The Face of The Republican Party: King, McCain, Graham

[FaninAma]

The GOP has a chance to separate themselves from the Democrats on the issue of civil
liberties but instead these old dinosuars are running around on national television supporting the
massive NSA/government spying on every citizenin this country.


And the claim that this program stopped a terroristattack in 2009 is a blatant lie. That plot wasuncovered
by British intelligence.


This old guard of the Republican party needs to shut up and go away. Thay are as dangerous as
Obama in regards to destroyingcivil liberties.

[C&CDean]

Is it wrong that the only name I recognize is McCain?

[KantoSooner]

Fanin, Since direct democracy was proven not to work in ancient Greece, most sane people have opted for representative democracy as the best workable governmental option; and more particularly, representative democracy in the context of a government of limited powers.

In this present case, the representatives of the people were informed of what was going on, apparently in advance, and approved of it. Further, it was reviewed and likewise approved on a legal/constitutional basis by a court consisting of 11 judges. This procedure has been repeated every 3 months for the past 7-8 years. In other words, a large-ish number of elected and appointed officers of the people have repeatedly approved of this surveillance.

You can legitimately argue that said surveillance might be an overreach, that it might be ineffective or that it might be misguided. But you really can't argue that simply recording phone numbers and duration of calls and submitting same to pattern recognition software analysis is in any way an infringement of our civil liberties. It's a non issue.

[FaninAma]

Kanto, nobody is advocating direct democracy...neither did the Founding Fathers. But there is a distinction between electing people to represent you in a Republican style of government who are adherent to a set of rules and principles and allowing a permanent ruling class to govern without oversight or accountability because a large part of the electorate is disengaged and dumbed down. The NSA program is a direct violation of the 4th Amendment. There is no court oversight or guarantee of right to privacy. And it is surprising so many have apparently offered up their civil liberties in return for perceived security.

[FaninAma]

BTW, the leaker has said the NSA program goes much further than the actions you described. I for one believe him. Apparently 9-11 is turning out to be this country's Kristallnacht.

[KantoSooner]

Kanto, nobody is advocating direct democracy...neither did the Founding Fathers. But there is a distinction between electing people to represent you in a Republican style of government who are adherent to a set of rules and principles and allowing a permanent ruling class to govern without oversight or accountability because a large part of the electorate is disengaged and dumbed down. The NSA program is a direct violation of the 4th Amendment. There is no court oversight or guarantee of right to privacy. And it is surprising so many have apparently offered up their civil liberties in return for perceived security.

Chill. The surveillance was approved by elected representatives. We elected these people to make these decisions for us. We can unelecf them. We unelect some every time we hold elections.
Secondly, this program most certainly WAS reviewed by a court. A court consisting of eleven separate judges.
Our representatives and the judges felt that this was reasonable and did not infringe on any of our rights.

So, to recap so far: either our elected representatives and a body of senior jurists are all stupid and/or corrupt....or there was a reasonable basis for instituting this program.

And guess what? They review it every three months.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Is it wrong that the only name I recognize is McCain?
You just hurt sic em's feelers. He has a pic w/ hero king

[okie52]

Don't know much about king but graham and mccain could take a hike

[KantoSooner]

BTW, the leaker has said the NSA program goes much further than the actions you described. I for one believe him. Apparently 9-11 is turning out to be this country's Kristallnacht.

I would be stunned if it didn't go further. Diane Feinstein as much as said so on one of the Sunday talkies. She also outllined the legal procedure that any government organ would need to go through to use the information in those ways. Once again: legal processes. Either those judges are evil or there is disagreement over the horrible-ness of this program. Me, I'd be inclined to trust the opinion of a roomful of judges on matters constitutional.

And, really? Kristallnacht? So now having the numbers you call or that call you entered into a pattern analysis program along with 300-400 million other people is equivalent to being boxed up and sent to gas chambers? Try to keep these things in perspective, proportion whatever. This program is a giant nothing. And it is being overseen by our elected reps.

[rock on sooner]

Don't know much about king but graham and mccain could take a hike

Which King?

[okie52]

I am assuming it is peter king.

[FaninAma]

Chill. The surveillance was approved by elected representatives. We elected these people to make these decisions for us. We can unelecf them. We unelect some every time we hold elections.
Secondly, this program most certainly WAS reviewed by a court. A court consisting of eleven separate judges.
Our representatives and the judges felt that this was reasonable and did not infringe on any of our rights.

