Reagan's Shining City on a Hill

[SanJoaquinSooner]

332QeTNmfh8

[okie52]

Ronnie forgot to thank the Hispanics for showing their profound gratitude for amnesty...by giving daddy bush 30% of their vote.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Ronnie forgot to thank the Hispanics for showing their profound gratitude for amnesty...by giving daddy bush 30% of their vote.

Thirty percent? That's too high! We need to drive that down to single digits!

Signed,

Michele Bachmann, Grand Old Party

[okie52]

Thirty percent? That's too high! We need to drive that down to single digits!

Signed,

Michele Bachmann, Grand Old Party

Probably won't do much better than single digits when the illegals get a taste of the government tit.

[okie52]

juan...another president just for you


Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an American – January 3, 1919

“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, and American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding house; and we have room for but one soul[sic] loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

I know you are on board with Teddy, eh juan?

[SicEmBaylor]

Immigration reform horrifies and disgusts me to the point that I feel like I'm losing my own personal identity as an American. Make no mistake -- if this immigration bill passes then you might as well just give up on this country. Burn the house down and start over.

[okie52]

Immigration reform horrifies and disgusts me to the point that I feel like I'm losing my own personal identity as an American. Make no mistake -- if this immigration bill passes then you might as well just give up on this country. Burn the house down and start over.

Even if it doesn't pass remember those that tried to sell out the country...the McCains, the Grahams, the Rubios, the Flakes, the Bushs, the US Chamber of Commerce, the Norquists, maybe even Rand Paul, et al...

[KantoSooner]

Immigration reform horrifies and disgusts me to the point that I feel like I'm losing my own personal identity as an American. Make no mistake -- if this immigration bill passes then you might as well just give up on this country. Burn the house down and start over.

What is your personal identity as an American? Just curious to see what's important to you. And how immigrants are taking it away from you.

[OU68]

What is your personal identity as an American? Just curious to see what's important to you. And how immigrants are taking it away from you.

Hell, I'll jump in on this one. I'm an American, not a Hispanic-American, Asian-American, African-American, ?????-American - just plain old American who is pissed about having to punch 1 for English.

[okie52]

Hell, I'll jump in on this one. I'm an American, not a Hispanic-American, Asian-American, African-American, ?????-American - just plain old American who is pissed about having to punch 1 for English.

Well you are very insensitive to those noble invaders that are demanding their rights as American trespassers.

[rock on sooner]

juan...another president just for you



I know you are on board with Teddy, eh juan?

Hey Okie, question fer ya...What do you think the reaction/fallout
would be if a party/national leader came out with the stance Teddy
presented 94 years ago?

[okie52]

Hey Okie, question fer ya...What do you think the reaction/fallout
would be if a party/national leader came out with the stance Teddy
presented 94 years ago?

Are there any with that kind of backbone now?

[rock on sooner]

Are there any with that kind of backbone now?

Well, I can think of a few people who would say it, but whether or not
those people are considered leaders is another question.

[okie52]

Well, I can think of a few people who would say it, but whether or not
those people are considered leaders is another question.

Kind of how PC gets hold of something. AP dropping illegal from immigrant, for example.

[SicEmBaylor]

What is your personal identity as an American? Just curious to see what's important to you. And how immigrants are taking it away from you.

I'll be blunt -- the people who colonized, fought for independence, and created this country. My ancestors were Anglo-Saxon who arrived 1 and 2 decades (respectively) prior to the Revolution. Who do I identify with? My American identity is with the white Europeans who wanted to create a nation built upon individual liberty, the rule of law, and principles learned from the European enlightenment....especially British ideas of law and justice.

That's who identify with. Third world immigrants are going to destroy this country by bringing a world view that is inconsistent with that which our founding fathers created and established. There is a reason the third world countries they came from are **** holes -- the only thing immigrants do is bring those problems here. They need to stay in their own country and fix those places first.

It's also an economic issue. We have 350 million people in this country and unemployment is almost 10% with a struggling economy. The absolute last thing we need to do is suddenly legalize millions of mostly untrained, unskilled, and uneducated workers.

[okie52]

I'll be blunt -- the people who colonized, fought for independence, and created this country. My ancestors were Anglo-Saxon who arrived 1 and 2 decades (respectively) prior to the Revolution. Who do I identify with? My American identity is with the white Europeans who wanted to create a nation built upon individual liberty, the rule of law, and principles learned from the European enlightenment....especially British ideas of law and justice.

That's who identify with. Third world immigrants are going to destroy this country by bringing a world view that is inconsistent with that which our founding fathers created and established. There is a reason the third world countries they came from are **** holes -- the only thing immigrants do is bring those problems here. They need to stay in their own country and fix those places first.

It's also an economic issue. We have 350 million people in this country and unemployment is almost 10% with a struggling economy. The absolute last thing we need to do is suddenly legalize millions of mostly untrained, unskilled, and uneducated workers.

True...but rather insensitive of you to point it out.

juan has feelings, too.

[Turd_Ferguson]

True...but rather insensitive of you to point it out.

juan has feelings, too.

**** Juan and the wet back he rode in on...

[okie52]

**** Juan and the wet back he rode in on...

Heh...now I think you've topped Sicem

[SicEmBaylor]

True...but rather insensitive of you to point it out.

juan has feelings, too.

I think if you compare what western European culture has built v. what latino culture has "built" there is little comparison. They have no regard for the rule of law, they are a filthy people, they lack ingenuity, and they are not 'wired' with a sufficient respect for individual-liberty and limited-government. The problem is that their culture is so engrained with Catholicism that they naturally accept a single strong leader to rule over them...whether it be in the purely political or spiritual realm. They look at banana republic dictators in the same way they look at the Pope.

HOWEVER, as a practical matter my problem with immigration extends well beyond latinos. I don't want blonde haired blue eyed Scandinavians flooding our country with their democratic-socialist politics....not that they are or would of course since they've actually managed to build a thriving and advanced society for themselves. It isn't my cup of tea, but it works for them.

My message is a simple one: Get the **** out and stay the **** out.

[OU68]

My message is a simple one: Get the **** out and stay the **** out.

And all the people said: AMEN!!

[okie52]

I think if you compare what western European culture has built v. what latino culture has "built" there is little comparison. They have no regard for the rule of law, they are a filthy people, they lack ingenuity, and they are not 'wired' with a sufficient respect for individual-liberty and limited-government. The problem is that their culture is so engrained with Catholicism that they naturally accept a single strong leader to rule over them...whether it be in the purely political or spiritual realm. They look at banana republic dictators in the same way they look at the Pope.

