So Zimmermans Jury is picked

[olevetonahill]

If i was him I'd be skeered. 6 yainchs sittin in Judgement and an Old hag fer a judge. 5 white wimmens and they aint said last I heard what the 6th one is.

Since he only gets 6 jurors does it have to be a unanimous Verdict?

[olevetonahill]

So, No one has an opinion on this?

[OU68]

I know, I know, I'm a dumbass - but I still come down on the side that when he got out of the truck with his weapon, he forfeited the "stand your ground" argument -- let the flames begin... :hororr:

[Midtowner]

I don't think the public (including me) has any idea what all of the evidence is. It is interesting that the jury is all female. I wonder whether both sides employed jury consultants... in the end, I guess we'll know who's consultant was full of ****.

[olevetonahill]

I don't think the public (including me) has any idea what all of the evidence is. It is interesting that the jury is all female. I wonder whether both sides employed jury consultants... in the end, I guess we'll know who's consultant was full of ****.

News showed Zimmerman with a Consultant. not sure of the DA.

[olevetonahill]

I know, I know, I'm a dumbass - but I still come down on the side that when he got out of the truck with his weapon, he forfeited the "stand your ground" argument -- let the flames begin... :hororr:

That very well could be why his attorney didnt go with that defense and simply went with Sled Defense instead.

[okie52]

I know, I know, I'm a dumbass - but I still come down on the side that when he got out of the truck with his weapon, he forfeited the "stand your ground" argument -- let the flames begin... :hororr:

Who knows what the facts are....but I don't think being out of your vehicle removes your right to self defense.

[rock on sooner]

Just guessing, mind you, but looks like his defense attorney
thinks he can somehow bring racial distrust into the trial. Judge
has already ruled that Martin's past brushes can't be used. It
really is interesting that it is an all female jury.

[olevetonahill]

Just guessing, mind you, but looks like his defense attorney
thinks he can somehow bring racial distrust into the trial. Judge
has already ruled that Martin's past brushes can't be used. It
really is interesting that it is an all female jury.


there sayin 5 whites and a Hispanic. Not sure how to even attempt to read that.

[OU68]

Who knows what the facts are....but I don't think being out of your vehicle removes your right to self defense.

Agree, to a point - I think it's the surrounding circumstances here that will bite him in the azz.

[rock on sooner]

there sayin 5 whites and a Hispanic. Not sure how to even attempt to read that.

Looking at the makeup, there are no African Americans on the jury
and the defendant is charged with killing an African American, but
someone earlier posted about not knowing all the evidence. It'll
be quite the story with the so called legal experts on TV as the trial
progresses...

[okie52]

I thought one lady was African American-mother of 8...or so I thought I heard that on the Today show this morning.

[olevetonahill]

I thought one lady was African American-mother of 8...or so I thought I heard that on the Today show this morning.

Not according to this. But hell the reporters have ****ed everything else up.


But now the mostly middle age and older female jury – all white, except one Hispanic woman – have to attempt to set aside what they have heard about the case and move beyond their own attitudes and beliefs in order to zero in on whether the killing constituted murder, as the state contends, or was a tragic result of legitimate self-defense.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-jury-peers-jury-mostly-white-women-230712189.html;_ylt=Am6zoqL2HOpK4DPNRcCm_HWZCMZ_;_ ylu=X3oDMTVxODZ2bzY5BGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2 lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDQXJ0aWNsZSBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IE5ld3Mg Zm9yIFlvdSB3aXRoIE1vcmUgTGluawRwa2cDM2M3YTUxN2EtZm FiNi0zMWQxLWEwNDAtNWUwOGQ3Y2I0MDYwBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNu ZXdzX2Zvcl95b3UEdmVyA2Y3ZDZiZWYwLWQ5ZmYtMTFlMi05NW ZmLTI3OWZmMDdkNGJiNg--;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3

[okie52]

Don't know how exactly jury selection works but it would seem the prosecutor would have made sure there was at least one African American on the jury.

Also, just 6 jurors in FL...particularly for a murder case?

[badger]

Since he only gets 6 jurors does it have to be a unanimous Verdict?

Are there any situations were a verdict doesn't have to be unanimous? When ex-Illinois Gov. Blago had his first trial, they had to throw out several counts (with the option of a retrial) because one juror was being stubborn and not agreeing with the rest.

[olevetonahill]

Don't know how exactly jury selection works but it would seem the prosecutor would have made sure there was at least one African American on the jury.

Also, just 6 jurors in FL...particularly for a murder case?

The way I read it was a Capitol Murder case with the possibility of the DP would have required 12.
2nd degree just the 6

[rock on sooner]

Welp, Nancy Grace's head will explode at least a half dozen
times during the trial....

[olevetonahill]

Welp, Nancy Grace's head will explode at least a half dozen
times during the trial....

Never watched her, Dont know much about her either.

[rock on sooner]

Never watched her, Dont know much about her either.

Don't watch her show but she comes on the talk shows as an
"expert". I often wonder why they give her air time....

[okie52]

The way I read it was a Capitol Murder case with the possibility of the DP would have required 12.
2nd degree just the 6

Ahh...

[olevetonahill]

Ahh...

If It was ME and I had a choice I would want the 12 with several Old fat white dudes on it.

[okie52]

If It was ME and I had a choice I would want the 12 with several Old fat white dudes on it.

Or hispanics

[OULenexaman]

I thought one lady was African American-mother of 8...or so I thought I heard that on the Today show this morning. You watch the Today show?? How?? Ya got thicker skin than me....

[jkjsooner]

Just guessing, mind you, but looks like his defense attorney
thinks he can somehow bring racial distrust into the trial. Judge
has already ruled that Martin's past brushes can't be used. It
really is interesting that it is an all female jury.

What I heard is that the defense can't bring up Martin's past unless the prosecution opens the door. If the prosecution portrays Martin as a sweet law abiding kid who wouldn't harm a flea then the defense would be able to bring up some of the other stuff.

[Soonerjeepman]

Who knows what the facts are....but I don't think being out of your vehicle removes your right to self defense.

if I have CC and I'm carrying...I'm going to defend myself...

[Soonerjeepman]

there sayin 5 whites and a Hispanic. Not sure how to even attempt to read that.