So, to recap so far: either our elected representatives and a body of senior jurists are all stupid and/or corrupt....or there was a reasonable basis for instituting this program.

And guess what? They review it every three months.
Glad you exhibit the confidence that a few elected officials can oversee a monstrous federal beaurocracy. Agencies like the IRS would never ever abuse their power because they know our watchdogs in Congress have their eye on every action they are taking. BTW, doesn't this argument sort of counter your earlier argument in another thread that the government's growth makes more intrusion into our lives inevitable because it's too big to oversee the various agencies? Blind trust in governments where the real basis of serving is to gain and retain power has always worked out well for people throughout history....don't you think?

[rock on sooner]

I am assuming it is peter king.

Me too, but there is another Pub King...Steve King from IA

[diverdog]

Fanin, Since direct democracy was proven not to work in ancient Greece, most sane people have opted for representative democracy as the best workable governmental option; and more particularly, representative democracy in the context of a government of limited powers.

In this present case, the representatives of the people were informed of what was going on, apparently in advance, and approved of it. Further, it was reviewed and likewise approved on a legal/constitutional basis by a court consisting of 11 judges. This procedure has been repeated every 3 months for the past 7-8 years. In other words, a large-ish number of elected and appointed officers of the people have repeatedly approved of this surveillance.

You can legitimately argue that said surveillance might be an overreach, that it might be ineffective or that it might be misguided. But you really can't argue that simply recording phone numbers and duration of calls and submitting same to pattern recognition software analysis is in any way an infringement of our civil liberties. It's a non issue.

I totally agree with you. Private corporations are far more intrusive. The amount of data that is collected on a person who shops is obscene. Using a cell phone is a huge source of data collection when the locator is turned on.

[KantoSooner]

Glad you exhibit the confidence that a few elected officials can oversee a monstrous federal beaurocracy. Agencies like the IRS would never ever abuse their power because they know our watchdogs in Congress have their eye on every action they are taking. BTW, doesn't this argument sort of counter your earlier argument in another thread that the government's growth makes more intrusion into our lives inevitable because it's too big to oversee the various agencies? Blind trust in governments where the real basis of serving is to gain and retain power has always worked out well for people throughout history....don't you think?

Ah, I see, we're still whipping the dead horse of 'our-elected-officials-are-all-part-of-a-secret-cabal-and-cant'-be-trusted' dealio. Grow up. Life consists of shades of gray and we elect representatives to exercise judgement. The IRS was doing things, wait for it, illegally. They were breaking the law. Presuming that the NSA was doing what had been approved, they were not. A niggling difference, I know, but important to me, at least.

I am supremely comfy with the idea that, in order to detect and identify terrorist/spy communications, some computer has probably realized that I speak with my GF almost every night and that my kiddo is spending the summer with mom. I am also comfy with the oversight of government exercised by our elected representatives. It's not perfect, but perfect would be unacheivable. And insisting on perfect in almost any sphere of human endeavor is childish.

[FaninAma]

I never said there was a secret cabal among our elected officials. I said that the elected officials have a strong desire to remain in power so they will rubberstamp the programs and actions of those who have a vested interest in monitoring every citizen in the country. Our government would never use the IRS to suppress dissent and abuse private financial information or use the justice department to intimidate journalists doing their job. Nah, never in a million years.

[FaninAma]

BTW, just wait until the IRS starts sifting through you health and medical records under the ACA.

[FaninAma]

Is it wrong that the only name I recognize is McCain? No because I think they are actually the same guy with different accents.

[FaninAma]

I totally agree with you. Private corporations are far more intrusive. The amount of data that is collected on a person who shops is obscene. Using a cell phone is a huge source of data collection when the locator is turned on.So corporations have the authority to put you in prison, threaten your livelihood, seize your home and property? Never knew that...good to know. BTW, J. Edgar Hoover is an example of a public service official who never abused the information he gathered...right? And how many Congressmen, Presidents and other elected leaders took a stand against him?

[jkjsooner]

The GOP has a chance to separate themselves from the Democrats on the issue of civil
liberties but instead these old dinosuars are running around on national television supporting the
massive NSA/government spying on every citizenin this country.

Your initial premise that the GOP is the party of civil liberties is where you went astray.