HOWEVER, as a practical matter my problem with immigration extends well beyond latinos. I don't want blonde haired blue eyed Scandinavians flooding our country with their democratic-socialist politics....not that they are or would of course since they've actually managed to build a thriving and advanced society for themselves. It isn't my cup of tea, but it works for them.

My message is a simple one: Get the **** out and stay the **** out.

The aztecs, mayans and incas were pretty successful cultures but that was a long time ago.

I do want highly skilled/highly educated immigrants in areas where the US has shortages or has no expertise....kind of like when we got an Einstein or Von Braun from Germany. Cheap labor can be brought in by the truckload if needed but it needs to go back in total when the job is done...and, again, only if labor shortages require it.

[SicEmBaylor]

The aztecs, mayans and incas were pretty successful cultures but that was a long time ago.
That's debatable. For all of their engineering, astrological, and agricultural skills, they still never grasped basic concepts like the wheel. Nor did they advance beyond their loin-cloth in the jungle roots. It's almost as if they skipped or missed a few important key pieces of technology while building their civilizations.

Plus, they aren't still here -- we are.


I do want highly skilled/highly educated immigrants in areas where the US has shortages or has no expertise....kind of like when we got an Einstein or Von Braun from Germany.
Einstein was a once in a lifetime type of guy. But keep in mind we mastered the atomic bomb with out Von Braun's help. He sped up our rocket development, but it's nothing we wouldn't or couldn't have engineered ourselves brilliant though he was.

I absolutely disagree about needing skilled immigrants in areas where we're lacking. The United States shouldn't lack for anything. We possess the intelligence and the natural born citizens who are fully capable of going to school to become skilled in those positions that need filling. There is no man power shortage in the country. Where we're lacking is motivating people to enter certain fields and properly educating them.


Cheap labor can be brought in by the truckload if needed but it needs to go back in total when the job is done...and, again, only if labor shortages require it.
There's a 10% unemployment rate in this country. I guarantee if much of the government aid given to those individuals dried up then you'd have Americans wanting those menial labor jobs.

Having said that, in times of a good economy then I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with a very limited guest-worker program that DID NOT include a permanent immigration provision.

[okie52]

That's debatable. For all of their engineering, astrological, and agricultural skills, they still never grasped basic concepts like the wheel. Nor did they advance beyond their loin-cloth in the jungle roots. It's almost as if they skipped or missed a few important key pieces of technology while building their civilizations.

Plus, they aren't still here -- we are.


Einstein was a once in a lifetime type of guy. But keep in mind we mastered the atomic bomb with out Von Braun's help. He sped up our rocket development, but it's nothing we wouldn't or couldn't have engineered ourselves brilliant though he was.

I absolutely disagree about needing skilled immigrants in areas where we're lacking. The United States shouldn't lack for anything. We possess the intelligence and the natural born citizens who are fully capable of going to school to become skilled in those positions that need filling. There is no man power shortage in the country. Where we're lacking is motivating people to enter certain fields and properly educating them.


There's a 10% unemployment rate in this country. I guarantee if much of the government aid given to those individuals dried up then you'd have Americans wanting those menial labor jobs.

Having said that, in times of a good economy then I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with a very limited guest-worker program that DID NOT include a permanent immigration provision.

As we compete globally numbers will make a difference which requires a balancing act for someone like me that is in favor of population reduction. No doubt that ultimately countries like China and India will have greater GDPs than the US...their populations being at least 4-1 over the US will ultimately dictate their larger national GDPs. China and India will also have a much larger pool of "brains" to draw from once they reach any equivolancy with the US in terms of education, technology, industrialization, etc...So for the US to remain at the top it is going to require farming in outside talent to combine with our own to achieve the same advantages of a 1.3 billion plus population without all of the drawbacks of a huge population. I don't even mean that these people have to physical live within the US but as long as we can benefit from their tech advances I want them to be part of the pool.

And to not have many of these "brains" live inside the US would probably be an added benefit...no voting for more socialistic agendas that often dominate the euros, etc...

America can be at the top of the league as long as we have a great farm system.

[KantoSooner]

I'll be blunt -- the people who colonized, fought for independence, and created this country. My ancestors were Anglo-Saxon who arrived 1 and 2 decades (respectively) prior to the Revolution. Who do I identify with? My American identity is with the white Europeans who wanted to create a nation built upon individual liberty, the rule of law, and principles learned from the European enlightenment....especially British ideas of law and justice.

That's who identify with. Third world immigrants are going to destroy this country by bringing a world view that is inconsistent with that which our founding fathers created and established. There is a reason the third world countries they came from are **** holes -- the only thing immigrants do is bring those problems here. They need to stay in their own country and fix those places first.

It's also an economic issue. We have 350 million people in this country and unemployment is almost 10% with a struggling economy. The absolute last thing we need to do is suddenly legalize millions of mostly untrained, unskilled, and uneducated workers.

Can us ScotsIrishGermanCherokees stay or does the indian blood disallow us?

[KantoSooner]

Hell, I'll jump in on this one. I'm an American, not a Hispanic-American, Asian-American, African-American, ?????-American - just plain old American who is pissed about having to punch 1 for English.

I've always been curious abou this one. Why does it upset you to punch one for English? Is it that the option is typically Spanish and you resent Spanish speakers (legal or illegal)? Would it make a difference if you were in, say, upstate New York and the option was Quebecoise French? How about if you called a hotel in Hawaii to make a booking and they had Chinese and Japanese as options?
What is it about customer service that ticks you off?

[SicEmBaylor]

I've always been curious abou this one. Why does it upset you to punch one for English? Is it that the option is typically Spanish and you resent Spanish speakers (legal or illegal)? Would it make a difference if you were in, say, upstate New York and the option was Quebecoise French? How about if you called a hotel in Hawaii to make a booking and they had Chinese and Japanese as options?
What is it about customer service that ticks you off?

Because if you are calling a customer service center for a business based in the United States it should be English and only English. If you live or work in this country you should speak English. No exceptions.

[OU68]

Can us ScotsIrishGermanCherokees stay or does the indian blood disallow us?

Now you're just being silly. I assume you are an English speaking American citizen, but hey, if you want to be referred to as an Scot-Irish-German-Cherokee-American - GFY.

[KantoSooner]

Because if you are calling a customer service center for a business based in the United States it should be English and only English. If you live or work in this country you should speak English. No exceptions.