I'm thinkin 5 whites...no way in hell they DON'T convict him...there'll be race riots led by the Rev jesse jackson.

On the other side, can't have all black folks cause if he IS innocent they'll be riots if they find him innocent.

He'll be guilty of something.

Course I'd want a jury of MY peers, white 48 yr old teacher, semi-middle class divorced dad of 2~

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You watch the Today show?? How?? Ya got thicker skin than me....he's a masochist.

[okie52]

You watch the Today show?? How?? Ya got thicker skin than me....

Fair and balanced....

[diverdog]

I'm thinkin 5 whites...no way in hell they DON'T convict him...there'll be race riots led by the Rev jesse jackson.

On the other side, can't have all black folks cause if he IS innocent they'll be riots if they find him innocent.

He'll be guilty of something.

Course I'd want a jury of MY peers, white 48 yr old teacher, semi-middle class divorced dad of 2~

You forgot to add "with a nympho for a GF". !

[8timechamps]

I still want to know why there are only 6 jurors. It's not a Florida thing (I don't think), because Casey Anthony had 12 jurors. Just seems weird that in a murder case, there would only be 6 of 'em.

[olevetonahill]

I still want to know why there are only 6 jurors. It's not a Florida thing (I don't think), because Casey Anthony had 12 jurors. Just seems weird that in a murder case, there would only be 6 of 'em.

Fla. Is weird, IF its Not a Death Penalty case then only 6 are required.

[FaninAma]

Welp, Nancy Grace's head will explode at least a half dozen
times during the trial....We can only hope.

[Soonerjeepman]

You forgot to add "with a nympho for a GF". !

lol...true...this acl is killin her!

[cleller]

I would prefer a jury with 3 German Shepherds and 3 Border Collies. Both very intelligent, and can spot poor character.

[rock on sooner]

Would need a seventh jury member...a dog whisperer!

[rock on sooner]

Zimmerman is in deep do-do....his lawyer opened his defense
with a stupid knock-knock joke!

[C&CDean]

I hope he walks, and I hope there's big-assed race riots in Florida over it. Then, I hope the cops shoot a bunch of muh****ahs for stealing TVs...er I mean protesting whitey...er I mean brownie...er I mean meh.

[OU68]

I hope he walks, and I hope there's big-assed race riots in Florida over it. Then, I hope the cops shoot a bunch of muh****ahs for stealing TVs...er I mean protesting whitey...er I mean brownie...er I mean meh.

Sorry, but he's f**d.

The prosecution began opening statements Monday in the long-awaited murder trial with shocking language, repeating obscenities Zimmerman uttered while talking to a police dispatcher moments before the deadly confrontation.

[olevetonahill]

Sorry, but he's f**d.

The prosecution began opening statements Monday in the long-awaited murder trial with shocking language, repeating obscenities Zimmerman uttered while talking to a police dispatcher moments before the deadly confrontation.


Not necessarily The Prosecutor could have Offended the Old biddies on the Jury by using the F word.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Zimmerman is in deep do-do....his lawyer opened his defense
with a stupid knock-knock joke!

Stupid in multiple ways. He was implying the jury is ignorant.

Knock. Knock.

Who's there?

George Zimmerman.

George Zimmerman who?

Congratulations! You're on the jury!

[C&CDean]

Sorry, but he's f**d.

The prosecution began opening statements Monday in the long-awaited murder trial with shocking language, repeating obscenities Zimmerman uttered while talking to a police dispatcher moments before the deadly confrontation.

They're just starting opening statements and he's aready ****ed? He cussed so now he's ****ed? Let's let it all play out and see. Pretty sure the facts will eventually weigh in Zimmergonzalez's favor...which doesn't mean dick when a jury is ignorant or afraid of a riot or something.

[OU68]

They're just starting opening statements and he's aready ****ed? He cussed so now he's ****ed? Let's let it all play out and see. Pretty sure the facts will eventually weigh in Zimmergonzalez's favor...which doesn't mean dick when a jury is ignorant or afraid of a riot or something.

Dean, I believe Travon would have eventually wound up in prison, or dead anyway - but Z's language goes a long way toward showing his mindset when he got out of the truck with his weapon - that ain't "standing your ground".

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Without seeing or hearing all of the evidence, my initial speculative opinion is that Zimmerman is guilty of being a dumbass, but he'll not be found guilty of murder.

[olevetonahill]

Unfortunately I agree that Zimmer is ****ed in the A. This Judge is a ****in joke.
She allows the Prosecutors to Put Zims Family down as Potential witness's for the Prosecution and excludes them Yet allows Martins folks to stay in the court room and disrupt the proceedings
Yesterday His momma Ran out all upset over the testimony Today it was daddies turn.

[C&CDean]

It ain't a trial, it's a circus. Personally IDGAS. Not even enough to know a single word of testimony or even WTF most of you are talking about on this deal. I know he shot some black kid and he's a racist (has to be, right?) and he's claiming self defense. I also know that the kid who was killed was a thug (based on what little I've seen/read about it). I ain't gonna follow the trial, IDGAS how it ends up. Nothing will surprise me though.

[olevetonahill]

It ain't a trial, it's a circus. Personally IDGAS. Not even enough to know a single word of testimony or even WTF most of you are talking about on this deal. I know he shot some black kid and he's a racist (has to be, right?) and he's claiming self defense. I also know that the kid who was killed was a thug (based on what little I've seen/read about it). I ain't gonna follow the trial, IDGAS how it ends up. Nothing will surprise me though.

Heh. Yer such a ****in cynic

[JiuJitsuSooner]

You hope there's a race riot?!?! Really?? Not cool man, remember LA? I live in FL, that's the last thing I'd want to see down here.. And based on history, those things usually spread across the country and they get ugly, innocent ppl get hurt/killed and business owners are affected

[olevetonahill]

You hope there's a race riot?!?! Really dude?? Not cool man, remember LA? I live in FL, that's the last thing I'd want to see down here

IF they Convict Him? Hell yes I hope the Whitehispanics tear that ****in place down and Burn whats left

[JiuJitsuSooner]

What would that accomplish exactly?

[olevetonahill]

What would that accomplish exactly?