[FaninAma]

Your initial premise that the GOP is the party of civil liberties is where you went astray.Actually I never thought that. I proposed that the party had a chance to swing toward the libertarian faction of the party which would have broadened its appeal...especially with younger voters. So far they have failed miserably.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Only way to improve government is to get good(conservative) people elected in the republican primaries, and then in the general election. The democrats are truly authoritarian socialists, almost to a person. Third (perceived conservative)party voting brings mathematics into play, splitting the conservative vote, and always giving the election to the socialist party. Sitting out an election accomplishes the same thing as voting 3rd(perceived conservative) party. Mathematics is uncompromising.

Yes, it is no more complicated than that.

[FaninAma]

Rush, I think it is more damaging to vote for big government Republicans who talk about down-sizing the government then watch in frustration as they break their promises than to sit out the election of vote for a 3rd party. In the former scenario a lot of people become cynical and drop out of the process. In the later at least they continue to stay involved and hopefully there will be enough like minded people to launch another political party.

[KantoSooner]

So corporations have the authority to put you in prison, threaten your livelihood, seize your home and property? Never knew that...good to know. BTW, J. Edgar Hoover is an example of a public service official who never abused the information he gathered...right? And how many Congressmen, Presidents and other elected leaders took a stand against him?

How many decades did J Edgar have in office? And precisely when did the totalitarian state he founded lose power? Oh, that's right, he never did seize power. But we're just the same as Nazi Germany nonetheless.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Rush, I think it is more damaging to vote for big government Republicans who talk about down-sizing the government then watch in frustration as they break their promises than to sit out the election of vote for a 3rd party. In the former scenario a lot of people become cynical and drop out of the process. In the later at least they continue to stay involved and hopefully there will be enough like minded people to launch another political party.I respectfully disagree. I know you and others, such as Sicem mean well, and I would join you except for the nasty little reality of simple mathematics. We HAVE TO bolster the republicans, since the democrats are truly hopeless. Heck, they view republicans and any conservatives as their enemies, and therefore enemies of America, sad to say.

Put your efforts into getting more real conservative republicans elected in the primaries and generals. It's the ONLY way we will get rid of the socialists, at least peacefully, and prolly in my, and your lifetimes.

[KantoSooner]

I never said there was a secret cabal among our elected officials. I said that the elected officials have a strong desire to remain in power so they will rubberstamp the programs and actions of those who have a vested interest in monitoring every citizen in the country. Our government would never use the IRS to suppress dissent and abuse private financial information or use the justice department to intimidate journalists doing their job. Nah, never in a million years.

I think we're getting closer to what you're trying to say now. Okay, the elected officials are just corrupt, not evil. They are, however 'rubberstamping' the 'programs and actions of those who have a vested interest in monitoring every citizen in the country'? Who the hell are those people and what power do they have to help a power corrupted pol stay in office? And what's their agenda? I mean, watching reams of phone numbers would have to rank right up with whatever the incumbent most boring thing on earth is, right? They want to do it for why?

Before we befuddle ourselves further, allow me to drop the rhetorical question mode. There is no 'they' in this case. There is no group of people to whom our elected officials kowtow and obey. 'They' in this case do not exist. There is too much turnover and backbiting in our government for any group of people to hold onto control.

If you want to see the folks in control, look at the president and congress. That's about it. Imperfect. Obviously not aware of each and every action that all government employees conduct each day. But, over all, in control. And, yes, you get from time to time misuses of power like the current IRS embroglio which will turn out, I believe, to have been a little 'special op' dreamed up by and set in motion by either Rahm Emanual or a like senior political advisor type. These tend to get found out, sooner or later, because people have trouble keeping secrets.

It is massively naive to expect any state to exist without a secretive security apparatus. It has been a tool of statecraft for well over 5,000 years. Ben Franklin ran spies. George Washington did as welll....and authorized assassinations of British spies and officers. They both had a humorously avid appetite for reading other people's mail. And yet our fine republic stands today as it has for quite a while now, the world's bastion for civil liberties.

I don't reckon my calling list is worth declaring the republic dead and buried.

[FaninAma]

How many decades did J Edgar have in office? And precisely when did the totalitarian state he founded lose power? Oh, that's right, he never did seize power. But we're just the same as Nazi Germany nonetheless.J. Edgar Hoover created an environment that was in effect an usurping of power rightly granted to elected officials in so much as he was able, through the use of unlawful surveillance and date gathering on targets, to coerce several of these "upstanding" elected officials to take( or allow him to take) unconstitutional actions against individuals he disagreed with or wanted to put away. I wonder how many innocent individuals were imprisoned or silenced during J. Edgar's reign of terror. But according to you everything he did is fine and dandy because it was done in the name of public safety. The ends justifies the means....right?