Oh, so now you're up for telling businesses how to provide customer service? Really? Does that comport with the rest of your 'philosophy'? How about airlines? Should they refuse to have customer service agents available who speak, say German, to deal with customers travelling to or from Germany? Or is it now to be made mandatory to speak the language of any country you travel to before going there? Can you see the utter idiocy of this position?
How about, instead, we allow companies to make up their own minds as to what they feel is economically advantageous in their market?

[KantoSooner]

Now you're just being silly. I assume you are an English speaking American citizen, but hey, if you want to be referred to as an Scot-Irish-German-Cherokee-American - GFY.

Worse yet, I'm so German looking that little old ladies on the streets of Dusseldorf just had to pinch my cheeks as a kid. In a way, I'm more American than any johnny come lately, scurvy, disease-ridden, stunted, criminal reject white European 'colonist' who got here ten thousand plus years after my earliest ancestors did. But let's not go there; though it's fun.
I just find it contemptably funny that we still equate some sort of political outlook on the basis of one's ethnicity. But, hey, if that's the mental dysfunction of the day, so be it.

[okie52]

How would you guess Blacks will vote in the next presidential election?

[KantoSooner]

Oh probably in a similar fashion to the way they have in the past. But that's to confuse cause and effect. For a long while, Black Americans were reliably Republican. It was only when the Republican Party decided that whoring after white Southern bigots was more important, vote-wise, that Blacks abandoned the Republican Party.

[SicEmBaylor]

Oh, so now you're up for telling businesses how to provide customer service? Really? Does that comport with the rest of your 'philosophy'? How about airlines? Should they refuse to have customer service agents available who speak, say German, to deal with customers travelling to or from Germany? Or is it now to be made mandatory to speak the language of any country you travel to before going there? Can you see the utter idiocy of this position?
How about, instead, we allow companies to make up their own minds as to what they feel is economically advantageous in their market?
I never said they should be "forced" to do anything. Nonetheless, there damn well ought to be a universal expectation that people in this country should speak English. It's frustrating when they don't. I'm not a ra-ra pro-big business guy anyway -- I think a lot of what they do is detrimental to American society. Catering to a multi-lingual culture simply gives immigrants additional reason not to learn English.

[KantoSooner]

How about a small business guy, like say a taxi driver going to pick up a fare at the airport? Can he speak Czech to some traveler whose English is maybe not so perfect? Y'know, just as a gesture of kindness, maybe?

[OU68]

I just find it contemptably funny that we still equate some sort of political outlook on the basis of one's ethnicity. But, hey, if that's the mental dysfunction of the day, so be it.

Sorry, guess I'm a little slow - what's the mental dysfunction of thinking Americans should just be Americans, not hyphenated Americans?

[okie52]

Oh probably in a similar fashion to the way they have in the past. But that's to confuse cause and effect. For a long while, Black Americans were reliably Republican. It was only when the Republican Party decided that whoring after white Southern bigots was more important, vote-wise, that Blacks abandoned the Republican Party.

Well lets go with that cause and effect....like the dems have been whoring out to the latinos for decades in spite of laws and the best interests of the country to the contrary...but unlike the blacks the latinos have never been pub voters.

Now which way do you think the latinos will vote?

[KantoSooner]

I think if you compare what western European culture has built v. what latino culture has "built" there is little comparison. They have no regard for the rule of law, they are a filthy people, they lack ingenuity, and they are not 'wired' with a sufficient respect for individual-liberty and limited-government. .

I'm assuming you are lumping the Latin speaking Romans into the 'Latino' category, yes? They are reknowned for their lack of achievement.

[KantoSooner]

Sorry, guess I'm a little slow - what's the mental dysfunction of thinking Americans should just be Americans, not hyphenated Americans?
No worries, that wasn't the point. The point was that we were slipping back down into some racist morass in which only Northwestern Euro's were to be treated as 'real' Americans.

[KantoSooner]

Well lets go with that cause and effect....like the dems have been whoring out to the latinos for decades in spite of laws and the best interests of the country to the contrary...but unlike the blacks the latinos have never been pub voters.

Now which way do you think the latinos will vote?

I think you need ask a Cuban, a Mexican, a Central American or two and so forth. You'll find an interesting mix of opinion, quite a bit to the right of Archie Bunker among the Cubans, for example. And, yes, the Dems have been whoring after this vote, which if approached correctly is probably more naturally republican territory, but we've gone all racist nuts on the Latinos and now have a big repair job to do.

[OU68]

No worries, that wasn't the point. The point was that we were slipping back down into some racist morass in which only Northwestern Euro's were to be treated as 'real' Americans.

Gotcha - I worked with a Mexican lady who came here, became a citizen and rose to a director position for a major newspaper - lovely lady, learned some things from her. No desire to slip into the morass :encouragement:

[okie52]

There's the myth that has crippled Rino's like McCain and Graham's thinking...latino's have never been more in line smaller government thinking like the pubs supposedly are.

Reagan even gave them amnesty in 86 and they still voted 70-30 for Dukakis the next year.

[SicEmBaylor]

How about a small business guy, like say a taxi driver going to pick up a fare at the airport? Can he speak Czech to some traveler whose English is maybe not so perfect? Y'know, just as a gesture of kindness, maybe?
They can do whatever they want. However, this is a totally different situation. First, the Taxi driver is clearly catering to travelers and tourists. Second, when that Polish guy gets into the car it's immediately obvious he's Polish. This doesn't inconvenience an actual English speaking American from having to go through a bull**** menu inquiring as to whether they speak the language of their homeland.

When you go into a Taxi you don't have to sit there and go through a laundry list of languages with the driver in order to establish the fact that you can communicate with him in English.


I'm assuming you are lumping the Latin speaking Romans into the 'Latino' category, yes? They are reknowned for their lack of achievement.
I said 'latinos' not 'latins'. In any case, you know that.

No worries, that wasn't the point. The point was that we were slipping back down into some racist morass in which only Northwestern Euro's were to be treated as 'real' Americans.
Everyone else is just visiting.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

we've gone all racist nuts on the Latinos and now have a big repair job to do.who has done that? the democrats have effectively falsely charged republicans of doing that, driving home accusations of racism when people say we want immigrants to come into the country legally instead of illegally. It's crap, and you know it. Of course, with the Media working in consort with enemies of American laws and order, we have come to where we are now.

[SicEmBaylor]

who has done that? the democrats have effectively falsely charged republicans of doing that, driving home accusations of racism when people say we want immigrants to come into the country legally instead of illegally. It's crap, and you know it. Of course, with the Media working in consort with enemies of American laws and order, we have come to where we are now.
Don't lob me in with those other bull**** conservatives who say they fully support legal immigration. I ****ing do not support legal immigration. I don't support immigration period.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

juan...another president just for you



I know you are on board with Teddy, eh juan?