Maybe YOU should have been on the Jury.
IF they Convict Most will say Its to Keep the folks from rioting. If they acquit Its gonna be Cause everyones Racist.
Yall aint gotta chance down there. I say MOVE.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Whitehispanics You've boarded the train! They are what, little or no Indian nor Black blood folks?

[C&CDean]

Helter Skelter!!

[cleller]

Maybe YOU should have been on the Jury.
IF they Convict Most will say Its to Keep the folks from rioting. If they acquit Its gonna be Cause everyones Racist.
Yall aint gotta chance down there. I say MOVE.

You're forgetting the possibility of celebration rioting.

[olevetonahill]

You're forgetting the possibility of celebration rioting.

After the way it sounds the defense handed the Prosecution their asses today with their STAR witness. Its lookin like there may be some celebration in the Zimmerman camp.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

After the way it sounds the defense handed the Prosecution their asses today with their STAR witness. Its lookin like there may be some celebration in the Zimmerman camp.

I didn't get to watch any of it today. What's the scoop?

[olevetonahill]

I didn't get to watch any of it today. What's the scoop?

I never watch any of it, Justvread where they had made her Look stupider than she prolly really is.
She admitted Lying several times.

[olevetonahill]

If they acquit him they best give him back his gun cause he gonna need it.

http://twitchy.com/2013/06/27/ima-kill-me-a-cracka-death-threats-against-george-zimmerman-random-white-people-explode-during-trial/?utm_source=autotweet&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter

[soonerhubs]

Not Guilty.

[rock on sooner]

Welp, not guilty...don't know if hes armed now....

[nighttrain12]

I suppose there is a chance he could still be brought up on Federal civil rights charges like the 4 L.A. cops who beat the crap out of Rodney King?

[okie52]

Sharpton is calling for the Feds to step in

[Blue]

The media wants riots apparently. Get after it, people.

[ouwasp]

The MSM will just purse their collective lips and bemoan the perpetual plight of people of color. Also, they'll emphasize Zimmerman was more white than Hispanic.

Oh yeah, this whole thing was Bush's fault too.

[Wishboned]

I thought for sure that when the prosecution pressed the manslaughter option that the jury would go for that.

From what I read during the trial the state failed to present any case against Zimmerman.

[SoonerKnight]

Not likely. Private citizen he was not acting as a rep for government. They can attempt to get money from him but I doubt that does any good.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He should prolly move to Canada or somewhere non USA, ASAP.

[cleller]

The jury has spoken. If you don't like it, (like I didn't like the OJ verdict) you have the same recourse. Sit and bitch.

Breaking windows is the Nazi way.

[olevetonahill]

Hope they hurry and give him his Gun back, Got a feeling the Boy gonna need it soon.

Im now wondering if some POed Black thug jumps him and he has to shoot him will they arrest him and try him again?

[cleller]

Hope they hurry and give him his Gun back, Got a feeling the Boy gonna need it soon.

Im now wondering if some POed Black thug jumps him and he has to shoot him will they arrest him and try him again?

I think that would be double jeopardy. Zimmerman was really on trial for murder-at-large against the entire black community. He was a Latino-Israeli commando out for destruction of the whole race.

Lets see what Eric Holder can dream up against him, now.

[SoonerorLater]

I thought for sure that when the prosecution pressed the manslaughter option that the jury would go for that.

From what I read during the trial the state failed to present any case against Zimmerman.

Me too but this is what happens when you prosecute to appease select groups. I thought the jury was looking at it like I was. That Zimmerman played such a great part in advancing the situation that led to Martin's death that it didn't seem quite right for him to just walk away. Maybe if the prosecution would have approached this as voluntary manslaughter from the start Zimmerman would have been convicted of a lesser charge but they didn't because of the flack they would have gotten from the Al Sharptons of the world.

[Harry Beanbag]

So I've seen several Facebook posts regarding the Stand your Ground laws and how people will be boycotting the states that have them, like Florida, until they are repealed. What am I missing? From what I understand, these laws give you the right to defend yourself against an attacker when you are someplace you are legally allowed to be. Why on earth would any sane human being be against these laws? That sounds like the very definition of liberty to me. Is the uproar against them as simple as it looks, blatant racism because of the acquittal of Zimmerman?

[SoonerorLater]

So I've seen several Facebook posts regarding the Stand your Ground laws and how people will be boycotting the states that have them, like Florida, until they are repealed. What am I missing? From what I understand, these laws give you the right to defend yourself against an attacker when you are someplace you are legally allowed to be. Why on earth would any sane human being be against these laws? That sounds like the very definition of liberty to me. Is the uproar against them as simple as it looks, blatant racism because of the acquittal of Zimmerman?

For Al Sharpton and his ilk it's always racism. Ergo if Zimmerman was acquitted it's proof positive of racism in America. For them there is no other explanation. The fact that there are many legal layers to be considered and the difficulty of proving what constitutes self defense means nothing. The Sharpton's of the world didn't want just a fair trial they wanted a conviction. If Zimmerman wasn't convicted then it wasn't a fair trial according to them.

[soonerhubs]

Apparently we live in a world where one can't bash in someone someone's skull with a curb whilst high on weed, without fear of retribution. Zimmerman is an idiot, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking Trayvon was polishing his halo whilst singing hymns that were interrupted by a fatal shot.

[SicEmBaylor]

Trayvon was a wannabe thug and Zimmerman was a wannabe cop -- a bad combo under the best of circumstances.

My guess is that Zimmerman saw a punk *** kid walking around his neighborhood at night, was suspicious, and decided to confront him. Trayvon, the wannabe gangster, probably got up in Zimmerman's face over it. One or the other started the altercation, Trayvon was getting the best of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman defended himself by firing. Whether that was excessive or not is impossible to answer unless you were there.

I think the jury decision was the correct one.

[SoonerorLater]

Trayvon was a wannabe thug and Zimmerman was a wannabe cop -- a bad combo under the best of circumstances.

My guess is that Zimmerman saw a punk *** kid walking around his neighborhood at night, was suspicious, and decided to confront him. Trayvon, the wannabe gangster, probably got up in Zimmerman's face over it. One or the other started the altercation, Trayvon was getting the best of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman defended himself by firing. Whether that was excessive or not is impossible to answer unless you were there.