[Sooner Eclipse]

I respectfully disagree. I know you and others, such as Sicem mean well, and I would join you except for the nasty little reality of simple mathematics. We HAVE TO bolster the republicans, since the democrats are truly hopeless. Heck, they view republicans and any conservatives as their enemies, and therefore enemies of America, sad to say.

Put your efforts into getting more real conservative republicans elected in the primaries and generals. It's the ONLY way we will get rid of the socialists, at least peacefully, and prolly in my, and your lifetimes.

I disagree with you once you have an issue as monumental as this one. I believe you can lure the libertarian leaning dims if you put forward some principled, libertarian leaning conservatives in the primaries. That would solve your math problems. This issue seems to be dividing along libertarian vs statist lines, rather than D vs R.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I disagree with you once you have an issue as monumental as this one. I believe you can lure the libertarian leaning dims if you put forward some principled, libertarian leaning conservatives in the primaries. That would solve your math problems. This issue seems to be dividing along libertarian vs statist lines, rather than D vs R.Seems to me the agreement between the Libs and the Libertarians is with their unwillingness to have hardly any(if any) overseas military presence, for just about any reason, and their desire to have most if not all substances legal.

Where Libertarians and republican conservatives agree is government being restricted to the laws of the country, separation of powers, and states' rights.

I believe it is naive to assume there are many democrats who would vote economic conservatism nowadays. So, it would be nearly impossible to see an economic conservative win, or even campaign for the democrat nomination.

But the only hope for the country is if someone does win who is dedicated to economic conservatism. He or she will have to be a fearless advocate for conservatism, such as Reagan was, and be able to rise above the Media, who will do everything in their power to destroy him(or her), one way or another.

[diverdog]

Seems to me the agreement between the Libs and the Libertarians is with their unwillingness to have hardly any(if any) overseas military presence, for just about any reason, and their desire to have most if not all substances legal.

Where Libertarians and republican conservatives agree is government being restricted to the laws of the country, separation of powers, and states' rights.

I believe it is naive to assume there are many democrats who would vote economic conservatism nowadays. So, it would be nearly impossible to see an economic conservative win, or even campaign for the democrat nomination.

But the only hope for the country is if someone does win who is dedicated to economic conservatism. He or she will have to be a fearless advocate for conservatism, such as Reagan was, and be able to rise above the Media, who will do everything in their power to destroy him(or her), one way or another.

Refresh my memory...when did any Republican reduce the size and scope of the government?

Secondly name one....just one country where your idea of conservative utopia exists or works?

[KantoSooner]

J. Edgar Hoover created an environment that was in effect an usurping of power rightly granted to elected officials in so much as he was able, through the use of unlawful surveillance and date gathering on targets, to coerce several of these "upstanding" elected officials to take( or allow him to take) unconstitutional actions against individuals he disagreed with or wanted to put away. I wonder how many innocent individuals were imprisoned or silenced during J. Edgar's reign of terror. But according to you everything he did is fine and dandy because it was done in the name of public safety. The ends justifies the means....right?

You miss my point which was that, if J Edgar wasn't able to effect an overthrow of the government then its unlikely that we are in terrible danger now.

[East Coast Bias]

I disagree with you once you have an issue as monumental as this one. I believe you can lure the libertarian leaning dims if you put forward some principled, libertarian leaning conservatives in the primaries. That would solve your math problems. This issue seems to be dividing along libertarian vs statist lines, rather than D vs R.

The real math problem for the Pubs lies in making peace with the Hispanics and women. The numbers are working against them and not getting any better. They need to find something that appeals to these groups . Based on the numbers I doubt we seen any pubs elected President anytime soon.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The real math problem for the Pubs lies in making peace with the Hispanics and women. The numbers are working against them and not getting any better. They need to find something that appeals to these groups . Based on the numbers I doubt we seen any pubs elected President anytime soon.the dems marxist philosophy and demonification of republicans and conservatives have gotten a foothold in today's America, while it lasts.

[IGotNoTiming]

the dems marxist philosophy and demonification of republicans and conservatives have gotten a foothold in today's America, while it lasts.