Yeah, I understand that during the big wave of Ellis Island immigration, there were groups, such as the Germans, who wanted their kids to be taught in segregated German-language schools. But nothing is new here, the immigrants over 35 probably won't master English, but all the kids will.

As for "there is room for only one language" -- kinda silly now. Big advantage knowing more than one language these days.

And I don't understand the hyphenated-phobia. It's a free country with a 1st amendment. If your name is Smith and proclaim yourself a Smith-American, I couldn't care less. How is it skin off my ***? Does it somehow mean you are less loyal?

Why let a bug crawl up your *** if Notre Dame students call themselves the Fighting Irish instead of the Fighting Americans?

Those who assimilate will be, on average, more successful than those who don't. But Big Gov't can't micromanage with whom you become friends, or with whom you go to church, etc. Free markets should dictate. I swear cultural conservatives are control freaks.

[okie52]

Well juan, it makes perfect sense to have one national language that all citizens can read, write and speak. About 92% of Americans speak English. Why on earth would we want to absorb the unnecessary costs of printing all government documents in a variety of languages?

I don't care if a team wants to call themselves the celtics, savages, Vikings or the flying burritos...but if the only way you can identify yourself is as a white American, Mexican American, Afro American or native American when just American would suffice...then I think you are promoting a divided America that will truly never be the socalled melting pot.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Don't lob me in with those other bull**** conservatives who say they fully support legal immigration. I ****ing do not support legal immigration. I don't support immigration period.Nobody I can think of said you support any immigration. And, I promise not to say you do.

[diverdog]

Don't lob me in with those other bull**** conservatives who say they fully support legal immigration. I ****ing do not support legal immigration. I don't support immigration period.

I support stealing the best talent in the world. Where I live we have a lot of Indian immigrants and those folks work like dogs. Plus they do speak English....well sort of.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I hear them mexicans can mow the **** out of a yard.

[OU68]

As for "there is room for only one language" -- kinda silly now. Big advantage knowing more than one language these days.

.

Spanish, Hindi - yeah. But for Chrissake Juan, it would be great if our HS grads spoke three languages, had read all the classics and could play an instrument or were budding scientists, but dammit, we're having trouble figuring out how to get kids out of HS that can read & write!

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Listen to him, Flounder. He's Pre-Med.

Seriously. Why would we consider pushing additional languages to students when most couldn't find their *** with both hands, a map, and a flashlight? Kids are graduating high schools at mindnumbing levels of ignorance. Yet we want them to be able to talk to the gardener because the gardener hasn't made an effort to talk to the guy that's paying his paycheck?

Screw that. Screw that whole principle and those that are pushing it. That's literally the equivalent of coming in my house and not only telling me what should be on my TV, but changing the channel to boot. I don't want to watch gay porn, Juan. I don't like Martha Stewart, Juan. I'll be damned if I'm gonna watch Sabado Gigante, Juan, but stop there for just a second because the chicks have massive cans.

[KantoSooner]

who has done that? the democrats have effectively falsely charged republicans of doing that, driving home accusations of racism when people say we want immigrants to come into the country legally instead of illegally. It's crap, and you know it. Of course, with the Media working in consort with enemies of American laws and order, we have come to where we are now.

Relisten to the debates, Rush. If you don't get a wave of anti-latino (legal, illegal, still in LatinAmerica, whatever) out of our beloved Republican candidates, you weren't listening. The latinos here, who could vote, certainly got the message. In the past, immigrants tended to be more conservative than native born Americans. Mostly because they had been motivated to come toward something...and to leave something else. They were engaged in the American experiment. Today, those who may arrive with that bent are met with a Republican Party that is all but overtly racist toward anyone not in the SicEm sampling group.

Oh, and SicEm, your statement about only NW Euro's being 'real' Americans is perhaps the single most unamerican thing I've seen anyone write. Quite seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[okie52]

Being against illegal immigration=racism

[KantoSooner]

No, hating people because of their ethnic group = racism. pay 'tention.

[okie52]

Please point out where those overtly racist repub presidential candidates were showing their hatred of an ethnic group...or is that only spoken in a code that you could decipher.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Apparently, the future of western civilization rests on Sic 'em's offspring.

[KantoSooner]

I dunno Okie, it was clear to the 70% or so of the Latinos who voted against the ticket...and the majority of Asians who did so....and the majority of blacks who did so..and so forth and so on. When you lose not one, not two, but every non-white voting bloc and then lose white women, too, well, you're in need of a long look in the mirror. Cause some group of somebodies just aren't feeling the love, know what I mean?

Or can't you understand that 'code'?

Don't be disingenuos, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The Republicans have been the party of old, grumpy white men telling the rest of the country to stfu and obey for as long as I've been aware of parties. And it's got to stop or there simply won't be a GOP very much longer.

[okie52]

Well Kanto maybe the real story lies in the fact that Asians, Latinos, Blacks, etc...believe in more and larger government rather than a smaller one. The hispanic vote for pubs has averaged 30% for decades even when ronnie et al were out front championing amnesty. McCain too was pushing it and he only got 30%.

Latinos have already expressed their belief in big government. Asians, for the most part, are from big government cultures.

And, true to form, you got your facts mixed up...again:


In 2004, Bush got fifty-five per cent of the white female vote, and Kerry got forty-four per cent—a “reverse gender gap” (one working in the G.O.P.’s favor) of eleven points. In 2008, McCain got fifty-three per cent of the white female vote, and Obama got forty-six per cent—a gap of seven points. Compared to four years earlier, the reverse gender gap in this demographic had decreased by four points, indicating that the Democrats were making progress in attracting the votes of white women. But this year, that trend turned around again. Far from narrowing further, the reverse gender gap among white women widened to fourteen points. Romney got fifty-six per cent of the white female vote; Obama got just forty-two per cent.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2012/11/why-white-women-voted-for-romney.html

I guess the GOP is the party of grumpy old white men and grumpy old white women.


Besides getting your facts wrong, you don't hesitate to paint those against illegal immigration with a racist brush when your facts are in short supply...an all too common occurrence.

Now come on, Kanto, admit it...you vote for Obama, didn't you?

[olevetonahill]

Apparently, the future of western civilization rests on Sic 'em's offspring.