I think the jury decision was the correct one.

I think it was also. Zimmerman was playing Barney Fife. Wannabe gangster Martin wasn't having any part of it and he started tearing Zimmerman a new one. Zimmerman got his gun and shot him. What is so tough for me here is that Zimmerman was really the nexus that started the chain of events.

[SicEmBaylor]

I think it was also. Zimmerman was playing Barney Fife. Wannabe gangster Martin wasn't having any part of it and he started tearing Zimmerman a new one. Zimmerman got his gun and shot him. What is so tough for me here is that Zimmerman was really the nexus that started the chain of events.

I agree with that; however, nothing Zimmerman did was technically against the law or illegal (as far as I understand it). He exercised some poor judgement in retrospect but nothing that meets the criteria for second degree murder.

[BoulderSooner79]

So I've seen several Facebook posts regarding the Stand your Ground laws and how people will be boycotting the states that have them, like Florida, until they are repealed. What am I missing? From what I understand, these laws give you the right to defend yourself against an attacker when you are someplace you are legally allowed to be. Why on earth would any sane human being be against these laws? That sounds like the very definition of liberty to me. Is the uproar against them as simple as it looks, blatant racism because of the acquittal of Zimmerman?

I suspect what people are reacting to is the unintended consequences of the law. The right to defends oneself makes perfect sense. But should that be extended to mean you can legally harass someone until you provoke an attack and then defend yourself? Especially if the harasser is armed and the harassee is not? Had it been Zimmerman who died, I think Martin would have protected by the Stand your Ground law to the point he would not have even been charged. To me, there was clearly wrong doing on Zimmerman's part, but I don't doubt the jury got it right. The law just may not cover the situation. I seriously doubt Stand your Grand laws will be repealed, but I could see some of them refined a bit.

[cleller]

Hopefully now that the verdict is in, those who were so quick to pre-judge Zimmerman because of his race will allow that the jury has the best and last voice.

[olevetonahill]

Hopefully now that the verdict is in, those who were so quick to pre-judge Zimmerman because of his race will allow that the jury has the best and last voice.

Whats sad bro is the ****ing Dispatcher is the one who brot up Race Not Zimmerman
Yet every one because of NBC and their Race Inciting slant of **** Believe it was Zimmerman. No one mentions Him opening a Business in like 04 or sompun with a Black Friend as a Partner.


NBC can DIAF after this crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RvnQJdPgLM

Heres the Transcript of the original 911 call

Notice the dispatcher ask him what race is the Suspicious dude.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

[rock on sooner]

What nobody seems to remember is that Z took a black girl to his prom and was
a foster brother to black kids in his own home (according to his stud lawyer), so,
imo, to bring race into it is bovine scatology. His lawyer said that race was in it
from the beginning, no question, though.

I watched ABC, CBS and NBC talking heads this A.M. EVERY black interviewed
expressed the opinion that justice was not served...Sharpton busily fanned flames,
so did Tavis Smiley (from BET), others, too, whose names I can't recall. There's
talk of civil suits, etc but, I'm guessing, mind you, that most of 'em don't want
to tangle with his lawyer...O'Mara, who was absolutely stellar in closing (I'm not
an attorney, either).

Z made some boneheaded decisions and ignored law enforcement. Had he stayed
in his vehicle and not followed would have been no trial...that's coulda, shoulda,
woulda. My opinion is the jury made the right call...the state did NOT

[rock on sooner]

prove their charges.

[olevetonahill]

What nobody seems to remember is that Z took a black girl to his prom and was
a foster brother to black kids in his own home (according to his stud lawyer), so,
imo, to bring race into it is bovine scatology. His lawyer said that race was in it
from the beginning, no question, though.

I watched ABC, CBS and NBC talking heads this A.M. EVERY black interviewed
expressed the opinion that justice was not served...Sharpton busily fanned flames,
so did Tavis Smiley (from BET), others, too, whose names I can't recall. There's
talk of civil suits, etc but, I'm guessing, mind you, that most of 'em don't want
to tangle with his lawyer...O'Mara, who was absolutely stellar in closing (I'm not
an attorney, either).

Z made some boneheaded decisions and ignored law enforcement. Had he stayed
in his vehicle and not followed would have been no trial...that's coulda, shoulda,
woulda. My opinion is the jury made the right call...the state did NOT



"Z made some boneheaded decisions and ignored law enforcement. Had he stayed
in his vehicle and not followed "

He DID NOT IGNORE LAW ENFORCEMENT bro
a ****ing Dispatcher is NOT a cop.

Read the Transcript. I will agree that he made some Bone headed decisions, But M should have gotten off the ****ing phone with his fat assed GF and Called 911 himself, Instead Of deciding to Tackle " Some Crazy Assed Cracker" ( his words)

Ill post the link for the transcript again, Forget NBC sayin the shat you keep spouting and READ

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

[rock on sooner]

I didn't realize that a dispatcher is NOT law enforcement. I guess if I'm talking
to a police number that I called and someone on that end tells me that "we don't
need you to do that" (follow M) and I ignore that that I made a decision to ignore
the police. Repeating what I said earlier "the state did not prove its case". Now
one Harvard law professor is calling for federal investigation into prosecutorial
misconduct, since, apparently, they withheld evidence from the defense (and the
judge, I think.)

[olevetonahill]

I didn't realize that a dispatcher is NOT law enforcement. I guess if I'm talking
to a police number that I called and someone on that end tells me that "we don't
need you to do that" (follow M) and I ignore that that I made a decision to ignore
the police. Repeating what I said earlier "the state did not prove its case". Now
one Harvard law professor is calling for federal investigation into prosecutorial
misconduct, since, apparently, they withheld evidence from the defense (and the
judge, I think.)

SIGH, 911 Is NOT a "Police Number" any more than it is a "Fire Dept" Number or an "Ambulance " number. The Dispatcher on that end is TRAINED to get you the help of whaever sort you need..

A cop in todays service has to go thru something like a 320(Not sure exact) hours training course and be certified. a 911 dispatcher goes thru maybe 40 hours and May or may not be certified depending on the local requirements.

