVERY thing has been argued .
But when I was in School Way Way Way back in the dark ages it was Taught that Lincolns Death Hurt the reunification of this country Because he had No plan to deal as harshly with the south as those who came to power after his death, Ya do remember the Carpet baggers and such , Right?

This is more of a modern argument. History is usually written by the victors so automatically suspect.

[TAFBSooner]

Lincoln getting elected actually precipitated a civil war. So it could be argued that, despite all of Abe's glorification, he was The Divisive President.

Soooooo. The story I read in the history books is that Southerners pass down through their families the story that the 1861-1865 unpleasantness was "not about slavery." Can you recommend an actual book that promotes that view (one with footnotes)?

[SoonerorLater]

This is more of a modern argument. History is usually written by the victors so automatically suspect.

Would history be better served written by the losers?

[TAFBSooner]

Quote Originally Posted by KantoSooner He's also the reason we have a country today, and that chattel slavery didn't persist deep into the 20th century. Arguably (and it's really only Abe and Big George in the serious running) our finest president by a wide margin.

Keep telling yourself that. Lincoln is the reason the federal government has grown into the current power-grabbing, unmanageable, wasteful monstrosity we have today. He insured there would never be any true checks on its uncontrolled growth guaranteeing its transformation into the big corporation-fascist state that masquerades as a representative republic..

Association by free will was a tantamount principle used to reassure those with concerns about a large suppressive/repressive federal government to support the Constitution. Lincoln destroyed that principle.

Fan, you do realize that what you said in your first paragraph didn't relate to Kanto's comment at all? Perhaps you want to make the argument that the centralization of government that was hurried right along in the Civil War is worse than maintaining chattel slavery would have been?

Also, Lincoln didn't give us the centralization we have today all by his lonesome. In addition to what others have said in this thread, there was the Supreme Court decision in 1886 that gave corporations 14th amendment rights.

[TAFBSooner]

Would history be better served written by the losers?

Probably. If it would get people to count to ten before going to war.