Then we are DOOMED.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Relisten to the debates, Rush. If you don't get a wave of anti-latino (legal, illegal, still in LatinAmerica, whatever) out of our beloved Republican candidates, you weren't listening. The latinos here, who could vote, certainly got the message. In the past, immigrants tended to be more conservative than native born Americans. Mostly because they had been motivated to come toward something...and to leave something else. They were engaged in the American experiment. Today, those who may arrive with that bent are met with a Republican Party that is all but overtly racist toward anyone not in the SicEm sampling group.

WTF is this all about? People of all backgrounds get their spoonfed crap from the MSM, and believe their lies and nonsense. A bit surprised you buy into it.

[KantoSooner]

Now come on, Kanto, admit it...you vote for Obama, didn't you?

Nope, McCain and then sat out, wanting to vote for Johnson.

And, again, you miss the point, or intentionally avoid it. Who would vote for people who reject them on the basis of who/what they are at birth?

I can understand not playing to people whose vote you've written off already, and demonizing them, but to then blame those same people for being against you is a bit over the top. And when you've demonstrably got less than 50% in your coalition, it's nothing short of suicidal.

[okie52]

Nope, McCain and then sat out, wanting to vote for Johnson.

And, again, you miss the point, or intentionally avoid it. Who would vote for people who reject them on the basis of who/what they are at birth?

I can understand not playing to people whose vote you've written off already, and demonizing them, but to then blame those same people for being against you is a bit over the top. And when you've demonstrably got less than 50% in your coalition, it's nothing short of suicidal.

Blaming what???...an ethnic group that openly supports illegal immigration and to get their support (supposedly) it would require you to support illegal immigration? Let someone else get the credit for that horrid policy.

If the requirement to be elected is to promise something to everyone that ultimately will harm the country then that doesn't seem like an election worth winning. Better to be the minority and champion worthy causes than to sell out the country.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Not only will learning another language facilitate commerce, but also understanding others' sense of humor.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95c_1371654375

[pphilfran]

I am so confused....if learning a second language is so beneficial then why don't we want the immigrants to learn English?

[sappstuf]

I am so confused....if learning a second language is so beneficial then why don't we want the immigrants to learn English?

We should be moving to adopt Spanish and the peso... Otherwise, we are just a bunch of racists.

[cleller]

I am so confused....if learning a second language is so beneficial then why don't we want the immigrants to learn English?


We should be moving to adopt Spanish and the peso... Otherwise, we are just a bunch of racists.

Yeah, this has taken a predictable turn. Either give in to those undermining and violating laws left and right, or you are a racist.

Tiresome brainwashed rhetoric.

[olevetonahill]

I am so confused....if learning a second language is so beneficial then why don't we want the immigrants to learn English?

HEH

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I am so confused....if learning a second language is so beneficial then why don't we want the immigrants to learn English?


Who doesn't want them to learn English?

[Lott's Bandana]

If a person we refer to as black is considered an African-American in some "proper" circles, I've often wondered what black people are called in England or France?

[pphilfran]

Who doesn't want them to learn English?
You are fine with one part of the Path to Citizenship being a basic understanding of English

[SanJoaquinSooner]

You are fine with one part of the Path to Citizenship being a basic understanding of English

Basic understanding of English is already a requirement of Naturalization. There are exceptions for the old ****ers over 65.

[okie52]

General Eligibility Requirements for Naturalization

The applicant must be age 18 or older at the time of filing for naturalization

The applicant must be an LPR for at least five years before being eligible for naturalization

The applicant must have continuous residence in the United States as an LPR for at least five years immediately preceding the date of filing the application and up to the time of admission to citizenship

The applicant must be physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the five years immediately preceding the date of filing the application

The applicant must have lived within the State or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicant’s place of residence for at least three months prior to the date of filing

The applicant must demonstrate good moral character for five years prior to filing for naturalization, and during the period leading up to the administration of the Oath of Allegiance

The applicant must have an attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution and be well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law

The applicant must be able to read, write, and speak and understand English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government
.

[KantoSooner]

Yeah, this has taken a predictable turn. Either give in to those undermining and violating laws left and right, or you are a racist.

Tiresome brainwashed rhetoric.

C'mon Cleller, you know precisely what I'm talking about. The Republican Party has not made a good faith effort to explain why anyone of color should WANT to join them for a long, long time now. It's been more of a situatioin that such people would be accepted, grudgingly, if they really wanted membership on their own. And then they'd be forced to listen as the rest of their ethnic group was defined as part of the problem, whenever a problem was brought up for debate.

We have done a crappy job of recruiting new members out of any group with the exception of white evangelicals.

Is that due to racism? You tell me, but the shoe sure seems to fit. And, if it does, then a bit more introspection is due than simply rejecting the charge out of hand.

[cleller]

C'mon Cleller, you know precisely what I'm talking about. The Republican Party has not made a good faith effort to explain why anyone of color should WANT to join them for a long, long time now. It's been more of a situatioin that such people would be accepted, grudgingly, if they really wanted membership on their own. And then they'd be forced to listen as the rest of their ethnic group was defined as part of the problem, whenever a problem was brought up for debate.

We have done a crappy job of recruiting new members out of any group with the exception of white evangelicals.

Is that due to racism? You tell me, but the shoe sure seems to fit. And, if it does, then a bit more introspection is due than simply rejecting the charge out of hand.

Who is talking about political parties, and why do we need to incorporate, and/or cater to, race at all with our political parties? Isn't expecting some sort of consideration due to the color of your skin also racism? Does a party push that platform?

Is it racist to suggest that all persons in this country observe laws, regulations, tax codes, etc? Of course not, until you start in with the immigration debate. Then, suggest anything of the sort, and here it comes.

That's the tiresome, brainwashed rhetoric. Its also dishonest and deceitful, but that gets a pass.

[KantoSooner]

No one is suggesting any special consideration. What I am suggesting is that a great portion of the immigration debate and resistance to immigration, immigrants and immigration reform would not exist if the immigrants in question were white protestant Canadians rather than Latino.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We should be moving to adopt Spanish and the peso... Otherwise, we are just a bunch of racists.We could also use more mosques.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No one is suggesting any special consideration. What I am suggesting is that a great portion of the immigration debate and resistance to immigration, immigrants and immigration reform would not exist if the immigrants in question were white protestant Canadians rather than Latino.Coming in illegally is what chaps people. none of the bad reasons for that are a person's race. Unknown terrorists are probably the MOST IMPORTANT of the reasons illegal entry is bad, and needs to be stopped as much as we possibly can.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Who is talking about political parties, and why do we need to incorporate, and/or cater to, race at all with our political parties? Isn't expecting some sort of consideration due to the color of your skin also racism? Does a party push that platform?