As far as Z "Ignoring" Him, from what I read he said "OK" and was returning to his truck.

[rock on sooner]

I dint realize until just now that Z had called 911. I thought he'd called a number
similar to what we have here in Des Moines, which is a direct police number that
is not emergency, established just for neighborhood watches, etc. Apologies for
being dense in that respect...

[rock on sooner]

And before anyone sez it, I carry the number on me and in my car. There's a lot of
problems with 911 being overused....

[olevetonahill]

I dint realize until just now that Z had called 911. I thought he'd called a number
similar to what we have here in Des Moines, which is a direct police number that
is not emergency, established just for neighborhood watches, etc. Apologies for
being dense in that respect...

Even at that, Most Police dispatchers are not certified cops. Or at least they wernt back in da day when I was a Cop. Prolly wouldnt hurt for you to find out if they are or not.

[jkjsooner]

So I've seen several Facebook posts regarding the Stand your Ground laws and how people will be boycotting the states that have them, like Florida, until they are repealed. What am I missing? From what I understand, these laws give you the right to defend yourself against an attacker when you are someplace you are legally allowed to be. Why on earth would any sane human being be against these laws? That sounds like the very definition of liberty to me. Is the uproar against them as simple as it looks, blatant racism because of the acquittal of Zimmerman?

I think there are many problems with these laws. I think there is a real concern that ordinary confrontations can turn deadly and the deadly force can simply be excused based on these laws.

Take the following scenario:

A starts a confrontation with B (who is unarmed)
The confrontation becomes physical
B gets the best of A
A shoots and kills B

Stand your ground could easily be argued when normal fist fights become deadly.

In addition, some don't think there's a strong enough test for when someone feels their life is in danger. If you shoot someone (especially someone unarmed) it's not enough to claim that you thought your life was in danger. You should have to show that a reasonable person would feel that way - not just that you felt that way.

As a last point, when two people get into a confrontation and one shoots the other, it becomes almost impossible to prove that the shooter did not feel threatened. All someone has to do is say that the other person threatened his life and that would be enough reasonable doubt. When you merge the concept of burden of proof with the stand your ground laws it opens up a big can of worms.


We'll see how the Dunn/Davis case ends up. If Dunn can get off after approaching Davis' car and firing multiple shots in the car (because he said he saw a shotgun and felt threatened by it) then we'll know that the law is completely flawed.

[jkjsooner]

I could go for stand your ground type laws if there were additional caveats put in place.

1. If you played a roll in starting the conflict, the law should not apply. At that point you should be forced to show that you were facing an overwhelming threat and retreat was not an option.

2. The defendant should have to show that the threat was legitimate and not just perceived.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

There was wrong on both sides, the verdict was correct though... Zimmerman was stupid to followMartin was wrong to jump Zimmerman, he was only a few (some number) yards from his house.What the press won't tell you: the evidence implies, Martin was high on dope.What the press won't tell you: Martin was trying to buy some cigars for a blunt, the store cashier denied that, the guys entering after he left bought them with money that looked like Martin's. Martin left after the guys left the store and they met up with Martin.Skittles and Watermelon flavored Arizona Tea are ingredients to make Lean (or Drank), which when ingested can make people paranoid or hallucinate. These are definitely what he had on his person.Trayvon was not a Boy Scout or the good boy, honor student.Formatting does not seem to work...

[rock on sooner]

THA, interesting, I'd read a good deal about this trial and hadn't run
across that...seems like if that'd become more out in the public maybe
some of the protests would melt away....

[cleller]

So what can be done to stop this rampant racism? Here we have a man acquitted by a jury in our most sacred form of justice: trial by a jury of your peers. Yet still racists are allowed to assemble, protest, threaten, destroy property, and sometimes become violent towards police or those that disagree with them.

Very ugly.

[olevetonahill]

There was wrong on both sides, the verdict was correct though... Zimmerman was stupid to followMartin was wrong to jump Zimmerman, he was only a few (some number) yards from his house.What the press won't tell you: the evidence implies, Martin was high on dope.What the press won't tell you: Martin was trying to buy some cigars for a blunt, the store cashier denied that, the guys entering after he left bought them with money that looked like Martin's. Martin left after the guys left the store and they met up with Martin.Skittles and Watermelon flavored Arizona Tea are ingredients to make Lean (or Drank), which when ingested can make people paranoid or hallucinate. These are definitely what he had on his person.Trayvon was not a Boy Scout or the good boy, honor student.Formatting does not seem to work...

Dint have a clue about that Drank shat. Just googled it

http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=75112

[rock on sooner]

So what can be done to stop this rampant racism? Here we have a man acquitted by a jury in our most sacred form of justice: trial by a jury of your peers. Yet still racists are allowed to assemble, protest, threaten, destroy property, and sometimes become violent towards police or those that disagree with them.

Very ugly.
Aint a chance in hell of changing this stuff, truly a sad state of affairs. Z did wrong,
M was worse. Not sure if it will ever change....grew up in cotton/hay fields with guys
that called each other all those bad words, usually with a smile....once in a while it
got outa hand. The good ole US of A, with all its free speech/thought will never allow
any change, just cause we can....don't see any way out of it....somebody enlighten
me, if you have a solution........

[cleller]

More from the racists: blocking traffic, raiding stores, breaking windows. Disgusting. Should not be tolerated, spreading this kind of hate.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-protesters-raid-la-store-075210080.html

[olevetonahill]

More from the racists: blocking traffic, raiding stores, breaking windows. Disgusting. Should not be tolerated, spreading this kind of hate.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-protesters-raid-la-store-075210080.html

The jacksons/sharpstons .Crazy assed Lib media will not rest until they can blow this up into full scale race riots ALA Rodney King.

[pphilfran]

This was not a stand your ground case....

[pphilfran]

2. The defendant should have to show that the threat was legitimate and not just perceived.

How would one do this? Do you have to die to prove the threat? Or would simply being brain dead be acceptable...


Again, the defense did not use stand your ground in this case...

[olevetonahill]

How would one do this? Do you have to die to prove the threat? Or would simply being brain dead be acceptable...


Again, the defense did not use stand your ground in this case...

The Defense didnt really have to do ****. Since the Prosecutors didnt PROVE anything.