They are coming from both coasts man- gonna strangle the midwest in a satan worshipping orgy of illegal drugs and social handouts wrapped in a shroud liberal ideology that will brainwash our children into speaking spanish, and embracing back ground checks for AR 15s.....


Run for the hills....

[OU68]

They are coming from both coasts man- gonna strangle the midwest in a satan worshipping orgy of illegal drugs and social handouts wrapped in a shroud liberal ideology that will brainwash our children into speaking spanish, and embracing back ground checks for AR 15s.....


Run for the hills....

Said the frog as the temperature rose in the pot...

[okie52]

Refresh my memory...when did any Republican reduce the size and scope of the government?

Secondly name one....just one country where your idea of conservative utopia exists or works?

If you can find any country that is a utopia please let me know.

[IGotNoTiming]

Said the frog as the temperature rose in the pot...


I am neither Conservative or Liberal, I am just an a** hole... I am completely independent. I don't take any political opinions on a board like this too seriously because I have had great political discussions with people on both sides of the aisle and it never turns as vitriolic as message boards do- that is just part of the culture of message boards. I think if the two polarized sides could ever come together it would help out the country as a whole... but like our congress they are so entrenched on digging at the other side that nothing ever gets done.

[rock on sooner]

The real math problem for the Pubs lies in making peace with the Hispanics and women. The numbers are working against them and not getting any better. They need to find something that appeals to these groups . Based on the numbers I doubt we seen any pubs elected President anytime soon.

Big winner here! The current Pubs are working extremely hard to find
every way possible to torpedo immigrant reform....a long list of amend-
ments are forthcoming to do that...no path to citizenship, wants a 100%
guarantee of border security...studies show that would take tripling the
number of boots on the southern border plus 24 hour aerial surveillance
(costs $3000 an hour to run one drone...that cost $2 mil each to build)
and this from the side of gov't that doesn't want to spend any money.

Doesn't appear that anything will happen with immigrant reform and,
for the Pubs, that means very little Latino help at election time, and
as a reminder, the Latinos are the fastest growing "minority" in the
good ol US of A.

[IGotNoTiming]

"Doesn't appear that anything will happen with immigrant reform and,
for the Pubs, that means very little Latino help at election time, and
as a reminder, the Latinos are the fastest growing "minority" in the
good ol US of A."

Thy are the majority in Texas. Not sure about California, Arizona, or New Mexico... but my guess would be there as well.

[OU68]

Big winner here! , and
as a reminder, the old white guys are fast becoming the "minority" in the
good ol US of A.

FIFY

[KantoSooner]

Old white males already are a minority.

[okie52]

"Doesn't appear that anything will happen with immigrant reform and,
for the Pubs, that means very little Latino help at election time, and
as a reminder, the Latinos are the fastest growing "minority" in the
good ol US of A."

Thy are the majority in Texas. Not sure about California, Arizona, or New Mexico... but my guess would be there as well.

Latinos are about to be the majority in California...not in TX.

[okie52]

Big winner here! The current Pubs are working extremely hard to find
every way possible to torpedo immigrant reform....a long list of amend-
ments are forthcoming to do that...no path to citizenship, wants a 100%
guarantee of border security...studies show that would take tripling the
number of boots on the southern border plus 24 hour aerial surveillance
(costs $3000 an hour to run one drone...that cost $2 mil each to build)
and this from the side of gov't that doesn't want to spend any money.

Doesn't appear that anything will happen with immigrant reform and,
for the Pubs, that means very little Latino help at election time, and
as a reminder, the Latinos are the fastest growing "minority" in the
good ol US of A.

If the pubs passed immigration reform there would be little help at the polls as Latinos have averaged supporting dems by over 2-1 for the last 30 years...even after Reagan gave them amnesty in 2007 the latinos showed their appreciation by supporting Dukakis over daddy Bush by a 70-30% margin. Pubs supporting amnesty are the real fools in the equation.

[okie52]

The real math problem for the Pubs lies in making peace with the Hispanics and women. The numbers are working against them and not getting any better. They need to find something that appeals to these groups . Based on the numbers I doubt we seen any pubs elected President anytime soon.

Women...as in war on women? heh heh.