Is it racist to suggest that all persons in this country observe laws, regulations, tax codes, etc? Of course not, until you start in with the immigration debate. Then, suggest anything of the sort, and here it comes.

That's the tiresome, brainwashed rhetoric. Its also dishonest and deceitful, but that gets a pass.What part of that do you not understand, Kanto?

[KantoSooner]

What part of my posts didn't you understand?

I actually agree with about 99% of Cleller's post. But he's not actually being responsive to mine. My basic point is that that the immigration reform debate has become code for a debate about the nature of our society in general and in particular the desire of some to try and preserve a WASP America.
My secondary point is that this is a) fruitless, because the ship has already sailed, b) not anything to really be upset about, because many or most of the immigrants are fundamentally ready for the conservative message, unless, c) we fail, utterly to make the proposition to them, because, d) so many current generation Republicans can't see beyond racially tinged goggles.

I have pretty bedrock certainty that the real conservative message, that of Goldwater, for example, will sell like hotcakes. Presuming, of course that a sale is attempted. Do you have less faith in your creed?

[SicEmBaylor]

This bill is national suicide.

[okie52]

No one is suggesting any special consideration. What I am suggesting is that a great portion of the immigration debate and resistance to immigration, immigrants and immigration reform would not exist if the immigrants in question were white protestant Canadians rather than Latino.

That's the only way it makes sense to you...it has to be race. 11,000,000 illegal Canadians wouldn't raise any eyebrows...which would be about 1/3 of the total population of Canada...half the population of Australia. 11,000,000 is more than the total populations of Austria, Hungary, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Bulgaria, Ireland, Croatia, and Switzerland. You might go back and check US history and see how many different groups of people swamped the US in the past, Asian and Euro and see what laws were enacted to prevent it.

Hey but what the hell is 11,000,000 people...hardly anybody at all. Probably won't even be able to notice they are here.

[okie52]

This bill is national suicide.


That it is...stupidity wrapped in a shroud of expediency.

[okie52]

This bill is national suicide.


This guy would agree with you.


Center for Immigration Studies Director: GOP Will Never Win White House Again if Bill Passes
Thursday, 20 Jun 2013 06:32 PM
By Bill Hoffmann

If the proposed bipartisan immigration bill becomes law as it now reads, the Republican Party may never win the White House again, according to Dr. Steven Camarota, Director of Research for the Center for Immigration Studies.

"It's over 40 million new immigrants this bill will admit … [creating] an enormous number of new guest worker programs. Many of these new categories are uncapped, so an unlimited number of people can come in," Camarota told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

"Is this an unremitting electoral disaster for the Republican Party? Absolutely. The amnesty beneficiaries plus the new immigrants — it's hard to see how the Republicans would ever win another presidential election .

"Everything we know about the political opinions of new immigrants, including Hispanics and non-Hispanics, are that they tend to favor the Democratic Party because the Democrats favor expansive government, and immigrants are in favor of that."

Camarota — whose nonpartisan, research group advocates immigration reduction — said a "very large fraction" of Republicans feel they must support the bill, a bipartisan effort of four Republican and four Democratic lawmakers known as the "Gang of Eight."

"[They] want to vote for something so that they can say they did something. Whether the bill has merits or not, they just want to vote for something. And what this is is a fig leaf. It doesn’t really change anything," he said.

"It's just another promise to add more border patrol agents and fencing, but it doesn’t get at all of the underlying problems – the weakness of the interior enforcement, the fact that legalization and amnesty come before any enforcement . . ."

Gaffney said that alarmingly, the 2006 "Secure Fence Act" passed by Congress in 2006 to erect better barriers at U.S. borders and other immigration control measures have been failures.

"Almost none of it has been done. Congress has five times passed an entry-exit system to keep track of temporary visitors when they come and go from the United States. And this bill, of course, would be a sixth time," he said.

"But every time they pass it, it never gets implemented. Congress drags its feet, it doesn’t allocate the funds, the bureaucracy resists, the administration doesn’t want to do it."


.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

scare tactics from the main organization that wants to reduce legal immigration.

Never win another presidential election? It will be 15 years before the very first of the affected would be eligible to vote. So are pubs so lame they can't win at least one of the next four elections with the same electorate? Quit letting Ann Coulter choose the nominee!

If the pubs can win 40% of the Latino vote, 40% of the Asian descent vote, 15% of the black vote, and do a just a few percentage points better with women and the youth vote, they would kick any donk's ***.

[okie52]

Why are the pubs going to do better with the latinos when there is no historical evidence to support it? Taco Wednesdays?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

1) My basic point is that that the immigration reform debate has become code for a debate about the nature of our society in general and in particular the desire of some to try and preserve a WASP America.


My secondary point is that this is a) fruitless, because the ship has already sailed, b) not anything to really be upset about, because many or most of the immigrants are fundamentally ready for the conservative message, unless, c) we fail, utterly to make the proposition to them, because, d) so many current generation Republicans can't see beyond racially tinged goggles.

I have pretty bedrock certainty that the real conservative message, that of Goldwater, for example, will sell like hotcakes. Presuming, of course that a sale is attempted. Do you have less faith in your creed?I disagree on the first point. maybe that's Sicem's desire, but most people i know don't object to any kind of LEGAL immigration from anywhere. That is, the immigrant needs to be able to pass criminal scrutiny, and other requirements, none of which are racially prejudicial, as far as i know and want. Your d) above is more of the same erroneous assessment. For you, and many people, have bought into that idea, which is promoted by the democrats and their pervasive Media.

We agree that conservatism, if properly presented, can and would gain wide acceptance. IMO it is the ONLY thing that can keep the country from going down the *****er

[SicEmBaylor]

I could not possibly care less about the impact that passage or failure of this bill will have on the electoral success (or lack thereof) of the Republican Party.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Why are the pubs going to do better with the latinos when there is no historical evidence to support it? Taco Wednesdays?

Schwartzenegger got 39% of the Latino vote, running against a Latino democrat. I believe Kay Bailey Hutcheson won 44% of the Latino vote. Dubya won 44% in his re-election.

If the pubs want to hire me as a consultant, I could help alleviate their cluelessness on how to appeal more to Latinos. I would start with the fact, the Latino community is highly entrepreneurial. Latinos opened businesses at twice the national rate in the 2000s. The pubs should emphasize the reduction of red tape, regulation, and gov't fees for new business owners.

They should talk about this every day.

Pubs are supposed to be the champion of less regulation. But their libertarian side gets bumped by the cultural conservatives.