[pphilfran]

The Defense didnt really have to do ****. Since the Prosecutors didnt PROVE anything.

Even Matlock could have won this case....

[olevetonahill]

Even Matlock could have won this case....

http://billnance.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/image_thumb7.png

[rock on sooner]

Welp, this ol man only shakes his head and wonders how on earth people
cook up all the different stuff like Drank, etc. Wonder how many people have
died or become vegetables experimenting....amazing....

[TheHumanAlphabet]

THA, interesting, I'd read a good deal about this trial and hadn't run
across that...seems like if that'd become more out in the public maybe
some of the protests would melt away....


Rock... This has always been about race. "White" Hispanic - WTF??? Is The Socialist the first white/black president? How about mulatto president??? This is about absent parents (or mother) and the break down of the nuclear family by blacks and the lack of parental fortitude by the sperm donor and the incubator... The press wants race riots as that will sell...it is about reparations, how else can you even attempt to discuss the looting of the Walmart...Oooh, there was a trial decision about something I had no earthly connection...I don't agree, so I gets to loot something...

[rock on sooner]

THA, you misunderstand my post, I was referring to the Drank ingredients.
Absolutely no question about race involvement, it was on the phone transcripts.
Your points are excellent about family breakdown, etc...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Rock, sorry, not to be picky at you...

THere is so much that isn't being spoken about regarding this case... The outrage is false, it is not about the case it is about other things... Ole community activist q-tip shut down 288 with his protest march yesterday here in Houston. You read about all these protests across the country just makes me sick at all the uniformed or as Rush calls them the low info voters...Stupid people. and they vote!

[rock on sooner]

Personally, I think the majority of those protesting just want an excuse
to break something and go looting. Most interviewed at the protests
expressed valid opinions but, as you say, the media keeps the attention
on the violence. On one point I disagree, though....those that do the
breaking/looting rarely visit polling places...

[okie52]

Even Matlock could have won this case....

Heh heh...

Matlock may have found a new home....

[TheHumanAlphabet]

On one point I disagree, though....those that do the
breaking/looting rarely visit polling places...

You probably have a point there... They may not be physically present, but may be voting...;)

[jkjsooner]

How would one do this? Do you have to die to prove the threat? Or would simply being brain dead be acceptable...

No, you don't. Just use the same test they use in a lot of legal tests - would a rational person feel that his/her life was in jeopardy? If you're a paranoid fool you shouldn't be able to use stand your ground as an excuse to kill someone.

Most of us have been in a fight or two in our lives. (I haven't as an adult but I see nothing in the law that would exclude one minor from using SYG against another.) I'd hate to think that had I gotten the best of the other guy I could justifiably be shot. That is what many police in Florida have said can happen with SYG.

What the NRA should be concerned with is that in some cases a gun in the opponent's possession (not being pointed) has been argued as justification for SYG. If this argument flies (and I suspect it won't) then it does much more harm than good to the open carry advocates.


Again, the defense did not use stand your ground in this case...

Why don't you tell Harry that? I didn't say it had anything to do with the Zimmerman case. I was just responding to his post as a side discussion.

[okie52]

No, you don't. Just use the same test they use in a lot of legal tests - would a rational person feel that his/her life was in jeopardy? If you're a paranoid fool you shouldn't be able to use stand your ground as an excuse to kill someone.

Most of us have been in a fight or two in our lives. (I haven't as an adult but I see nothing in the law that would exclude one minor from using SYG against another.) I'd hate to think that had I gotten the best of the other guy I could justifiably be shot. That is what many police in Florida have said can happen with SYG.

What the NRA should be concerned with is that in some cases a gun in the opponent's possession (not being pointed) has been argued as justification for SYG. If this argument flies (and I suspect it won't) then it does much more harm than good to the open carry advocates.



Why don't you tell Harry that? I didn't say it had anything to do with the Zimmerman case. I was just responding to his post as a side discussion.

“An armed society is a polite society" -Robert A. Heinlein

[pphilfran]

No, you don't. Just use the same test they use in a lot of legal tests - would a rational person feel that his/her life was in jeopardy? If you're a paranoid fool you shouldn't be able to use stand your ground as an excuse to kill someone.

Most of us have been in a fight or two in our lives. (I haven't as an adult but I see nothing in the law that would exclude one minor from using SYG against another.) I'd hate to think that had I gotten the best of the other guy I could justifiably be shot. That is what many police in Florida have said can happen with SYG.

What the NRA should be concerned with is that in some cases a gun in the opponent's possession (not being pointed) has been argued as justification for SYG. If this argument flies (and I suspect it won't) then it does much more harm than good to the open carry advocates.



Why don't you tell Harry that? I didn't say it had anything to do with the Zimmerman case. I was just responding to his post as a side discussion.

When you are getting your head pounded it can be difficult to be "rational"....

Being a paranoid fool has nothing to do with it....

With or without stand your ground it can be difficult to determine the amount of force (or threat) that was happening at that moment....that is why we have trials and a jury of peers to go over all evidence and decide the outcome...

[pphilfran]

I don't understand why the law was put into place to begin with...

If I believe that I am in the path of severe injury or death I am going to do whatever it takes to stop either of those from happening....the last ****ing thing on my mind is some ambiguous law that would make my actions legal....

Now, if after the fact I try to use the law to justify my actions then it is up to the authorities and the courts to determine if my reasoning, while under duress, is sound...

[jkjsooner]

“An armed society is a polite society" -Robert A. Heinlein

I would think the Dunn/Davis case indicates something different. Dunn wasn't very polite when he filled the car Davis was in with bullets.

Without weapons involved Dunn and Davis would have argued over the volume of the music or even more likely Dunn would not have had the "courage" to approach Davis's car.

Ironically, Dunn is arguing that there was a shotgun in Davis's car. The facts don't substantiate this but if true then the presence of each weapon contributed to the massacre.

[okie52]

Was the shotgun fired or even displayed in a threatening manner?

I would certainly think that a society that believes every citizen is possibly/probably armed would be a polite society. I know I would pick my battles very carefully.

[jkjsooner]

When you are getting your head pounded it can be difficult to be "rational"....