Pubs may not have a president for a while. Hopefully if that is the case it won't have the added stupidity of amnesty to dig their hole even deeper.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If the pubs passed immigration reform there would be little help at the polls as Latinos have averaged supporting dems by over 2-1 for the last 30 years...even after Reagan gave them amnesty in 2007 the latinos showed their appreciation by supporting Dukakis over daddy Bush by a 70-30% margin. Pubs supporting amnesty are the real fools in the equation.We will probably maintain a semblance of a civil society for another 17 months

[okie52]

We will probably maintain a semblance of a civil society for another 17 months

Mexico is an outstanding country...can't wait for the US to get the Mexican makeover. Juarez USA will soon be on the horizon.

[KantoSooner]

We will probably maintain a semblance of a civil society for another 17 months

I'll bite! Okay, we have a semblance of a civil society for another 17 months. I'm guessing that's tied to the mid-term elections. Am I right?

Then what? Open revolt? Maybe like that teevee show where all the electricity goes off? How soon before the Hunger Games start? When do the apes take over, and will the Statue of Liberty really wash up on a beach? Maybe we devolve into hunter/gatherers and roam Nebraska killing and eating relict herds of cattle? Will Obama fly around on his steam-punk levitating Imperial flag ship laughing at the chaos he's wrought?

I'm kind of curious.

Kind of.

[rock on sooner]

If the pubs passed immigration reform there would be little help at the polls as Latinos have averaged supporting dems by over 2-1 for the last 30 years...even after Reagan gave them amnesty in 2007 the latinos showed their appreciation by supporting Dukakis over daddy Bush by a 70-30% margin. Pubs supporting amnesty are the real fools in the equation.

W got pretty strong Latino support...38-40%, I think, but probably
because he spoke Spanish...

[okie52]

W got pretty strong Latino support...38-40%, I think, but probably
because he spoke Spanish...

W actually got 44% in the 2004 election against Kerry. McCain only got 30% in 2008 and he was cosponsor of the amnesty legislation in 2007.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Mexico is an outstanding country...can't wait for the US to get the Mexican makeover. Juarez USA will soon be on the horizon.Our new citizens may have some reluctance to accept Islam as part of America's heritage. If it's not one thing, it's another.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'll bite! Okay, we have a semblance of a civil society for another 17 months. I'm guessing that's tied to the mid-term elections. Am I right?

Then what? Open revolt? Maybe like that teevee show where all the electricity goes off? How soon before the Hunger Games start? When do the apes take over, and will the Statue of Liberty really wash up on a beach? Maybe we devolve into hunter/gatherers and roam Nebraska killing and eating relict herds of cattle? Will Obama fly around on his steam-punk levitating Imperial flag ship laughing at the chaos he's wrought?

I'm kind of curious.

Kind of.IGNT advising you now?

[KantoSooner]

Nope, I'm just excited by what you imply is going to be a big time coming up in just under a year and a half. I'm trying to figure out whether you mean we'll be going from a semblance of civility to full on civility or will descend into an medieval abyss of pitchforks and torches.

And it's important to know which when selecting one's wardrobe.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Nope, I'm just excited by what you imply is going to be a big time coming up in just under a year and a half. I'm trying to figure out whether you mean we'll be going from a semblance of civility to full on civility or will descend into an medieval abyss of pitchforks and torches.

And it's important to know which when selecting one's wardrobe. turn in your weapons for meltdown, and donate to the d of your choice, or just the DNC .

[IGotNoTiming]

Latinos are about to be the majority in California...not in TX.
You are correct. I just saw a figure showing 37.8% Hispanic, 45% Caucasian.

[OU68]

Old white males already are a minority.

Will the Dims embrace us now?

[rock on sooner]

Will the Dims embrace us now?

I'm 67, soon to be 68, and will embrace most anybody,
so long as she........(fill in the blank) :biggrin:

[KantoSooner]

turn in your weapons for meltdown, and donate to the d of your choice, or just the DNC .

How about instead I keep my guns and menace the armadillo and bunny populations as I have long done (2013 bunny count is now at 14 and counting. My lettuce sleeps, safe and secure.) And I'll continue to vote for whoever seems likely to have as little negative impact on my life as possible. As for donating money to politicians, surely you jest. I don't even give them a kind word, it just encourages them.

[diverdog]

Our new citizens may have some reluctance to accept Islam as part of America's heritage. If it's not one thing, it's another.


IGNT advising you now?

WTF does IGNT mean?

[KantoSooner]

I just figgered it was time for the nice nurse to come back by with the meds, again.