[okie52]

W was the only pub to get above 40% in the last 40 years...and he did it once. McCain got a whole 30% after sponsoring amnesty just the year before.

The Latino side is dominated by their love of big government and support for open southern borders.

[cleller]

All this talk about political parties playing up to one side or the other is just insanity. What's next, the Dems going to try to woo taxpayers?

[okie52]

All this talk about political parties playing up to one side or the other is just insanity. What's next, the Dems going to try to woo taxpayers?

You mean that disgusting 53%?

[FaninAma]

What is your personal identity as an American? Just curious to see what's important to you. And how immigrants are taking it away from you.
You're joking, right?

[FaninAma]

Oh probably in a similar fashion to the way they have in the past. But that's to confuse cause and effect. For a long while, Black Americans were reliably Republican. It was only when the Republican Party decided that whoring after white Southern bigots was more important, vote-wise, that Blacks abandoned the Republican Party. You become more like Mid every day.

[FaninAma]

I dunno Okie, it was clear to the 70% or so of the Latinos who voted against the ticket...and the majority of Asians who did so....and the majority of blacks who did so..and so forth and so on. When you lose not one, not two, but every non-white voting bloc and then lose white women, too, well, you're in need of a long look in the mirror. Cause some group of somebodies just aren't feeling the love, know what I mean?

Or can't you understand that 'code'?

Don't be disingenuos, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The Republicans have been the party of old, grumpy white men telling the rest of the country to stfu and obey for as long as I've been aware of parties. And it's got to stop or there simply won't be a GOP very much longer.
Wrong. There will no GOP because they can't out-Democrat the Democrats...meaning they are unwilling to open up the taxpayers' checkbooks to the various special interest groups that are dependent on government freebies. And even though the GOP has abandoned its principles of fiscal conservatism in order to try and keep up with the Democrats they will never be able to compete with the jackasses in terms of buying votes. This country is royally screwed because we have now entered the phase of a democracy where the electorate has discovered they can vote themselves large gifts from the public treasury. It won't stop until the system crashes. Inviting more people in who come here for those gifts doesn't help the situation.

[FaninAma]

I disagree on the first point. maybe that's Sicem's desire, but most people i know don't object to any kind of LEGAL immigration from anywhere. That is, the immigrant needs to be able to pass criminal scrutiny, and other requirements, none of which are racially prejudicial, as far as i know and want. Your d) above is more of the same erroneous assessment. For you, and many people, have bought into that idea, which is promoted by the democrats and their pervasive Media.

We agree that conservatism, if properly presented, can and would gain wide acceptance. IMO it is the ONLY thing that can keep the country from going down the *****er
You are wrong. See my previous post. People want stuff. They want free stuff and they will vote for the party that gives it to them. The 50% of the nation people who vote Democratic in national elections could give a **** about conservatism.

[FaninAma]

scare tactics from the main organization that wants to reduce legal immigration.

Never win another presidential election? It will be 15 years before the very first of the affected would be eligible to vote. So are pubs so lame they can't win at least one of the next four elections with the same electorate? Quit letting Ann Coulter choose the nominee!

If the pubs can win 40% of the Latino vote, 40% of the Asian descent vote, 15% of the black vote, and do a just a few percentage points better with women and the youth vote, they would kick any donk's ***.
The political party that figured out how to get 100% of the vote tallied for their candidate in urban minority districts will figure out how to get votes from the immigrant population.

[FaninAma]

We should be moving to adopt Spanish and the peso... Otherwise, we are just a bunch of racists.
Yes, lets all be more like that jewel of Latin America Brazil.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wrong. There will no GOP because they can't out-Democrat the Democrats...meaning they are unwilling to open up the taxpayers' checkbooks to the various special interest groups that are dependent on government freebies. And even though the GOP has abandoned its principles of fiscal conservatism in order to try and keep up with the Democrats they will never be able to compete with the jackasses in terms of buying votes. This country is royally screwed because we have now entered the phase of a democracy where the electorate has discovered they can vote themselves large gifts from the public treasury. It won't stop until the system crashes. Inviting more people in who come here for those gifts doesn't help the situation.Those in Washington apparently just want to load up (and maybe skedaddle when it starts imploding?)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You are wrong. See my previous post. People want stuff. They want free stuff and they will vote for the party that gives it to them. The 50% of the nation people who vote Democratic in national elections could give a **** about conservatism.It has happened as recently as Reagan. Granted, we haven't seen anyone since him with the charisma and drive to present conservatism effectively since he was around. Reagan could stand up to the Media, and win. The democrats and Media are more organized now than they were, however, and it seems nobody really wants the challenge, nor wants to risk personal destruction..

When the new Amnesty hits, with nobody really knows how many new democrat voters, our country will be permanently changed, for all practical purposes.

[FaninAma]

Rush, this country is 25 years removed from Reagan. Our society has slid much further down that slope of growing societal dependency on government handouts. I suspect while Reagan was President less than 25% of the population received significant benefits from the government. Now it is approaching or exceeding 50%. Reagan could not get elected today. He would be viewed as a reactionary and painted as a cold hearted white man bent on taking benefits away. We have reached the point of no return.

[KantoSooner]

Yes, lets all be more like that jewel of Latin America Brazil.

You do realize that Brazil speaks Portugese and that their currency is not the peso, right?

[KantoSooner]

W was the only pub to get above 40% in the last 40 years...and he did it once. McCain got a whole 30% after sponsoring amnesty just the year before.

The Latino side is dominated by their love of big government and support for open southern borders.

An alternative interpretation is that Reps who actually spoke to the latino community got appreciably better support than those who tried to pretend they didn't exist or weren't legit. It's an old negotiation ploy, but most of the time just listening and acting like you care what the other person is saying has a great impact on how positively they view you.

[KantoSooner]

You're joking, right?

couldn't possibly be more serious. Sometimes it pays to get to fundamentals.

We're living with 11 milllion illegals in this country today. I don't feel one bit less American for that fact. I imagine that I won't feel less or more American if we fine and put some on a path to citizenship, or issue them greencards and let them live here as legals but not give them a pathway or boot them out. I don't see that it has much impact on my American-ness one way or the other. So I'm curious as to how these folks are taking your national identity away from you.

[okie52]

You evidently weren't paying attention. McCain cosponsored amnesty in 2007 and received 30% of the Hispanic vote in 2008. Daddy bush was vp when Reagan granted amnesty in 1986 and daddy bush received 30% of the hispanic vote 1988.