Again, I'm avoiding the Zimmerman case as this discussion has turned to a general stand your ground argument.

I think we've all seen pretty brutal fights as kids. I'm glad the loser didn't pull a gun when the winner was kicking his face in. I don't know what Florida's stand your ground law says when it's a mutual fight where one person gets the upper hand on the other. I just hope in cases like that the threshold would be very large. This is especially true since stand your ground only applies when one has the opportunity to retreat.


Being a paranoid fool has nothing to do with it....

Yes it does. A paranoid person could feel his life is in jeopardy when it is not reasonable to feel that way. I'm not sure why that is hard to understand. A paranoid person might feel his life is in jeopardy when he's having a verbal argument with a person who has a open carry permit / weapon.

It's been a while since I've seen the Florida statute. It might use a "reasonable" test but it hasn't been reported in the media that way.


With or without stand your ground it can be difficult to determine the amount of force (or threat) that was happening at that moment....that is why we have trials and a jury of peers to go over all evidence and decide the outcome...

The problem is that with stand your ground you don't have the obligation to retreat. Sure if someone is assaulting you with a weapon then it's not reasonable for you to retreat but I doubt the courts would have ruled that you had the opportunity to retreat.

If you are in a fist fight and you have the opportunity to retreat then I think you should have the obligation to do so.

[jkjsooner]

Was the shotgun fired or even displayed in a threatening manner?

I believe Dunn just said he saw the weapon - which probably didn't even exist.

I'd pass off this case as a desperate ploy by Dunn (who was drunk at the time, didn't report the shooting, drove to his hotel room and ordered pizza) to get off with murder but if you read the comments on news articles there are a ton of people arguing in his favor. It's sickening.

[olevetonahill]

No, you don't. Just use the same test they use in a lot of legal tests - would a rational person feel that his/her life was in jeopardy? If you're a paranoid fool you shouldn't be able to use stand your ground as an excuse to kill someone.

Most of us have been in a fight or two in our lives. (I haven't as an adult but I see nothing in the law that would exclude one minor from using SYG against another.) I'd hate to think that had I gotten the best of the other guy I could justifiably be shot. That is what many police in Florida have said can happen with SYG.

What the NRA should be concerned with is that in some cases a gun in the opponent's possession (not being pointed) has been argued as justification for SYG. If this argument flies (and I suspect it won't) then it does much more harm than good to the open carry advocates.



Why don't you tell Harry that? I didn't say it had anything to do with the Zimmerman case. I was just responding to his post as a side discussion.

My suggestion is if you dont want yer assblowed away, Dont try pounding someones head into the side walk

[pphilfran]

Again, I'm avoiding the Zimmerman case as this discussion has turned to a general stand your ground argument.

I think we've all seen pretty brutal fights as kids. I'm glad the loser didn't pull a gun when the winner was kicking his face in. I don't know what Florida's stand your ground law says when it's a mutual fight where one person gets the upper hand on the other. I just hope in cases like that the threshold would be very large. This is especially true since stand your ground only applies when one has the opportunity to retreat.



Yes it does. A paranoid person could feel his life is in jeopardy when it is not reasonable to feel that way. I'm not sure why that is hard to understand. A paranoid person might feel his life is in jeopardy when he's having a verbal argument with a person who has a open carry permit / weapon.

It's been a while since I've seen the Florida statute. It might use a "reasonable" test but it hasn't been reported in the media that way.



The problem is that with stand your ground you don't have the obligation to retreat. Sure if someone is assaulting you with a weapon then it's not reasonable for you to retreat but I doubt the courts would have ruled that you had the opportunity to retreat.

If you are in a fist fight and you have the opportunity to retreat then I think you should have the obligation to do so.

I can see your point on the retreat...

[pphilfran]

I believe Dunn just said he saw the weapon - which probably didn't even exist.

I'd pass off this case as a desperate ploy by Dunn (who was drunk at the time, didn't report the shooting, drove to his hotel room and ordered pizza) to get off with murder but if you read the comments on news articles there are a ton of people arguing in his favor. It's sickening.

I think he is going to be toast....but I know little other than what is in the article....

[olevetonahill]

I can see your point on the retreat...

As Our old Buddy AlbqSooner used to say. "Dont pick a fight with an OLD man, He will just shoot you." I aint retreatin from NO ONE. they come after this Old man they best be at peace with their maker.

[rock on sooner]

As Our old Buddy AlbqSooner used to say. "Dont pick a fight with an OLD man, He will just shoot you." I aint retreatin from NO ONE. they come after this Old man they best be at peace with their maker.

That'd be a reasonable statement. Ima of the notion that ifn I can I WILL
do serious harm close in. I don't carry now but I still 'member a few things
from my kids martial arts stuff, since I helped teach 'em...jus sayin'...

[jkjsooner]

As Our old Buddy AlbqSooner used to say. "Dont pick a fight with an OLD man, He will just shoot you." I aint retreatin from NO ONE. they come after this Old man they best be at peace with their maker.

I'm not picking a fight with anyone - especially an "old man."

But this does explain why I have a problem with stand your ground. Let's say you're a young guy and we get in an argument and it slowly progresses from verbal to shoving to punching. If you've played your own role in escalating the conflict, I think you should have lost your ability to make a self defense claim unless I pull a weapon on you or take action that most would feel is out of line and a serious threat to your life. (Given, pounding your head into the concrete probably does fit this category.) If you're going into the fight emboldened because you have a gun then there's a problem. We need to teach people to avoid conflict rather than feel they can engage and respond with lethal force if the conflict escalates beyond what they feel comfortable with.

There have been reports of incidents just like this in Florida. There have also been reportings of gang members shooting rival gang members and then claiming that they had to do so in self defense. I think these cases are exactly why the retreat if possible was put into place hundreds of years ago. It's hard to make these dubious arguments when you have the obligation to retreat if possible. I imagine that many of these arguments will not fly in the courts but prosecutors have said that stand your ground makes their job much more difficult even for these dubious cases.

I also want to add that George Zimmerman's attorney said last night that he has problems with Florida's stand your ground law. I'm sure he wouldn't have said that publicly had he needed to use it in Zimmerman's case but since he didn't he was able to speak freely about it.

[olevetonahill]

I'm not picking a fight with anyone - especially an "old man."

But this does explain why I have a problem with stand your ground. Let's say you're a young guy and we get in an argument and it slowly progresses from verbal to shoving to punching. If you've played your own role in escalating the conflict, I think you should have lost your ability to make a self defense claim unless I pull a weapon on you or take action that most would feel is out of line and a serious threat to your life. (Given, pounding your head into the concrete probably does fit this category.) If you're going into the fight emboldened because you have a gun then there's a problem.
We need to teach people to avoid conflict rather than feel they can engage and respond with lethal force if the conflict escalates beyond what they feel comfortable with.

There have been reports of incidents just like this in Florida. There have also been reportings of gang members shooting rival gang members and then claiming that they had to do so in self defense. I think these cases are exactly why the retreat if possible was put into place hundreds of years ago. It's hard to make these dubious arguments when you have the obligation to retreat if possible.

I also want to add that George Zimmerman's attorney said last night that he has problems with Florida's stand your ground law. I'm sure he wouldn't have said that publicly had he needed to use it in Zimmerman's case but since he didn't he was able to speak freely about it.

Yup Teach folk to mind their own ****ing business, Leave other folk alone and dont be upset when ya get yer assblowed away when ya dont.

Most Older folk aint gonna Give no ****, They aint gonna TAKE any either tho.

[olevetonahill]

That'd be a reasonable statement. Ima of the notion that ifn I can I WILL
do serious harm close in. I don't carry now but I still 'member a few things
from my kids martial arts stuff, since I helped teach 'em...jus sayin'...

If you know some one is Intent to start crap with you, HIT FIRST and Hit Vicious, They aint no FAIR in a ****ing fight

[rock on sooner]

If you know some one is Intent to start crap with you, HIT FIRST and Hit Vicious, They aint no FAIR in a ****ing fight

Yup, ifn ya caint stand, ya caint fight. Ifn ya caint breathe, ya caint fight.
Ifn ya caint talk/yell, ya caint git help. BTW, all that can happen in 8-10
seconds....:untroubled:

[olevetonahill]

Yup, ifn ya caint stand, ya caint fight. Ifn ya caint breathe, ya caint fight.
Ifn ya caint talk/yell, ya caint git help. BTW, all that can happen in 8-10
seconds....:untroubled:

Dayum Im old but I aint that slow.

[Wishboned]

If they acquit him they best give him back his gun cause he gonna need it.

http://twitchy.com/2013/06/27/ima-kill-me-a-cracka-death-threats-against-george-zimmerman-random-white-people-explode-during-trial/?utm_source=autotweet&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter

It doesn't look like he'll be getting his gun back anytime soon.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sanford-police-george-zimmerman-gun-20130718,0,7954670.story

Because if at first you don't convict
call Eric Holder cause he's a dick.

[olevetonahill]

It doesn't look like he'll be getting his gun back anytime soon.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sanford-police-george-zimmerman-gun-20130718,0,7954670.story

Because if at first you don't convict
call Eric Holder cause he's a dick.

Just saw that. Guess I best be getting ready to donate more to Zimmermans defense.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000184048

Sir Charles shows wisdom here.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Wonder where Hawaii .5 and all of her "he's a racist murderer" comments are?

[olevetonahill]

Wonder where Hawaii .5 and all of her "he's a racist murderer" comments are?

H20 Aint been around the Obammyfest forum for quite some time.

[hawaii 5-0]

H20 Aint been around the Obammyfest forum for quite some time.



I decided awhile back I'm a lot happier without the arguments that degenerate into personal attacks.

It's much easier to put in my 2 cents and move along.

About the trial..... my feelings haven't changed. People get away with all sorts of stuff, especially if they have a good legal team.

This whole mess coulda been avoided if George had rolled down his window, identified himself as the Neighborhood Watch Captain and offered to give Martin a ride home since it was raining.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

I decided awhile back I'm a lot happier without the arguments that degenerate into personal attacks.

It's much easier to put in my 2 cents and move along.

About the trial..... my feelings haven't changed. People get away with all sorts of stuff, especially if they have a good legal team.


This whole mess coulda been avoided if George had rolled down his window, identified himself as the Neighborhood Watch Captain and offered to give Martin a ride home since it was raining.

5-0

Your such a
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaJEvj7-QHOpUaOuHjPmjG7PRuvSnHNDLdF4l3HjZokUFuraMY

[hawaii 5-0]

Your such a
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaJEvj7-QHOpUaOuHjPmjG7PRuvSnHNDLdF4l3HjZokUFuraMY


"I decided awhile back I'm a lot happier without the arguments that degenerate into personal attacks."



Thanks for making my point.

"If the shoe fits"

(you post some fun pictures, tho)


5-0

[olevetonahill]

"I decided awhile back I'm a lot happier without the arguments that degenerate into personal attacks."



Thanks for making my point.

"If the shoe fits"

(you post some fun pictures, tho)


5-0

That wernt a "Personal attack" That was a statement of fact.

You did state a Very simplistic scenario to have avoided the TM Death.

Hell It could have been avoided if they had sat around a campfire making Smores and singin Kumbaya.

[soonerhubs]

... Or if martin hadn't violently attacked an armed man.

Speculation goes many directions here.

[soonerhubs]

The fact that people are crying racism on so many limited facts is evidence of this country's lack of critical thinkers.

[yermom]

still, the moral of the story is "don't be a dick"

sometimes you run into another dick, and the dick without the gun probably loses.

Zimmerman may have acted legally, but if he had gone another way, maybe he wouldn't have a good chunk of the country up his *** right now

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

still, the moral of the story is "don't be a dick"

sometimes you run into another dick, and the dick without the gun probably loses.

Zimmerman may have acted legally, but if he had gone another way, maybe he wouldn't have a good chunk of the country up his *** right nowHeck yeah, and if Zimmerman had been a black man, there wouldn't even have been a story of any import, let alone a murder trial.

[yermom]

don't get me wrong, the idiots making it about race are still dumb, but it really doesn't matter.

of course, if Zimmerman was black, St. Martin might not have jumped him

[olevetonahill]

Heh, IF a Frog wasnt Green it would be some other color.