You would think pushing amnesty would be enough groveling but maybe your alternative interpretation can explain that.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You evidently weren't paying attention. McCain cosponsored amnesty in 2007 and received 30% of the Hispanic vote in 2008. Daddy bush was vp when Reagan granted amnesty in 1986 and daddy bush received 30% of the hispanic vote 1988.

You would think pushing amnesty would be enough groveling but maybe your alternative interpretation can explain that.He's making an assumption of a possibility that the newly legalized illegals won't be voting, or can be won over with persuasion(by some amazingly effective statesmen who will not be destroyed by the democrat Media machine)

[SanJoaquinSooner]

He's making an assumption of a possibility that the newly legalized illegals won't be voting, or can be won over with persuasion(by some amazingly effective statesmen who will not be destroyed by the democrat Media machine)

They wouldn't be voting for at least 15 years. Only 40% of those who got green cards under Reagan's Immigration bill ever became citizens....and what percent of citizens actually vote - maybe 60%?? So maybe 60% of 40% of 2 million = about 1/2 million. and dubya got 40% of them?

Please don't let Okie sell his exaggerated bill of goods that they'll be 11 million new Donks next year.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

They wouldn't be voting for at least 15 years. Only 40% of those who got green cards under Reagan's Immigration bill ever became citizens....and what percent of citizens actually vote - maybe 60%?? So maybe 60% of 40% of 2 million = about 1/2 million. and dubya got 40% of them?

Please don't let Okie sell his exaggerated bill of goods that they'll be 11 million new Donks next year.Just how many illegals do you think there REALLY are? Estimates years ago were up to 20 million. I would expect there are actually at least that many. Besides, these people have entered the country ILLEGALLY. yes, they are ILLEGAL. What a crock that we are even entertaining legalizing them, and NOT building the fence first, that has been law to build for many years, now, and congress never builds it. What a disgraceful, silly-as*ed crock!

[SanJoaquinSooner]

The 20 million figure was always a lie. The "researchers" took a baseline estimated number, paired with the amount of money sent to other countries. Then they look at the increase in money sent and extrapolated for a new estimate of illegal aliens. Total bull****.

Even the researchers who did it admit it was way off.

[okie52]

juan, how about that family reunification for legal residents and citizens....11,000,000 X spouse, parents and children...how many does that equate to you?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

juan, how about that family reunification for legal residents and citizens....11,000,000 X spouse, parents and children...how many does that equate to you?


Well, it's a more complicated formula than 11 mil x spouse, parents and children.

1. Of the 11 million, only about 6 million are expected to qualify. Of those who qualify, many don't have a spouse, or kids or parents who want to come to the U.S. Of those who do have a spouse and/or kids and/or parents, many of them are already here. Lots of them are here. That was the result of tight borders ending circular migration. The CBO estimate of family based immigration as a result of the senate bill is 1.7 million over a 20-year period.

2. Actually, the largest increase would be from clearing the backlog of those who filed petitions over the last 20 years. Anti-reformers love to tout "getting in line and doing it the right way" ... well that will add about 7 million over the next 20 years.

3. Other increases will be due, not to adjusting status of illegal aliens, but changing the rule for employment based visas. These changes will add another 6 or 7 million over a 20 year period. These include more high-skilled workers and more non-immigrant guest workers.

4. There will be decreases in the diversity lottery visas (phased out) and decreases in siblings and adult children of citizens family based petitions.

5. No one expects a final bill to look just like the current Senate bill - if a final bill is actually passed.

6. If pubs were smart, they'd negotiate things that shrink the welfare state. For example, before Reagan's amnesty, elderly parents of Citizens immediately qualified for supplemental security income (SSI) which is welfare. So, when mom and pop were brought over from Italy or Poland or Greece , it was an instant $600/month welfare check for each. The 1986 bill ended that.

[okie52]

The CBO continues to show what a worthless analytical group they are. Over half of all legal immigrations that occur now are through family reunification. Last year we had 1.2 million immigrants receive citizenship and hispanics were by far the largest segment...and those were overwhelmingly family reunifications

[SicEmBaylor]

If there were a better place to emigrate to, I think I would. This country has turned into a dumpster fire.

[okie52]

Yep, if I could get out before the 3rd world sets in I'd do it.

I really am beginning to wish for secession....highly unlikely but I can dream.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yep, if I could get out before the 3rd world sets in I'd do it.

I really am beginning to wish for secession....highly unlikely but I can dream.
The only problem with secession in this case is that it there is plenty of support for much of this **** from our segment of the country that ought to be seceding. Texas is a good example. Texas politicians have always been a bit soft on immigration issues. No, secession would be difficult in this case. Revolution* would be better.

*Aunt Janet, please do not mistake my theoretical suggestion as an attempt on my part to put into practical practice my aforementioned theoretical suggestion. Plzkthx.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Move to Canada. No one wants to move to Canada.

[SicEmBaylor]

Move to Canada. No one wants to move to Canada.

For good reason, and it isn't any better. Plus, I don't do well with cold weather.

[okie52]

The only problem with secession in this case is that it there is plenty of support for much of this **** from our segment of the country that ought to be seceding. Texas is a good example. Texas politicians have always been a bit soft on immigration issues. No, secession would be difficult in this case. Revolution* would be better.

*Aunt Janet, please do not mistake my theoretical suggestion as an attempt on my part to put into practical practice my aforementioned theoretical suggestion. Plzkthx.

Revolution would mean including new England and Cali in a new country...something I would not want.

I like the old south with TX and OK attached. There are some Benedict Arnold's like graham and wicker, but for the most part they agree on issues. Tennessee with corker and Alexander would be on probation...with a very short leash.

[okie52]

Move to Canada. No one wants to move to Canada.

****, theyre more ****ed up than we are...and they have millions of French Canadians.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

The CBO continues to show what a worthless analytical group they are. Over half of all legal immigrations that occur now are through family reunification. Last year we had 1.2 million immigrants receive citizenship and hispanics were by far the largest segment...and those were overwhelmingly family reunifications

1. Going forward, family reunification would be de-emphasized under the senate bill. CBO is accounting for the backlog of 7 million.

2. The citizenship number spiked recently because the cost of application was raised, causing a rush to apply to beat the cost increase.

3. You are confusing green cards (permanent residency) and citizenship. Citizenship is not based on family reunification or employment.

[okie52]

Legal residency gives them the right for family reunification. They certainly have the right to reunify with their families and their offspring born in the US are automatic citizens.

The rest of the family citizenships would be accelerated under the new "massive citizenship" immigration process...you know...so we can grant 5,000,000 a year instead of 1,000,000 a year.